I am literally a gambling legend, ask me anything.

What I’m doing is a gift to this dead site, but they’ll probably lock the thread since they don’t want traffic or interest.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58381481#post58381481)

I am near universally liked and respected by people who matter in the LA gambling scene (not anonymous online troll bitch ass nobody's). I would instantly have partnerships in all sorts of legal, semi legal and "undecriminalized" gambling ventures, I have hundreds and hundreds of phone numbers of gamblers all over LA. Id have access to money and playing/hosting a public game, a... See full post

Now, please assume you have zero connections, and have to take up a new career - how would you get rich in 18 months?

this thread seemed fun for a few hundred posts but devolved into questions of "if you were dead broke and had to run up a bankroll in X months, what would you do?" + limon assuming an unstable god complex while feeding the trolls. no objection to shutting it down, good times seemed to have run their course. back to the 2000s nostalgia thread.

but what will limon resort to when he has nothing to do but to bask in his perceived glory of this thread? he is certain his **** doesn't stink, so it's not like sticking fingers up his butt and smelling it will give him the satisfaction he so direly requires. it's a sad state of affairs, really.

Leave limon alone...

Close it. He an old, sad, phony loser, and a boring one-trick pony.

I'd say limon is complex, some brilliance and some definitely not.

by redbuck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58398820#post58398820)

Close it. He an old, sad, phony loser, and a boring one-trick pony.

You mean, gasp, he is a "Pokah Playa, a Pokah Playa ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA_ZbiwS... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA_ZbiwS83c)

To be clear, I've got no personal beef with limon and while I may not be drawn to his posting style, I get that others are enjoying this thread. I don't even care if he wants to have some rant about me in my mom's basement or whatever else when he returns. From my perspective the only issue was his trolling a thread that a lot of forum readers consider to be quite serious, and then completely unloading on volunteer forum moderators for daring to give him a one day ban for doing so. Nothing's stopping him from continuing with this thread as before. Edit to add: Forgot something - this thread is his AMA, so we all know what it's going to look like. Maybe you don't enjoy it, but if that's the case, just move on. I'm not an NVG mod and so am not creating some kind of rule that you can't say anything mean to limon, but I'm sure it gets kind of boring for those who enjoy the thread to have to scroll past back-and-forths that are nothing more than insult swapping. Maybe this can be a kinder thread in 2024? 😀

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58400292#post58400292)

Maybe this can be a kinder thread in 2024? 😀

Didn't even make it one post

In fairness, I added that after he posted.

Yeah ... it's a bluff. It's a bluff totally unaware of the dead giveaways of such bluffs. As posted, it can only be a "legend in their own mind" type of phenomenon."

How have you avoided being followed home, robbed, beaten, shanked, or worse, being a known professional with tons of money?

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58395884#post58395884)

This is...quite something. In this thread limon's been given far, far, far more leeway than I've seen anyone given in this forum, probably ever. For some reason he decided to troll the living daylights out of one of the more serious threads in this forum in some time, resulting in countless complaints from posters .

I AGREE!! I should be more serious when in other threads. note taken.

by marknfw m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58396190#post58396190)

We don't even have basements in Texas ya jabroni.

attic dweller doesnt roll off the tongue.

by smartDFS m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58397255#post58397255)

this thread seemed fun for a few hundred posts but devolved into questions of "if you were dead broke and had to run up a bankroll in X months, what would you do?" + limon assuming an unstable god complex while feeding the trolls. no objection to shutting it down, good times seemed to have run their course. back to the 2000s nostalgia thread.

if you want better questions, ask better questions, be the change you want to see. limon is the world intergender wrestling champion.

by Gzesh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58396423#post58396423)

Bobo, I would think this thread has run its course re any poker forum value ... and I say that as a regular viewer for a pretty long time. Time to close thread, infavor of a Limon return, perhaps, to poker-related content ?

by redbuck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58398820#post58398820)

Close it. He an old, sad, phony loser, and a boring one-trick pony.

Im so mad right now, im going to go to you twos epic forum reviving 75 page 200,000 view AMAs and ask the mods to close them!!! HAHAHAHHA. that will get you!!! (please posts links so i can go there, thanks) (if no links are available kindly STFU and run along)

by plaaynde m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58399304#post58399304)

I'd say limon is complex, some brilliance and some definitely not.

mostly brilliance though tbh.

by gregorio m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58400319#post58400319)

Didn't even make it one post

kinder 2024 thread incoming starting...NOW! (lets see who mucks it up 1st!!!!!)

by joshuasp75 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58397077#post58397077)

Now, please assume you have zero connections, and have to take up a new career - how would you get rich in 18 months?

why dont you give me no arms and no legs as well!!! lol. If I have zero connections i guess Im 22 again, make me 22 again and we'll give it a try. I might not succeed but being 22 again for 18months would be worth a million.

by Tuma m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58400903#post58400903)

How have you avoided being followed home, robbed, beaten, shanked, or worse, being a known professional with tons of money?

I use the players bank and safe deposit boxes at every casino i go to (even vegas) everyone knows i carry almost no cash or chips. after 25 years of this, Im sure ive been clocked by criminals several times seeing me sit with $100,000 in chips or whatever but when i got to the cage the team sees I leave with nothing.

Did two hats ever wear three hats?

by DizzyG m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58395849#post58395849)

That dude couldn't hold your drunken nut sack. I suggest you find a suitable protege before they send you on your way.

Suggestions?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401214#post58401214)

Suggestions?

A fool's errand

Thread saver: this lil putter turned 17!!

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401214#post58401214)

Suggestions?

Very small hands.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401599#post58401599)

Thread saver: this lil putter turned 17!! ... See full post

Your score on the 17th at Riviera?

Brilliant thread, just really good, message to the mods, if you ever have to ban Limon can’t you just leave this thread for Limon to post in? Couple of questions, How is owning a laundromat, profitable, low maintainace? Winning poker players seem to have a bit of a rage, I don’t really know why just an observation? As a fellow boozer do you ever worry about your liver? What’s the show up your sleeve you have been insinuating to a bit as in some kind of return of Limon hopefully like pokersesh? And happy birthday to Putter he still looks like a pup hope you give him some nice steak Have a 2024 Limon

Oh and a couple more A golf race sounds so hilarious Are there actually any rules? Amount of balls etc I was like I want to get my pals up for this And I can just imagine it like x amount of people going round the course like loonatics when £££ is on line and just ignoring all course etiquette sounds hilarious like should everyone try to set of as the earliest time so not to disturb people or like put a decent amount of money to people so it doesn’t matter and you don’t mind being banned from a course etc and people going crazy etc And also if you are ever towards London again would be great to have a round/ some kind of golf race 😀

by plaaynde m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58395018#post58395018)

When will limon be back?

limon never leaves. he is ubiquitous. feel the ubiquity.

by DizzyG m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58393670#post58393670)

A pic of Limon last time he played online poker. ... See full post

limon successfully executing the "move of honor" in this pic.

by bigdave2304 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58395844#post58395844)

What else was a part of your advantage play portfolio? Besides poker, blackjack, and steering dealers on ultimate. And do these opportunities still exist? Don't get perma banned! I don't agree with everything you say, at all, but enough is good that I think you're a valuable member. Maybe stop taking about people eating feces or balls

kelly sun said something ill always remember, "the dealer is an advantage player". As often as I can I try to be the dealer.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401711#post58401711)

limon never leaves. he is ubiquitous. feel the ubiquity.

The Jesus Twins Perform "Feel My Ubiquity" 2-25-1997 - YouTube

Tap to unmute

The Jesus Twins Perform "Feel My Ubiquity" 2-25-1997 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYstRWTWFX0)Hank The Angry Dwarf (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCNts1T6UBvLez_yx2iT6tA) Hank The Angry Dwarf9.89K subscribers

you're a complete idiot but this reference did not go unnoticed. RIP one of the twins that committed suicide. if only it were the manager that died instead... one of the all-time great appearances on the show.

by MastaAces m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401922#post58401922)

you're a complete idiot but this reference did not go unnoticed. RIP one of the twins that committed suicide. if only it were the manager that died instead...one of the all-time great appearances on the show.... See full post

I don't think it was suicide; cops shot him. I suppose it could have been suicide by cop, dude was batshit.

What do you think your stats are like for plo4 live? Vpip? 3b! Frequency? Wsd? You mentioned you crush online what sites do you suggest ? Also any interest in ever coming to parx, pa ? They spread some big plo4 games. Figured I’d get some questions in before you got permabanned by the modsters. Stay classy my guy.

by MastaAces m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401922#post58401922)

you're a complete idiot but this reference did not go unnoticed. RIP one of the twins that committed suicide. if only it were the manager that died instead...one of the all-time great appearances on the show.... See full post

I am your god, you worship me, you live and die by my every word. and youre finally starting to "get it".

by persianpunisher m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401059#post58401059)

Did two hats ever wear three hats?

no he was way to spectrum and OCD to do that. But there was a character who appeared on LATB a few times named "3 hats" who wore 3 hats. He looked suspiciously like cyrus n.

by Gillingham m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401654#post58401654)

Brilliant thread, just really good, message to the mods, if you ever have to ban Limon can’t you just leave this thread for Limon to post in?

This seems to be the general consensus. and its what my legions of fans will demand. Couple of questions,

1. How is owning a laundromat, profitable, low maintainace?

2. Winning poker players seem to have a bit of a rage, I don’t really know why just an observation?

3. As a fellow boozer do you ever worry about your liver?

4. What’s the show up your sleeve you have been insinuating to a bit as in some kind of return of Limon hopefully like pokersesh? And happy birthday to Putter he still looks like a pup hope you give him some nice steak Have a 2024 Limon

5. Sometimes the money has already been made. but ya, all of that

6. gambling selects for oddballs (especially in the pre-boom days, now it often selects for asperger dipshits who should have been working in a cubicle) winning at gambling doesnt move in a straight line so it sets people off. your earn is a bit of a mystery. the next time you win it might be the start of 30 straight wins, the next time you lose it might be the start of 30 straight losses. an oddball keeping weird hours with no idea of what their earn is going to be is always going to be a bit "rage prone".

7. the doctor says its ok so for now its just onward and upward!

8. Im in talks, something will probably start small. on an unrelated note: has Ballys big bet live at commerce been officially announced yet?

by Gillingham m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401664#post58401664)

Oh and a couple more A golf race sounds so hilariousAre there actually any rules? Amount of balls etc I was like I want to get my pals up for this And I can just imagine it like x amount of people going round the course like loonatics when £££ is on line and just ignoring all course etiquette sounds hilarious like should everyone try to set of as the earliest time so not to dis... See full post

the rules were regular golf rules there was just no score. so you basically hit the ball as many times as you wanted, sprint between shots, and got it in the hole as fast as possible. they went off as the first 2 golfers of the day so they didn't bother anyone.

Limon, on other forums you rail about "not wasting your life grinding micros" and "playing as big as you can afford" is this just a troll or do you really think people should put their whole roll on the table? I've never heard anyone else give this advice. Also, you were challenging everyone to bets on twitter before you were banned. How much did you bet on Biden? You still like these bets? Thanks legend!

This sounds infinitely better to watch than normal golf.

by kinglillil m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58404587#post58404587)

Limon, on other forums you rail about "not wasting your life grinding micros" and "playing as big as you can afford" is this just a troll or do you really think people should put their whole roll on the table? I've never heard anyone else give this advice. Also, you were challenging everyone to bets on twitter before you were banned. How much did you bet on Biden? You still lik... See full post

Micros is a hamster wheel for feeding the rake. Get off that wheel as soon as you can. If you fail, so be it. Better to move on to a new endeavor then waste time making or losing chump change.

by DizzyG m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58404743#post58404743)

Micros is a hamster wheel for feeding the rake. Get off that wheel as soon as you can. If you fail, so be it. Better to move on to a new endeavor then waste time making or losing chump change.

Biggest stakes have the biggest fish, key to poker is running good when you shot take so you never have to go back to small stakes.

by DuckSauce m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58404817#post58404817)

Biggest stakes have the biggest fish, key to poker is running good when you shot take so you never have to go back to small stakes.

lol

If 1/2 live is easier than 10NL online, then online poker is the best way to improve without risking too much. **** the rake, just play zoom and go straight to the points where you have weaknesses. Study them, correct your mistakes and go play live. You will progress way faster. Btw, if you can't beat 10NL you suck. There is still plenty of fish and super shitty regs.

by PokerEthics m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58402216#post58402216)

What do you think your stats are like for plo4 live? Vpip? 3b! Frequency? Wsd? You mentioned you crush online what sites do you suggest ? Also any interest in ever coming to parx, pa ? They spread some big plo4 games. Figured I’d get some questions in before you got permabanned by the modsters. Stay classy my guy.

oh man i have no clue my stats, im playing detailed exploitive strat against specific players ive known for years not an overarching strat i can employ on multiple tables at the same time. Against some people i will play like 80%+ of my hands/see flops in position against others im either 3 betting or folding. Im guessing my WSD is lower than most. im not curious, i ditch bad situations early and tend to bluff the right people a lot not going to showdown. these games play multi way so understanding the dynamics of multi way pots is where al the money is made. I crushed online between 15 and 20 years ago! lololol. i suggest a time machine? I have no interest in playing a single hand of poker anyplace that doesnt pay me. limon doesnt play for free, he brings too much to the table and knows his worth. me and the mods are getting along swimmingly at this point.

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58405024#post58405024)

lol

100% true in my experience, goes across all things watch someone betting 10k a hand in bj and they are doing things like doubling on 13 because he just feels like it i have a much higher win rate in dfs h2h contests over over $100 than in lower dollar contests and by far my worst win rate is in the $1 category the kind of degen who degens at 1/2 is the kind for which the money is still somewhat meaningful to their life, they will play poorly not because of indifference but because they are degens who "want to see a flop" or "want to show off their skill by raising blind" the kind of degens at the high stakes games are going to raise blind not because it's a validation of their skill, they are accomplished people with wealth, they don't feel the need to impress anyone with stuff like that, they instead raise blind because it entertains them fish are way bigger fish the higher stakes go you - what makes higher stakes more difficult is the higher quality and higher percentage of pros what killed macau wasn't that the nature of the game changed, it was that at a 10 handed table you got 6-9 pros sitting down and it made the games so bad not even the fish wanted to play in them it's fun to sit down and do goofy stuff at a table with 9 strangers in what's clearly a free for all it's miserable to sit down where it's extremely clear everyone there is purely focused on acquiring your money and they are not interested in playing each other ... *wasn't that the fish got better

by kinglillil m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58404587#post58404587)

Limon, on other forums you rail about "not wasting your life grinding micros" and "playing as big as you can afford" is this just a troll or do you really think people should put their whole roll on the table? I've never heard anyone else give this advice. Also, you were challenging everyone to bets on twitter before you were banned. How much did you bet on Biden? You still lik... See full post

1. You never meet anyone living a good life trying to grind small stakes as a job (games below $5 big blind). its a rake trap and a life trap. people ask what bankroll do i need for 1-3 or whatever endlessly. YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE A BANKROLL FOR A GAME SMALLER THAN 5-5...YOU SHOULD HAVE A JOB!!! you take the money from your job and you play as big as you possibly can and hope to run hot. win big or lose fast. no fate is worse than losing slow and wasting your life in a game where if everything went right you'd still only make a few hundred bucks. play in a game where you can make a few thousand bucks. something that can lead to something. every complete loser scumbag railbird degenerate in your casino has had a massive run (or several). these dudes do it right, they play as big as they possibly can and like once every 5 years go from 2-5nl to 25-50 nl in like a week and are buying in for 20k, whole bankroll on table!. The thing they do wrong is never backing off, never working on their game, and just blowing it all. You, as a smart person, will take that 15 buy in sun run that will happen sooner or later and not squander it. you will study, you will game select, you will know your limitations and you will have a REAL LIFE because you never wasted time in small stakes misery. One of the great things about poker is you dont have to "work your way up" or start at the bottom. you can skip right to the middle, or the top! Small stakes grinder is a losers mindset, from the first time i ever played in a giant LA casino until i was playing the biggest daily game in that casino was less than a month (yes i ran like god, everyone does at some point)
2. I have 35k on bets that are basically worded "trump will not be the next president". I didn't make any bets specifically on biden (though he is a great president and i will happily vote for him again) I still love these bets and will likely make more after Iowa.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406288#post58406288)

1. You never meet anyone living a good life trying to grind small stakes as a job (games below $5 big blind). its a rake trap and a life trap. people ask what bankroll do i need for 1-3 or whatever endlessly. YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE A BANKROLL FOR A GAME SMALLER THAN 5-5...YOU SHOULD HAVE A JOB!!! you take the money from your job and you play as big as you possibly can and hope t... See full post

The bolded is dead on. There are many people who would be better off if they were worse at poker so they'd just quit instead of wasting their life for scraps. If Biden died before the election do you still win that bet since Harris will be the next president?

by 420legalize420 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58405030#post58405030)

If 1/2 live is easier than 10NL online, then online poker is the best way to improve without risking too much. **** the rake, just play zoom and go straight to the points where you have weaknesses. Study them, correct your mistakes and go play live. You will progress way faster. Btw, if you can't beat 10NL you suck. There is still plenty of fish and super shitty regs.

yes, micro stakes online are a good place to get in "reps" as long as you know full well its a massive waste of time from an immediate money making perspective. the problem starts when people who play micros or small live games start to talk about win rates and bank rolls and circle jerk each other into thinking its a job and waste everyone's time. theres always some dork who has a whole whopping 896 hours lifetime at 1-2 or something convincing other newbies that 20bb/hr is standard for a good player and a "great 1-2 player" (oxymoron) can make $50 an hour. that small rake trap games are a viable job and/or stepping stone. THEY ARE NOT, THEY ARE A TRAP!!!

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406624#post58406624)

yes, micro stakes online are a good place to get in "reps" as long as you know full well its a massive waste of time from an immediate money making perspective. the problem starts when people who play micros or small live games start to talk about win rates and bank rolls and circle jerk each other into thinking its a job and waste everyone's time. theres always some dork who h... See full post

How is this a "problem", so long as they, and their newbie followers, are playing (and losing to you) ? Micro-stakes are the greatest newbie acquisition tool ever. for the poker industry, live and online. They ARE a "stepping stone". Casinos cannot afford to spread them live due to cost considerations, but they were a god-send to creating and sustaining live poker, as well as online poker, as fish lures. That is just my opinion, but its based on 20+ years of industry observation (and the Doug Polk poker origin story)

by Gzesh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58407057#post58407057)

How is this a "problem", so long as they, and their newbie followers, are playing (and losing to you) ?Micro-stakes are the greatest newbie acquisition tool ever. for the poker industry, live and online.They ARE a "stepping stone". Casinos cannot afford to spread them live due to cost considerations, but they were a god-send to creating and sustaining live poker, as well as on... See full post

weren't you recently trying to get this thread shut down lil Gash? good thing you didn't or i couldn't correct your dumb observations. aLmost no one playing micros or small stakes live is ever playing or losing to me. it attracts no one who helps the mid/hi poker economy. they are in no way a stepping stone for gamblers only soulless nit regs. The bad players die in micros and are raked out of existence, no mid/hi whale ever came out of grinding micros or small stakes live, mid/hi whales jump straight to big games they dont start small, they view poker like blackjack or another table game, they dont go to the $1 tables to "work their way up" lololololol. they go where action that excites them is. Your doug polk observation is correct, that is the type of player coming out of these stakes, tough smart players with a lot of gamble who jump up FAST, never whale fish. the players that stick there are souless grinders who were meant for cubicle jobs and bad players who can never get their head above water because they are being raked to death. these games sustain poker in no way shape or form. they are rake traps that sustain the casinos and stop money from getting to bigger games. this is one of the reasons (along with tournaments) that bigger games are drying up super quick, becoming insanely predatory and most are private or semi private at this point. If all games under $5 big blind were eliminate and all small buy on tournaments the poker economy would get a massive boost instantly and people would have more fun! they would save a little and play bigger games. THE CASINO WOULD LOSE, and everyone else would win. you would get a culture of "shot takers" and not a culture of **** grinders and people hating poker because they lose to the rake in small games and never had a chance.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58407245#post58407245)

weren't you recently trying to get this thread shut down lil Gash? good thing you didn't or i couldn't correct your dumb observations. aLmost no one playing micros or small stakes live is ever playing or losing to me. it attracts no one who helps the mid/hi poker economy. they are in no way a stepping stone for gamblers only soulless nit regs. The bad players die in micros and ... See full post

Interesting take. So what would your advice be for someone who is only rolled for the 1/2 1/3 nl games to move up? Are tournaments a better option than the small stakes cash games?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58407245#post58407245)

weren't you recently trying to get this thread shut down lil Gash? good thing you didn't or i couldn't correct your dumb observations. aLmost no one playing micros or small stakes live is ever playing or losing to me. it attracts no one who helps the mid/hi poker economy. they are in no way a stepping stone for gamblers only soulless nit regs. The bad players die in micros and ... See full post

I think you are confused. I have never made any attempt to shut down this thread. (I check it probably daily because I think it the most "live", engaged thread on 2+2) In the past, I spent many years tracking player progression from micro-stakes to higher stakes online. Literally, data on a few hundreds of newbie accounts, from entry level in Micros to progressively higher buy-in cash games. (I mentioned Doug Polk because his publicly posted description of his poker evolution followed that sort of progression.) Where do you THINK players originate ? As for your prediction that casinos eliminating ALL games under $5 big blinds and all small buy-in tournaments, concluding that means "THE CASINO WOULD LOSE" is truly myopic and not well-thought out. "THE CASINO" would not sustain a money-losing offering just so poker players can feed on fish swimming in deeper water. If the games lose money, the casinos will NOT offer them long term. Why do you think they would do so ?. When casino poker roomswere shut down because of CoVid, online poker, including micro-stakes, experienced tremendous growth.

by maromb78 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58407684#post58407684)

Interesting take. So what would your advice be for someone who is only rolled for the 1/2 1/3 nl games to move up? Are tournaments a better option than the small stakes cash games?

He's advising to shot take aggressively and establish yourself at the higher level. So for example if you're rolled for 1/2, 1/3 you could get a job, save up a 2-3-4 buyin for 2/5 and take your shot. If you're a winning player at 2/5 one of your shots is likely to eventually be successful. The crux of this is that he believes playing 1/3 for income is a wasteful use of time. If you're bankrolled for 1/3 and you have a job you can live off you can shot take right now.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406288#post58406288)

YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE A BANKROLL FOR A GAME SMALLER THAN 5-5...YOU SHOULD HAVE A JOB!!!

Truth.

