10 years as a live pro, mostly 2/5, approaching $1 million lifetime profit, AMA

As the title suggests, I thought it would be fun to do an AMA for the 2+2 community to see if I can provide some insight into what it's like being a successful low to mid stakes live pro for an entire decade. Admittedly part of my motivation is definitely a little bit of pride and vanity. Hitting this milestone of living off poker for 10 years is very exciting for me, and I admit I am proud of what I have accomplished, and I'm taking this time to reflect a little bit. I've come a long way in 10 years, from being pretty much broke to living a very comfortable middle class lifestyle. I decided to stay anonymous which will definitely hurt my credibility, but hopefully the community will give me the benefit of the doubt, and this thread can be informative and fun for the people who find it. I'll give as much good detail as I can without giving anything away that might allow the people in my local card rooms to figure out who I am. I simply don't want that much attention IRL My background I found my first success in poker around 2009-2010 on Pokerstars before Black Friday. I wasn't making anything crazy, I think most months I made around $500-1500, which was a lot of money to me at the time on top of my regular low paying jobs. After Black Friday that changed a little bit, I was trying to make money on the unregulated Merge Network, and I definitely made some money but it was quite a grind and not very fun. Early 2013 I started going to my local casino to play 1/2, I think when I started doing this I had all of about $2-3K to my name. Thankfully I ran good, started off with several winning sessions, and quickly got to the point where I wasn't at serious risk of dusting all of it at this stake. Prior to these casino ventures, I was working quite a lot of hours at multiple low paying jobs and just hustling for anywhere from 50-80 hours a week. Once I started making money at poker I scaled this down, and late 2013 I decided to quit to pursue poker full time, and the rest is history. At the time I still had under $10K to my name, so in hindsight it was very premature to quit my job, but thankfully I never had a downswing at that time and I was never in danger. In addition, I could've gotten my job back if I really needed it. Anyways, from that point I worked very hard, eventually started to play 2/5 which is really where I cemented myself for a long time. Later on I would go on to play live MTTs, and sometimes play games bigger than 2/5, but 2/5 is really my meat and potatoes, and where most of my income has been made. Here is an approximate breakdown of where and how much I've made over the last decade. Since I'm talking total profit as a professional, I'll include all promotional earnings such as high hands. Naturally this is only a small portion of the total profit from cash games 1/2 and 1/3 games: $80K 2/5 and similar: $600K Live tournaments: $200K 5/10 and similar: $30K Bigger than 5/10: -$20K App games during COVID (mostly 2/4 NL and smaller): $50K Total: ~$940K I also made about $30K in a successful staking and coaching arrangement, but that was a one-off investment for me, it's not something I really care to do in the future. A lot of people, especially people with a big appetite for gambling, might be kind of incredulous that someone would stay primarily at 2/5 for so long, and I'm happy to elaborate on this throughout the thread, but my staying at this stake has a lot to do with the fact that initially when I took shots in games bigger than 2/5, I got absolutely destroyed. This includes 5/10, for a long time I was down a ton at that stake. Over the years I've game selected 5/10 more, and I'm now up a modest amount, and I'm also a lot more comfortable playing it, but for a long time the thought of moving up was very mentally draining. I'm still down a good amount at 10/25 or similar, as almost everytime I took a shot I got smashed. Another reason I stayed primarily at 2/5 cash is that I started branching out heavily into live MTTs, and I wasn't keen on doing tournaments and bigger cash at the same time. I was drawn into them by how ridiculously soft the fields were, and also the allure of a big payday. Some years my split between cash games and tourneys was pretty close to 50/50 or 60/40, although lately I have scaled down my tournament play for a number of reasons. Overall, my tournament results have been decent, but I also think it's fairly likely that my net worth and overall poker profit would be higher if I had never played them and just focused on being a pure cash player. No regrets though, I think becoming proficient at tournaments has improved me as a player, and there is also a lot to be said for the fun aspect of getting to play different formats, having the opportunity to make life changing money in just a few days, and so on. Another thing for people to consider regarding which stake to play: I think if you're doing everything properly, including paying taxes, enjoying life, investing your money in stuff like retirement, it probably should take a lot longer to move up than most people realize. If you make $100K in a year at 2/5, you pay your taxes, max out your Roth IRA, pay all living expenses and maybe take a trip or 2, you really don't have a ton left over to add to your bankroll. Overall I'm pretty happy with my risk profile as a pro. the 2/5 games, despite what some pessimistic mediocre regs might tell you, are still spectacularly profitable, whereas games bigger than 2/5 can vary dramatically, and very often, at least in my part of the country, are extremely reg infested. I definitely want to take a few more opportunities to play in them moving forward, as I do think I can increase my hourly even further, but also I don't mind if the next 5+ years of my career are still primarily at 2/5. I honestly would not be surprised if eventually my 2/5 profit exceeds $1 million dollars, which is pretty bonkers to me. How many people do you think have made a million dollars in public 2/5 games in the US? I feel like the number has to be crazily small, like under 5 or 3. I'm not there yet, but it seems likely, as I have no designs on a career change! Some fun facts about my career: Best year: ~200K Worst year: ~30K (was pretty early on, and was largely from bricking tourneys and lowered cash volume) Biggest cash pot won: $11K (not that impressive) Biggest cash pot lost: Also about $11K Biggest tourney win: Just under $100K I'll link my 2/5 results that I have in my current tracker. It is not the entirety of the results, as I have switched apps a few times. In total I think I've played about 10,000 hours of 2/5 , but it gives visual to my general profitability as a player

Anyways, those are the cliff notes of my story. I'm hoping to drum up some good questions that I can field and provide some value to this community. I welcome most questions, whether its how my income has varied year to year, lifestyle, BRM, mental game, taxes, investing, or anything else. Thanks for reading!

Hey great results and consistency. I read your first post and skimmed a few questions but haven’t read them all. Did you mainly play the best hours like evenings and weekends? What would you estimate your hourly was for Friday and Saturday nights at 2/5?

Have you considered moving in the past in order to play juicier/bigger games? I understand with your gf now probably not feasible. Have you ever been staked for tourneys or cash? I suppose it isn't worth it given your financial situation to get staked for something like 5/10 would have to be higher. Ever delve into private games? If so how did that go?

Came back after a long layoff and I saw there are some posts on this thread, so I figured I would give a little update and answer the questions Life has been good, have had some positive things happen personally that have lead to me playing way less poker, but I’m still on pace to have about a $100K year working 25-30 hours a week 😀 by WPNdonk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58658790#post58658790)

Have you considered moving in the past in order to play juicier/bigger games? I understand with your gf now probably not feasible. Have you ever been staked for tourneys or cash? I suppose it isn't worth it given your financial situation to get staked for something like 5/10 would have to be higher. Ever delve into private games? If so how did that go?

I did move for poker during my career. I didn’t include specifics in my post because I want to maintain my anonymity the best I can, but suffice it to say I’m living in a good part of the country for poker and I’m happy I did it. I’ve never been staked for cash, in fact I don’t think I’ve ever played a hand of cash where I didn’t have 100% of myself. You are correct that it would have to be a unique opportunity for me to do it. If I somehow had access to a juicy 25/50 game or something, I’m pretty confident I could sell pieces without much issue I’ve definitely sold action in tourneys though. It’s way easier because of the transparency of the results, and also because people are very inclined to buy pieces of live tournaments for the sweat of a big score. Being staked for live MTTs with makeup though sounds like a special form of poker hell, and I would never ever do this to myself haha. Never really played private games. Hard for me to get invited. by rickyt88 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58658675#post58658675)

Hey great results and consistency. I read your first post and skimmed a few questions but haven’t read them all. Did you mainly play the best hours like evenings and weekends? What would you estimate your hourly was for Friday and Saturday nights at 2/5?

When I was single I would definitely try to play most of my hours during peak times, but certainly not all of them. I believe in having a good work/life balance and I’ve played plenty of hours at all times of day, and all days of the week. And the thing is, I don’t think games are necessarily a ton better on weekends. While traffic will often be at the highest, every reg feels compelled to play those days, so it’s not uncommon at all for me to be in a fantastic game on a Tuesday night, and really reggy games on Friday I don’t have to speculate, I can tell you which days I’ve made the most per hour over like a 9000 hour sample at 2/5, and you might be surprised by the answers. I think there’s a lot of randomness to it, and you shouldn’t read into it too much. From highest hourly to lowest: Thursday Friday Monday Wednesday Sunday Saturday Tuesday Highest is $106/hour on Thursday, lowest is $33 on Tuesday. Again, I really don’t think you can read too much since each day is only like a 1000 hour sample on average (naturally I’ve played some days a lot more than others) The best thing you can do if you have flexibility is to stay in good games as long as you can, and if games suck, maybe go enjoy your life a little and do something else. Obviously this isn’t always possible if you have real responsibilities, but if you’re single and responsibility free, this is the way.

Good to see you back. I don't know if you have seen it, but 2+2 now has a "ask me anything' sub-forum listed in the side bar under the Poker News and Discussion" section. You could ask the mods to move this thread there and likely get more interaction.

What live poker tracking app do you use? I'm trying to find something simple that doesn't bog me down with too many features. What was your biggest aha moment in poker in terms of getting better at the game? How well do you think an online 100NL reg with a 6bb/100 winrate would do at 2/5?

by TheGodson m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58705507#post58705507)

What live poker tracking app do you use? I'm trying to find something simple that doesn't bog me down with too many features. What was your biggest aha moment in poker in terms of getting better at the game? How well do you think an online 100NL reg with a 6bb/100 winrate would do at 2/5?

I use poker income pro, I’ve always used it and am happy with the product. Hmmm, biggest aha moment is hard to say. I feel like my career has been a series of small aha moments. Learning how to play pretty balanced as a baseline (which I definitely was not when I was a winning pro, in say, 2016), and understanding why you deviate so much at 2/5, that was a big change that made me dramatically better. One of the biggest improvements was perhaps realizing how much I was punting in certain ICM spots in tourneys. Pay jumps and stack configurations can alter your ranges in such dramatic ways, it definitely is one of the coolest aspects of tourney poker As for how well an Nl100 winner is gonna do at live 2/5, I’m far from the right person to answer that, since I basically have never played online cash. Shot in the dark, if you’re winning 6bb/100 online, you may be winning like 6-8bb/hour live, assuming you learn to make the crazy adjustments and exploit plays that are necessary against clueless casual players. But I could be way off on my estimate

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58236663#post58236663)

... See full post

I saw that I made this thread almost exactly a year ago, and I figured it would be fun to give an updated image of my 2/5 sample, which is what I included in my OP Looks like in that time, I played 1068 hours of 2/5 and made about $100K, increasing my career hourly pretty nicely I’ve actually been hitting fairly close to $100/hour at 2/5 for a couple of years now. Do I think that is surely sustainable? Perhaps not. But I do suspect something around $70-85 is reasonable. This is not including high hands and other promotional winnings, which beef up my total income pretty nicely. I also played some 5/10 and some tourneys in the last year (small profits at both), but I’m not including that, as to have a more direct comparison with my original post Definitely well over $1 mil lifetime now!

()

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58243122#post58243122)

Other one was something like open to 25, 1 call, I make it 115, a shorty goes all in for like $325, original raiser folds, and the caller now jams like $1600.This one was more based on the nittiness of the player, I’m just purely convinced that the trappy flat pre, and this massive backraise is just always AA. Again, super slim chance it’s KK but just 1 combo so I let it go and... See full post

If you ever get to commerce remember that weird trappy backraise is basically a standard fish play with AK now. THOSE KINGS ARE GOLD!

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58714561#post58714561)

If you ever get to commerce remember that weird trappy backraise is basically a standard fish play with AK now. THOSE KINGS ARE GOLD!

Yeah I definitely would never fold against a random on the road. There is a subset of my player pool that drastically undervalues AK though and they will never make the big backraise with it

Great thread, really appreciate your contributions and thoughtful answers. What do you tell people you do? Have you experienced judgment and stigma as a poker pro? I currently have a business thanks to family connections but I used to play pro and always had a hard time telling people what I did, such as on dates, at parties, and talking to relatives. Few people seem genuinely interested and many seem to think “that sounds degenerate” and “what a waste of life”. That was part of why I quit, but I was of course also fortunate enough to have other options given to me by family.

