I've dealt poker for over twenty years: AMA

I loved music but had no musical talent so I spent a few decades doing various jobs in the music biz. (Sure, ask me abou

Are you aware of any collusion stories between dealers and players?

by josh9308 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58962129#post58962129)

Are you aware of any collusion stories between dealers and players?

I have never seen that or heard of it happening in any room I worked at. However most of the rooms I worked at do not have huge games which may dissuade such agreements. That said, a guy who got fired for stealing $5 redbirds led to us all having to run down red chips every time we tapped in so maybe that wouldn't have been a deterrent! But still, I haven't heard of such a thing in the rooms I have worked.

You're planning to be a traveling poker dealer at the age of 64-66? What makes you want to transition then specifically?

by WPNdonk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963724#post58963724)

You're planning to be a traveling poker dealer at the age of 64-66 What makes you want to transition then specifically

My house will be close to paid off so I will be able to get a lot of equity from it. I will also be able to, if needed, access my IRA, 401(k), and Social Security. So I should have a decent amount of cash on hand. Not to retire with, but to invest in a good RV that would become my home. I am hopeful that I won't have to access a lot of what we have in retirement accounts when I sell everything I own including the house. Especially I hope I don't have to tap into Social Security until I can get the most out of it. But it will be good to have reserves if necessary.

What's the best way that us players can help you speed up the game? And do you ever get annoyed at people who are clearly oblivious to making things easier for the dealer?

by BigWhale m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965344#post58965344)

What's the best way that us players can help you speed up the game?

For me, just stay out of my way and let me do my thing. I don't get upset when people try and help like some other dealers, but my preference is to just keep your hands away from the table so you don't help me flip a card (I hate it when I do that, even if someone else helped it happen) and let me churn out the hands for you. I am a very chatty, friendly dealer who likes to joke with regs, but I never want that to get in the way of churning out hands. And I am pretty good at keeping the action going. And do you ever get annoyed at people who are clearly oblivious to making things easier for the dealer?

The only thing that mildly annoys me is moving the button without telling me the button was moved. I wind up moving it again. Even though this usually gets caught by someone, it still slows things down to figure out. If I space out at PLO with a pot size, I welcome someone chiming in. And I welcome people stopping me from making a mistake, or catching it in time to fix it.

Thank you for sharing your story. You must have seen a lot of poker players. How do you categorize them. Are there any player impressed you.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965540#post58965540)

For me, just stay out of my way and let me do my thing.I don't get upset when people try and help like some other dealers, but my preference is to just keep your hands away from the table so you don't help me flip a card (I hate it when I do that, even if someone else helped it happen) and let me churn out the hands for you. I am a very chatty, friendly dealer who likes to joke... See full post

Thanks. I always try to help female dealers (with short arms) by putting out my blinds far out on the table and toss my mucked cards close to them etc. Sadly I see so many players who are completely oblivious to this. In line with what the guy above asked; can you quickly tell when you arrive at a table who is a good player and not? Or do you just don't care enough to think that deeply about the action and/or categorize players like that? (I mean, you obviously care & have to follow the action, but I assume these things become a bit auto-pilot after a while)

by Redbird73 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58967274#post58967274)

Thank you for sharing your story. You must have seen a lot of poker players. How do you categorize them. Are there any player impressed you.

I like the ones that tip really well! 😀 Seriously, good tippers are generally not there as professionals, they're there to have fun. I deal a poker series twice a year and one day I went from a larger buy-in that had WSOP champions in it and a smaller event. I was not shocked because it made sense, but the skill level between the two events was really revelatory to see Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I haven't dealt a cash game higher than $2/5 NLHE or $5/5 PLO in some time (in my break-in casino we sometimes would run uncapped $10/25 NLHE) and I deal to a lot of regs so I can definitely see the players who know how to play and those who do not. The differences are subtle but noticeable when you are looking for it. I don't pay a lot of attention to hands looking to improve my game, but I did learn to as the term says see who the fish was at the table when I was playing. Like a lot of dealers, it is sometimes me. 😀

by BigWhale m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58967314#post58967314)

In line with what the guy above asked; can you quickly tell when you arrive at a table who is a good player and not? Or do you just don't care enough to think that deeply about the action and/or categorize players like that? (I mean, you obviously care & have to follow the action, but I assume these things become a bit auto-pilot after a while)

I can tell almost immediately who knows what they are doing and who does not, but I don't look for player quality as a rule. I want to churn out the hands. I would rather know how a player checks or how easily distracted they get or other things I can use to speed the game up than decide whether they are any good. That said, good players tend to be attentive and they slow things down for tanking and that's fine with me as it is part of the game.

What do you think about dealers that swear they have nothing to do with the cards, they just deal them, bla bla bla...but then they invariably accept tips? Would you rather have players who are lively/chatty but sometimes slow the game, or those who are near silent but efficient and never slowing the game?

have you ever caught a hanger?

Teach us a few PLO pot calculation tricks! I always find you guys genius at how you do this, especially when someone bets weird size and the other says - pot.

Do you, or other dealers find it annoying when I :

• Change an higher denomination chip on the felt for smaller ones while the hand is going
• Call out dealer a mistake (aka ''No, that's actually two pairs queen kicker, this guy over there is the real winner'')
• Ask for waitress while you're dealing cards Yeah, sometimes I find myself engaging in those behaviors and I dont know if dealers feel bad about it but I sure do so yeah... tell me how you feel about those things or how you think other dealers feel about this would be nice so I can improve

That’s a solid career journey, cool how you’ve stayed connected to things you love, even if from different angles. Curious, over your years dealing, have you noticed players' behavior change much with the rise of solvers and online play? Or do live players still fall into the same habits at the table?

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58961635#post58961635)

I loved music but had no musical talent so I spent a few decades doing various jobs in the music biz. (Sure, ask me about that if you want...)I loved poker but could not envision making a living playing the game so when the music biz went to hell, I transitioned to poker.I started dealing casino parties in Ohio when Chris Moneymaker kicked off the poker boom. I continued doing ... See full post

I disagree with what you said about it being too late to start saving for retirement. My area of expertise is economics and finance, and you are well within time to learn something. Of course, the sooner the better, but today is always better than tomorrow.

by WPNdonk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963724#post58963724)

You're planning to be a traveling poker dealer at the age of 64-66 What makes you want to transition then specifically

this sounds far from ideal the main thing i've seen with all the elderly i've dealt with in my life (not calling you that fyi) is that they always assume best case scenario of their health holding up and living forever getting a cancer diagnosis or something of that sort should not be unexpected and i can't possibly imagine going through that while living out of an rv it sounds like you have a good career and work hard taking extra time to deal on your time off (i never knew about your other job just knew you dealt) so i imagine you're earning enough to comfortably put away plenty into retirement - surely this must be more about current spending than anything else i'm sure if you broke down and reviewed all your spending over the last year - you'd find certain things that you could easily go without or could easily switch to a generic brand or cheap er alternative which add to low 5 figures

What are some of the poker tells that you’ve picked up over the years would you say?

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59044811#post59044811)

What do you think about dealers that swear they have nothing to do with the cards, they just deal them, bla bla bla...but then they invariably accept tips?

What do I think of dealers who do their job and expect compensation for it? I feel that anyone who does a job should be properly compensated. Would you rather have players who are lively/chatty but sometimes slow the game, or those who are near silent but efficient and never slowing the game?

I like players who are chatty but do not slow the game down. It can be done. But ultimately, I just like players who are not jerks. Some of them are on the quiet side and that's fine.

by limon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59045082#post59045082)

have you ever caught a hanger?

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by Ermahgerd-quads! m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59046269#post59046269)

Teach us a few PLO pot calculation tricks! I always find you guys genius at how you do this, especially when someone bets weird size and the other says - pot.

Honestly, the 3x + the trailer is gospel and all I really need to get by. Also, I use common core tricks which is funny because I am too old to have been taught math that way but I always found those concepts easier to wrap my head around, even decades ago when I was in elementary school.

by ManastaR m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59049075#post59049075)

Do you, or other dealers find it annoying when I :

• Change an higher denomination chip on the felt for smaller ones while the hand is going

I don't, just don't do it with the pot, please (this has happened).

• Call out dealer a mistake (aka ''No, that's actually two pairs queen kicker, this guy over there is the real winner'')

I welcome people speaking up to correct mistakes. Even when they are not a mistake. Fixing a mistake is a lot easier right as it is happening. As I say when I am dealing, I make plenty of mistakes, ask my wife.