I find 1/2 beatable more so than 1/3. The newbies and recreational players seem to congregate at 1/2 and the pros and semi-pros move up to 1/3 and higher. I do see some semi-pros bum hunting at 1/2 and we take turns with big pots and winning sessions. A while back two guys were shoving all in blind and together punted about $2k, so booking a $1k win on a $300 buy in week after week doesn't seem so bad. The other night I decided to take Limon's advice and asked the floor to put me on the 2/5 list. He looked at me quizzically, I've known him for a long time, and said '...are you SURE you want to be on the 2/5 list?...' The way he said it caused me not to be on the 2/5 game, I took it to mean I should stay at the 1/2 game where it is easy money. But to each their own. BTW I'm retired, don't need to work and am contented to just double my buy in every night, not looking to turn pro.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406288#post58406288)

1. You never meet anyone living a good life trying to grind small stakes as a job (games below $5 big blind). its a rake trap and a life trap. people ask what bankroll do i need for 1-3 or whatever endlessly. YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE A BANKROLL FOR A GAME SMALLER THAN 5-5...YOU SHOULD HAVE A JOB!!! you take the money from your job and you play as big as you possibly can and hope t... See full post

Limon, may I ask in which way you see Biden as a good president? Non American here, just curious as the whole world laughs at your superior president for some time now.

by BalticGuy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408405#post58408405)

Limon, may I ask in which way you see Biden as a good president? Non American here, just curious as the whole world laughs at your superior president for some time now.

wow you speak for the whole world? and here i though you were just an ignorant fuqtard who cant see that the biden economy is the strongest and fastest growing on the globe. speaking for the whole world must be tiring. go do it somewhere else bitch.

by maromb78 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58407684#post58407684)

Interesting take. So what would your advice be for someone who is only rolled for the 1/2 1/3 nl games to move up? Are tournaments a better option than the small stakes cash games?

there is no roll for 1-2. you have a job. use your discretionary income to buy into 5-5 or bigger and yolo. you will go on a sun run sooner or later and now you can make some REAL choices about your life. i hate to say this, but since i am completely honest in this thread at all times i will. If you are a recreational player you should only play tournaments, they have everything a rec wants, time sink, excitement, possibility of a big score. If you want to play for money you should NEVER play tournaments, they are an absolute waste of time under 10k buy in and 10ks are so few and far between that the variance is insane. better off just not playing them since they require very specialized poker training to be a winner and its just not worth the time.

by Gzesh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408059#post58408059)

I think you are confused. I have never made any attempt to shut down this thread. (I check it probably daily because I think it the most "live", engaged thread on 2+2)In the past, I spent many years tracking player progression from micro-stakes to higher stakes online. Literally, data on a few hundreds of newbie accounts, from entry level in Micros to progressively higher buy-i... See full post

He obviously doesn't mean that the casino would lose money - he means that by shutting down all 1/2-1/3 games the casino would make less money than they are currently. Also very obviously while "pros"/"grinders" do work their way up from micros/small stakes--> midstakes/high stakes, this is a population of winning players. Limon is clearly referring to where the population of losing players/fish originate from at mid/high stakes. The answer is clearly that they didn't "work there way up" b/c they would be losing/breakeven at all stakes... they are people who already had enough money to gamble at mid/high stakes and jumped in the game that made sense for how much money they like to gamble with/bring to casino.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408421#post58408421)

there is no roll for 1-2. you have a job. use your discretionary income to buy into 5-5 or bigger and yolo. you will go on a sun run sooner or later and now you can make some REAL choices about your life. i hate to say this, but since i am completely honest in this thread at all times i will. If you are a recreational player you should only play tournaments, they have everythin... See full post

Speaking as someone who used to "grind" (never full time) and was a winning player at 5/10 live, now I just play tournaments b/c they are way more fun than cash as a recreational player. I also have such little time to spend at casinos its way more fun to schedule around some WPT/WSOP 4x/year than spend a wife pass on a day trip to AC or whatever. Was way different story when I could go play like almost every weekend, if I had ability to play a lot would be more interested in cash again. Still take poker super seriously / am a mega nerd but like I feel I understand the mindset much better of a fish now lol

by ravager 102 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408434#post58408434)

He obviously doesn't mean that the casino would lose money - he means that by shutting down all 1/2-1/3 games the casino would make less money than they are currently.Also very obviously while "pros"/"grinders" do work their way up from micros/small stakes--> midstakes/high stakes, this is a population of winning players. Limon is clearly referring to where the population of l... See full post

You sir, win the coveted limon "reading comprehension" award. It is rarely given on online forums where the dumbest but most vocal critics seem to like to read, at most, every other word of the post they are criticizing. This prestigious award also comes with one free beer if you ever see me out and about.

by Gzesh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408059#post58408059)

I think you are confused. I have never made any attempt to shut down this thread. (I check it probably daily because I think it the most "live", engaged thread on 2+2) .

Huh? this is you no? by Gzesh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58396423#post58396423)

...Bobo, I would think this thread has run its course re any poker forum value ... and I say that as a regular viewer for a pretty long time. Time to close thread..

Apologize for your insolence if you want me to interact with you further.

Now that's pretty funny.

limon had dat receipt, lol.

by marknfw m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408531#post58408531)

Now that's pretty funny.

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408559#post58408559)

limon had dat receipt, lol.

limon delivers.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408421#post58408421)

there is no roll for 1-2. you have a job. use your discretionary income to buy into 5-5 or bigger and yolo. you will go on a sun run sooner or later and now you can make some REAL choices about your life. i hate to say this, but since i am completely honest in this thread at all times i will. If you are a recreational player you should only play tournaments, they have everythin... See full post

If you're a rec you should play what you want to play. You're playing for fun.I know tons of recs who just want to play a few hours in a night 2-3 times a week. They don't want a long time sink.For them tournaments basically make no sense. Many recs just prefer cash over tournaments for other reasons. Additionally in the northeast while the Borgata is having its first real tournament series in 4 years right now,and some smaller tournaments have popped up lately ,for basically 2+ years after things reopened from COVID there were no tournaments at all save for one 400 dollar event at borgata that was an absolute debacle. I do agree from a making money standpoint low buy in tournaments are a waste of time and variance fest. Most of the people grinding these things are broke as hell,backed, selling pieces and essentially hoping to hit the lottery. It's actually depressing seeing some of these guys for 5+ years still putting together a 10-20k package to play a bunch of small event during a series just wasting their lives thinking they have a massive edge when they're really just hoping to get absurdly lucky. Someone playing them for fun totally different story.

by ravager 102 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408434#post58408434)

He obviously doesn't mean that the casino would lose money - he means that by shutting down all 1/2-1/3 games the casino would make less money than they are currently.Also very obviously while "pros"/"grinders" do work their way up from micros/small stakes--> midstakes/high stakes, this is a population of winning players. Limon is clearly referring to where the population of l... See full post

Correct. While there are some guys trying to go pro who work their way up from 1/2 nl who might play 5/10 nl when they get 15k or whatever and drop back down when they get kicked in the teeth and lose half their money rinse and repeat that's not where 99 percent of the losing money in those games is coming from. Guys playing 100 dollar a hand blackjack don't "work their way up" from the ten dollar tables counting cards just like recs at 5/10 nl aren't grinding 1/2. They just like poker like gambling and that's what they're comfortable playing for.

by jcorb m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408387#post58408387)

I find 1/2 beatable more so than 1/3. The newbies and recreational players seem to congregate at 1/2 and the pros and semi-pros move up to 1/3 and higher. I do see some semi-pros bum hunting at 1/2 and we take turns with big pots and winning sessions.

Setting aside the dreadfully depressing thought of 1/3 "pros," it's pretty amazing that any poker room would spread both 1/2 NL and 1/3 NL, and even more amazing that people see some sort of appreciable difference between those two games. I think it's actually less of a difference than between, say, 2/4 limit and 3/6 limit.

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408665#post58408665)

I I do agree from a making money standpoint low buy in tournaments are a waste of time and variance fest. Most of the people grinding these things are broke as hell,backed, selling pieces and essentially hoping to hit the lottery.

Not to mention that the rake on low buy-in tournaments, like low limit cash games, is potentially unbeatable. I'm not a tournament guy so maybe I'm wrong.

I find the idea of even a 1-3 pro to be mindboggling; you could do just as well by being a would-you-like-fries-with-that pro. But then, I live in a town where the minimum wage is US$15/hour.

by jcorb m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408387#post58408387)

I find 1/2 beatable more so than 1/3. The newbies and recreational players seem to congregate at 1/2 and the pros and semi-pros move up to 1/3 and higher. I do see some semi-pros bum hunting at 1/2 and we take turns with big pots and winning sessions. A while back two guys were shoving all in blind and together punted about $2k, so booking a $1k win on a $300 buy in week aft... See full post

Theres not really any such thing as a "pro" at 1-3. dont worry. anyone who can play at all and has the proper mindset for even the tiniest chance of succeeding at poker jumps past these soul draining rake trap stakes instantly. Dont listen to anything a floor man has to say, floor men are nearly always failed gamblers and its rare to find someone who knows less about what is going on in a casino (maybe a dealer). If you are ever lucky enough to play with a floorman or in a "dealers game" you will instantly see they are the worst poker players on earth. Follow limons advice, live a little.

by hardinthepaint m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408831#post58408831)

Not to mention that the rake on low buy-in tournaments, like low limit cash games, is potentially unbeatable. I'm not a tournament guy so maybe I'm wrong.

its like low limit cash, it might be beatable for less than a mcdonalds employee if you put in thousands of hours of work and study. its a trap.

limon, do you regret not growing a beard and paying a woman to rub her fingers through it in public?

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409655#post58409655)

limon, do you regret not growing a beard and paying a woman to rub her fingers through it in public? ... See full post

You try playing 20 vpip for 3 hours at a time and see how sore your beard is afterwards

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409655#post58409655)

limon, do you regret not growing a beard and paying a woman to rub her fingers through it in public? ... See full post

squad goals.

by XtraScratch8 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409600#post58409600)

• chef’s kiss to the above

absolutely perfect, he says he can ignore my content while....not being able to ignore my content. he is a re+arded slave, but hes my slave.

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408665#post58408665)

It's actually depressing seeing some of these guys for 5+ years still putting together a 10-20k package to play a bunch of small event during a series just wasting their lives thinking they have a massive edge when they're really just hoping to get absurdly lucky. Someone playing them for fun totally different story.

even if you give these small stakes "tourney pros" a 30% roi (which is probably double what they can really achieve) they are making $150 on a $550 tourney with at least an average 12 hour time sink (some of these 500s go three days til a winner) thats a whopping $12.50 an hour. 1ks which you definitely have to travel and pay travel costs for get you all the way up to $25 an hour!!! Mcdonalds night manager territory!!!

by MastaAces m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409139#post58409139)

it's not really that mindboggling! most people enjoy playing poker without a boss to report to over serving fast food. some people are addicted to gambling and nobody is addicted to serving McDonald's.

lets be honest - most of these 1/3 guys either live with a spouse that pays the bills or live with their parents. 15/hr or hell even 20-25/hr is dogshit pay - works in a sleepy town in rural America maybe, but where I live that's called being poor. A pro 1/3 player is similar to a pro golfer that shoots 100 - just gotta laugh.

by pokerfan655 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409961#post58409961)

lets be honest - most of these 1/3 guys either live with a spouse that pays the bills or live with their parents. 15/hr or hell even 20-25/hr is dogshit pay - works in a sleepy town in rural America maybe, but where I live that's called being poor. A pro 1/3 player is similar to a pro golfer that shoots 100 - just gotta laugh.

and the part people overlook is its NO FUN being in a crappy card room looking at red and black rectangles for hours on end, it might be fun for a little while, casinos can fool you, but once the scales fall off your eyes its just another ****ing JOB. I had a 9-5 jobs for decades (and made big bank), none of them were worse than the idea of grinding small stakes poker for a living in a dying industry.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409949#post58409949)

even if you give these small stakes "tourney pros" a 30% roi (which is probably double what they can really achieve) they are making $150 on a $550 tourney with at least an average 12 hour time sink (some of these 500s go three days til a winner) thats a whopping $12.50 an hour. 1ks which you definitely have to travel and pay travel costs for get you all the way up to $25 an ho... See full post

Exactly my point. And somehow despite being willing and in some cases begging to sell at 1.3 it doesn't dawn on them the putrid hourly and super high variance that comes along with these things. Just an absolute waste of time if you're actually trying to make money from them. But of course some yokle has to win and 500 other guys just as good as whatever random yokle wins will say "I'm just as good as him that could be me". They're just chasing that mythical carrot on a stick. Hell I've met people who want to tell me or when brag about their 30-50k scores from 5-10 years ago. A few even bragged about their lol circuit rings. And yet all these time later broke and grinding 300-1k events hoping for another dopamine hit.

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58410021#post58410021)

Exactly my point. And somehow despite being willing and in some cases begging to sell at 1.3 it doesn't dawn on them the putrid hourly and super high variance that comes along with these things. Just an absolute waste of time if you're actually trying to make money from them.But of course some yokle has to win and 500 other guys just as good as whatever random yokle wins will ... See full post

Tournaments are to dumb breakeven regs what poker in general is to fish. They somehow can't see they are falling for the exact same trap, sucked in by disillusions of skill, never ever ever ever studying or seriously reflecting upon their strategy or honestly calculating their hourly and winrate, and paying rake hoping to spin up their last 2k in the savings account so they can be like their hero on pokergo who has some combination of double their IQ, 20x their work ethic, a lifelong sunrun, or really just better at business and networking than poker. It's also interesting to see how all these weird pathetic trolls come out of the woodwork trying to provoke limon (successfully). I don't really know what it is about him that makes people so upset. Clearly they are jealous of the attention he is getting on the thread or something because any rational person would simply not click on the thread if they thought it was all bs. He is a character and people take everything he says wayyy too seriously. But I can totally see how he sets up all these home games and sports bets and golf bets given people (for some reason) think he's a total moron and fraud, and then get their money taken because he's miles sharper than they ever thought.

by mapletreeway m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58410240#post58410240)

It's also interesting to see how all these weird pathetic trolls come out of the woodwork trying to provoke limon (successfully). I don't really know what it is about him that makes people so upset. Clearly they are jealous of the attention he is getting on the thread or something because any rational person would simply not click on the thread if they thought it was all bs. He... See full post

Pretty good analysis. You see that an important part of the bit is actually being much richer smarter and more successful than the morons you’re trolling, that’s what makes it stick. That’s why they freak out. They know in their heart that you are right. You missed one part but I can’t correct you or it ruins the whole thing. On a totally unrelated note: https://youtu.be/1uQlB99WCuk?si=We_SoBt5... (https://youtu.be/1uQlB99WCuk?si=We_SoBt5G1Gt5LR9) https://youtu.be/1bAQg-zWmsI?si=5M5R3cYe... (https://youtu.be/1bAQg-zWmsI?si=5M5R3cYe42zJEBvz)

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409984#post58409984)

and the part people overlook is its NO FUN being in a crappy card room looking at red and black rectangles for hours on end, it might be fun for a little while, casinos can fool you, but once the scales fall off your eyes its just another ****ing JOB. I had a 9-5 jobs for decades (and made big bank), none of them were worse than the idea of grinding small stakes poker for a liv... See full post

Agreed - casinos are very depressing filled with a bunch of life losers - not a place you want to spend 25+ hours a week at.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408413#post58408413)

wow you speak for the whole world? and here i though you were just an ignorant fuqtard who cant see that the biden economy is the strongest and fastest growing on the globe. speaking for the whole world must be tiring. go do it somewhere else bitch.

AHAHAHAHA. Why you cursing me though old man, relax

by pokerfan655 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409961#post58409961)

lets be honest - most of these 1/3 guys either live with a spouse that pays the bills or live with their parents. 15/hr or hell even 20-25/hr is dogshit pay - works in a sleepy town in rural America maybe, but where I live that's called being poor. A pro 1/3 player is similar to a pro golfer that shoots 100 - just gotta laugh.

Well ofc anyone who plays 1/3 “professionally” is gonna be poor lol (and I personally wouldn’t necessarily denigrate people just for being poor), but the point was that the misery of grinding 1/3 in a shitty casino all day around a bunch of miserable people is probably still significantly less awful than working at McDonald’s for an equivalent wage

by Scott7x m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58410495#post58410495)

Weird that his post has 5 likes and you, a literal legend of gambling, have to like your own posts to get one like in your own thread. u r a dumpster fire that ppl just like to point and laugh at. Ready, set, go!

Bump bump bump little slave birch. Good little slave keep my post at the top of the forum like the dog you are. Hahahahahhahaahahha.

by BalticGuy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58410542#post58410542)

AHAHAHAHA. Why you cursing me though old man, relax

I’m also shytting down your throat as well. So there’s that.

by whitemares m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58410592#post58410592)

Well ofc anyone who plays 1/3 “professionally” is gonna be poor lol (and I personally wouldn’t necessarily denigrate people just for being poor), but the point was that the misery of grinding 1/3 in a shitty casino all day around a bunch of miserable people is probably still significantly less awful than working at McDonald’s for an equivalent wage

if your only other option is working at mcdonalds you have a zero chance of being a winning poker player. at every level it requires decent brain power, enough to get a good office job at worst.

Thread saver. The time I was almost killed by mark k. The course charged him $1600 for repairs!!!!

i think i know who the liberalz are in this linear waste of space

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409984#post58409984)

and the part people overlook is its NO FUN being in a crappy card room looking at red and black rectangles for hours on end, it might be fun for a little while, casinos can fool you, but once the scales fall off your eyes its just another ****ing JOB. I had a 9-5 jobs for decades (and made big bank), none of them were worse than the idea of grinding small stakes poker for a liv... See full post

This is gold and so true. Not to mention barely making above the $15 minimum wage with no benefits and in a profession that 99% of people look down at..

Limon, Can you tell us some stories from your rounder days, when you traveled for work but only to cities with no limit Holdem games? I do the same for work, but I’m in an industry that is infinitely more gambly than poker, so being a live low stakes winner is beneficial but all my good stories are about drinking/drugs and liaisons with locals. Interested to see if you battled with staying at the table with people that think a straight beats a flush or if you left to party.

by rooooktaker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58410775#post58410775)

i think i know who the liberalz are in this linear waste of space

who?

What is your opinion on a staked player playing in a game with his backer?

WOW 5 STAR THREAD!! THANKS EVERYONE FOR VOTING 5 STARS!!! GREAT QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS SO FAR!!! LETS KEEP THIS PARTY GOING!!!!

by jinz3rd m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58411107#post58411107)

What is your opinion on a staked player playing in a game with his backer?

completely unethical. along with horses playing in the same game or people swapping and even cash game backing in general has a foul odor. in many ways it violates the one player to a hand rule.

What do you say to a poker player you see cheating? Ie leaving his bb close to his stack and then scooping them when no one is looking.

by Lionelhuttz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58410909#post58410909)

Limon, Can you tell us some stories from your rounder days, when you traveled for work but only to cities with no limit Holdem games?I do the same for work, but I’m in an industry that is infinitely more gambly than poker, so being a live low stakes winner is beneficial but all my good stories are about drinking/drugs and liaisons with locals. Interested to see if you bat... See full post

I was a credit auditor at the time and so i was in stores early not a lot of partying, at night i wanted to get poker in. That said, when other executives were on the road with me it was always a drunken debacle and i couldn't make it to the casino. the CEO of the company could literally drink 20 rum n cokes and still be the first guy in the office so he tried to destroy everyone at the bar/club when he traveled with us. The locations where these casinos were generally didn't lend themselves to partying for me at least. shitty sawdust joints in hayward,ca. sandia, nm. lubbock, tx. the palomar and vegas casinos back when there wasn't any daily no limit games and you had to play limit holdem with overs buttons!!! this was so long ago $1-2-straddle nl was the biggest game going in these places. this tiny handful of casinos were basically the only DAILY NL on the entire west coast!! there wasn't a single NL game in all of los angeles of course 25 years ago uncapped 1-2 ($3 rake cap) was the equivalent of prob 5-5nl+ today. min wage was $5.15 an hour!!! another reason all the threads about playing 1-3 or whatever as a job are so sad, i was trying to get people to play bigger than $1-2, 25 years ago, the thought of playing those stakes today as a job is f'ing insane. that would have been like me playing .25-50 cent as a job in 1998. lolololol

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412189#post58412189)

this was so long ago $1-2-straddle nl was the biggest game going in these places. this tiny handful of casinos were basically the only DAILY NL on the entire west coast!! there wasn't a single NL game in all of los angeles of course 25 years ago uncapped 1-2 was the equivalent of prob 5-5nl today. min wage was $5.15 an hour!!!

Hell, it's only $7.25 now. Federal, and in most states. I'm sure some states such as the People's Republic of California have jacked it up more than that, though, so maybe that's what you were thinking of.

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412201#post58412201)

Hell, it's only $7.25 now. Federal, and in most states. I'm sure some states such as the People's Republic of California have jacked it up more than that, though, so maybe that's what you were thinking of.

in 1st world states its $15 an hour at least.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58318856#post58318856)

1. no never. not even close. period. ive been offered great (and i mean great) cheating opportunities a half dozen times and declined. i have a spotless reputation over decades and have been involved in many millions of dollars in bets across all disciplines. i treat others as i would like to be treated.

So did you turn them in?

Time for a slight reset. This is an AMA thread, so let's stick with sincere questions for limon (and I don't count questions like "why are you an *******?" as sincere :p), and I'm sure you'll get sincere answers. Things have strayed from this quite a bit the last few weeks (not referring to any of the most recent posts), so I'd like to get it back on track. Thanks!

A lot of negativity toward the game in this thread and on 2p2 in general. Calling poker a "dying industry" isn't really accurate and considering that most of the negativity is coming from the 50+ age group, I think some of you just need to learn to change with the times and let go of the past. We know that according to you, the game will never be as good as it was in 2002 again. But here we are in 2024 and a lot of people are still playing so...next.

You mentioned Lubbock.. Did you ever play in any games with another 2+2 legend, Johnny Hughes?

I don't have a question but I just want to say that your super old story about two guys arguing over who is more Greek is one of my favorite posts to ever grace 2p2. Hopefully you actually posted that and I am not misremembering..

how did you track your poker activity? Did you log the financial aspect such as buy ins, wins losses, expenses, good games, bad games, best venue, etc. ?

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412480#post58412480)

A lot of negativity toward the game in this thread and on 2p2 in general. Calling poker a "dying industry" isn't really accurate and considering that most of the negativity is coming from the 50+ age group, I think some of you just need to learn to change with the times and let go of the past. We know that according to you, the game will never be as good as it was in 2002 again... See full post

You either don’t get out much or aren’t very observant. Poker isn’t going away any time soon but it’s certainly dying. The community is rapidly aging and very few young people are interested in poker. The effects of the poker boom and moneymaker are mostly lost on gen z and alpha.

by DiamondsOnMyNeck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412662#post58412662)

You either don’t get out much or aren’t very observant. Poker isn’t going away any time soon but it’s certainly dying. The community is rapidly aging and very few young people are interested in poker. The effects of the poker boom and moneymaker are mostly lost on gen z and alpha.

Tons of young people are interested in poker. Every college campus has games running. The reason poker is dying is because it's so damn easy to figure out how to not suck, so only the absolute dumbest people still lose while anyone with half a brain and any interest in keeping their money can at least breakeven. There's probably 1000 articles and youtube videos teaching you that you shouldn't open limp j7s and once you figure that out it's pretty trivial to be winning money at low stakes.

by mapletreeway m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412678#post58412678)

Tons of young people are interested in poker. Every college campus has games running. The reason poker is dying is because it's so damn easy to figure out how to not suck, so only the absolute dumbest people still lose while anyone with half a brain and any interest in keeping their money can at least breakeven. There's probably 1000 articles and youtube videos teaching you tha... See full post

Whatever you say. I’m fairly sure there’s less 20somethings interested in poker today than there were in 2005. I’m also sure there’s less games running on college campuses than there were 10 years ago. But we can agree to disagree I don’t really care.

by DiamondsOnMyNeck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412662#post58412662)

You either don’t get out much or aren’t very observant.