I play the pipe organ

1 do games above 2/5 regularly spread where you primarily play? if so, then what keeps you from playing them? furthermore, what would you say were the barriers that you were able to cross going from 1-2 to 2-5 that you aren't willing/trying to cross at 5/T+ and how much of a gap is there between 1-2 to 2-5 to 5-T? 2 have you looked into other forms of advantage gambling? 3 what aspects or study (you don't need to get into specifics if you don't want to burn an edge, but i'd prefer a "no comment" to some bs) did you undertake that you think helped your game the most 4 what do you tell people you do when they ask you for the first time as far as options for transitions, i agree very much with spyu's sales suggestion - that's a line of work that can pay very well to those who excel at it and since it's often mostly commission basis the barrier to breaking into it is lower than other careers as taking a chance on someone and whiffing isn't too costly - for a lot of companies, the highest paid people are their top salesmen because their earnings are uncapped and they are usually appreciated more by the higher ups because what they bring in is tangible - what joe the engineer or laura the marketer actually contribute is unknown but the sales guy who decided to cold contact a prospective enterprise sale and bring in a 6 figures of sales from them each month is going to get all the credit

by pokerfan655 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58238809#post58238809)

Good for you - I have similar stats but more so in the online MTT scene and transitioned out a couple years ago. Biggest issues I see with poker is the scalability and the labor involved. You need to physically be there to make money so your trading your time, and there's only 1 of you so your capped at whatever your hourly is. Taxes are also tough assuming you pay right - the ... See full post

Best post I've read in this thread so far. by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58238835#post58238835)

I agree but this isn’t unique at all to poker. Most anybody with a regular job also deals with the lack of scale

It's obviously true of any clock-in/clock-out job, but those also come with the advantages of a clock-in/clock-out job. Poker is one of those jobs where the time, effort and resources that go into physically being at the "office" doing the "job" itself is only the tip of the iceberg. There's all the studying, travel, networking, and of course the amount of capital parked in your bankroll. But even just the tip of the iceberg requires you to be clocked in for 1000+ hours a year with less-than-astronomical-potential for your rate in most any realistic setting. It's like a clock-in / never clock out job? Hotel California ass occupation.

Sorry, I guess I should have a question. This part of OP jumped out to me the most: "Prior to these casino ventures, I was working quite a lot of hours at multiple low paying jobs and just hustling for anywhere from 50-80 hours a week." Would it be accurate to say you have a greater-than-average work ethic, particularly compared to other live pros? Was the adjustment to the poker work routine a tough adjustment, a breath of fresh air, or more of the same? How "in control" of your success do you feel? Do you always feel like you can grind/study through any rough patches, or does existential tilt start to creep in at all during breakeven stretches?

by PatPat8 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58721908#post58721908)

Great thread, really appreciate your contributions and thoughtful answers. What do you tell people you do? Have you experienced judgment and stigma as a poker pro?I currently have a business thanks to family connections but I used to play pro and always had a hard time telling people what I did, such as on dates, at parties, and talking to relatives. Few people seem genuinely ... See full post

Outside of poker, I’m almost always honest. Like with my girl’s family, I always am very forthcoming, answer their inevitable questions, and almost always they are interested in and happy with what I have to say. I’ve always been pretty good at articulating what I do, how I derive an edge, how cash games aren’t really that swingy relative to my net worth, and so on. In the poker room, I’m played around with lying, but honestly I play with the same people all the time, they know after a while that I have to be a pro. So for many years now, I’ve gone with honesty, and I try to just change the subject or get them to not harp on it. Occasionally someone will really latch on and ask a bunch of questions, and I just answer them politely and (fairly) honestly. by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58721995#post58721995)

1 do games above 2/5 regularly spread where you primarily play? if so, then what keeps you from playing them?furthermore, what would you say were the barriers that you were able to cross going from 1-2 to 2-5 that you aren't willing/trying to cross at 5/T+ and how much of a gap is there between 1-2 to 2-5 to 5-T?2 have you looked into other forms of advantage gambling?3 what ... See full post

Public games above 2/5 run “sometimes” but certainly not regularly. And I do play them some now! I’ve probably played a few hundred hours of 5/10 in the last few years. Not crazy volume, but I have no issues jumping in a game The problem is, a fair percentage of the time, I’ll look at the lineup and it really isn’t that good. On a given day, I might estimate that my hourly would be about the same in the 5/10 as it is in 2/5, but with probably 4-7x the swings. There’s an argument for just always getting in there, battling, and trying to push myself and my career as much as possible, but sometimes, it’s just as simple as “I don’t feel like leaving a 2/5 game with 6 fish to go battle the other 4-5 best regs in the room” As for 1/2 to 2/5, I never really ran into any hiccups. It felt like 2/5 players were almost as bad as at 1/2, and I crushed pretty much as soon as I moved up. Certainly there are more regs, but overall the fish are still really bad, and the rake isn’t as soul crushing at 2/5 as it is in lower games. But at 5/10, it’s pretty common for half, or more than half, of the seats to be taken by people who have pretty solid strategies. They’ll have leaks and imbalances, sure, but the skill gulf between 2/5 and 5/10 has always seemed massive to me, on average Obviously sometimes an amazing 5/10 game consisting of mostly 2/5 whales pops off, and of course I’m in there if I can get a seat! 2. I’ve never seriously looked at other forms of AP. I know for card counting you need a massive roll and it’s still a small edge, and all the other little hustles that I’ve heard about over the years just never interested me. 3. I think I’ve definitely given some insight ITT on this. It’s hard to point to 1 or 2 specific things that really revolutionized my game. I’ll try to give a few bullet points off the cuff here -Earlier in my career, just talking tons and tons of hands with people at my level, or a little better, helped me to understand different ways of looking at the game (even some that I thought were flawed) and I fixed plenty of leaks this way. -I haven’t done extensive solver work, but I’ve definitely done SOME, and I think that was helpful for really understanding what proper strategy looks like at equilibrium, and it helped to shape my thoughts on why I make such drastic deviations at live 2/5. It also helped me a lot in choosing sizings based on different textures. I remember watching a bunch of Nick Petrangelo videos years ago that were pretty eye opening -Understanding what you’re targeting and what you’re trying to accomplish with every decision point you make. It sounds super simple, but a surprisingly small percentage of players, even winning players, can coherently explain why they made all of their decisions. Quiz yourself on some of your murkier spots and see how well you can make sense of your actions. 4. As I said to the first guy, I generally opt for honesty these days! by RaiseAnnounced m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58722492#post58722492)

Sorry, I guess I should have a question. This part of OP jumped out to me the most:"Prior to these casino ventures, I was working quite a lot of hours at multiple low paying jobs and just hustling for anywhere from 50-80 hours a week."Would it be accurate to say you have a greater-than-average work ethic, particularly compared to other live pros? Was the adjustment to the poker... See full post

I think my work ethic is above average, but not crazy. Most years over the last 7 or so, I’ve definitely averaged less than 40 hours a week playing. Poker has completely and utterly changed my life. The jobs I worked before were bad jobs for little money, and I am full of gratitude for finding this path. I believe I would’ve found my way in something else eventually, but poker success came to me quite expediently. I feel very in control of my success. The only time that wavers is if I play a lot of tournament volume. Tournaments are a completely different animal, especially if you’re playing big fields, I’m pretty confident in saying I will never fully rely on tournaments for money. With cash, 2/5 and even 5/10 downswings constitute such a low % of my net worth that they really just don’t bother me. If you make good money over 10-15 years and invest diligently and intelligently, you should be on a path to being a millionaire. My s/o and I are on that path, so downswinging a handful of buy ins is just no big deal at all. Also, without trying to sound like a braggart, I crush these 2/5 games so hard that any kind of losing or break even stretch is exceedingly rare 😃

thanks - very interesting i don't play much anymore but it was abroad where games were always really deep with either microstakes available at home games (most home or bar games were the equivalent of 0.10/0.20 blind but people still bought in for $300 but then when people played higher it'd be like $10/$20 so i never experienced the process of moving up in stakes but instead just playing whatever was availabe in lineups that i thought i could beat and that often meant borrowing money from someone to cover the buyin one night at a 25/50 game at someone's apartment where if i had a bad session i'd be in a terrible situation followed by a .10/.20 game the next night at a bar i always struggled with telling people what i did, mostly because they didn't believe me because i'm such a space cadet irl that most people thought it was a cover and i was just some trust fund kid dumping his parent's money - much like how nik airball, alan keating, bilzerian, and helloitslynne profess to be professional poker players but everyone is convinced he's a rich trust fund guy just losing his parent's money but unlike with me they actually are just trust fund kids living out a fantasy and dumping piles

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58722598#post58722598)

thanks - very interestingi don't play much anymore but it was abroad where games were always really deep with either microstakes available at home games (most home or bar games were the equivalent of 0.10/0.20 blind but people still bought in for $300 but then when people played higher it'd be like $10/$20 so i never experienced the process of moving up in stakes but instead ju... See full post

Is being a poker pro really something trust fund kids fantasize about being? I am sort of a trust fund kid but poker pro seems to be something that’s always been looked down on in my circles like it’s something shady. I know of drug dealers who pretend to be poker pros to wash their cash but not trust fund kids especially not ones from a good background.

by PatPat8 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58723728#post58723728)

Is being a poker pro really something trust fund kids fantasize about being? I am sort of a trust fund kid but poker pro seems to be something that’s always been looked down on in my circles like it’s something shady. I know of drug dealers who pretend to be poker pros to wash their cash but not trust fund kids especially not ones from a good background.

1.3% of americans do not need to work due to having a trust fund - that seems like a very small number but think about how many doctors you know and then realize that's more people than there are doctors now many of them still work and live normal lives because that's how they want to live, but many don't and become the idle rich the idle rich don't ever want to say at social gatherings "i don't do anything" as that's really embarrassing, so they'll often lean heavily into a hobby as their identity you'll hear someone tell you "i'm a photographer" and they'll show you their work where they went to the amazon for one shoot, an active volcano for another, then egypt and north pole - but even they are selling their photos, it's not enough to cover their travel expenses to get those shots and they are selling them just for the brand recognition they get when they can say at the party I had the nat geo march cover photo last year they are not going to introduce themselves as "i don't need to work but i really like traveling and taking interesting photos"

() so a lot of the idle rich who are drawn to gambling and casinos will try to parlay that into "i'm a professional" in order to save face and some do a very good job of it - take allan kessler, someone who lives off his multi-millionaire sister and loses money every single year Twitter Embed (https://x.com/ChainsawTracker/status/1742917660634132512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA)

(https://twitter.com/ChainsawTracker)

ChainsawTracker (https://twitter.com/ChainsawTracker)@ChainsawTracker (https://twitter.com/ChainsawTracker)· Follow (https://x.com/intent/follow?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA&screen_name=ChainsawTracker)

(https://x.com/ChainsawTracker/status/1742917660634132512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA) Time to wrap up Chainsaw’s 2023 results!

237 entries costing $300k 53 cashes for $209k

Net result of -$91,841 on the year.

@AllenKessler (https://x.com/AllenKessler?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA) did have at least 3 wins according to Hendon Mob, so there’s that…

Let’s see what 2024 brings. I think it’s the year of the saw!

(https://x.com/ChainsawTracker/status/1742917660634132512/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA)

2:35 PM · Jan 4, 2024 (https://x.com/ChainsawTracker/status/1742917660634132512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA)

(https://help.x.com/x-for-websites-ads-info-and-privacy) 140 (https://x.com/intent/like?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA&tweet_id=1742917660634132512)Reply (https://x.com/intent/tweet?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA&in_reply_to=1742917660634132512) Copy link

Read 41 replies (https://x.com/ChainsawTracker/status/1742917660634132512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1742917660634132512%7Ctwgr%5Ed92b6263b4b8733b2a3545e4eeee87cf6ff052d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FAsk-Me-Anything%2F134l8%2F10-years-as-a-live-pro-mostly-25-approaching-1-million-lifetime-profit-AMA)

Expand Tweet but because he presents himself not as a degen loser scumming off his wealthy sister but as a professional poker player he gets a lot of podcast invites and articles written about him - he can go to a party and tell people he's an advantage gambler and people who look it up casually will be fooled so obviously when the choice is "i'm an unemployed degenerate scumming off my family" vs "i'm a professional poker player" you know which one they'll take every time also, poker is obviously not the norm, the most common variants are artists, ngo/charity, and academia, etc this doesn't mean that some drug dealers etc don't also try to use poker as a way to hide their true source of income and perhaps nik airball is actually the meth king of southern california and not just a trust fund brat cosplaying as something else

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58237749#post58237749)

Games becoming unbeatable has worried people for almost my entire career. I honestly think I’m as profitable, or more profitable, than ever. My hourly over the last 2 years definitely reflects that. Part of it is because I’ve continued to improve, and part of it is because, imo, even though games have gotten less “crazy” the chances in any given session ... See full post

Based on your answer here and your prior declaration of living in the East, you either don't live in the Northeast or made a great effort at disguising the fact that you do live there. Somehow I'm leaning towards the latter. So. How are the 2/5 games in Atlantic City, Foxwoods, and/or other spots in New England, Live Pro?

by mrcnkwcz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58746735#post58746735)

Based on your answer here and your prior declaration of living in the East, you either don't live in the Northeast or made a great effort at disguising the fact that you do live there. Somehow I'm leaning towards the latter. So. How are the 2/5 games in Atlantic City, Foxwoods, and/or other spots in New England, Live Pro?