• Ask for waitress while you're dealing cards

I look terrible in a cocktail dress. She'll be around, hand tight. Yeah, sometimes I find myself engaging in those behaviors and I dont know if dealers feel bad about it but I sure do so yeah... tell me how you feel about those things or how you think other dealers feel about this would be nice so I can improve

None of these things tilt me.

by Miles Harrington m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59050047#post59050047)

That’s a solid career journey, cool how you’ve stayed connected to things you love, even if from different angles. Curious, over your years dealing, have you noticed players' behavior change much with the rise of solvers and online play? Or do live players still fall into the same habits at the table?

Thanks! I am very lucky (I also outkicked my coverage with whom I married). I have some skills that I have been able to apply to things I enjoy and I am fortunate that is the case and that opportunities have found me. I dealt a little before Black Friday and mostly after it. Although I am in states that have brought back online poker, that has not permeated the actual games in the casinos. The one I deal in is in a state without it, and the state I live in (and play) blocks online gaming at casinos. So I haven't seen much of a change.

by DoyleandIvey m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59051798#post59051798)

I disagree with what you said about it being too late to start saving for retirement.

It's never too late to start, but it can be too late to start and expect to have enough for retirement without finding other ways to augment your income.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59051943#post59051943)

this sounds far from ideal the main thing i've seen with all the elderly i've dealt with in my life (not calling you that fyi) is that they always assume best case scenario of their health holding up and living forever

I roomed with someone at the last poker series I dealt. Dude is in his mid'70s and is a great poker dealer and he does more stuff that involves activities than people half his age. It is not difficult to deal cards proficiently even at that age. There are a ton of traveling dealers who do this who are considerably older than I am and none of them would be working the events they do if they were doddering geriatric people who couldn't hack it. getting a cancer diagnosis or something of that sort should not be unexpected and i can't possibly imagine going through that while living out of an rv

I imagine there are life situations that will mess up plans even if those plans include living in an actual house. I can have many things mess up my plans, but so do you even without a job that involves lots of travel. it sounds like you have a good career and work hard taking extra time to deal on your time off (i never knew about your other job just knew you dealt) so i imagine you're earning enough to comfortably put away plenty into retirement - surely this must be more about current spending than anything else

I am putting into a work 401(k) and an IRA as much as I can and still have money to live. But I can only do that for another 8-10 years and since I started saving late, that won't be enough to live off of by itself. So either I plan for that or I kill myself when I can no longer afford to eat. I like my idea better. i'm sure if you broke down and reviewed all your spending over the last year - you'd find certain things that you could easily go without or could easily switch to a generic brand or cheap er alternative which add to low 5 figures

Sure I could.

by CrazyAndy27s m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59052808#post59052808)

What are some of the poker tells that you’ve picked up over the years would you say?

I am usually too busy doing my job to pay much attention to these things. I will say that most people who try and talk while an opponent is making a decision they forced upon them usually were better off quietly staring at the felt.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59053135#post59053135)

What do I think of dealers who do their job and expect compensation for it? I feel that anyone who does a job should be properly compensated.

That should be the salary. Obviously, what I'm getting at is they can't have it both ways, if the cards are good, get tipped and if they are bad, it has nothing to do with them. The fact that they accept tips means they aren't being objective and can't say ridiculously "oh, I have nothing to do with the cards!". Ok, simple then, don't accept tips.

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59055103#post59055103)

That should be the salary. Obviously, what I'm getting at is they can't have it both ways, if the cards are good, get tipped and if they are bad, it has nothing to do with them. The fact that they accept tips means they aren't being objective and can't say ridiculously "oh, I have nothing to do with the cards!". Ok, simple then, don't accept tips.

He accepts tips because hes working, end of story Dealing you aces or 3-8o isnt in his job description As far as the floor manager, the casino, and the dealer, and everybody else in the room: you getting dealt 38 offsuit is... Your ****ing problem. If he put your chips in the felt, dealt the card, and pushed the right amount of chips towards the winner of the hand.... he dealt the hand correctly, thats all, and furthermore he has no control over the cards he deals other than the mystic whatever. And thats what you want anyway otherwise you'd complain that the game is rigged The reason people chose to have the winner tip is pretty obvious, and tip is a willful non-obligatory thing... I really have no idea what youre mad about Hes just part of the fantastic four; the waitress, the hotel clerk, the food delivery guy, and the poker dealer For some reason that I dont know, society decided that these jobs were jobs to receive tips. Its entitled for him to expect you to tip him, it is not entitled for him to expect to be tipped in general

Im not sure but I think its in Japan, Japanese workers looks down on the act of tipping them, and they're gonna be like no no no sir please dont do that, keep your money That is to say, its a highly subjective subject, im just going with the flow To be real, there's poker dealers, I gave them huge tips and they shut the **** up, and then later I tipped him 1$ and the same dealer was like oh thank you Manastar, its a pleasure to be your dealer.. What can I possibly say against that, hes pretty cool Most likely he has been tipped so many times, he probably cares more about the way and energy exchange behind your tip him than anything else

nn i'm not trying to get too preachy - but in nearly every instance i've ever seen of "i don't save enough so i'm going to live x,y,z retirement" always ends disastrously because like you are doing, you're looking at best case results - you're looking at the guys who stayed fit and healthy and for whom it worked out because for those that it didn't work out - well you never see nor hear from them despite that there are far more of them classic case of survivorship bias fact is you're making terrible life choices and just hoping everything works out and what's going to happen in 25 years is you'll be putting up a gofundme in order to survive you very clearly make enough money - so spending is the issue here you have plenty of time to put away for retirement

by ManastaR m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59055132#post59055132)

He accepts tips because hes working, end of storyDealing you aces or 3-8o isnt in his job descriptionAs far as the floor manager, the casino, and the dealer, and everybody else in the room: you getting dealt 38 offsuit is... Your ****ing problem.If he put your chips in the felt, dealt the card, and pushed the right amount of chips towards the winner of the hand.... he dealt the... See full post

What you described are basic dealer job functions, there is nothing that suggests what they do is above and beyond their duties. I'm not mad, I just think it's silly because obviously the tipper usually tips because they won the hand, and that's cuz they like what the dealer dealt. I'm just being totally logical cuz there's a flipside ppl just plainly don't wish to acknowledge. Like I said, can't have your cake and eat it too...but actually they can, cuz if you lose a big hand, you can't exactly take some money back from their tip box haha. As for your last paragraph, dealers definitely expect you to tip - and to be tipped in general - and if you don't tip, they act all pissy about it in varying degrees, but you can feel the vibe change for sure.

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59055299#post59055299)

What you described are basic dealer job functions, there is nothing that suggests what they do is above and beyond their duties.I'm not mad, I just think it's silly because obviously the tipper usually tips because they won the hand, and that's cuz they like what the dealer dealt. I'm just being totally logical cuz there's a flipside ppl just plainly don't wish to acknowledge.... See full post

No, listen to me again softly. It is entitled for the dealer to expect -you- to tip. It is self-loving for the dealer to expect to be tipped in a job where tip is the social norm. It is possible for a dealer to expect you to tip, but tht makes him entitled, that makes him indirectly force and -claim- a tip, which is supposed to be a gratuitous offering from the player, the which he is supposed to feel thankful for, which most of them are. I am sure that they are dealers that are entitled, that does not make it okay. As for the tip from the winner debate is kind of a non sequitur. You are already free to tip because you lost a hand, that is something you can do, and he will take it I promise you. Like wtf? sounds like your logic is no logic at all, I suggest that you explore your emotions of jealousy and/or insecurity and/or lack of abundance.

by ManastaR m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59055334#post59055334)

No, listen to me again softly.It is entitled for the dealer to expect -you- to tip. It is self-loving for the dealer to expect to be tipped in a job where tip is the social norm.It is possible for a dealer to expect you to tip, but tht makes him entitled, that makes him indirectly force and -claim- a tip, which is supposed to be a gratuitous offering from the player, the which ... See full post

Maybe you're projecting regarding your last sentence? I'm not jealous at all for dealers, it's a hard job with poor advancement prospects. I'd rather they move on and find better jobs with more fulfillment tbh. Anyway, I'm the one being logical here. No idea about your entitlement angle, ofc they're expecting to be tipped, I never argued otherwise. I'm just arguing the flawed premise behind that. That being said, of course I usually tip, that's the norm unfortunately. I just don't tip sometimes for certain dealers that screw me and then they turn around and give me that bad vibe "why didn't this dude tip me...where is my $X???" as obviously they don't remember or care they screwed me before. Players always remember dealers, but dealers don't remember players as much.

