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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

524 replies

okiehustlerNewbie1 posts
Posted Jul 22, 2008, 4:53 AM#1

Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched to Full Tilt six months ago. The first few months were much better over on Full Tilt. Now Full Tilt is worse than Poker Stars ever was. The past month has been brutal. Tonight I've had pocket aces six times. All six times I lost to someone with a lower pocket pair. I can't tell you how many times (at least 100 times the past thee weeks) where someone needs one card, especially two or three hours into a tournament, and they hit when odds are 90 to 95% in my favor. You tell yourself that's poker until it happens time after time after time. I enjoy playing poker online but I'm about ready to give it up. There doesn't seem to be a site to where it plays out like a casino. You see bad beats in a casino but NOTHING like Full Tilt and Poker Stars back when I played over on that site. Curious as to others observations. Is there a site that's on the up and up or is it time to retire from online poker where you start to get the feeling the deck literally is stacked against you? * Edit/MH: See: by franxic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=41155721#post41155721)

I hereby confirm what Bobo said for the record:It is possible to rig random number generators. Everyone please refrain from making false statements about what I said and didn't say. I made that exact statement several times itt. Here, i acknowledged it.It was acknowledged at least a combined 500 times from about every non-riggie posting itt, yet riggies keep repeating that poin... See full post

Interesting thread of old, about https://gwern.net/doc/cs/cryptography/20... (https://gwern.net/doc/cs/cryptography/2006-arkin.pdf) : https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/com... (https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1wbvn/how_we_learned_to_cheat_at_online_poker_a_study/)

yueNewbie2 posts
Posted Jan 18, 2024, 2:27 AM#2

Just from observations but I doubt online poker is rigged. These sites can and do shut down accounts. We see stables that collude and do other shady things on the site. If online poker was rigged, then we wouldn't see stuff like this. It's just that simple. These sites are raking in millions of dollars, why risk it for a few bucks?

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Jan 18, 2024, 10:47 PM#4

Looks like a good video for one of the many threads about botting and colluding. Rigging? Not so much.

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Jan 26, 2024, 7:09 AM#5

by Monteroy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=57380896#post57380896)

Makes sense as many of them would be incapable of beating the online games, and many of them may lack the technical skills to be competitive in that separate game type.Refuse as in never play a live event ever - not really. Refuse in the sense that playing live is something they do once in a while for fun, but they have no interest in sitting next to smelly, whiny dudes for ho... See full post

How dare you not wish him all the best. I command you to pm him an all the best. I command you to apologize to every riggie you humiliated in this thread on account of them now being proven right. Private botting and RTA existing years before public found out now coming to light. The riggies are all proven correct and I will remind you that there is an ultimate revenger of justice who vowed in his fury to get revenge on this world for their thefts as one of the listed sins he will return for. Now make right by us and apologize, don't let your mocking of the truth snowball further.

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Jan 26, 2024, 10:05 AM#6

Now that Monteroy has experienced his full humiliation and complete defeat to the riggies he mocked for all this time, this thread has become even more legendary than before. We will not discredit Monteroys hilarious writing over the years. We recognize the laughter and joy we gained from his effort post beatdowns he delivered upon us. With all sincerity, thank you for your presence and writing Monteroy. We will not hate Monteroy, we appreciate that if he was not here, this thread would never of been one of the beautiful online comedies that the internet ever had. If we ever discover that Monteroy hates the God of our King James Bibles, with this exception, it would be our duty to hate him in return. If he only hates us riggies, then we are to bless him and do good unto him. In doing so heaping coals of fire upon his head, as the scripture says. Monteroy, if he cares more for his ego than the truth, may never post here again and we may never get his apology. Now that the jig is up and everyone is aware that cheating has been occurring the entire time with all the methods and the scope of corruption being revealed recently, there is no credible ground he can stand on and feel confident about anymore. Even he must admit it's always been rigged. Though if he stands on the ground of personal insults and mocking us, he will still feel confident, but we are immune from this after enduring it so long. So Monteroy, from all us riggies unto you, ALL THE BEST!!!!

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Jan 26, 2024, 10:39 AM#7

wait did i miss something was a rigged deal discovered anywhere?

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Jan 26, 2024, 2:35 PM#8

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58433784#post58433784)

wait did i miss something was a rigged deal discovered anywhere?

For some reason KOFighter seems to be coming back from his stint here in 2020 and quoting a 2020 post. Maybe he's going to work his way through the six and a half thousand posts since then? Let's hope his further responses will be as engrossing.

Spud GunNewbie3 posts
Posted Jan 27, 2024, 1:31 PM#9

Riggies always conflate site rigging with players cheating. No idea why.

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Feb 3, 2024, 3:52 AM#11

Even if there was even one site which had convincing regulation, we should always assume there is built-in "accidental security flaws" that are leaked to various insiders like the recent GGpoker one which utilized a common emote. Just because after years the public finally uncovered that one, take it to the bank, there is many more undetected they still use. Monteroy and his armies mocked you for trusting your senses, gaslighting you, showing no mercy and no consideration for us 9 to 5 riggies that just wanted a fair game, even if we were still gonna lose. If you are a sincere truther, if you know that you are critically honest with yourself, trust your instincts more. Even if you aren't 100% right, your God-given radars are on to something. It might be soulcrushing to realize you were swindled and kept denying what you knew all these years, but God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sows, that shall be reap. FOR US RIGGIES WHO WERE SCAMMED: If you are a sincere truther riggie at heart like most common men are, you are also likely still humble enough to believe the gospel and be 100% certain of your eternal life. If you are able to believe your sin was paid for by Jesus on the cross, you are guaranteed salvation from hell. FOR THOSE WORKERS OF INIQUITY: The thieves that intentionally cheated us commoners of our money are blinded to the truth and this life is their consolation. "Woe unto ye rich, for ye have received your consolation." He didn't say that statement in vain. FOR MONTEROY: I really got a heart for you man on account of your writing and effort posting. I can't help but think deep down you never hated us riggies and it was primarily for the sake of the comedy of this thread you pressed on. This whole thread is one of the funniest reads in internet history and always will be. Honestly if you sold a book of all your posts I'd buy it and campaign for others to buy it too. I hope you too will believe on Jesus so I can meet you in the new world one day.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Feb 3, 2024, 10:43 PM#12

Oh, my sweet summer child...

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Feb 5, 2024, 11:46 AM#13

Seriously it's unfair that comedy writers get paid for their efforts and Monteroy who reminds me so much of 27bslash6 writing for some reason, did all this for free. I earlier said he and his armies showed no mercy mocking us but that was an exaggeration and not true. He did show mercy by always suggesting us riggies never play again. He always kept offers open to take the time to read riggie hand history evidence too. If they did post the evidence, which of course hand history would prove nothing and always be explained away by variance, this is when Monteroys best comedy writing would come on display. "Stakes in which pennies are involved" type quotes come to my mind. Of course it's likely Monteroy was accurately destroying most riggies, but also remains possible there was particular leaked security flaws which could let a user choose or know the next drawn card and a bot with this data is the one crushing them at the nanostakes. Afterall if you can make a working system for one stake it can work in all the stakes. The riggies didn't think about the obvious angle, the software has plausible deniability security flaws built in to it and leaked to whoever the shot callers/software devs wanted. The sky is the limit for what info could be obtained by security flaws. In the recent GGpoker one it was Allin equity. If the rig is done in this way, it can always be explained and excused as accidental, legal blame could never be clearly placed on anyone, especially in most countries the poker software is hosted from. Nevermind the easy cheats like bot farms and private RTA abuse that has been taking place since possibly the beginnings of online poker (When RTA went public it should be assumed it's been privately in use for at least a decade). The best and easiest way to cheat is just old fashioned security flaw superuser type cheating and the people who it's leaked to just ensure their winrates stay within normal crusher range. Hell they could even have bot software that can interpret the security flaws info to play for you and keep winrates within normal range. That allin equity info on GGpokers built in security flaw from the emote is a money printer for anyone who knew it. Independent people finding it on their own and abusing it with too much greed is the only way it was ever caught. Obviously there is gonna be more sec flaws to abuse for the evil men who eat good off our deposits. MONTEROY WAS RIGHT, IF YOU ARE JUST A NORMAL COMMONER RIGGEY, FLEE ONLINE POKER. Online poker is now seen as worse than slot machine tier gambling to me.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Feb 5, 2024, 1:23 PM#14

Are you like buttoning your own posts? Lmfao

MR_UNOWENNewbie2 posts
Posted Feb 5, 2024, 6:45 PM#15

ok, i'm in for a +1

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Feb 20, 2024, 9:05 AM#18

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58433963#post58433963)

For some reason KOFighter seems to be coming back from his stint here in 2020 and quoting a 2020 post. Maybe he's going to work his way through the six and a half thousand posts since then? Let's hope his further responses will be as engrossing.

yeah thats what i thought. thanks mate by Spud Gun m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58435267#post58435267)

Riggies always conflate site rigging with players cheating. No idea why.

its super weird isn't it? I think nobody ever suggested there weren't cheaters in poker or pretty much any type of competition with money wagered on it. Man there has been cheating in professional fishing for ****s sake. by KOFighter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58446477#post58446477)

Even if there was even one site which had convincing regulation, we should always assume there is built-in "accidental security flaws" that are leaked to various insiders like the recent GGpoker one which utilized a common emote. Just because after years the public finally uncovered that one, take it to the bank, there is many more undetected they still use.Monteroy and his ar... See full post

Dude what the hell are you on about? There hasn't. been any rig proven. Nobody said there aren't cheaters. There are all kind of cheaters. Just not the type that can make sure a specific card peels of the deck in a key spot. Not in online poker at least thats only happening in live poker settings.

MR_UNOWENNewbie2 posts
Posted Feb 21, 2024, 6:59 PM#20

by TheStackHunter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58471711#post58471711)

https://play.globalpoker.com/hand/6b44fd... (https://play.globalpoker.com/hand/6b44fd3e-1b18-3759-bccd-d31b59360226) All day and night. Any time I sit down. For years. I know. It's variance, right? Well then...the game's kind of pointless.

ffs, bet bigger on the flop. lol, true, but just bustn on ya. those are not fun outcomes. your opponent was probably thinking over cards in comparison to the flop was a big deal. you really should do well v that player long term.

DonKINNewbie1 posts
Posted Feb 27, 2024, 10:10 AM#22

[I've Been playing on ACR now for a couple years I have over 200,000 Hands played! I've been noticing A trend that is happening More then it should be.... 1.) I've noticed if your the one Jamming/Going ALL IN! I'm really confident it gives you a edge to win the hand no matter what the holdings are! I've started documenting how many times I've lost and won on both sides of the equity percentages! For instance how many times I jam all in and am 80%+ to win and I end up losing. And visa Versa how many times I Jam/ALL IN and I'm the underdog 2-20% to win and end up winning. I'm not done with all the testing but I know from experience and from the time playing in the site, you have a better chance of winning if you are the player going all in no matter what the equity is. It's as if the software awards aggression! Which I know in Live poker being aggressive can help you win more pots! But it doesn't change the outcome of what cards come on the flop turn and river like it does on ACR.... Like Sammy Farha said "The One Who Bets The Most Wins. Cards Just Break Ties." I will write more on this subject again soon, after more analysis and evidence to support my theory. I encourage everyone who plays on this site to take a deeper dive for themselves and all us players to have a fair playing experience... I'm certain if a investigation was to happen something would come of this... At least take a look into the software and the RNG!! I look forward to hearing back from you all! Good Luck On the Felt!]

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Feb 28, 2024, 9:13 PM#23

Great work. Monteroy will not respond because he knows the veil has been lifted. Rigging and cheating at cards go back to ancient times. There is nothing new under the sun!

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Feb 29, 2024, 6:48 AM#24

by KOFighter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479180#post58479180)

Great work. Monteroy will not respond because

...because he hasn't posted on 2+2 in 4 months? by KOFighter m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479180#post58479180)

he knows the veil has been lifted. Rigging and cheating at cards go back to ancient times. There is nothing new under the sun!

Oh. OK then. I guess you would know, as you seem pretty obsessed with him.

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Feb 29, 2024, 4:00 PM#25

by DonKIN m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58477788#post58477788)

[I've Been playing on ACR now for a couple years I have over 200,000 Hands played! I've been noticing A trend that is happening More then it should be....1.) I've noticed if your the one Jamming/Going ALL IN! I'm really confident it gives you a edge to win the hand no matter what the holdings are! I've started documenting how many times I've lost and won on both sides of the eq... See full post

How exactly does the site benefit from this and why the hell arent you benefiting from this. If I found out about this i would be 4 bet shoving my small suited aces all day long until the cows come home!

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Mar 1, 2024, 9:35 PM#26

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58479618#post58479618)

...because he hasn't posted on 2+2 in 4 months? Oh. OK then. I guess you would know, as you seem pretty obsessed with him.

Monteroy battling and roasting us riggies reminds me of the old online era, so I want to keep talking trash on him til he comes back and enters the arena once again.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Mar 2, 2024, 7:36 AM#27

Sounds exciting.

QuadsmasterNewbie2 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2024, 3:08 AM#28

i have been active on that platform for a few month now. i am someone who deposits there weekly, once or twice on average instead of big ones every few months, and the thing that is ABSOLUTELY noticeable, is that each time i make a deposit i run extremely good. i manage to make a profit of 300-400bb in a couple of hours on average, it goes without saying that it is nothing like that a day or any time later. i really think this is one of the ways they are rigging their site by boosting win rates for players who deposit and i have found an exploit (although some people are probably already abusing the **** of it and keeping it to themselves) This pattern is there from what ive observed at the last 8-10 times i made a deposit, it keeps repeating in the same manner. when you put money into the system you give others the bad beats, winning with a straight vs lower straights, flipping sets and full houses like crazy win every allin ect.. it is NOTHING like that after a couple of days, you are not even close to running that hot, not in the not in the slightest. if anyone here has the motivation to "investigate", this is the direction. i dont think it would be too hard to obtain evidence by comparing EV and bb/per hour on regular accounts and on those who have just made a deposit. a few screenshots to illustrate. i know that this is not solid evidence for anything but its my 2 cents, hopefully they get busted someday, cause from my experience, i know for sure that they are not providing fair play and definitely favor and benefit players under certain conditions.

nootaboosMicro-Stakes Grinder20 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2024, 3:37 AM#29

Yeah, nah. Potentially has much more to do with the fact that when you deposit you are determined to play better, then after a couple of sessions or one bad beat normality creeps in and you start donk attacking and punt off your BR.

PunkerRegular27 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2024, 6:29 AM#30

Im fascinated to understand what you think those screenshots show. A 67 hand session and a 551 hand session where in both you won over 20% of the hands. On one, you won 57% of showdowns but on the other only 30%. You don't indicate whether you made a deposit or not before these sessions or whether you won or not during these sessions. There have been enough supposedly outlandish claims made over the years in this forum that turned out to be true that I never dismiss them out of hand anymore, but you're just giving us nothing here. And one last question - if you know "for sure", you have a free money printing press. Go for it and let us know how it works.

blazarMicro-Stakes Grinder16 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2024, 6:33 AM#31

I'm not sure if this is entirely true but somehow i can relate to this, i haven't deposited single penny since first deposit and game constantly tries to bust me but i always move down stakes and grind back, running cycles like a mouse, i'm micro/low stakes player you can check my thread in goals what coolers and bad beats i got lately it's damn insane and after i won last BBJ and placed top 20 in daily flipout things got worse and worse I noticed i was doing pretty well when my red lane was high and i was 3betting a lot and bluffing a lot post flop, winning pots before showdown but as soon as i adapted to more stable playing style to win more at showdowns with better hands things got worse Maybe this is just normal variance, maybe not but im starting to believe that online poker can be programmed as they want to give us hard time, live poker is purest form as it should be, online poker is just simulation and cannot be 100% trusted in my opinion

ProffesionalMalakaMicro-Stakes Grinder5 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2024, 6:39 AM#32

Fish are just fascinated with poker sites rigging RNG. Despite it being the only form of cheating that was never proven in the last 20 years aka never happened, and despite the fact it is by far the hardest way for a poker site to cheat you. Forget unbeatable rake with ambiguous rake back, house bots, forget RTA, VPN(half of GG is playing from Austria ok lol), super using, or any form of collusion… your opponent hitting a flush is the biggest red flag.

QuadsmasterNewbie2 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2024, 10:43 PM#33

by Punker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58491657#post58491657)

Im fascinated to understand what you think those screenshots show. A 67 hand session and a 551 hand session where in both you won over 20% of the hands. On one, you won 57% of showdowns but on the other only 30%. You don't indicate whether you made a deposit or not before these sessions or whether you won or not during these sessions.There have been enough supposedly outlandish... See full post

the screenshots are a typical example of how "good" i run after every deposit i make. as you can see im up 300bb+ in a short time in both cases and it is like that all the time for when i deposit. i never hit those numbers otherwise, only badbeats mostly or just a regular non profitable game. i deposit more than 15 times on the site. small amouts, usually once a week, and it is always like that, they are boosting people who deposit by giving them easy boards and an advantage. by ProffesionalMalaka m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58491665#post58491665)

Fish are just fascinated with poker sites rigging RNG. Despite it being the only form of cheating that was never proven in the last 20 years aka never happened, and despite the fact it is by far the hardest way for a poker site to cheat you. Forget unbeatable rake with ambiguous rake back, house bots, forget RTA, VPN(half of GG is playing from Austria ok lol), super using, or a... See full post

doesnt mean they wont try and maximize profits

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 11, 2024, 12:19 PM#34

variance, look it up

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 12, 2024, 7:22 PM#35

It's not just variance. It's ego and lack of discipline Even the best players go through downswings. They just end up profiting anyway because variance has nothing to do with your true win or loss rate. Variance just determines how large or small your swings will be, be that up or down... It is very hard to handle the downswings psychologically. The reason people believe in the "cash out curse" is because they are seeing things that aren't actually happening. Cashing out doesn't make you lose. It's just that a withdrawal coinciding with a downswing yields an association which combines with the already difficult effect losing has on the mind... Your bankroll is always going up or down. Deposits and withdrawals have nothing to do with it The other issue is a lot of players have lower true win rates than they think they do and either can't, or refuse to comprehend/admit that. There are also a lot of losing players who think they're supposed to be winning players when they just aren't ever going to plug their own leaks or are too arrogant and/or lazy to even try to do so. So many other reasons Within that, variance makes it very difficult to navigate the process of yielding profit. If you think online poker is "pointless" because of variance, then I've got news for you. You just don't handle it well and you also may not actually be beating the rake and your opponents in the long run. Luck obfuscates the true hierarchy of skill, but skill wins out in the long run every single time. I and others I know are living proof of that Also, if you hate variance in online poker, then daily fantasy sports would like to say "hold my beer" Dfs is ****ing impossible and way way WAY higher variance than poker. Poker is like an ATM machine to me. Dfs...I strained myself trying to get better and all I yielded was a few grand... Suffice to say, losing ****ing sucks and affects you more than winning does. It is not a 1:1 effect on the mind. You have to understand, accept, and be prepared for that if you want a chance to have success. Even good players go broke because it isn't just about being good at a poker. You have to manage your ego and have discipline too, both in understanding the math and how to properly manage your bankroll (assuming you actually even beat whatever games you choose to play in the first place)

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Mar 14, 2024, 6:10 PM#36

by Quadsmaster m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58491424#post58491424)

... i have found an exploit (although some people are probably already abusing the **** of it and keeping it to themselves) ...

Those good for nothing's!!! How dare they cheat you like that!?

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 19, 2024, 8:00 PM#37

See another potential problem with the site is this. You're playing with the biggest fish and you run normal for a particular period of time. Then you getting a downswing and I don't care what hand you have you cannot win. So it seems weird because no matter what you do you lose. So this is where people start to question am I playing against bots. Because they go well my win rate is down. And I'm saying yes this happens at every site but on this site it's a constant thing for me anyway. Other sites I might have normal runs for two three four months before I have a down swing. On ignition I have a down swing right after I have an upswing every single time playing against the worst players on the planet. It just doesn't make any sense this is why I say I'm not sure that I 100% by the random generator on the site. This could also be people's experience and they attributed to bots and it may not be

mycorrhizaeMicro-Stakes Grinder5 posts
Posted Mar 20, 2024, 12:53 AM#38

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58503351#post58503351)

See another potential problem with the site is this. You're playing with the biggest fish and you run normal for a particular period of time. Then you getting a downswing and I don't care what hand you have you cannot win. So it seems weird because no matter what you do you lose. So this is where people start to question am I playing against bots. Because they go well my win ra... See full post

I think the higher rake and worse players leads to bigger capacity for large swings, ESPECIALLY if you aren't table selecting. But idk that might not even be true. Hands also play slower than other sites so that doesn't help the feeling of how long a run is lasting.

TheHighlandRoomNewbie1 posts
Posted Mar 20, 2024, 7:08 PM#39

I own a video that to anyone else but me could look as though the hand I played was fixed, as I clearly lost the hand and the software said I had won with a 9 high straight and I was paid out as the winner, I did not make a straight I had 7 high, the hand was played out to the end, which included betting /calling and checking. My opponent should of won the this with a pair but lost. I got the sites replayer up and immediately checked everything, then of course I took a picture of the hand and number and then made a video of the poker hand, I tried to get in touch with Ipoker and Betfair but after spending hours running around talking to bots and chat reps telling them I wanted to talk with Betfair, which they would not do unless certain conditions were met, so I gave up. I think it would be easier to talk with Genghis Khan I then emailed Playtech to see if this would interest them, and got a nice reply saying unfortunatly they can do nothing to help as it comes under the privacy regulations with my account and was told its up to the site which hold's my account. So now I own a video which could possibly be as rare as hen's teeth, if nothing else it will be my party piece among the live poker community. Ps. would love to know if anyone else has a similar video.

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Mar 22, 2024, 2:26 PM#40

why dont you post the video. i would certainly be interested in. seeing that.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 25, 2024, 1:03 PM#42

Like the thing I'm saying is on this site whenever you're in a hand with someone they always have it. I just don't know how it's possible. For example I have played over 400,000 hands on global poker and I would say overall you run into streaks of course where somebody is hitting a ton of hands but overall I would say it's a pretty decent mix of sometime they have it sometime they're bluffing. On ignition poker they have it every single time which I find truly impossible to be backed up with numbers. I mean every time you have the King high flush they have the asai flush. It's not once in awhile it's every time and of course I'm talking about pot limit Omaha here. But this is where I just don't buy the we have a 100% random deal thing. But this is where I'm saying maybe some of the problems people are experiencing are not bots and maybe it's just the deal of the cards on this particular site. And to be clear I'm saying the same thing happens with me I have the stone nuts and the other guy always has the second nuts. It just doesn't seem realistic to me

stefanprodanNewbie3 posts
Posted Mar 25, 2024, 5:33 PM#43

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58509694#post58509694)

Like the thing I'm saying is on this site whenever you're in a hand with someone they always have it. I just don't know how it's possible. For example I have played over 400,000 hands on global poker and I would say overall you run into streaks of course where somebody is hitting a ton of hands but overall I would say it's a pretty decent mix of sometime they have it sometime t... See full post

I have played like a million hands on ignition and I have no idea what you are talking about regarding specifically this issue

pontyladMicro-Stakes Grinder17 posts
Posted Mar 25, 2024, 7:33 PM#44

Jungmit, I literally remember you posting 15 years ago the exact same "rigged" stuff as you're doing now. It raises so many questions.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 25, 2024, 11:06 PM#45

by pontylad m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510095#post58510095)

Jungmit, I literally remember you posting 15 years ago the exact same "rigged" stuff as you're doing now. It raises so many questions.

But that's the thing. I'm not saying it's rigged. I'm saying maybe it's dealt in the nature that is going to keep the game more even so winners will have a smaller win rate. Maybe it's not really anything to do with bots. I'm just raising a question because this is the only site that I play that I have questions about how the cards run out. And I have played many many sites in the past and still play a lot of hands every year. This is the only one I have questions on

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2024, 2:41 AM#46

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510383#post58510383)

But that's the thing. I'm not saying it's rigged. I'm saying maybe it's dealt in the nature that is going to keep the game more even so winners will have a smaller win rate. Maybe it's not really anything to do with bots. I'm just raising a question because this is the only site that I play that I have questions about how the cards run out. And I have played many many sites in ... See full post

See I just played a session on there and every single time the board had a pair on it somebody had three of a kind. It is beyond anything that math can compute. Every single time the nuts are out there somebody has it on this site it is virtually impossible to happen. Now tomorrow I will probably have the knots every single time that happens it's just so unlikely. And I'm comparing it to other sites where I've played over a half a million hands and I just don't see it that often. I have played online virtually 355 days a year for probably the last 20 years. I'm telling you this is the only site that I question with the outcomes and the runouts of the hands. I'm not saying it's rigged but I would be willing to bet a lot of money that they are not dealing cards with any type of algorithm that any other site is using. Something is just off with this site

XenobladeRegular31 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2024, 10:58 AM#47

unless you can back this up with actual data, nobody gives a **** that you feel the rng is rigged

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2024, 11:23 AM#48

by Xenoblade m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510833#post58510833)

unless you can back this up with actual data, nobody gives a **** that you feel the rng is rigged

And even if I do back it up with actual data would you even care then?