Seems like I'm not the one who's misunderstanding things. Stop living in the past and convincing yourself of all these bizarre things because you can't beat the games today. As you see, right away someone had to correct your ignorance.

by DiamondsOnMyNeck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412690#post58412690)

Whatever you say. I’m fairly sure there’s less 20somethings interested in poker today than there were in 2005. I’m also sure there’s less games running on college campuses than there were 10 years ago. But we can agree to disagree I don’t really care.

What you're "sure" of means nothing. We've already established that you're clueless and living in the past. TONS of young people are interested in poker. It's a rapidly growing market both online and live. That's just a monetary fact. Dust the cobwebs off, take a shower, and get with 2024.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412699#post58412699)

Seems like I'm not the one who's misunderstanding things. Stop living in the past and convincing yourself of all these bizarre things because you can't beat the games today. As you see, right away someone had to correct your ignorance.

Please reference: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58412404&postcount=1465)

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412703#post58412703)

What you're "sure" of means nothing. We've already established that you're clueless and living in the past. TONS of young people are interested in poker. It's a rapidly growing market both online and live. That's just a monetary fact. Dust the cobwebs off, take a shower, and get with 2024.

I honestly don’t have any interest in going back and forth with an idiot. I never commented on my ability to beat games in 2024. Simply making an observation on interest in poker from younger players. Not surprising you’re way too dumb to even comprehend that. Let’s just agree to disagree

by DiamondsOnMyNeck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412707#post58412707)

I honestly don’t have any interest in going back and forth with an idiot. I never commented on my ability to beat games in 2024. Simply making an observation on interest in poker from younger players. Not surprising you’re way too dumb to even comprehend that. Let’s just agree to disagree

Yet you're the one who needed to have their entire foundation of understanding immediately corrected by multiple people. There are young people getting into the game, the industry is growing rapidly financially (live and online, believe that or not), and the game is in no way a "dying industry" as was the original claim I took objection to. It's growing. Rapidly. So, sure...we can agree to disagree based on those facts.

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412706#post58412706)

Please reference: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58412404&postcount=1465)

this bickering is ok. what bobo is talking about is some stalker dude who was chasing me around the forums and threatening me with violence. there are some real nuts on here.

by Kanedog11 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58411796#post58411796)

What do you say to a poker player you see cheating? Ie leaving his bb close to his stack and then scooping them when no one is looking.

some real talk here, how much is he losing? if hes losing a buy on an hour ill pay his blinds, lol. if hes your general angle shooting loser i will politely say to the dealer, "where's the big blind?" when she points to it i will say "please move it forward, i cant see it, my fault my fault". this will nearly always end it with no feelings hurt and losers keep losing. if the player is break even or bad for the game at all i will straight call him out, accuse of cheating and try to get him banned from the casino. this is pro poker.

by c double m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412338#post58412338)

So did you turn them in?

1. I tend to like to stay above ground breathing
2. turn them in to who? lololololol

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412404#post58412404)

Time for a slight reset. This is an AMA thread, so let's stick with sincere questions for limon (and I don't count questions like "why are you an *******?" as sincere :p), and I'm sure you'll get sincere answers. Things have strayed from this quite a bit the last few weeks (not referring to any of the most recent posts), so I'd like to get it back on track. Thanks!

there have been ZERO literally ZERO people that have come to me in good faith with genuine curiosity that have not been treated with respect and dignity in this thread or any other thread i have posted in. When people come at me with negativity snark or disrespect they get that back TEN FOLD. Many posters here aren't used to the posts of an according to hoyle genius multi millionaire legend of poker. When i cut right to the chase and jump 10 steps past where they were thinking it scares them and they lash out like infants. When i make a post in a thread i am generally giving the correct and final answer, the reaction from my inferiors is fear. How do i know this? you can look at the things i say in other threads and there will be others (randoms/unknowns) who post nearly the same thing but they are not attacked. When i post i am viciously attacked. the inferiors cant just ignore what ive said as a random comment, they know their superior has spoken, they receive a narcissistic injury and must lash out.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412480#post58412480)

A lot of negativity toward the game in this thread and on 2p2 in general. Calling poker a "dying industry" isn't really accurate and considering that most of the negativity is coming from the 50+ age group, I think some of you just need to learn to change with the times and let go of the past. We know that according to you, the game will never be as good as it was in 2002 again... See full post

calling poker a dying industry is 100% accurate. The games get smaller every year. in 2008 there were at least 12 $10-20nl++ public games running on a friday night in LA. in 2023 theres probably one!!! The same is true in vegas where bigger games are increasingly private/semi private, these are the poker capitols of the world. these are easily proven facts. yes you might want to be in this industry still, but the FACT that it is a dying industry AT THE LEVELS NECESSARY TO MAKE REAL MONEY (150k a year+++) is irrefutable

I mean, is this even true? High stakes live poker really doesn't seem to be diminishing very much. Even the WSOP continues to grow in $$ each year. In any event, calling it a dying industry is just a bridge a little too far. In my honestly humble opinion. I'm clueless next to some of you. Not all of you, though. Do you think Chess is a dying industry/game?

by Vaquero m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412499#post58412499)

You mentioned Lubbock.. Did you ever play in any games with another 2+2 legend, Johnny Hughes?

i assume so. i dont remember a lot of the people i played with way back then. ray zee a couple times in colma iirc, sunny mehta, banker sam, matt flynn, bobby hoff, joe "win" herzog, mansour, bob stupak once, jack ryan, fisherman greg, puggy (the cheat), gabe kaplan many others. there weren't really big DAILY no limit games back then only during the WSOP and i was a small fish shot taker at that point in the late 90s early 2000s so i didn't play with a lot of the "old legends" much. I was in los angeles most of the time and it was nearly 100% limit poker.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412814#post58412814)

I mean, is this even true? High stakes live poker really doesn't seem to be diminishing very much. Even the WSOP continues to grow in $$ each year. In any event, calling it a dying industry is just a bridge a little too far. In my honestly humble opinion. I'm clueless next to some of you. Not all of you, though. Do you think Chess is a dying industry/game?

the WSOP has as much to do with poker as the kentucky derby has to do with horse racing. its a perfect analogy. horse racing is dying/dead but getting a ticket to the derby costs a fortune. its sold out wayyyy in advance, ITS AN EVENT. The WSOP is also an event, it has NOTHING to do with poker players who grind daily to make a good living. People dress up and get excited to go to the big event, it does NOTHING to help the guy tryin to make 150k a year playing cash in atlantic city or whatever. IT ACTUALLY HURTS THAT GUY, the working poker cash game pro. tournaments suck the life out of PRO POKER. You are mistaking events where amateurs waste SMALL money for health, health is big juicy DAILY PUBLIC cash games where you can make an UPPER MIDDLE CLASS LIVING. these games are going going gone. SIMPLY: many of you are taking about the health of poker, who cares? im talking about the health of PRO POKER. (every big name you guys look up to is complaining about being locked out of games and public games drying up, that is what is really happening) i know noting about chess, seems like a massive waste of time. i play for money.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412829#post58412829)

the WSOP has as much to do with poker as the kentucky derby has to do with horse racing. its a perfect analogy. horse racing is dying/dead but getting a ticket to the derby costs a fortune. its sold out wayyyy in advance, ITS AN EVENT. The WSOP is also an event, it has NOTHING to do with poker players who grind daily to make a good living. People dress up and get excited to go... See full post

If you had started playing Chess young, I would imagine you would have gotten quite good at it. Just from reading this thread and what your experiences with poker and money are. In that case, there would be financial incentives to progress to becoming a titled player and playing fulltime. It's just really, really hard so most players supplement their tournament winnings by writing ebooks, software, making videos, streaming, etc. With poker, the same is also true in that streaming, software, coaching, etc brings in a ton of money to a lot of people. With the market expected to grow dramatically by 2030+ (it is), I think the game will continue to offer people the opportunity to make $150k+ a year for quite some time. Harder to do than in your day? Obviously. Much. But there are guys doing it. If you combine live + online + coaching, etc - that's a lot of money. I'm not saying it's the best lifestyle or anything like that but for some of these players, poker is really it for them. That's all they want to do. You have a lot of young chess players like that today, too. They do nothing but play and study chess. Like you said way back in the beginning of this thread: Asperger's.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412814#post58412814)

I mean, is this even true? High stakes live poker really doesn't seem to be diminishing very much. Even the WSOP continues to grow in $$ each year. In any event, calling it a dying industry is just a bridge a little too far. In my honestly humble opinion. I'm clueless next to some of you. Not all of you, though. Do you think Chess is a dying industry/game?

higher stakes public cash games are absolutely dying. this isn't even up for debate. There are a lot less of them than even 5 years ago and the game quality is much worse. And this is going to continue in the same direction. Now i would agree that lower stakes games and tournaments are doing very well. But how much money can people really make in low stakes games and what are most tournament grinders really making per hour on average? I mean seriously take the top 1000 guys grinding the tournament circuit and very few of them are making good money year in year out and most are wasting their lives, many buried in makeup basically hoping to hit the lottery. As an industry , playing poker for FUN is doing great no doubt about that. That doesn't mean NOBODY can make good money at poker. If tons of people were making 150k( since that's the number being thrown around) 5-10 years ago in public cash games, and way less people make that today (even though the money is worth a lot less) then yea poker as an industry for making a good living is def getting a lot worse.

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413006#post58413006)

higher stakes public cash games are absolutely dying. this isn't even up for debate. There are a lot less of them than even 5 years ago and the game quality is much worse. And this is going to continue in the same direction.Now i would agree that lower stakes games and tournaments are doing very well.But how much money can people really make in low stakes games and what are mos... See full post

That and the fact that 150k is a lot less now than it was with inflation. Health insurance for said player's family went from $400 a month to $1700 a month.

by floatingtheriver m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413051#post58413051)

That and the fact that 150k is a lot less now than it was with inflation. Health insurance for said player's family went from $400 a month to $1700 a month.

It depends on the State you're in...but even if we're talking about federal assistance: It is beyond easy to get full medical/dental/vision coverage for not a penny. Never a copay, no fees, nothing. Even if you're earning a bit already. Socialized healthcare if basically already here. Just saying. But of course your point about inflation is true. Unfortunately. Now I'm seriously thinking about committing to this. Just to see how far I can go under today's circumstances. Playing a mix of both live and online. I have a starting roll of like ~$6k and enough income each month to cover almost the entirety of my bills. But, as you point out, I could put that same time and energy into something else and probably make out much better in the end. Financially and psychologically. We'll see.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412770#post58412770)

there have been ZERO literally ZERO people that have come to me in good faith with genuine curiosity that have not been treated with respect and dignity in this thread or any other thread i have posted in. When people come at me with negativity snark or disrespect they get that back TEN FOLD. Many posters here aren't used to the posts of an according to hoyle genius multi milli... See full post

Good to hear that no one here has taken you seriously. Been lurking here for quite some time and it's been a long time since such a delusional attention whore has made a thread at this level. Didnt even wanted to reply to this thread. But when you write, "poker is dying", I wonder how you explain that the EPT/WPT sets new participant records every year?

Limon! Thank you for this thread. We’ve been waiting for something like this ever since #2000. What are your thoughts on the future of the PGA Tour and LIV? LIV getting Rahm is a game changer imo. The PGAT is going to have to let these guys play both tours, and anyone in PGAT leadership that says Rahm can’t play in their events should be fired.

by GG99Slayer m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413806#post58413806)

Good to hear that no one here has taken you seriously. Been lurking here for quite some time and it's been a long time since such a delusional attention whore has made a thread at this level. Didnt even wanted to reply to this thread. But when you write, "poker is dying", I wonder how you explain that the EPT/WPT sets new participant records every year?

He already explained that a few posts ago.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413798#post58413798)

It depends on the State you're in...but even if we're talking about federal assistance: It is beyond easy to get full medical/dental/vision coverage for not a penny. Never a copay, no fees, nothing. Even if you're earning a bit already. Socialized healthcare if basically already here.

It is? I've always had a job, so health insurance has never been an issue, so I'm not really aware of the conditions of the "open market" per se. If what you say is true, then what is everyone bitching about?

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413842#post58413842)

He already explained that a few posts ago.

I'm sure he read it. He just disagrees with it. In all reality: The numbers just don't support "poker is a dying industry" but it's nice to hear other people's opinions now and then. Limon brought up a point about public games and what not but poker is played outside of just LA. There are lot of opportunities to play private games for high stakes in other metropolitan areas. At least here in the NY area - the game is definitely growing again. Look at projects like GTOWizard. Elite is $150/mo. and yet they're having no problems selling subs. Look at the coaching packages some guys are selling and for thousands of dollars. There would be no market for these products if the game was shrinking. Period.

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413843#post58413843)

It is? I've always had a job, so health insurance has never been an issue, so I'm not really aware of the conditions of the "open market" per se. If what you say is true, then what is everyone bitching about?

They're bitching because they don't know any better. They're just ignorant. Or they live in a State that doesn't just provide everything for free. More and more do though, and as said: Federal assistance is easier to get every day. Why do you think everyone and their brother is rushing the border? We're on a crazy, socialist spending spree right now.

by GG99Slayer m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413806#post58413806)

Good to hear that no one here has taken you seriously. Been lurking here for quite some time and it's been a long time since such a delusional attention whore has made a thread at this level. Didnt even wanted to reply to this thread. But when you write, "poker is dying", I wonder how you explain that the EPT/WPT sets new participant records every year?

instead of just bumping my thread like the bitch ass slave you are try reading the thread and you'd have the answer to your question. its insanely simple but obv too advanced for my dumbass slaves. maybe just stick to bumping my thread and increasing my view count to make me more of a legend than i already am.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413918#post58413918)

instead of just bumping my thread like the bitch ass slave you are try reading the thread and you'd have the answer to your question. its insanely simple but obv too advanced for my dumbass slaves. maybe just stick to bumping my thread and increasing my view count to make me more of a legend than i already am.

I don't mind your posts (I'm pretty thick skinned). I just think the game is still a little more alive than you realize because of how you've already made your money and don't need anything from it anymore. Dude...lots of 5/5 and 5/10 games locally here north of NYC that you can easily get into if you have any social skills at all. Very, very soft games but of course higher variance because they're always so eager to get the money in. And other states like Texas are just brimming with live games. For a guy living outside of Dallas playing fulltime online + live...I think some people could do very well for themselves in that environment.

by barolowned m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412520#post58412520)

I don't have a question but I just want to say that your super old story about two guys arguing over who is more Greek is one of my favorite posts to ever grace 2p2. Hopefully you actually posted that and I am not misremembering..

mikech said he found that post here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=8047914&postcount=54) but the link isn't working??

by jcorb m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412590#post58412590)

how did you track your poker activity? Did you log the financial aspect such as buy ins, wins losses, expenses, good games, bad games, best venue, etc. ?

Up until the point i started making rake playing in the game i kept meticulous records and details about games and players. once i was making more money off the rake and off my ownership of LATB i started keeping more blunt poker record keeping. maximizing my win in the game was no longer my goal, the health of the game was my goal. basically i know how much is in my safe deposit box and players bank (cash business) and i know how much that number goes up every month, thats all poker money, no checks go in there. sometimes big withdrawals are made though!

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412829#post58412829)

the WSOP has as much to do with poker as the kentucky derby has to do with horse racing. its a perfect analogy. horse racing is dying/dead but getting a ticket to the derby costs a fortune. its sold out wayyyy in advance, ITS AN EVENT. The WSOP is also an event, it has NOTHING to do with poker players who grind daily to make a good living. People dress up and get excited to go... See full post

This is one of the best posts in this thread. Unfortunately it is accurate

by Stu Ungar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58410852#post58410852)

This is gold and so true. .

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413846#post58413846)

I'm sure he read it. He just disagrees with it. In all reality: The numbers just don't support "poker is a dying industry" but it's nice to hear other people's opinions now and then. Limon brought up a point about public games and what not but poker is played outside of just LA. There are lot of opportunities to play private games for high stakes in other metropolitan areas. At... See full post

Pretty silly take. The market can be shrinking while people still pay for products in said shrinking market. Programs like this are a big part of why the market is shrinking. I mean there's no question that in 2011 the online poker market in the US shrunk overnight and yet there were Americans paying for Poker Tracker and Huds. In fact shrinking is a much more accurate description of what's happening than dying. I mean seriously a product being sold that many people are using to cheat online and will be using to cheat live when computer power is faster isn't a point in favor of the game growing.

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414006#post58414006)

Pretty silly take.The market can be shrinking while people still pay for products in said shrinking market.Programs like this are a big part of why the market is shrinking.I mean there's no question that in 2011 the online poker market in the US shrunk overnight and yet there were Americans paying for Poker Tracker and Huds.In fact shrinking is a much more accurate description ... See full post

Yeah those products are more of a necessity in a shrinking market, if there was money raining from the sky you could just sit there and hold out a bucket. But shrinking is a better word than dying.

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413006#post58413006)

higher stakes public cash games are absolutely dying. this isn't even up for debate. There are a lot less of them than even 5 years ago and the game quality is much worse. And this is going to continue in the same direction.Now i would agree that lower stakes games and tournaments are doing very well.But how much money can people really make in low stakes games and what are mos... See full post

I know you go to parx… Not sure how you can say that high stakes public cash games are dying when at parx they’re spreading bigger and bigger games that never existed anywhere before like 50-50-100 and 100-100-200 plo4. In the past (8years ago) they struggled to get 5-5plo going. Holdem is dying but plo has only grown. There used to be a ton of 5-Tnl games everywhere and they have kind of gone the way of the dodo. So in some ways you and limon are right. Idk I think it’s cyclical and hard to gauge. Some days I feel like holdem is dying and the rooms look bleak and then a promo runs or a tournament series at borgata and everything is booming. The ebb and flow of poker action is hard to quantify. It’s also hard to compare to the old days because so many markets have been bifurcated.

by PokerEthics m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414032#post58414032)

I know you go to parx…Not sure how you can say that high stakes public cash games are dying when at parx they’re spreading bigger and bigger games that never existed anywhere before like 50-50-100 and 100-100-200 plo4.In the past (8years ago) they struggled to get 5-5plo going.Holdem is dying but plo has only grown. There used to be a ton of 5-Tnl games everywhere a... See full post

What? I don't remember them struggling to get 5/5 plo in 2016ish at all. You could be right though I wasn't there a ton back then. But by 2018 it went all the time. Oh and back then borgata had 5/5 every day, multiple games most days. 10/10 plo 2-3 days a week. And those are all dead games there now outside of this tournament series.Borgata will be a ghost town in 2 weeks when the series is over. And this series as far as cash games go is NOTHING compared to the series before covid. So Parx (which is extremely well run) stole Borgata's (which is run horribly) plo action and b/w the 2 places there is less 5/5 plo than there was combined in 2018. There is actually less 5/5 there than there was 3 years ago. It still goes mostly every day but after the reopening it was going literally every day for a year. Now on wed thurs and sunday it's hit or miss. About 50/50 to go on those days. Maybe a little more than 50/50 on Sunday. Monday it's rare.In 2021 i remember Thursdays with 3 games and they were great games.Even Monday would sometimes get 2 games. Pre covid there was a 5/5/10 (this was the game on the board) game on Sundays that would get 3-4 tables for a while. Right before covid hit it was down to 2 tables. That game doesn't exist anymore. that 50-50-100 game has gone consistently on Tuesdays only for a few months. the 200-200 plo went last week from late tues until wed night which was converted from that 50-50-100 game. Haven't seen it otherwise but i'm sure it's happened before. This game is also likely the biggest public game in the country outside of wsop. You are right about the ebbs and flows. Parx can get some massive games. But what I have noticed is once or twice a year big plo will go 2-3 times a week. When that happens some guys shot take from 5/5 etc. It lasts for about a month or so before people get absolutely wrecked then it goes away for a while. When it's just once a week it lasts way longer.

So you guys think someone in my shoes would do better in the long run by focusing on PLO instead of NLHE?

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414099#post58414099)

So you guys think someone in my shoes would do better in the long run by focusing on PLO instead of NLHE?

lol. focus on a real career in a growing industry. play poker as a kick ass hobby.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414112#post58414112)

lol. focus on a real career in a growing industry. play poker as a kick ass hobby.

Well, there is of course this route, too. I still have some other options available to me in life. And enough money to play a little as a hobby for now.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414099#post58414099)

So you guys think someone in my shoes would do better in the long run by focusing on PLO instead of NLHE?

Yes plo attracts gamblers and generally people w more money willing to risk it. Limons right about finding another revenue stream. Invest or work and play poker as a 2nd job. This is good advice for like 99% of poker players.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414099#post58414099)

So you guys think someone in my shoes would do better in the long run by focusing on PLO instead of NLHE?

If you can handle swings well yes.

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414204#post58414204)

If you can handle swings well yes.

Some people, pros even, can’t handle the swings

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413846#post58413846)

I'm sure he read it. He just disagrees with it. In all reality: The numbers just don't support "poker is a dying industry" but it's nice to hear other people's opinions now and then. Limon brought up a point about public games and what not but poker is played outside of just LA. There are lot of opportunities to play private games for high stakes in other metropolitan areas. At... See full post

LOL at GTOWizard being evidence of poker growing. I think when people talk about the game "growing", they mean in terms of opportunity. What world would you prefer, one where there's 10,000 poker players but you can sit at 5/T online and win 10 bb/100 with abc tight aggro play, or one where there's 50 million poker players but you literally need to study with software to beat 50nl for 3 bb. Everyone prefers the first situation. So EPT entries and stuff just aren't really important in that sense. The metric to care about in poker is "How much money could I realistically win". Not "how many new belarussians are 15 tabling the nightly 109$". In that sense, poker is certainly getting worse and will continue to get worse, accelerated by tools like GTO wizard which let anyone who actually wants to win money in poker do so. Even if big live games run, there are more pros than fish, which would be basically impossible 15 years ago. Private games are a different story. You have no idea who is cheating and how (not if), people stiffing, ass loads of rake, and jumping through hoops to even let you sit at the table or be invited back. I highly doubt there are more private games now than in the past.

by ScotchOnDaRocks m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414246#post58414246)

Some people, pros even, can’t handle the swings

Euro rounders

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414259#post58414259)

Euro rounders

Wired aces or kings? No JT98ds “Yeah that will work too”

by mapletreeway m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414249#post58414249)

LOL at GTOWizard being evidence of poker growing.I think when people talk about the game "growing", they mean in terms of opportunity. What world would you prefer, one where there's 10,000 poker players but you can sit at 5/T online and win 10 bb/100 with abc tight aggro play, or one where there's 50 million poker players but you literally need to study with software to beat 50... See full post

All of this. And lmao@ the bolded.

You get hired by HSP to produce the next season. You can invite anyone in the world you want and they will accept. Who do you get to make the best poker game and what is the format/stakes? Edit: You can't play because who would play in a game they are producing/setting up?