You’re correct that I don’t want my exact location to be public. I will concede that I’ve played in the New England states very little, my only times in AC were during tournament series, and during those times, I found the cash to be pretty good at Borgata

whats the place in USA to live if u want to access nature like real forest , real lakes , etc. and requirement is to be able play holdem at a casino. Ideally 2/5 running daily and not like too much of small town vibe (not sure if small town vibe is bad in usa) but like foreigner friendly etc. job opportunities and so on . No need to be big city either! Cold climate is okay . As long as not like super hot / humid .

by Djerevan m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58749767#post58749767)

whats the place in USA to live if u want to access nature like real forest , real lakes , etc. and requirement is to be able play holdem at a casino. Ideally 2/5 running daily and not like too much of small town vibe (not sure if small town vibe is bad in usa) but like foreigner friendly etc. job opportunities and so on . No need to be big city either! Cold climate is okay . A... See full post

The first place that jumps out in my mind is Black Hawk, Colorado. I know you said no small town vibe, but you’re like 40 minutes from Denver, it’s possible you could find somewhere in between the two (I’m not intimately familiar with the area, even though I’ve been there a couple times). I understand the 2/5 is soft, and Colorado is beautiful, it’s one of THE states for outdoor stuff obv My second answer is any number of places in Cali. Another spectacular state for outdoorsy stuff, with just tons of 2/5 and 5/10 in the decent rooms throughout the state. Rake is higher, CoL is higher, but the players are bad enough to mitigate it. Playing 5/10 in Cali feels a lot like 2/5 in other parts of the country You might have more options in the Pacific Northwest but unfortunately I don’t really know much about that region

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58750895#post58750895)

The first place that jumps out in my mind is Black Hawk, Colorado. I know you said no small town vibe, but you’re like 40 minutes from Denver, it’s possible you could find somewhere in between the two (I’m not intimately familiar with the area, even though I’ve been there a couple times). I understand the 2/5 is soft, and Colorado is beautiful, it’s one of THE states for outdoo... See full post

Thank you so much!

Amazing thread! I was really inspired by your story. I have a few direct questions that could help me a lot on my journey: Have you ever considered getting staked to play higher limits in private games? With your win rate, I imagine it wouldn’t be difficult to find backers. Have you always been this disciplined, or did you ever have any ‘degen’ leaks in the past (like gambling, drugs, or women)? Do you know any succesfull long term reg with bit outside of poker leaks? Do you ever feel conflicted about taking advantage of losing players? I recently developed a stronger connection to my religion, and I sometimes struggle internally with seeing clear gambling addicts lose their money consistently while winning players take advantage from it. Have you ever thought about this side of the dark side of poker?

by luz4ggro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58791856#post58791856)

Amazing thread! I was really inspired by your story. I have a few direct questions that could help me a lot on my journey:Have you ever considered getting staked to play higher limits in private games? With your win rate, I imagine it wouldn’t be difficult to find backers.Have you always been this disciplined, or did you ever have any ‘degen’ leaks in the past (like gambling, d... See full post

Yeah I’ve certainly considered it. I actually think it’s perhaps something I should have pursued earlier in my career. I think what kept me from doing it was a combination of simply wanting all my own action (not answering to somebody else) and also humility about my skills as a player. I had doubts about my ability to beat big games. These doubts were fueled by running very poorly in the few times I jumped into juicer big games. In hindsight, I think I probably would have done well if I had taken shots and had people put me in games that were bigger than 5/10 It’s not a big regret though, I have to say I’m pleased with how my career has panned out. I have good financial security and am steadily on my way to complete financial independence. When it comes to money and frugality, I’ve always been disciplined. I have other areas of my life where I woefully lack discipline. I feel bad sometimes, especially when I know somebody is really degen, or sometimes when I see guys who I know have young kids at home just spending every night at the casino dumping their money, but everybody is free to do what they want, there are plenty of jobs besides poker where you aren’t really “benefitting society”, and most people are not like this, they have the money to spare and they lose it somewhat responsibly. Yeah I wouldn’t mind a purer job sometimes, and perhaps later in life I will have them, but there are many horrors in this world, and the vast majority of us don’t do much to make the world a better place, so I can’t give myself too much flack as a poker player. I believe I am doing some good in my personal life (which I deliberately haven’t gotten into to much in this thread)

Your winnings are very impressive. I want to know how you deal with controlling your 'going on tilt' times. Do you play a pretty much stable game or do you ever lose control when down money at a session/game and decide to start tilting or gambling. I assume you have this in check for the most part given your incredible achievements to date. thanks,

by Munchies11 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821915#post58821915)

Your winnings are very impressive. I want to know how you deal with controlling your 'going on tilt' times. Do you play a pretty much stable game or do you ever lose control when down money at a session/game and decide to start tilting or gambling. I assume you have this in check for the most part given your incredible achievements to date. thanks,

Tilt is essentially not a thing for me at 2/5. I honestly don’t think I’ve been perturbed a single time this entire year or last year to a level that would affect my play. I win at such a high rate, and my net worth has grown over the years to a level where 2/5 swings, bad players hitting 2 outers on me, and stuff like that, just don’t even register anymore. That’s not to say I am totally emotionless, I think an easy example of something that would mildly annoy me is if I’m up a good amount all session, and at the very end I get dusted and end up even or down on the day. But “mildly annoyed” is the key, and I wouldn’t say I play any differently. When I play bigger, I find that I am absolutely more emotional, and that’s a hard thing to control. Just focusing on strategy, and perhaps playing a pip or 2 tighter in a lot of positions, to make sure that I’m not getting out of line, is all I ever do. If I ever find myself so irritated that I think my judgement is clouded, I will step away from the table for a bit, or if it’s a mediocre game anyways, I’ll just leave. It’s rare, but I’ve done that at 5/10 in the last couple years

Do you think your win rate varies by locale? Do you believe (or know) if your bb/hr is higher at your home room? I would guess yes, because you know the player pool so much better than when you travel (keyword is guess)? If you're an unicorn overall then don't you really stick out in your home room? Don't the other regs know how to play you back? Or why don't they? How would you rate the quality of an average reg this year versus 5 or 10 years ago? Great thread, thanks. Your ability to be uber consistent and beat rake and tips for an actual liveable rate is really impressive. [No reply to this: I'll guess Baltimore.]

by Gadflier2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58822443#post58822443)

Do you think your win rate varies by locale? Do you believe (or know) if your bb/hr is higher at your home room? I would guess yes, because you know the player pool so much better than when you travel (keyword is guess)?If you're an unicorn overall then don't you really stick out in your home room? Don't the other regs know how to play you back? Or why don't they?How would you ... See full post

I think my win rate does vary by locale, but it has less to do with having reads on people, and more to do with just the skill level in the room. I think there are rooms, and regions in the country, that are far, far softer than others. I happen to think I’m in one of the better regions in the country. For sure I stick out like a sore thumb after a while in my main room(s) I’ll say this: I have moved around a few times in the last decade, so my “main room” has changed a few times. If I had stayed in the same room this whole time, I definitely think a lot of the player pool would be “over it” haha, especially some of the smaller rooms I’ve been in. I am “medium” social and friendly. I’m definitely not the life of a game, but I talk a bit, crack jokes, talk **** to the right people, etc.. so think people I play with generally like me, which goes a long way in people being tolerant of losing their money over time. Having said that, in the room I’ve made home the last several years, I’m quite confident there isn’t a single 2/5 player that elicits more table changes than I do lol. I don’t mind it when it’s regs because that seat usually just gets filled with a worse player, but it does sting when a whale decides to stop playing with me. All I’ll say about Baltimore is I’ve played there (Md Live and Shoe) and it’s a good region! It was even better before DC opened

Long time listener. First time caller. Great thread. Thank you! Two questions:

1. What do you think was your biggest breakthrough learning moment as far as strategy goes?
2. At 2/5 do you think you bluff optimally or more/less than optimal? Thanks and sorry if we weren't supposed to ask strat questions (I didn't see any in the thread).

by BetAgainst m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58822609#post58822609)

Long time listener. First time caller. Great thread. Thank you! Two questions:

1. What do you think was your biggest breakthrough learning moment as far as strategy goes?
2. At 2/5 do you think you bluff optimally or more/less than optimal? Thanks and sorry if we weren't supposed to ask strat questions (I didn't see any in the thread).

1. I think I’ve probably tried to answer this a couple times in this thread. Hard to pick one. Probably learning what baseline strategy in a two blind cash game actually looks like (super tight), and then extrapolating from that how and why I am allowed (able) to play so much looser than that. The answer is of course because the population plays far too loose and passively. For example, you can easily open 55 or KJo profitably from EP in most 2/5 games, but in a tough game those are pure folds. You’re gonna be wide open for 3 bets and also people won’t be flatting with dominated junk in tough games. I also had big aha moments in tourneys when learning how significantly bubble and ICM dictates how tight and loose you are, depending on what stage of the tourney you’re in, and what relative stack sizes are. I’m mostly a cash player but gaining proficiency in tourneys was really fun.
2. I hope I bluff pretty close to optimally. If I didn’t think so, then I should probably adjust right? There are definitely player types who I will go for it a little more, if I think they reliably fold to a lot of pressure (top pair, even overpairs reliably folding on certain boards) , and then other players against whom I only really go for high efficiency bluffs because they are just such stations (like if I have 7 high when I missed my open ender and I can try to bluff out queen high and king high) People like to say “never bluff a station”. This statement lacks nuance. You should have bluffs against every player, the range just really constricts if you have some dope calling off with 4th pair on a wet board facing multiple bets. Against someone like that, your bluffs should be hands that have absolutely zero showdown value, and hopefully good removal, and then you should have a very robust value range to exploit all their loose calls

1.) How much rake do you think you've paid lifetime (my guess would be in the hundreds of thousands)? 2.) What would you say is the "max winrate" for your typical game, assuming that you exploit your opponents perfectly? 3.) Could you elaborate more on your previous quote about bluffing frequencies? 4.) How quickly do you characterise your opponents to change your play towards them - obviously you have initial thoughts on appearance, demeanour, but how quickly do you adjust to the way that they are playing? Thanks for the thread!

by I5betA5suited m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58824386#post58824386)

1.) How much rake do you think you've paid lifetime (my guess would be in the hundreds of thousands)?2.) What would you say is the "max winrate" for your typical game, assuming that you exploit your opponents perfectly?3.) Could you elaborate more on your previous quote about bluffing frequencies?4.) How quickly do you characterise your opponents to change your play towards th... See full post

1. Oh god that’s a good question. I’ve been a live pro for over 11 years now. I am definitely far from playing 2000 hours a year, probably average more like 1600. How much rake would I pay per hour? I don’t even know, maybe $20? So that math works out to around $360K. And then let’s not even get into tips. That’s in the 6 figures too. Yikes Thankfully there’s still a nice slice of pie for me left over. I’m gonna finish this year around $100K profit, probably only 1200 hours played (big life events). When I started this thread I was at almost a mil lifetime, so now is probably more like $1.1 mil. I’m sure in the next handful of years I’ll be approaching $1 mil profit just from 2/5 which is pretty wild.
2. These questions are so hard to answer. I’ve been averaging right around $100 over the last 2 years which is insane, but if we harken back to years like 2016-2018, I was only making like $50-60. I’m not sure why my hourly has gone up so much. Maybe a little extended rungood. Maybe inflation just making 2/5 more accessible to more people, maybe rooms increasing to a $1K or higher max…probably all of those things I’m not arrogant enough to say I’m the winningest 2/5 player by any stretch of the imagination either (although I suspect I’m in the upper echelon) so it seems very likely to me that someone is making more over an extended period without running super hot. 3 and 4. I could elaborate on bluffing and frequencies in so many different ways, it’s hard to choose. I’ll drop an opinion I have that relates to this: I think the VAST majority of the 2/5 pool, even legit professional players, make adjustments too quickly based on incomplete information. It can take a very long time to really have an accurate gauge of someone’s skillset. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve played with someone and I was thinking “wow this guy is pretty solid!”, sometimes even playing with them for 50 or even 100 hours, and then I finally see one or more big pieces of evidence that they really aren’t that good. The best source of evidence, by far, is at showdown, especially a showdown in a hand where there were critical decisions on each street. Watching a player execute sensible sizings across all streets with a hand that makes sense at showdown, can give you a good inclination that they know what they’re doing. This can even be in a hand where they were bluffing and lost if their hand selection makes sense. The opposite is true too, seeing someone show down poor hand choices can quickly let you know they are a weak player. I do stereotype players, I think it would be silly not to, and I’ll make small adjustments based on limited info, but I only make big “heroic” adjustments based on very strong evidence. I’ll try to make some simplistic examples. Let’s say I’m facing a jam preflop, and with zero info I think I should call off 99+, AQs and AKo. Well, if my opponent is an 80 year old guy who I’ve played with for 45 minutes who I suspect is tight, I’m fine letting go of the AQs, the 99, and maybe the TT, but I’m not gonna do anything absurd like folding QQ or KK, which is the sort of over adjustment that I’ve seen all the time from mediocre players. On the contrary, if the all in is from some other stereotype, a young guy riding a short stack, someone who seems like they’re drinking or tilted, someone who seems like they’re a gambler, someone with lots of bling, etc.. I might dilate to hands like 88 or 77, AQo, AJs, etc. The stronger the stereotype or read of their disposition that they may be punting, the wider I go, but there are limits. There’s a lot of intuition and estimation to it. That doesn’t mean I’m afraid of making extreme adjustments, I just understand that stereotypes only go so far. To exemplify this, in 2023 I folded KK preflop either 3 or 4 times (can’t remember which) and I got shown AA each time. Each situation was unique, but I was pretty confident in all of my folds because of who my opponents were. I distinctly remember doing it twice in the span of a few weeks. When the second situation occurred, I was like damn again?? But folding KK preflop is an absurd adjustment that almost always takes hundreds of hours with a player. You have to know that they are a scared tightass who won’t have QQ or AK in whatever line they took. These scenarios do occur, but they can be quite rare. I could go on and on, but I’ll stop for now.