Stu UngarMicro-Stakes Grinder11 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2024, 12:38 PM#50

Isn’t there a special place on 2 + 2 for all the online poker rigtards to post their conspiracy theories?

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2024, 4:55 PM#51

Well I don't think it's rigged. I think the main problem is bad software and not putting money into the site. Like if there is a bot problem they don't care....not sure they care about any of us and they don't care about poker

j10ofheartsNewbie1 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2024, 8:51 PM#52

How can you cry so much when you say you are winning at a 10bb/100 rate, why would you ever leave with that win rate, I cannot imagine if you were losing how much we would hear from you?

GemacoMicro-Stakes Grinder16 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 10:24 AM#53

He has been complaining about the RNG on Bodog for 15 years. Please stop engaging with him on this as it is distracting from the serious issue. People with less knowledge will lump that together with our discussion on the bot / colluder rings which discredits our concerns. No wonder support dismisses the e-mails on the colluders because they probably get dozens of e-mails a day about their RNG so anytime someone complains about the fairness of the games the first instinct is to dismiss it out of hand (and deservedly so).

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 1:38 PM#54

by Gemaco m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58511925#post58511925)

He has been complaining about the RNG on Bodog for 15 years. Please stop engaging with him on this as it is distracting from the serious issue. People with less knowledge will lump that together with our discussion on the bot / colluder rings which discredits our concerns. No wonder support dismisses the e-mails on the colluders because they probably get dozens of e-mails a d... See full post

See that is the issue. This is the only site I complain about the RNG on. All the other ones seem fine to me except this one. I have played well over 4 million hands in my lifetime and I just have a problem with the RNG on this one. This is why I bring the topic up. I understand I have a decent win rate the fact of the matter is that has nothing to do with why I'm questioning it most losing players question the RNG I'm not losing and I still question it. And currently I am on a terrible downswing on global poker right now. And I still don't question the RNG there.b and I'm just saying maybe part of the problem is just a bad dealing of cards that are creating these situation where people have a smaller win rate? See and that's the strange part to me I've been on bodog complaining for 15 years a winning player, still playing 15 years later still winning, and still have the same concerns yet it's completely dismissed as tin foil hats

XenobladeRegular31 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 1:44 PM#55

the rng on bovada isn’t different mate, stop it

whatthejishMicro-Stakes Grinder19 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 2:12 PM#56

Even if it IS different, it would still affect everyone equally. It’s a non-issue.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 2:48 PM#57

See I don't get how you can be winning for 15 years still playing now and have everything you say completely dismissed. I understand most losing players say the games are rigged but I'm not losing and I haven't been losing and I still think there's something odd about the run out of the hands. I just don't get why you wouldn't take it serious coming from a guy who's been winning for years and years. And I understand you all want to see data, you all want to see it backed up with numbers, well I don't have the numbers I'm just saying I've played pretty much every site and this is the only one I have questions about. And some of the other sites I've lost on over my sample and I still didn't have questions about how the cards were dealt. I really only had questions about how the cards were dealt on two sites ignition and the old cake poker. And I crushed the sitting goes on cake poker back in the day and I still used to send them like 25 hands a day that just seemed completely odd to me. It's just weird how this is completely dismissed coming from a guy who's been winning for a long time.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 2:52 PM#58

by whatthejish m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512062#post58512062)

Even if it IS different, it would still affect everyone equally. It’s a non-issue.

And you hit the nail on the head. Because it affects everybody equally they still call it fair. If they get labeled as Fair that in general they say well the RNG is okay because it's fair for everybody. That doesn't explain the fact that it may not be dealing 100% randomly. See that's the catchphrase in the whole thing as long as it's fair it passes the random test. It doesn't mean they're dealing 100% randomly though. I know you guys have trouble believing this but I've actually talked to multiple companies that audit the random generators of these sites. This is the stuff they told me. Like one time I asked a site during your audit if a site was dealing more aces of Kings would you find that? And their answer was you're looking at it the wrong way all we do is like if you bring your car in we turn the key to make sure the car starts and that's it. I was pretty shocked by that answer cuz it basically means they're not analyzing any of the hands that the site is dealing they get a certificate by saying yes you're random generator works and that's it. Well that leaves things open to a lot of interpretation of what actually is random. All I'm saying is sometimes when things don't seem right and when rates are going down it could be worthwhile to question just in general what a sites motive is. We know that any poker site is going to prefer that when is win at a smaller rate. Winter is a generally not good for a poker site because they take money off of the site. So if you can do something to slow down the win rates of a winning player would some sites do it? One thing I know about money you never have enough. That's always the answer people give they got plenty of money and my answer is always nobody has plenty of money, Elon musk is still trying to make money

InfiniteLand23456Micro-Stakes Grinder6 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 3:49 PM#59

Can you shut the **** up? It's just never ending word vomit at this point. Everyone gets it. You've been playing for 15 years, you've played 4 million hands and you believe the RNG is rigged on Bodog. Move on.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 3:58 PM#60

by InfiniteLand23456 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512139#post58512139)

Can you shut the **** up? It's just never ending word vomit at this point. Everyone gets it. You've been playing for 15 years, you've played 4 million hands and you believe the RNG is rigged on Bodog. Move on.

Once again I don't think it's rigged. If u want to get to bottom of things u have to consider all options.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 4:39 PM#61

Remember years go on party poker fast fold games? Some people that were winners figure out they were getting less buttons then losing players ? Well was it rigged ? Don't know. .....but u have to consider everything at this point. Imagine if they posted it and said I'm getting less buttons? I am sure the initial responses were hey take your wild rigged conspiracy theory somewhere else. Come to find out it was true they were getting less buttons

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 5:55 PM#62

by InfiniteLand23456 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512139#post58512139)

Can you shut the **** up? It's just never ending word vomit at this point. Everyone gets it. You've been playing for 15 years, you've played 4 million hands and you believe the RNG is rigged on Bodog. Move on.

And everybody understands what you're saying you're playing you think there's bots and collusion okay move on

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 5:59 PM#63

So two hands and this is what I'm saying about this site. So first hand a guy raises I three bet him with five six he then four bets me I call. The flop comes down three four Jack I bet he calls turn is an ace he checked I checked the river is a two so I make a straight he goes all in I call he has Ace King. So they got to make him hit his Ace and then I hit the straight. About five hands later I have Ace King I raise guy we raises me I call. Flop king queen 7 the guy bets I just call turn is a tool he bets again I call the river is an eight he bets again I call he has 88 so made a set on the river. How does everybody that's in the hand just magically make a hand every time? They say that chance of hitting a hand on a flop a pair of better is like 11% not on ignition poker it isn't it's about 75%. And the reason is deemed random is because it's 75% for everybody so it's technically Fair

AlanBostickRegular64 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 6:27 PM#64

Mods, please ban the rigtard.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 6:39 PM#65

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512291#post58512291)

Mods, please ban the rigtard.

U can't ban people because u don't agree with them. Free speech is u accept things u don't want to hear from people u don't want to hear it from. Any logical thinking person will consider all things when trying to figure things out. So one person has done some work and he is thinking maybe the site is not invested and those boys are colluding, could be. Let's also consider some other aspects. Sites can be greedy, maybe they are doing things to keep winners win rates down, it would not be the first time for such activity. I can't understand how some people just have 100% trust in some entity that's trying to take the most money they can from you. Like it never crosses your mind that maybe they're doing something unethical to get the money?

InfiniteLand23456Micro-Stakes Grinder6 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 6:51 PM#66

Agree with banning this ****. Thread is filled with garbage and taking away from the real issues Bodog faces. Bots and collusion.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 7:19 PM#67

by InfiniteLand23456 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512331#post58512331)

Agree with banning this ****. Thread is filled with garbage and taking away from the real issues Bodog faces. Bots and collusion.

Well that's all I'm saying how do you know it's bots and collusion? Because you're taking somebody else's word for it. I'm saying here's another point of view that maybe what I'm saying is also correct. How do you know what the other guy is telling you is correct? Because he has somewhat of Fame and he's well known? It doesn't mean he's correct on the subject. And I respect Patrick Howard, but I'm saying just because he's saying one thing doesn't mean it's 100% true. I'm saying you could say every single site has bots and collusion. I would be willing to bet that that stuff is present on every site it's just a question of how much

hunting4nemoNewbie2 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2024, 10:27 PM#68

Maybe you should consider that there's smoke where the fire is when every person in this thread thinks you're a moron. You keep derailing important discussion around tangible issues on the site affecting a lot of posters livelihoods.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 1:34 AM#69

by hunting4nemo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512574#post58512574)

Maybe you should consider that there's smoke where the fire is when every person in this thread thinks you're a moron. You keep derailing important discussion around tangible issues on the site affecting a lot of posters livelihoods.

I am not saying that bots and collusion aren't a problem, I am saying maybe there's other issues that are also the problem. Why don't we consider more than one option as the problem. I'm not trying to derail anybody I'm just saying you guys are definitely 100% sure that it's only one thing, bots. I'm not saying it's not I'm just saying maybe there is something else at play here also

bigdave2304Micro-Stakes Grinder16 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 2:07 AM#70

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512030#post58512030)

See that is the issue. This is the only site I complain about the RNG on. All the other ones seem fine to me except this one. I have played well over 4 million hands in my lifetime and I just have a problem with the RNG on this one. This is why I bring the topic up. I understand I have a decent win rate the fact of the matter is that has nothing to do with why I'm questioning i... See full post

You've never complained about a rng on any other site? I find this difficult to believe and I don't want to put words in your mouth but I feel like I have seen you complain about other sites. Were you not complaining about poker stars RNG 3-4-5 years ago?

bigdave2304Micro-Stakes Grinder16 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 2:32 AM#71

What site are you talking about in these posts? I thought it was pokerstars

Darki[Per]Micro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 8:37 AM#72

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512264#post58512264)

So two hands and this is what I'm saying about this site. So first hand a guy raises I three bet him with five six he then four bets me I call. The flop comes down three four Jack I bet he calls turn is an ace he checked I checked the river is a two so I make a straight he goes all in I call he has Ace King. So they got to make him hit his Ace and then I hit the straight. About... See full post

seriosly this is the kind of post of someone who doesn't understand variance/ who is very low skilled at poker. i think everyone in this thread have experienced long bad run streaks and this is pretty normal, you just don't understand poker and don't take responsability of how bad you play, you just blame the site rng.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 12:20 PM#73

by bigdave2304 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512777#post58512777)

You've never complained about a rng on any other site? I find this difficult to believe and I don't want to put words in your mouth but I feel like I have seen you complain about other sites. Were you not complaining about poker stars RNG 3-4-5 years ago?

I live in the USA...haven't been able to play poker stars in like what 13 years. And sure I may have complained about sites in the past, but I have serious doubts about the RNG here. All I am saying is a site could be capable of anything.

InfiniteLand23456Micro-Stakes Grinder6 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 12:30 PM#74

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58513040#post58513040)

I live in the USA...haven't been able to play poker stars in like what 13 years. And sure I may have complained about sites in the past, but I have serious doubts about the RNG here. All I am saying is a site could be capable of anything.

Got it. Bodog could be capable of anything. We could be living in the eye of a giant. Can you please for the love of god shut the **** up now?

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 12:34 PM#75

[QUOTE='Darki[Per];58512968']seriosly this is the kind of post of someone who doesn't understand variance/ who is very low skilled at poker. i think everyone in this thread have experienced long bad run streaks and this is pretty normal, you just don't understand poker and don't take responsability of how bad you play, you just blame the site rng.[/QUOTE] What I'm trying to explain to you is this is the kind of stuff that happens all the time on ignition. It's not a once in a while thing, it's not a bad run or a good one it's an all the time thing. And I understand we see a ton more hands online I'm just saying to you on another site right now I have played over 400,000 hands in the last couple of years and I just don't see it as much there not even nearly as much. On ignition it's like they always make sure two players have a good hand at the same time it seems highly unlikely to me that that would be just a random scenario. Also when I used to play hold them a ton at ignition I would compare all my whole card wins so for example the top hands like aces kings queens Jack's King all those tops hands all the way down to say pocket sevens, and my win percentage was lower at every single category on ignition than it was at any other site that I played every time I've done it. So for example say I would win 84% of the time with pocket aces on every other site on ignition poker that number would be 81%. Say Kings was 80% on ignition poker that number would be 78% Queens might be 78% and on ignition poker that number might be 75% and it was like that for all the hands. Now what would cause that? Well my theory is the most likely scenario is you're running into other people that also make big hands at the same time. I don't care if they have six five and they flop two pair or a straight it's just it doesn't happen as much on other sites so your whole card win percentage is higher with your better hands on other sites. I don't know if anybody if you have ever looked at this but this is the scenario I always find when I compare ignition to other poker sites

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 12:51 PM#76

But look I don't really want to get into the semantics of it all, I don't want to get down to name calling, I don't want to get down to you judging me, we're trying to get to the bottom of why everybody's win rate is going down on ignition poker. So let's focus on that let's not just focus on bots but let's focus on maybe there's something else going on also. Let's keep in mind what we're trying to accomplish here. We're trying to figure out what is going on so let's keep an open mind to all things possible and maybe we can come up with a solution and deal with this.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 6:34 PM#77

I mean let's look at this logically. You have a site that won't fix a bot problem, you have a site that has no license to run the site, and you have a site that has no certificate for their random number generator. This is someone you have a deep trust for that they wouldn't deal the cards in an unfair manner? Why would you have trust in this site with those three things I just listed above?

sah_24Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 7:00 PM#78

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58513378#post58513378)

I mean let's look at this logically. You have a site that won't fix a bot problem, you have a site that has no license to run the site, and you have a site that has no certificate for their random number generator. This is someone you have a deep trust for that they wouldn't deal the cards in an unfair manner? Why would you have trust in this site with those three things I just... See full post

Bc I have played on this site for about 14 years and I am better at poker than you. Sorry that you blame your lack of skill on anything but yourself but ...

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 10:11 PM#79

by sah_24 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58513410#post58513410)

Bc I have played on this site for about 14 years and I am better at poker than you. Sorry that you blame your lack of skill on anything but yourself but ...

What am I blaming on anything? We've already clarified that I have a 10 big blind per 100 win rate. This has nothing to do with winning or losing.

XenobladeRegular31 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2024, 11:06 PM#80

so the site is rigged in your favor? why are you complaining?

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 29, 2024, 3:11 PM#82

by stefanprodan m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58514307#post58514307)

I think that's around the upper end of normal, I think if a site were genuinely just having people cooler each other for stacks way more than normal it would be a lot higher

That is possible, but have u compared it to other sites? Even iff it's off by say 5% that will make a big difference over time.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 29, 2024, 3:57 PM#83

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58514250#post58514250)

For those who wish to continue to engage with jungmit, you will find many of his latest posts moved to the "Rigged" debate thread in DPS.

Ty. But maybe u should have moved them to the non-rigged thread ?

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Mar 29, 2024, 4:50 PM#84

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58514406#post58514406)

Ty. But maybe u should have moved them to the non-rigged thread ?

It's easier for those who would like to read hundreds of your similar posts if they're all in one thread. They can see the last 250 posts by you in that thread simply by searching for posts by you in it. This thread is not the place for your repetetive claims and questions, so please move back to the "Rigged" thread with them. Thanks.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 29, 2024, 4:54 PM#85

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58514471#post58514471)

It's easier for those who would like to read hundreds of your similar posts if they're all in one thread. They can see the last 250 posts by you in that thread simply by searching for posts by you in it. This thread is not the place for your repetetive claims and questions, so please move back to the "Rigged" thread with them. Thanks.

I said numerous times I don't believe it's rigged.

tarheels2222Regular48 posts
Posted Mar 29, 2024, 9:12 PM#86

What’s the other option if it’s not actually random?

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 30, 2024, 12:20 PM#87

by tarheels2222 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58514801#post58514801)

What’s the other option if it’s not actually random?

Well that is what we're trying to figure out. You have to understand that in order for a random number generator to pass the random test all it has to do is be fair. That means as long as it's fair to everybody it's going to pass the RNG test. That doesn't necessarily mean it's dealing the same way every other site is. It just means it's fair to all the players. So you might find out that your standard deviation here is more, you might find out you hit more flush drawers more straight draws more top pairs stuff like this but as long as everybody else is also hitting those then it would be deemed as Fair

XenobladeRegular31 posts
Posted Mar 30, 2024, 12:31 PM#88

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58515403#post58515403)

Well that is what we're trying to figure out. You have to understand that in order for a random number generator to pass the random test all it has to do is be fair. That means as long as it's fair to everybody it's going to pass the RNG test. That doesn't necessarily mean it's dealing the same way every other site is. It just means it's fair to all the players. So you might fi... See full post

none of this is happening

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 30, 2024, 2:50 PM#89

by blobbloblob m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58515412#post58515412)

That truth crushed my soul. :( I used to convince myself Iggy was the "safest" site from bots due to the table caps, but when you factor in that one bot operator could have 100 accounts that thought changes.

Believe it or not when they first went to anonymous tables I had many conversations with them proving to them that collusion and bought use was going to be the easiest on ignition poker due to anonymous tables. Of course they didn't listen and I wouldn't expect them to. But I prove to them that it was going to be tons of collusion and other types of cheating due to nobody having screen names. This is why I'm saying can we really trust any site that's in it to make money? Are they really going to do what's best for the players?

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 30, 2024, 3:37 PM#91

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58515573#post58515573)

I wonder why this might me?

Because contrary to what most people think nobody makes enough money. They figured they would make more money by going to anonymous tables and they weren't going to listen to anything. This is the point of the whole discussion nobody makes enough money people are always willing, and I'm not saying everybody but a lot of people are always willing to do something in a gray area that would make them more money. There is a great saying in the movie Wall Street, the guy says remember one thing money makes you do things you don't want to do. imagine in theory that you ran a poker site and it had nothing but bots on it. I mean I would be the greatest scenario for any poker site in the world all bots bashing heads nobody winning all bots losing to the rake and they played 24 hours a day 7 days a week. That would actually be better than having humans there. So it's hard sometimes to believe that they don't want the bots because the bots are generating massive amounts of rake for the sites. Like think about this for a second, the people that are developing artificial intelligence say there's a 10% to 50% chance that it will end civilization. Yet they're still developing it, why? For money. So we don't know what people are capable of doing just for money but we do know it's a lot. I mean imagine developing something that could possibly end your life and you still develop it for the money. Cuz if you don't develop it obviously somebody else will but as an entire human race nobody should be developing this stuff if it's going to end the human race. This is why I'm saying never underestimate what somebody will do for money

newguyhereShark126 posts
Posted Apr 4, 2024, 3:31 PM#92

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58521986#post58521986)

I play mostly pot limit Omaha on the site and the one thing I've noticed and got stacked to back it up because I use a tracker is like every time you got King King would say a spade flush drawer they also have aces with say a spade frustria I mean it's virtually impossible to happen as often as it happens

Sounds like you just need to exploit the site and fold anytime you have the 2nd nut flush.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 24, 2024, 9:46 PM#94

by Coin_poker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58517729#post58517729)

You cannot view HH within the client.

Any chance they're going to fix the random generator so it deals more randomly? This site has one of the worst runout rates for people to hit hands when they run underdog as any side I've ever played

ahmngrn30Micro-Stakes Grinder6 posts
Posted Apr 25, 2024, 1:43 AM#95

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58546610#post58546610)

Any chance they're going to fix the random generator so it deals more randomly? This site has one of the worst runout rates for people to hit hands when they run underdog as any side I've ever played

delete this post and print money with this information then

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 25, 2024, 12:58 PM#96

by ahmngrn30 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58546909#post58546909)

delete this post and print money with this information then

How could I print money? The site has the worst runouts, I have no idea what they're going to be ahead of time.

BoomKOdNewbie2 posts
Posted May 6, 2024, 1:00 AM#97

I live in the EU, and I believe that most of the legal or semi-legal poker is intended for the regular European players at the moment. Let's be straightforward: the EU is facing its most significant challenges in the last 50 years, much like most of the world, except for certain regions that have consistently faced difficulties without much change (Africa, certain Asian regions etc). In the EU (and the US, perhaps?), there are challenges in drafting laws that uphold democracy or address the monopolies of AI or social media companies. Just before these issues, there was the COVID-19 pandemic and a substantial increase in online activities and overall cash flow. The problems we face now weren't present or weren't as severe ten years ago. Does anyone believe that the gambling commissions on islands like Xyz have sufficient incentives to effectively regulate gamesand have suffiecent laws to do so? Can we be certain they don't have laws in place to allow owners to manipulate games in their favor, perhaps by running their own bots with a +5% equity advantage across the platform? Can anyone show me the specific laws preventing online poker rooms from engaging in such practices? Or how they could prevent bots from taking over? how do politicans have time to make such laws???? For example I played in a network where one of the rooms only could accept players from EU with the tightest regulations, sanctioning deposits and cashouts. And then on the same network, there were 5+ rooms with the exact same player base running semi legally, accepting cryptos and ****. What do the average 60-year-old politicians understand about online gambling, or how collusion operates in online poker, for example? Sure, certain aspects are legally regulated, but for anyone who has read the laws in EU countries, it's evident that the situation isn't fully under control, with issues like stability, cheating, and money laundering involved. And right now, it's not unreasonable to expect even less scrutiny on gambling companies. If there ever was a time to engage in or escalate shenanigans, it's now. With war and economic difficulties abound, recent scandals have demonstrated that companies can get away with almost anything. So why should we believe that law enforcement or other authorities are eager to pursue individuals selling information from within game integrity teams when they struggle to catch spies across the EU selling military secrets? Who catch the guys selling industry secrets to hackers and/or countries like NC. i think if anything it makes even more sense to boost shenanigans and cheating going on as all the law makers are busy with way more important things.

sah_24Regular47 posts
Posted May 6, 2024, 1:13 AM#98

by BoomKOd m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58559566#post58559566)

I live in the EU, and I believe that most of the legal or semi-legal poker is intended for the regular European players at the moment.Let's be straightforward: the EU is facing its most significant challenges in the last 50 years, much like most of the world, except for certain regions that have consistently faced difficulties without much change (Africa, certain Asian regions ... See full post

Gov't regulators do nothing to protect you, even in the West. Mike Postle was caught blatantly cheating over a massive sample size in a regulated California casino, both the regulator and the court sided with the cheater. The only person who can protect yourself is yourself ... if you don't think its legit, then don't play

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted May 7, 2024, 7:13 PM#99

by BoomKOd m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58559566#post58559566)

i think if anything it makes even more sense to boost shenanigans and cheating going on as all the law makers are busy with way more important things.

Online poker regulation has always been, and will always be, low on every government's priority list. Kind of hard to justify paying more attention to it than health care, education, violent crime, housing, and so many other issues that people elect governments to deal with. No one is voting for one person over another because they promised to clean up online gambling. Revenue is about the only thing that will make it percolate near the top, and one might argue that makes it more appealing for government to pay attention to during difficult economic times. IMO, cheating is becoming more sophisticated/prevalent for the same reason it has been for the last 20 years - as processing power increases, bots and other software cheating methods get better. And the closer games get to being solved, the more unbeatable such software becomes. But really, does it matter what the reason is? If you're not beating the games and/or don't trust them, don't play, unless they're providing you with entertainment that you can afford to pay the current price for.

iF5Newbie3 posts
Posted May 11, 2024, 6:08 AM#100

Did Monteroy, aka, Good Riggie Hunting, finally fulfill his prophecy? I heard BoBo Affleck stopped by his apartment one fateful morning to pick him up and drive to the internet cafe, and as he peered threw his window only to see an empty space. The smile was ear to ear, Bobo knew he could do it, finally fulfilling all that potential. Monty went to see about a girl. Good for you Monty, good for you In all seriousness. Where is Monteroy?

emekulateMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Jun 7, 2024, 5:16 AM#102

Guys I'm seriously having "rigged" thoughts about Ignition. I've been playing online since 2007 and have never been a "riggtard" but 5 times ive ran my ignition bankroll up to a certain figure to then be doomswitched losing every big pot over and over until my roll is close to busted. Im playing PLO btw, and I realize the swings but this just doesn't feel right after the 5th time. It's just too coincidental at this stage. Anyone else experienced anything like this?

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Jun 14, 2024, 3:21 PM#103

by emekulate m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58595770#post58595770)

Guys I'm seriously having "rigged" thoughts about Ignition. I've been playing online since 2007 and have never been a "riggtard" but 5 times ive ran my ignition bankroll up to a certain figure to then be doomswitched losing every big pot over and over until my roll is close to busted. Im playing PLO btw, and I realize the swings but this just doesn't feel right after the 5th ti... See full post

Haven't you heard Dancers to a Discordant System by Meshuggah? This is the theme song for online poker which was written in 2007 and released to the public in 2008. Do you trust some public or private entity? All it takes is a willingness to defy conscience or have no conscience present to betray your trust and exploit your security flaw which is that you TRUSTED them. Stand up from your chair right now!!! Point your finger at your computer screen and tell Ignition that you've had it with them!!! Withdraw everything (if they haven't cleaned you already) and uninstall the app. You don't know what your new hobby will be, you don't know what you'll do with all the new time you have available now, BUT IT WONT BE GIVING YOUR LIFE AND YOUR EFFORT TO PSYCHOPATH THIEVES OF ONLINE POKER. AND WHILE YOURE AT IT. If you want eternal life, good news ITS FREE AS EPHESIANS 2:8-9 SAYS. Believe on Jesus and his finished work on the cross as the payment in full for all your sin past, present and future, ask him to save you like Romans 10:9 says. Now you can cry out to God to get vengeance if you've been wronged by thieves of online poker. AND MORE, YOU CAN PRAY THAT HE WILL RESTORE TO YOU THE YEARS THAT THE LOCUSTS HAVE EATEN.