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59055103#post59055103)

That should be the salary. Obviously, what I'm getting at is they can't have it both ways, if the cards are good, get tipped and if they are bad, it has nothing to do with them. The fact that they accept tips means they aren't being objective and can't say ridiculously "oh, I have nothing to do with the cards!". Ok, simple then, don't accept tips.

Casinos do not pay dealers a living wage and the social contract in this country is such that many jobs, including poker dealers, make the bulk of their income from tips. Until that changes, tip the people who are supposed to be tipped, or do not engage in activities where there is an expectation to tip, so don't eat at any restaurants other than fast food, don't go to a bar at all, don't have valet park your car, don't order food delivery, don't get a haircut, don't let a bellhop take your bags for you, don't take taxis or other ride sharing, and don't play poker in a casino. I would rather make a livable wage and not live off tips but no casino seems to agree with this and if I tried to make some noble stand, I would simply be unemployed. Similarly, if you think that you can engage in those activities and not tip because of some idea that you're above the fray and that you can help make a difference to change things to this non-tipped utopia, you are mistaken. You're just a cheapskate who doesn't tip.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59055201#post59055201)

nni'm not trying to get too preachy - but in nearly every instance i've ever seen of "i don't save enough so i'm going to live x,y,z retirement" always ends disastrously because like you are doing, you're looking at best case results - you're looking at the guys who stayed fit and healthy and for whom it worked out because for those that it didn't work out - well you never see ... See full post

Was there a question there?

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59056378#post59056378)

Casinos do not pay dealers a living wage and the social contract in this country is such that many jobs, including poker dealers, make the bulk of their income from tips.Until that changes, tip the people who are supposed to be tipped, or do not engage in activities where there is an expectation to tip, so don't eat at any restaurants other than fast food, don't go to a bar at ... See full post

Naw, I'm no cheapskate at all...where did I say I don't tip at all? I just don't tip bad dealers but like I said I don't get the "logic" behind tipping poker dealers because they say that they have no influence on the cards. The tipping society/mentality needs to end, and it's getting ridiculous, for example, with waiters expecting 30% tips nowadays, even programming them into the machines. I'll continue to only tip dealers who are good to me and don't screw me up. Also, it's ridiculous to expect a tip when players only win like a $3 pot, yet some dealers actually think they deserve that. Same for dealers who screwed me out of a $300 pot and then I win the next one for $40 and they think they should get a gratuity? Nope, that's a chump move but many players don't care and think it's normal. Glad tipping is optional, so I opt to not do so if they don't deserve it.

I know your idea is to deal fast, but do you get excited about a hand when there is lot of action involved or a known name involved?

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59056756#post59056756)

Naw, I'm no cheapskate at all...where did I say I don't tip at all?

I said "if you think..." which is not accusational, nor does "you" have to mean you personally. I just don't tip bad dealers but like I said I don't get the "logic" behind tipping poker dealers because they say that they have no influence on the cards.

This is remarkably dumb.

by MysteriousWays m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59057146#post59057146)

I know your idea is to deal fast, but do you get excited about a hand when there is lot of action involved or a known name involved?

I have no problem with hands that are drawn out and involve tanking. A drawn out hand can give me a moment to relax and can sometimes be welcome but even if not, players in my experience do not tank away entire downs. Sometimes players think I am rushing them and I tell them they can take as long as they need, me going fast doesn't mean they need to. Sometimes I find it exciting to watch good players play and make moves that pay off for them (or make moves that do not!) and I have dealt to some poker celebs - at the tournament series I regularly deal, I once dealt to a WSOP main event champion and WSOP main event runner up (different years) at the same table and that was pretty cool although I had been dealing like 15 hours at that point so I desperately didn't want to make any mistakes! But my main casino is a commuter room with a local clientele so that doesn't come into play for the most part.

When all's said and done--what's your hourly earnings? Suppose a player wanted to tip you a flat rate at the beginning of your down, rather than with each won pot. What amount would you consider to be fair? Would that arrangement offend you?

by EggsMcBluffin m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59140991#post59140991)

When all's said and done--what's your hourly earnings?

I don't keep track of this at this point. The first few years I obsessively calculated this but I lost the spreadsheet when my PC died and didn't care enough to start a new one. Generally including whatever hourly stipend I received, I was in the $35 an hour range which I think is what most dealers make once they get good at it. This included tournament downs but I am not including the tournament series I deal twice a year which is exclusively tournament tokes and a small hourly. I checked the last one I dealt. I dealt 103.09 hours in eleven days. I made $4,491.99 which comes to $43.57 an hour but I got 23 hours of overtime which skewed the total a bit. I do not know how that compares to dealers at other big tournament series' because it's the only one I do. Suppose a player wanted to tip you a flat rate at the beginning of your down, rather than with each won pot. What amount would you consider to be fair? Would that arrangement offend you?

Funny, someone I dealt to once actually did that. I sat down and he tossed me a redbird and said "no more." And that was all he gave me. If every player gave me a redbird for a down and nothing else, I could live with that. If only one player does it that's cool too, but I hope he doesn't get hit with the deck. 😀

How many different poker games are you proficient in? When dealing a tournament series, how often do you change tables, get breaks, and get sent home early while ending tables still playing?

Tell us something interesting. A good story you remember from the table. Craziest or most memorable hands you've dealt? Biggest pot? Congrats on your successful career of service and assets saved and acquired.

by e1cnr m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59148915#post59148915)

How many different poker games are you proficient in?

I can deal Hold 'Em, Omaha (FL or PL), Omaha H/L (FL and PL), Stud, Stud-8, Razz, Pineapple, Crazy Pineapple. I played Triple Draw and can probably deal it with a primer. I never dealt short deck or Badugi or any of the other strange games I see in Alan Kessler's Facebook page but I am a quick study! When dealing a tournament series, how often do you change tables, get breaks, and get sent home early while ending tables still playing?

It depends is viewed as a copout but there is so much variance here depending on staffing and attendance. Also this is only one tournament series I am fortunate enough to have worked since the first one and every one since. When it began there was a lot more variance. As of late on weekdays if you don't sign the EO you can usually get 10-12 hours in. Mostly there are 4-balls but that can vary. Weekends will mean 14-18 hour shifts. Sometimes you will get stuck at the same table when it is a start later in the day and the organizers are waiting for the earlier-starting tournaments to start breaking down. Usually we'll get anywhere from 2-6 breaks in the longer shifts, depending on how things shake out. They try not to force out dealers unless it is absolutely necessary. It happened one day the last time. Usually there's enough of an EO that it isn't needed. As the room starts breaking down, they get rid of people from the EO first and then it's luck of the draw: If you break a table they send you home unless they have earlier starting dealers, in which case you take one of them out. Sometimes you can feel snakebit, but my honest feeling is that all of that evens out. I usually get more than enough hours to make it worth me going there and sometimes when it is slow and we have more downtime (breaks, dead spreads, up-downs where you do one table and then take a break) I just ask to leave. Other dealers are there for their livelihood; I have a nice FT paycheck I get anyway so I can leave and let others make their money. They (my bosses) all know that I am there when they need me even if I am on the EO and wanted to do something.

by ABCforME m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59150187#post59150187)

Tell us something interesting. A good story you remember from the table.

I told this story in the Breakroom thread, I think, but one time the cops came in and tazed a guy in the one seat. He and a relative (brother or cousin) was playing and he was being threatening to everyone - other players, dealers, supervisors, me - and security was brought in and his response was to be threatening to them. So the cops were called. He gets into a hand with a reg from Ireland who has a great brogue when the cops show up. The guy shoves all his chips into the middle and the Irish guy is deliberating and the cops are telling him it's time to go. Not until I finish this hand, he says. The relative split - my guess is he wanted nothing to do with the police. The cops were insistent that he leave now but he is adamant and flips over his hand - Aces with top set on the board. Cops response is to just taze the guy. He hits the floor right at my feet (he was in the one seat) and the table scrambles. I grab the lid from under the table and secure the well and just sit there while the cops drag the guy off. After they're gone and people start going back to the table, I look at the Irish guy and say in my most deadpan voice, "So, do you call?" Guy says in that great accent, "I can't win!" So I muck his hand and push the pot to the empty seat where the floor comes and bags it up. I am aware that the Irish guy could have said something, the floor could have made a ruling, and it would not have been at all controversial to award the pot to the guy who was not tazed and dragged off by the police, but in the shock of what happened none of that occurred. Craziest or most memorable hands you've dealt? Biggest pot?