And when I say that pros make bad assumptions too quickly, fish are even more wildly off with theirs Playing live poker, it’ll happen daily or weekly that people will make comments about how I, or someone else is playing, that will tell me that they have no idea what they’re talking about, or they’re extrapolating way too much based on a sample of 30 or 60 hands. I am neither tight nor loose, but it’s very easy over a sample of 2 hours for me to either be super card dead and not involved in any meaningful pots, or for me to be VPIPing like every other hand and play a ton of big pots. And it’s amusing the wild assumptions and comments people make in response to these samples. And it’s even nicer that they share them out loud, making it that much easier to know how you are being perceived ��

Not sure if there are any rules against self promotion here, but I am considering offering coaching for the first time in a long time. I would charge $125/hour for video coaching. We can have an initial consultation going over your skill level and your needs. I’m really looking for people who already play a significant amount of live poker, and who want to improve their winrate, or perhaps make the move from 1/2 or 1/3 up to 2/5. I want my coaching to be worthwhile for you, and the people who will benefit the most are people already putting in the work. If you’re a beginner, there are much cheaper ways to learn the basics. Given that I’ve been making almost $100/hour at 2/5 for the last 2 years, I think I can be of tremendous value to anybody who is struggling at live poker, as long as they are eager to learn. DM me if interested!

Hi, I would welcome your insight pls. I'm struggling with aggressive betting by people that are not as skilled as their betting amounts would indicate. I'm not talking about Shove Monkeys. It's my having a set on the river with the felt showing a straight potential. Only to end up discovering the winner won with 2 pair-as an example. I'm good at reading the felt and betting patterns, but when I run into this, I'm missing some pots. These aren't bluffs either. Just weaker play with exuberance I figure. All in all, it's my aggression needing to improve to push past the bs. I.e.: but are my pocket 10s on a 739r flop with heavy betting any good to continue? Fearing I'm up against a set. If I bet into them they'll sometimes reraise on a weak draw and my 10s don't seem good. Is there anything beyond accepting it as poker that can be done? I welcome all input from all sources too, including any experiences. Thx B.

I don't think this question has been asked yet - how old are you? I'm in my early 50's and recently Phil Helmuth commented on age as a factor in the WSOP Main Event. I see that almost all the tough pros in my local room at 2/3/5 (9 tables going at 2pm on weekdays) are younger than me. Do you see many players crushing your regular game who are over 50?

Wow, that sux, what you're implying. I'm 60s. But if you're going to say that testosterone level and aggression are necessary to counter aggression...I don't find value in that. Bc age and experience of "tempered" play, meaning less emotional, I see as far more valuable in poker. Maybe I didn't explain my question well. I'm curious if players more experienced than I, have gone through a phase and/or have a practice of seeing beyond this youthful exuberance in betting to increase one's win rate. I've tried bet size/pocket cards patterning, counter betting, but I'm resigned to just skipping the hand and moving on to the next one. Bc I haven't pinned down a method yet. This, after when I am able to see "their" hole cards. Iow, I see it as a leak I'd like to get better at. What I did fail to mention is that this is online. Undoubtedly, a factor, but from what you've said before, you are a more experienced player than I. So I took a chance in writing for an opportunity to grow my game. A game that is, more or less, a (mostly profitable) part-time job/intellectual hobby. I love the complexities, subtleties, and "artful" nature in being successful at poker. Something I've always enjoyed since being a kid. Thank you for any advice you see fit. B.

This is a question for the OP - Live Pro... I'm interested in his age. by OGfromOCC m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58899507#post58899507)

I don't think this question has been asked yet - how old are you? I'm in my early 50's and recently Phil Helmuth commented on age as a factor in the WSOP Main Event. I see that almost all the tough pros in my local room at 2/3/5 (9 tables going at 2pm on weekdays) are younger than me. Do you see many players crushing your regular game who are over 50?

by BEEK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58899258#post58899258)

Hi,I would welcome your insight pls.I'm struggling with aggressive betting by people that are not as skilled as their betting amounts would indicate. I'm not talking about Shove Monkeys. It's my having a set on the river with the felt showing a straight potential. Only to end up discovering the winner won with 2 pair-as an example.I'm good at reading the felt and betting patter... See full post

So how I would phrase this is “I struggle with people who are very aggressive with all of their value holdings, and they often put way too many chips in the pot relative to how strong their hand is” I mean the solution is pretty simple, if you know a certain player will overplay their hand, then you need to make sure you have an adequately widened call range to account for that. In a situation like you described, you might just have to hold down the call button with a set because you know they can be spazzing off with 2 pair One of the more memorable hands I played in the last couple years, we were heads up to a flop of $200 at 2/5? Flop came 874r and my opponent jammed $3500 eff into $200 after 3 betting preflop. It was one of the most absurd Jams I’ve encountered in my career. I had bottom set, and I think it’s kind of a sick spot because we’re super dead vs 88, 77, and in really bad shape vs 65, but ultimately I decided there was a fair chance this was q clueless spazz with an overpair, I called, and beat AA. Gotta just hold the call button and sometimes get shown the bad news. Don’t fold hands that are really high up in your range unless you have an extremely strong understanding of the villain. by OGfromOCC m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58899507#post58899507)

I don't think this question has been asked yet - how old are you? I'm in my early 50's and recently Phil Helmuth commented on age as a factor in the WSOP Main Event. I see that almost all the tough pros in my local room at 2/3/5 (9 tables going at 2pm on weekdays) are younger than me. Do you see many players crushing your regular game who are over 50?

I’m 34. It’s exceedingly rare for me to see somebody over 50 who I would consider really beating the game for a lot. I think guys in that age typically got into the game long before we had such advanced strategy, and they are unwilling or unable to learn how to play really well. There are obvious exceptions like Erik Seidel. What’s interesting to me is how most of the best players seem to be fairly close to my age now. I feel like there really aren’t that many super good young guys anymore, especially in America. Nowadays, when I see a kid under 25 at my table, I’m usually happy to see them. They skew way more towards being slightly degen, into sports betting and crypto, and just not great at poker. When I was early 20’s, boy it was not like that at all.

Is there anywhere online you see as a good place to get a good poker strategy for live low stakes high rake poker that I can memorize and execute

by Shaugie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58912560#post58912560)

Is there anywhere online you see as a good place to get a good poker strategy for live low stakes high rake poker that I can memorize and execute

Memorization is only a small part of being a good poker player. Yes you should have a good understanding of baseline ranges, good sizings to use, etc, but understanding the WHY behind every decision point is how to succeed. Good luck

Why have you guys become more miserable? Why do you take so long in hands that are irrelevant? I lose about 3 hands a hour compared to 10 years ago which costs me about $5hr. I know you tip like **** bc it’s your job and I even defend you guys when it comes to that. The issue is costing me 2-3k a year. Do you care? Have you been robbed?

by IHateMisregs m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58945889#post58945889)

Why have you guys become more miserable? Why do you take so long in hands that are irrelevant? I lose about 3 hands a hour compared to 10 years ago which costs me about $5hr. I know you tip like **** bc it’s your job and I even defend you guys when it comes to that. The issue is costing me 2-3k a year. Do you care? Have you been robbed?

I can’t speak for other players but I try not to waste time. A good chunk of decisions I make are immediate, especially preflop. The only spots where time is taken is if I either genuinely need to think, or if I have to think about my range. Let me explain the second part. An easy example would be if there is already a raise and a 3 bet and I look down at a hand that I’m always going to 4 bet, like KK or AA. I will take a little time to think about what the bottom of my range is, because it’s important for me to know in the hand, and also to avoid having any obvious timing tells. If I just snap 4b, it greatly reduces the chances of it being a hand like 99 or A5s, at least in general. Or like if I know im jamming a river in a big pot, I also have to think about what other hands I’m gonna be jamming. Otherwise I really don’t “waste” any time, and even in the aforementioned spots it’s not a significant tank. I probably make more money per hand than you so I assure you I want to see hands! I also don’t think I’m miserable, but I can speak on this: there is a healthy contingent of very mediocre live pros in this county who aren’t really that good or balanced. They historically made a living by guys just punting into their super nutted ranges, and as the game has evolved, they aren’t making nearly as much money by being nut peddling nits, and they’re hurting financially. That is the typical makeup of the misreg

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58237522#post58237522)

I’ve studied a lot of different ways over the years. I was winning pretty easily at the lowest stakes and also at 2/5 just with my natural talent, but I also worked to improve steadily. Early on it was a lot of free or cheap content like Crush Live Poker and other smaller websites with free videos. Later on Doug Polk videos on YouTube, then some Upswing modules, GTO wiz, and ot... See full post

Hello there. I am not sure if you are still monitoring this thread, but if you are, I am wondering which training materials, both free and paid, would still be good in today’s 2/5 environment. I am asking this question since you obviously have studied a lot of content, both good and bad. Are there any free training courses that you have found to be effective and up to date? Or would YouTube videos from Doug Polk, Guerrilla Poker, Jonathan Little, BlackRain79, provide the best mindset? How about paid courses? There are quite a few expensive courses out there, but there is always the danger of the content being mostly from ten years ago or so. Also, what is your opinion on poker coaching? At what point do you believe that hiring a poker coach would have the greatest impact on your game? TLDR: How would you start if you had a clean slate of knowledge, but knew with training materials were good for today’s game? Thank you for reading.

by TheLoneWarrior m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58967450#post58967450)

Hello there. I am not sure if you are still monitoring this thread, but if you are, I am wondering which training materials, both free and paid, would still be good in today’s 2/5 environment. I am asking this question since you obviously have studied a lot of content, both good and bad.Are there any free training courses that you have found to be effective and up to date? Or w... See full post

I think the answers to a lot of your questions depend on what your experience level is. Also, for 2/5, the level of play can vary quite substantially from city to city. I haven’t been traveling as much recently because of big life events, but I know that 2/5 in Vegas is just orders of magnitude more skillful than in other random parts of the country. So treating 2/5 in America as some kind of uniform level is not really accurate imo. If you’re a newish player, or maybe you beat 1/2 for a small amount, I think watching tons of Doug Polk videos on YouTube would be very useful. You could also subscribe to upswing, I haven’t used it in years but I’m sure the content is quite good. I can’t really endorse Crush Live Poker, I liked Bart a decade ago but imo he teaches people how to be “good nits” and I think upswing would be better You can definitely get a coach! The hardest thing is just finding one who is not a charlatan and can actually help you exploit live poker. I’d be hesitant to hire someone who has only played purely online.

by TheLoneWarrior m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58967450#post58967450)

Hello there. I am not sure if you are still monitoring this thread, but if you are, I am wondering which training materials, both free and paid, would still be good in today’s 2/5 environment. I am asking this question since you obviously have studied a lot of content, both good and bad.Are there any free training courses that you have found to be effective and up to date? Or w... See full post

I think the answers to a lot of your questions depend on what your experience level is. Also, for 2/5, the level of play can vary quite substantially from city to city. I haven’t been traveling as much recently because of big life events, but I know that 2/5 in Vegas is just orders of magnitude more skillful than in other random parts of the country. So treating 2/5 in America as some kind of uniform level is not really accurate imo. If you’re a newish player, or maybe you beat 1/2 for a small amount, I think watching tons of Doug Polk videos on YouTube would be very useful. You could also subscribe to upswing, I haven’t used it in years but I’m sure the content is quite good. I can’t really endorse Crush Live Poker, I liked Bart a decade ago but imo he teaches people how to be “good nits” and I think upswing would be better You can definitely get a coach! The hardest thing is just finding one who is not a charlatan and can actually help you exploit live poker. I’d also be hesitant to hire someone who has only played purely online, as they usually aren’t as well-versed in the major exploits that are necessary for live poker in most cities

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58236687#post58236687)

One of the benefits of 2/5 is the absurd consistency of it. I'd have to double check but I'm fairly sure I've had at most like 2 or 3 losing months of 2/5 when I put in more than say 130 hours. Most of my losing 2/5 months were when I was playing a lot of tourneys and therefore I had low volume.Worst downswing at 2/5 maybe like $10K or so? Most painful stretch was probably some... See full post

I’m currently in a $7300 downswing at 2/5 so now I don’t feel so bad. Great thread, just found it, will study it.

by BullyEyelash m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58968895#post58968895)

I’m currently in a $7300 downswing at 2/5 so now I don’t feel so bad. Great thread, just found it, will study it.

$7300 is not terrible, especially if you are playing in deeper action games. I can pull that off in 2 sessions if I run badly enough 😀 Good luck turning it around!