Username^^Newbie2 posts
Posted Jun 16, 2024, 11:04 AM#104

Is Jesus involved in rigging poker?

Don_Robinh0Newbie1 posts
Posted Jun 30, 2024, 11:23 AM#105

I want to post some weird in-game stats on ggpoker. After playing 100k hands on rush and cash, tournaments and spin and gold. I have played 1500 games on spin and gold with a success rate of 33.4%. Out of 1500 games, I played 10x100$ 32 times. Win 2 times, second place 3 times and 27 times 3 place. It's very interesting how I lost absolutely all hands where I dominated by 70%+. Now, overall statistics on tournaments and rush and cash S&G at all in spots. My 2 over card against a pair of 679hands - win 41%. My pair against 2 over cards 615 hands - win 39.5%. My higher pair against lower 383hand - win 74%. My lower par vs higher 355handwin - 15%. The statistics for post flop all in with a opponent flush draw are also interesting. Opponent got a flush 36% of the time. However, in cases where I had AA or KK, the opponent turned post flop all in flush draw in 63% of cases out of 211 hands. I don't want to be paranoid, but these statistics are absolutely out of the question. For example, on pokerstars, after so many hands, my statistics were +- balanced. This seems strange to me, to say the least, and I recommend recreational players to at least consider participating in a game on ggpoker.

KOFighterMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Jul 1, 2024, 7:01 AM#106

by Don_Robinh0 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58624007#post58624007)

I want to post some weird in-game stats on ggpoker. After playing 100k hands on rush and cash, tournaments and spin and gold. I have played 1500 games on spin and gold with a success rate of 33.4%. Out of 1500 games, I played 10x100$ 32 times. Win 2 times, second place 3 times and 27 times 3 place. It's very interesting how I lost absolutely all hands where I dominated by 70%+.... See full post

Has GGpoker made their code publicly available for scrutiny and testing? If a guy on the street asked you to play dice with him and had 20 of his friends around him pretending to be playing to make you trust his dice probably aren't loaded, maybe you'd play it for a while. A random streak of bad luck occurs, the likes of which, if you did the math, can be like winning a mini lottery, an anti-lottery if you will. All these other people are winning and losing, ah well, can't win em all, that's just the way she goes, right? How is GGPoker any different than the man with the loaded dice? Card RNG should be easily verifiable right? Card RNG is such a basic thing to code and should not be some secret proprietary information. "We don't have hand histories of everybody to help protect fish" HUH??? So I can't check other accounts for basic rng variance, only my own? Heh yep RNG checks out, it must be bad luck that the 80% of the time I won against other pairs with aces preflop I'm missing a huge chunk of EV. Just part of the game. These websites are FOREIGN OWNED AND DONT HAVE EVEN 1/10TH THE REGULATION THAT VEGAS CASINOS AND CARDROOMS DO. If you play on GGPoker, it is the same as playing with the friendly lookin fella with the dice game on a side walk. "Ah, he looks trustworthy, what the hell.". That's YOU WHEN YOU CLICK THE LOGIN BUTTON ON GGPOKER.

GamblingrickNewbie3 posts
Posted Jul 31, 2024, 8:28 PM#107

What are peoples thoughts on the RNG on Pokerbros? Obviously there is no clear evidence that the RNG is rigged for action but it seems that way after playing on other sites and not seeing as many crazy hands all the time. It also seems like the RNG gives you premium top 10% of hands more frequently as well. I've seen all sorts of crazy hands playing on Bros in a smaller club (non union) with mostly people i know IRL. Quads vs quads, Royal vs quads. Other crazy stuff like having the same hand on each Multi table frequently. I recently started playing on the Platform Pokernow and the RNG seems be more normal there.

Javi_asNewbie3 posts
Posted Aug 1, 2024, 12:07 PM#108

Pokerbros does not have any favor of rigging anything. I used to play here (same as other professionals) for a little while and all seems normal. For sure there is colluding / card sharing or RTA-Player, but i doubt that Pokerbros itself is rigging the RNG. They don't earn via some "fee" but the Diamonds itself, which are not connected with the Playstyle.

GamblingrickNewbie3 posts
Posted Aug 1, 2024, 6:39 PM#109

In theory they totally would because if it was rigged for action they would make more money off pots reaching cap and players busting rebuying quicker from coolers. This is because club owners must buy more chips from Pokerbros. Its not cheap and they take 5% chips back from the owners whenever they are sent to the players in the club. So you are always spending money as a club owner and the faster you do it the more money they make. Diamonds cost real money and you use them to buy the play money chips on the app

Ist Das CrazyboiMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Aug 12, 2024, 12:54 AM#110

Does anyone ever feel like the RNG is rigged for new accounts? E.g. if you're in an mtt vs someone with less than $10k in cashes, they seem to just click buttons and wind up with some backdoor nuts? Or you keep getting in AA vs their AKo and it comes KKxxx? Feel like I'm going insane I'm watching other ppl's allins too and predicting the fresh account 'whale' to win their 2-4 outer, and it's happening an insane amount of the time. I've been thinking this for a long time. Sites would be incentivised to do this - give new players a 'winning experience' they will chase once RNJesus is turned off. Other possibilities are I suck, and my ROI has flipped from +40% over 30k mtts to -30 in the past 2 years (feels unlikely as games seem so soft, esp the mistakes ppl make on bubble/ICM incl regs), or I'm in the 0.001% of bad variance (I play with primedope a LOT, even if I were BE it would be almost impossible to get my results, thus I must be a -EV player), and in both instances my ego is searching for ways to explain my extreme downturn.

XenobladeRegular31 posts
Posted Aug 12, 2024, 2:16 AM#111

the only thing you can control are your decisions, don’t worry about anything else You are probably not playing very well though if primedope says you’re not a winning player over this sample

WSPreadHeadRegular55 posts
Posted Aug 12, 2024, 8:15 PM#112

by Ist Das Crazyboi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58675977#post58675977)

Does anyone ever feel like the RNG is rigged for new accounts?E.g. if you're in an mtt vs someone with less than $10k in cashes, they seem to just click buttons and wind up with some backdoor nuts? Or you keep getting in AA vs their AKo and it comes KKxxx?Feel like I'm going insaneI'm watching other ppl's allins too and predicting the fresh account 'whale' to win their 2-4 oute... See full post

on the flipside of this, I'm a new account, and can't win a flip to save my life, much less hit a massively -EV spot LOL... I'm currently running MUCH worse on GG than any other site I play on.... if I was really a rigtard, I'd certainly think the RNG is rigged to make new players lose more to get them to re-deposit, but... variance is a true bitch! 😀

whats on the boardNewbie2 posts
Posted Aug 15, 2024, 9:16 AM#113

I legit feel like new accounts get a boss tof rsome time. When I opened my account (Iwork from home and needed something to burn time) I was winning a lot. Deposited $20 and ran it up to $150. They gave me like 3 $2.50 tickets for those all in or fold games and I won 1 and cashed in another almost daily, I think they gave me tickets for onw week. Then out of the blue I couldnt win a hand. Lost like 20 of those $2.50 all in or fold in a row and ended up back at aroun $20 and couldnt even beat the $0.50 AIOF. After that it just felt as the usual grind and normal bad beats and suckouts, but yeah, Id definitely say they pump up your numbers and chances for the first 2 weeks or so. Maybe I just got extremely lucky? Again I just wanted to waste time so I log in every now and then to play NL5, and Im ok if I make some beer money. NL5 seems extremely beatable if you play premium hands only, steal blinds and bluff every now and then. A lot of people are going all in with A8 vs AK for instance and you often see guys with 400+ BB sitting at tables.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Aug 15, 2024, 10:52 PM#114

by Gamblingrick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58664806#post58664806)

In theory they totally would because if it was rigged for action they would make more money off pots reaching cap and players busting rebuying quicker from coolers. This is because club owners must buy more chips from Pokerbros. Its not cheap and they take 5% chips back from the owners whenever they are sent to the players in the club. So you are always spending money as a club... See full post

The most likely scenario is none of the sites are rigged. They are either number one a site that just doesn't spend any money on software upgrades all security or anything like this. Or number two they're just not dealing as randomly as they let us on to believe. Now the reason they get away with this is because they say they're dealing is fair, which it probably is. But fair does not mean random. So for example you're supposed to get pocket aces once every 220 hands on average. Well if you were getting pocket aces once every 150 hands and so was everybody else then that would be fair. So any audit would pass fine because they would say one player was not benefit from this. But I asked you, is this random? by Xenoblade m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58515411#post58515411)

none of this is happening

Don't take my word for it. Go call a company called gaming associates. They did alot of audits on sites. Ask them these questions.

  1. If a site dealt more aces or kings then it should would u find that in your audit?
  2. Is a site able to change a card coming off deck ? Like say turn or river. Let us know the answers they give u. Even tho I can tell what they will be ahead of time, best u hear it for your self. by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58561663#post58561663)

Online poker regulation has always been, and will always be, low on every government's priority list. Kind of hard to justify paying more attention to it than health care, education, violent crime, housing, and so many other issues that people elect governments to deal with. No one is voting for one person over another because they promised to clean up online gambling. Revenue ... See full post

And they don't pay attention to any of that u listen above. Crime l, health care or any of it. The play attention to what can he them votes so they keep the , I am going laugh now, lmfao "job".;lol. That is all they care about. If the masses started rioting over online poker and threatening to vote for other side it would become a priority. Do nothing politicians. And I hope they stay out of it. They screw up everything anyway by emekulate m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58595770#post58595770)

Guys I'm seriously having "rigged" thoughts about Ignition. I've been playing online since 2007 and have never been a "riggtard" but 5 times ive ran my ignition bankroll up to a certain figure to then be doomswitched losing every big pot over and over until my roll is close to busted. Im playing PLO btw, and I realize the swings but this just doesn't feel right after the 5th ti... See full post

Ignition is the biggest chitbag site online. I am not a rigtard but if I did have to pick one site that could be rigged I would pick ignition.

TemppuNewbie3 posts
Posted Aug 16, 2024, 4:53 PM#115

I'm betting there is still hacked software versions. Only explanation why those 10%'s win 90% of the time on that magical GG-river.

Ist Das CrazyboiMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Aug 19, 2024, 2:00 AM#116

by Ist Das Crazyboi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58675977#post58675977)

Does anyone ever feel like the RNG is rigged for new accounts?

Here's a prime example of what I'm seeing multiple times a day:

Brand new account with $700 in cashes, trolling around, clearly a new rec, but just has 'plot armor' It feels like my opponents can literally do anything they like unpunished. Hundreds of times per day. To be clear, I am a pro with a solid wr, and I have lost a substantial amount of money since my return to GG (Nat8) The MOST common thing is flopping a set and a new player calling down randomly (or even XR spewing off on flop/turn) with underpair to hit a 1-card back-door flush. It just seems like my life now for the last few months.

PokerGuide12Newbie4 posts
Posted Aug 19, 2024, 2:35 AM#117

Yes, i can normally pick out the new accounts. I avoid them especially aipf. I like to call it the xp boost for an unknown time to really get em hooked. The only thing that worries me is when else can the xp boost be turned on.

ImePaskaaRegular81 posts
Posted Aug 19, 2024, 9:34 AM#118

So the donkeys from reddit have arrived to 2+2 and turned this thread to another rigged nonsense. Sweet. imagine being like paisting level idiot and thinking the games are rigged and still playing there just to prove a point lmfao. To be clear, I am a pro with a solid wr, and I have lost a substantial amount of money since my return to GG (Nat8)

Lol sure you are buddy.

suzyanaMicro-Stakes Grinder15 posts
Posted Aug 19, 2024, 10:27 PM#119

by ImePaskaa m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58683785#post58683785)

So the donkeys from reddit have arrived to 2+2 and turned this thread to another rigged nonsense. Sweet. imagine being like paisting level idiot and thinking the games are rigged and still playing there just to prove a point lmfao. Lol sure you are buddy.

Thank you for your contribution.Very enjoyable I am in the same situation(over 1M in prizes on stars).What i've seen on gg doesnt compare to any other site.Since i am playing poker,i did not had such bad beats over and over again,in the last year,compared with the play on stars or fulltilt in the last 12 years.If i make a top ten stack,i will either get sucked out by straight vs set, flush vs straight,full over flush or card dead for at least 50 hands. If you are a poker pro,please tell me when was the last time you had a decent stack(top 10 stack) and it happen to you the way i described? I started to save hands which are suspicious in any ways and i gathered 95 hands in the last 24 days(i played only 16days in the last 24days) Anyway,to make it simple..we can talk here and argue for as long as anybody wants,nothing will change,people will still play.I would play on stars if the site would not be close to the death.In the last scandal threads,there were a lot of players who complaing about those problems.I report alot of suspicious hands and havent got an answer till now(for ex board was A J 3 rainbow and the opponent went all in with 62 to make trips).This was in a bounty hunters main event

nootaboosMicro-Stakes Grinder20 posts
Posted Aug 19, 2024, 10:34 PM#120

Feel like some toilet regs from other sites be overestimating their skill level as well as underestimating the enormous variance involved in the massive fields on GG.

dragonriderMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Aug 20, 2024, 3:40 AM#121

by suzyana m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58684480#post58684480)

Thank you for your contribution.Very enjoyableI am in the same situation(over 1M in prizes on stars).What i've seen on gg doesnt compare to any other site.Since i am playing poker,i did not had such bad beats over and over again,in the last year,compared with the play on stars or fulltilt in the last 12 years.If i make a top ten stack,i will either get sucked out by straight vs... See full post

you should be embarrassed for writing this riggie tard nonsense

nootaboosMicro-Stakes Grinder20 posts
Posted Aug 25, 2024, 1:19 AM#122

Yeah the tinfoil hat stuff needs to stop tbh, of all the sites I’ve played - which is all of them really, GG is by far the best.

suzyanaMicro-Stakes Grinder15 posts
Posted Aug 25, 2024, 2:46 PM#123

by dragonrider m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58684772#post58684772)

you should be embarrassed for writing this riggie tard nonsense

Lol.I am embarrased of the way i was losing the entire time.One thing i dont understand is why someone else thinks that they know i played bad or fishy.Since this post was sent to riggie thread,there's no need to update with proof,no one needs this

DottMySaviourNewbie1 posts
Posted Sep 2, 2024, 3:50 AM#124

I have a genuine question and want to hear statistics experts' opinions (if there are any here). Is it possible for poker sites to generate truly random card distribution over a large sample size (that can be shown with math that it's indeed random) yet still be able to rig the distribution? I understand that RNGs are not truly random, but AFAIK, the random distribution is as good as truly random. To better understand my question, Dota 2 is a game that uses Pseudo-Random Distribution (PRD) for most of its in-game passive abilities that have a probability of triggering. How it works is that every time an ability does not trigger, the probability of it triggering on the next opportunity increases. Every time it triggers, the probability resets to a base probability. This is done with some math formulae, you can learn more at https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Random_Dis... (https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Random_Distribution#Definition). It should be possible to use math to show that PRD in Dota 2 is not truly random because there is a theoretical limit to how many times a passive ability does not trigger consecutively. E.g. an ability that has a 50% probability to trigger can never miss 4 times in a row. So, my question is, is it possible for poker sites to have a similar mechanism unbeknown to players such that math cannot show that they have such a mechanism? IMO, a valid reason for poker sites to have such a mechanism is to limit incredibly lucky or unlucky streaks for players. Whether such a mechanism is healthy is outside the topic for now.

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Sep 2, 2024, 10:31 AM#125

by DottMySaviour m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58699533#post58699533)

I have a genuine question and want to hear statistics experts' opinions (if there are any here).Is it possible for poker sites to generate truly random card distribution over a large sample size (that can be shown with math that it's indeed random) yet still be able to rig the distribution? I understand that RNGs are not truly random, but AFAIK, the random distribution is as go... See full post

Any result desired can be provided by the correct relevant programming. There are many reasons why it can be said it would be madness for a site to perhaps "kill the goose that lays a golden egg" by rigging the deal, ("Why me?"; capped rake; it's easier to ban and confiscate; bad press; etc), but reading what the site states about their RNG seems like at least a sensible starting point if a player believes including trust of the randomness of the deal is important before risking amounts of money they are not prepared to lose in following a hobby which costs most participants money in the long run. For example, PokerStars shows at https://www.pokerstars.uk/rng: "... We asked this trusted resource to perform an in-depth analysis of the randomness of the output of the RNG ... https://access.gaminglabs.com/certificat... (https://access.gaminglabs.com/certificate/index?i=188) ... FINDINGS: The random number generator produces unpredictable and statistically random sequences. ..."; whereas, for example, ACR states at https://americascardroom.eu/poker-custom... (https://americascardroom.eu/poker-customer-support/terms-and-conditions): "... 2. NO WARRANTIES BY ACR: ACR disclaims any and all warranties, expressed or implied, in connection with the Software, the Site and the Games, all of which are provided to You “AS IS”. ACR provides You with no warranty or representation whatsoever regarding the Software or Games quality, fitness for purpose, completeness or accuracy. ..."

pokerArgentina94Micro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Oct 7, 2024, 4:38 PM#126

Definitely seems rigged for new accounts, playing for months alot of mtts and the pattern is the same, is not variance, just cant win against bad new players shoving any two, generally they have no stats on spins or mystery royales and are from china/vietnam/russia, allways hitting the magic 5% river. i marked and start avoiding these accounts and the badbeats lowered alot, literally months lossing against 5% so is not just variance, just this specific new players (or maybe house bots), but sometimes is unavoidable with premium hands to not play vs them

TookashotatChanMicro-Stakes Grinder12 posts
Posted Oct 7, 2024, 5:53 PM#127

by Ist Das Crazyboi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58683549#post58683549)

Here's a prime example of what I'm seeing multiple times a day: Brand new account with $700 in cashes, trolling around, clearly a new rec, but just has 'plot armor'It feels like my opponents can literally do anything they like unpunished. Hundreds of times per day.To be clear, I am a pro with a solid wr, and I have lost a substantial amount of money since my return to GG (Na... See full post

This happens on Global Poker too. A lot.

pokerArgentina94Micro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Oct 7, 2024, 9:52 PM#128

Everiday i play on gg im more convinced they "RNG" is bullshit, with todays tecnology i imagine is not hard to rigg the games in favor of new or very bad players, just a simple script attached and asigned to low vpip players to get punished with badbeats and viceversa, if i can imagine this sistem without any deep knoledge on programing, imagine what they can do to rigg the rng to benefit recs, also house botting could be possible, bots in general we know are plenty in every room, superusers etc etc etc, but my intuiton tells me the worst handicapp to good players would be the rng rigg

SightwinnerNewbie2 posts
Posted Oct 8, 2024, 9:51 AM#129

Me [AI Guy | Math Guy | Former Semi Pro | Current Fish | Play on GG] Last week, in 7 sessions, I ran 17,000 bb below EV. Had to take a break. Human is wired to recognize patterns - even when there is none.

I was convinced the game was fair when I was winning

I was convinced the game was rigged when I became a fish. -EV in game, roughly +1bb/100 after rakeback I would start most sessions with negative 2-3 buy ins. GG wants me to play longer! So I recorded all my play for a month - turns out nope, that wasn't actually the case - even though it felt that way while I was recording. Also starting taking systemic steps to improve my game since August, and don't see / feel the "GG is out to get me vibe" anymore.

Can poker room rig the game? Easily. The regulation / integrity check is easy to get around. Remember Volkswagen? They simply submit false report. Poker room can just as easily submit false codes | connect different servers for integrity check team etc etc.

Why wouldn't poker room rig the game? If it's desperate enough for short term game. Sure. But rigging it for "action flop" | "fish plot armor" is just dumb. Poker room maximize profits when the edge for better players becomes minimal. You can easily do that with bonus / rakeback without having to do something that can be easily detected by mass data analysis (e.g. statname can easily detect any irregularity from expectation if they wanted to).

TookashotatChanMicro-Stakes Grinder12 posts
Posted Oct 10, 2024, 4:42 AM#130

by Sightwinner m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58744422#post58744422)

Me [AI Guy | Math Guy | Former Semi Pro | Current Fish | Play on GG] Last week, in 7 sessions, I ran 17,000 bb below EV. Had to take a break. Human is wired to recognize patterns - even when there is none.

I was convinced the game was fair when I was winning

I was convinced the game was rigged when I became a fish. -EV in game, roughly +1bb/100 after rakeback I would start most sessions with negative 2-3 buy ins. GG wants me to play longer! So I recorded all my play for a month - turns out nope, that wasn't actually the case - even though it felt that way while I was recording. Also starting taking systemic steps to improve my game since August, and don't see / feel the "GG is out to get me vibe" anymore.

Can poker room rig the game? Easily. The regulation / integrity check is easy to get around. Remember Volkswagen? They simply submit false report. Poker room can just as easily submit false codes | connect different servers for integrity check team etc etc.

Why wouldn't poker room rig the game? If it's desperate enough for short term game. Sure. But rigging it for "action flop" | "fish plot armor" is just dumb. Poker room maximize profits when the edge for better players becomes minimal. You can easily do that with bonus / rakeback without having to do something that can be easily detected by mass data analysis (e.g. statname can easily detect any irregularity from expectation if they wanted to).

You ran 170 buyins below ev? I'm willing to bet my mother's retirement savings, you didn't.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Oct 10, 2024, 11:09 AM#131

i unfortunately had a point where i was 170 buyins under ev, took me 12 years now some kid shows up and does it in 7 sessions... im getting old

SightwinnerNewbie2 posts
Posted Oct 10, 2024, 6:54 PM#132

you bet correctly. i meant 1700 bb. still 17 buy ins within basically 3 days was quite traumatic =T. especially I'd always used GG's cash out EV in 300bb+ pots and the week's goal was to stop giving away that EV. Promptly GG punish me with -1700 below EV =(. Will try again in the coming weeks [went back to using the function to keep my mind sane]

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Oct 11, 2024, 7:25 AM#133

by TookashotatChan m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58746717#post58746717)

You ran 170 buyins below ev? I'm willing to bet my mother's retirement savings, you didn't.

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58746841#post58746841)

i unfortunately had a point where i was 170 buyins under ev, took me 12 years now some kid shows up and does it in 7 sessions... im getting old

I mean it really depends how deep they play. I once lost a 2k bb point in omaha when some ******* rivered bigger quads on me.

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 10:22 AM#134

GG Poker is Destroying the Poker Industry As the largest poker platform in the world, it is fundamentally unfair. Can you imagine the extent of this disaster? This is not a complaint; it is a fact. GG Poker already has the highest rake in the world, and its dealing is not based on normal random probabilities. Initially, it was uncertain whether GG's probabilities were normal , but ever since GG canceled third-party oversight about two years ago, there has been no regulatory body monitoring it. No institution ensures that it deals cards randomly according to the correct probabilities. After playing millions of hands, I can clearly feel the unfairness in the dealing and can summarize some general patterns (Of course, GG won't make the probabilities one hundred percent, as that would be too obvious and could lead to its downfall). Here are some points for everyone to observe and verify: 1: The insurance mechanisms on GG differ by country, which is the most evident proof of GG's unfair dealing. When you go all-in against an opponent and either you or they are ahead, the player in the lead can purchase insurance.,if the insurance purchased is very high, the probability of the trailing player hitting their outs becomes significantly higher. Even if their winning chance is only around 10%, they are still very likely to hit. You can observe this situation at the tables; it seems that GG hasn't configured the program correctly. 2: When you have an overpair and go all-in against someone with a single pair, if you agree to run it twice, the probability of splitting the pot is significantly higher than normal. You will often see splits; normally, you would have around a 75% chance of winning, but it's common to see both players split the pot. Similar situations occur when the opponent is on a draw and you go all-in, resulting in excessive splits.GG's intention in doing this is to encourage you to purchase insurance; they don't want to see situations where they only earn a small amount in rake, even though they already have the highest rake in the world. 3: This is still about the insurance issue. When you go all-in on the flop and are ahead against an opponent holding AX with two high cards, if you don't purchase insurance, it's very likely that the turn will hit their outs, especially an Ace. In many cases, if you don’t buy insurance and run it just once, it’s even more likely that their cards will come out, because not purchasing insurance is not favored by GG. 4: When you have been winning for several consecutive days, GG will recognize this and often deal you various unfavorable hands that make it hard to escape and lead to losses. Experiencing consecutive bad beats and large hands clashing can throw off your mindset and make you feel frustrated. This is a common tactic of the GG system; dealing unfavorable hands is a significant characteristic of GG, and it certainly does not align with normal probabilities. The frequency of this happening is much higher than on fair platforms like PokerStars. GG only makes more money from rake when big pots are created, and it is already the platform with the highest rake in the world. 5: GG Poker has introduced a feature called Poker Bunny that allows you to see your cards after folding. This feature is purely a tactic to entice players to enter the pot and has no meaningful benefit to the players.Every time you were originally in the pot, but then you fold and open Bunny, you almost always see yourself hitting a hand, which happens at an incredibly high rate (of course, it can't be 100%, as GG isn't that foolish, but you can observe the probabilities). However, when you enter the pot yourself, your hitting rate is significantly lower than what you see with Bunny. GG's intention behind this is to lure you into the pot to increase their revenue, which can be described as despicable and shameless. 6: GG's dealing is heavily manipulated, especially at fast tables, where there are numerous instances of big hands clashing and bets frequently reversing. This is all aimed at creating larger pots, which is particularly frustrating. 7: Additionally, it seems that only Chinese mainland players are allowed to purchase insurance after going all-in, while players from other countries see a cashout button, similar to PokerStars. When Chinese players do not buy insurance, their probability of experiencing bad beats increases significantly. It appears that GG treats Chinese players as if they were fools, showing a degree of discrimination against them. Additionally, the situations mentioned above are not the same as the old saying about "only remembering losses and not wins." I have observed similar results with other players as well, and everyone can take some time to observe this for themselves. More importantly, this probability is not equal; the game will adjust your likelihood of losing based on your previous win rate to balance your wins and losses. You can win, but not too much. GG Poker has become increasingly manipulative, and anyone who plays should be able to see various unfavorable hands and frequent badbeats happening far more often than normal probabilities would suggest. Why can GG act so brazenly? Because they have effective advertising and are currently the largest platform in the world with no regulatory oversight. Poker is also considered a gray area; as long as their dealing probabilities are not at 100%, you can't accuse them of cheating. They can simply claim it's a matter of probability, and you have no way to verify it. If this continues, GG will harm the poker industry, leading to very negative sentiments toward the game and affecting players' lives. I hope all poker players can unite to either force GG out or make it truly fair! My English is not very good, so all the content was translated using AI and modified a bit. I hope everyone can understand and grasp the general idea. Wish everyone good luck!!! Here are some images for reference. I apologize for the messiness!