I dealt a bad beat jackpot once. Quad Aces beat Quad sixes. Loser won $180k, winner won $90k, table share for the six others who were dealt in was $15k each. That was a wonderful day! The biggest hand I dealt was in a $10/25 uncapped game that was in excess of $80,000. Congrats on your successful career of service and assets saved and acquired.

I am lucky I get to watch people play a game and get paid for it.

what did you get tipped on the bbj

Really enjoying this thread. Thanks, OP. How did you learn to deal when you first started? If you were starting from scratch today, how would you go about learning to deal, and is there anything you would do differently in general?

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59156096#post59156096)

what did you get tipped on the bbj

$9k from the loser, $3k from the winner, another $3k from the table shares ranging from $1k to zero. So $15k total. Not a bad day at the office!

by Wilfram m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59156195#post59156195)

Really enjoying this thread. Thanks, OP.

Thank you! How did you learn to deal when you first started? If you were starting from scratch today, how would you go about learning to deal, and is there anything you would do differently in general?

I got into poker when I saw Chris Moneymaker on TV. That got me into playing local home games in Columbus, Ohio. One of the people in the local home games started up a casino party place called Rat Pack Entertainment. Since this was Ohio in the days before casinos everywhere, I was able to break in (and pick up some bad habits) while dealing casino parties. Also as someone who worked in a record store in my 30's and wrote for music magazines and local newspapers, I didn't have a ton of disposable income so I dealt bigger home games for tips. I moved to the Philly area and worked for a record label but met up with a guy who did parties here and I still do them to this day on the side. The opening of table games for Pennsylvania casinos happened to coincide with my record company gig falling apart (like a lot of the music biz at the time) so I wound up opening a local poker room. I had to be certified to get the job so I took classes at the casino that were free. I had a big advantage over most in the class because of my years of casino party experience and some time spent playing in casinos (a lot of applicants never knew a thing about poker) so I was able to get into the casino as a full-time dealer and I quit the record company. If I had to change anything, I would not have spent several hundred bucks on a non-accredited "school" that opened up locally before the casinos opened up. I didn't learn very much and spent money that was useless when the casinos did open up. I also would not have become a dual rate at the casino that hired me. I took a big pay cut, they treated me like **** (I didn't know that in most places you would get x-amount of dealing shifts; I was scheduled three months of floor duties exclusively after the "promotion") and it helped give them phony reasons to let me go. Being let go wound up being the best thing for me though because I never would have wound up at the online casino had I been happy at my job there. And I would have been really screwed had I worked in a casino when COVID hit instead of the online casino where I just started working from home. So maybe it's for the best. But in the short term, it was a terrible move for me.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59061748#post59061748)

This is remarkably dumb.

Naw, it's dumb to acknowledge this fact and dealers have a personal bias on this topic cuz OFC they're going to say that tips are necessary, but as poker players, we cannot escape the logic behind that if they don't have any influence on the cards, then why should they get tipped just for doing their basic job, vs not get blamed when the cards don't come out for players? Can't have it both ways. That's all there needs to be said. Anyway, enough of this topic, have fun denying.

For the $5/$10 games do you know of any regulars for over 5 years? Thanks

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59162654#post59162654)

Naw, it's dumb to acknowledge this fact and dealers have a personal bias on this topic cuz OFC they're going to say that tips are necessary, but as poker players, we cannot escape the logic behind that if they don't have any influence on the cards, then why should they get tipped just for doing their basic job, vs not get blamed when the cards don't come out for players? Can't... See full post

Tips are expected for certain jobs. Poker dealers included. That's just the real world mate gotta open up your mind to that as it's a blind spot to live a fuller more enjoyable life.

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59162654#post59162654)

Naw, it's dumb to acknowledge this fact and dealers have a personal bias on this topic cuz OFC they're going to say that tips are necessary, but as poker players, we cannot escape the logic behind that if they don't have any influence on the cards, then why should they get tipped just for doing their basic job, vs not get blamed when the cards don't come out for players? Can't... See full post

Dealers have a bias because they are making anywhere from $5-7 an hour in most cases and they are fans of food and shelter. Some jobs derive much of the income in the form of tips. Dealing poker in America is one of them. Your opinion is inconsequential and if you don't at least throw the dealer a $1 chip when you drag a pot you're an *******.

by BackUpImagine1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59162880#post59162880)

For the $5/$10 games do you know of any regulars for over 5 years? Thanks

Unfortunately it has been many years since I dealt a game above $2/5 NLHE or PLO so i cannot answer that question. There are not a ton of rooms that consistently have games that high. In my sphere it would be Park and the Borgata and I never worked at either of those rooms.

Thanks for the reply back.

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59162654#post59162654)

Naw, it's dumb to acknowledge this fact and dealers have a personal bias on this topic cuz OFC they're going to say that tips are necessary, but as poker players, we cannot escape the logic behind that if they don't have any influence on the cards, then why should they get tipped just for doing their basic job, vs not get blamed when the cards don't come out for players? Can't... See full post

The remarkably dumb part is that you blame dealers for screwing you out of a pot and that you think the service you tip for is that sometimes the card they deal is the one that will make your hand. You are very obviously not just remarkably dumb but also a very unpleasant individual.

Is it a difficult job? Do you have to have good memory and math skills?

I am not a big MTT player, and it's especially rare for me to be playing MTTs live. I've always theorized there are a bunch of so called "pros" out there who are actually not good at poker and just managed to rack up a bunch of cashes (or just a big one) on HendonMob but are down lifetime. Probably lots of people that get staked because of their HendonMob. The type of player who is really good at social media and putting on a persona but not actually good at poker. Any truth to that idea as far as you know? I figure a dealer for 20 years would probably be able to spot this.

by Lupin III m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59170848#post59170848)

Is it a difficult job? Do you have to have good memory and math skills?

You can be a good poker dealer if you:

Have above-average dexterity with your hands

Are good at basic math/can compute basic math equations in real time

Understand how poker is played and poker players

Can be personable and friendly while still churning out hands and not making mistakes

Of course you can be all of those things and still fail if you lack the skills that are good in any customer-facing environment where you are responsible for tens of thousands of dollars that are not your own. No matter how good you are you have to handle jerks appropriately; no matter how much the players like you, your poker room management also have to think you're a positive for the room. Once I learned the basics (which took me about two months) and learned when to talk and when to dummy up and deal (not always stakes-dependent, believe it or not) I became a very good poker dealer. I wouldn't say it is "easy," per se, but I think that most of the things you need to do in order to excel as a poker dealer are learned traits and not god-given talents. Math comes naturally to me but I think it can be learned. I am naturally an extrovert but you don't need to be engaging to do a good job (some tables it's better to shut up). I imagine that if you're clumsy the physical aspects of the job may be harder to grasp, but it's not digging ditches and I am far from graceful (my pitch is mediocre at best) but I can still churn out the hands. So if you think these are things you are or can be good at, you will find this job easier than those who do not/cannot. But it's not rocket science.

by ten25 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59170885#post59170885)

I am not a big MTT player, and it's especially rare for me to be playing MTTs live. I've always theorized there are a bunch of so called "pros" out there who are actually not good at poker and just managed to rack up a bunch of cashes (or just a big one) on HendonMob but are down lifetime. Probably lots of people that get staked because of their HendonMob. The type of player wh... See full post

I have had the fortune to deal every tournament in a now-twice yearly poker series in a big East Coast poker room. That series has some high roller events and a main event that is not cheap to enter. I also have dealt in micro-stakes daily tournaments. You can definitely see the skill levels change as the buy-ins rise. If someone is consistently cashing in large buy-in events, they are definitely decent players. Maybe they are losing players because Hendon Mob doesn't track the times people put four bullets into an event and don't even min-cash, but they definitely have some skills if they can consistently cash and occasionally make a big score. If you see someone who has one or two big cashes but a lot of empty, my guess is they might have just caught lightning in a bottle. I wouldn't want to back someone based on their Hendon Mob results or social media presence alone or even in tandem, but I also got talked into investing in a race horse by a friend of mine. I lost a few bucks (not a huge amount) but got to watch them race, pet the horse in the stables, and even glom my way into a winners circle picture while at the track one time. That was fun, even if the investment itself was unwise. So maybe it's worth it if you can back a poker player who will let you pet them? 😀

Hello. You might not be able to say, but have there been any instances of dealers setting players up—like intentionally dealing hands against specific players?

by Funpokerrr m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59354290#post59354290)

Hello. You might not be able to say, but have there been any instances of dealers setting players up—like intentionally dealing hands against specific players?