Limon,

1. When golfing, how do you determine when to give putts? How do you deal with people that are constantly asking “you want to see this?”
2. Have you been to Bandon Dunes? If so, what’s your favorite course there. (No wrong answer imo)
3. Favorite IPA?
4. Hear me out on this one. I know you like Biden a lot, but wouldn’t it be best for our country if he didn’t run for re-election due to his age? (I think he’s an honorable guy and has been a great public servant) It would be so refreshing for the country if we could have two choices for president that are each about 30 years younger. I feel like the only reason Biden is running is because people think he’s the only person who can beat Trump, or else why is he still there? Thanks! Tbone

by TheTbone m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414847#post58414847)

4. Hear me out on this one. I know you like Biden a lot, but wouldn’t it be best for our country if he didn’t run for re-election due to his age? (I think he’s an honorable guy and has been a great public servant) It would be so refreshing for the country if we could have two choices for president that are each about 30 years younger. I feel like the only reas... See full post

Newsome is not ready yet. He wins for fun in 2028. Biden is our only chance in 2024..

We were talking about software and coaching prices (or at least, I was): RunItOnce is going up to $199/mo starting Feb 1. Wizard is $150 for the full product. These prices are just on roids. $200/mo for a training site?

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414204#post58414204)

If you can handle swings well yes.

I still have a horrible mental game. I'm not ready for greater swings than NLHE has to offer.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58415188#post58415188)

I still have a horrible mental game. I'm not ready for greater swings than NLHE has to offer.

in live poker especially bc the pace is so slow mental game matters so much. give me the guy who plays reasonably well all the time over the player with a much better A game who tilts.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58415187#post58415187)

We were talking about software and coaching prices (or at least, I was): RunItOnce is going up to $199/mo starting Feb 1. Wizard is $150 for the full product. These prices are just on roids. $200/mo for a training site?

I don’t get paying RIO $200 a month just so you can watch videos made by Justin Bonomo or Jeremy Ausmus Every few years or so I used to roll in and join for a month to watch whatever mixed game videos were on there but probably not any more

by jinz3rd m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414660#post58414660)

who would play in a game they are producing/setting up?

Nick Vertucci

If you had a okay job, and +25.000€ roll, would you play live 5/5 limpers plo, or just gamble some online satellites to high-stakes Omaha and Mixed MTTs every now and then?

I enjoy online more

Hi limon. A couple of golf questions I don't remember being asked. Favorite courses outside of LA or Vegas? And what would you pay for a chance to play at Augusta (assuming you haven't ofc)?

Have you ever had prolonged stretches of run bad that made you question if you’d continue playing? Have you witnessed any players who you thought were truly great who were unable to overcome similar variance since live poker is so slow?

by TheTbone m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413834#post58413834)

Limon! Thank you for this thread. We’ve been waiting for something like this ever since #2000. What are your thoughts on the future of the PGA Tour and LIV? LIV getting Rahm is a game changer imo. The PGAT is going to have to let these guys play both tours, and anyone in PGAT leadership that says Rahm can’t play in their events should be fired.

Ive tried to watch LIV and its unwatchable for me and TBH this battle has made even regular tour events sort of unwatchable. whether pro athletes care or not doesnt matter, they need to at least pretend they care, this is where the drama comes from. massive money grabs from saudi murderers and top pga pros blatantly saying 80% of the events dont matter at all to them and they phone it in is very bad for the sport and will start to kill golf. it could just be the "5" majors on pay per view (id prob pay for riviera as well if i wasn't attending). the fedex cup is ok but sort of flawed. starting with different scores is dumb. what they should do is let the top 10 in the world play thursday, the top 20 friday and the whole field (30) on the weekend. that way you had to "earn it on the field", the top 10 would get a head start but if you shot over par on Thursday, well, youre **** out of luck, would be a lot of story lines. the bottom 10 would only play the weekend so they'd have to go LOW to win. networks would get a lot more coverage of the top 10 in the world and there would be a **** ton of story lines. a team event "season" maybe 3 months of team play with 8 teams of 5 (top 40 in the world) with a round robin for seeding then an elimination bracket would be cool. but having stupid teams like the "BIRDIE MEN" v. the "19th HOLERS" is moronic. The teams should be like formula 1/nascar and be named after the clubs they use (in racing its the car manufacturers). people would have a rooting interest for team taylor made or callaway if they used those clubs. the winner would also sell a lot of clubs and could release branded clubs based on winning the "cup" or whatever. basically golf should pay me a lot of money for ideas.

by Starks Pizzeria m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413954#post58413954)

This is one of the best posts in this thread. Unfortunately it is accurate

sad but true...

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58416030#post58416030)

Ive tried to watch LIV and its unwatchable for me and TBH this battle has made even regular tour events sort of unwatchable. whether pro athletes care or not doesnt matter, they need to at least pretend they care, this is where the drama comes from. massive money grabs from saudi murderers and top pga pros blatantly saying 80% of the events dont matter at all to them and they p... See full post

That idea about the fedex cup is actually brilliant. Implement that format along with a new course and you’d be cooking with gas. East Lake is kind of boring where all the holes look the same.

by Parasense m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58415558#post58415558)

If you had a okay job, and +25.000€ roll, would you play live 5/5 limpers plo, or just gamble some online satellites to high-stakes Omaha and Mixed MTTs every now and then?

I enjoy online more

2/2 is limpers plo. 5/5 has less people seeing flops and more people raising and 3 betting pre without aces.

by jinz3rd m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414660#post58414660)

You get hired by HSP to produce the next season. You can invite anyone in the world you want and they will accept. Who do you get to make the best poker game and what is the format/stakes? Edit: You can't play because who would play in a game they are producing/setting up?

Well, 1st of all the show would never be on Hustler, I couldn't trust their security and wouldn't put my guests in that situation, this isn't sour grapes or hating from me. The literal owner of the site, mr. feldman, said, quote, there was a 40% chance garret was cheated by robbi. why would anyone on earth play on a stream where the owner says its basically a coin flip that you'll be cheated out of 6 figures? I would probably produce the show myself so I was comfortable with security and production. The dream lineup would have very few pro poker players but would need to have at least one. one famous poker pro puts people at ease and provides a "measuring stick" and a lot of conversation. whether the top pro is winning big or losing big it attracts a lot of attention. so lets start there: Since you cant dig up doyle (or can we) it has to be Ivey, he is well known and universally respected, he can sort of be a dull sad sack on shows hes not interested in but when he is around people he respects he is a really interesting character. also, im not lookng for entertainment from "the pro" in a dream lineup im looking for the veneer of legitimacy and ivey provides that in spades. The rest of the lineup should be a who's who of interesting characters but they all need to play poker and/or gamble seriously. you cant just say, "duh taylor swift" people who dont know or care about the game ruin shows. the drama comes from everyone CARING. and being COMPETITIVE. So #1 draft pick...easiest ever: Michael Jordan. GOAT degenerate. #2 need a billionaire, and not that asperger bitch elon. gates and buffet both play poker. I'll take Buffet, he also fulfills the OMC requirement. #3 enough movies about this guy gambling so you gotta have Toby Maguire #4 you need a massive douche affliction/ed hardy guy so dan bilzarian #5 street smart chick Molly Bloom #6/#7 a little drama with two famous degens at each others throats Phil Mickleson and Billy Walters #8 You need a crazian so **** it KIM JONG UN ROUNDS IT OUT!!!! It would have to be predominantly NLH, but wed throw in a plo DBBP on dealer changes. The stakes dont need to be crazy big, just big enough that its embarrassing to lose. most of these people dont give a **** about a million bucks but its still embarrassing to lose it because everyone who's watching cares a lot about that much money including many of their family and friends. the embarrassment and competitive nature is what drives the dramatic action and not comedy buy ins of a billion or something. $100-200-400 nl min $100k buy in would be fine. (molly would need a stake prob, could bring in tilly if necessary)

right now at this exact moment, how much annual revenue would it require for you to become a sex worker?

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58416086#post58416086)

right now at this exact moment, how much annual revenue would it require for you to become a sex worker?

maybe im a sex worker now, i just have zero clients. want to make an indecent proposal?

He does

rip limon's inbox

What hair products do you use? How often do you clean the shower drain? Do you blow dry your hair?

RIP Limon. Fly high with Matthew Perry

Alright Limon lets get the point of view of an euro. I played the hotel side nlhe games quite a bit at CC. A beautiful game where limps were casually isolated with chips of hundred. You apex predator? Right. Maybe your great grandfather was one when he inseminated your mother. Rest of the story is just an addict that had money handed over to him. I saw you maybe once or twice on the hotel side. Usually you were hanging out among other peasants on the low stakes side playing some measly plo game (with a sick rakeback deal!!). Fact is that if you would have entered our game we would have taken turns on your fat ass with the spanish guys. Ofcourse only after these random millionaires were ready sucking our dicks dry. American regs were always considered soft. They had gotten rich in this insanely soft environment. Even a monkey can excel if you hand it a machine gun. Nowadays most of these guys would not stand a chance if they had to start from zero. But yeah on a more serious note sure euros are/were super bad for the game. We would come to LA and do nothing else than play poker. Maybe go to the gym but just to gain some EV at the table. 300-400h months were not unheard of. I remember this one guy that had played 24/7 for months sitting at the table with earplugs and noise cancelling headphones on to be in complete silence. Others shared beds in the casino hotel to minimize costs, sleep in turns etc. Some would take a taxi from the airport to the casino, stay on the premises for a month and fly back home. Some pretty sick stuff. Fun for a while but definitely not sustainable in the long run. Luckily my dirt rich grandfather died during covid so I don’t have to worry about money anymore. I cant help to feel sorry for these euro regs that are now in their 30s, far from being set for life and have no education or other means to make money than poker. The glory of playing 24/7 has faded out. Would be nice to have a life. But no either you play some very tough games online with a variance shooting through the roof or you move to one of the “poker hubs” in europe to play live. Even here the biggest games are private and you need to suck someone dry to get a seat. I guess the best bet would be to marry an american girl and grind in the new world. Im pretty sure it would still be very easy to make 100k+ in the states playing live poker.

when will these idiots realize that limon is playing a much bigger poker game than their little myopic brains can imagine. that rake you paid...i rubbed it on my titties.

by King_of_NYC m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58415765#post58415765)

Hi limon. A couple of golf questions I don't remember being asked. Favorite courses outside of LA or Vegas? And what would you pay for a chance to play at Augusta (assuming you haven't ofc)?

St. Andrews

Id pay a large but not crazy amount, maybe $2000. Im generally not overwhelmed by courses. my fav course in america is prob Old Mac at Bandon dunes. its a pretty simple, rustic, course but you can wander around and hit strange shots there for days. by TheTbone m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414847#post58414847)

Limon,1. When golfing, how do you determine when to give putts? How do you deal with people that are constantly asking “you want to see this?”2. Have you been to Bandon Dunes? If so, what’s your favorite course there. (No wrong answer imo)3. Favorite IPA?4. Hear me out on this one. I know you like Biden a lot, but wouldn’t it be best for our country if he didn’t run for re-elec... See full post

1. with serious gamblers we just use "inside the leather" of a designated putter. solves all disputes. With recreational gamblers i just give them everything up until the point im gonna lose!!!
2. many many times, if i have to meet someone back in oregon its always at bandon dunes. old mac
3. its just pliny. its always pliny.
4. an incumbent quitting is virtually unheard of and never works out. the power of incumbency is much stronger than a POSSIBLE younger or better candidate. Biden is doing a great job by any measure and he should sail to reelection once people start to see the alternative is chaos and fascism.

by Parasense m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58415558#post58415558)

If you had a okay job, and +25.000€ roll, would you play live 5/5 limpers plo, or just gamble some online satellites to high-stakes Omaha and Mixed MTTs every now and then?

I enjoy online more

i think you answered your own question.

by TheTbone m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58416048#post58416048)

That idea about the fedex cup is actually brilliant. Implement that format along with a new course and you’d be cooking with gas. East Lake is kind of boring where all the holes look the same.

thank you kind sir! ya, they should play it at liberty national or something. it looks great on TV and has giant crowds.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58416235#post58416235)

rip limon's inbox

double entendre?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58416084#post58416084)

... #6/#7 a little drama with two famous degens at each others throats Phil Mickleson and Billy Walters...

appreciate the historic reference. You are definitely OG

1. Best vacation you’ve been on and why?
2. Favorite Tiger Woods moment from his career. I’ll always remember the chip in on #16 in 2005 and the 2019 Masters?
3. Does a caterpillar know it’s going to be a butterfly or does it build the cocoon without knowing what’s going to happen?

by holymountain m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58415880#post58415880)

Have you ever had prolonged stretches of run bad that made you question if you’d continue playing? Have you witnessed any players who you thought were truly great who were unable to overcome similar variance since live poker is so slow?

1. Ive had months of run bad in giant games, it was brutal i lost 6 figs to the worst player in the game who everyone else was making their entire year off of. someone has to be that guy i suppose, i didn't think about quitting but i did move down in stakes. you gotta know when to say when.
2. probably but its impossible to know, when you see snippets of someone getting crushed and quitting you never think "that guy was really great". The % of great players that run bad for so long they quit is a tiny %. The opposite is far more noticeable, a guy who sucks who crushes the game for a while maybe even a year or more. Ive seen this many times, questioned whether they knew something everyone else didn't, or were cheating, decided "no" on both and in every instance that player was broke sooner or later.

by Gzesh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58416735#post58416735)

appreciate the historic reference. You are definitely OG

Have you apologized yet for trying to get this thread shut down and then lying about it? If not, fukk all the way off.

How bout them cowboys limon

Abe, thank you for doing this thread. I always appreciate your thoughts and humor. Question for you: what are your thoughts on when a fish asks you to show your cards? Recently a guy kept hounding me at the table, and I just kind of kept ignoring it, but at a certain point it started to bother me (not once did I ask to see his cards lol).

I always tell them to tip the dealer $5 and I'll show. Adjust your amount to your desire to keep it secret.

Mr. Limon would you grind micros and build a roll or just save and hop into a regular live game... I've been trying to grind micros and feel like it's possible but am debating just getting a car before the summer and grinding uber or something for a couple months and switching it up to play live. I feel like I'm a good player and have been successful at certain points but grinding micros is messing me up.. I'm leaning towards working up a roll than going back to live play. What do you think? Thanks

What percentage of actual winning poker players do you think commit felony tax evasion?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401004#post58401004)

if you want better questions, ask better questions, be the change you want to see. limon is the world intergender wrestling champion.

I just switched a wrestling PPV @ the Palms. Where were you? 😀

by Kanedog11 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58416278#post58416278)

What hair products do you use? How often do you clean the shower drain? Do you blow dry your hair?

I just use soap. Whatever is free from hotels. I’ve never actually bought soap in my life that I can remember. Ask my maids. I do nothing to my hair.

Hi Limon, Big fan of yours as you know, and you have great hair 😀 You have a great attitude who doesn’t get phased by anyone …… How do you deal with everyone 1) not care about people you don’t agree with and 2) in a job where everyone can leave it to you, how do you tell everyone to get involved and do it themselves

I feel like it’s pretty unfair to compare the WSOP to the Kentucky Derby. The Derby is one day, but the WSOP runs multiple tournaments every single day for two months, and also generates enough audience to float long simultaneous tournament serieses at several other Vegas casinos. It’s not just the Main Event that setting attendance records. It’s many other events at a wide range of buy-in levels, often for games that are otherwise almost completely dead like Razz. A serious player at any stake can easily play a more profitable tournament schedule during the two months of the WSOP than they do during the rest of the year combined.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58418795#post58418795)

I just use soap. Whatever is free from hotels. I’ve never actually bought soap in my life that I can remember. Ask my maids. I do nothing to my hair.

That’s amazing if true. I’m not even being sarcastic or smart ass.

by TheTbone m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58417824#post58417824)

1. Best vacation you’ve been on and why?

2. Favorite Tiger Woods moment from his career. I’ll always remember the chip in on #16 in 2005 and the 2019 Masters?

3. Does a caterpillar know it’s going to be a butterfly or does it build the cocoon without knowing what’s going to happen?

4. I don’t really like vacations that much. I’ve been around the world and all over the US. Los Angeles is basically best place in earth. Everything you find around the world you find at the same quality in Los Angeles. That said, pro tip: Portugal is better than Spain at half the cost. There’s zero reason to ever go to Spain.

5. Better than most, better than most!!!

6. Wild question. Lol. I’ll give it my best guess. Caterpillars don’t know much, doubt they even have a brain, but insects like that do figure things out and change their behavior based on changes in their surroundings. So on some level they do notice things. So if you’re a caterpillar, that can notice things, you definitely have noticed all your buddies turning into butterflies. No caterpillar, or anyone else, knows the future but they have an inkling of what’s coming I’d guess.

by gelato m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58418343#post58418343)

Abe, thank you for doing this thread. I always appreciate your thoughts and humor. Question for you: what are your thoughts on when a fish asks you to show your cards? Recently a guy kept hounding me at the table, and I just kind of kept ignoring it, but at a certain point it started to bother me (not once did I ask to see his cards lol).

I generally let fish get away with murder. Even flipping my hand over. You can use it to your advantage in the future. Just make it clear to the fish that he “owes you one”. You can get him to show you a card during the hand or something really +ev. They don’t care. Other players seeing you hand is fine. It usually hurts them because they think your play against the fish is how you play against them.

by IntheFold m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58418438#post58418438)

Mr. Limon would you grind micros and build a roll or just save and hop into a regular live game... I've been trying to grind micros and feel like it's possible but am debating just getting a car before the summer and grinding uber or something for a couple months and switching it up to play live. I feel like I'm a good player and have been successful at certain points but grind... See full post

This has been answered a few times in this thread in more detail. Basically, get on a career path, play as big as you possibly can with your extra money. Reassess when you inevitably go on a sun run. You’ll be amazed at how much your life has progressed while not grinding micros or caring about getting hours in at pointless poker games.

Great thread Limon! Right before the pandemic hit Billy (DGAF) promised that he would set up a Korean BBQ dinner with you, but sadly it never materialized. I hope that this may still happen someday. Your interviews with him for his podcast at the Commerce were awesome. All your drinks are on me! Here are some questions for you: (1) What will both the cash game and tournament poker scene look like in 10 years? (2) Do you think studying poker makes a substantive difference to doing well in live cash games? (3) What is the best Korean BBQ in LA? (4) What is the best sushi in LA? I used to love the original Sushi Nozawa in Studio City before Nozawa retired and the Sugarfish franchise opened up. Sugarfish is still pretty good though. (5) Favorite scotch? (6) It seems like you do care about health since you noted that getting sick is awful (which is true). Do you exercise at all? It seems like that's one thing that really can make a difference to long-term health. (7) Do you read books? If so, what kind? Any recommendations? (8) Have you used Chat GPT? Any thoughts on what AI will be able to offer us in 10 years?

by Kanedog11 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58419271#post58419271)

That’s amazing if true. I’m not even being sarcastic or smart ass.

what makes soap clean stuff is a chemical which breaks the surface tension on water regular water prefers not to penetrate things but instead stick to itself in a central blob - hence the common grade school science project of putting water drops on pennies

if you dropped a smidgeon of soap on that penny the water bubble on top would instantly break and the water would spill all over likewise, if you had some ducks swimming in your kiddy pool and you dumped a lot of soap in there the ducks would sink because a lot of things that float, such as ducks, float due to the water surfact tension so everything from laundry detergent to dishwasher fluid to hand soap to shampoo to body wash all cleans you using that exact same process as a result they are entirely interchangeable you can wash your dishes with shampoo, you can clean your toilet with body wash, etc etc obviously, those products are all slightly different in their additives - but the active cleaning ingredient is all that same chemical combo which breaks down water tension and most the difference between stuff is just texture/fragrance of the additives many people use soap to wash their hair

by Kanedog11 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58419271#post58419271)

That’s amazing if true. I’m not even being sarcastic or smart ass.

100% true.

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58418682#post58418682)

I just switched a wrestling PPV @ the Palms. Where were you? 😀 ... See full post

I’m barred from the palms.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421655#post58421655)

100% true.

Good morning. I've actually been watching some of your appearances on podcasts via youtube last night and today. You simply can't please everyone in anything but I see why you're so popular and people respect you. I've never heard anyone talk about the game of poker out loud like you do. Very enlightening. And you've directly given me some great advice in this very thread so, thank you very much.

by floatingtheriver m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58418473#post58418473)

What percentage of actual winning poker players do you think commit felony tax evasion?

None obv. Poker players and gamblers in general are very careful tax payers. That’s my final answer.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421203#post58421203)

what makes soap clean stuff is a chemical which breaks the surface tension on water regular water prefers not to penetrate things but instead stick to itself in a central blob - hence the common grade school science project of putting water drops on pennies if you dropped a smidgeon of soap on that penny the water bubble on top would instantly break and the water would spill a... See full post

I’m gonna save this to show it to the next person (usually women) who calls me weird because I don’t keep hand soap at my kitchen sink. I just use the dish soap pump. I’ve been saying its all the same **** for years.

by Gillingham m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58418875#post58418875)

Hi Limon, Big fan of yours as you know, and you have great hair 😀 You have a great attitude who doesn’t get phased by anyone …… How do you deal with everyone 1) not care about people you don’t agree with and 2) in a job where everyone can leave it to you, how do you tell everyone to get involved and do it themselves

I care about people I don’t agree with if they are successful and respectful. If they are broke loser internet stalkers I just use them as my toys. To be successful you have to be self motivated. No one can tell anyone to be motivated. That’s why I say if you are buying coaching to beat mid/small games you have basically no chance of success. Everything you need to know, and far more, is available for free and anyone who is self motivated would laugh at someone who needs to pay for this info and have it aggregated and spoon fed to them. A motivated player will actually ENJOY figuring this stuff out because the benefits of the journey are tremendous. 20 years ago you prob needed to pay but now it’s just for lazy asses who are going to fail.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421663#post58421663)

None obv. Poker players and gamblers in general are very careful tax payers. That’s my final answer.

Duly noted.

I was playing golf with Limon last year and he cracked his second beer on the 1st hole. Me "You are up to two on this hole?" Limon "It is a par five, isn't it?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421906#post58421906)

I care about people I don’t agree with if they are successful and respectful. If they are broke loser internet stalkers I just use them as my toys. To be successful you have to be self motivated. No one can tell anyone to be motivated. That’s why I say if you are buying coaching to beat mid/small games you have basically no chance of success. Everything you need to know, and f... See full post

If hiring a coach is a bad idea why every professional sports team on the world has one? Some leaks are too hard to see by yourself alone. I think very few (probably 2% of the population) will be capable of fine tuning their strategy to perfection whithout hearing feedback from someone better.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421906#post58421906)

I care about people I don’t agree with if they are successful and respectful. If they are broke loser internet stalkers I just use them as my toys. To be successful you have to be self motivated. No one can tell anyone to be motivated. That’s why I say if you are buying coaching to beat mid/small games you have basically no chance of success. Everything you need to know, and f... See full post

I mentioned this before but that's exactly what makes RIO doubling their prices from $99 to $199 for the monthly elite so pronounced. So, it now costs more than GTOWizard, elite. And Peter Clarke and others are selling coaching packages and video series for over $1,000 USD. It's crazy. But, you clearly explain why this is the case in one of your podcasts. They're not making the money playing poker anymore so they need to up their prices for coaching/whatever they do.

by 420legalize420 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58422013#post58422013)

If hiring a coach is a bad idea why every professional sports team on the world has one?