Spoiler Show

Djerevan2Newbie2 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 10:31 AM#135

Good stuff . I talked with a person who worked in high-position in this industry and he said that he is convinced that most other sites have taken similar actions with their dealing "randomness" , basically favoring fish and weaker regs to keep their games running at highest occupancy rate in all stake levels. Personally I don't feel like I have similar fair changes playing these sites as when playing apps or live-poker. My recent 1M hands at those sites sample supports this theory (180 buy-ins below EV).

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 10:38 AM#136

This is the original Chinese text.

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 10:45 AM#137

by Djerevan2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58766461#post58766461)

Good stuff . I talked with a person who worked in high-position in this industry and he said that he is convinced that most other sites have taken similar actions with their dealing "randomness" , basically favoring fish and weaker regs to keep their games running at highest occupancy rate in all stake levels. Personally I don't feel like I have similar fair changes playing the... See full post

Thank you for sharing. GG is really disgusting in this regard, and it's particularly obvious, relying heavily on its strong backing.

KebabkungenMicro-Stakes Grinder16 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 10:50 AM#138

GG Poker is done for after OP'sp proof of rigging

BlackJackDegenNewbie4 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 10:59 AM#139

Dude can you change the font to a normal colour so people don't need sunglasses to read your post? Is this part true? but ever since GG canceled third-party oversight about two years ago, there has been no regulatory body monitoring it. No institution ensures that it deals cards randomly according to the correct probabilities.

I seen someone asking the same question a while back in the GG thread and they never got a response.

by PartyScout m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58744815#post58744815)

Hello, can someone tell me about the RNG method on GG?I checked the website details and found a test certificate for a testing period back in 2021. Nothing since. I may be wrong but i thought a requirement for annual testing is required to operate in the UK Gaming market?https://ggpoker.co.uk/random-number-gene... (https://ggpoker.co.uk/random-number-generator/)If this fine and common pratice these days i'd be fairly conce... See full post

Djerevan2Newbie2 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 12:03 PM#141

I think there is no reason to think they would not be corrupt just as much as everything else in this world. Those companies that run poker make way more money from the slots why would they not "optimize" their poker? ipoker, party, wpn and ignition are the not yet dark side sites , others use tools to simply control whose going to win and how much - with party and ipoker they have a bot issue though and quite a few guys who are insider superusers . i cant go too deep into this bcz i have a source i need to protect. but online poker is (since GG took over) something very different players think it is. Its really scary. Basically methology is similar as with sportsbetting - (when winning player wants to bet big on most bookers they cut him off and put him to be capped to be able to bet very small) In poker it would just be scandalous to directly say "your not allowed to play your winning player" which is why they adjust how you will perform vs the field. All these mblmb labs etc. is just bought bullshit to protect the business.

BlackJackDegenNewbie4 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 12:42 PM#142

by Djerevan2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58766493#post58766493)

I think there is no reason to think they would not be corrupt just as much as everything else in this world. Those companies that run poker make way more money from the slots why would they not "optimize" their poker?

This has been argued since the inception of online poker. It usually comes down to the most obvious conclusion, that from the operators perspective that it makes no sense to cheat the game. You already have a money tree running fair games so why would you put that business in jeopardy. The counter is that we have seen a number of examples over the years in poker where greed is more powerful than rationality. I'm more curious as to why GG wouldn't be doing the bare basics of having the certificate up to date for the site. I'd say its more an oversight on not having it uploaded online as I think it would put them in big trouble with the regulators in some of the markets they offer games.

YouNeverKnow12Newbie1 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 1:25 PM#143

It appears that you have some concerns regarding GGPoker, particularly about its reputation and the issue of bots on the platform. However, it's crucial to focus on facts to ensure credibility when sharing information. To address the first point: the "rabbit hunt" feature on GGPoker is not fraudulent. You can easily test this with a friend in a "Rush and Cash" game mode. If both of you are in the same hand and, for example, both fold on the flop and then activate the rabbit hunt feature, you’ll see that the same cards are displayed to both players. This demonstrates that the rabbit hunt feature does not reveal only the cards that would be beneficial to a player, but rather the cards are displayed consistently and fairly for all players involved.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Oct 27, 2024, 1:27 PM#144

seeing a screenshot of AK beating AQ seals it for me... online poker is rigged!

TookashotatChanMicro-Stakes Grinder12 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 5:48 AM#145

180 buyins under ev is the kind of terrible variance you'd expect to see in 25bb Jackpots, not 100bb cash games. This could be collusion

Polarbear1955Regular31 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 6:15 AM#146

by YouNeverKnow12 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58766544#post58766544)

It appears that you have some concerns regarding GGPoker, particularly about its reputation and the issue of bots on the platform. However, it's crucial to focus on facts to ensure credibility when sharing information.To address the first point: the "rabbit hunt" feature on GGPoker is not fraudulent. You can easily test this with a friend in a "Rush and Cash" game mode. If both... See full post

This does not prove what you claim it proves. It does prove that they do not send different to different players. It does not prove they do not adjust the the hand to create the effect.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 12:07 PM#147

by TookashotatChan m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58769209#post58769209)

180 buyins under ev is the kind of terrible variance you'd expect to see in 25bb Jackpots, not 100bb cash games. This could be collusion

actually with a true wr of 4,2 there is a 7% chance of running below 2,4bb/100 with a std.dev of 120 which is normal for not-nits in 6max in nlhe its unlucky but nowhere near impossible, people still underestimate variance so so much

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 5:06 PM#148

by BlackJackDegen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58766470#post58766470)

Dude can you change the font to a normal colour so people don't need sunglasses to read your post? Is this part true? I seen someone asking the same question a while back in the GG thread and they never got a response.

Yes, it's true. GG has no regulatory authorities overseeing it.

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 5:16 PM#149

by YouNeverKnow12 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58766544#post58766544)

It appears that you have some concerns regarding GGPoker, particularly about its reputation and the issue of bots on the platform. However, it's crucial to focus on facts to ensure credibility when sharing information.To address the first point: the "rabbit hunt" feature on GGPoker is not fraudulent. You can easily test this with a friend in a "Rush and Cash" game mode. If both... See full post

Bro, it’s true that everyone sees the same cards; otherwise, people would easily spot the cheating. However, as I mentioned earlier, when you participate in a pot and then fold, GG's programming is designed to display the cards based on that. We can think about this more deeply: people participate and then fold, and this is what drives your desire to play. You can observe this by playing GG yourself. I've played millions of hands on GG and have been observing for a long time. If you pay close attention while playing, you'll notice that the rate of hitting the board after entering the pot is completely different from the rate of hitting after folding and then activating the rabbit hunt feature.

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 5:21 PM#150

by BlackJackDegen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58766514#post58766514)

This has been argued since the inception of online poker. It usually comes down to the most obvious conclusion, that from the operators perspective that it makes no sense to cheat the game. You already have a money tree running fair games so why would you put that business in jeopardy. The counter is that we have seen a number of examples over the years in poker where greed is... See full post

Bro, it’s because GG is particularly greedy. They do great advertising and have a large market. They can let you win, but they won’t let you win too much, or else recreational players will leave. They also make the games very intense, exploiting human weaknesses. As long as the pots are big and people play more, their rake will increase. Plus, their backend dealing is unregulated, so there’s no evidence, and they won’t be in a disadvantaged position.

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 5:27 PM#151

by Djerevan2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58766493#post58766493)

I think there is no reason to think they would not be corrupt just as much as everything else in this world.Those companies that run poker make way more money from the slots why would they not "optimize" their poker?ipoker, party, wpn and ignition are the not yet dark side sites , others use tools to simply control whose going to win and how much - with party and ipoker they ha... See full post

You got it ,Bro

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 5:34 PM#153

The evidence of GG cheating is that when others buy a lot of insurance, the opponent's outs always seem to appear, and the probabilities are absurdly high. Anyone can see this just by observing.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Oct 29, 2024, 10:48 PM#154

variance

DobeyMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Oct 31, 2024, 6:56 AM#155

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58770177#post58770177)

variance

No, this is not it; this has changed the probabilities without properly adjusting the programming. You can clearly observe the card distribution when others purchase high-stakes insurance—it's a very obvious error. I played over a million hands on PokerStars, and GG has also played over a million hands, but the card distribution probabilities are completely different. GG was relatively normal a couple of years ago, but after that, without regulation, it changed.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Oct 31, 2024, 6:02 PM#156

you shouldnt be playing poker

OKFPNewbie4 posts
Posted Nov 21, 2024, 1:38 PM#157

Its rigged against frequent depositors and in a much more in depth and complex way that people can begin to comprehend. Most just think that the RNG or algorithm is manipulated, I am convinced that it goes far deeper than that. We all have to remember that these companies just like real world casinos have utilized technology to their advantage for decades now. I spent my entire existence in technology and I have a good idea of what they are doing - remember that they have the house edge because they have all of our data available at their disposal. Anyone that hasn't contemplated this possibility is either clueless or just naive. Facebook was doing it, Google does it openly, every company is about profiling individuals with data. Poker Rooms probably even know how much money you have in your bank account if you are in Canada and interact e-transfer. If you are on ACR, and used Crypto, they know your balance as well. Nevertheless, I have Stars data for cash and tournaments dating back to 2009. I have GG Poker Data pre-Ontario merge as well. Its about siphoning as much money from the non-regs as possible - keeping the money flowing into the system. Profiling people, your stats, your tendencies, and compute all that real-time and control outcomes. Tournaments are pre-determined as well. I am sure that it goes something like when you enter a tournament, a bunch of data is computed for all the players, and then manipulate with close accuracy who will end up in the money and in which position. The only aspect that they cannot control are your actions, but again with the in-depth data that they have on you, they know your playstyle and it makes it even easier to make certain setups - or if all fails, they'll just create a no brainer setup like AK vs. XX and put the card that dictates the outcome. I am shocked that for over a decade people bash individuals that claim that Online Poker is rigged - its so easy from a technological perspective. They've scammed Crypto, Enron, Full Tilt, and so much more, yet people still remain oblivious. Start looking into how slot machines are programmed in real casinos and you will begin to understand how infinitely advanced technology is when it comes to software. Poker Software super easy to rig with near impossible level of detection. Then they bank on the fact that most casual players that have kept the eco system going are either going to move on to something else - and a new sucker will take their place, and the circle continues. The only winners are people that generate a massive amount of rake, who are OG and built a balance on the popular sites years ago, or that depo a serious amount of money and generate rake. I know some of the biggest crushers, and its simple. They built their balance, or depo'd a lot, suffered through the site trying to initially scam them, and then the site realizes that they can't do much to them because they are clearly winning players and have large bankrolls and generate tons of rake - so the sites starts favoring them by letting them hit here and there, so that they slowly accumulate winnings. Once in a while they have to make them run bad to redistribute hope to the casual players, etc... For years people had it all wrong, and they would claim variance, sample size etc... The only way to definitely prove that Online Poker Rooms are profiling and rigging the games would be to have a methodical data collection exercise, where you would examine several factors that people have overlooked in this great debate since its inception:

  • Player Type (Casual, Reg, Bankroll)
  • Are they playing in a risk of ruin situation (easier for the sites to let them win a bit then make them go bust and have them redeposit)
  • Frequency of deposits and amounts played (for example if a player deposits a couple hundreds every week) then plays $50T vs. $1T algo has to adjust
  • Hand History Data (Correlate all that information together and see patterns) you would not even need large sample sizes - pretty sure it would just be blatantly obvious For example run standard deviation on 100, or 1000 random people with all the factors above and if the same patterns emerge there's your sample size. Some math geniuses can surely figure out what the probability of having on say X sample size - a certain group of people / profiles vs. another get screwed the same way over and over again. You can only win Online if you depo tons of $ and make it your life. Oh and leave the majority of the money on the sites :P Almost forgot that part, cashout curses are not a thing, its just controlled. Sites do not like people taking money out!
JosemMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Nov 22, 2024, 10:37 AM#158

this sort of fever dream of nonsense garbage by OKFP is a reflection on OKFP, not a reflection of the real world

OKFPNewbie4 posts
Posted Nov 23, 2024, 5:16 PM#159

by Josem m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58801692#post58801692)

this sort of fever dream of nonsense garbage by OKFP is a reflection on OKFP, not a reflection of the real world

Calling it a 'fever dream of nonsense garbage' doesn’t address the core of the argument or even attempt to refute it with substance. If you think the ideas presented lack merit, feel free to engage with the specifics and present counterpoints grounded in logic or evidence. The reality is that technology has advanced significantly, and the possibility of systems leveraging user data for profit is not far-fetched—it’s a reality in many industries. Dismissing it outright without meaningful discussion might work if you’re aiming to win over people with a low IQ, but those capable of critical thinking expect more. Honestly, you sound like the type of person who denied global warming 20 years ago—and probably still believes it isn’t real. Let's debate ideas, not resort to ad hominem.

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Nov 25, 2024, 10:46 AM#160

Obviously the poker rooms and casino collect data. obviously they use it to maximise profits. I have actually worked in roles where this was one of my main tasks. We obviously didn’t rig anything though. We targeted specifics players with specific promotions. What exactly do you think how slot machines work by the way? As I am kind of an expert on slots and I am pretty sure you are under some faulty assumptions.

JosemMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Nov 25, 2024, 6:31 PM#161

by OKFP m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58802818#post58802818)

the core of the argument or even attempt to refute it with substance.

You provided no substance; why do we owe you any? Your shrill crap is deeply demeaning to those of us who actually provided evidence of cheating, and earned millions of dollars of refunds for the victims cheating in online poker. The way that you cry wolf is deeply harmful to those of us who have a track record of actually catching wolves - because your vomit of nonsense causes people to come to ignore genuine evidence and genuine data. False alarms like yours mean that actual alarms work less well, as people become used to ignoring them. You are imposing a harm on others, with no awareness, because you have no idea of what you're dribbling onto the internet. Your contribution here is nothing more than a false car alarm: it is harmful to genuine victims, and it is irritating to others who have the misfortune of hearing your shrill noises of nonsense.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Nov 26, 2024, 6:10 AM#162

by OKFP m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58800679#post58800679)

Poker Rooms probably even know how much money you have in your bank account if you are in Canada and interact e-transfer.

LOL. by OKFP m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58800679#post58800679)

I am shocked that for over a decade people bash individuals that claim that Online Poker is rigged

I see. Are you aware that pretty much all of those individuals are claiming the opposite of you? They believe online poke is rigged in favour of non-regs/non-winning players. Are you still shocked that people don't agree with them, when you don't agree with them either? by OKFP m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58800679#post58800679)

Start looking into how slot machines are programmed in real casinos and you will begin to understand how infinitely advanced technology is when it comes to software.

LOL, WTF are you talking about? What sort of "infinitely advanced technology" do you think is required to create a game whose rules favour the house? There is zero technology involved. You simply take a roulette wheel and set rules that pay out players at 36-1 for a bet that is actually 38-1. Or a craps table and some dice and set rules that pay players out at lower odds than the probability of the outcomes they can bet on. Or take a slot machine and set rules that pay out each outcome at lower odds than probability dictates they should be expected to come up at. Making them digital doesn't change anything with regard to the basics behind how the casino makes money. This isn't rocket surgery, man.

Polarbear1955Regular31 posts
Posted Nov 26, 2024, 9:20 AM#163

by Josem m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58805039#post58805039)

You provided no substance; why do we owe you any?Your shrill crap is deeply demeaning to those of us who actually provided evidence of cheating, and earned millions of dollars of refunds for the victims cheating in online poker. The way that you cry wolf is deeply harmful to those of us who have a track record of actually catching wolves - because your vomit of nonsense causes ... See full post

Curious. Do you believe you can catch a poker site that was willing to limit their cheating to one hand per hundred for only 1% of their players? If no then you are saying you can only catch greedy or stupid cheaters. If yes I think you are delusional.

JosemMicro-Stakes Grinder10 posts
Posted Nov 26, 2024, 9:52 AM#164

by Polarbear1955 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58805856#post58805856)

Curious. Do you believe you can catch a poker site that was willing to limit their cheating to one hand per hundred for only 1% of their players? If no then you are saying you can only catch greedy or stupid cheaters. If yes I think you are delusional.

I'm saying that I have played a key role in obtaining millions of dollars for victims of cheating in online poker by providing evidence of cheating in poker.

Polarbear1955Regular31 posts
Posted Nov 27, 2024, 8:40 AM#165

by Josem m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58805877#post58805877)

I'm saying that I have played a key role in obtaining millions of dollars for victims of cheating in online poker by providing evidence of cheating in poker.

By refusing to answer my question you show you know you can only detect greedy or stupid cheaters. That a simple non greedy cheating in a limited enough number of hands is beyond your ability to prove. Shame you lack the honesty to admit the truth.

OKFPNewbie4 posts
Posted Nov 27, 2024, 11:13 PM#166

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58804761#post58804761)

Obviously the poker rooms and casino collect data. obviously they use it to maximise profits. I have actually worked in roles where this was one of my main tasks.We obviously didn’t rig anything though. We targeted specifics players with specific promotions. What exactly do you think how slot machines work by the way? As I am kind of an expert on slots and I am pretty sure you ... See full post

Slot machines are a prime example of how advanced technology is developed with a singular goal: to keep players spinning and spending. Psychological Exploitation: Slot machines aren’t just random; they’re designed around research into behavioral psychology, particularly variable reinforcement schedules. This is the same principle that makes social media so addictive—small, intermittent rewards keep you coming back for more. Near misses are a prime example of this in action: the system can create the feeling of "almost winning," which triggers the same dopamine response as a real win. Massive R&D Investment: The software engineering behind modern slot machines is insanely complex. Take virtual reels, for example. The physical reels we see are just for show—underneath, the software runs virtual reels with thousands of positions per reel. These virtual positions are often weighted to make high-value symbols appear less frequently, which helps control payout rates and create those tantalizing near-miss scenarios. It’s not just about generating random outcomes; it’s about engineering an experience that maximizes engagement and profitability. Data-Driven Profitability: Casinos and developers don’t just rely on static designs—they use data. Machines can analyze player behavior in real-time to refine everything from bonus frequencies to gameplay elements that encourage longer sessions. The level of optimization here is staggering, rivaling the gaming industry in terms of complexity and investment. When you break it down, slot machines are more than just games. They’re highly engineered systems built to exploit psychological triggers, supported by deep R&D and real-time analytics, all with one goal: to keep players engaged and the profits flowing. by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58805781#post58805781)

LOL.I see. Are you aware that pretty much all of those individuals are claiming the opposite of you? They believe online poke is rigged in favour of non-regs/non-winning players. Are you still shocked that people don't agree with them, when you don't agree with them either?LOL, WTF are you talking about? What sort of "infinitely advanced technology" do you think is required to ... See full post

LOL, it’s pretty clear you don’t have much understanding of software engineering or the complexities behind modern online gaming platforms, especially when it comes to online poker. Let me break it down for you: You’re conflating basic probability in casino games (like roulette and craps) with the highly advanced software systems that power online poker platforms and modern slot machines. These are two entirely different beasts, and dismissing the technology as “zero effort” shows a lack of understanding of what’s actually going on under the hood. Your dismissal also shows a misunderstanding of how advanced technology could be misused, even though regulated platforms operate under strict legal frameworks. The complexity of the software theoretically allows for manipulation—e.g., altering card distributions against certain players or using dynamic profiling to adjust outcomes. The fact that you think this requires no advanced technology shows you haven’t considered how these systems actually work. When you say, “making them digital doesn’t change anything,” that’s just flat-out wrong. The digitization of these games introduces massive layers of complexity, and that’s exactly the problem—it creates opportunities for platforms to potentially manipulate outcomes behind the scenes. Unlike physical roulette or craps, where you can see and interact with the mechanics, the software running these platforms operates as a black box, making it impossible for players to verify that games are fair or truly random. Ignoring this complexity only shows a lack of understanding of how such systems could be rigged to exploit players without their knowledge. So yeah, let’s not downplay the insane level of engineering, mathematics, and data science that goes into these platforms. This is far closer to "rocket science" than you’re giving it credit for. If you want to dismiss it, at least learn a little bit about what’s actually happening behind the scenes. by Josem m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58805039#post58805039)

You provided no substance; why do we owe you any?Your shrill crap is deeply demeaning to those of us who actually provided evidence of cheating, and earned millions of dollars of refunds for the victims cheating in online poker. The way that you cry wolf is deeply harmful to those of us who have a track record of actually catching wolves - because your vomit of nonsense causes ... See full post

You clearly don’t understand the point I’m making, so let me spell it out. The existence of confirmed cheating cases in online poker only strengthens my argument—those cases happened because the platforms are digital, complex, and opaque, creating an environment where manipulation is possible. That’s the very issue I’m raising. Instead of addressing the core concern—that online platforms have the potential to manipulate outcomes—you’ve decided to attack me personally with empty rhetoric. If you’ve “earned millions of dollars of refunds” for victims, then great, but it doesn’t make you the sole arbiter of what constitutes valid criticism. Raising questions about potential abuses in systems as complex as these isn’t “crying wolf.” It’s called skepticism, and skepticism is what prevents more victims. Ironically, your response is far more harmful to genuine discussion. Instead of engaging in thoughtful debate or addressing the systemic issues I’ve highlighted, you’ve resorted to self-congratulation and name-calling. That approach doesn’t help victims; it just shuts down dialogue and prevents people from asking tough questions. If you have evidence to support your dismissal of my concerns, provide it. Otherwise, spare me the performative outrage and engage with the points raised.

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Nov 28, 2024, 10:16 AM#167

by Polarbear1955 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58806808#post58806808)

By refusing to answer my question you show you know you can only detect greedy or stupid cheaters. That a simple non greedy cheating in a limited enough number of hands is beyond your ability to prove. Shame you lack the honesty to admit the truth.