I never saw it or heard about it happening in the rooms I worked in, but I didn't deal in games big enough to make it worth losing your job and license, and I also stayed away from dealing underground games where maybe that might be more likely.

Thanks for your honest answer!

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59162654#post59162654)

Naw, it's dumb to acknowledge this fact and dealers have a personal bias on this topic cuz OFC they're going to say that tips are necessary, but as poker players, we cannot escape the logic behind that if they don't have any influence on the cards, then why should they get tipped just for doing their basic job, vs not get blamed when the cards don't come out for players? Can't... See full post

If dealers do their job well, lots of hands will be dealt with very few errors, plus if a dispute develops they'll be able to explain exactly what happened when the floor comes. This type of dealer earns his tips. But if it's a talking dealer who doesn't pay attention, and there are a bunch of these, he hurts the players and slows down the game (which also hurts the house through less rake being collected). Do you still want to tip someone for doing a poor job?

[QUOTE=NYCNative;59171606]You can be a good poker dealer if you: [LIST] []Have above-average dexterity with your hands []Are good at basic math/can compute basic math equations in real time []Understand how poker is played and poker players [][B]Can be personable and friendly while still churning out hands and not making mistakes[/B][/QUOTE]

(The bolding is mine.) There are a few dealers who can talk and still do their job well. But the problem here is that it encourages other dealers to talk and this talking can cause lots of problems. So, even dealers who can talk and still deal well shouldn't be participating in excess talking.

[QUOTE][/LIST]Of course you can be all of those things and still fail if you lack the skills that are good in any customer-facing environment where you are responsible for tens of thousands of dollars that are not your own. No matter how good you are you have to handle jerks appropriately;[/QUOTE]

The floor/management should handle the jerks. All the dealer should do in these cases is call the floor over and explain what the problem is.

There are a very small select few dealers in my poker room who have a lot of self entitled attitude and occasionally talk back to players or are rude towards them. What’s the best way to handle these folks? They drive me nuts!

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59357425#post59357425)

The floor/management should handle the jerks. All the dealer should do in these cases is call the floor over and explain what the problem is.

Which is how you handle jerks appropriately.

by DumbosTrunk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59357893#post59357893)

There are a very small select few dealers in my poker room who have a lot of self entitled attitude and occasionally talk back to players or are rude towards them. What’s the best way to handle these folks? They drive me nuts!

Pull them aside when they are going to or from break or at a deadspread and have an honest discussion with them. They may not know that they are coming off as rude, or even if they do, telling the dealer you do not appreciate it (this can be done without being super confrontational) can possibly break the ice. I had a player who I was trying to joke with tell me in no uncertain terms he didn't want that kind of treatment. So I stopped. (Note that this player was and is a complete jerk, and came to me in a very aggressive and unnecessarily confrontational manner, but I won't waste a second on him if that's how he feels.) After that, if a dealer continues to be rude, by all means have a discussion with a floor person or poker room management about it (again, not being confrontational about it). Floor people usually do have dealer's backs while in the box but they also will speak with a dealer away from the felt if they hear what seems to be a legitimate complaint. If a dealer insists on being rude to you and they and the supervisors do not care, by all means vote with your dollars: Go to a different room, sit out when that dealer comes in, or just stiff them. I am of course pro-dealer but someone who is rude makes my room look bad and by extension makes me look bad and I don't want to look bad and/or chase away good players.

What is something regular players believe about casinos or poker rooms that is completely wrong?

by livepokerplayer m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59389144#post59389144)

What is something regular players believe about casinos or poker rooms that is completely wrong?

I cannot authoritatively state what a "regular" player may think because the term is hard to quantify and my definition of it may not jibe with what you were thinking. I will say that rec players have a misconception that poker is a big deal to the casino and they wonder why the casinos don't give them all kinds of rewards for having long sessions. I think most of the people in this forum know that poker is not a big money-making enterprise for casinos, but inexperienced rec players do not grasp this and they will think they mean more to the casino as a player than they really do. I know a lot of VIP hosts feel the same way, even the ones who like poker themselves and who work at rooms that highlight it more than others. A lot of players (and not only rec players, some in this very forum) have the idea that anyone can jump into the box and deal competently. I will never say that poker dealing is rocket science or brain surgery, but every player has been dealt to by good, experienced dealers and new dealers learning the ropes or just subpar dealers who do not have inexperience as an excuse, and all of you know that a good dealer makes for a game much more enjoyable. A good dealer works very hard to deal fast, make no mistakes, and also provide solid customer service. You need to know math, you need to have decent dexterity, you need to be friendly even if your dog just died or your kid is home sick or you worked fourteen days in a row because of the tournament series in the room. Off the felt you have to be reliable, you have to work well with your fellow dealers and supervisors - a good room is clean and organized and good dealers take time when not in the box ensuring their room looks and runs well. Sometimes you have to work shifts well beyond 8 hours and you have to be as sharp at hour 13 as you were when you first showed up. So the idea that anyone can deal is not one i subscribe to and it bothers me when I see it perpetuated especially among people who should know better.

How much per hour does an average table rake? $125?

by Bill Haywood m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59391456#post59391456)

How much per hour does an average table rake? $125?

In the room I work in we rake $5 a hand. I am pretty fast (one of my supervisors claimed with some surprise I tested the fasted in the room at one point) so lets say I can deal 20 hands a half hour. That's $100 a down if every hand reached full rake (which doesn't happen; a lot of longer hands would cut into the hands dealt anyway). So as long as a room has shuffle machines that work and dealers that are average (let's assume the average is 15 hands a down) and an average of $4 a hand would come to $120 an hour so that was a good guess! It would be more or less depending on the rake, of course. Not everyplace is $5 max.

When my friends and I take turns dealing at our home games, the pace feels really slow. But games I've seen in videos-and games I've played with a dedicated dealer-feel so much smoother. I always thought it was just a matter of dealing speed, so I practiced and got faster. Even then, our games still didn't have the same flow. I'm curious: what exactly do good dealers do that makes such a difference to how a game feels

by ss1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59162654#post59162654)

Naw, it's dumb to acknowledge this fact and dealers have a personal bias on this topic cuz OFC they're going to say that tips are necessary, but as poker players, we cannot escape the logic behind that if they don't have any influence on the cards, then why should they get tipped just for doing their basic job, vs not get blamed when the cards don't come out for players? Can't... See full post

It's not about having influence on cards. It's about having a clean, fast game that's dealt accurately. Taking the BS when you need to bitch at me for putting up that river T to finish the straight for the other guy is why you tip. If you choose not to tip good to great dealers, that's fine. Realize you're part of the reason so many of us leave the industry.

by WUQww m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59404372#post59404372)

When my friends and I take turns dealing at our home games, the pace feels really slow. But games I've seen in videos-and games I've played with a dedicated dealer-feel so much smoother. I always thought it was just a matter of dealing speed, so I practiced and got faster. Even then, our games still didn't have the same flow. I'm curious: what exactly do good dealers do that ma... See full post

We don't stop moving and we're always paying attention. Some of it is chip handling: change is made quickly and accurately. As dealers, we know what's going on and don't hesitate. I dealt my first poker card in January 98 and am a proficient roulette and craps dealer.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58961635#post58961635)

I loved music but had no musical talent so I spent a few decades doing various jobs in the music biz. (Sure, ask me about that if you want...)I loved poker but could not envision making a living playing the game so when the music biz went to hell, I transitioned to poker.I started dealing casino parties in Ohio when Chris Moneymaker kicked off the poker boom. I continued doing ... See full post

Hi ! I’m a student from China, and I’m doing a research project at my university related to Texas Hold’em. Unfortunately, Texas Hold’em poker isn’t that popular where I live, so I’m hoping to get some help from people on Two Plus Two. I’d really appreciate it if you could share a bit about your experience:

• How often do you play Texas Hold’em?
• Roughly how much of your Texas Hold’em poker is played with friends or family?（by percentage)
• If you play at home, do you usually have a dealer, or does someone from the group deal the cards? Even a quick answer would be really helpful for my research. Thanks a lot for taking the time to help!

by WUQww m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59404372#post59404372)