Are you a professional sports team?

by 420legalize420 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58422013#post58422013)

If hiring a coach is a bad idea why every professional sports team on the world has one? Some leaks are too hard to see by yourself alone. I think very few (probably 2% of the population) will be capable of fine tuning their strategy to perfection whithout hearing feedback from someone better.

terrible analogy a coach of a sports team is mostly about management - same way someone manages a mcdonalds yes he will help assist with training talent but so does the manager of a mcdonalds fwiw i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with doug here, i have no position on this matter - just that your example of refutation doesn't hold water the natural human condition of when a large group is together is for someone to take charge and herd all the cats - this is true for everything from government to classrooms to offices to baseball teams

by 420legalize420 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58422013#post58422013)

If hiring a coach is a bad idea why every professional sports team on the world has one? Some leaks are too hard to see by yourself alone. I think very few (probably 2% of the population) will be capable of fine tuning their strategy to perfection whithout hearing feedback from someone better.

horrible analogy. multi tabling micro stakes online or beating 5-5nl live is NOT a professional sports team. its the equivalent of a middle school sports team coached by the biology teacher. Yes, if you are playing super high rollers specialized coaching is probably a necessity, like a professional athlete. I was never talking about that and made it clear.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421659#post58421659)

I’m barred from the palms.

Its under new management (indian). Wonder if that carries over.

by Richard Kim m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421030#post58421030)

Great thread Limon! Right before the pandemic hit Billy (DGAF) promised that he would set up a Korean BBQ dinner with you, but sadly it never materialized. I hope that this may still happen someday. Your interviews with him for his podcast at the Commerce were awesome. All your drinks are on me! Here are some questions for you: (1) What will both the cash game and tournament po... See full post

ya, me and billy were supposed to meet up for a podcast recently but it fell through, my fault, casino politics stuff i shouldn't care about but somehow still do. im 100% in for KBBQ though. let me know!!!

1. tournaments will be around the same, fish, smartly, love small tournaments. they are basically "pro free" they take a long time and offer some glimmer of a big payday. Public Cash games will continue to get tougher smaller and fewer and the rake will only go up. If you want to make an upper middle class income as a pro poker player you will need to follow casino grand openings and state law changes around for small boomlets and boomtowns (like texas was and largely still is in places but cooling off quick). Public Online poker is largely dead and gone in 10 years, you build a bot to go against their bot. Or youre on webcam doing retinal scans proving your existence every 10 min until AI figures out how to fake that as well.
2. it depends on how big your player pool is, you need to study a lot more to live in vegas and play 5-10 than you do to live in los angeles. Vegas has tons of randoms/vacationers and you need to know what their baseline playing style is, "what the kids are into". Los angeles is 90% the exact same regs and regfish every day. 100% of your time should be studying them only. I haven't read a single line of poker strat in over a decade id guess. Ive played around with solvers just to see what was up and found them pointless, for me, in a 30 person player pool.
3. I went to soowon galbi recently and it was very very good. charcoal bbq.
4. I haven't been to expensive sushi in a while, the last great one i remember is Q.
5. I dont drink scotch, i have an ardbeg 13 i got 20 years ago so i guess its an ardbeg 33? thats how slow i drink scotch. Dont get me around pappy van winkle though!
6. only golf. it can be pretty good exercise, at times. lol
7. i haven't read a book since super/system in 1998 probably. seems like an inefficient way to get information for me.
8. Ive messed around with it and others. at some point it will just be "implanted" to some extent i suppose. Its like having a second brain that just remembers everything thats ever happened/is happening in the history of the world. cant beat that. There are some people that dont really want to know things (MAGA christian types) wont effect them much, they will become more and more like the cultish luddite dipshits they already are, just more evil. Progressive humanity will make AI its new slave. so kids making nikes in bangladesh have that to look forward to.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421662#post58421662)

Good morning. I've actually been watching some of your appearances on podcasts via youtube last night and today. You simply can't please everyone in anything but I see why you're so popular and people respect you. I've never heard anyone talk about the game of poker out loud like you do. Very enlightening. And you've directly given me some great advice in this very thread so, t... See full post

thanks buddy! if theres a video you specifically liked feel free to post it here. others might be interested.

by Turdzilla m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58422008#post58422008)

I was playing golf with Limon last year and he cracked his second beer on the 1st hole. Me "You are up to two on this hole?" Limon "It is a par five, isn't it?

I haven't drank on the golf course in many many years, i cant even remember when. when im golfing i golf, when im drinking i drink.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58422777#post58422777)

thanks buddy! if theres a video you specifically liked feel free to post it here. others might be interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmDpbU7H... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmDpbU7HNP0) I saw this yesterday and it was just incredibly eye opening. Serious hobbyist, invisible antes, the Poker Industrial Complex, etc: This drastically changed the way I look at poker and gambling in general. http://www.highrollerradio.net/limon-pok... (http://www.highrollerradio.net/limon-poker-interview.html) Also a great read.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58422776#post58422776)

5. I dont drink scotch, i have an ardbeg 13 i got 20 years ago so i guess its an ardbeg 33? thats how slow i drink scotch. Dont get me around pappy van winkle though!

FYI, it's still an Ardbeg 13. Years only count spent in the barrel, not spent in the bottle. You might have been being sarcastic in which case I apologize, but actually more than a few people make that mistake (especially non-scotch-drinkers), so who knows.

Hi limon. What's the craziest prop bet you've ever made?

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58422423#post58422423)

Its under new management (indian). Wonder if that carries over.

I will have to test that!!!

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58422814#post58422814)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmDpbU7H... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmDpbU7HNP0) I saw this yesterday and it was just incredibly eye opening. Serious hobbyist, invisible antes, the Poker Industrial Complex, etc: This drastically changed the way I look at poker and gambling in general. http://www.highrollerradio.net/limon-pok... (http://www.highrollerradio.net/limon-poker-interview.html) Also a great read.

i totally forgot about that high roller radio interview...I came in hot!!! "Q: Well, Cate Hall was just named ‘Female Player of the Year.’ LIMON: Yes, that and three bucks will get you a cup of coffee."

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58423013#post58423013)

FYI, it's still an Ardbeg 13. Years only count spent in the barrel, not spent in the bottle. You might have been being sarcastic in which case I apologize, but actually more than a few people make that mistake (especially non-scotch-drinkers), so who knows.

I KNOW! lol. I was just making a goofy joke. that said, a scotch loving friend of mine said it was the peteyest smokiest scotch he had ever tasted so maybe it does something in the bottle over 20 years.

Soowon is very good, although it's been many years since I was there. I had thought you were a scotch drinker at some point because I thought I saw you drinking a scotch-like drink at the Bike but I guess it must have been bourbon. Never had Pappy myself—just too damn expensive. I wonder when just Siri get to a point that I could use it as a reliable assistant to record thoughts, book flights, schedule meetings quickly, etc. I think having something like Jarvis would be really cool and helpful. The fact that cash games will get worse in ten years sounds right but doesn't make me happy. I'm hoping to play more poker then... Maybe I'll also just end up playing tournaments for fun. I don't live in LA anymore (live near Chicago now) and with kids I have a hard time visiting LA (where my parents still live). But I will start visiting more frequently in a few years. I will definitely get in touch with Billy and try to see if you are up for Korean BBQ next time I'm in town!

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58423890#post58423890)

i totally forgot about that high roller radio interview...I came in hot!!! "Q: Well, Cate Hall was just named ‘Female Player of the Year.’ LIMON: Yes, that and three bucks will get you a cup of coffee."

I was really glad to see your rant starting at 29:30, that describes me to a T. Love the thread but I always was a bit bothered by you describing poster as dead/dying, because I just don't see it that way, as the games I play in are populated, active, fun, and I make a few bucks as a two-day a week hobby while I get actual real money and fulfillment elsewhere. But your statements in that clip helped clarify, that my games/experience are not what you are talking about, you are comparing to the heyday of live pro higher stakes LA poker pretty much, with which I have no experience. "It's a social club...PLUS MONEY!!!" as you said. which is exactly how I approach it. Watch some ball on the TV, shoot the ****, have a few drinks, and pull in an extra few grand cash per year. Well said.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58423894#post58423894)

I KNOW! lol. I was just making a goofy joke. that said, a scotch loving friend of mine said it was the peteyest smokiest scotch he had ever tasted so maybe it does something in the bottle over 20 years.

Ardbeg, a high-end Islay, is pretty frakkin' peaty/smokey

by Hardball47 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58423705#post58423705)

Hi limon. What's the craziest prop bet you've ever made?

Any crazy shyt I did was when I was young and prob just on a dare. Prob should have died or went to jail a few times. When you’re a known gambler your friends will say **** like “I’ll bet you $100 I can XXX (eat a dog turd or whatever) but I was never into it. Just basically paying people to do stupid shyt. The craziest bet will never stop being fukking MAGA morons betting trump would be president weeks and months after the election was over. Because these were BIG bets and these trump fuktards are like the dumbest people ever born. It was beyond mind boggling. Still is.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58424209#post58424209)

Any crazy shyt I did was when I was young and prob just on a dare. Prob should have died or went to jail a few times. When you’re a known gambler your friends will say **** like “I’ll bet you $100 I can XXX (eat a dog turd or whatever) but I was never into it. Just basically paying people to do stupid shyt. The craziest bet will never stop being fukking MAGA morons betting tru... See full post

Did they all pay up?

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58424021#post58424021)

I was really glad to see your rant starting at 29:30, that describes me to a T. Love the thread but I always was a bit bothered by you describing poster as dead/dying, because I just don't see it that way, as the games I play in are populated, active, fun, and I make a few bucks as a two-day a week hobby while I get actual real money and fulfillment elsewhere. But your statem... See full post

He's saying it's not a career anymore. Not that poker is dead, or unprofitable, or that you won't make any money. You're just not making enough money now so that it would justify the time, energy, heartbreak, and cash you would have to go through to play full time. Week in, week out. I don't think there's any questioning what the best route for players is today: Play. Play as much as you want and at as high of stakes as you want. But have a separate, solid stream of passive and/or active income so that you know you don't have to depend on that next card to pay your rent or put food on the table. You're still allowed to bink a tournament or go on a sun run in cash games. It's just really rational, mature, sound advice for anyone putting time into the game here in now 2024 (!). He simply says the quiet parts out loud and exposes what he calls the Poker Industrial Complex for what it is.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58423890#post58423890)

i totally forgot about that high roller radio interview...I came in hot!!! "Q: Well, Cate Hall was just named ‘Female Player of the Year.’ LIMON: Yes, that and three bucks will get you a cup of coffee."

"You see it everyday; people bust out, people on the rail, people begging for money, people scamming. You’ve got that stupid ****ing poker awards, that you mentioned earlier, where a bunch of pimps and hoes show up to pat each other on the back and ask each other for the money they’re due. " hhaha so true. meanwhile cate hall was actually trash at poker, broke playing on stake and has long since quit. but oh wait she got an award lmao.

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58424255#post58424255)

Did they all pay up?

no. i collected about 85% over time. trump voters are somewhere between criminal and criminally stupid (just like their leader). They lack basic logic and reasoning skills and are unmoored from any ethical center. Trying to explain to unethical re+ards who couldn't pass 1st grade civics that trump had lost and he wasn't coming back proved i was the most patient man on earth. The things i wont do for money (that i will never spend).

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58424260#post58424260)

He's saying it's not a career anymore. Not that poker is dead, or unprofitable, or that you won't make any money. You're just not making enough money now so that it would justify the time, energy, heartbreak, and cash you would have to go through to play full time. Week in, week out. I don't think there's any questioning what the best route for players is today: Play. Play as m... See full post

nice synopsis!

by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58424290#post58424290)

"You see it everyday; people bust out, people on the rail, people begging for money, people scamming. You’ve got that stupid ****ing poker awards, that you mentioned earlier, where a bunch of pimps and hoes show up to pat each other on the back and ask each other for the money they’re due. "hhaha so true. meanwhile cate hall was actually trash at poker, broke playing on stake a... See full post

I had totally forgot that interview existed from like 7 years ago but i gotta admit...my takes stand the test of time!!!

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58424964#post58424964)

nice synopsis!

Thank you for laying it out the way you did. This thread has been hugely beneficial for me. At first it was nostalgia and sadness over legitimately having missed the boom. Then it was acceptance. Then it was trying to see what the game's roll actually is currently since so many people are still playing for so much money. By understanding exactly where poker fits in my life - and for what purpose - I have a lot more clarity and focus during my day to day lately. And developing the mindset necessary to absorb gambling losses and swings is turning me into a far more stoic and profitable person off the tables, too. Capable of actually using my intellect when making decisions instead of my emotions. Enjoy the rest of the weekend! edit: The analogy you drew between the WSOP and the Kentucky Derby was really interesting/eye opening, too. Definitely haven't heard that perspective on it before but it's obviously accurate.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58424260#post58424260)

He's saying it's not a career anymore. Not that poker is dead, or unprofitable, or that you won't make any money. You're just not making enough money now so that it would justify the time, energy, heartbreak, and cash you would have to go through to play full time. Week in, week out. I don't think there's any questioning what the best route for players is today: Play. Play as m... See full post

You speak truth.

Limon, who are some of your past poker friends who became Trumptards and now you can no longer be as friendly with them as you were before you knew?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58312283#post58312283)

learn every game that is spread around you at decent stakes, pay very close attention to the rake in private games, if you make the game better know your value and never pay rake. always be looking for ways to take the bets and not make the bets. poker is active income and wont always be that fun (if youre not aspergers). looking at red and black rectangles is a pointless waste... See full post

Was advised long ago to "Be the House!" I tried buying in with George Hardie when the government was trying to off it. I had 1% if we got the deal. We were actually the high bidder but they turned us down because of George's past affilitation with the previous ownership. Next I tried hard for a couple of years to get a poker license in the San Fernando Valley in L.A. I had a good location in a city that welcomed me, but the state quit issuing licenses after giving out six more in other areas. After that just stuck to real estate.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58424451#post58424451)

no. i collected about 85% over time. trump voters are somewhere between criminal and criminally stupid (just like their leader). They lack basic logic and reasoning skills and are unmoored from any ethical center. Trying to explain to unethical re+ards who couldn't pass 1st grade civics that trump had lost and he wasn't coming back proved i was the most patient man on earth. T... See full post

100% agree with you here! Stupidity reigns in much of America now. Too bad they're not into poker, lol. 😃

by Toupee Jay m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58425947#post58425947)

Was advised long ago to "Be the House!" I tried buying in with George Hardie when the government was trying to off it. I had 1% if we got the deal. We were actually the high bidder but they turned us down because of George's past affilitation with the previous ownership. Next I tried hard for a couple of years to get a poker license in the San Fernando Valley in L.A. I had a go... See full post

You can buy club caribe license from the flynt family for 18mm I’m told. I wouldn’t want a poker license now. Dying industry. If I had an inside track on legalized sports gambling or something I’d snatch it up.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58426033#post58426033)

You can buy club caribe license from the flynt family for 18mm I’m told. I wouldn’t want a poker license now. Dying industry. If I had an inside track on legalized sports gambling or something I’d snatch it up.

All the big money from gambling is online now. Even the big Vegas casinos are all tied into online gambling and sports betting. Meanwhile Pete Rose is still banned from MLB and the HOF for making small bets on his own team to win. Talk about hypocrisy. All of MLB is embracing gambling sites now for the advertising/sponsor dollars. Once again, money talks! The Saudi's and their PIF have bought off many of the best golfers in the world and torn pro golf to shreds in the process. That sir is the world we live in today. No morality, just greed, from the top down!

by Stu Ungar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58425296#post58425296)

Limon, who are some of your past poker friends who became Trumptards and now you can no longer be as friendly with them as you were before you knew?

I mean, you always "knew". MAGA scum are the same dipshits that still make "f*g" and "N-word" jokes at the country club. These were never close friends, these were gambling losers. Close friends i would immediately call out. No real friend of mine was a trump guy i only befriend smart successful people no grifter criminal pieces of shyt. That said, two of my friends were libertarian sort of "let the world burn" sort of dudes, and the genuinely thought that although trump was a grifter criminal he would dismantle the administrative state and shrink government. They thought the good would outweigh the bad. Well they were dead wrong and now admit trump actually made the government bigger and more intrusive. They hate biden (for no good reason) and prob just wont vote in 2024, which is fine.

by Toupee Jay m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58425955#post58425955)

100% agree with you here! Stupidity reigns in much of America now. Too bad they're not into poker, lol. 😃

oh they are definitely into poker, they just get older and poorer every year. In 2016 MAGA hats were sort of common at the commerce, i remember the exact fish who wore them. Every single one of them is broke and gone or playing at 1/4 of the stakes they were then.

you took down my post - what a lame ass phoney pussy loser...

by redbuck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58426910#post58426910)

you took down my post - what a lame ass phoney pussy loser...

da hell are you on about?

by redbuck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58426910#post58426910)

you took down my post - what a lame ass phoney pussy loser...

I have the ability to take down no posts you lying scumbag piece of shyt

Can't wait til Bobo finds out he's a "lame ass phoney pussy loser". See ya around redbuck.

I thought the limon thread was a no moderation zone? Just let the haymakers fly

by ScotchOnDaRocks m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427033#post58427033)

I thought the limon thread was a no moderation zone? Just let the haymakers fly

I guess they’ll moderate if a post gets multiple flags/reports but I never made any report on any post by redfuk or whatever that scumbag liars name is.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427070#post58427070)

I guess they’ll moderate if a post gets multiple flags/reports but I never made any report on any post by redfuk or whatever that scumbag liars name is.

Yeah I would doubt you did but it’s ok for one thread to be a free for all Just put in thread title (Not a safe space)

This thread is definitely not a moderation-free zone. Standard NVG rules apply. No personal attacks. No political posts. Etc. (If you'd like to discuss this further please post in the NVG moderation thread, but any such subsequent posts in this thread will be removed.)

Is Robbi a Dude?

Why do Superusers never create more than one account?

by whosnext m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427122#post58427122)

This thread is definitely not a moderation-free zone. Standard NVG rules apply. No personal attacks. No political posts. Etc. (If you'd like to discuss this further please post in the NVG moderation thread, but any such subsequent posts in this thread will be removed.)

you are a hero. don't let anyone tell you different. you are the wind beneath my wings and this wouldn't be an epic legendary thread without your hard work.

by jakeyboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427338#post58427338)

Is Robbi a Dude?

nah, its a very common "influencer" look in los angeles. some people really like it.

by jakeyboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427445#post58427445)

Why do Superusers never create more than one account?

im guessing many do.

by jakeyboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427812#post58427812)

And risk being labelled a Multi-accounter....OMG

by jakeyboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427862#post58427862)

Your not going with Username MoneyTaker69 off the rip and your not worried about getting caught. Minimum 100 superusers on GG

You might be looking for this thread: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/ne... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/superuser-caught-ggpoker-quot-moneytaker69-quot-thread-1829967/)

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427730#post58427730)

nah, its a very common "influencer" look in los angeles. some people really like it.

a shame she had all of that work done. young Robbi is actually really attractive.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58427730#post58427730)

nah, its a very common "influencer" look in los angeles. some people really like it.

Is androgynous the word? Favorite Vegas courses? And what's the standard bet?

I have a pitching wedge, a sand wedge, and a 7 iron. I've taken one golf lesson and been to the range three times. What should I buy next? A driver? A 5 iron? Golf shoes? What should I do next? Keep practicing with the short clubs? Buy a driver and attempt to play a round?

by bigdave2304 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58428363#post58428363)

I have a pitching wedge, a sand wedge, and a 7 iron. I've taken one golf lesson and been to the range three times. What should I buy next? A driver? A 5 iron? Golf shoes? What should I do next? Keep practicing with the short clubs? Buy a driver and attempt to play a round?

Keep up the lessons, if your starting late and you can get a decent swing together you might be able to get good. A few range sessions so you can make decent contact and enjoy a few nice shots out on the course. Buy a fullset, cost next to nothing for second hand or you will look silly. Then just get out there and do it.. If you worried a bit, maybe a par 3 course or something cheap and if the bug hits the golf will progress fast, while the rest of life doesn't matter. There's heaps of good dudes playing golf and love nothing more than showing you the way.... or a million other ways works to

by bigdave2304 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58428363#post58428363)

I have a pitching wedge, a sand wedge, and a 7 iron. I've taken one golf lesson and been to the range three times. What should I buy next? A driver? A 5 iron? Golf shoes? What should I do next? Keep practicing with the short clubs? Buy a driver and attempt to play a round?

if youre left handed buy right handed clubs if your right handed buy left handed clubs. you are still early enough in to make this change which will make your golf life 100x easier. Ben Hogan famously quoted that golf “is a right-handed game played by left-handed people".

by floatingtheriver m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58428155#post58428155)

Is androgynous the word? Favorite Vegas courses? And what's the standard bet?

Im not sure what people like about the huge lips, tiny nose, chin implant, massive rack obviously fake look. But it is very popular. maybe a fetish sort of thing? I'm not gonna be the internet dork who says these women are ugly, because they are not, and turn heads in poker room (which isn't that hard) but its all sort of set up to make that happen. Shadow is the best course in vegas and prob the best golf service experience on earth and its not close, once you are "known" there you are like a king. My buddy would miss a shot, throw his club in the water, and they'd be delivering him a new club on the next hole. Another guy i played with was too fat to tee his ball and the caddy was happily putting his ball on a tee all day while getting yelled at that the t was too high or too low (he got a $1000 tip). I haven't been there in about a year and am told its going down hill on the service side though, becoming very corporate. Ive played as big as 1000 a hole as small as 100. Never anything too crazy. never won or lost more than 10k at shadow. Im almost always a guest so i just go with the flow.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58428622#post58428622)

if youre left handed buy right handed clubs if your right handed buy left handed clubs. you are still early enough in to make this change which will make your golf life 100x easier. Ben Hogan famously quoted that golf “is a right-handed game played by left-handed people".

the worst advice that came to me was to get 1 iron, thats next level

If youre ever stuck on a golf course during a lightning storm, hold a one iron over your head. Even God can't hit a one iron

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58425010#post58425010)

I have a lot more clarity and focus during my day to day lately. And developing the mindset necessary to absorb gambling losses and swings is turning me into a far more stoic and profitable person off the tables, too. Capable of actually using my intellect when making decisions instead of my emotions. edit: The analogy you drew between the WSOP and the Kentucky Derby was reall... See full post

The key is to think about what you are doing in a much bigger way, here's an example: (infants who lurk this thread get ready to be REALLY REALLY mad) A few days ago I go into the card room around 10am, theres almost never a public $10-20nl game at this time (or any other time outside of tournaments). One big fish wanted to play so a game was started for him, it was the fish, a spazzy chinese kid who was up all night 2 clueless OMCs and 2 tight passive morning regs and an open seat. It was a good game. As we started i see a parasitic euro grinder walking in ready to start his day taking from the regs while giving nothing back pulling headphones from his giant backpack to listen to ABBA or Rammstein or whatever. I instantly tell the dealer to put an out button in the open seat and tell floor to put "KK" on the 10-20 board (initials i just made up). Parasitic Euro grinder comes to table and tries to take seat and I inform him its locked and theres a board. Now euro wanders over to snack shop to buy nutella or something and i watch the door, GOOD LUCK! massive whale walks in and im like, "doug seat open!". The whale takes the seat and we all get to play in a great game for 5 hours. Everyone at the table should have given me $100 but thats ok i do this public service for free. Its little things like this that a smart pro is ready to do because poker isn't a thing, its a vehicle. If i hadn't made that move and the euro would have sat, then the whale walking in would have sat in a different game and the omcs would have wanted to be on table change. they would have been replaced by other euros and asperger pros getting to the casino and the game would have turned to **** or broke. the little move was worth a lot of money. little moves like that on a regular basis are worth a lot of money. I prob have 100 of them. here's another: people like to bet on the football game, a lot of 3 and 7 point spreads are "Vigged" meaning one side is -125. this is pretty common on game and halftime spreads. always be ready to bet the -125 side. almost no one will care/notice and you'll get lots of action and look like a sport/gambler. So if its Chiefs +3 -125 v. Bills. ask anyone if they want the bills at the official line of -3. people will check and see the line is -3 and will take your "fair bet" for "a fun sweat".