Hi everybody! It’s been a long time since I’ve posted a long form update to my thread, and after looking at the first page or 2, I realize a lot has changed in my life Since making this thread over 1.5 years ago, I’ve -Gotten married -my wife had a baby -we bought a house together Big life changes indeed! All of which have shaped my career in some ways For those wondering, the house buying process was absurdly smooth for a poker player. I had been preparing for this for years, expecting the worst, so I had my finances in order as much as I could. I worked hard to keep my income very steady (and increasing) from 2021 to 2024, I had good documentation, and we closed on our house in just a few weeks. Having a wife with a normie job definitely helped, but if any pros are reading this, I assure you it IS doable buying a house. And we got a pretty darn nice one too! As for poker, I’ll share my 2/5 graph and chart since I made this thread. Volume is way down, especially since having a baby. Even when we were newlyweds, I took off a lot of time for honeymoon and just to enjoy life. After my wife gave birth, I barely worked for 3 months, and after that, a lot of months were under 100 hours Despite the lack of volume, you’ll see I’m doing quite well. In addition to the image, I’ve made about $10K in promo money, as well as small profits in tourneys. Probably approaching $1.2 mil lifetime from poker Things change once you get married though, I think much more in terms of “household income” and I would say as long as we make over $150K household a year, we’re doing fine. My wife works 40 a week with great benefits. Corporate benefits are absolutely sick, I would really hate to have to pay $2K a month to insure the 3 of us, and that is only 1 of many bennies she gets. In the future, I expect most weeks that I’ll play between 20-40 hours, probably 30 on average, and I don’t see any reason why my hourly should dip. Players are just as sucky as they’ve ever been! Thanks to everybody who has read my little thread, it’s fun to share insight into my almost 12 year poker career, even in anonymity

()

()

I just read the 5 pages of this post. Congratulations on your career. My questions are: Is Vegas a good city to be a 2-5 pro? There is 24/7 action, many rooms in the same place. Or is it better to go to Florida (Tampa, Miami) or elsewhere? My second question is about taxes, on 100k profit in 2/5 how much do you pay in taxes approximatly ? Is it in your own name like a self-employed person, do you just deduct the winnings from the expenses? (what expenses?). Thanks 😀

by d2893d m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58970049#post58970049)

I just read the 5 pages of this post. Congratulations on your career. My questions are: Is Vegas a good city to be a 2-5 pro? There is 24/7 action, many rooms in the same place. Or is it better to go to Florida (Tampa, Miami) or elsewhere? My second question is about taxes, on 100k profit in 2/5 how much do you pay in taxes approximatly ? Is it in your own name like a self-empl... See full post

I’m really only in Vegas during the WSOP, the sentiment seems to be that Vegas is very tight and reggy, so probably not. I actually like Vegas a lot but I doubt I’d ever live there full time. I have to imagine Florida, Maryland/DC, Texas, Colorado, Cali, and a number of smaller markets are all much more profitable for 2/5 than Vegas Taxes are pretty simple, I’ve had them done by a professional and I’ve also done them myself. Schedule C like a sole proprietorship, on the schedule c all of my business related expenses come off like travel and vehicle mileage. The roughest tax is probably the 15% self employed tax, but at least that’ll pay off when I’m old collection social security and Medicare. On $100K I’m usually paying low to mid 20’s in taxes, the standard deduction and QBI deduction really help. Again it’s a little different now that I’m filing jointly with my wife but I typically make quarterly payments in the $5-6K range

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58969098#post58969098)

$7300 is not terrible, especially if you are playing in deeper action games. I can pull that off in 2 sessions if I run badly enough 😀 Good luck turning it around!

Make that a $12700 downswing. Spoiler Show

New manager raised my hourly while lowering my tipout % without talking to me first thinking it would net the same, but it results in a $5400 annual pay cut that’s going to be difficult to fix. I work door at a bar. She was trying to shift tipout costs from the servers to the owner, didn’t know what I was making and did the math wrong anyway. Very surprising as she had worked there before previously as a server & bartender and is very smart. She sincerely apologized but it’s a good thing I quit drinking thirteen months ago.

You mentioned 2-5NL games in Las Vegas are tougher. Did you play there? what was your hourly win rate in Las Vegas only? Sample size? What do you think you could win if you played there full-time? Thanks.

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58968040#post58968040)

I can’t really endorse Crush Live Poker, I liked Bart a decade ago but imo he teaches people how to be “good nits” and I think upswing would be better

I dont disagree with you about barts general teaching approach but i would be interested in just one or two examples of how your advice would be unlike the "good nits" stye of coaching.

by RedOak m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59064951#post59064951)

You mentioned 2-5NL games in Las Vegas are tougher. Did you play there what was your hourly win rate in Las Vegas only Sample size What do you think you could win if you played there full-time Thanks.

I’ve never played any significant volume of cash in Vegas. I’m sure the hourly would be modest compared to where I live. Maybe $35-60 at 2/5 and $50-80/hour at 5/10 but that’s truly just a guess. Also I left the range on 2/5 very wide because of uncertainty. by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59065417#post59065417)

I dont disagree with you about barts general teaching approach but i would be interested in just one or two examples of how your advice would be unlike the "good nits" stye of coaching.

Sure! I’ll preface this by saying I haven’t consumed CLP content in probably close to a decade. I also want to be clear that I don’t think his content is “bad”. I loved listening to him when I started, I think he’s a very good poker player, but I remember his content being dumbed down. I don’t recall any strategy covering how to not get owned by very good players. Understanding where you are within your range in spots, and having the proper frequencies with different parts of your range. Playing live low stakes cash is an exercise in basically playing a deformed strategy based on the population consistently doing predictably bad things. But it’s still important to understand what strategy at a baseline looks like. It obviously doesn’t happen that often, but I would say at least a few times a month I get into spots where I’m able to really own a mediocre reg because they do not know how to shift into a strategy that is not so population exploitative, and it’s because they’re mediocre and they don’t know what that even looks like. I think any good content out there would help players have very solid fundamentals first, and then understand WHY you deviate so much at live low stakes.

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59073111#post59073111)

I don’t recall any strategy covering how to not get owned by very good players. Understanding where you are within your range in spots, and having the proper frequencies with different parts of your range.Playing live low stakes cash is an exercise in basically playing a deformed strategy based on the population consistently doing predictably bad things. But it’s still importan... See full post

how many "very good" players are in a $5 big blind player pool? In los angeles it prob 3 players out of about 15 tables running constantly across the city. seems like the best advice would be avoid the tiny number of very good players as they are sucking up too much money out of any game that are sitting in to make it worth while to choose that table over all of the other tables available. or couldn't you just sit to their left and basically solve everything? (i know this is lazy and not very "balla" advice lol) Obv if you move to $10 big blind level this changes dramatically as there are very good players at every table.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59073705#post59073705)

how many "very good" players are in a $5 big blind player pool? In los angeles it prob 3 players out of about 15 tables running constantly across the city. seems like the best advice would be avoid the tiny number of very good players as they are sucking up too much money out of any game that are sitting in to make it worth while to choose that table over all of the other tabl... See full post

I think LA is quite different than the east coast. 5/10 is a lot more abundant in LA than most places. A lot of rooms don’t have games bigger than 2/5 regularly, and very good players can be more common than you might think. I’m guessing Commerce 5/10 is only slightly tougher than some east coast 2/5 games on average. With cost of living differences, I think it makes sense why this is the case. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still somewhat rare to have a bunch of snipers at 2/5, but being completely unequipped to handle a formidable opponent can be costly. It’s also good to have solid fundamentals for when you have an unknown player, who either might be good, or you don’t know what their tendencies are yet. But I do get your POV. I suppose I’m mainly arguing for more comprehensive coaching if you want to having any chance to be elite. If you’re struggling to win at all, or maybe you’re a rec hobbyist who just wants to plug big leaks, CLP can easily be the way to go for you. I certainly didn’t mean to throw excessive shade at Bart, I just think there is better training available now

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59074084#post59074084)

I certainly didn’t mean to throw excessive shade at Bart, I just think there is better training available now

pretty sure even bart would agree there's better training. for most people theres a pretty big gap between what they can be told and what they can actually implement. bart tells people things they can actually do which is why his "training" has found a solid following imo. Youve recognized that people (even winning players) play at a certain level and sort of stop there or get comfortable there and you can exploit that by playing one level above them in their weakest spots. Teaching someone to do this is sort of impossible, it would be like teaching someone who can physically only throw 80mph to throw 100mph. Youre better off teaching the 80mph guy to throw knuckle balls, there are ways to accept your limitations and still outwork your opponents in non "balla" ways.

What do you think has contributed to your win rate going from $56/hr up to $84/hr? How often do you look back on a hand for a big pot and think you made a signifant mistake? I'm a regular player and stuck at $50/hr at my 5/5 game, but still identify frequent mistakes that I make in big pots. Mostly overcalling when I should fold - paying people off on the river, or yesterday calling a 4 bet preflop show without enough equity. It's frustrating. by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58969213#post58969213)

Hi everybody! It’s been a long time since I’ve posted a long form update to my thread, and after looking at the first page or 2, I realize a lot has changed in my lifeSince making this thread over 1.5 years ago, I’ve-Gotten married-my wife had a baby-we bought a house togetherBig life changes indeed! All of which have shaped my career in some waysFor those wondering, the house ... See full post

by OGfromOCC m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59074501#post59074501)

What do you think has contributed to your win rate going from $56/hr up to $84/hr?How often do you look back on a hand for a big pot and think you made a signifant mistake?I'm a regular player and stuck at $50/hr at my 5/5 game, but still identify frequent mistakes that I make in big pots. Mostly overcalling when I should fold - paying people off on the river, or yesterday call... See full post

I think it was several factors. Possibly the biggest was most of the east coast 2/5 games increasing to a $1K cap. Most of the time when my hourly was in the $50-60 range, the buy in was smaller I think some of the increase is me getting better at poker, naturally. I also think that games becoming a little bit tamer over the years has actually been to my benefit. This is kind of a contrarian take, but when a game is “super duper good” with people cold calling 3 bets all the time, every pot is like several hundred dollars multi way, the difference between myself and a “competent nit” is gonna be fairly small. Sure I’ll size better and do a bunch of little things better, but in games like this, it’s mostly about just making hands or flopping big equity and getting money in, which lots of people can do reasonably well. When games are tamer but the whole table still kinda sucks (a mix of player types) that actually maximally benefits a player of my caliber because I exploit players for being both too tight and too loose in different scenarios. I also can simply play and win a lot more hands. Lastly…inflation? 2/5 isn’t as big of a game as it was 10 years ago, easier for middle income fish to come donate, I think that plays a small factor. As for your other questions, I certainly will make mistakes, but it’s pretty rare for me to look back on spots and think that I really torched. Like it’s rare for me to call off otr in spot I’m never good, or for me to radically misread a situation. I could easily see preflop mistakes capping your hourly, and also maybe lacking mental clarity when you enter large pots. This is something I’ve gotten way better about. When you’re in a big 3 bet or 4 bet pot, try to work on staying calm, assess if your thought process is as coherent as it is in smaller pots, and try to focus on fundamentals and not worrying about the result of the big pot 😀

How do you still remain excited about poker after so many years?

Haven’t bumped this thread in a while. Solid year. Including high hands and other promotions, I will likely end up in the low $100K range with about 1300 hours played.

() I also had a brief foray into playing online back in February, I grinded a bunch on coin poker, was top 3 in their daily cash leaderboard a bunch of times, and I made maybe $5K online as well, although I decided to hang that up because the games were extremely tough and regged up. So a very low 6 digit year while working way less because I have a lot more family responsibilities these days…I chalk that up as a pretty solid year! Investments have done well (minus the recent crypto tank), I’ve made improvements in health, everything trending up for me. For 2016, I do hope to be a little closer to 1500-1800 hours. We have good child care now and I can ramp up my play, definitely want to make well over $100K next year. by CraigFeldspar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59170294#post59170294)

How do you still remain excited about poker after so many years?

It’s really not hard at all for me. I enjoy playing the game, I enjoy busting people up, I love the freedom and flexibility poker offers me. My situation is way better than most, and I am full of gratitude. Also, as I’ve mentioned a lot, my wife works full time (corporate benefits FTW), I have a well-balanced life where I spend a lot of time with family and friends, and only playing like ~30 hours a week just doesn’t burn me out on poker at all 😀

What was your CoinPoker Username? I played quite a bit in February as well and was on the leaderboard, but I was playing mostly 100NL & 50NL with a small bit of 200NL. Not sure if we may have crossed paths. That would be cool.

by TheGodson m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59175863#post59175863)

What was your CoinPoker Username? I played quite a bit in February as well and was on the leaderboard, but I was playing mostly 100NL & 50NL with a small bit of 200NL. Not sure if we may have crossed paths. That would be cool.

I sent you a DM, JonathanBiggle

Hey, how much do you think "one big beautiful bill" will affect your after-tax profit? Do you think that on, say, 120k net profit you'll pay significantly more taxes than before? (In the sense that you play 100% cash and 0% tournaments).

by d2893d m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59177295#post59177295)

Hey, how much do you think "one big beautiful bill" will affect your after-tax profit? Do you think that on, say, 120k net profit you'll pay significantly more taxes than before? (In the sense that you play 100% cash and 0% tournaments).