When my friends and I take turns dealing at our home games, the pace feels really slow. But games I've seen in videos-and games I've played with a dedicated dealer-feel so much smoother. I always thought it was just a matter of dealing speed, so I practiced and got faster. Even then, our games still didn't have the same flow. I'm curious: what exactly do good dealers do that ma... See full post

Shuffle machine helps big time. Even having someone shuffle another deck when passing the deal is not quite that fast. Otherwise, speed comes from a few things: Fast, Accurate Pitch

Interact with players when action is on them

Make change when you can during the hand

Anticipate the action

Move onto the next hand

My pitch is not great but it is fast and I don't flip many cards. When players see cards fly out to them, it encourages them to play faster themselves. By interact with players, just look at them when the action is on them. You can point without pointing too. Encouraging quick action doesn't always work but if your head is in the game, it helps keep the players in the game. I always do my best to make change while the action is occurring. It's way faster if I can do that and then, when the action closes, just take in all the bets and get the flop out rather than spend more time doing something I could have done earlier. Anticipate the action means you have an idea who will be betting and who will be checking. Sometimes I get ahead of the players. When that happens I am usually correct and will make a joke about how I have to go with my read. Moving onto the next hand means like a machine push the pot, move the button, drop the rake, drop the toke, gather the cards and get the next hand out. That may seem obvious, but some dealers will change the order up. Not me. If I do the same thing every time in the same order, I don't make any mistakes that will cost me some time ("Is the button right? Did I forget to move it?). I love to joke and make players laugh and have a good time but never at the expense of churning out as many hands as I can.

by WUQww m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59407780#post59407780)

• How often do you play Texas Hold’em?

I don't play as often as I would like because I work two jobs and have other interests (I see 50+ concerts a year) and a family. If I can get away to play 2-3 times a month, I am happy. Sometimes it's not small stakes NLHE - I play tourneys and also will dabble in mix games - but it's usually small stakes NLHE.

• Roughly how much of your Texas Hold’em poker is played with friends or family?（by percentage)

If you mean home games and the like, almost none at this point. I only play in casinos now.

• If you play at home, do you usually have a dealer, or does someone from the group deal the cards?

When I played actual for-fun home games, I would sometimes just deal. Sometimes we passed the deal. I used to deal bigger games for tips way before I worked in casinos and not play in them. But now that I can play several poker rooms within a few hours from where I live (and two of them are less than a half hour) I'd rather just play in a casino.

What is the biggest lesson you learned from observing the best players at your table?

by sm0kert m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59408732#post59408732)

What is the biggest lesson you learned from observing the best players at your table?

If you can play on the tighter side but can cultivate a table image that you are looser, you can make a lot of money. And there are ways to do this. Also, the good players I see tend to bet for value more (and are not afraid to do so light) and bluff less.

In the first two paragraphs of my poker room management book in the "Talking Dealers" chapter I wrote the following: If asked to name the worst problem that a poker room has, without any hesitation my response would be “Talking Dealers.” It’s an industry wide problem and I don’t know of any cardrooms that don’t suffer, at least to some degree, from this problem.

Now to be clear, the majority of dealers, at least the ones I’m familiar with, don’t fall into this category. In addition, to run a poker game, the dealer must talk sometimes, and saying things such as “It’s your turn to act” are not only necessary but important to keeping the game running in a smooth and efficient manner. But unfortunately, there are enough dealers who talk excessively, and this constant talking cannot only ruin the games, but more importantly create major problems for the poker room. Any comments or opinions?

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59409514#post59409514)

In the first two paragraphs of my poker room management book in the "Talking Dealers" chapter I wrote the following:... See full post

It's not a problem at all in LA because almost none of the dealers speak English. Probably more of a problem that they have no control of the game and the loudest doofus becomes table captain.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59409514#post59409514)

In the first two paragraphs of my poker room management book in the "Talking Dealers" chapter I wrote the following:... See full post

Yeah, I disagree with it. If I was dealing big games with poker professionals, that is very good advice. If I worked in a big tourist area like Vegas, I can see how that would be ideal. I am not doing that. I am dealing $1/3 NLHE with players who bought in less than $400 in most cases. They are there not to pay their bills, they want to play a game they enjoy. And I am dealing to the same regs I have seen for years, in low buy-in tournaments and trying to hit high hand jackpots. With some exceptions (who I will get to) people who play games for recreation realize it is a game and they want to have a good time doing so. Poker is a social game. Part of that good time is being social with the other players. I make a lot more money by being able to talk while also being one of the fastest dealers in my room than I would just being the fastest. I know this because I have over a decade dealing these stakes. I know this because the amount of players who will compliment me on my performance is too high to count. As for the exceptions, if I am at a table with enough of them (and having done this as long as I have, I can pick up on this pretty quickly) I am very capable of dummying up and dealing. Someone in the Breakroom thread here once said something along the lines of "A dealer who knows when to talk and when to shut up will do very well for themselves." I agree with that whole-heartedly. If me having enthusiasm for my job and a joy for the game is a negative in estimation, you obviously haven't played in the rooms that I deal.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59407816#post59407816)

Shuffle machine helps big time. Even having someone shuffle another deck when passing the deal is not quite that fast.Otherwise, speed comes from a few things:My pitch is not great but it is fast and I don't flip many cards. When players see cards fly out to them, it encourages them to play faster themselves.By interact with players, just look at them when the action is on them... See full post

Thank you very much for your reply! This is very helpful to me. If possible, I would also like to ask you, in your area, is it a common practice to have a dealer come to offer services for private Texas Hold’em poker games between friends or family members? If I want to hire a dealer, are there any good platforms where I can find and select a waiter? (Just the dealer for a private game, not for a large party) Once again, thank you for your help!

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59410126#post59410126)

Yeah, I disagree with it. If I was dealing big games with poker professionals, that is very good advice. If I worked in a big tourist area like Vegas, I can see how that would be ideal.[

Okay. I am not doing that. I am dealing $1/3 NLHE with players who bought in less than $400 in most cases. They are there not to pay their bills, they want to play a game they enjoy.

1. They'll enjoy playing more hands. Talking dealers slow up the game and if their not paying attention causes errors on their part, that can slow up the game even more.
2. Even though it's a small stakes game, you should assume that some of the players are playing with money that is significant to them. Thus, they may want a much more serious game than yo think. And I am dealing to the same regs I have seen for years, in low buy-in tournaments and trying to hit high hand jackpots.

This is certainly correct with some players. With some exceptions (who I will get to) people who play games for recreation realize it is a game and they want to have a good time doing so. Poker is a social game. Part of that good time is being social with the other players.

There are plenty of players at the table. If players want to get social with other players that should be their business. The dealer, who's getting paid to do a job, should do his job and not take part in the social stuff. I make a lot more money by being able to talk while also being one of the fastest dealers in my room than I would just being the fastest.

Most dealers make more money by dealing more hands and dealing them in an error free efficient manner. I know this because I have over a decade dealing these stakes.

Okay. I know this because the amount of players who will compliment me on my performance is too high to count.

There are a few dealers who can do a lot of talking and still get the hands out error free. Perhaps you're one of those. But even these dealers shouldn't talk much because it encourages lots of other dealers who can't deal well and talk non-stop to also talk away. As for the exceptions, if I am at a table with enough of them (and having done this as long as I have, I can pick up on this pretty quickly) I am very capable of dummying up and dealing.

Okay. Someone in the Breakroom thread here once said something along the lines of "A dealer who knows when to talk and when to shut up will do very well for themselves." I agree with that whole-heartedly.

Okay. But that's one person's opinion. If me having enthusiasm for my job and a joy for the game is a negative in estimation, you obviously haven't played in the rooms that I deal.

I've played in lots of poker rooms. Over the years, the worse problems I have seen at the poker usually occur because a dealer isn't paying attention, is talking non-stop sometimes sitting sideways in his chair. and a dispute develops because of an error that he makes. The floor will come over and the dealer will be asked what exactly happened and instead of say "I wasn't paying attention and don't know" the dealer will often give a version of the events that is so inaccurate that it will set off both players involved in the dispute.

And just to follow up on my post, the last two days I’ve played at Wynn Las Vegas. They probably have the best dealers in town. There’s almost no talking except to run the game, and they get lots of hands out.