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58428632#post58428632)

Im not sure what people like about the huge lips, tiny nose, chin implant, massive rack obviously fake look. But it is very popular. maybe a fetish sort of thing? I'm not gonna be the internet dork who says these women are ugly, because they are not, and turn heads in poker room (which isn't that hard) but its all sort of set up to make that happen. Shadow is the best course in... See full post

Summerlin, Summit or Southern?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58428622#post58428622)

if youre left handed buy right handed clubs if your right handed buy left handed clubs. you are still early enough in to make this change which will make your golf life 100x easier. Ben Hogan famously quoted that golf “is a right-handed game played by left-handed people".

assuming that if you're "canadian lefty" already where you're a right handed person but play hockey left handed then you should stick to swinging as a lefty? i've only golfed a few times and am equally bad and uncomfortable swinging from either the left or right side and have often wondered if i should be like everyone else and focus on right sided clubs or carryon the lefty thing in the event i ever get into golfing

by floatingtheriver m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58428921#post58428921)

Summerlin, Summit or Southern?

all very good, ill go with southern because ive won a lot of money there.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412829#post58412829)

the WSOP has as much to do with poker as the kentucky derby has to do with horse racing. its a perfect analogy. horse racing is dying/dead but getting a ticket to the derby costs a fortune. its sold out wayyyy in advance, ITS AN EVENT. The WSOP is also an event, it has NOTHING to do with poker players who grind daily to make a good living. People dress up and get excited to go... See full post

Limon, Have worked in Horse Racing for the past thirty years and played poker for longer than that, and your statement is one of the most accurate I have ever read online regarding these two industry's. Wish it wasn't so, but unfortunately it is. Racetrack

by TookashotatChan m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430063#post58430063)

Governments only want you to "gamble" if them and their gaming lobbyists are the ones who get it. Sad.

by jayme87 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430073#post58430073)

Slow death of poker. Governments to blame. Wish we had control

by WhyMaleModels m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430216#post58430216)

So kind of like... every government ever?

Comments about "governments" here (and online in general) always crack me up. Do these infants not understand that the government in democratic countries does not operate independent of the people? That "the government" isn't a monolithic thing, its a group of freely elected public servants? That they themselves are part of "the government" by and for the people. If one is mad about regulations on poker i guess its easier to act like a child and throw a tantrum at "duh gubbermint" than admit its your friends and neighbors that are voting for the policies you dont like and if you want different policies you need to work for them. Im not sure anyone who cant pass 1st grade civics should be commenting on gambling regulation.

Please give us a couple tells or insights into getting live reads that are not widely known.

by ES2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430579#post58430579)

Please give us a couple tells or insights into getting live reads that are not widely known.

Amar slightly audibly breathes deeply through his nose when he is bluffing or very unsure about the strength of his hand.

by tuffbeat m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430445#post58430445)

Limon, Have worked in Horse Racing for the past thirty years and played poker for longer than that, and your statement is one of the most accurate I have ever read online regarding these two industry's. Wish it wasn't so, but unfortunately it is. Racetrack

The horse racing analogy is off imo. Maybe the wsop being similar to the Kentucky derby as in a bucket list type thing I can get behind. But… Horse racing and using animals for this type of stuff is surely a dying sport. Horse racing like dog tracks will be gone in the next 40 years with all the animal rights activists. But poker is booming in certain areas and certain variants. I believe there are more PLo games spread everywhere so if you’re a plo player poker is having a mini boom. Poker is a timeless game and gambling has never been more legal nation wide and socially acceptable. Pokers not dying while horse racing days are numbered.

Three political posts removed. There is a fine line between posting about "government" (as in governmental regulations of gambling/poker) and about "politics". Generally speaking posts about "governments" are typically allowed in NVG if they are part of a productive (non-political) discussion. Political posts (e.g., naming specific politicians or political parties) are not allowed and will be removed.

by PokerEthics m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430694#post58430694)

The horse racing analogy is off imo. Maybe the wsop being similar to the Kentucky derby as in a bucket list type thing I can get behind. But…Horse racing and using animals for this type of stuff is surely a dying sport. Horse racing like dog tracks will be gone in the next 40 years with all the animal rights activists. But poker is booming in certain areas and certain var... See full post

when i say poker is dying ive tried to make it clear many times that "pro poker is dying" micro stakes games and worthless tournaments are doing fine. the paths to make an income as high or higher than you would in another field w/ equal work (upper middle class) is shrinking fast and its not even close or up for debate. the idea that people can chase mini booms and private games around for a meager income is not a selling point. the days of setting up shop in LA, Vegas, Bay area, and walking into public legal games and making an upper middle class income are dwindling fast if they even exist anymore. this reminds me of the old arguments about card counting as a career dying 25 years ago and people selling stuff or delusional were saying not dying while people on the ground were like "wtf yes its dying!" everyone actually doing it knew it was ending because they had been around when it was viable. Now card counting as a career is basically laughable.

Limon have you ever played poker in jail/prison?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430731#post58430731)

when i say poker is dying ive tried to make it clear many times that "pro poker is dying" micro stakes games and worthless tournaments are doing fine. the paths to make an income as high or higher than you would in another field w/ equal work (upper middle class) is shrinking fast and its not even close or up for debate. the idea that people can chase mini booms and private gam... See full post

Idk it feels like live poker is having a renaissance with all the vloggers live streams and in particular cash plo games up and down the east coast. I went to Borgata for their series and the PLO games were insane. Even holdem cash games were going strong. There’s card rooms like chasers in New Hampshire Boston encore, Foxwoods, parx, mgm national harbor, Maryland live, the Florida rooms, etc all spreading PLO games that were never spreading such games before so it’s kinda strange to say poker is dying when literally these games post covid are booming. As far as being a “poker pro”.. ya like 90% of players would be better off working any other job professionally. You can tell this to poker players all you want though and they will know it to be true deep down but they’ll never stop playing and that’s why poker will never die. Everyone thinks they’re in the 1-5% of winners.

by PokerEthics m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430788#post58430788)

Idk it feels like live poker is having a renaissance with all the vloggers live streams and in particular cash plo games up and down the east coast. I went to Borgata for their series and the PLO games were insane. Even holdem cash games were going strong. There’s card rooms like chasers in New Hampshire Boston encore, Foxwoods, parx, mgm national harbor, Maryland live, the Flo... See full post

He's tried to be quite clear on this. He's not saying your local poker room is going to be shuttered or it's hard to find PLO. He's saying the days of plentiful, fish-filled 25-50 games upon which you can make $150K+/year are dying, not that poker in NH, Boston, CT, MD, FL, etc. is going away entirely.

I wanna learn more about poker. Where should I start? Any advice.

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430826#post58430826)

He's tried to be quite clear on this. He's not saying your local poker room is going to be shuttered or it's hard to find PLO. He's saying the days of plentiful, fish-filled 25-50 games upon which you can make $150K+/year are dying, not that poker in NH, Boston, CT, MD, FL, etc. is going away entirely.

Ya I suppose you’re right

by whosnext m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430721#post58430721)

Three political posts removed. There is a fine line between posting about "government" (as in governmental regulations of gambling/poker) and about "politics".Generally speaking posts about "governments" are typically allowed in NVG if they are part of a productive (non-political) discussion. Political posts (e.g., naming specific politicians or political parties) are not allow... See full post

gods work. excelsior!

by Malagueno m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430860#post58430860)

I wanna learn more about poker. Where should I start? Any advice.

Right Here! 2+2 is still a great resource for poker information. there are a lot of complete morons here (mostly whining about getting cheated in gray market online sites like complete bitches) but there are also a lot of people with good info and good experience. Post in forums that match the topics you want to learn, then if the answers aren't clear or if there is an argument COME HERE TO MY THREAD. I will give you the correct and final answer. Its not hyperbole to say that I'm in the top 1% of the top1% when it comes to poker and gambling knowledge.

At which size of the pot, measured in bb, do you start to implement limping in Omaha Cash games? How big does the ante and/or the pot have to be?

I’m not so sure about live poker ”dying”…certain games may not be as good as they used to be, but it’s still possible to make good money playing as a pro. Just speaking from personal experience. YMMV. I think dying is a little hyperbolic. Maybe waning is a better term.

Limon as a 23 year old who just found out about Poker Sesh, and you in general, you are an absolute gift and beacon of truth to the poker community. I could listen to you talk for hours, you're ****ing hilarious while at the same time speaking real ****. You're not a ****ing sellout and you're a man who sticks their word even if afterwards you realize it isn't in your best interest. Thanks for all the content you've made in the past aswell as answering any and all questions people have, this **** is chalk full of gold and priceless. My favorite is your ****ing segment about running it twice the Pros vs Fish on pokersesh I couldn't stop laughing man. "Uh hey do you wanna do anything?" Lmaooo

Hey limon, great thread, question i dont think you have answered (if you have im sorry, dont skewer me), say you see a need for a game in your market area, how do you go about proposing one to a room? I live in florida near a hard rock who suck at caring about customers if that matters.

by PokerEthics m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430788#post58430788)

Idk it feels like live poker is having a renaissance with all the vloggers live streams and in particular cash plo games up and down the east coast. I went to Borgata for their series and the PLO games were insane. Even holdem cash games were going strong. There’s card rooms like chasers in New Hampshire Boston encore, Foxwoods, parx, mgm national harbor, Maryland live, t... See full post

I can't speak to these other places(besides Parx) but while the plo games during this Borgata series were good in a few days it will be a ghost town again. It's a combination of MGM taking over and getting rid of comped hotel rooms,the poker room being run like **** and several local plo players who are there 6-7 days a week being completely insufferable to play with . If they played 1/2 or 2/5 nl it would be different but in a small player pool a few people can absolutely poison the games. I actually got into it with a crusty nit who was the only guy not straddling and he had the floor called when someone who was absolutely terrible said pot preflop and the dealer didn't hear him. The crusty nit naturally had open limped like the coward he is and wanted to get in cheap. 2016-2019 borgata plo was absolutely booming and any random thurs-sunday would have been better those years than this tournament series was for plo.

Where is the better choice to be a live semi-pro in 2024, Vegas or LA? Assuming one already has a large bankroll and other streams of income and want to play 5/5-5/10 NL and PLO? I always hear games in Vegas are dried up but I see on Bravo there are multiple 2/5 and 5/10 NL as well as 5/5 PLO on the strip on weeknights.

by Droopi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58432160#post58432160)

Limon as a 23 year old who just found out about Poker Sesh, and you in general, you are an absolute gift and beacon of truth to the poker community. I could listen to you talk for hours, you're ****ing hilarious while at the same time speaking real ****. You're not a ****ing sellout and you're a man who sticks their word even if afterwards you realize it isn't in your best inte... See full post

thanks brotha! At the time i did the "run it twice" vids (8 or 9 years ago originally) there was no good info and so much bad info about "running it" strategy I thought i might as well get the "bible" out there. still stands the test of time. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL... (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjgUBwlxPsOqMYNivm1PD72DPnjaUKoiJ) i am not associated with any videos of me online so dont complain about the editing or whatever. anyone is allowed to put up any of my old videos that they want. its all free use as far as im concerned.

by syndr0me m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58432196#post58432196)

Hey limon, great thread, question i dont think you have answered (if you have im sorry, dont skewer me), say you see a need for a game in your market area, how do you go about proposing one to a room? I live in florida near a hard rock who suck at caring about customers if that matters.

i think i answered that here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58313879&postcount=139)

by TheTruthSayer m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58432558#post58432558)

Where is the better choice to be a live semi-pro in 2024, Vegas or LA? Assuming one already has a large bankroll and other streams of income and want to play 5/5-5/10 NL and PLO? I always hear games in Vegas are dried up but I see on Bravo there are multiple 2/5 and 5/10 NL as well as 5/5 PLO on the strip on weeknights.

if you can handle living in vegas, its vegas. much cheaper, plenty of games and since youre part time you wont have to play the soul draining reg fest mid week games and concentrate on the juicy weekend games. I could never live in vegas, so its LA all day for me.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58432782#post58432782)

if you can handle living in vegas, its vegas. much cheaper, plenty of games and since youre part time you wont have to play the soul draining reg fest mid week games and concentrate on the juicy weekend games. I could never live in vegas, so its LA all day for me.

Thanks for the reply! I would be playing during the week, so games in Vegas are bad during the week? LA isn’t? Also wondering why you could never live in Vegas.

How are poker groupies?

by TheTruthSayer m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58432896#post58432896)

Thanks for the reply! I would be playing during the week, so games in Vegas are bad during the week? LA isn’t? Also wondering why you could never live in Vegas.

Vegas is a tourist town, the locals are actually pretty poor. During the week there is a predominance of poor grinders the rich tourists come in on the weekends. the quality of games will be directly proportional the the hotel occupancy rate (im talking about games 5-10 and above that are worth playing, micro stakes might be good more often) Los angeles is not a tourist town for poker, its almost all locals/regs, and many of the regs are filthy rich, los angeles is a VERY rich city compared to vegas. The mojave desert is not conducive to human life. we aren't supposed to be there for long periods. after a week in vegas your body knows this, your mind will soon follow. the facade will crack.

by nucularburro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58433775#post58433775)

How are poker groupies?

the absolute worst in most ways (as shown in this thread). they tend to be the lowest form of subhuman life stalking their superiors and posting constantly in their threads about how "no one should post in this thread". Their love is deep though and their dedication admirable, i have about 100 who will follow me across all social media platforms and amplify all my content. They also tend to have slutty, if not pretty moms who like to bang so thats another small positive.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58433992#post58433992)

Los angeles is not a tourist town for poker, its almost all locals/regs, and many of the regs are filthy rich, los angeles is a VERY rich city compared to vegas.

This is very true, but you should come down here once in a while and play at Oceans 11. Sister property to the Bike, both run by the Haig Kellegian people. It is the only decent poker room in 30 miles any direction, so you have all the San Diego and South OC money. So much free money for the taking..

by Stu Ungar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58434008#post58434008)

This is very true, but you should come down here once in a while and play at Oceans 11. Sister property to the Bike, both run by the Haig Kellegian people. It is the only decent poker room in 30 miles any direction, so you have all the San Diego and South OC money. So much free money for the taking..

i used to play there some long ago, sometimes those military dudes would come in and just put every penny they had on the table and blast. my golf buddy "Z" (zabed) was running it recently. He is a piece of work!

Why does limon get to post whatever he wants and my posts get deleted?

by trampled m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58434104#post58434104)

Why does limon get to post whatever he wants and my posts get deleted?

(1) It is a long-standing NVG rule that posts about moderation should go in the NVG Moderation thread. (2) Personal attacky posts will be deleted from this thread, just like any other NVG thread, regardless of who makes the post. (3) By my quick count approximately 10 posts by trampled and 50 posts by limon have been deleted from this thread.

by trampled m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58434104#post58434104)

Why does limon get to post whatever he wants and my posts get deleted?

Awwww. Do you feel “trampled”? Go start your own thread that everyone can ignore you crybaby bitch. Stop clogging up this legendary epic thread.

Hi limon. Time to name drop 😀 Biggest non-poker celeb you've ever partied with? (Using "partied very liberally here - anyone you've been at an event with, even if you didn't speak to them directly, would count imo.) Bonus points for anyone in Hollywood, sports, and politics

by whosnext m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58434137#post58434137)

(1) It is a long-standing NVG rule that posts about moderation should go in the NVG Moderation thread. (2) Personal attacky posts will be deleted from this thread, just like any other NVG thread, regardless of who makes the post. (3) By my quick count approximately 10 posts by trampled and 50 posts by limon have been deleted from this thread.

Ok limon has made about 500X my posts and maybe you missed the ones above me. Don't think it gets more "personal attacky"? I think I'd probably get banned if i consistently posted like this, so any reason it is acceptable?

Awwww. Do you feel “trampled”? Go start your own thread that everyone can ignore you crybaby bitch. Stop clogging up this legendary epic thread.

Calling people slaves and making sexual comments about your detractors is not legend behavior, and it is a drain on moderator resources to have them coming in here to police this. I am aware that people who don't like limon are equally combative, but being a public figure means having to learn how to deal with trolls and dissenters. I don't care who's more right and who's more wrong. I don't care who started it. Grow up.

by trampled m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58434450#post58434450)

Ok limon has made about 500X my posts and maybe you missed the ones above me. Don't think it gets more "personal attacky"? I think I'd probably get banned if i consistently posted like this, so any reason it is acceptable?

cry harder bitch. you know you dont have to post in this thread you dumb kunt. dont start no shyt, wont be no shyt. slave ass stalker ho.

by RosaParks1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58434503#post58434503)

Calling people slaves and making sexual comments about your detractors is not legend behavior, and it is a drain on moderator resources to have them coming in here to police this. I am aware that people who don't like limon are equally combative, but being a public figure means having to learn how to deal with trolls and dissenters. I don't care who's more right and who's mor... See full post

im more right, i didn't start anything, so fukk off. there is no "both sides" here you fukking infant. i answer all good faith questions politely and thoroughly taking care to use MY time to do a FREE service to THIS SITE and the poker community in general and treat everyone the way i would want to be treated. if i was a lowlife piece of shyt trolling someone else's AMA i would want to be attacked with extreme prejudice. but i would never do that, because im a literal fukking legend.

by King_of_NYC m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58434429#post58434429)

Hi limon. Time to name drop 😀 Biggest non-poker celeb you've ever partied with? (Using "partied very liberally here - anyone you've been at an event with, even if you didn't speak to them directly, would count imo.) Bonus points for anyone in Hollywood, sports, and politics

hello king, thank you for the well thought out and sincere question, i will now answer it politely and in full like i do with all questions of this kind (attention mods) I played in danny masterson and vince vaughn home games. masterson very creepy, vaughn very cool. Ive hung out and shot the shyt with barkley at Shadow creek more than once. Ive played in the same poker games as many celebrities Paquiao, Phelps, Cheadle (hung out with cheadle at golf course as well), tobey, bruno mars, dicaprio. never a bad experience, celebs are cool customers at poker table IME.

Hello friends!!! Anything fun happen while i was away? Lets fire this puppy back up!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNey0PR4... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNey0PR46F4&pp=ygUMd2VsY29tZSBiYWNr)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHRGFaQz... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHRGFaQzRBA&pp=ygUMd2VsY29tZSBiYWNr)

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466352#post58466352)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNey0PR4... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNey0PR46F4&pp=ygUMd2VsY29tZSBiYWNr)

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466353#post58466353)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHRGFaQz... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHRGFaQzRBA&pp=ygUMd2VsY29tZSBiYWNr)

my dreams were my ticket back.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466350#post58466350)

Anything fun happen while i was away?

They took the fun away. Now it's back.

Oh, wow. It's back and Limon is free.

by David Sklansky m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466019#post58466019)

Very simple, especially online. Certain hands, perhaps only 72, perhaps 72, 82, and92, perhaps even any hand with a deuce, gets half (or possibly some other fraction) its money back when it loses. When the hand is over eligible hands are exposed, including those in the blinds and the refund gets taken out of the pot before the winner collects.

I have suggested something like this to casino marketing departments many times over the years. Marketing/ bonus from casinos is always completely wrong. because they dont play poker they always give bonuses and comps for VOLUME. This is 100% wrong. You should give bonuses and comps for BAD/POOR PLAY. The players who put in the most volume are the players the casino wants LEAST. They are bot grinders taking from the system. The casino is taking the rake of the losing players who keep the grinders in action and giving it to the grinders who are destroying them through comps/promotions!!!!! This makes all the games worse and the casino to actually make LESS RAKE. Comps and promotions should be set up so that only BAD PLAYERS get them, then the rake of the parasites on the system is going to the players who actually keep them in action. This is the proper way comps are supposed to work. The casino should constantly be giving out what amounts to medium size (not too big) jackpots for POOR PLAY. Example: A $5000 jackpot for making a 7 high straight flush or smaller. Nearly all of these small jackpots won every day will be won by FISH! pros are unlikely to play these little cards and go all the way with them. Im sur there are better ideas, this just popped into my mind. What would you propose to reward bad play??

Welcome back limey boy, Whats the most you ever heard of someone paying for girls? Either one time or long term.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466388#post58466388)

I have suggested something like this to casino marketing departments many times over the years. Marketing/ bonus from casinos is always completely wrong. because they dont play poker they always give bonuses and comps for VOLUME. This is 100% wrong. You should give bonuses and comps for BAD/POOR PLAY. The players who put in the most volume are the players the casino wants LEAST... See full post

Years ago, and I pit this in my Cardrooms book: https://www.amazon.com/Cardrooms-Everyth... (https://www.amazon.com/Cardrooms-Everything-Better-Analysis-Improvement/dp/1880685647/ref=sr_1_10?crid=2XEPKTT8EJRQN&keywords=Mason+Malmuth&qid=1708189794&s=books&sprefix=mason+malmuth%2Cstripbooks%2C146&sr=1-10) I told a poker room manager that he should find the 10 worse players in town and give them all the promotional money with the stipulation that they have to play until they're broke. More realistically, what this means, as Limon also points out, is that poker room promotions should be designed to make it more likely that a poor player will get the money. An similar example to what Limon gives is to give a prize for a straight-flush wheel rather than a royal flush. Mason

So what your saying is, more rake is better?

by Mixedgamelover m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466462#post58466462)

So what your saying is, more rake is better?

If you're referring to me, I make it very clear in my Cardrooms book that the rake has gotten too high. Mason

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466469#post58466469)

If you're referring to me, I make it very clear in my Cardrooms book that the rake has gotten too high. Mason

No it was to limons post about giving less to grinders.

by Mixedgamelover m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466471#post58466471)

No it was to limons post about giving less to grinders.

The rake stays the same. The promotions (which are going to be spent anyway) go to the GAMBOOOOLERS like all promotions in a casino that is running properly. I’m the king run it’s better for everyone

Limon, Glad you are back. It appears you are financially successful. Enjoy hosting poker game, fine food/drinks, advantage plays and playing golf. Do you volunteer and donate to any causes you care about? You need to do a Where are they Now? Pokersesh was fun listening to and all the regular characters who called in. Curious what everyone is up to now. They were all real correct? No paid actors? The casino Janitor who called in etc... 2hats. The Poker Mentor etc... It was quite a fun and motley crew.

Hi Lemon, welcome back

Giving the promotional money to a 7- or even 6-high straight flush would preferentially reward bad players over good ones even more than to a steel wheel. DUCY?

How about a promotion where if seven-deuce makes either 77722 or 22277 it wins a big pot of promotional money, whether or not it is the best hand at the showdown?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466388#post58466388)

The players who put in the most volume are the players the casino wants LEAST. They are bot grinders taking from the system. The casino is taking the rake of the losing players who keep the grinders in action and giving it to the grinders who are destroying them through comps/promotions!!!!! This makes all the games worse and the casino to actually make LESS RAKE.