Honestly don’t know man. It’s very troubling. I gotta see how this next year plays out. Thankfully we’re not hurting for money at all. Poker pros have good reason to be concerned though, especially tourney players

Just wanted to hop in and say congrats on crushing so hard. This thread gives me motivation. Keep updating it once in a while!

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58238789#post58238789)

1)I take off a Friday or Saturday (or both) almost every week to do something with her, and honestly I don't even care. I actually believe a lot of times the weeknight games are better. I know everybody thinks "You have to play Friday night!" but do you know what happens when every decent/good player thinks that? Every one of those players is in the poker room on Friday! I zig ... See full post

You can easily see if this is true by filtering your tracking app by day and hourly. As a former live pro with a lot of volume as well I highly doubt your hourly on a Tuesday is as high as a Friday.

by KeepGLOBALfair m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59211676#post59211676)

You can easily see if this is true by filtering your tracking app by day and hourly. As a former live pro with a lot of volume as well I highly doubt your hourly on a Tuesday is as high as a Friday.

Hey, one of the big pros of his poker career is that he has somewhat flexible hours and can spend time with his family. I am sure that's worth some EV. Also when I used to play 2 5 quite heavily in certain Philly games, I noticed a similar trend. A lot of action players would play in Philly during the week and go to their shore/beach house and/or spend time with their families on the weekends, so at times weeknight games were in fact juicier.

by KeepGLOBALfair m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59211676#post59211676)

You can easily see if this is true by filtering your tracking app by day and hourly. As a former live pro with a lot of volume as well I highly doubt your hourly on a Tuesday is as high as a Friday.

I do think Friday is probably the long term best day, but as you can see over the last 5 years of 2/5 (I filtered starting at 1/1/2020), it is only my third best day, and Saturday is my stone worst day (although I play way less on Saturday than any other day of the week) There ya go!

()

much smaller sample but i've found this to be true as well at least where i play - the real spots are the guys making 400k+ a year and they are usually at their cabins with the family or golfing on the weekend

How has the scenario of online poker changed for you over those 10 years?

Inspirational thread, thank you. Can you pleade share information on the typical rake structure you are playing in? Are you able to estimate the impact on your hourly with a rake structure of 5% 20$cap (everything else stays constant). Thank you, best regards

Inspirational thread, thank you. Can you please share information on the typical rake structure you are playing in? Are you able to estimate the impact on your hourly with a rake structure of 5% 20$cap (everything else stays constant). Thank you, best regards

Curious if you have noticed the players in your games to be less friendly unpleasant to be around in recent years. Might be rose tinted glasses but pre Covid especially early 2010s I thought playing live was a lot more characters and lively ppl than today. I think a lot of it has to do with recreationals getting sick of losing after all these years. I know you said your normally friendly and pool generally likes you but do you find the state of the pool these days still enjoyable to be around or does it feel more like a grind and wears on you more year over year? Would love if you went into motivations, mental game and just more of the little things that take being a successful live pro going for this long because I know it’s not just poker ability alone. Seen many poker prodigy’s get burned out and move onto something else.

by Tilted and Broke m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59218277#post59218277)

How has the scenario of online poker changed for you over those 10 years?

Pretty much don’t play online anymore. Did play a few weeks last year and made $5K, but man was it a hard grind! Way easier to make $5K live lol by easygoingT m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59218334#post59218334)

Inspirational thread, thank you. Can you please share information on the typical rake structure you are playing in? Are you able to estimate the impact on your hourly with a rake structure of 5% 20$cap (everything else stays constant). Thank you, best regards

Most games on the east coast are something like 10% up to $6+2, $6+1, or maybe 5+2 if you’re lucky. 5% up to $20 is super rough, game would have to be deep and very soft for me to want to play in it. Of course, stakes matter a ton. At low stakes that’s a crippling rake, but a juicy 10/20 game, not so bad. by KeepGLOBALfair m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59218346#post59218346)

Curious if you have noticed the players in your games to be less friendly unpleasant to be around in recent years. Might be rose tinted glasses but pre Covid especially early 2010s I thought playing live was a lot more characters and lively ppl than today. I think a lot of it has to do with recreationals getting sick of losing after all these years. I know you said your normall... See full post

I do think games are less friendly and less lively, yes. Honestly, this is something that has gotten worse even since the creation of this thread. I think particularly in the last couple years game quality has diminished significantly. Traffic is also down I still make a good living, and I plan to continue for a while, but I’m in my mid 30’s, and for the first time, I am actually exploring options on what my career could be after poker I think I have time, and I have plenty of cushion financially to pretty much do whatever, but where I live it’s gotten to the point where sometimes games break really early during the week, or are just super regged up. Now, the regs aren’t amazing, but it’s still far from ideal in terms of what I estimate my hourly to be And with inflation, having a family now and stuff, making say $100K in a year with no chance to grow is not nearly as exciting as it was 12 years ago

Have you ever been audited by the IRS? Given a lot of non w-2 income flows in and out of your bank account? Or you already file as a professional poker player s-corp? Most people in the USA who put in more poker volume then w2 volume during the year probably end up making around what you do in this thread, 50-100k* ^ In addition to their investments from their portfolio I also figure most of this population demographic are people who are in their 40s/50s/60s

Also do you have anything in crypto?

by Eudaimonia m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59224089#post59224089)

Have you ever been audited by the IRS? Given a lot of non w-2 income flows in and out of your bank account?Or you already file as a professional poker player s-corp?Most people in the USA who put in more poker volume then w2 volume during the year probably end up making around what you do in this thread, 50-100k*^In addition to their investments from their portfolioI also figur... See full post

No I’ve never been audited. I’ve had small discrepancies or errors a couple times where they sent me a letter saying I owed some small 3 digit sum, and I just paid it I keep pretty good records tbh and I have a lot of incentive to keep my taxes on the up and up, I have assets that I have to account for, and I’ve bought a house very easily. We actually closed on our house in under 3 weeks, incredibly painless, and my preparation and record keeping was a big part of that I just file a schedule c as a professional gamer, no s corp or other structure by Eudaimonia m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59224092#post59224092)

Also do you have anything in crypto?

Yeah I like keeping between 5-10% of my NW in crypto. Mostly btc, little bits of ETH and other stuff. I’ve done really well with this approach. My first btc buy was $3400 and my first ETH buy was like $100 or so

I sent you a PM.

The solo 401k is huge because you can borrow against it even for real estate, which i didnt know. Respond to my PM, cant believe you file schedule C, why not switch to S-corp? It is way worth it IMO, did your CPA not run the numbers by you i mean its like counting cards should be able to tell you in a second. Poker players are high liability though. Crypto got too big, now you got high fees on every exchange and also the 1099-DA which means the IRS will be able to come after you a lot more if you under report stuff

by Eudaimonia m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59224456#post59224456)

I sent you a PM.***The solo 401k is huge because you can borrow against it even for real estate, which i didnt know.Respond to my PM, cant believe you file schedule C, why not switch to S-corp? It is way worth it IMO, did your CPA not run the numbers by you i mean its like counting cards should be able to tell you in a second. Poker players are high liability though.Crypto got ... See full post

I was advised that an s corp could be risky, it’s purely a pass through and it doesn’t actually have a function, and setting one up would increase my chances of audit substantially. I’d have to look more at the benefits of the solo 401K. I’m not aware of the employer deduction you mentioned in the DM, when I contributed, I only reduced my tax liability, I didn’t take a deduction. I’ll admit I’ve been doing my own taxes for the last ~8 years (I did have a cpa a long time ago) so it’s possible I’ve punted some money

Whoever advised you was dumb. Do they know what an S-corp is? I think they are just trying to cover their ass. Were they a CPA? If they are a CPA do they have a tax attorney? A pass-through entity is a good thing... Why would you want to pay double tax? The only downside with an Scorp is running payroll so just call ADP and ask them to set it up for you or pay a CPA. You stack a solo 401k with an scorp, thats the combo to maximize EV. In regards to audit that will probably increase like i said, but if you have a lot of moving parts such as club gg transactions with venmo/paypal or you play at Bill Perkins private home game with VCs, IBs, and Hedgefund guys then it shouldn't matter. Do you have a lifestyle that supports poker as in you have other streams of revenue hitting your bank? That makes it less probable that they will scrutinize you, but for someone only making a 100k a year playing 2/5 5/10 or 200nl online even so and nothing else just solely playing poker, it doesn't matter unless you are in the highstakes poker community in the USA.

You do you. Its your money, you do whatever you want with it, and im not even sitting at your table lol. Poker players are sketchy though like i said

If you have other streams of income like rental properties or another business, then making 50-100k playing poker on the side is nothing the IRS wouldn't care too much. But if you do have other streams of income you need to factor those in and structure everything properly so you can maximize your EV against their range right? because you only get dealt the nuts to cooler people ever so often. You can't just bet pot pot pot But if you are a millionare i wouldn't sweat it. Youre just there to play and not get worried about the details of a couple hundred dollars here or there

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58969098#post58969098)

by BullyEyelash m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58968895#post58968895)

I’m currently in a $7300 downswing at 2/5 so now I don’t feel so bad. Great thread, just found it, will study it.

$7300 is not terrible, especially if you are playing in deeper action games. I can pull that off in 2 sessions if I run badly enough 😀 Good luck turning it around!

It was $7800 down in about 50 hours. I took a five month break and did a lot of studying and attitude/mental-physical health work, and I’m up $7800 in about 60 hours since returning. Believe it or not, your note above helped, thanks.

i hope you are still here. so im assuming you have a home base and play wish the same people day in day out. i want to think that its basically a reg war or something to the like. i want to know whats your take on having to battle the same people everyday? the casinos around where i stay would usually only have 1 table running, lucky there might be 2. so its always the same people playing. Do you visit other casinos for a change of opponents?

by tiltmonster12 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59277522#post59277522)

i hope you are still here.so im assuming you have a home base and play wish the same people day in day out. i want to think that its basically a reg war or something to the like. i want to know whats your take on having to battle the same people everyday? the casinos around where i stay would usually only have 1 table running, lucky there might be 2. so its always the same peop... See full post

I have a few different rooms I can play in that are pretty close, and I do exercise my option to change things up pretty often The biggest room definitely has a lot of regs, but imo only a few of them are notably solid players. It’s 2026, there’s gonna be regs everywhere. Being a good pro means being able to make a bit of money off the mediocre regs, and print money off the fish. Just the way it is.

How does my WSOP winnings get linked to my profile? I only have two and the latest one was three years ago. I am using the WSOP app for the first time. Do I have to register for a tournament, cash in another tournament, etc.? Thanks

by JohnnyNoChop m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59316385#post59316385)

How does my WSOP winnings get linked to my profile? I only have two and the latest one was three years ago. I am using the WSOP app for the first time. Do I have to register for a tournament, cash in another tournament, etc.? Thanks

Why are you asking this in AMAs on completely other subjects? AMA means ask me anything related to my subject, not ask me any random question on the planet. Try the poker software forum and the thread for whatever app you are talking about. If you are talking about getting them linked to your profile in this forum, we don't do that. If it comes up, usually folks just use the Hendon Mob database.

by Garick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59316557#post59316557)

Why are you asking this in AMAs on completely other subjects? AMA means ask me anything related to my subject, not ask me any random question on the planet.Try the poker software forum and the thread for whatever app you are talking about. If you are talking about getting them linked to your profile in this forum, we don't do that. If it comes up, usually folks just use the H... See full post

It's a poker related question for a "pro" poker player. Maybe try not being a douche bag when you're asking the world to ask you questions.

by JohnnyNoChop m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59316892#post59316892)

It's a poker related question for a "pro" poker player. Maybe try not being a douche bag when you're asking the world to ask you questions.

That wasn’t me replying to you my friend, it was a moderator named Garick 😃 Regardless, I don’t know the answer your your question. Like my name and thread imply, I am a crusty live pro 😂

how did you play 10 years of live poker and not go insane?

by BigBananas m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59325884#post59325884)

how did you play 10 years of live poker and not go insane?

I’m approaching 13 full years. Why would I go insane? I make good money, I work whenever I want, the swings at this point are minuscule compared to my total net worth, and I get to play a game for a living. Poker has given me everything. I now own a house, I’m a husband and father, and we’re financially crushing it. I do think I could pivot out of poker eventually, just to do “something else”, but I’m in my 30’s, for now I’m loving it

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59326943#post59326943)

I’m approaching 13 full years. Why would I go insane? I make good money, I work whenever I want, the swings at this point are minuscule compared to my total net worth, and I get to play a game for a living. Poker has given me everything. I now own a house, I’m a husband and father, and we’re financially crushing it.I do think I could pivot out of poker eventually, just to do “s... See full post

I sorta wonder too, because there’s some social downsides to live poker like being around certain people all the time. I guess the money makes that worth it for you? Or you never experienced that aspect of the game? I used to struggle a lot with the toxic personalities of the environment but I handle it much better now than I used to. I could see someone quitting over the antisocial behavior you see all the time though and switching to online poker. Only the money has kept me going all these years.

by DumbosTrunk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59328467#post59328467)

I sorta wonder too, because there’s some social downsides to live poker like being around certain people all the time. I guess the money makes that worth it for you? Or you never experienced that aspect of the game? I used to struggle a lot with the toxic personalities of the environment but I handle it much better now than I used to. I could see someone quitting over the antis... See full post

Not to hijack the thread but for me live poker has always been way easier for a multitude of reasons; concentration (because it's super slow, one table and I'm there to win), socializing is fun (I like to talk sports and a variety of other topics), how soft it is, etc. I'm sure Live Pro has some similar reasons.

curious OP- do you think you would play in a game 2/5/10 autostraddle that has 10% up to $20 in rake? What winrate do you think you can realistically get in that.