Yes of course it cant be proven that there hasn't ever been a single hand manipulated. You are pretty much asking to prove a negative. We can say with very high certainty though that there hasn't been any manipulation over a meaningful sample. But if something doesn't have a detectable impact it also has a barely detectable impact at best. so what would be the point of an exploit that barely has an impact on your bottom line? by OKFP m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58807540#post58807540)

Slot machines are a prime example of how advanced technology is developed with a singular goal: to keep players spinning and spending.Psychological Exploitation:Slot machines aren’t just random; they’re designed around research into behavioral psychology, particularly variable reinforcement schedules. This is the same principle that makes social media so addictive—small, interm... See full post

You first point is correct. Thats exactly the way slots are designed. The second point is not entirely correct but still has some merit. it is clear though that you dont quite understand whats actually going on. Its baffling how you realised that the reels shown are just a visualisation for entertainment purposes yet you think that the "hidden reels" or the way they are constructed have anything to do with the near misses. The near misses didnt actually happen. You get that right? the "hidden reals have nothing to do with this. The software behind slots is not massively complicated. Its not rocket science by a long shot. When you say symbols are weighted you seem to believe that there is some weird process that makes some symbols appear more often than others. There is of course its called frequency. its about the frequency of symbols high value symbols appear less frequently on the reel also nothing mysterious about that. The third part is mostly nonsense. The machines arent doing anything in real time. Player data of course is collected and looked into by the game providers and operators. But nothing is adapted on the fly.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Nov 28, 2024, 1:02 PM#168

never compare real poker to slot machines

OKFPNewbie4 posts
Posted Nov 28, 2024, 5:44 PM#169

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58807922#post58807922)

Yes of course it cant be proven that there hasn't ever been a single hand manipulated. You are pretty much asking to prove a negative. We can say with very high certainty though that there hasn't been any manipulation over a meaningful sample. But if something doesn't have a detectable impact it also has a barely detectable impact at best. so what would be the point of an explo... See full post

Not on the fly. Casinos and developers don’t just rely on static designs—they use data. Machines can analyze player behavior in real-time to refine everything from bonus frequencies to gameplay elements that encourage longer sessions. The level of optimization here is staggering, rivaling the gaming industry in terms of complexity and investment. Data is analyzed in real-time, collected - and various parameters of slot machines is adjusted - for example RTP can be adjusted remotely in some jurisdictions after X amount of time of a machine not having activity. by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58807922#post58807922)

Yes of course it cant be proven that there hasn't ever been a single hand manipulated. You are pretty much asking to prove a negative. We can say with very high certainty though that there hasn't been any manipulation over a meaningful sample. But if something doesn't have a detectable impact it also has a barely detectable impact at best. so what would be the point of an explo... See full post

How can you claim "very high certainty" when the concept of a "meaningful sample" is inherently subjective? What exactly defines a meaningful sample in this context? If it's based on aggregate data, wouldn't that data primarily represent players who are not being targeted or rigged against? Now consider the casual players—frequent depositors and consistent losing players. These players are highly unlikely to collect data or analyze hand histories to detect inconsistencies. If these players are the primary targets of subtle manipulations, how can their experiences—or lack of reported anomalies—be included in any meaningful analysis? From the perspective of a poker room, it would actually make more sense to rig the game subtly against players who are less equipped to identify or prove such discrepancies. These players not only make up a significant portion of the player pool, but their lack of scrutiny ensures that any exploitation would go unnoticed and unreported. And let’s not pretend targeting the most vulnerable is a far-fetched idea. Consider the lottery: is it designed to exploit the wealthy, financially savvy players, or the poor and most vulnerable? The structure of the lottery system is built around taking advantage of those least equipped to understand the odds or resist the allure of a “big win.” Why wouldn’t online poker rooms apply a similar strategy by targeting frequent depositors and casual players who lack the tools or knowledge to challenge discrepancies? For example, in the 1990s, Ronald Dale Harris, a computer programmer for the Nevada Gaming Control Board, exploited his access to modify slot machines, making certain combinations impossible to achieve. This manipulation led to significant illicit gains before his scheme was uncovered. Such cases highlight that without rigorous oversight and transparency, the potential for exploitation exists. This underscores the importance of independent audits and comprehensive data analysis across all player demographics to ensure fair play. Without these measures, asserting with "very high certainty" that no manipulation occurs remains questionable. Then I guess it all boils down to audits, transparency, and controls—and how much trust we can reasonably place in these systems. The reality is that many online poker rooms are licensed in jurisdictions with lenient regulations, like the Isle of Man, Curacao, or similar, which don’t inspire much confidence in their oversight. Sure, some reputable rooms claim to undergo audits, but how much do we really trust private firms hired directly by the operators themselves? There’s an inherent conflict of interest there. Who audits the auditors? How transparent are the findings? Most players never see those reports, and the ones that are published are often vague or incomplete. Contrast this with other industries or even traditional casinos, which are subjected to rigorous public oversight and in-depth, verifiable audits. In online poker, we’re just expected to take the operator’s word for it, even though there’s a clear financial incentive for them to maintain profitable edges. If the baseline assumption is that online poker is fair, then it should follow that these rooms are fully transparent, with publicly accessible audits, open-source algorithms, and robust regulatory oversight. Yet, the lack of these safeguards makes the "trust us, it's fair" argument weak, especially given the history of scandals like Absolute Poker or even cases of rigged slot machines where combinations were made impossible to hit. Without a transparent and verifiable auditing process that includes data from all types of players, particularly the most vulnerable ones, it seems premature to assert "very high certainty" that manipulation doesn’t exist.

ejames209Micro-Stakes Grinder12 posts
Posted Nov 30, 2024, 5:41 PM#170

I mean if you're a losing player then poker does tend to resemble a slot machine quite a bit so...

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Dec 2, 2024, 6:51 PM#171

I don't know if online poker is rigged, but I can't believe I can only win 44.8% of my equity if the RNG outcomes aren't skewed.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Dec 2, 2024, 10:55 PM#172

sample way too low

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Dec 5, 2024, 12:48 AM#173

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812743#post58812743)

sample way too low

Mathematically it is significant because we aren't talking about only winning 90% of my equity. It 44.8% which way off the scale for 542 all in hands.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Dec 7, 2024, 11:34 PM#174

by OKFP m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58807540#post58807540)

LOL, it’s pretty clear you don’t have much understanding of software engineering or the complexities behind modern online gaming platforms, especially when it comes to online poker. Let me break it down for you:

No, that's not clear at all - I made a comment on an element of your post, and you seem to be inflating that into a much broader commentary than it actually was. by OKFP m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58807540#post58807540)

You’re conflating basic probability in casino games (like roulette and craps) with the highly advanced software systems that power online poker platforms and modern slot machines. These are two entirely different beasts, and dismissing the technology as “zero effort” shows a lack of understanding of what’s actually going on under the hood.

No, I never made any comment about how the probability of slot machines related to online poker, I was simply responding to "Start looking into how slot machines are programmed in real casinos and you will begin to understand how infinitely advanced technology is when it comes to software." And when it comes to things like house edge, I stand by those comments - "infinitely advanced technology" isn't required to ensure the house has an edge in casino software. But now that you've introduced some different ideas like the psychology of increased gameplay, I would agree that digital games provides casinos with numerous opportunities to make their games more appealing to play and continue playing. by OKFP m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58807540#post58807540)

Your dismissal also shows a misunderstanding of how advanced technology could be misused, even though regulated platforms operate under strict legal frameworks. The complexity of the software theoretically allows for manipulation—e.g., altering card distributions against certain players or using dynamic profiling to adjust outcomes. The fact that you think this requires ... See full post

No, I didn't comment on that. Of course it can be misused - we've seen it happen before. And if you think a poker site is being manipulated, you should stop playing there. Better yet, you should share some evidence of it so others can stop playing there too.

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Dec 11, 2024, 1:02 PM#176

by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821555#post58821555)

https://issuu.com/ionutapahideanu/docs/s... (https://issuu.com/ionutapahideanu/docs/statrep_-_online_poker_-_rigged_or_) Hallo, above in the link you find phd work on pokerstars and rng enjoy the read. spoiler.

Spoiler Show

its rigged . its proven. will it stand in court ? No

This has been discussed a few times in this thread since 2017. Search the thread for posts with "issuu" in them.

sceptichumanNewbie4 posts
Posted Dec 11, 2024, 1:09 PM#177

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821569#post58821569)

This has been discussed a few times in this thread since 2017. Search the thread for posts with "issuu" in them.

thats great news. but i activley posted the link for the user above me, caus he still questioned if rigged or not. if even in this thread its already " common knoweledge" than plz mark him with the above. No harm intended. just logic in progress. After reading in this post , im about to add my 2 (worthless?) cents. o.p. (abbreviation) = online poker Spoiler Show

We cant prove / disprove its rigged but why would online poker be any different then anything else humans are involved. Lies scam and Profit. Thats the key. Why would of all people this industry be the saints ? its mind blowing if you really think this industry wouldnt maximize profits. where are the unannounced auditions to prove any of the certificates o.p. sites "brag" about (sorry claim their neutral position) f.e. open a restaurant . You will get inspected by the employees of the health departement . annual no date giving ofc. Why not for this industry the same standards. The poker industry works with the goverment afterall to get a license in the area ( country) . So how come They are not inspected by default.

first of all, great compilation of the Riggies with threadlinks and yt links. i got to admit it was a good laugh. Making fun of the ones who got a lil less big brain power is what humans tend to do, but thats not the point, just a byproduct. Makes the bully feal better about themselves. i think the man on the same page as me called it bullying etc and than derailing with hairsplitting about defition doenst help at all. But isnt it obvious that it is happening? No need to name it. Or any upside in the name ? But see, this topic is kinda not funny, at all. to the romanian phd who got bashed. you dont need to read all of it. no one at university reads the whole book. You go index go to the key points(hypothesis , construction of arguments). read till you get it. go to conclusion and viola violet you smarter now. And then when you intersted in the details you go to the specific chapter and check it out. samplesize: so the 55k hands is not a big enough sample size. Seems reasonable. Hypothecially , you could add your results to his and have bigger sample size. If you use the same categories as the original author. its should be a fit in my book to get bigger sample , right ? ( under the condition all his samplesize is not rigged itself and recorded as happend) or am i wrong on this ? also some1 said the guy had no clue about math and pointed out 1 thing that was kinda wrong . But he left out to look at all the other points which would false some1´s hypothesis of writer not having a clue about math. Its ridicolous if you do 1 mistake and thats what people focus on the take away. Like srsly . Like said before . Some1 never had have a clue, dont have clue now, will never have clue. 😀 on the other hand. It seems to be that he is a losing player. so to continue his study he needs to deposit more. But depositing on a site you try to expose for beeing rigged makes how much sense ? (its for science bro) Just to get a bigger sample size ? i mean do you see where im coming from ? I would like to call it logic, but plz enlighten me if it doenst make sense to you and try to reason. i will read it all promise 😀 So next logic step. Which company do you trust 100% or even close to that. It would be a company which has good transparency. Same as politics. Its all so easy to understand. Thats why nothing gets lost inbetween . No corruption no Missing funds. Just all perfect and normal. fast forward. Any company wants profit. Its not enough. No never. More Growth better. Allways. Never no Growth ! Do you feal the biggest o.p. host (gg) hast good transparency ? I dont feal so. Internet forums are full of negative feedback about this matter. Opt out of sharscope. No programs to track while playing allowed. Intern solution, pokercraft (however they call it) only goes back to 180 days, and you need to contact suport for older sessions. So how come, people have so many trust for so little transparency ? Caus im a winning player bro. /dank btw logic riggie haha honestly i didnt find an edit option. some points maybe hard to get. but those with big brain power will puzzel it together. to gg last superuser was actually detected by players. Just to remind, im sure everyone has it in the back of his head. maybe another explanation a lil bit of variance and all those inet related things. lets look at us humans and our history. You know damn well, like i do, we humans never made any mistake, at all. never happend . Straight skyrocket evolution. Nor did we repeat any mistake, since we made none in the first place, that would be impossible to do anyway. Thats why we so much advanced today.

that stupid saying history keeps repeating itself. i never fully got that. did you ?! So in our o.p. context. players never were scammed. Utimate bet never happend. Nor any superuser. Backdoor 😉 access wasnt a thing either. Again we Humans. We do no mistakes. Clearly. Never happend, never will. Classic Hollywood Sci-Fi. Dont believe anyone who tells you anything different. Dont use your own mind, atleast (n)once! So to sum it up again. what makes you think you are NOT cheated. when everything clearly points the other way.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Dec 13, 2024, 6:54 AM#178

by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821574#post58821574)

thats great news. but i activley posted the link for the user above me, caus he still questioned if rigged or not.

Actually, I said nothing about whether it was rigged or not. But if you think it is you shouldn't play. by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821574#post58821574)

if even in this thread its already " common knoweledge" than plz mark him with the above. No harm intended. just logic in progress.

You seem to have misunderstood what the conclusion was about that paper. It's nonsense. by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821574#post58821574)

So in our o.p. context. players never were scammed. Utimate bet never happend. Nor any superuser. Backdoor 😉 access wasnt a thing either.

You lecturing people here about a scandal they were around for and actively telling people not to play there, is rather rich. 2+2 posters were all over this. What isn't helpful is people dropping "rigged" accusations with nothing to back them up - the more that happens, the more people tune them out, and the less likely they are to listen when someone provides real evidence of an issue. by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821574#post58821574)

Again we Humans. We do no mistakes. Clearly. Never happend, never will. Classic Hollywood Sci-Fi. Dont believe anyone who tells you anything different. Dont use your own mind, atleast (n)once! So to sum it up again. what makes you think you are NOT cheated. when everything clearly points the other way.

You seem to live in a strange world where anyone who doesn't believe an accusation without evidence must therefore not believe in any scandals, and because scams have happened, everything is a scam. There is no logic in that.

sceptichumanNewbie4 posts
Posted Dec 13, 2024, 9:31 AM#179

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58823516#post58823516)

You seem to have misunderstood what the conclusion was about that paper. It's nonsense.

Sorry i read it myself, i didnt need any conclusion when im able to get my own conclusion. I wrote a step by step guide to read the 120 pages file in a decent time for anybody to do. did you read it your own before ? again just curious. But lets talk about your point. Why is it nonsense? Samplesize? flaws of argumentation ? flaws in logic construction of arguments? what is the nonsense you refer to. again serious curious question. since i would disagree to nonsense. by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58823516#post58823516)

You lecturing people here about a scandal they were around for and actively telling people not to play there, is rather rich. 2+2 posters were all over this. What isn't helpful is people dropping "rigged" accusations with nothing to back them up - the more that happens, the more people tune them out, and the less likely they are to listen when someone provides real evidence of ... See full post

i didnt try to lecture , more like remind. When you read my posts in total, i think the reminding part becomes a bit more obvious?! if that makes sense. And yes 2+2 Forums have done a great service to the cummunity. No question about that. Total respect. 100% by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58823516#post58823516)

You seem to live in a strange world where anyone who doesn't believe an accusation without evidence must therefore not believe in any scandals, and because scams have happened, everything is a scam. There is no logic in that.

well, we all live in a strange world. Dont we ? Do you live on moon or mars already bro? Why cut the other people out of the world. We in this together, remember? Not sure if i got your point right on this. Scams happend, as you pointed out 2+2 even exposing a big one . So again my question, what makes you think its different nowadays , even with advanced software( possibilities ? why cut out the part of the sugesstion how to improve o.p. hosts integretiy with anual unannounced visits or software controll etc. ? Transparency? all the best I actually said. everything suggest we are beeing cheated. so what makes you sure we dont get cheated ?!


time gone for edditing again, sry mods. but it came to my mind. someone asked for a repeating pattern to disprove RNG i got one. play on 888. the bigblind will have enourmous winrates when hes blinded in the pot. you can see this happen so frequently in freerolls ( 2 min blinds) when people register to the FR or any tournament for that matter , if they sit out and bb comes to them. thats not normal RNG. see it yourself. but im sure you have seen it already many times if you play 888. i think it was already mentioned somewhere. anyway goign back to search issuu to 2017 and see what "nonsense" was defined. to spare you the c&p time. all the best by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=53079419#post53079419)

This. Obviously a thread about a real ebook should be in Books & Publication, but there is absolutely no reason that nonsense would justify a thread in B&P. It's fine being analyzed right here, as it's completely relevant to this thread. I was assuming NOG was joking, but I just wanted to be sure no one got any silly ideas. 😀

seems like a lively discussion happend. great points you made. totally. so you saying this about him. and your kinda work in contrats to his work. lets say it like this. toddler found ink and printed his finger on a paper. WTF dude

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Dec 13, 2024, 4:10 PM#180

by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58823582#post58823582)

seems like a lively discussion happend. great points you made. totally. so you saying this about him. and your kinda work in contrats to his work. lets say it like this. toddler found ink and printed his finger on a paper. WTF dude

I have zero idea what you're trying to say about this post from 7 years ago. If you have a point, let me know what it is, but if it's just to pull a single post out of context and try to dissect it, that seems rather unproductive.

sceptichumanNewbie4 posts
Posted Dec 19, 2024, 11:31 AM#182

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58823726#post58823726)

I have zero idea what you're trying to say about this post from 7 years ago. If you have a point, let me know what it is, but if it's just to pull a single post out of context and try to dissect it, that seems rather unproductive.

well as i stated i looked up what your critisim about his paper was. i found the quoted line. as your first ever statement on issuu. So how did a debate happen, like you (or ther other mod, maybe im wrong on this, but who brought it up doenst matter) suggested to me when i brought up the paper in this thread again, " was debated many times in this thread" when litterally 2017 this quote is the first thing you said regarding to issuu. ok, got my point cowboy ? also i asked you directly some question why you believe nonsense, no response to any of them. On another note you left out so many topics in my thread, not that i expect you or anyone to address any of them, but when we talking and debating here, why not do it ? 😀 best to all of us and merry xmas

4cardfishNewbie3 posts
Posted Dec 19, 2024, 12:14 PM#183

Hey, sceptic. This 'paper' or whatever you call it is a ridiculous waste of time on the author's behalf. It takes a laughable sample size into account, the only purpose that it serves is that it provides insight into the mind of a losing poker player. Absolute LOL at taking this piece of s*** seriously, and calling it a paper or 'phd work'.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Dec 21, 2024, 3:22 AM#184

by 4cardfish m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58829611#post58829611)

Hey, sceptic. This 'paper' or whatever you call it is a ridiculous waste of time on the author's behalf. It takes a laughable sample size into account, the only purpose that it serves is that it provides insight into the mind of a losing poker player. Absolute LOL at taking this piece of s*** seriously, and calling it a paper or 'phd work'.

I didn't read the document but sample size isn't the be all and end all. It only makes the standard deviation smaller. If you are 5 standard deviations away from the mean with a 500 hand sample size or 5 million hand sample size the odds are the same.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Dec 23, 2024, 6:32 AM#185

by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58829602#post58829602)

well as i stated i looked up what your critisim about his paper was. i found the quoted line. as your first ever statement on issuu. So how did a debate happen, like you(or ther other mod, maybe im wrong on this, but who brought it up doenst matter) suggested to me when i brought up the paper in this thread again, " was debated many times in this thread" when litterally 2017 th... See full post

No, um...cowboy, I don't. Probably because you didn't make one. Yes, you found my post that was near the end of the discussion of that paper. If you scroll back from that post, you'll find that NewOldGuy raised quite a few issues with it. And there have been discussions about it since then, when others have debunked various problems with it. What you think that post of mine shows, well, I'm not really to sure. by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58829602#post58829602)

also i asked you directly some question why you believe nonsense, no response to any of them.

I didn't (and don't) really see the need, given that others have already pointed out numerous issues with the paper. by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58829602#post58829602)

On another note you left out so many topics in my thread, not that i expect you or anyone to address any of them, but when we talking and debating here, why not do it ? 😀

Because I have better things to do, and because your points are all over the place and rather difficult to address. Even if I were interested, I wouldn't know where to start with something like: on the other hand. It seems to be that he is a losing player. so to continue his study he needs to deposit more. But depositing on a site you try to expose for beeing rigged makes how much sense ? (its for science bro) Just to get a bigger sample size ? i mean do you see where im coming from ? I would like to call it logic, but plz enlighten me if it doenst make sense to you and try to reason. i will read it all promise So next logic step. Which company do you trust 100% or even close to that. It would be a company which has good transparency. Same as politics. Its all so easy to understand. Thats why nothing gets lost inbetween . No corruption no Missing funds. Just all perfect and normal. fast forward. Any company wants profit. Its not enough. No never. More Growth better. Allways. Never no Growth ! Do you feal the biggest o.p. host (gg) hast good transparency ? I dont feal so. Internet forums are full of negative feedback about this matter. Opt out of sharscope. No programs to track while playing allowed. Intern solution, pokercraft (however they call it) only goes back to 180 days, and you need to contact suport for older sessions. So how come, people have so many trust for so little transparency ? Caus im a winning player bro. /dank btw logic riggie haha honestly i didnt find an edit option. some points maybe hard to get. but those with big brain power will puzzel it together. to gg last superuser was actually detected by players. Just to remind, im sure everyone has it in the back of his head. maybe another explanation a lil bit of variance and all those inet related things. lets look at us humans and our history. You know damn well, like i do, we humans never made any mistake, at all. never happend . Straight skyrocket evolution. Nor did we repeat any mistake, since we made none in the first place, that would be impossible to do anyway. Thats why we so much advanced today. that stupid saying history keeps repeating itself. i never fully got that. did you ?! So in our o.p. context. players never were scammed. Utimate bet never happend. Nor any superuser. Backdoor access wasnt a thing either. Again we Humans. We do no mistakes. Clearly. Never happend, never will. Classic Hollywood Sci-Fi. Dont believe anyone who tells you anything different. Dont use your own mind, atleast (n)once! So to sum it up again. what makes you think you are NOT cheated. when everything clearly points the other way.

by sceptichuman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58829602#post58829602)

best to all of us and merry xmas

And to you.

GundamPokerNewbie3 posts
Posted Jan 8, 2025, 5:01 AM#186

Is there anyway an algorithm can just auto-delete/remove posts that state ... "There is something strange going on because..." and then gives a single hand example. and keep any posts that state ... "There is something strange going on because..." and then posts good statistical data with a >200,000 population sample.

  • just wondering.
Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 16, 2025, 4:21 AM#187

Well after 7 months and 12000 additional hands since I first used Hold'em Manager my all in adjusted differential increased from 1 363 369 to 2 531 360. That's 45.6% of the amount I lost and is almost exactly the same as what it was 7 months ago. Their results are consistent LOL.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 16, 2025, 12:17 PM#188

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58859162#post58859162)

Well after 7 months and 12000 additional hands since I first used Hold'em Manager my all in adjusted differential increased from 1 363 369 to 2 531 360. That's 45.6% of the amount I lost and is almost exactly the same as what it was 7 months ago. Their results are consistent LOL. ... See full post

Well, if you play on Pokerstars (different rooms algorythms of player's bankroll management work according to slightly different logic) your final table allins will always be under EV (5%-10% unlucky circumstances) to controll your bankroll (if you manage to show a high ROI level). So, these huge allins will influence on an overall result. This proves nothing, cause 5%-10% - it happenes. Just a bad luck )) If you wanna controll your "luck factor" - try to pay attention to your prefinal (on a buble) and final table allins. But this is not the way you can prove PS is rigged. The are much more effective ways to prove it. At the same time, if you play 1 table (not a regular player, who generate a huge activity in a room, so software let him get an additional positive ROI) - you can just stay more calm being aware of what is going on by prefinal and final tables allins monitoring.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 16, 2025, 4:11 PM#189

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58859352#post58859352)

Well, if you play on Pokerstars (different rooms algorythms of player's bankroll management work according to slightly different logic) your final table allins will always be under EV (5%-10% unlucky circumstances) to controll your bankroll (if you manage to show a high ROI level). So, these huge allins will influence on an overall result.This proves nothing, cause 5%-10% - it ... See full post

First of all it's GGPoker. Second I'm winning 60.9% of my equity which is more than 5 to 10 %

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 16, 2025, 8:07 PM#190

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58859517#post58859517)

First of all it's GGPoker. Second I'm winning 60.9% of my equity which is more than 5 to 10 %

If you tell me your average allin value and % of allins-won-fact. I will tell you estimation (i got a calculator in Excel for this, was useful for investigations regarding rooms RNGs btw)) Number of allins = 1059, right? Have never played on GG... Can't tell anything about it's RNG. I specialize on Pokerstars, Partypoker and Redstar's RNGs ))

AtlanteanxNewbie2 posts
Posted Jan 17, 2025, 3:10 AM#191

This site is 100% absolutely rigged beyond question. I would avoid cash games entirely as I'm fairly sure they have super users cheating at them. The tourneys are beatable but I'm fairly certain I'm being cheated in them in order to limit my winnings. Here are just a few examples of my hand history today from about 5 hours worth of playing in various tournies ranging from 5 to 33$. These don't even include the coin flip all ins I've been losing (am currently 5 wins out of my last 30 flip situations).

Is it possible to run this bad? Sure but within a 6 hour window? Incredibly unlikely. This is just a small sample too. I'm still profitable despite all of this but I'm fairly certain I'm being cheated to prevent me from steamrolling everyone. I'd bet a lot of money that they tend to rig it in favor of people who play casino games often if not just outright house players stealing it.

Here's another beat I just took for chiplead of a tourney. Yep, totally legit poker for sure. And another just now.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 17, 2025, 9:49 PM#192

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58859747#post58859747)

If you tell me your average allin value and % of allins-won-fact. I will tell you estimation (i got a calculator in Excel for this, was useful for investigations regarding rooms RNGs btw)) Number of allins = 1059, right? Have never played on GG... Can't tell anything about it's RNG. I specialize on Pokerstars, Partypoker and Redstar's RNGs ))

So since this is the second time I am using Holdem Manager I was able to break down the all in hands quicker. I won 57.48% of the all in chips. If I won my equity it should have been 67.21%. My opponents won 29.67% above their equity. I was the favorite in 571 of the 1059 all in hands. Opponents were favorites in 470. Even if my equity was 49.9% in a multiway pot (like the first hand with pocket 10 against A9h and Qc6h, another suspicious all in) I counted it as my opponents were favorites. 18 hands were 50%. Opponents won 480 hands and chopped 34 times (15 times at 50% equity, 7 times as the favorite at 50.18% (average) and 12 times as the underdog at 36.5% (average)). Not one time did we chop when they were a significant favorite but we did chop 12 times when I was. Opponents also won 3 hands when the equity was 50 50.Even when I calculated everything in their favor they won 10 more hands than their 470 favored total. I won 542 hands, 29 below my 571. Then top that off with me winning only 60.9% of my all in equity, I have a hard time believing the probabilities aren't skewed.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 18, 2025, 2:59 AM#193

by Atlanteanx m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58860174#post58860174)

Here's another beat I just took for chiplead of a tourney. Yep, totally legit poker for sure.... See full post

A set which is part of an opponent's straight is a GGPoker classic. That and the card that gives you 2 pair, a set or a straight that completes your opponent's flush.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 18, 2025, 6:31 AM#194

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58861229#post58861229)

by Atlanteanx m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58860174#post58860174)

Here's another beat I just took for chiplead of a tourney. Yep, totally legit poker for sure.