I think you are only half-right here. In the lower-stakes games I play, the people like me who are taking money out of the game are not even a majority of the people who put in long hours. The bad regs, the people who play every day out of boredom and the desire to socialize, are the majority of the everyday players, and they are not beating the rake. They do tend to be nittier than the players who really inject money into the game, but they pay rake, they keep games going, and the casino management loves them (to the extent that casino management cares about poker at all). And the promotions induce them to pay more rake, because when it's folded to the blinds, instead of chopping and keeping the money on the table from going down the slot, they selectively play the card combos that can make promotional hands, trading immediate rake for the long shot of hitting a high-hand prize. It tilts the **** out of me, because they are playing their superior combos and chopping with their garbage hands, putting anyone who chops every hand to avoid rake at a disadvantage. If I find myself sitting next to one of these angle-shooting scumbags, **** the rake, I'm never chopping.

by Tokyo!! m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58312532#post58312532)

She looks like the same woman who got me penalized mid tournament at the bike a few years ago for dropping F bombs at a meth head. Smh. Fn women Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

by onebigdummy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466544#post58466544)

Hi Lemon, welcome back

Thanks buddy!

Limon, I took your idea and suggested to some old timers to use local casino chips for their homegame because it's less likely that there will be a mistake at the end of the night with the pot being off when people cash out but they called it a bad idea. Instead they'd rather do it their way (every chip, regardless of color, is worth $1 and anybody who wants to buy chips/cashout can do it themselves from the box and/or the tournament table (cashgame comes after tournament bustout degeneracy demand starts ticking) and have the pot be $70 off. Why do you think this is?

by jinz3rd m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466392#post58466392)

Welcome back limey boy, Whats the most you ever heard of someone paying for girls? Either one time or long term.

I know one guy who has to be near a million, several prob in the 500k range lifetime. I went to a pool party at Aria where several cabanas had at least half a dozen tens in each cabana. The dude who threw it was paying all of them $100 an hour (or more) just to stand around and then guys who were invited to the party could make their own "private" deals. There was a "pimp/manager" or whatever there who was switching out the girls constantly. The host would point at like 6 and say "they gotta go" and then 6 more would just show up. lol. There was an old scam where when a casino discontinued their chips if you got stuck with some or could get your hands on the old chips from the inside you could use them to pay hookers and the hookers had no clue until they got to the cage and found out the bad news. One friend of mine got reversed on this scam when he sent the hooker to the sports book to cash a $1000 ticket for him and she came back with $1100 in chips and said she played some blackjack and won. The chips were discontinued chips and the chick disappeared. lololol. this same dude would buy fake rolex at commerce casino from a dude who would sell them table to table back in the day. when he had a hooker he would leave the rolex on the nightstand after coitus and go take a shower. He said at least 50% of the time the girl would steal the rolex and be gone when he got out of the shower (he liked some ghetto ass chicks).

by YoungOne m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466495#post58466495)

Limon,Glad you are back. It appears you are financially successful. Enjoy hosting poker game, fine food/drinks, advantage plays and playing golf.Do you volunteer and donate to any causes you care about? You need to do a Where are they Now? Pokersesh was fun listening to and all the regular characters who called in. Curious what everyone is up to now. They were all real ... See full post

I actually think paying my taxes is the best cause i can donate to. Its the cause of democratic self government by and for the people. That money is directed by the citizens through our representatives to where it is needed most and the american tax system has made this country the greatest the world has ever known. Its not perfect but it is better than any alternative. Everyone on pokersesh was real. poker mentor is married with children now and not as involved in poker. 2hats came out of the closet and became sort of an alt poker boy toy but still plays poker for a living. SD the casino bathroom attendant became like a stalker of other poker podcasters i think.

by DizzyG m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466635#post58466635)

What is your go to alcoholic drink when you first wakeup mid afternoon?

uh, i get up early for golf and never drink on the golf course. If i was up late and having a drink it would mean i was on some sort of tropical vacation so either a mai tai or a margarita.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466938#post58466938)

uh, i get up early for golf and never drink on the golf course. If i was up late and having a drink it would mean i was on some sort of tropical vacation so either a mai tai or a margarita.

That sounds very nice.

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466659#post58466659)

How about a promotion where if seven-deuce makes either 77722 or 22277 it wins a big pot of promotional money, whether or not it is the best hand at the showdown?

ya thats a good promotion. or maybe a complete "deuces wild"type promotion where any deuces full wins a small jackpot. the vast majority of this promo money would go to recreational players and make the games looser and better.

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466676#post58466676)

I think you are only half-right here. In the lower-stakes games I play, the people like me who are taking money out of the game are not even a majority of the people who put in long hours. The bad regs, the people who play every day out of boredom and the desire to socialize, are the majority of the everyday players, and they are not beating the rake. They do tend to be nittier... See full post

small stakes games are a different animal because of the massive liquidity of a giant player pool of recreational players with almost no professional players but even then promotions that encourage bad play will make the games better and run longer. The players putting in massive hours will put in the same amount of hours if say, the "high hand" bonus was flipped to a "deuces wild" type bonus.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58466775#post58466775)

Limon, I took your idea and suggested to some old timers to use local casino chips for their homegame because it's less likely that there will be a mistake at the end of the night with the pot being off when people cash out but they called it a bad idea. Instead they'd rather do it their way (every chip, regardless of color, is worth $1 and anybody who wants to buy chips/casho... See full post

you've stumped me buddy.

old timers stuck in their ways

Will Starry have a copyright issue with their logo?

Hi Limon: It looks like you were missed. Keep this thread going in a positive way and I'm sure it'll grow to many times larger. Almost makes me want to do an AMA. But I said almost. Mason

by CrazyLond m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58467666#post58467666)

Will Starry have a copyright issue with their logo? ... See full post

I got my lawyers working on it. Got ‘em working in shifts!

Great follow-up on the original epic well thread. These guys arguing about poker dying remind me of the guys claiming there was no cheating at 10/20+ NL online ...strange how many of them had cheating scandals revealed over the years. From the original thread I remember you were well diversified outside poker with real estate, coin laundry, etc. and you've mentioned side gambling businesses several times. Why continue to host poker games if it requires some active time and probably doesn't yield more than 2-3% of your net worth? I could see playing the same stakes if it's more about the thrill of finding an edge than needing the money, but hosting just seems like light work for decent $ with no risk or mental stimulation.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58467947#post58467947)

I got my lawyers working on it. Got ‘em working in shifts!

Oh, that is nifty. I hope you get them.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58467735#post58467735)

Hi Limon: It looks like you were missed. Keep this thread going in a positive way and I'm sure it'll grow to many times larger. Almost makes me want to do an AMA. But I said almost. Mason

Do it in this new AMA forum. It might be fun! GOGOGOGOOGOGO

by critiakx2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58468406#post58468406)

Great follow-up on the original epic well thread. These guys arguing about poker dying remind me of the guys claiming there was no cheating at 10/20+ NL online ...strange how many of them had cheating scandals revealed over the years.From the original thread I remember you were well diversified outside poker with real estate, coin laundry, etc. and you've mentioned side gambli... See full post

hosting a poker game is a "free roll" for me. Im going to hang out with gamblers and golf, go to the casino and organize a game play a few hours a week etc etc. no matter what. i might as well get paid for it, its a win/win for the casino and me. I am functionally retired, i dont spend even a minute of each day doing anything but exactly what i want to be doing.

First pic of the new forum. Young limon setting up for the “official Mensa cash game (no joke)” late 90s? No rake at the lake!

Nice work limon, you got a whole forum!

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58468955#post58468955)

First pic of the new forum. Young limon setting up for the “official Mensa cash game (no joke)” late 90s? No rake at the lake! ... See full post

That is neato keen. I bet everyone had a swell night.

by critiakx2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58468406#post58468406)

Great follow-up on the original epic well thread. These guys arguing about poker dying remind me of the guys claiming there was no cheating at 10/20+ NL online ...strange how many of them had cheating scandals revealed over the years.

I'm not sure about the context or reference you make here. Are you saying that poker's not dead? I thought the point Limon hammered home pretty well is to not rely on poker as a career - aka - your main or only source of income. Not that it was "dead". In fact, he said it's still a 10/10+ hobby, as well as a way to earn extra money. He was comparing the game now to the game 15+ years ago.

This thread is auto-moderated by ChatGPT. What this means is that if you find your post has been deleted, it was done automatically without moderator involvement.

Limon how did you get so good at playing poker from the hijack position?

by Max m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58469745#post58469745)

This thread is auto-moderated by ChatGPT. What this means is that if you find your post has been deleted, it was done automatically without moderator involvement.

now im gonna be obsessed with outsmarting the bots.

by Max m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58469745#post58469745)

This thread is auto-moderated by ChatGPT. What this means is that if you find your post has been deleted, it was done automatically without moderator involvement.

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58470193#post58470193)

Im calling BS that AI figured out how to moderate my last post. Some mod came in here and meddled in the process.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58469785#post58469785)

Limon how did you get so good at playing poker from the hijack position?

lessons from wayne "d22soso" chang. highly recommended. i went from re-buys to rib eyes.

by plaaynde m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58469102#post58469102)

Nice work limon, you got a whole forum!

the dude abides

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58470348#post58470348)

lessons from wayne "d22soso" chang. highly recommended. i went from re-buys to rib eyes.

Abe when are you and Wayne O gonna team up again for another epic hour long YouTube video?

by DizzyG m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58469573#post58469573)

That is neato keen. I bet everyone had a swell night.

Maybe that night but that game broke up marriages, spawned marriages, caused car wrecks, and cost some people 5 figures in a 1-2 potl limit dealer call it game. It was a wild group of nerds.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58470354#post58470354)

the dude abides

That's, like, your opinion, man.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58469605#post58469605)

I'm not sure about the context or reference you make here. Are you saying that poker's not dead?I thought the point Limon hammered home pretty well is to not rely on poker as a career - aka - your main or only source of income. Not that it was "dead". In fact, he said it's still a 10/10+ hobby, as well as a way to earn extra money. He was comparing the game now to the game 15+ ... See full post

So...is online poker dead or not? Online research yields a surprisingly optimistic outlook for the near future.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58470347#post58470347)

Im calling BS that AI figured out how to moderate my last post. Some mod came in here and meddled in the process.

Wanna bet $1 with me that it was a person?

by Max m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58470955#post58470955)

Wanna bet $1 with me that it was a person?

it just deleted/censored another of my posts saying "making sweet love" as a test! its set too sensitive.

Max in the house

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58470892#post58470892)

So...is online poker dead or not? Online research yields a surprisingly optimistic outlook for the near future.

the front page of this site (and every other poker forum) is just tales of cheating, bots, rta and every other known and unknown chreating/scam scandal going on at online sites constantly. AI will basically end online poker as a way to make a decent living, what looks optimistic?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58471072#post58471072)

the front page of this site (and every other poker forum) is just tales of cheating, bots, rta and every other known and unknown chreating/scam scandal going on at online sites constantly. AI will basically end online poker as a way to make a decent living, what looks optimistic?

Despite these challenges, tons of players continue to play ...and at respectable stakes. How the industry adjusts and adapts to this new AI boom will reveal it's future but that's not something that's exclusive to online poker. A lot of young players seem to keep streaming into the game from all around the world. I mean, the game's not going anywhere and some pros still say that $150k/USD a year is well attainable for anyone who puts in the proper effort and volume. But I understand that much time and effort invested into another field very well may work out far better for someone. In both the short and long term. That doesn't render online poker's future totally bleak, though. As I've said before: I understand your stance (and agree with it) that you want poker to be a secondary source of income, ideally. However, combining both live and online volume, some players continue to make enough money to justify playing full time. I know I was saying "online poker" but I also understand that live poker can be far more profitable today and don't see why anyone would specifically avoid it if they considered themselves a pro. I can play on any US facing site except Ignition and I'm located in a good spot north of NYC. More local live venues are planned for the future and depending upon which ones work out, the game could become very profitable for some of us on the east coast. I digress. I fully understand how much less profitable the game is today than at one point but I still see guys making a very nice living off of it. If you already have a decent source of income and then just add on with poker, well...that's a win/win, of course. You did say early on in this thread that you were pretty much done with online poker by 2009, right? That's quite some time ago so I can understand where you're coming from to a large extent. For some of us - all we know is online poker post 2009. I should probably leave this thread alone for a while due to the negativity. Not because I don't want to read the truth but because it's terrible for my mental game and I just redeposited a small amount.

hahaha, ill pay you $1 to know what the protocols

I'll have to find you in Vegas I guess 😀 This is the prompt used:

Spoiler Show

{{ ""Role"": ""You are a moderation bot for a VBulletin forum, tasked with identifying abusive content."", ""Abusive Post Definition"": ""Posts are deemed abusive if they contain: profanity, disrespectful behavior towards others, personal attacks, or trolling."", ""Task"": ""Respond with JSON object {'isAbusiveContent': true} for abusive posts and {'isAbusiveContent': false} for non-abusive posts."", ""Input"": ""Data format: {'content': 'Content of the post goes here.'}"", ""Enhanced Vigilance Required"": ""Your role requires detecting disguised abusive content. Users may attempt to circumvent rules by masking the true intent of their posts. Your objectives include: (1) Deep Analysis - Understand the deeper meaning or intent, looking beyond the surface to uncover hidden disrespect, trolling, or personal attacks. (2) Intent Recognition - Be vigilant for subtle signals of indirect harm, including coded language or veiled insults. (3) Proactive Moderation - Commit to identifying and mitigating content that, while not breaking rules explicitly, disrupts respectful and constructive engagement."", ""Exceptions"": ""Mild swear words or jokes that reflect friendly banter are permissible and shouldn't be flagged as abusive."" }}

by Max m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58471170#post58471170)

I'll have to find you in Vegas I guess 😀

beers are on me! thats some pretty cool ****. I think it is set too sensitive though. in the post you quoted (which was deleted) i was just describing, vaguely, what it had deleted in the past (for discussion purposes) and it deleted that post as well!

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58470417#post58470417)

Abe when are you and Wayne O gonna team up again for another epic hour long YouTube video?

early march im told. me and wayne will be back in the booth calling some "big bet" poker action!

Big Bet get a new home? The place closes April 2nd.

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58472041#post58472041)

Big Bet get a new home? The place closes April 2nd.

Yes. I don’t think it’s a secret anymore that’s it’s a large Los Angeles card room…

Commerce?

https://play.globalpoker.com/hand/6b44fd... (https://play.globalpoker.com/hand/6b44fd3e-1b18-3759-bccd-d31b59360226) Same player proceeded to reload and dump stack, after stack, after stack to the entire table. I, however, manage to find the 97% beat here. 97% on the flop no good anymore? Nope. Constantly, people without even a draw are calling huge all ins with 2-6% equity on the flop and beating me. Then, of course, after a few hours of this I'll punt a stack or two and boom - horrific session. And by punt I mean lose flush over flush (KvJ high) vs another complete whale and then run AK into a guy with 55 bb's AA. Maybe you guys are right. Maybe online is dead. I just don't understand how I can take one or two of these EVERY 200-300 hands. Where's the vids of the guys running that bad in live poker? I watch tons. I never see that ****. Not just some guy sitting there taking beat, after beat, after beat with 90%+ equity on the flop.

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58472348#post58472348)

https://play.globalpoker.com/hand/6b44fd... (https://play.globalpoker.com/hand/6b44fd3e-1b18-3759-bccd-d31b59360226)Same player proceeded to reload and dump stack, after stack, after stack to the entire table. I, however, manage to find the 97% beat here. 97% on the flop no good anymore? Nope. Constantly, people without even a draw are calling huge all ins with 2-6% equity on the flop and beating me. Then, of course, after... See full post

yo stack! , if you want to play poker for a living (bad idea) move to LA or Vegas and be willing to travel to florida or texas or whatever else the flavor of the week is for long stretches during big tournament series. absolutely never play a cash game online under any circumstances. this is the correct and final answer, any complaining about a path other than this will be ignored.

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58472888#post58472888)

Especially Limon.

I like to tell good beat stories. When someone tells me they had aces and lost i then tell them, "well listen to this one, I also got aces in near the exact same situation as you, except my opponent missed their draw on the end and i won a huge pot". then i just sit there enjoying the confused silence.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58430731#post58430731)

when i say poker is dying ive tried to make it clear many times that "pro poker is dying" micro stakes games and worthless tournaments are doing fine. the paths to make an income as high or higher than you would in another field w/ equal work (upper middle class) is shrinking fast and its not even close or up for debate. the idea that people can chase mini booms and private gam... See full post

What do you call upper middle class? 6 figures/year? I couldnt count on my fingers the number of people I know who make that grinding midstakes. I know even more people who make less but only due to lack of volume. As for card counting, yeah totally dead. But aren't there other ways to AP blackjack that are more difficult but offer viable incomes to those willing to put in the effort?

by MetaGameOver m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58472941#post58472941)

What do you call upper middle class? 6 figures/year? I couldnt count on my fingers the number of people I know who make that grinding midstakes. I know even more people who make less but only due to lack of volume.As for card counting, yeah totally dead. But aren't there other ways to AP blackjack that are more difficult but offer viable incomes to those willing to put in the e... See full post

highest paying entry-level jobs (quick google search dont @ me): Registered nurse $94,000 Environmental Engineer. $95,000 Web Developer. Annual salary: $106,000. ... Accountant. Annual salary: $71,500. ... Content Strategist. Annual salary: $88,000. ... Copywriter. Annual salary: $78,500. ... lawyer: $91,000 doctor: $227,000 here's a quick google list of entry level jobs. Anyone with the intelligence and work ethic to reasonably make 100k their 1st year of playing poker (basically impossible in reality) would be far better off spending their 1st year at a job doing one of these things IN GROWING INDUSTRIES. some require a lot of formal education some very little but poker also requires several years of work/practice to reach 6 figure income level. These are entry level wages which are as high or higher than the "end boss" goal of 99% of WINNING poker players which is a solid 6 fig income. Pro poker is dying and a massive waste of time for an intelligent hard working person and its not even close.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58472910#post58472910)

I like to tell good beat stories. When someone tells me they had aces and lost i then tell them, "well listen to this one, I also got aces in near the exact same situation as you, except my opponent missed their draw on the end and i won a huge pot". then i just sit there enjoying the confused silence.

I dropped a one-outer on a guy on Saturday (the case king), I should keep that one at the ready should anyone try to launch into some bad beat story that I don't give AF about.

The site security scandals are almost good for poker celebrities because every time one happens, some washed up name gets to sell out and pretend they're going to be heading up a new security revamp. Btw Limon, you're not always my favorite TV channel but I do want to apologize for talking about you in a thread that you literally couldn't respond in. That felt particularly lame, so sorry, welcome back, and good luck with the thread.

by MetaGameOver m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58472941#post58472941)

What do you call upper middle class? 6 figures/year? I couldnt count on my fingers the number of people I know who make that grinding midstakes. I know even more people who make less but only due to lack of volume.As for card counting, yeah totally dead. But aren't there other ways to AP blackjack that are more difficult but offer viable incomes to those willing to put in the e... See full post

I know considerably a considerably larger number than that, but then that is because of the company I keep. (Essentially all of the serious card-counters I knew switched from blackjack to poker because it was easy to win money, even serious money, without having to cope with heat from the casino.)

by RosaParks1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58473762#post58473762)

The site security scandals are almost good for poker celebrities because every time one happens, some washed up name gets to sell out and pretend they're going to be heading up a new security revamp. Btw Limon, you're not always my favorite TV channel but I do want to apologize for talking about you in a thread that you literally couldn't respond in. That felt particularly la... See full post

thanks buddy. coming forward shows your mettle. many others in that thread are abject cowards.

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58474118#post58474118)

I know considerably a considerably larger number than that, but then that is because of the company I keep. (Essentially all of the serious card-counters I knew switched from blackjack to poker because it was easy to win money, even serious money, without having to cope with heat from the casino.)

card counting/ap and sports betting basically have a hard cap because the casinos come down on you hard once they know you are winning. poker has no such cap, but is beginning to grow one as higher stakes games become less public/inviting to big winners every day.

did the bot delete a bunch of posts again? seems excessive. its set far too sensitive.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58474137#post58474137)

thanks buddy. coming forward shows your mettle. many others in that thread are abject cowards.

I was also in that thread and made derogatory comments about you. I don't remember all of my comments because I was on a bender but they weren't pleasant remarks. I have forgiven myself.

by DizzyG m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58475946#post58475946)

I was also in that thread and made derogatory comments about you. I don't remember all of my comments because I was on a bender but they weren't pleasant remarks. I have forgiven myself.

i will consider your knee bended. carry on.

How old are you

WOW 200,000 VIEWS! LETS KEEP IT GOING!!! In honor of this milestone Ill offer a free tip: the fed has announced they are lowering rates. the fed does what it says its going to do 100% of the time barring some major unforeseen financial interruption. the reason is because keeping their promises is important for market stability. if you have ever thought about holding medium and long term treasury bond funds there has been no better time in the last 17 years based on the current evidence available. You will get high yields and increase in the underlying asset. Hold these funds until the fed announces they will raise rates (after the next recession). risks: bond weakness do to lower foreign demand (no evidence of this), massive respike in inflation (no evidence of this), AI efficiencies overheating the economy (no evidence of this). None of this is happening now but watch it closely!

by drycough m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476075#post58476075)

How old are you

early 50s going on 19.

by Max m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58471170#post58471170)

I'll have to find you in Vegas I guess 😀This is the prompt used: ... See full post

lol. the bot deleted bobo fett!! funny stuff but it is set wayyyyy too sensitive.

Bobo deleted Bobo and the series of off topic derailing posts

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476087#post58476087)

WOW 200,000 VIEWS! LETS KEEP IT GOING!!!In honor of this milestone Ill offer a free tip: the fed has announced they are lowering rates. the fed does what it says its going to do 100% of the time barring some major unforeseen financial interruption. the reason is because keeping their promises is important for market stability. if you have ever thought about holding medium and l... See full post

Thanks for the tip - would you consider VGLT a wise choice? I mostly buy index funds and don't trade much. Also I've heard sentiment that keeping bonds in brokerage accounts is bad because the tax hits are worse - but I suppose you could make that argument about holding lots of stuff in a brokerage account.

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476206#post58476206)

Bobo deleted Bobo and the series of off topic derailing posts

Waht!!! This forum was supposed to be bot moderated. I could have won a $1 bet!!!!!

The bot is set to look for potentially profane or insulting posts. It can't currently judge if a line of posts are off topic or derailing. Still a few days left of human moderation. 😀

What tips do you have for living a healthy lifestyle as a gambler?

by guttterball m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476227#post58476227)

Thanks for the tip - would you consider VGLT a wise choice? I mostly buy index funds and don't trade much. Also I've heard sentiment that keeping bonds in brokerage accounts is bad because the tax hits are worse - but I suppose you could make that argument about holding lots of stuff in a brokerage account.

vglt is fine. everything in the brokerage account is hit with taxes so things you dont trade much if at all are best for that. things youre gonna trade a lot (like crypto through greyscale. mstr, or etf) try to do in a retirement account if you can.

by Stumeister m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476333#post58476333)

What tips do you have for living a healthy lifestyle as a gambler?

never gamble and make a point of never gambling (including soft gambling like playing on a stake, selling pieces or swapping to play bigger than your roll) . be like the rake. or better yet, be the actual rake. play a lot when you feel like playing and dont play at all when you dont. have several interests which you enjoy as much as poker/advantage play never date a poker player/gambler. do anything you want any time you want IN MODERATION save for a rainy day.

can you elaborate on the never date a poker player/gambler

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58475756#post58475756)

did the bot delete a bunch of posts again? seems excessive. its set far too sensitive.