What major adjustments would you make to a 2/5/10 game with a $500 cap? In games where most of the hands go 3-4 way. You must have done well with living a frugal lifestyle, not spending, and investments to hold onto your money. Kudos to you. You seem happy. Good thread.

Do you play PLO? What are you views about PLO?

Did u ever fight ppl at the casino like dumbotrunk does

by DumbosTrunk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59328467#post59328467)

I sorta wonder too, because there’s some social downsides to live poker like being around certain people all the time. I guess the money makes that worth it for you? Or you never experienced that aspect of the game? I used to struggle a lot with the toxic personalities of the environment but I handle it much better now than I used to. I could see someone quitting over the antis... See full post

Look, there are downsides to almost every job. I do find a pretty big percentage of the people I play with to be fairly unlikable, especially when things like politics come up, but I just try to enjoy the process of taking their money. And it's not like the player pool is universally sucky people. I've met some of my best friends at the poker table. So I hear where you're coming from, but it doesn't bother me. I come home every night to a beautiful family. by acescracked84 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59329020#post59329020)

Not to hijack the thread but for me live poker has always been way easier for a multitude of reasons; concentration (because it's super slow, one table and I'm there to win), socializing is fun (I like to talk sports and a variety of other topics), how soft it is, etc. I'm sure Live Pro has some similar reasons.

Yeah, I'm not a huge sports guy but I agree about greatly preferring live poker and its soft nature. by daxile m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59329820#post59329820)

curious OP- do you think you would play in a game 2/5/10 autostraddle that has 10% up to $20 in rake? What winrate do you think you can realistically get in that.

No. Could be beatable if insanely soft, but this sounds like a home game, which I don't play in by Basketballcoach22 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59330961#post59330961)

What major adjustments would you make to a 2/5/10 game with a $500 cap? In games where most of the hands go 3-4 way. You must have done well with living a frugal lifestyle, not spending, and investments to hold onto your money. Kudos to you. You seem happy. Good thread.

Just play tighter and more aggro. You can't flat very much at all, especially not with suited connectors and small pairs trying to smash. The fact that hands go 3-4 ways means that if the open size is 3-4x, you can literally just squeeze jam 50bb profitably in a lot of situations. Stacks should get deeper in a game like this after a few hours, and become a more normal 5/10 style of game. by Basketballcoach22 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59330965#post59330965)

Most of the live pros I've noticed don't really care about people being dicks and that aspect of live poker. Online players or players that started playing online and then transitioned to live, generally are worse off. More sensitive etc. To me though, the dream isn't living in a casino and grinding away. The dream was being able to travel, live in foreign countries etc. As we ... See full post

Poker has given me all of the above. I travel abroad pretty much yearly (though I've never lived abroad) and I am able to afford a life that costs a fair bit without stress! I'm at a point now where a lot of years where the market does well, my passive gains can equal or exceed how much I make from poker. On any given day, the market is more likely to dictate an increase or decrease in my net worth than the poker table is. It's a good situation to be in. by Basketballcoach22 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59330967#post59330967)

OP, what's your thoughts about private games? Do you have any aspirations to play higher?

Zero interest in private games. If I'm being invited to one, I would have to seriously question why, and often times I would assume it's so I can be cheated. I mainly play 2/5, I sprinkle in 5/10. I'm honestly pretty happy with this. I think at different stages of life I want to play more medium stakes live MTT's, but I'm just too busy for that right now. I'm fine with the current dynamic by Guibz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59332809#post59332809)

Do you play PLO? What are you views about PLO?

I play a little PLO but I don't think I'm very good. Live low stakes PLO is kinda stupid. You can make some money but you get way less hands than NL, and so many people just play incredibly face up. On the other hand, once you move up, PLO becomes such a complicated and beautiful game. I generally don't play it because I don't trust my abilities.

Great thread. 13 years in - how granular is your record keeping? Do you log every session with hours/game/location, or just keep a running total? And do you ever actually use the data for decisions (moving up, dropping a room), or is it mostly for taxes at this point?

by drvegasbond m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59348786#post59348786)

Great thread. 13 years in - how granular is your record keeping? Do you log every session with hours/game/location, or just keep a running total? And do you ever actually use the data for decisions (moving up, dropping a room), or is it mostly for taxes at this point?

I log every single session with Poker Income Pro. It’s easy, and second nature. It’s mostly for taxes and to just generally know how I’m doing on the year, I wouldn’t say it ever informs a decision. For example, I could have crazy good or bad results in a given room over 500 hours, but at this point in my career, I can guess pretty accurately how much that has to do to game quality, running hot/bad, etc. I don’t need to look at the numbers. I’m actually having a pretty subpar year, only up about $40K plus a few thousand in promos, but I’ve also only played 650 hours. Just been busy with a lot of other things. Still , I wouldn’t mind being above $100K on the year, I hope in the second half I can play ~800 hours, which should give me a good shot. I feel pretty confident in myself averaging over $70/hour at 2/5

I never thought I would become a victim of a cryptocurrency scam until it happened to me. After losing my hard-earned savings, I felt hopeless and didn't know where to turn. That's when I contacted Digital Light Solution. Their team was professional, knowledgeable, and supportive from the very beginning. They explained the investigation process clearly and treated my case with care and respect. I truly appreciate their guidance and would recommend their cryptocurrency investigation services to anyone facing a similar situation... Email : digital-light-solution, @, quality, service.com, (W h at 's A p p +1 954-856-8045

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59348812#post59348812)

by drvegasbond m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59348786#post59348786)

Great thread. 13 years in - how granular is your record keeping? Do you log every session with hours/game/location, or just keep a running total? And do you ever actually use the data for decisions (moving up, dropping a room), or is it mostly for taxes at this point?

I log every single session with Poker Income Pro. It’s easy, and second nature. It’s mostly for taxes and to jus... See full post

Thanks for the detailed answer. Interesting that after 13 years the numbers confirm more than they inform — the sample in your head is bigger than the one in the app at that point. Did the logging habit come from day one, or was there a stretch early on where you didn't track and regretted it?

by drvegasbond m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59350317#post59350317)

Thanks for the detailed answer. Interesting that after 13 years the numbers confirm more than they inform - the sample in your head is bigger than the one in the app at that point. Did the logging habit come from day one, or was there a stretch early on where you didn't track and regretted it

Oh I’ve logged every single cash session I’ve ever played. It just seemed silly not to, I keep good records and I pay my taxes so that I don’t have to have fear when I invest my money. I didn’t log tourneys initially, I just kept all my receipts, but for the last several years I’ve gotten better about that I haven’t talked a lot about investing but that’s a huge part of my success too. I just do boring indexing, I don’t believe in playing the market, but between my assets, and what my now wife has brought to the table, we’ve made many hundreds of thousands of dollars passively. I also got into bitcoin under $5K. This is a big part of what allows us to have such a low stress life, and how I can get away with often only playing 100-130 hours a month.

A couple quick questions as I read through all the posts:

1. Do you enjoy cash games more than tournaments or do you feel you are better at cash games? I do much better at tournaments and it seems like some people do better at one or the other. I was curious what your take is on this.
2. Do you adjust for certain promotions? Just as an example if a casino was doing a quads or better promo for a higher payout, would you play longer, different, ect? Splash pots? Thank you!

by Ericseed m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59351939#post59351939)

A couple quick questions as I read through all the posts:1. Do you enjoy cash games more than tournaments or do you feel you are better at cash games? I do much better at tournaments and it seems like some people do better at one or the other. I was curious what your take is on this.2. Do you adjust for certain promotions? Just as an example if a casino was doing a quads or bet... See full post

I’m better at cash, it’s not even close. I think I’m decent at tourneys, I think I am profitable in virtually anything $1500 and under (and can be profitable in softer $3500 mains and stuff) but my ability to crush live cash is without question after all these years. Tourneys are way more exciting and emotionally volatile. When I was having big scores, it was the best. But I’ve also never doubted myself more than when I was on super downswings Cash serves my lifestyle much better right now, especially since I have some fun projects I’m working on outside of poker, and my time is scarce. Still though, I want to have some stretches in the next few years where I can sink some time into high value MTTs For your second question, yeah for sure, especially when I was younger and didn’t have a family. Not so much high hands because generally the more money they’re giving away, the more tables are running, so your EV typically doesn’t deviate that much. But I’ve had other promos in local casinos that I’ve taken advantage of big time!

() I mentioned how I was having a little bit of a down year, and then I just rip off 3 big ones in a row and I’m right on track This is actually probably one of the sickest little 2/5 runs of my whole career. $24K in 72 hours. I cropped the left side so people wouldn’t see my home casino, obv Thanks for the support as always. I hope this inspires you live regs to keep getting after it!

What motivated you to track your results and sessions early on? Were your intentions to be professional from the start? Did you have a career as a recreational where you were logging sessions?

by nk02391 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59353806#post59353806)

What motivated you to track your results and sessions early on? Were your intentions to be professional from the start? Did you have a career as a recreational where you were logging sessions?

There was no motivation, I just always did it. I wanted to know how I was doing at poker! “What gets measured, gets improved” I wouldn’t say my intention was to be a pro poker player IMMEDIATELY, but it became clear very quickly that I could make a lot more at it than my regular job, so it became my focus very quickly (within a few weeks I’d say) . I was making over $30 at the lowest stakes, and this was 13+ years ago when things were a lot cheaper. So yeah technically I had a few months where I wasn’t a full time pro because I had a regular job, but that was quite short-lived I probably quit my job earlier than I would today, in terms of how much cash I had, but I was young, my expenses were low, and I knew I could go back if I had to. Thankfully I ran well and never had to look back! I’ve been asked about tracking a lot…do many of you not just track all of your results?

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59353990#post59353990)

... I’ve been asked about tracking a lot…do many of you not just track all of your results?

Not a poker-related response, but I've been using the Lay The Draw method of betting on soccer on Betfair for the last eight years, and I keep an ongoing simple Notepad record of my results, with notes about particular games and competitions. Looking at it now, I see I often don't keep a note of my online balance when I have a run of individual bet losses; but the notes certainly help a lot. Because of my notes from the last World Cup, I have managed to make a good run of wins this time. So I'd agree that tracking with notes is a vital necessity for those who want to take their gambling as a serious enterprise.

What a UNIT of graph - 70,000+ hours of profitable live poker where variance down swongs could last for weeks if not a month or more!! To anyone who thinks variance can not be beaten - just look at this post and remember LONG TERM ev. CAN be taken down! Congrats on killing it live brother!

How do you decide how long any one session should last. How often do you cash out for the night such that your result is close to your max moment during session?

by SadBoy42 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59360988#post59360988)

What a UNIT of graph - 70,000+ hours of profitable live poker where variance down swongs could last for weeks if not a month or more!! To anyone who thinks variance can not be beaten - just look at this post and remember LONG TERM ev. CAN be taken down! Congrats on killing it live brother!

Thank you my friend. I’ve been a full time pro for about 13 years now. I’m guessing I’ve averaged about 1400 hours of cash a year (18,000 total) and maybe 300 hours of tourneys a year (4000 total, this one is a bit more of a guess), and total poker profit, promos and all, maybe like $1.3-1.4 mil at this point. The overwhelming majority from 2/5, couple hundred thousand from tourneys, and modest sums from games smaller or larger than 2/5, or online/app games I dabbled in. Just to give a concise recap of my career. by Gadflier2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59361002#post59361002)

How do you decide how long any one session should last. How often do you cash out for the night such that your result is close to your max moment during session?

Eh, I keep it pretty simple to be honest. I like when most of my sessions fall between 7 and 9 hours like a pretty normal workday. Occasionally I’ll dip out a little early if games are really bad, or I’m super tired, and I’ll definitely extend to 10-13 hours if I’m in an exceptional game, but it’s definitely a bell curve with most sessions falling in that 7-9 range I give no consideration to leaving when I’m at the top. I would say it happens pretty often, just on account of being a big winner, but I genuinely don’t care if I leave upstuck sometimes, it’s all part of the game and my emotions just aren’t affected by 4 digit, or even small 5 digit swings anymore. I can make or lose that much in my investments on any given day!

How is your back from sitting on casino seating for so many years?

by Reveen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59368057#post59368057)

How is your back from sitting on casino seating for so many years?

Honestly no back issues to speak of. I lift a lot and in pretty active, hopefully my level of health persists for a long time 😅

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59368575#post59368575)

Honestly no back issues to speak of. I lift a lot and in pretty active, hopefully my level of health persists for a long time 😅

What do you do in the gym?

Has consistent grinding changed your view on Asians?

by SSC-Ry m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59369145#post59369145)

What do you do in the gym?