A set which is part of an opponent's straight is a GGPoker classic. That and the card that gives you 2 pair, a set or a straight that completes your opponent's flush.... See full post

Yeah, and it was really important to push on the turn, if you understood that you were ahead! Otherwise software just decides which player wins it. Chances doesn't work on postflop in online poker, it's important to understand. Why chances doesn't work on postflop: We can't see opponent's hand every time and software uses this fact do distribute chips between players according to their bankroll level/activity in the room/current EV (to equalize all players and convert their bankrolls into a commission). So, it's really important to push every time when you are ahead, so you can see a hand of your opponent on a showdown, not on a postflop. Then the only way software can fool us - ruin chances of allins openly.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 18, 2025, 6:46 AM#195

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58860974#post58860974)

I was the favorite in 571 of the 1059 all in hands. Opponents were favorites in 470. Even if my equity was 49.9% in a multiway pot (like the first hand with pocket 10 against A9h and Qc6h, another suspicious all in) I counted it as my opponents were favorites. 18 hands were 50%. Opponents won 480 hands and chopped 34 times (15 times at 50% equity, 7 times as the favorite at 50.... See full post

I read you attentively. Look how i controll luck-factor. Every tournament i record all the "key allins" - %. This is how this looks:

You can see a downstreak of 9 tournaments (03.06-03.07.2023). I played allins 51%, 35%, 63% ... 13%, 18%. 19 allins in total. Average equity - 39%. Now look. I won 6 of 19 allins here. It's 32% - fact won. And then i calculate chances that i win 6 allins or less of 39% in average on a distance of 19 allins. It's 34% unlucky circumstances.

That's why i need you to tell me what is your Average Equity (!). For example. Your average allin % is 55%, But you won 51% of allins. Then, on a distance of 1059 allins it's 0, 44% deviation. And it happenes approximately once in 140 000-150 000 allins distance in average. Did you get my point?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 18, 2025, 6:59 AM#196

So, i don't work with EV, i work with Allin %. Why: because after every tournament i watch and calculate ITM reach REAL chances. For example. If i reach ITM in the tourney and play two all chips allins 40% and 70% - my ITM reach is 28% (40*70). This is the way i control my ingame efficiency. I calculate ITM reach chances after each tournament.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 18, 2025, 11:04 PM#197

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58861229#post58861229)

A set which is part of an opponent's straight is a GGPoker classic. That and the card that gives you 2 pair, a set or a straight that completes your opponent's flush.

And no sooner after the words were spoken the draw that completes the set and straight and potentially a flush.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Jan 19, 2025, 1:53 PM#198

wait.. if you are 100% sure GG is rigged.. why do you keep playing there? are you delusional?

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 19, 2025, 7:27 PM#199

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58863030#post58863030)

wait.. if you are 100% sure GG is rigged.. why do you keep playing there? are you delusional?

Where did I say it was 100% rigged? I'll wait for your answer. Second I'm playing with their money only. What I win with the freebees. I'm I going to get another smart answer now? But let me play your game from the guy who thinks you can flip heads 80 times out of 100. Way to small of a sample size.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Jan 19, 2025, 10:34 PM#200

why on earth would you complain about a site where you only play freebies and therefore cant lose money?? what a way to play poker btw haha, if anything GG should be complaining about you maybe karma is the reason you're running bad 🙂

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 19, 2025, 11:41 PM#201

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58863642#post58863642)

why on earth would you complain about a site where you only play freebies and therefore cant lose money?? what a way to play poker btw haha, if anything GG should be complaining about you maybe karma is the reason you're running bad 🙂

Why on earth would you whine about people posting actual statistics on a forum. You complain when people post anecdotal "evidence". This isn't anecdotal so why are you whining?. Oh and I did actually play with my money for 2 years up until January 2023, which is when the unbelievable bad beats after unbelievable bad beats started. And after a year of that I decided to download PockerTracker and then Holdem Manager to see if my perception was accurate.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 12:00 AM#202

And let's add another breakdown. I find it unbelievable that my all in adjusted differential on all the all in hands I lost can hover around 0 for over a thousand hands.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 3:06 AM#203

In fact, even if GG is rigged, it doesn't mean we can't win there, guys. But our profit will be limitted by a software to let players deposits convert into a room's commission. If you play 1 table, Amazing, I don't know any room which doesn't reduce ROI after any withdrawal. Cause if you only play 1 table your "current priority" in the room is lower then priority of new players/regular players (playing 4+ tables, generating activity in a room). And it becomes lower again after any withdrawal. More then that, if you play really well (i'm a professional level player), you should also understand that your profitability will be limitted by the room. I didn't manage to make 100% or more ROI in any room. More then that, I tried to go down (from 60-100$ buyins to 1-3-5$ buyins) to "test" the gameplay and my ROI even reduced.

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 10:33 AM#204

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864287#post58864287)

In fact, even if GG is rigged, it doesn't mean we can't win there, guys. But our profit will be limitted by a software to let players deposits convert into a room's commission. ...

So it's rigged. End of debate?

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 12:08 PM#206

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864460#post58864460)

No!! Too early to close the topic ))) Proofs to the public! ))

OK. Decide how it's rigged; tell us exactly how to test your hypothesis; ask everyone to start testing from now; ask everyone to post their results of their tests; and merge all their results. Then we might be able to end the debate?

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 12:18 PM#207

Poker's just not for you guys, move on

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 12:24 PM#208
  1. Decide how it's rigged: will be explained on youtube very soon )) Responsible - Johnmir
  2. Tell us exactly how to test your hypothesis: will be also explained - Johnmir
  3. Start testing: responsible - Society
  4. Post their results: Society (on youtube/debate thread/gambling committees)
  5. Merge all their results: responsible - Gambling committees
  6. End the debate: - 2+2 administration 😃 Pretty easy! ))
JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 4:10 PM#209

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864476#post58864476)

Poker's just not for you guys, move on

How you know? 😃 Have you ever seen poker online? Since 2005 - I haven't seen poker online. Look, this card game got a general rule - random distributing of hands between players, random shuffling for flop, turn and river. I saw people playing poker offline. I even played myself! Buy haven't seen anyone playing online... Some different game - yeah, funny one. Some people like to sit and watch for a software to choose the winner this time. Cool game for you, but not for me, sorry! ))

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 4:14 PM#210

If you are a high level player, you can even see, how exactly soft distributes chips between players on the table. It's a key to take the right decisions and fold hands in time btw :P

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 7:12 PM#211

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864471#post58864471)

OK. Decide how it's rigged; tell us exactly how to test your hypothesis; ask everyone to start testing from now; ask everyone to post their results of their tests; and merge all their results. Then we might be able to end the debate?

Do you consider skewing the results to favor lower equity hands rigging? Some have said it isn't rigging because it doesn't favor anyone. The only way that I could see testing that hypothesis, that would not be a nightmare to compile, would be to review the all-in adjusted differential on all, all-in high equity hands (more than 50% equity) and see if the results are skewed. You could also compare the win rates with the equity rates, but I didn't see a way to easily compile that data in Holdem Manager. Regardless that won't end of the debate because if they are skewed, it won't be by much because nobody would skew it significantly so that it would be obvious. Do you consider skewing the hands for more action, rigging? Can't think of a way to easily test this hypothesis. Maybe by the frequency of chops but does anyone know what a normal frequency is? The other ways I could see would require hand by hand reviews, which would be a nightmare.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 20, 2025, 8:31 PM#212

Rooms "play" with allins on a short distance to attract "new players" or to control the bankroll of a winning player. But it's not a key to find violations of laws. I tested crazy number of different stuff regarding allins: Allins on the final table. Prefinal table. All chips allins. Allins vs shorter stack. Analyzed wave effect of allins winning/loosing. But found much more effective ways to find out what is going on ) A good idea is analyzing of a wave effect in card dealing process, and it gave me some good results in finding proofs of rigging (the problem is not that we don't know the game is rigged, every average level player can see, the game is not natural everywhere, postflop, preflop, first month in any room = upstreak, limit change = upstreak. The problem is to prove (!) - that the game is rigged, to make online poker illegal with a help of gambling committees). By the way. On a bigger distance - all the rooms i tested gave a normal deviations of EV<->Fact Profit. So, analyzing of allins, in general, is not the best direction. You can try if it's interesting for you. But i tested almost everything there. It's all good with the allins. Not well, but it's acceptable.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Jan 21, 2025, 6:57 AM#213

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864870#post58864870)

Do you consider skewing ... rigging?

Of course. By definition, any form of intentional skewing is rigging. by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864870#post58864870)

Some have said it isn't rigging because it doesn't favor anyone.

I find this hard to believe. If they did, they're wrong. What I think more likely is that they might have suggested it would be unlikely to happen as there would be little profit in it. by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864870#post58864870)

Do you consider skewing the hands for more action, rigging? Can't think of a way to easily test this hypothesis. Maybe by the frequency of chops but does anyone know what a normal frequency is? The other ways I could see would require hand by hand reviews, which would be a nightmare.

Why would they skew things to make less money?

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 21, 2025, 5:15 PM#214

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58865941#post58865941)

Of course. By definition, any form of intentional skewing is rigging. I find this hard to believe. If they did, they're wrong. What I think more likely is that they might have suggested it would be unlikely to happen as there would be little profit in it. Why would they skew things to make less money?

How are they making less money? It's actually more profitable to skew it to favor less skilled players. Fewer quit playing. That's why GG has such a high rake to give incentives to those players. And if they make it more luck based even fewer will quit. You can't make money if you don't have casual players returning and even Negreanu admitted the rake and incentives were designed to ensure more losing players kept on playing. The fact is making it more luck based makes it more profitable because they don't make money on who wins but how many play.

Lucy's FurMicro-Stakes Grinder13 posts
Posted Jan 21, 2025, 10:40 PM#215

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58866299#post58866299)

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58865941#post58865941)

Of course. By definition, any form of intentional skewing is rigging.I find this hard to believe. If they did, they're wrong. What I think more likely is that they might have suggested it would be unlikely to happen as there would be little profit in it.Why would they skew things to make less money

How are they making less money It's actually more profitable to skew it to favor ... See full post

ITT: Global Poker Slips Up: BIG SECRET REVEALED! (CONFIRMED x3) I just made this thread; in which I have emails documenting the confirmation. GP uses RTP on poker tables.

This cuts through all the BS of are they or aren't they skewing results. At least on GP -> by their own admission; they are.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 22, 2025, 4:30 PM#216

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864870#post58864870)

The only way that I could see testing that hypothesis, that would not be a nightmare to compile, would be to review the all-in adjusted differential on all, all-in high equity hands (more than 50% equity) and see if the results are skewed.

Since I suggested it, here are my results. Positive Equity

Ultimately I consistently underperformed my equity when it was positive.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 22, 2025, 7:12 PM#218

Yeah, and it's getting better now... You win around 80% of the equity now. Have never seen big rooms skewing allins on a bigger distance. And they don't need to do it. They just spread hands between weak and strong players special way... Allins are fine everywhere ))

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 22, 2025, 9:41 PM#219

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58867630#post58867630)

Yeah, and it's getting better now... You win around 80% of the equity now. Have never seen big rooms skewing allins on a bigger distance. And they don't need to do it. They just spread hands between weak and strong players special way... Allins are fine everywhere ))

That only includes the 572 positive equity hands of the total 1059 all in hands. Nothing has changed except I isolated the hands I had better than 50% equity, and it shows I am losing over 20% more than my equity as the favorite. And the hypothesis was, is it skewed to win less on all-in high equity hands (more than 50% equity).

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 22, 2025, 9:51 PM#220

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58867625#post58867625)

That's a pretty big goalpost shift. I was responding to this: Those are two very different things.

Oh you want me to answer how more action doesn't make less profits I actually didn't believe you could be saying rigging for action makes them less money because it's obvious why it doesn't hurt their profits. Rake on cash games is based on the amount of the pot. More action, bigger pots. Rake on tournaments is based player entries. More all ins, more rebuys.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 1:44 AM#221

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58867893#post58867893)

Oh you want me to answer how more action doesn't make less profits I actually didn't believe you could be saying rigging for action makes them less money because it's obvious why it doesn't hurt their profits. Rake on cash games is based on the amount of the pot. More action, bigger pots. Rake on tournaments is based player entries. More all ins, more rebuys.

In cash games, rake is capped. More small-medium pots makes them more money than a few big pots. Far better for them to have people swapping money back and forth all day long; no need for extra "action pots".

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 1:52 AM#222

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58868136#post58868136)

In cash games, rake is capped. More small-medium pots makes them more money than a few big pots. Far better for them to have people swapping money back and forth all day long; no need for extra "action pots".

Doesn't matter. Higher pots ensures maximum rake. And in tournaments it means more rebuys. They don't lose money. And GG's rake is the highest.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 7:48 AM#223

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58867875#post58867875)

That only includes the 572 positive equity hands of the total 1059 all in hands. Nothing has changed except I isolated the hands I had better than 50% equity, and it shows I am losing over 20% more than my equity as the favorite. And the hypothesis was, is it skewed to win less on all-in high equity hands (more than 50% equity).

Ah, i got you! I met this before in another rooms, but on a short distance usually. On a bigger distance this effect disappears (never played on GG though). Well, it's hard to explain, I will try to: If you come to a room and start to overplay other players, software "stops" you on a short distance not to let you win too much. What does this mean? They must "pay" you more on a longer distance, right? They can't just stop letting you win good allins. What they do - You "accidently" start to play huge number of bad allins. These bad allins equalize your average equity and prove that you won other players just on a short distance but later just took a huge number of bad decisions. This is how it works. Hard to understand but it works like that.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 8:02 AM#224

And guys... You are poker players. Huge pots converts all the players bankrolls into a room's commission seriously faster. Pretty obvious. But more important, it's a simple pschology that more action attracts more low level players to the game. All the casinos - is an entertainment.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 4:14 PM#225

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58868371#post58868371)

Ah, i got you! I met this before in another rooms, but on a short distance usually. On a bigger distance this effect disappears (never played on GG though).

We will see what happens if others compile their results because the Net Win and Adjusted Differential lines should weave back and forth. And for added context I included all, all-in hands where my equity was over 50%. 53 of those hands I had the nuts, so my equity was 100% and the opponent had no draws that could win. If you remove those hands from the calculations, I underperformed by over 23%

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 5:38 PM#226

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58868624#post58868624)

We will see what happens if others compile their results because the Net Win and Adjusted Differential lines should weave back and forth. And for added context I included all, all-in hands where my equity was over 50%. 53 of those hands I had the nuts, so my equity was 100% and the opponent had no draws that could win. If you remove those hands from the calculations, I underper... See full post

Hope you will get this back! And yes, sure, if you monitor this I would exclude all the allins with 100% and 0% chances, cause this is not random, it's the same as you would won chips postflop (bluff, showdown, etc). It should be excluded!

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 5:42 PM#227

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58868152#post58868152)

Doesn't matter. Higher pots ensures maximum rake. And in tournaments it means more rebuys. They don't lose money. And GG's rake is the highest.

Players going broke faster doesn't necessarily mean more profit. Players play until they don't want to deposit anymore and you have winning players consistently taking money off the table. If I play a fish HU and break them before a table fills up, then they're not making any rake. If they're sick of losing and quit, then a site can't make a profit off of them. They make money thru raking the deposits and only the fish do that For example, if a site wanted to rig the deal for max profit, then they'd make everyone break even, forever and ever, always. No player profits, everyone sifts their money like sand thru rake. 100% of deposits churn into rake. If I play a fish HU and end up on the wrong end of variance for a while, then the site makes a ton more in rake and the table likely eventually fills up. Full tables w ppl grinding long hours is more profitable for the site If you kill the fish too fast, then you kill the ecosystem. If you don't have grinders starting tables and entering SNGs/MTTs, then you won't have games consistently churning rake for the site to profit. You need a balance of both

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 7:18 PM#228

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58868735#post58868735)

Players going broke faster doesn't necessarily mean more profit. Players play until they don't want to deposit anymore and you have winning players consistently taking money off the table. If I play a fish HU and break them before a table fills up, then they're not making any rake. If they're sick of losing and quit, then a site can't make a profit off of them. They make money ... See full post

Yes it is a balance but these sites and casinos know that balance better than anyone. Rigging it for actions would also give players that slot machine adrenaline rush. Oh I was so close to hitting that triple 7. Is it happening, don't know because it is too difficult to prove. I originally mentioned chops as a means because they seem to happen a lot at GG and would happen if players had similar cards (both hitting the flop). Not the best way but better ways would require hand by hand review and that is not practical. And in an effort to maximize profits that's a reason to also skew it to favor the underdog (skewed to win less than your equity on your high equity hands). That keeps the fish in longer and gives them that rush.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Jan 23, 2025, 9:40 PM#229

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58868735#post58868735)

Players going broke faster doesn't necessarily mean more profit. Players play until they don't want to deposit anymore and you have winning players consistently taking money off the table. If I play a fish HU and break them before a table fills up, then they're not making any rake. If they're sick of losing and quit, then a site can't make a profit off of them. They make money ... See full post

Exactly. But it seems we have a couple of people here who are convinced that a site or sites are rigged for action, and so they need the narrative to fit that conclusion. "In cash games, rake is capped. More small-medium pots makes them more money than a few big pots. Far better for them to have people swapping money back and forth all day long; no need for extra 'action pots'." In response: "Huge pots converts all the players bankrolls into a room's commission seriously faster. Pretty obvious." "Doesn't matter. Higher pots ensures maximum rake" Not much point in arguing against "logic" like that.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 24, 2025, 5:43 PM#230

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58869037#post58869037)

Exactly. But it seems we have a couple of people here who are convinced that a site or sites are rigged for action, and so they need the narrative to fit that conclusion. "In cash games, rake is capped. More small-medium pots makes them more money than a few big pots. Far better for them to have people swapping money back and forth all day long; no need for extra 'action pots'.... See full post

Are you actually arguing that higher pots don't ensure maximum rake? Unless the pots all hit or exceed the limit it increases rake. That's basic math. That fact that GG has increased the rake over the years proves that the game could tolerate a higher rate. That's a fact. But you pretend that you proved they haven't rigged the game for action with zero evidence and pass it if as logic.

Mr. Big StackMicro-Stakes Grinder5 posts
Posted Jan 24, 2025, 7:58 PM#231

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/292/o... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/292/online-poker-sites/global-poker-unofficial-discussion-thread-1824358/index38.html) If the images in comment #942 are authentic, then this is the smoking gun. At least for Global Poker. RTP or Return to Player is most commonly associated with slot machines. It is a mandate by the state gaming authority that a certain percentage of the money played must be returned to players. With poker the only way to ensure that you meet the requirement would be to manipulate the outcome of hands. You wouldn't have to do this with every hand played.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 24, 2025, 8:11 PM#232

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58868845#post58868845)

Yes it is a balance but these sites and casinos know that balance better than anyone. Rigging it for actions would also give players that slot machine adrenaline rush. Oh I was so close to hitting that triple 7. Is it happening, don't know because it is too difficult to prove. I originally mentioned chops as a means because they seem to happen a lot at GG and would happen if pl... See full post

Yes, good point and totally matches with my observations. All the players on the table got "close" hands almost every hand, I'm not only professional analyst, i have also played offline poker pretty much, nothing even close to this "same hands" frequency appears offline on the same distance (100 hands of offline and 100 hands of online game - are totally different). Of course we need numbers here, statistical analysis. But just intuitively it looks simply obvious, guys. It's doesn't mean the game is unfair. But cmon, too much action from 2010-2015? Did you play in 2005-2010 online? Totally different game play, and i remember it really well. Nowadays it's like an arcade game. Not a poker game any more. What is this, lol. I don't know, if there are other pro players here but ... All the pros "feel" chances for everything in the game. And they are not natural online everywhere, preflop and postflop. Simply different game. About action and attraction of new players. Agree with Amazing. But he is saying, again, some basic marketing stuff. Yes, action flops makes the game more exciting. And all the game developers use it, in card games it's involved everywhere nowadays.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 24, 2025, 8:49 PM#233

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58870118#post58870118)

Yes, good point and totally matches with my observations. All the players on the table got "close" hands almost every hand, I'm not only professional analyst, i have also played offline poker pretty much, nothing even close to this "same hands" frequency appears offline on the same distance (100 hands of offline and 100 hands of online game - are totally different). Of course w... See full post

If you watch the first season of Game of Gold, Charlie Carrel said something I found interesting in a hand with Maria Ho. Maria hit a straight on the turn and Charlie had top pair and paired the board on the river. Maria raised and Charlie tanked and said, if we're playing online I would fold this but, I'm really strong. He eventually folded but I think his remark was telling. by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58870118#post58870118)

Did you play in 2005-2010 online? Totally different game play, and i remember it really well. Nowadays it's like an arcade game. Not a poker game any more. What is this, lol.

Didn't play online until after covid. Use to go to Vegas twice a year and play for 5 days each trip. Really liked the Aria, Venetian and Encore/Wynn tournaments.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Jan 24, 2025, 10:58 PM#234

by Bobo Fett m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58869037#post58869037)

Well it's simple. They have no clue what they're talking about This thread is basically an echo chamber for the delusional and ignorant at this point The funniest thing about this thread is it is filled with people who swear they're playing in a rigged game and yet they insist on continuing to play in a game apparently designed to take their money away from them. It is the height of stupidity and absolutely hilarious to me

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 25, 2025, 2:30 AM#235

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58870170#post58870170)

If you watch the first season of Game of Gold, Charlie Carrel said something I found interesting in a hand with Maria Ho. Maria hit a straight on the turn and Charlie had top pair and paired the board on the river. Maria raised and Charlie tanked and said, if we're playing online I would fold this but, I'm really strong. He eventually folded but I think his remark was telling.

Thank you for the story, haven't seen this yet! I'm surprised they didn't cut this. But the business works too well lately )) They are not afraid of anything. In modern society you can say anything! And it will be fine. by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58870277#post58870277)

Well it's simple. They have no clue what they're talking aboutThis thread is basically an echo chamber for the delusional and ignorant at this pointThe funniest thing about this thread is it is filled with people who swear they're playing in a rigged game and yet they insist on continuing to play in a game apparently designed to take their money away from them. It is the height... See full post

Me, personally - I don't play online anything expensive any more. I managed to figure out what is going on, and it's interesting to test the soft for me, but not to play. But many guys keep playing even knowing it's rigged cause it doesn't mean you can't win something. This is the reason, man. Regular players do win. Means it's possible to win. Long time ago, i knew the game was rigged, but i kept playing, and kept winning. I quitted cause i didn't want my potential to be limited by online rooms. And chose another direction in life. And by the way. Many "online pros" (regular players) suppose the game is rigged, even admit that, but they keep playing, keep winning (due to some reasons, which are not connected with their level of playing). They are okay mentally, they are not stupid, they just earn money by clicking the screen "some card game" :P But this kind of job doesn't satisfy everyone.

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Jan 26, 2025, 3:32 PM#236

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58869925#post58869925)

Are you actually arguing that higher pots don't ensure maximum rake? Unless the pots all hit or exceed the limit it increases rake. That's basic math. ...