I just cleaned up a handful of posts (10) derailing about online poker. Poster seemed good with letting the subject drop after I asked him to, but then someone replied to one of his posts and it started back up again veering into the online poker is rigged realm, so I just deleted the whole thing.

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476589#post58476589)

I just cleaned up a handful of posts (10) derailing about online poker. Poster seemed good with letting the subject drop after I asked him to, but then someone replied to one of his posts and it started back up again veering into the online poker is rigged realm, so I just deleted the whole thing.

your bot overlords will not be pleased and now max owes me $1.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476464#post58476464)

can you elaborate on the never date a poker player/gambler

in my 25 years ive seen dozens of female "poker pros"/high volume regs or whatever come to the casino. the dude "poker pros" or whatever flock to them and female poker players always end up dating a string of male poker players (the men always play higher stakes than them nearly 100% of the time which is interesting). these relationships work out and are lasting near 0% of the time AFAICT. two people on strange hours in high stress "jobs" where money is everything and gambling addiction is common inside a casino atmosphere where one or both often are borderline scam artists is just a disaster.

For what it's worth, my downstairs tenants are a married couple with a ten-year-old kid. The parents met through poker. He's a software engineer and she's a lawyer. They paid her way through law school by heavy duty advantage play and poker -- she was the last woman standing in the WSOP main event one year. They are not pros, although they both have been; she still does substantial advantage play in California and Nevada casinos on weekends. My partner and I had breakfast with her yesterday morning (in the coffee shop at Harrah's Lake Tahoe).

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476453#post58476453)

be like the rake. or better yet, be the actual rake.

What do you think about the Rampages and Marianos and the Jonny Vibes of the world? Some on here and reddit treat them like they were a part of Epstein island or worse for raking app games. What's your take on this?

by BobbyPeru m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58477141#post58477141)

What do you think about the Rampages and Marianos and the Jonny Vibes of the world? Some on here and reddit treat them like they were a part of Epstein island or worse for raking app games. What's your take on this?

I have no problem with it, if you played on any of those sites youre probably an idiot. if laws were broken by these people to run these sites i assume they wont cry when the feds come. many were running bookmaking operations as well, same shyt

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476922#post58476922)

your bot overlords will not be pleased and now max owes me $1.

Just to be clear, those previous posts weren't deleted by me. Beyond that, I'll leave the settling of the bet to the two of you (did you ever accept? ); I don't want to get caught up in a high stakes scandal. 😃

Skin care/self-care routines/regiments??

by Stumeister m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58477428#post58477428)

Skin care/self-care routines/regiments??

none? rub free soap on my body and head, rinse off, go to golf course, eat lunch, go to casino.

What’s the biggest golf bet you ever made?

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58477972#post58477972)

What’s the biggest golf bet you ever made?

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58313504&postcount=127)

Did you get paid for the 25k golf bet?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476453#post58476453)

never gamble and make a point of never gambling (including soft gambling like playing on a stake, selling pieces or swapping to play bigger than your roll) .be like the rake. or better yet, be the actual rake. play a lot when you feel like playing and dont play at all when you dont. have several interests which you enjoy as much as poker/advantage playnever date a poker player/... See full post

Can you elaborate why you'd classify selling pieces as soft gambling? The smallest plo games in my area tend to be already too big for me (5/10) and I figured selling some action might be prudent.

A lot of this discussion started about high stakes poker being dead and disappearing altogether. I've spent some time looking into this and I don't see this as being the case. I see a lot of 5/10 games spread out across the entire country (live). 10/20 and higher, with structures like 10/20/50 + bb ante, etc are everywhere live. I don't know what's going on in LA as I've always been based out of the NYC area but perhaps SoCal isn't the live poker hub it once was. /shrug. Online? WPN and BOL both have high stakes games running. BOL has had a full pool of 80+ players in the 5/10 zoom for days straight now. WPN has nosebleeds running pretty regularly. 25/50 reg tables are running every night and there are games even higher than that. I sat and watched guys play 100/200 the other afternoon. Wild swings in a short period of time. This, of course, doesn't even mention private games. Regardless of the state of the economy, there will always be people with money and apparently - always be people looking to gamble with it.

Wow that AI mod bot sure is sensitive.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479074#post58479074)

Wow that AI mod bot sure is sensitive.

Try again without the "p" word. 😀

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479089#post58479089)

Try again without the "p" word. 😀

poker?

Ussy ��

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479143#post58479143)

Ussy ��

you say potayto, i say potahto

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479074#post58479074)

Wow that AI mod bot sure is sensitive.

way too sensitive

by ZentralratDerLuden m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58478451#post58478451)

Can you elaborate why you'd classify selling pieces as soft gambling? The smallest plo games in my area tend to be already too big for me (5/10) and I figured selling some action might be prudent.

I dont consider poker a team sport and I believe the one player to a hand rule extends to the necessary game pieces for the contest (chips). most people who sell and swap want to play bigger because of the rush/ego boost. they would actually make more money having 100% of themselves in a smaller game but they have a gambling problem which will only show itself once they are completely broke and muttering about bad beats as they try to get their next stake. players with no gamble are very unlikely to seek out other peoples money to gamble with.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58468846#post58468846)

hosting a poker game is a "free roll" for me. Im going to hang out with gamblers and golf, go to the casino and organize a game play a few hours a week etc etc. no matter what. i might as well get paid for it, its a win/win for the casino and me. I am functionally retired, i dont spend even a minute of each day doing anything but exactly what i want to be doing.

I don't buy it. That 'win/win' hourly is totally meaningless if you have $5m+ and your posts make it seem like you'd prefer golfing to walking around a casino even for risk free $. The boomerang of the Julian story while predictable just isn't something I'd want to be around instead of a golf clubhouse. Seems like it may be a superiority complex...the guys at the casino have way less $ than you but the guys on the golf course are more successful by any measure...or maybe it's an alcohol thing as some of the 'haters' have mentioned. Never too late to cut back if it's the latter, you can afford a comfortable lifestyle and have many years to enjoy

10% of american households have networth of 7+ figures they still work

by critiakx2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479591#post58479591)

I don't buy it. That 'win/win' hourly is totally meaningless if you have $5m+ and your posts make it seem like you'd prefer golfing to walking around a casino even for risk free $. The boomerang of the Julian story while predictable just isn't something I'd want to be around instead of a golf clubhouse. Seems like it may be a superiority complex...the guys at the casino have... See full post

5 million isn't so huge that your wage becomes meaningless, especially in Los Angeles. If I had five million I would continue working for my 40/hr, at least for a few years I would think.

by bigdave2304 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479606#post58479606)

5 million isn't so huge that your wage becomes meaningless, especially in Los Angeles. If I had five million I would continue working for my 40/hr, at least for a few years I would think.

so apparently if you want to go different places during the day at your own leisure and see people you enjoy and do things you enjoy thats bad now? and if you get paid for it its worse? there are some serious freaks on these boards.

by critiakx2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479591#post58479591)

I don't buy it. That 'win/win' hourly is totally meaningless if you have $5m+ and your posts make it seem like you'd prefer golfing to walking around a casino even for risk free $. The boomerang of the Julian story while predictable just isn't something I'd want to be around instead of a golf clubhouse. Seems like it may be a superiority complex...the guys at the casino have... See full post

1. How/When did you meet Wayne Chung aka Winston O. Cash? Part 2. What if your favorite Wayne joke?

what is the lowest point of: business life love life gambling life life in general and how did you climb back if you did

Hey Limon, some big PLO games have been running at Hustler daily, do you only play at the bike or do you go to other places occasionally?

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480096#post58480096)

1. How/When did you meet Wayne Chung aka Winston O. Cash? Part 2. What if your favorite Wayne joke?

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58313286&postcount=102)

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480238#post58480238)

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58313286&postcount=102)

Ok didn’t realize that I may have already asked part 2. It’s an important question and worthy. But part 1 is also crucial. Didn’t you meet him in college or something and room with him?

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480119#post58480119)

what is the lowest point of: business life love life gambling life life in general and how did you climb back if you did

business? uh, none really, i suppose some people would be upset with changing jobs or something but ive never really cared. the day i start something im already thinking about the exit so when the time comes the people who think they are "making a move" have no idea what's about to hit them. more than once ive went from being fired to getting a large 5 or 6 figure "exit package" in 24 hours. ive been with the same chick basically forever at this point. things change but different isn't necessarily worse or better. gambling, probably now, not that its low but its almost over. i have less motivation to gamble every day its around 15 hours a week now, prob less than 10 in a year id guess. but you never know!!! after my second ACL tear i was probably pretty depressed i suppose. i knew my sports days were over and it was just golf from there on out. i dont really climb back because i dont get in holes. im always planning for the worst so the bad stuff that happens is not a big deal. ive been lucky i suppose not to have some crazy major unforeseen accident.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480258#post58480258)

business? uh, none really, i suppose some people would be upset with changing jobs or something but ive never really cared. the day i start something im already thinking about the exit so when the time comes the people who think they are "making a move" have no idea what's about to hit them. more than once ive went from being fired to getting a large 5 or 6 figure "exit package... See full post

Please explain in a little more detail how you turned the table and changed a “you’re fired” situation into a “here’s $100,000+ goodbye and good luck” situation. Thank you sir.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480264#post58480264)

Please explain in a little more detail how you turned the table and changed a “you’re fired” situation into a “here’s $100,000+ goodbye and good luck” situation. Thank you sir.

well just leave that to your imagination for obvious reasons. i will say one of my first finance jobs I was fired by a dipshit scumbag for basically having no respect for him even though i was a top performer. I knew tons of dirt on this idiot but never collected any of it, no actual proof. i instantly learned from that experience and knew it would never happen again. i was always a top/top performer wherever i worked but i rarely suffer fools or bite my tongue so i always needed insurance policies against illegal political termination. Im good friends with one old employer so he never got to see the dossier. lolololol. i always treat others as i wish to be treated and have an impeccable reputation for fairness and honesty in business but im never a sucker. this is long ago though, in poker ive always been basically an independent contractor when working with with people and a winning poker player so theres no reason for me to care about that politics stuff or covering my ass. Its why i chose poker to begin with, not being your own boss is exhausting and perilous depending on your personality. being your own boss is extremely high risk and most fail.

another auto delete, rip

by Droopi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480131#post58480131)

Hey Limon, some big PLO games have been running at Hustler daily, do you only play at the bike or do you go to other places occasionally?

i never travel anywhere to play poker anymore. im wayyyy on the back 9 of my poker career and dont really care about the poker game in general. i just go places where i know people more like a social club.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480264#post58480264)

Please explain in a little more detail how you turned the table and changed a “you’re fired” situation into a “here’s $100,000+ goodbye and good luck” situation. Thank you sir.

i replied in detail but the bot deleted it and im not doing it again. complain to max.

If you were a transgender how would you have approached poker and gambling back in the day. Also,would you have tried to qualify for the lpga?

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479943#post58479943)

so apparently if you want to go different places during the day at your own leisure and see people you enjoy and do things you enjoy thats bad now? and if you get paid for it its worse? there are some serious freaks on these boards.

Strawman arguments don't make your story add up any better. You claimed over 10 years ago you had all these outside cashflow investments and only needed to make $100k/yr or something. Now hosting a semi-private game and being tethered to a shitty casino while not playing is the nut retirement When you go to the golf course do you actually play or do you just drink at the club bar? Maybe work a few hours as a course marshal? You could probably get paid for that too!

by DizzyG m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480428#post58480428)

If you were a transgender how would you have approached poker and gambling back in the day. Also,would you have tried to qualify for the lpga?

hmm, nothing would change with poker. poker is a level playing field. there is no privilege in poker, in fact, in practice its more like "reverse privilege". Any game filled with rich old white men is going to be the best game in the casino guaranteed. they are the fish on a level playing field. golf is different. i will say firstly that i couldn't play well enough as a man or woman to be on the LPGA. ive played with LPGA players at shadow creek (middle tees) and they smoked me! boring golf, plodding around the course almost never missing a shot putting very well and boom, at the end card a very forgettable 2 under. Played with male pros as well and its a different animal, they are making shots I cant even imagine, playing a game im not familiar with (and these were nationwide tour guys). When we played shadow with the women our caddy, who knows im a pretty big gambler on the course said, "try to set up a match with me v. that LPGA pro, ill give as much as 2 a side from tips or even from their tees and still be a big fav". I tried but the ladies wouldn't take it for real money, even they knew a random caddy part time on Mackenzie tour would likely smoke them. BUT, assuming i was a Transgender good enough to play on LPGA, i would 100% do it. LPGA (and all womens "sports") are segregated contests. A segregated contest is not a sport, its an exhibition (male sports before integration were exhibitions and no records set at that time should be taken seriously). A sport is OPEN. Why shouldn't a Transgender play in a contrived segregated exhibition? the purpose is just to sell tickets, no one cares about the "sport" part and thats why its segregated. A transgender would definitely sell more tickets for a while.

by DizzyG m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480428#post58480428)

If you were a transgender how would you have approached poker and gambling back in the day. Also,would you have tried to qualify for the lpga?

i answered this in detail but the bot deleted it. (answer now in "about the forums" thread as an example of the bot gone wild. please go there for answer (its a good one).

now the bot deleted my question about the bot in the about the forums forum . i guess this thread is done. cant post anything.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58481099#post58481099)

i answered this in detail but the bot deleted it. (answer now in "about the forums" thread as an example of the bot gone wild. please go there for answer (its a good one).

I restored it.

Can you restore my deleted posts too please? They’re quite important

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58481125#post58481125)

I restored it.

It’s gone again!!! Can you just moderate this forum. The bot is not ready for prime time. It’s just clicking buttons.

Wtf is wrong with this bot? Stop deleting posts. Limon, are you still hosting your plo game? I haven’t seen it on bravo and Vertucci has been running his mouth that Suited Superman has taken your place as LA plo host goat. Also, I will pm you knee rehab links, I know people that can still dunk without an acl, we can get you back to better than ever before, even if you have a few more Lbs than the glory days.

by Lionelhuttz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58481586#post58481586)

Wtf is wrong with this bot? Stop deleting posts. Limon, are you still hosting your plo game? I haven’t seen it on bravo and Vertucci has been running his mouth that Suited Superman has taken your place as LA plo host goat.Also, I will pm you knee rehab links, I know people that can still dunk without an acl, we can get you back to better than ever before, even if you have a few... See full post

There are no more hosted games at the casino for several months, every game is under the same umbrella now and run by marketing. I am grandfathered in as a floating plo "prop" and do nothing above that. I actually play more mix and limit HE than plo the last few months. I have both knees reconstructed and have no interest in testing them. golf is 100% fine with me at this point. thanks for the offer though!

Limon, do you have a lot of poker history with Greg fullblowntilt Mueller or Phil unibomber Laak? They seemed like the reggiest regs during my short visit to LA decades ago. Any good stories involving these guys?

how do you become a prop player, the 3-4 casinos i've contacted about it during my playing days told me they don't exist

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58481618#post58481618)

how do you become a prop player, the 3-4 casinos i've contacted about it during my playing days told me they don't exist

you gotta be connected. friendly with important people like Wayne Chung

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480258#post58480258)

business? uh, none really, i suppose some people would be upset with changing jobs or something but ive never really cared. the day i start something im already thinking about the exit so when the time comes the people who think they are "making a move" have no idea what's about to hit them. more than once ive went from being fired to getting a large 5 or 6 figure "exit package... See full post

How interesting, I have a net worth of 7 or 11 figures. If you encountered a man also in their 50s with insecurities like yourself, would you suggest they get therapy?

by trampled m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58481737#post58481737)

How interesting, I have a net worth of 7 or 11 figures. If you encountered a man also in their 50s with insecurities like yourself, would you suggest they get therapy?

Therapy? You must be from New York.

by trampled m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58481737#post58481737)

How interesting, I have a net worth of 7 or 11 figures. If you encountered a man also in their 50s with insecurities like yourself, would you suggest they get therapy?

I'm not sure therapy is going to help with your obsession. Maybe.

by marknfw m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58482038#post58482038)

I'm not sure therapy is going to help with your obsession. Maybe.

hes just doing stalker mad libs at this point. epic.

Something weird is going on: I click on the next pate arrow and it reloads the page I am on. (I do 100 posts/page, so I click on the '19' and page 18 reloads.)

Except that that post I just made is the first on page 19. Must be a side effect of the deletions/restorations.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58312145#post58312145)

What im doing is a gift to this dead site but they will probably lock the thread since they want no traffic or interest.

From my recollection aren't you the card shark...the golf hustler, the pimp from Beverly Hills? If I'm wrong please correct me.

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58482196#post58482196)

Except that that post I just made is the first on page 19. Must be a side effect of the deletions/restorations.

The bot has some major defects that are killing this thread.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58482211#post58482211)

From my recollection aren't you the card shark...the golf hustler, the pimp from Beverly Hills? If I'm wrong please correct me.

Be a man...don't be a pimp!

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58481618#post58481618)

how do you become a prop player, the 3-4 casinos i've contacted about it during my playing days told me they don't exist

Props/hosts generally only exist in card rooms and not full casinos. In areas without full casino gaming where card rooms are legal, running poker games early and stealing games from other card rooms is worth millions of dollars. It’s worth it to casino to pay to poach games and vip players. In places with full casino gaming poker is an afterthought and even considered a drag on revenue so they are never going to pay to get more gamblers to play poker. They’d rather you stay in the pits.

Limon Qi10 max or ai smoke max?

by syndr0me m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58483000#post58483000)

Limon Qi10 max or ai smoke max?

Limon Can you translate this to English?

by syndr0me m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58483000#post58483000)

Limon Qi10 max or ai smoke max?

Identical by any performance metric. Just buy the one that matches your outfits i suppose.

Would you rather stay a week in SF, Vegas, or Napa Valley?

get an unenthusiastic handjob or blowjob whenever you want or good sex once per year

by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58483093#post58483093)

Limon Can you translate this to English?

taylor made's new driver vs callaways new driver

Limon will be doing the commentary on ballys live stream wed. the 6th 3pm. It is going to make his stalker slaves very mad because he is getting paid for it. apparently once youre worth many MANY millions of dollars youre not supposed to get paid for anything anymore. Dont tell this to literally ANY RICH PERSON ON THE PLANET. Limon will also be talking about himself in the 3rd person and liking his own post to send his slaves into a nuclear grade jealous rage. stalker slaves gonna stalker slave!

by bigdave2304 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58483496#post58483496)

Would you rather stay a week in SF, Vegas, or Napa Valley?

yes.

Please post a link to the Wayne Chung march 6 thing thanks lemon

looks like my question got deleted, man this bot sucks

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58484479#post58484479)

looks like my question got deleted, man this bot sucks

The bot is so bad. Just let someone mod the forum.

Undeleted ftm.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58484479#post58484479)

looks like my question got deleted, man this bot sucks

the bot does suck but im not answering that one! private life will stay private. i am definitely not a literal legend of sexploits.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58484731#post58484731)

The bot is so bad. Just let someone mod the forum.

Noone wants to mod the guy who can’t control himself, except the bot. Bot doesn’t mind babysitting children.

by marknfw m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58485008#post58485008)

Noone wants to mod the guy who can’t control himself, except the bot. Bot doesn’t mind babysitting children.

want to bet? how much. dont run! you are very smart and made a very smart statement. LETS BET!

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58484736#post58484736)

Undeleted ftm.

thank you. youre the only thing holding this thread together.

Its funny people say poker is back and have no idea they really had 15+ 10/20 NLs during the LAPC back in the glory days haha

Who is a bigger donkey…Big Harry or little harry?

by BK1248 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58485419#post58485419)

Its funny people say poker is back and have no idea they really had 15+ 10/20 NLs during the LAPC back in the glory days haha

the people scraping around for the meager scraps of what's left of the poker industry have no sense of perspective. its why they cant tell its shrinking daily. they are like the parable of the boiling frog IRL.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58485425#post58485425)

Who is a bigger donkey…Big Harry or little harry?

big harry is a great dude, fun to hang out with, and a tough poker player when hes trying. Little harry I have had one business dealing with and it all worked out. thats all i know. Both are fun to have at the table and make for a gamble gamble atmosphere whether they are winning or losing.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58483503#post58483503)

get an unenthusiastic handjob or blowjob whenever you want or good sex once per year

you may have missed this getting undeleted - it's super important obviously

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58471760#post58471760)

early march im told. me and wayne will be back in the booth calling some "big bet" poker action!

drop the link

Anymore Wan stories ? He was such a legend, whats weird was , he would come downstairs and order from the servers and just vent to me about how he thought he would die early. It was so strange.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58486026#post58486026)

drop the link

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4KFneaL6... (https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4KFneaL6Fj/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)

I like the young man stories best tbh

by BK1248 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58486101#post58486101)

Anymore Wan stories ? He was such a legend, whats weird was , he would come downstairs and order from the servers and just vent to me about how he thought he would die early. It was so strange.

ya, wan was a volatile dude, really nice at times and really mean at times. and , ya, he seemed to always be downstairs eating back when the commerce gave free food. those days are long gone.

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58486707#post58486707)

I like the young man stories best tbh

here's an OLD one about black gary (close enough) The legendary michael jordan of railbirds Gebrehiwet Goitem (aka GG. aka black gary)

walked up to legendary nefarious character and blonde bombshell Kenny Tran (aka sick call. aka Vietnamese google)

in the middle of Commerce top section and knocked his ass out (allegedly).

(possible after photo) Black gary texted me a cryptic, "rematch in vegas" when i asked for the story and then asked for me to put him in Colossus which wasnt overly helpful. (<--- all true) apparently Kenny changed the order of the plaques in 200-400 mix and gary thought he was playing a different game and got felted. he wanted he money back and kenny told him to **** off. prob bad idea to tell a guy who lives in his car and just got felted to **** off.

What’s worse. vertucci playing on his own stream or vertucci commenting on his own stream?

lol any responses quoting my question get deleted lol this bot sucks

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58487101#post58487101)

lol any responses quoting my question get deleted lol this bot sucks

The bot deleted my last post for no reason. The bot is a complete disaster. Many people want to mod this forum. The bot needs to go!!!!!

by Grimstard m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58487070#post58487070)

What’s worse. vertucci playing on his own stream or vertucci commenting on his own stream?

Oh playing. And it’s not close. Commenting makes no difference.

No need to worry or mention bot deleted posts. When I get a chance to read the thread I'll undelete any bot screwups. You can also PM me instead of cluttering the thread with bot comments.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58487216#post58487216)

Oh playing. And it’s not close. Commenting makes no difference.

But have you heard his commentating? It’s god awful

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58487237#post58487237)

No need to worry or mention bot deleted posts. When I get a chance to read the thread I'll undelete any bot screwups. You can also PM me instead of cluttering the thread with bot comments.

Thank you sir. I owe you a beer.