Mason I cant help but feel that your critique of talking dealers is based mostly on your personal dislike for talking dealers. To me a dealer is a bit like a barkeeper. The best ones help set a positive atmosphere and keep the show running, make everybody feel welcome. If people wanted robotic dealers automated tables wouldn't have been the flop they turned out to be.

by WUQww m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59410299#post59410299)

Thank you very much for your reply! This is very helpful to me. If possible, I would also like to ask you, in your area, is it a common practice to have a dealer come to offer services for private Texas Hold'em poker games between friends or family members If I want to hire a dealer, are there any good platforms where I can find and select a waiter (Just the dealer for a privat... See full post

You're welcome! I don't think many dealers offer this. I know I wouldn't, not at this point in my life. I deal casino parties on the side still but they are licensed by the folks paying me. I am not likely to deal a raked home game these days even if it meant good money because there would be a non-zero chance that could bite me in the ass. I wouldn't want to lose my gaming licenses because I tried to make a couple hundred bucks some evening and something bad happened. Also, back when I first started dealers would play a rake-free game at a dual rate's apartment. That was fine. And then they invited some regs to the game. Cool regs we liked, but players nonetheless. At one game I got felted and one of the regs - a really nice guy who was a joy to deal with and fun to play with - lent me $100 to keep playing. I wound up losing it and he offered me another but I did not want to owe a player any more than that. I also made sure that I repaid him the very next day, putting it in a greeting card envelope at work. Even that was a risk, but I didn't know when I would see him outside of work and I put a priority on not having any outstanding debt. Someone I worked with had a habit of owing players money. One of the players got impatient and started calling the dealer out when they were in the box. Room brass caught wind of it, sat him down, and he probably could have got out of trouble if he just said he would pay the player back immediately. Instead he started babbling about how he owed other players money. And that was when they terminated him. You can always ask a dealer (do so when they are on break or a brush or is you see them in the wild, not when they're in the box). If you can't find someone to do it, there are casino party folks almost everywhere and they can probably hook you up with a dealer who knows what they are doing.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59410815#post59410815)

[QUOTE=NYCNative;59410126]1. They'll enjoy playing more hands. Talking dealers slow up the game and if their not paying attention causes errors on their part, that can slow up the game even more.

Did you not notice when I said I was the fastest dealer in my room 2. Even though it's a small stakes game, you should assume that some of the players are playing with money that is significant to them. Thus, they may want a much more serious game than yo think.

Respectfully, I think that as someone who have dealt to these players for over a decade that I may have a better idea of what works than you do. There are plenty of players at the table. If players want to get social with other players that should be their business. The dealer, who's getting paid to do a job, should do his job and not take part in the social stuff.

Disagree. Part of my job is being social. Not the main part, not at the expense of the other more important parts. But a part. Most dealers make more money by dealing more hands and dealing them in an error free efficient manner.

I make more money because I am fast and players like me. This may shock you, but some people don't just give a dollar when they win a pot, no matter the size, no matter the dealer. Some players tip dealers they like a little better than those they are ambivalent about. Not all, but some. Some players like me because I am fast and also keep a game running. Some of them like me because I can sometimes make them laugh or entertain them in some other way. And when those players win a pot, they toss an extra buck or two. And those add up. There are a few dealers who can do a lot of talking and still get the hands out error free. Perhaps you're one of those. But even these dealers shouldn't talk much because it encourages lots of other dealers who can't deal well and talk non-stop to also talk away.

I am one of them. And "too much" is really in the ear of the beholder. I never said I talk "non-stop." I said I talk when it's appropriate. You feel that any talk unrelated to the game or maybe to respond to a player is terrible. So anything would be "too much" in your estimation. I don't babble incessantly in the box. I am friendly and take the opportunity to make someone at the table laugh if the mood strikes me and I am looking at a table who seems receptive to this (which in my little commuter casino is frequent). And my jokes are not long stories that take up half the down. I have an arsenal of one-liners and quips that I get a lot of mileage out of, even with the same players whose biggest problem could be they've heard them all before (to which I say "they don't pay me enough to come up with new material," which also usually gets a chuckle). If "too much" for you is anything, then sure, I guess I do talk to much. But I have never dealt to you before. And unless I wind up getting to you in some big tournament series when I am semi-retired, I probably never will (and when I deal the big tournament series I do twice a year, i do talk a lot less). Okay. But that's one person's opinion.

It's some of the best advice that has even been dolled out in that thread, according to a hell of a lot of us in there. Mainly because you seem fixated on the part about knowing when to talk. There is a knowing when to not talk component there, you know. Like when you're at the table in a big mixed game, most likely. I've played in lots of poker rooms. Over the years, the worse problems I have seen at the poker usually occur because a dealer isn't paying attention, is talking non-stop sometimes sitting sideways in his chair. and a dispute develops because of an error that he makes. The floor will come over and the dealer will be asked what exactly happened and instead of say "I wasn't paying attention and don't know" the dealer will often give a version of the events that is so inaccurate that it will set off both players involved in the dispute.

I'm not most dealers. I don't claim to be perfect, but any mistake I make is because I made a mistake, not because I was talking. And when I am having a day where I do not feel at my best, you know what I do Talk a lot less.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411181#post59411181)

And just to follow up on my post, the last two days I’ve played at Wynn Las Vegas. They probably have the best dealers in town. There’s almost no talking except to run the game, and they get lots of hands out.

If I dealt at the Wynn, at a game that you and other professionals are playing, I would almost assuredly not talk as much as I do dealing $1/3 in a tiny commuter casino in the Northeast. I made that disclaimer known several times in this thread. I will say that the handful of times I played in Vegas at my standard low stakes, I always do my best to have fun with the dealers and cocktail servers because that helps me enjoy the experience. I don't think I ever played at the Wynn and as a Caesar's Diamond Plus, I usually try and only play at CET rooms because they are giving me free rooms and other perks and I kinda want that to continue.

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411195#post59411195)

Mason I cant help but feel that your critique of talking dealers is based mostly on your personal dislike for talking dealers. To me a dealer is a bit like a barkeeper. The best ones help set a positive atmosphere and keep the show running, make everybody feel welcome. If people wanted robotic dealers automated tables wouldn't have been the flop they turned out to be.

( bartender comparison is spot-on. Some people want their glass filled and to be left alone. Others enjoy a bartender who can regale them about the local area, the local sports teams, or tell them the best joke they know. When I was just a teenager and waiting on tables at a Ground Round, one lunch shift I was slow and I wound up being a pain in the ass to a table with one woman just trying to eat her lunch. My manager told me "she said she thought you wanted to join her for lunch." I kept that lesson in my mind at every service-oriented job I have had ever since.

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411195#post59411195)

Mason I cant help but feel that your critique of talking dealers is based mostly on your personal dislike for talking dealers. To me a dealer is a bit like a barkeeper. The best ones help set a positive atmosphere and keep the show running, make everybody feel welcome. If people wanted robotic dealers automated tables wouldn't have been the flop they turned out to be.

That’s correct. I dislike dealers who talk non-stop, don’t pay attention, and make lots of errors. An interesting aspect to this is that when you make dealers follow procedures they make more money. As for bartenders, they’re not making decisions that affect people’s money.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411823#post59411823)

If I dealt at the Wynn, at a game that you and other professionals are playing, I would almost assuredly not talk as much as I do dealing $1/3 in a tiny commuter casino in the Northeast. I made that disclaimer known several times in this thread.I will say that the handful of times I played in Vegas at my standard low stakes, I always do my best to have fun with the dealers and ... See full post

A minor point but I’m not a professional player. Also, players who constantly talk to dealers not only slow the game down but cost the dealer money in less opportunities to earn a tip.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411825#post59411825)

The bartender comparison is spot-on. Some people want their glass filled and to be left alone. Others enjoy a bartender who can regale them about the local area, the local sports teams, or tell them the best joke they know.When I was just a teenager and waiting on tables at a Ground Round, one lunch shift I was slow and I wound up being a pain in the ass to a table with one wom... See full post

Again, bartenders have little to do with poker dealers.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411902#post59411902)

That’s correct. I dislike dealers who talk non-stop, don’t pay attention, and make lots of errors.

This is a very different statement from the original one. Earlier you said that a dealer should not speak at all beside when he has to speak up to keep the game moving. by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411902#post59411902)

An interesting aspect to this is that when you make dealers follow procedures they make more money.

You claim this but have not provided any proof. It might be the case or not be the case. according to NYC Native this is untrue. by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411902#post59411902)

As for bartenders, they’re not making decisions that affect people’s money.