If a site rakes at 5% of the pot up to a rake cap of $2, then whether the pot is $40 or $100 the site only receives $2. The recreational player with his weekend $100 might lose his $100 in two HU $100 pots of which only $40 of his money has been raked, him earning the site $2 before he disappears. It's obviously much better for the site if the loser loses five HU $40 pots, when the site rakes all $100 of the loser's money, him earning the site $5 before he disappears. He's arguing that smaller pots, up to $40 in this example, ensure that the maximum rake is earned by the site. If there was an "action rig", the pots would probably be increased to over $40, reducing the rake earned on the money on the tables before the winners win it and take it off the tables.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 26, 2025, 9:00 PM#237

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58870448#post58870448)

Thank you for the story, haven't seen this yet!I'm surprised they didn't cut this. But the business works too well lately )) They are not afraid of anything. In modern society you can say anything! And it will be fine.Me, personally - I don't play online anything expensive any more. I managed to figure out what is going on, and it's interesting to test the soft for me, but not ... See full post

Before the trial version expires I decided to run one final set of numbers. How often does 3 or more suited hit the board when I hit 2 pair, a set or a straight. One of the things that can drive betting is potential flushes. Unless I made an error, by my calculations, before any cards are dealt, there is a 34.02% chance 3 or more suited cards will hit the board. 2 pair 228/670 = 34.03% Set 63/156 = 40.38% Straight 44/108 = 40.74% By my calculations the sets and straights combined are 2.23 standard deviations above the mean. Not a huge deviation but something to keep an eye if it remains at 6.5%. by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58871760#post58871760)

If a site rakes at 5% of the pot up to a rake cap of $2, then whether the pot is $40 or $100 the site only receives $2. The recreational player with his weekend $100 might lose his $100 in two HU $100 pots of which only $40 of his money has been raked, him earning the site $2 before he disappears. It's obviously much better for the site if the loser loses five HU $40 pots, when... See full post

He already admitted most pots are small or medium (not exceeding the rake limit) and if they are currently doing it, the recreational players are still playing. Regardless you can't make a claim and expect it to be taken seriously without any evidence, and neither have actually provided any evidence. Because I say so isn't evidence. As I acknowledged it is a balance, but it is a a balance sites like GG know better than anyone here, and that's not debatable. For example they probably know the average time recreational players play and what they will tolerate losing and still return. And GG also returns the largest portion of their rake-back to losing players which they use to ensure their recreational players return. And I would argue most recreational players don't want to grind so a little more action isn't necessarily a negative for them.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 27, 2025, 6:38 AM#238

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58872192#post58872192)

Before the trial version expires I decided to run one final set of numbers. How often does 3 or more suited hit the board when I hit 2 pair, a set or a straight. One of the things that can drive betting is potential flushes. Unless I made an error, by my calculations, before any cards are dealt, there is a 34.02% chance 3 or more suited cards will hit the board. 2 pair 228/670 ... See full post

1, 57% here )) Pretty rare, yes. Suspicious, but acceptable ))

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Jan 27, 2025, 11:58 PM#239

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58870448#post58870448)

Thank you for the story, haven't seen this yet!I'm surprised they didn't cut this. But the business works too well lately )) They are not afraid of anything. In modern society you can say anything! And it will be fine.Me, personally - I don't play online anything expensive any more. I managed to figure out what is going on, and it's interesting to test the soft for me, but not ... See full post

"Many guys" still playing because they "know it's rigged" just means they don't understand variance. That and they don't handle being on the wrong end of it very well. You do understand that just because you state things as if they were fact doesn't actually make them true, right? I've played on at least a dozen sites and the people who whine and complain (and probably end up in this thread) all say the same exact things about the specific site they happen to be playing on. Here is a hint: The only way they could be correct is if ALL sites were rigged. And we know with 100% certainty that's not true. It's much, much more likely none of them are rigged and it's exactly what I've already said. They're just delusional and ignorant players who neither understand nor handle variance very well. Even winning players are pretty clueless... I remember before the US had states that explicitly legalized online poker that people were clamoring for everyone to wait until the US regulated sites to show us all how rigged Full Tilt, PokerStars, PartyPoker et al were. Whelp, we have explicitly legal and regulated sites now and the deal of the cards has literally not changed for any site in existence. What's their excuse now? You want to do statistical analysis on a given site's deal then I would suggest getting at least 500k-1 million hand histories and take a look. The stuff that gets posted on here is pretty laughable, honestly The only site in existence in the past that actually had a rigged deal was Planet Poker and they died a pretty quick death. Every site since then is likely aware of them and have a great incentive to NOT rig the deal. Whether you trust the regulator or not, they do get audited and publish info on their own websites. You literally know what they're doing and how they're doing it and who is checking them. I think there's nothing wrong with healthy skepticism, but this thread is no bastion for quality debate and observation. It's overrun with paranoia, trolls, and ppl solely interested in being toxic and negative simply because they got their ass kicked in a game they truly do not and maybe never will understand

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 28, 2025, 7:07 AM#240

So I asked DeepSeek, "Is it possible to win only 60% of the money you should win based on the poker hand odds over 1000 all in hands." This was its reply. Conclusion - Equal Pots: Winning 60% of the money you "should" win over 1,000 all-ins is effectively impossible unless the game is rigged.

  • Variable Pots: It’s possible but highly unlikely, requiring catastrophic losses in a few large pots where you were a heavy favorite. Final Note: If this result persists, verify your data and/or test the site’s RNG. Over 1,000 all-ins, equity realization should closely align with expectations (within 5-10%).
JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 28, 2025, 11:49 AM#241

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58873928#post58873928)

In fact, you are right. Before any of us show some clear and testable evidence It's rather a useless discussion (like some clever man in the thread said). Your position comes from you are sure - online poker gaming is fair. Since, officially, it's like that, I have got nothing "serious" to contradict you! Your detailed response is interesting to read, actually. And, in general, I agree with you, in case the game is fair. To Amazing 3338. To make this "well-preformed" report for others. You need to do something in Excel with your data. So other guys would manage to see the data. Personally, I understand what you are talking about (i'm a professional insurance risk analyst in the past), but even me would need to check your statistics. To work with it. At the same time, i'm not sure it will help us, because "sceptic" guys will tell you "everything happens, you just got an unlucky wave".

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Jan 28, 2025, 3:13 PM#242

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58874146#post58874146)

So I asked DeepSeek, "Is it possible to win only 60% of the money you should win based on the poker hand odds over 1000 all in hands." This was its reply. Conclusion - Equal Pots: Winning 60% of the money you "should" win over 1,000 all-ins is effectively impossible unless the game is rigged. - Variable Pots: It’s possible but highly unlikely, requiring catastrophic losses... See full post

This is a bunch of nonsense and a sample size of 1000 hands tells you absolutely nothing. This is what I mean by players wholly not understanding variance and wholly not understanding the game of poker. In a recreational player's mind, they think they're entitled to pots (no player is ever entitled to anything, ever, in any hand), and have a perception of what they should or should not win over any given time period that is 1000% divorced from reality Play hundreds of thousands of hands minimum. Analyze the entire history. Share the results. Be prepared to find everything unremarkable

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 28, 2025, 3:50 PM#243

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58874417#post58874417)

Guys, it's not a personal talking, so I feel free to react. TeflonDawg, I totally disagree with you being a professional analyst.

  1. In statistics (in insurance, in finance, social researches, everywhere) we never talk about distance without taking into account chances for the event we observe. This is like some basics of statistics. If an insurance company indicates only five-ten thefts of the same car model in the specific region it will correct insurance rates, or simply refuse voluntary insurance for the model. It's too unprofessional comment from you to ignore this. And Amazing 3338 has already stressed this. You just ignored :P
  2. Amazing3338 says about 1000 allins, it's not a talk about hands in general, it's a talk about "coin flip like events". If you open any book about statistics, the very basic books. You will read there something like 200-300 coin flips is a comprehensive distance to develop most hypothesis. But still, the distance is NEVER considered without taking into account what we see in chances. How many banks should go bankrupt in "Happybanks-city" so you would decide - this town is not the best for investments? 200 thousand banks? There are no so many of them ))
  3. "Play hundreds of thousands of hands minimum". It's time to admit that all the respected and successful offline pro players we like to watch on youtube - are just luckers. Just favorites of variance. Is your point that variance is not applicable to offline poker? Some other hands are played there. No allins, no rivers. No huge pots closer to final tables?
TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Jan 28, 2025, 9:43 PM#244

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58874439#post58874439)

Guys, it's not a personal talking, so I feel free to react.TeflonDawg, I totally disagree with you being a professional analyst.1. In statistics (in insurance, in finance, social researches, everywhere) we never talk about distance without taking into account chances for the event we observe.This is like some basics of statistics. If an insurance company indicates only five-ten... See full post

Live play gives you a tiny sample size to work with because it takes forever to deal cards and moves incredibly slowly When you play online, you can get in 1000+ hands in less than an hour. More if you're just stuck playing people heads up and shorthanded a lot. I would know since I literally do that everyday. It's trivially easy if you're playing multiple tables I say 100k hands because you need a statistically significant sample size. 1000 all-ins won't tell you anything. You're just going to get weird results that tell you to...go get more results lol maybe 10k works...I highly doubt a company auditing a RNG is approaching anything resembling rigorous testing analyzing such small numbers. All-ins or not The game of poker is multi-layered and complex. Whether you're playing .01/.02 or the nosebleeds. As you go up in stakes, the players better understand the game fundamentally and are harder to beat. Nothing changes that no matter how many times you try to assert the games are rigged in some way for the "luckers" whatever that means... Not everyone you watch on YouTube or whatever you're talking about is actually a profitable poker player. Some of them are degenerate gamblers who actually hemorrhage money left and right. Some are very good at keeping up appearances. Some are legit crushers. Whatever nonsense you're making up in your head about them, however, is neither here nor there, as you'd need their entire body of work and tallies in cash games likely never recorded in any way in order to know profit and loss, and especially over a longer time horizon That being said, it should be noted that most players are never going to make a profit. The rake simply makes that a reality, and the competence of your opponents also impact that. The only thing the deal of the cards does is obfuscate the varying gradations of skill each opponent has relative to each other. One player ends up with all the chips after infinite trials. That's what a lot of players don't really comprehend and it causes them to think they're better players than they actually are, or aren't supposed to be losing after any given length of time spent at the tables, live or virtual You and others can spend all the time you want until you're blue in the face about it, but if you aren't making a profit it's because you aren't good enough vs your opponents and the rake's cut out of each pot. There's no way around that. The game is a pure meritocracy. The real problem is people don't look at it as one long infinitely running continuum. They obsess over whether they're up or down that session or day when in reality being up or down is relatively meaningless. That's just a massive psychological hurdle even the GOATiest of GOAT poker players have to navigate. The inexperienced usually just end up lying to themselves or invent any given range of explanations other than the stone cold truth since every human brain has an ego and their own respective indoctrinations...Nobody's "lucking" they just don't get the concept that if you get all-in as a 55% favorite in a $100 pot and win, you didn't really win $50. You risked $50 for a ROI of $5, over and over, forever and ever, until the end of time...IYKYK That's where the psychological hurdles come in. Bc if you lose those same pots the human brain is affected far more than the significance of winning the same pot. That's why people tilt. They can't handle variance. They can't handle the psychologically draining aspect of playing for hours and losing money, even if every significant pot you got the money in +EV. The reactions of players thereof mean absolutely nothing. It's just math and brutal nature of reality. You lose a $100 pot as 55% favorite all you really did was risk $50 for a ROI of $5, over and over, forever and ever, until the end of time...IYKYK

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 28, 2025, 10:16 PM#245

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58874881#post58874881)

Live play gives you a tiny sample size to work with because it takes forever to deal cards and moves incredibly slowlyWhen you play online, you can get in 1000+ hands in less than an hour. More if you're just stuck playing people heads up and shorthanded a lot. I would know since I literally do that everyday. It's trivially easy if you're playing multiple tablesI say 100k hands... See full post

I agree in many aspects of what you said. Let's leave it like that before we get some new info... Who knows, time changes, some people find answers! )) To be fair, when I discuss this stuff with regular players - my friends, I always say "If you win stably, don't change anything, just keep playing!". I'm glad that guys manage to win playing online, that's good, really.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Jan 30, 2025, 5:17 PM#246

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58874439#post58874439)

  1. In statistics (in insurance, in finance, social researches, everywhere) we never talk about distance without taking into account chances for the event we observe.This is like some basics of statistics. If an insurance company indicates only five-ten thefts of the same car model in the specific region it will correct insurance rates, or simply refuse voluntary insurance for t... See full post

And here from that very textbook on statistics.

And the relevant section. If a very large number of such sample means are calculated, what does the probability distribution of their values look like? As shown in figure 6.4 this probability distribution, like the one for sample of size 10, has the same mean as the population and is bell shaped and symmetrical. The most obvious difference between this sampling distribution and the one for samples of size 10 is this distribution's much smaller standard deviation.

Regardless of its mean or standard deviation, the probability that the value of a normal random variable will lie within one standard deviation of its mean is 68.3 percent......within two 95.4%, within three 99.7%. Etcetera, etcetera. But no doubt you will still have people arguing the validity of the mathematics behind statistics, which they have no understanding of.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 30, 2025, 8:32 PM#247

Lol, this is serious, online poker is so dead now... Since we brought some science here 😃

MarkDavisRegular50 posts
Posted Jan 30, 2025, 9:53 PM#248

The Hardly brothers are back, which way are your raging clues pointing?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Jan 30, 2025, 10:22 PM#249

The Hardly brothers are going to open a new era of online poker. Some heads will be taken off in the transition period though...

JohnFishfaceNewbie1 posts
Posted Feb 1, 2025, 5:57 PM#250

Narrator: No new era of online poker was opened. Ugly John and the Amazing Moroni kept posting worthless bs for some time and then disappeared forever, like every other rigtard in the last 20 years.

Bobo FettMicro-Stakes Grinder24 posts
Posted Feb 2, 2025, 10:04 PM#251

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58869925#post58869925)

Are you actually arguing that higher pots don't ensure maximum rake?

Yes, of course, because they don't. by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58869925#post58869925)

Unless the pots all hit or exceed the limit it increases rake. That's basic math.

Well, it is basic, that's for sure. But that's why it has some pretty big flaws. Of course the very basic approach would be to look at a single hand and say that $2 rake is more than $1 rake, so the larger pot is better for the site. However, if a site wants to be more profitable, they're going to look at the bigger picture. I think this example is a good one: by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58871760#post58871760)

If a site rakes at 5% of the pot up to a rake cap of $2, then whether the pot is $40 or $100 the site only receives $2. The recreational player with his weekend $100 might lose his $100 in two HU $100 pots of which only $40 of his money has been raked, him earning the site $2 before he disappears. It's obviously much better for the site if the loser loses five HU $40 pots, when... See full post

Exactly. And even better than that would be if the player swapped those small-mid size pots for a while, resulting in even more rake on that $200. Unfortunately, all you could come up with for a reply was this, which in no way addressed the example: by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58872192#post58872192)

He already admitted most pots are small or medium (not exceeding the rake limit) and if they are currently doing it, the recreational players are still playing.Regardless you can't make a claim and expect it to be taken seriously without any evidence, and neither have actually provided any evidence. Because I say so isn't evidence.

What are you talking about? You've been given a very clear mathematical example above; do you disagree with it? I'm pretty sure that 2 x $2 (rake on two $100 capped pots) = $4, 5 x $2 = $10 (rake on five $40 pots), and $10 is more than $4. by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58872192#post58872192)

As I acknowledged it is a balance, but it is a a balance sites like GG know better than anyone here, and that's not debatable. For example they probably know the average time recreational players play and what they will tolerate losing and still return. And GG also returns the largest portion of their rake-back to losing players which they use to ensure their recreational playe... See full post

Agreed. Well, I don't know who has the highest RB, but if you say it's GG, I'll take your word for it. by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58872192#post58872192)

And I would argue most recreational players don't want to grind so a little more action isn't necessarily a negative for them.

OK, but if it makes the site less money, why would they want that? by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58869925#post58869925)

That's basic math. That fact that GG has increased the rake over the years proves that the game could tolerate a higher rate. That's a fact.

So why don't they just increase the rake some more? Seems like a much simpler approahc than some convoluted rigging scheme, doesn't it? by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58869925#post58869925)

But you pretend that you proved they haven't rigged the game for action with zero evidence and pass it if as logic.

I've not pretended, suggested, or implied any such thing. This all started with a simple question to you when you suggested they had rigged their games with more action hands, and I asked "Why would they skew things to make less money?" You're the one making the claim, which you've not provided any evidence for, and more importantly, you haven't shown how "more action hands" even makes them more money. It's not impossible that it could, but you've yet to provide any solid reasoning for it.

coach999Micro-Stakes Grinder8 posts
Posted Feb 15, 2025, 5:51 PM#252

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58864476#post58864476)

Poker's just not for you guys, move on

you have to be more subtle. Everyone in this thread knows by now that you are a GG Poker shill. Show your GG graph and post your nick so I can look you up or just stfu.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Feb 15, 2025, 10:33 PM#253

by coach999 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58894979#post58894979)

you have to be more subtle. Everyone in this thread knows by now that you are a GG Poker shill. Show your GG graph and post your nick so I can look you up or just stfu.

lol, if you make a claim like that you should read my post history a bit better and you'll see i have a lot of objections with GG They have preflop rake without a flop, they advertise a rakeback which is severely lower due to PVI which you cannot see for yourself, their promos are nowhere near as good as they advertise, i dont like their software, their graphs dont include rake paid which seems very scummy to me and the removal of HS was about the dumbest decision I ever seen a pokerroom make. There is a lot wrong with GG... but its not rigged

Polarbear1955Regular31 posts
Posted Feb 15, 2025, 10:48 PM#254

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58895267#post58895267)

lol, if you make a claim like that you should read my post history a bit better and you'll see i have a lot of objections with GGThey have preflop rake without a flop, they advertise a rakeback which is severely lower due to PVI which you cannot see for yourself, their promos are nowhere near as good as they advertise, i dont like their software, their graphs dont include rake ... See full post

I understand you do not believe it is rigged. Despite your obvious belief that you believing something makes it true you can not prove that. You do not have access to enough information to prove it just as others are also denied access to the information necessary to prove it is rigged. So given they have made it impossible to prove rigged or not what seems most likely to you; the information is hidden because they do not want it to be proven they are honest or the information is hidden because they do not want it proven they are dishonest? Given the number of sites that have been shown to cheat only fools think the default should be to trust them.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Feb 20, 2025, 6:39 PM#255

Guys, I don't know if it's necessary to also post it here. My explanation of what is really going on published on youtube youtu.be/EKvqjXv5hKc (https://www.twoplustwo.com/youtu.be/EKvqjXv5hKc) I made a separated thread in Discussion of poker sites. Hope it will be enough to end the debate in a near future.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Feb 22, 2025, 6:49 PM#257

Johnmir has cracked the code now go print money everybody!

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Feb 23, 2025, 5:15 AM#258

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58901658#post58901658)

Johnmir has cracked the code now go print money everybody!

I'm not sure it's possible... To win playing like that. I will explain my position a bit later. It's too early to discuss, since people do not even understand the hand dealing process.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Feb 23, 2025, 12:29 PM#259

geez what a cliffhanger

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Feb 23, 2025, 12:30 PM#260

if its not possible to win btw, why do you keep on playing?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Feb 23, 2025, 12:48 PM#261

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58902226#post58902226)

if its not possible to win btw, why do you keep on playing?

Is it really important? I think that it's important that 4th biggest poker net controlls profitability of players. Unless online pro players suggest us to play 8 trillion hands more on iPoker and to check if opponent's flop hitting according to a stack of a winning player appear again. Guys, would you like to play 8 trillion hands with all the cards opened to check if loosing player will hit a flop x2 more often then it's expected? I haven't got enough time for this. Slugant, in fact, I play 2-3 times a weak, since i got a sport injury. And you can see that I play 0,5$ buy-in (I played 7$-15$-60$-100$ on PokerStars). I don't play seriously any more, only to spend my time.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Feb 23, 2025, 6:53 PM#262

Normally I wouldn't post just an additional 4000 hands but since someone claimed I wouldn't here it is.

So over those 4000 additional hands my All-In Adjusted Differential increased over 1000000 chips, which is astonishing because during those approximately 40 additional tournaments I finished 3rd once and 4th once. So over 1187 all in hands where my equity was greater than 0% and less that 100% I won 49.33% of my EV. Now when I asked DeepSeek "What is the probability of only winning 49.33% of your expected value in chips over 1187 all-in hands played over 400 tournaments of hold'em poker", this was its reply.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Feb 24, 2025, 7:15 AM#263

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58902568#post58902568)

40 additional tournaments I finished 3rd once and 4th once

Man, after I realized how the worlds biggest poker room deals hands, I tried to use it on a low limit, to check, how it works. I lost 42 SnG (1,5$/45 players/NLH) in a row. No any prizes (7 places paid of 45) hit in 42 tries. My average ITM on these tournaments was 20%. A chance not to hit prizes 42 times in a row having average ITM=20% are 0,0085%. And it happens once in 400 000 tournaments. What about this one? Why - software simply blocks winning which exceeds an "acceptable" limit for a player according to his activity in the room (number of tables played)/bankroll amount/transaction history. I will publish one more video after people finally realize that online poker gaming is a sequence of predictable positive and negative push-fold hands/posflop combinations. You play SnG. You started with an allin - AAvs55 (80%), you will get "Top pair flopped vs a set flopped" on a buble. If you understand the software logic, you fold this top pair and join prizes. You get prizes 5 of 10 tournaments like that (50% ITM on a short distance), then you lose every (!) allin on a final (top 9 players, but still no prize)/prefinal table during the next 40+ tournaments. PS. Guys, before i withdrawn funds from Pokerstars account, my 7$ SnG (72 players in average - late reg is available) ITM was 23%. After withdrawing money i stopped winning (18% ITM) and played 1,5$ SnG 45 players. And my ITM there - 14%. Of course it's not that statistics for iPoker, that commercial algorithm shows once in 8,5 trillion hands in average behavior. But it's still interesting.

iF5Newbie3 posts
Posted Feb 24, 2025, 9:47 AM#264

Did Monteroy pass away? Almost 17k posts and the Daddy of the Riggie thread and he just suddenly vanished off 2p2 in 2023. He lived here

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Feb 25, 2025, 7:06 AM#265

Guy, I'm trying to explain it different ways.

Here is a record of my premium hands, pocket top pairs, top pairs flopped. Situation. You got AJo+ and at the end of the hand, you saw that your opponent got a better hand (88+, AQo+). You can push any next 88+/AJo+ hand and it will be the best on the table. You can check this. If you just played a premium hand, and this hand was not the best on the table, then the next one will be the best in 95% cases. Just upload here two premium hands in a row "killed" by a better hand on the table. (Yeah, a chance to got beaten by a better preflop hand having, for example, AKo is 35%. Not 95%.)

4cardfishNewbie3 posts
Posted Feb 25, 2025, 3:46 PM#266

LOL the amount of time and effort that Johnimir and Amazing3338 put into their conspiracy is hilarious but also quite sad

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Feb 25, 2025, 4:12 PM#267

Thank you, man. In fact, yes. I'm not kidding, i'm sad I had to waste so much time for this. More then that. I don't even play online seriously (haven't played something serious for 3 years already...) But, understanding the situation, how many people was and are fooled. And how hard it is to prove the game is not random, I had to take part in all this and analyze the game, just to contribute something... Generally, yes, it's a time waste. I'm not going to be in this for too long actually, I will just try to share how it works. Some guys will understand also (like those, who played with me and saw everything with their own eyes). I'm also glad many people who played with me on one table stopped playing, I managed to show them what is going on just showing my every hand. They realized it's not really a poker game in general. So I wouldn't say I didn't manage anything. At the same time, i wanna coach tennis, work with people. So, guys, i won't bother you for too long. P.S. By the way. While i was playing in iPoker, many guys, who saw that i show every valuable hand after a game cone, realized, that a card dealing process in iPoker is simply crazy. And they started to show every valuable hand too. And during many SnGs 6 max we saw - all the hands of players opened each game cone! And the dealing process is simply and acrade game. Poker rooms use that we don't see each other's hands badly. And the game looks really random (somehow random) when we don't see opponent's hands.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Feb 25, 2025, 4:57 PM#268

but who killed JFK?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Feb 25, 2025, 5:01 PM#269

It's the second research in my "to do" list!

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 1, 2025, 1:16 PM#270

You call yourself an expert level poker player.... how come? You also said you havent played seriously in years and you play freebies on GG. But even before that you were never a force to be reckoned with at lowstakes+ Also you said this in the comment section of your own video: "Although I don’t even play online poker for any significant amount, I have no goal of winning online poker" That doesnt really align with the moniker of Expert poker player, how come you call yourself that? Is it maybe because you are delusional or are you an expert poker player when you can show a flop where your A7o is outflopped by 96o?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 1, 2025, 1:29 PM#271

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58908512#post58908512)

You call yourself an expert level poker player.... how come?You also said you havent played seriously in years and you play freebies on GG. But even before that you were never a force to be reckoned with at lowstakes+ Also you said this in the comment section of your own video: "Although I don’t even play online poker for any significant amount, I have no goal of winning online... See full post

I suggest to discuss the topic, any comments about statistical research? Do you agree with the results of it?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 1, 2025, 1:48 PM#272

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58908512#post58908512)

You call yourself an expert level poker player.... how come?You also said you havent played seriously in years and you play freebies on GG. But even before that you were never a force to be reckoned with at lowstakes+ Also you said this in the comment section of your own video: "Although I don’t even play online poker for any significant amount, I have no goal of winning ... See full post

Okay, I answer, so you could relax. "Expert poker player" - is some characteristic that is mentioned to let players of any level understand - they can discuss any theory/practice aspects with me. So that, they feel free to speak fluently. You saw my speech in the chat, you see i'm "at least confident". Personally - you don't know me. This is an "official" preamble. You don't need to pay attention to this, cause we discuss totally different topic about a software and a statistics of the game. Most part (80% people - already tested, it's an official information) don't even pay attention to this, cause it's simply not important because we are not going to play poker. Same as me, it's not really important who i am, it's important what I really show and say in a concrete dialog.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 1, 2025, 4:46 PM#273

its kinda important who you are, or what you are... which in this case is delusional because of that you think you have done serious statistical research, which you have not. Its a bunch of incoherent rambling and I suggest you seek help before things spiral out of control.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 1, 2025, 9:01 PM#274

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58908663#post58908663)

its kinda important who you are, or what you are... which in this case is delusional because of that you think you have done serious statistical research, which you have not. Its a bunch of incoherent rambling and I suggest you seek help before things spiral out of control.

Do you mean there is no connection between my stack size and my opponents flop hitting frequency? It's interesting what other guys think.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 2, 2025, 12:15 AM#275

TELL US MOAR

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 2, 2025, 6:34 AM#276

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58909154#post58909154)

TELL US MOAR

Sure! 😀 What do you think about this one? (All the cards are opened, i DID open my opponent's cards, because in a normal poker game, you can't see what software DOES on a postflop - cards of your opponent are HIDDEN in a normal game)

Cyclicity of opponent's flop hitting

Conclusion What do you think about this one? I mean - when we don't see cards of players, software just put our opponent into a flop combinations pair or better

  • when our starter is "good"! - And the software DOES NOT put our opponent into a flop combinations pair or better (not to ruin flop hitting frequency > 32,4%!)
  • when our starter is "bad"! -
SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 2, 2025, 12:45 PM#277

Since self-made excel sheets are apparently evidence, how about this shocking stat...