Pretty typical strength training split, typically 4x a week. Also enjoy sauna and sometimes cardio by ninefingershuffle m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59369151#post59369151)

Has consistent grinding changed your view on Asians?

No, wtf does that even mean?

How good are your average 2/5 fellow regs? Do they cold call A7o from button vs utg open or call a 3-bet OOP with KTo?

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59369829#post59369829)

Pretty typical strength training split, typically 4x a week. Also enjoy sauna and sometimes cardio

Good for you. I'm a Strength Coach and I've played poker on the side for the last 10 years. It's amazing how few poker players lift.

by lukadonkki m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59369959#post59369959)

How good are your average 2/5 fellow regs? Do they cold call A7o from button vs utg open or call a 3-bet OOP with KTo?

Lmao no, anybody who does this is almost surely a losing player Quality of regs depend so much on the room. Some places I play have many very good players, other rooms are unbelievably softer, where I pretty much respect none of the pros. by SSC-Ry m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59370194#post59370194)

Good for you. I'm a Strength Coach and I've played poker on the side for the last 10 years. It's amazing how few poker players lift.

Yeah I’m not a hardcore gym rat but I’m stronger than probablly 95% of men or so? (Which as you know isn’t that high of a bar)

sick one of my favorite threads. I haven't seen anyone ask: what are some of the worst hands you've played/biggest in-game mistakes over the last few years that you remember in detail? Especially curious about ones where you won the pot anyway or the hand didn't even get to showdown. I never seem to catch those effectively which means Im probably missing most of my own mistakes. The ones where you get stacked stick in your side but the hidden mistakes can easily fall through the cracks Can you give any detail on those hands with the kinds of f-ups that might be easy for most people to miss? How'd you actually catch them?

That kind of profit makes perfect sense; the person has an excellent approach to everything, and the results reflect that. Awesome.

by jl121 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59371351#post59371351)

sick one of my favorite threads.I haven't seen anyone ask: what are some of the worst hands you've played/biggest in-game mistakes over the last few years that you remember in detail?Especially curious about ones where you won the pot anyway or the hand didn't even get to showdown. I never seem to catch those effectively which means Im probably missing most of my own mistakes. ... See full post

It’s really quite rare for me to think of a hand where I truly hate my decisions. I’ve just been doing this so long, I’m very methodical. I really can’t think of any bad ones off the top of my head, based on the info I had at the time. Now, I might learn more about an opponent and realize I kinda torched against them specifically, but there was no way for me to know at the time. Examples of this could be: Stacking off with a standard “bottom of range” type hand preflop where a particular player is just always gonna have QQ or KK+ (it takes a long time to learn this with high confidence) -Running a big bluff that should be effective and efficient (good blockers, clear things we’re trying to get to fold) and then villain just calls with a nonsensical combo. When this happens, I just shift to a strategy of highly selective 1 or 2 street bluffs and mostly focus on taking this player to value town. But again, that doesn’t mean those decisions were mistakes, it just means we gathered new information, and reinforced it with hours and hours of data. A lot of regs are far too quick to make sweeping changes based on a single hand, or an insignificant subset of data (villain showing up with value 3 times in a row when betting river doesn’t mean they don’t bluff…stuff like that) When your opponents show things down that they shouldn’t have, that’s where you can really start to make HEALTHY assumptions about them and adjust. Things like: -They opened something absurdly loose like KTo UTG, I’m gonna 3 bet them a lot more, especially if they’re 5xing like a lot of bad regs do -Not bluffing rivers with stuff like 8 high, especially when they’re unblocking flush draws and stuff. I’m gonna be a lot less likely to pay this person off -Villains who donk into you a lot. Even better if they start to show down stuff like top pair. Just completely guts their checking range, and I’ll start stabbing with range or close to range when they check -guys who flat mandatory 3 bets or squeezes pre. Stuff like JJ-KK and AK get flatted in some pretty absurd spots in live poker. Can allow you to make some pretty huge adjustments I know I didn’t quite answer the question you asked, but that’s because it basically doesn’t exist for me anymore

by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59373187#post59373187)

-They opened something absurdly loose like KTo UTG, I’m gonna 3 bet them a lot more, especially if they’re 5xing like a lot of bad regs do

I take this to mean that you open a 2x to 3x sizing preflop?

by TheGodson m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59373336#post59373336)

I take this to mean that you open a 2x to 3x sizing preflop?

Nah I do 4x, I consider this a normal baseline at 2/5 when the pool just calls absurdly too wide. If I were truly in a tough lineup I would 3x, but that almost never happens. When I play 5/10 I’ll do a lot of $35 or $30 since the game is a lot more aggro in general If I were ever at a table where I was considering 2x, I should probably just leave haha My comment was more “I’ll see bad regs not only open hands that are -EV, but they’ll do it for a too big size like 5x, which just makes 3 betting widely so, so profitable” It’s probably more okay for them to do it at a table full of all fish, but 5x with too many hands, with me or any good regs in the game, on your left, is such an egregious mistake

Hey man. Love your thread, not sure if you still check it or not. But was curious what you think about rake/promotion amount? I have gotten back into playing 2/5 at the hard rock Hollywood now and then. Was shocked coming back to see rake is now $6 cap and $3 jackpot. (Up from $5 and $2). Any ideas how badly that would hurt a Winrate? It’s gotta shave off ~$5-10 an hour right?

by IllSkill m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59376970#post59376970)

Hey man. Love your thread, not sure if you still check it or not. But was curious what you think about rake/promotion amount? I have gotten back into playing 2/5 at the hard rock Hollywood now and then. Was shocked coming back to see rake is now $6 cap and $3 jackpot. (Up from $5 and $2). Any ideas how badly that would hurt a Winrate? It’s gotta shave off ~$5-10 an hour right?

Sorry just saw that you both are still posting in here and commented that most places are $6 + $2 now.

by IllSkill m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59376970#post59376970)

Hey man. Love your thread, not sure if you still check it or not. But was curious what you think about rake/promotion amount? I have gotten back into playing 2/5 at the hard rock Hollywood now and then. Was shocked coming back to see rake is now $6 cap and $3 jackpot. (Up from $5 and $2). Any ideas how badly that would hurt a Winrate? It’s gotta shave off ~$5-10 an hour r... See full post

Skill, If the average is 25 hands per hour. I would divide 25 by 8 which is 3.125 hands per player. Times that by $2 and you have $6.25 an hour more than with 5 & 2, a pretty substantial amount playing 1-2,1-3, or 2-5. Of course, this is not exact as the looser players tend to win more hands, but for general purposes fits the bill. I play PLO and the rake is even more onerous. Like everything in South Florida, the Sunshine is expensive, although I love it here. Racetrack

by IllSkill m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59376970#post59376970)

Hey man. Love your thread, not sure if you still check it or not. But was curious what you think about rake/promotion amount? I have gotten back into playing 2/5 at the hard rock Hollywood now and then. Was shocked coming back to see rake is now $6 cap and $3 jackpot. (Up from $5 and $2). Any ideas how badly that would hurt a Winrate? It’s gotta shave off ~$5-10 an hour right?

Yeah rake creeping up is definitely a problem. In my career I’ve seen 2/5 go from 5+1 all the way to 6+2. I haven’t played anywhere that’s 6+3 yet, thankfully I have never fully calculated it. I’m sure the person who commented above is pretty close A much bigger difference is actually whether a room does no flop, no drop. If they don’t, ripping $5 or $6 everytime you 3 bet and take it down, or ripping $2 every time you steal the blinds, is brutal I’m just thankful that I make enough to not have it affect me too much. My 2/5 hourly in the last 5 years is around $75-80, and that’s actually a mix of a room with good rake and a room with really brutal rake. The latter is a much softer room, so it’s basically a wash

I was reading through the early part of this thread I made, and this post really stuck out because I was answering hard questions about big picture stuff. Fast forward 3 years later, and my perspective ended up becoming quite correct. In the last 3 years, I have consistently made between $80-120K a year (mind you I also only work like 1200-1600 hours a year) and I’m VERY proud to say my wife and I recently crossed $1 million net worth. Almost all of it is in stuff that will continue to gain value: equities that will probably average close to 10% a year, a primary home that will gain value, crypto, and even the cash earns 3.6% which offsets inflation. Once you start accumulating wealth, at least for me, that desire to take big shots kinda melts away. Don’t get me wrong, I still like firing tourneys a little, and I’ll hop in a bigger game if it’s super soft But for the most part, I know that all I have to do is stay the course If my wife and I make our expected income, we’re gonna cover all of our expenses (including vacations and fun money) and have a solid $3-5K a month to invest in assets. Keep doing that, and in 20-30 years we’ll have $4-8 million and be completely set. I can do this all from the comfort of 2/5 which is amazing. Just wanted to share some insight in the personal finance side of things. Once you get this machine going, it’s quite powerful. Most years we make a big 5 digit number just from passive growth 😀 by Live Pro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58238789#post58238789)

1. I was single for most of my career but I am in a LTR now. It can definitely be tricky at times. She works a pretty normal 9-5, so one of the things I'll do is spend a few hours with her right when she gets off work, and then I'll put in a session starting anywhere from 8 to 11pm (or hell, even later), play late, and spend much of the time that she's at work sleeping. This mo... See full post

Thanks for being here! Appreciate you very much. And read through pretty much all of it so far. Hope the second question is not too detailed here. There's only one game/table in town that is no rake, match the stack 1/2 but routinely plays like 2/5. So I'm always attempting to adjust and exploit when I can. But it's hard to stay consistent. Anyways hearing your responses is helpful to reinforce things I may already know or need the discipline to commit too. Anyways, thank you and here we go (also my first post here, cheers!):

1. For cash games how do you define an exceptional game and how do you define a bad game
2. How do you adjust your range, play style, and preflop rfi/3b sizes or flatting range to the following tables types: Loose passive table, ABC Table (play is straightforward/mechanical), LAG table. Thanks!

by GratefulDad1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59377738#post59377738)

Thanks for being here! Appreciate you very much. And read through pretty much all of it so far. Hope the second question is not too detailed here. There's only one game/table in town that is no rake, match the stack 1/2 but routinely plays like 2/5. So I'm always attempting to adjust and exploit when I can. But it's hard to stay consistent. Anyways hearing your responses... See full post

1. I think my evaluation of game quality is a little different than most regs. Most regs care way too much about action only Sure, a deep game with big pots is fun to be in, but that’s not necessarily the most profitable Simply put, when I’m table selecting, I try to gauge how skillful all the players are. Let’s say one game has 5 decent/mediocre regs, a nit, and 2 big fish. All the regs know how to play aggressively and build pots, are reasonably decent at putting you in tough spots, and so on. The whales like to splash and play big pots There’s another table with literally all fish. Not necessarily splashy and aggro, in fact, a lot of them are weak passive The first game is probably more engaging and fun, but the second game is almost surely more profitable, unless you’re really crushing the regs in the first game In the second game, you’re printing EV against every single opponent, whereas on the other table you’re mostly making EV from the whales, and against the regs it’s mostly a wash or maybe you make a little So once you know the pool well, being able to assess overall skill level is key.
2. Loose passive: you should generally be opening more hands and folding a lot to aggression. Hands that normally are -EV are profitable because you aren’t getting 3 bet off your equity enough, but when a normally passive player starts putting money in, they are hugely imbalanced in favor of value and you should respect it a lot. Of course this is a generalization, there are all kinds of player types, including people who will randomly spazz after doing nothing for hours, but this is the general guideline. -A LAG table means you should generally open less and bluff less, but in general I still try to play a balanced strategy unless the game is really wild. The more ridiculous the game is playing, the more you can snug up and wait for premiums, but you don’t want to turn into a nit, these adjustments should be mindful and gradual, and if the game is super loose, there should be spots to stack off with certain things that you normally wouldn’t (a mid pocket pair against a shorty, suited AX against a tilting maniac, stuff like that)

Hey, My question is why are you not playing 5/10 full time Maybe you would do less bb/hour but more $ hour no Like if you are making 70$/hr at 2/5 (14bb) at 5/10 even if you do 90$/hr (9bb) it's a huge difference of $ at the end of the year. Is it because the tables are too reggish, or don't run very often I heard that the 5/10 are softer because the big whales don't like to play 2/5.

by d2893d m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59383432#post59383432)

Hey,My question is why are you not playing 5/10 full time Maybe you would do less bb/hour but more $ hour no Like if you are making 70$/hr at 2/5 (14bb) at 5/10 even if you do 90$/hr (9bb) it's a huge difference of $ at the end of the year. Is it because the tables are too reggish, or don't run very often I heard that the 5/10 are softer because the big whales don't like to ... See full post

The last part is definitely not usually true, 5/10 is typically a lot tougher than 2/5 in most of the rooms I’ve played I will play when it’s good, but a good percentage of the time it runs, the game is just quite unappealing where I live, and it’s honestly dubious if I’m even making more dollars playing it. If I could just “know” I was making an extra $15/hour, sure, but a lot of times it’s really hard to say, and honestly I’m just not in the mood to play a game with 3-6x the swings, that requires a ton more focus, for possibly the same or less money. Sometimes I do! I mean I have my fair share of 5/10 hours, but that is the answer to your question

Thats the dream man, congrats