Yes a dealer and a barkeeper do not do teh exact same job but there are similarities. With all due respect from your posting on this forum you come across like an incredibly grumpy man that doesn't really understand social interactions. So i don't think you are really teh person to ask what people would like in a social environment.

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59412044#post59412044)

This is a very different statement from the original one. Earlier you said that a dealer should not speak at all beside when he has to speak up to keep the game moving.

They should do their job and talk as little as possible. That should be clear. You claim this but have not provided any proof. It might be the case or not be the case. according to NYC Native this is untrue.

Why do you want dealers to talk, not pay attention, and cause problems? Surely they don't make as much money when this is the case. Yes a dealer and a barkeeper do not do teh exact same job but there are similarities.

Perhaps there are some similarities, but the difference is so great they shouldn't be compared. Have you ever seen a player scream at a bartender because that bartender's error (in the player's mind) just cost him a lot of money? With all due respect from your posting on this forum you come across like an incredibly grumpy man that doesn't really understand social interactions.

So you don't like what I say and advocate and you make a personal attack. I put things like this up here so that people, and this includes someone like you, can discuss them and debate them. That's what 2+2 was always about from the very beginning starting in 1997. But I guess you can't handle that. So i don't think you are really teh person to ask what people would like in a social environment.

Amazing.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59409514#post59409514)

In the first two paragraphs of my poker room management book in the "Talking Dealers" chapter I wrote the following:... See full post

May I? There are lots of dealers that want to be the centre of attention and I largely don't care if you're one of the top ones at whatever location they're at. If you can't talk to players without screwing up every hand, shut up. I also want the dealer to shut up about how the game is played. Too many want to be Mike Sexton and comment on every hand. "Should have raised, that's why you lost" needs to be an instant write up. As in, find a relief and in the GSM office inside a minute. However, the converse is also true. There needs to be more speaking from some dealers. Every board card requires an update on live players (except when you're heads up and that's been announced) and "raise" needs to be announced. "Call" on unambiguous chips needs to end. I need RedZone not play by play.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411817#post59411817)

Did you not notice when I said I was the fastest dealer in my roomRespectfully, I think that as someone who have dealt to these players for over a decade that I may have a better idea of what works than you do.Disagree. Part of my job is being social. Not the main part, not at the expense of the other more important parts. But a part.I make more money because I am fast and play... See full post

As a fellow dealer, when I work, I really like your reply. Part of the job is being social and I cosign entirely. If a player doesn't want to be social, don't engage the dealer and put your headphones in. Lots of other ones do and we'll work with those. Also cosign the quips and oneliners being basic kit for this job. Miles upon miles off of good ones like a stickman on craps. As far as "I make more when I deal fast", that's contextually important. When you're dealing in a place that lets you go for your own, I wholeheartedly agree. However, in all of the other places that don't (like the entirety of Canada), going fast is strictly for your own personal pride and entertainment. Shitty games with shitty players get basic mode. Great games with good people get the varsity.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411902#post59411902)

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411195#post59411195)

That's correct. I dislike dealers who talk non-stop, don't pay attention, and make lots of errors.

I do not talk "non-stop," I do pay attention, and I rarely make errors, so I am very glad you're not talking about me! An interesting aspect to this is that when you make dealers follow procedures they make more money.

I also follow procedures, sometimes at the expense of making money (I don't rabbit hunt, I make sure time rake gets paid with a late-arriving player who still showed up in time to pay it as per room policy, I flip over cards when someone is constantly showing them to their neighbors so everyone can see them, and those are just the top of my head). As for bartenders, they're not making decisions that affect people's money.

A bartender can be held responsible if they serve someone who goes out and wraps their car around a tree or kills someone else. They have to choose to cut off the guy who maybe had one too many even though they are tipping a fortune and having a good time. A poker dealer does not make decisions that affect the life of their customer, or the liquor license of the casino. The analogy may not be perfect but it fits.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411906#post59411906)

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411823#post59411823)

A minor point but I'm not a professional player.

The game you play is likely filled with them. Does that make you the fish 😀 Also, players who constantly talk to dealers not only slow the game down but cost the dealer money in less opportunities to earn a tip.

Sometimes a superbly chatty player can be a problem. Fortunately I am usually able to churn out the hands, being polite to the chatterbox while showing the rest of the table that I am not letting them slow down the game.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59411908#post59411908)

Again, bartenders have little to do with poker dealers.

I already answered this but I will also say that both jobs involve deciding what the customer wants in terms of interaction. You think there should be ZERO interaction and maybe you want that with your bartenders (or maybe you do not drink) but many people (and I) disagree that should be the case for a poker dealer as a cut and dried rule.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59414159#post59414159)

I do not talk "non-stop," I do pay attention, and I rarely make errors, so I am very glad you're not talking about me!

It's also my experience that when you tell a non-stop talking dealer who clearly isn't paying attention to talk less and to watch the games, they'll almost always tell you that they're dealing perfectly. I hope that's not the case with you (and from your comments it probably isn't). The point here is that it's really up to poker room management to assure that their dealers are dealing well.Some rooms in Vegas, such as the Wynn, seem to do this very well. Other rooms, and I won't mention any, not as much. However, and this is important, the trend seems to be that more poker room management does seem to understand that their dealers need to follow procedures better than they did in the past. I believe our dealer's book and my poker room management book is helping in this area.

I think your dealers and poker room management book have very close to 0 impact. You severely overestimate your importance or the importance of your opinion.. by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59413065#post59413065)

They should do their job and talk as little as possible. That should be clear.

That's your opinion not s statement of fact. This whole argument is ridiculous because you talk about what you want and suits you and just call it the right way to do it. I honestly believe that you cant distinguish between these 2 things but they are very different. by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59413065#post59413065)

Why do you want dealers to talk, not pay attention, and cause problems? Surely they don't make as much money when this is the case.

Thats not what i said at all. Once again you fail to understand what is being talked about. Your original position is so ridiculous that you need to make up arguments nobody made. The money point has been already addressed. you just provide an assertion but have not provided any proof or argument. by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59413065#post59413065)

Perhaps there are some similarities, but the difference is so great they shouldn't be compared. Have you ever seen a player scream at a bartender because that bartender's error (in the player's mind) just cost him a lot of money?

You just have no understanding of the social aspect of the job. You seem in general to have very little understanding of this. by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59413065#post59413065)

So you don't like what I say and advocate and you make a personal attack. I put things like this up here so that people, and this includes someone like you, can discuss them and debate them. That's what 2+2 was always about from the very beginning starting in 1997. But I guess you can't handle that. Amazing.

It's not a personal attack at all. It is in an observation. You come across as extremely grumpy and non social person.

by Mason Malmuth m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59414284#post59414284)

It's also my experience that when you tell a non-stop talking dealer who clearly isn't paying attention to talk less and to watch the games, they'll almost always tell you that they're dealing perfectly. I hope that's not the case with you (and from your comments it probably isn't).

If I am making mistakes, I am usually aware of the fact I made a mistake. My mistakes are very infrequent and almost never because I am talking. If I am having a rough down, I tend to get quieter because I am internally beating myself up for not being on the top of my game and also because of optics because some (like you) will assume the mistakes are brought about because of my talking. The point here is that it's really up to poker room management to assure that their dealers are dealing well.Some rooms in Vegas, such as the Wynn, seem to do this very well. Other rooms, and I won't mention any, not as much.

My break-in room anointed me a Role Model and I was promoted to Dual Rate. I have been at my current room for twelve years in December. I don't work there often (I am on call) but if they didn't like what I bring to the room, they have no incentive to keep me. However, and this is important, the trend seems to be that more poker room management does seem to understand that their dealers need to follow procedures better than they did in the past. I believe our dealer's book and my poker room management book is helping in this area.

I follow procedures even when it comes at a personal cost. When I first interviewed for a poker room opening up in what became my break-in casino, the interviewers did not care that I dealt casino parties for the past several years, or that I was a semi-regular player. They cared that I smiled, could hold a conversation, and was personable. That is the trend in many corporate-owned casinos. You may not like that casinos expect their dealers to "entertain the guests" (literally an expectation of the job). I didn't like that I was tasked to sing a song in a group interview once. But your dislike won't change it.

Have you ever dealt a BBJP and if so, how big were the tips from the best hand, 2nd best hand along with table shares? Largest pot ever dealt? Do you enjoy dealing mixed games and if so how are the tips compared to a 1/3 game? With the limited amount of hands seen per down, I tip larger during mix games. TYIA