Thats some solid evidence you are actually 100% wrong right there.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 2, 2025, 1:42 PM#278

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58909541#post58909541)

Since self-made excel sheets are apparently evidence, how about this shocking stat...Thats some solid evidence you are actually 100% wrong right there.... See full post

Haha, great work btw, but where are borders and colors? Would be more comfortable to watch. Man, you saw this phrase in my message : "I'm an expert level poker player and, also, a professional financial risk analyst (insurance) in the past." But how did you miss this one? "I find it important that you, guys, should be able to work with all the materials I provide for your overview. Here is a link to a google drive (link below) where you can find:

  1. A text version of the video in ENG/RUS (MS Excel format)
  2. The statistics in MS Excel format, very comfortable to work with, to watch hands, to check anything you would like to
  3. A detailed description of the software algorithm (Ipoker net, Red Star Poker room)
  4. A copy of the main youtube video
  5. Some other materials/documents which are necessary to be presented in this kind of situations drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FfwlH8R7nBEODKlpcUgsGmyH6qjkis9z?usp=drive_link Look at that: "Video-evidence of sit-out hands played in Red Star Poker room". A record of every hand from iPoker client program
SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 2, 2025, 4:02 PM#279

I'm not going to download something from a lunatic like yourself, next thing the boards are rigged against me as well😉

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 2, 2025, 10:33 PM#280

This is so interesting guys I'm learning a lot

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 3, 2025, 6:56 AM#281

Okay, good. Guys, for people who can read (we all can read since we are 5 years old 😃, you know), but also can Understand, what they read - those tables above looks pretty strange. Looks like the software tries to make two players totally equal on a heads up game to convert their money into the room's commission, right? (winning a game one by one to commission melt down) So I open sit-out hands. Guys - once I open hands of my opponent because Playtech PLC (the developer and the owner of iPoker) decided not too "auto-fold" sit-out hands (a mistake of programmers. Flutter Entertainment PLC - the developer and the owner of Pokerstars - BLOCKs a possibility to see a hand of your opponent being in a sit-out mode) I see the following stuff:

The question is - Is it normal, that once I opened hands of my opponent by luck (he went sit-out during the game) and he HITS 9 of 11 FLOPS? In stead of 32% expected? Any ideas?

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 3, 2025, 12:45 PM#282

my idea is that a sample size of 11 wouldnt hold up in court

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 3, 2025, 5:09 PM#283

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58908959#post58908959)

Do you mean there is no connection between my stack size and my opponents flop hitting frequency?It's interesting what other guys think.... See full post

Against two connected cards (J 10) I calculate the opponent's 181 hands at 80% or higher are connecting within 2.28 standard deviations from the mean (~88 to 1). Against suited connectors just slightly above 2 (~48 to 1).

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 3, 2025, 5:56 PM#284

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58910756#post58910756)

my idea is that a sample size of 11 wouldnt hold up in court

Agree here. Ok, if I play and watch every game cone - did my opponent hit the flop? This is how it looks (just an example!) something like a random flop hitting: Did he hit the flop? yes - no - no - no - yes - yes - no - yes - no - no - no - yes - no - no - no - no - yes - yes - no ... and so on Guys, this is how it looks if I open those hands (where i managed to hack the soft of Ipoker - check sit-out hands) Did the opponent hit the flop? [heads up game started BB = 20 to 40 chips] no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-[the game goes, I have got a huge stack and going to win soon, BB = 50 to 100 chips already] yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes Lol... This hero-opp starts to hit the flop in a crazy way once BB became bigger. So - what are the chances to see such a variance (deviations of the mean 32,4%, you know) of the flop hitting frequency on a 500 flops distance. I just watch which "splashes" and "decreases" of the flop hitting do I see on the distance (on low BBs - a decrease, the opponent does not hit anything. On big BBs - he hits like a crazy animal - a splash appears) Here these splashes are:

Guys, we see 10 huge waves 😮 on a 500 flops distance. A chance to get at least one of these 10 (!) waves you see in the column named "Chances of the wave to appear". Do you see the first one (Wave 1)? The opponent hits 8 flops of 12 (66,7%). Chances to meet this stuff are 21,5%. [To be more precise - This wave of flop hitting frequency dispersion happens on a distance of 431 flop in 21,5% cases] BUT. We got on the same distance as many as 10 waves SIMULTANEOUSLY. What are the chances to get 10 such deviations of 32,4% on the same distance. In simple terms, it's 21,5% * 58,4% (watch wave #2 data) * 47,0% * 15,8% * 8,5% * 48,0% * 10,0% * 26,3% * 20,2% * 8,7% = 0,000021% or once in 5 000 000 of 500 flops reshuffled. Means - such a statistical hell 😵 (such a significant opponent's flop hitting frequency deviation on a distance of 500 flops) happens once in 2,5 billion hands (5 000 000 * 500). Let's stop here? Any questions. Are additional comments necessary? Well, guys, you can misunderstand something, it's normal, since you see this the first time?

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 3, 2025, 5:58 PM#285

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58910972#post58910972)

Against two connected cards (J 10) I calculate the opponent's 181 hands at 80% or higher are connecting within 2.28 standard deviations from the mean (~88 to 1). Against suited connectors just slightly above 2 (~48 to 1).

I'm assuming this is all in preflop and only one opponent continued.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 3, 2025, 6:10 PM#286

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58910972#post58910972)

Against two connected cards (J 10) I calculate the opponent's 181 hands at 80% or higher are connecting within 2.28 standard deviations from the mean (~88 to 1). Against suited connectors just slightly above 2 (~48 to 1).

Do you mean preflop dealing process, or the flop hitting? Against our connectors?

  1. Preflop hand dealing/flop hitting (32,4%)?
  2. You watch my hand/opp hand?
  3. Hand range JTo, T9o, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o, 54o, 43o (and "suited" hands, another check)?
  4. Stack size 80%, i see (I didn't manage to filter this in "HU sit out RS data" sheet to get 181 hand)
Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 3, 2025, 6:30 PM#287

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58911038#post58911038)

Do you mean preflop dealing process, or the flop hitting? Against our connectors?

  1. Preflop hand dealing/flop hitting (32,4%)?
  2. You watch my hand/opp hand?
  3. Hand range JTo, T9o, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o, 54o, 43o (and "suited" hands, another check)?
  4. Stack size 80%, i see (I didn't manage to filter this in "HU sit out RS data" sheet to get 181 hand)

The only way you see your opponent's cards is if you go to showdown. So if this isn't all in preflop typically most players who didn't hit a pair or a draw would fold to a bet and you would get a disproportionate number of hands at showdown who hit the flop.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 3, 2025, 6:43 PM#288

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58911070#post58911070)

The only way you see your opponent's cards is if you go to showdown. So if this isn't all in preflop typically most players who didn't hit a pair or a draw would fold to a bet and you would get a disproportionate number of hands at showdown who hit the flop.

Yes, you are totally right. But, the problem is that my opponent was "sit-out" (you know, my opponent has left PC). I just checked the flop - he auto-checked back, I checked the turn - he auto-checked back the turn, I checked the river - he auto-checked back the the river, Man. This would be right in my situation if I only saw SOME flops which went to showdown - then, yes - he will usually come to a showdown been hited the flop. But in my case I can see EVERY flop, every turn, and every river. Each game cone. So I can reasonably check, how often and when does my opponent hits the flop. And once I managed to open hands in iPoker - i see that the software deals as many "good" flops for my opponent as he needs to get his stack back. And software simply ruins a flop hitting frequency on high BBs in a crazy way. And this fits to the aim of the room's owner - maximize the commission. Software tries to help the opp to win the game. In case we play and i win all the games - the room gets (for example we play 1$ Heads-up and my opponent got 20$ bankroll) 2$ (prize poo) * 10% (commission of the room) * 20 games = 4$ But if the software manages to equalize our game and to let us win one by one we lose all the money been melt down to a commission. 200 games of a draw (100-100) = 40$ income as a commission for the room. 10 times more income (40$ and 4$). And the software tries to reach this aim by dealing him "good" flops. It could only happen randomly once in 8,5 trillion game cones. Pure rigging of the game for the extra profit of the room.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 4, 2025, 12:44 AM#289

You've cracked the case!

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 4, 2025, 4:08 AM#290

I once had a person who worked for a site I forget which one could have been bovada tell me something. I was complaining that people hit too many flops and he said yes true but if the site did not make that happen the game would be boring and people would play less. I also used to prop games for one of the site not in business now. When I prop I have to be in touch with site cuz they tell u what tables to go to. The guy who worked at the site said after the stuff he seen working there he would never play online poker.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 4, 2025, 5:14 PM#291

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58911566#post58911566)

I once had a person who worked for a site I forget which one could have been bovada tell me something. I was complaining that people hit too many flops and he said yes true but if the site did not make that happen the game would be boring and people would play less. I also used to prop games for one of the site not in business now. When I prop I have to be in touch with site cu... See full post

I would agree most recreational players want more action. Playing live only until recently, I know that's the biggest mistake recreational players make, playing too many hands. And I'm sure those who play primarily online have that problem too when they play live. The second reason is to finish the tournament in a reasonable time. How many are willing to play 12 hours straight? Not many recreational players are willing to do that especially on a regular basis. And when you have 1500 - 2000 entrees it going to be a long tournament. 150 player tournaments at Aria and Venetian take 10 to 12 hours and I don't believe online poker deals 10 times more hands in a given time.

ejames209Micro-Stakes Grinder12 posts
Posted Mar 4, 2025, 7:00 PM#292

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58911015#post58911015)

[heads up game started BB = 20 to 40 chips] no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-[the game goes, I have got a huge stack and going to win soon, BB = 50 to 100 chips already] yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes

Wow.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 4, 2025, 8:55 PM#293

by ejames209 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58912304#post58912304)

Wow.

It's not literally like that, but you can see it's too rare not to inform Gambling supervision authorities. Once we managed to open hands and to see that we don't see in a normal game (we just fold before a showdown) - it shows pure rigging of the game. Well, I described all the algorithm of the software, but it will take some time before enough people understand what's going on. The only way to stop the fraud faster - Curacao/The UK/Russia block iPoker. In case they decide to "skip" my materials this is a sign of that online-gambling market is totally unregulated. And it's unacceptable. But I did all i could, guys. I can't do more.

MarkDavisRegular50 posts
Posted Mar 4, 2025, 9:22 PM#294

Do you think the insurance market is rigged? Btw what happens when you make online poker illegal. Everyone stops playing, right? £2.7bn -£4.1bn reasons why that's wrong.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 4, 2025, 9:33 PM#295

by MarkDavis m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58912474#post58912474)

Do you think the insurance market is rigged? Btw what happens when you make online poker illegal. Everyone stops playing, right? £2.3bn reasons why that's wrong.

Well, look. The insurance market in Russia was rigged, yes ))) They say, huge financial organizations in Russia used insurance companies for money laundering. I don't know what is going on nowadays though. Regarding online-poker. People who lose money, will find the way to lose it. Yes, some people will keep playing. But it's important to save lifetime of that part of players - who could find better ways to live their lifes. Important : Not Everyone would waste his life and money in online-poker in case he knew the game is rigged. Me personally - I try to help these people, cause i was one of them. I managed to stop a life waste in time, but i still lost some years of my active life for this.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 1:14 AM#296

Save us all! You are saving lives!

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 8:15 AM#297

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58912744#post58912744)

Save us all! You are saving lives!

TeflonDawg... We have already discussed that.

  1. We don't need to save regular players, they do win. It's all good. And what's bad in that you win? Nothing. That is why rigging is good for you. And here, on the forum, it's not forbidden to be agreed with rigging. All the regular players can just type (look, i type what i want btw, it's easy!) - "ONLINE POKER IS RANDOM AND IS FAIR". Sign. THAT is WHY - I sent it to gambling supervisors. There is no need to discuss with guys, who win money playing rigged game, if they agree with this. It's not reasonable to ask!
  2. I do not save lives. I try to save lifetime. It's different 😀
SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 12:33 PM#298

save your breath

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 1:41 PM#299

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58913085#post58913085)

save your breath

Man 😉 Mike can't describe Every topic on the forum to keep it's context. I will try to explain you. Look at the thread's name - "The great Poker is rigged debate" 😀 What are people supposed to post here?

  1. Facts of rigging the game (evidence)
  2. Rare cases/hands to draw attention of players to a specific behavior of the software
  3. Statistics of the game showing dependencies in card dealing process (proofs, calculations, etc)
  4. Methods of rigging the game, and thoughts about the scheme of possible gambling fraud. Let's check your latest ideas/messages: a) "poker is not for you, guys, move on" b) "wait.. if you are 100% sure GG is rigged.. why do you keep playing there? are you delusional?" c) "if its not possible to win btw, why do you keep on playing?" d) "but who killed JFK?" e) "You call yourself an expert level poker player.... how come?" f) "Its a bunch of incoherent rambling and I suggest you seek help before things spiral out of control." But, personally, I like reading your posts
jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 1:56 PM#300

See the problem becomes I do not think it's rigged. But when you ask any sight about their dealing they always say it's fair, they never say it's random. And this is how they get around it. So for example if I deal you pocket aces more often than you should get it there's no problem with that as long as I deal everybody else the same amount of times. I mean if one guy is getting pocket aces way more often than everybody else then there could be a problem. So then when their site gets audited they go well it's fair even though everybody's getting pocket aces more often than they should it's still Fair as long as everybody's getting that. And by the way yes insurance is rigged

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 2:36 PM#301

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821569#post58821569)

This has been discussed a few times in this thread since 2017. Search the thread for posts with "issuu" in them.

Mike... Look at that, this man shows something that happens once in 100 million hands! I show something that happens one in 8,5 trillion! 100 000 000 hands vs 8 500 000 000 000 flops (hands) Lol... You kidding me guys. I though that was serious. I mean, he made a good job, but i'm talking about PURE rigging of the game. Something simply obvious and seen with eyes, without even calculating!

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 4:09 PM#302

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58913120#post58913120)

Let's check your latest ideas/messages:a) "poker is not for you, guys, move on"b) "wait.. if you are 100% sure GG is rigged.. why do you keep playing there? are you delusional?"c) "if its not possible to win btw, why do you keep on playing?"d) "but who killed JFK?"e) "You call yourself an expert level poker player.... how come?"f) "Its a bunch of incoherent rambling and I sugge... See full post

c'mon man, you forgot my best post which still holds up by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58909541#post58909541)

Since self-made excel sheets are apparently evidence, how about this shocking stat...Thats some solid evidence you are actually 100% wrong right there.... See full post

ejames209Micro-Stakes Grinder12 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 5:00 PM#303

Im very thankful that the site operators on the site I play online poker on were gracious enough to allow me to win. I feel bad for everyone they chose to rig poker against

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 6:42 PM#304

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58912996#post58912996)

TeflonDawg... We have already discussed that.1. We don't need to save regular players, they do win. It's all good. And what's bad in that you win? Nothing. That is why rigging is good for you. And here, on the forum, it's not forbidden to be agreed with rigging. All the regular players can just type (look, i type what i want btw, it's easy!) - "ONLINE POKER IS RANDOM AND IS FAI... See full post

Doing yeoman's work! Now go run your robust and compelling experiments on all the other sites plz!

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 10:35 PM#306

by ejames209 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58913329#post58913329)

Im very thankful that the site operators on the site I play online poker on were gracious enough to allow me to win. I feel bad for everyone they chose to rig poker against

Thank you, man (if you are serious). I mean this is really good reaction of mentally healthy person to admit that the fraud is really possible. The best you can say to a player "Man, i'm winning, and the game looks random to me, but in case you got involved to a fraud, it's really pity". Poker community is simply crazy, lol. I know the game is rigged and I tell guys, who win rigged game - "Guys, it's cool you win, really. You shouldn't change anything. At least someone wins!" They answer "You are idiot, you dunno how to play". So awful. Really. In fact it's just disappointing. I mean we won't stop this wars and misunderstandings in the international society since huge part of people behave like that.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 5, 2025, 10:38 PM#307

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58913490#post58913490)

Doing yeoman's work! Now go run your robust and compelling experiments on all the other sites plz!

Too much life waste, man. I think i did my job just describing the software algorithm of 90% online rooms and sent proofs to Supervisors. Starting from this time more and more people will start to understand how it works. It's hard to find, but very easy to understand the description.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 6, 2025, 1:00 PM#308

Are you an alter ego of Paisting or just related?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 6, 2025, 9:03 PM#309

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58914341#post58914341)

Are you an alter ego of Paisting or just related?

Guys, can you explain me who is Paisting? Seriously - I don't know this, sorry Am i right he is some guy, who lost crazy amount of money playing online?

Tiltboy311Newbie3 posts
Posted Mar 6, 2025, 9:15 PM#310

No one can convince me Betonline isn't rigged. Variance is a thing but seeing constant 1 in a million situations every time you play is crazy. I've been playing for about a week no 10nl boost and the exact same players are constantly seeing these situations. My AK vs QQ 3x against the same player having flopped nut straight to them hitting runner runner house. 2 hands later QQ v KK same ****ing player. 10 hands later another player AA vs J9 they hit trips. These are CRAZY situations to see in poker on their own individually. To see them happen CONSISTENTLY over and over every single I play is unfathomable.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 6, 2025, 10:32 PM#311

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58914947#post58914947)

Guys, can you explain me who is Paisting? Seriously - I don't know this, sorry

cmon John, you're an elite player and analyst. You can figure out how to use the 2+2 search engine or google "paisting"

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 7, 2025, 4:10 PM#313

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58915074#post58915074)

cmon John, you're an elite player and analyst. You can figure out how to use the 2+2 search engine or google "paisting"

In fact, i have never read forums. The fun is that, i was reading Sklansky's and Malmuth's books, but i'm really new on ANY forums... I haven't EVER posted anything before 😃

Tiltboy311Newbie3 posts
Posted Mar 7, 2025, 9:11 PM#314

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58915736#post58915736)

What you describe (the gameplay) is very similar to Ipoker also. I haven't ever seen that on Pokerstars or Party, but Ipoker does really put VS the same player under domination. From the same positions. Again and again. It's crazy, because it's "visible" for players. Pokerstars and Party's gameplays are much more "natural"

It gets even better. I ended up getting quads 3x with 1 being for bad beat jackpot. https://youtube.com/shorts/PWu3cl1Hu08?s... (https://youtube.com/shorts/PWu3cl1Hu08?si=BfFmV8VAHyxeARTv)

Tiltboy311Newbie3 posts
Posted Mar 9, 2025, 9:13 AM#316

Lol that's how betonline is on phone. You know what's absolutely insane though? I hit quads 4x that night w 1 being for BBJ. I also lost KK to AA and AK to AA all in preflop. The odds of that session happening are 1 in 134 trillion. No other human in history will ever experience it. It's absolutely insane and that's not even all the crazy **** I saw. They won't allow me to download my hand history however which really ****ing sucks bc I would pay to have someone run it through some software and find all the astronomical **** I saw that night. I'm still flabbergasted

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2025, 12:32 AM#318

Brand new information!

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2025, 7:24 PM#319

by Tiltboy311 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58917536#post58917536)

They won't allow me to download my hand history however which really ****ing sucks bc I would pay to have someone run it through some software and find all the astronomical **** I saw that night.

When they restrict your access to your hand histories it's very suspicious. When I decided to review my 2023 and beginning of 2024 hands because of too many unbelievable outcomes I found out GGPoker only let you download the last 3 months. In 2024 I am only winning 49.33% of my EV and I think 2023 was worse. Hitting four of a kind is approximately 2500 to 1 assuming you have a pocket pair. Without a pocket pair approximately 100000 to 1. To calculate the actual probability you need to know how many hands were played but even if it was 100 that's approximately 18 standard deviations from the mean. So something like 1 followed by 100 zeros to 1, or something like that. In other words, impossible.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2025, 9:01 PM#320

It was comfortable to prepare my research, cause, fortunately, iPoker allows you to watch any statistics of previous years. It's good, cause after leaving Pokerstars my Holdem manager 2 stoped working properly.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2025, 9:13 PM#321

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58919051#post58919051)

When they restrict your access to your hand histories it's very suspicious. When I decided to review my 2023 and beginning of 2024 hands because of too many unbelievable outcomes I found out GGPoker only let you download the last 3 months. In 2024 I am only winning 49.33% of my EV and I think 2023 was worse. Hitting four of a kind is approximately 2500 to 1 assuming you have a ... See full post

If you truly believe this, then I'd try to get a hold of someone who has a large enough database of hands to analyze, and correctly. I'm still pretty sure you and Johnmir basically don't know what you're doing and getting weird results because you don't know what you're doing and/or aren't looking at enough hands. And that's aside from the fact that it seems you're both openly admitting you think certain sites are rigged and yet, you're still playing on those sites, which makes you look like a pair of morons. You two are not exactly building credibility coming on here for months at a time and literally just complaining and saying the same thing over and over...It makes you look looney Regardless, there is a poster on here, named "Josem" I think. He played an invaluable part in uncovering the AP and UB cheating scandals (note: it also proved the sites weren't rigging the RNG shown through proper analysis I believe). Maybe DM him for help or guidance? In all honesty, seek a professional in the poker community to "peer review" the work

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 10, 2025, 9:57 PM#322

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58919192#post58919192)

If you truly believe this, then I'd try to get a hold of someone who has a large enough database of hands to analyze, and correctly. I'm still pretty sure you and Johnmir basically don't know what you're doing and getting weird results because you don't know what you're doing and/or aren't looking at enough hands. And that's aside from the fact that it seems you're both openly ... See full post

I wasn't going to calculate the odds for 4 quads because I know the odds of hitting quads 4 times a one session is astronomical. So yes the numbers on this are not accurate, but it doesn't change the fact the odds are astronomical. As far as what I posted, I posted my results, how to calculate the odds based on statistics (directly from the textbook) and what the AI models have said. Here is what you guys have said, you need 200000 hands and as I predicted you are still claiming that. That's BS and I proved it. You are just not man enough to admit it because clearly your level of mathematics is algebra.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 11, 2025, 10:40 AM#323

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58919192#post58919192)

If you truly believe this, then I'd try to get a hold of someone who has a large enough database of hands to analyze, and correctly. I'm still pretty sure you and Johnmir basically don't know what you're doing and getting weird results because you don't know what you're doing and/or aren't looking at enough hands. And that's aside from the fact that it seems you're both openly ... See full post

  1. "I'm still pretty sure you and Johnmir basically don't know what you're doing" - Look, do you really understand my analysis?
  2. Which hands do I exclude in the analysis?
  3. Which criterions do I use and is it acceptable to use it to border data for the research?
  4. Who does decide the significance of the distance and decide an acceptable probability for the variance registered? If you say "i'm sure you both don't know what you are doing" tell us if you got basic stuff of my position. I'm looking forward for the comments, man ��
  5. "aren't looking at enough hands" Look, I have got a comprehensive analysis of Pokerstars and Partypoker's stats based on 50 000+ hands. But i decided to close this scam starting from iPoker with 500 hands only. a) If you flip a coin 100 times, but get only 20 tails - it's a huge reason to change the coin.

Why - the answer is on the picture above. b) If you or any player gets 30 AA's in a row in any room - it will be closed. At least, officially. Since it's about absolutely incredible deviation. No one will EVER believe this is random. So, there are two cases: A) You are not competent enough in questions of variance, do not understand what I nor Amazing are talking about (how would you comment the distance without taking into account the event's probability?) B) You win, and this information is not profitable for you 3. "you're both openly admitting you think certain sites are rigged and yet, you're still playing on those sites" a) I have already explained guys Many times. I did play on iPoker - ONLY to analyze the software. I have no other reasons to play rigged game. (Except time killing, may be) b) Amazing is probably playing because he believes they will let him win some ROI, may be 20%-30%, and it's not bad. My opinion - it's a risk of a time waste in case he doesn't start to play more tables to increase his luck-factor in game 4. "just complaining" Personally, i do not complain, cause i do not try to win online. I have no reasons to complain. I want to stop fooling of people, because i understand the problem. 5. "Maybe DM him for help or guidance?" All the analysis is professionally prepared (i'm not some amateur analyst) and has already sent to supervisors. Looks, like you didn't read attentively. They are ALREADY considering the information. Some of them has ALREADY considered it. 6. "seek a professional in the poker community to "peer review" the work" This comment is actually rational and thank you for this. In fact, I don't think that any pro player would manage to reach something here without a significant stat. analysis. I don't think we need a "player" we do need a professional analyst here. And we got it. It's me, man, hi there! ))

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 11, 2025, 3:20 PM#324

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58919255#post58919255)

I wasn't going to calculate the odds for 4 quads because I know the odds of hitting quads 4 times a one session is astronomical. So yes the numbers on this are not accurate, but it doesn't change the fact the odds are astronomical.As far as what I posted, I posted my results, how to calculate the odds based on statistics (directly from the textbook) and what the AI models have ... See full post

Do you understand what "peer review" means? by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58919817#post58919817)

  1. "I'm still pretty sure you and Johnmir basically don't know what you're doing" - Look, do you really understand my analysis?1. Which hands do I exclude in the analysis?2. Which criterions do I use and is it acceptable to use it to border data for the research?3. Who does decide the significance of the distance and decide an acceptable probability for the variance registered?... See full post

Same question by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58919835#post58919835)

This is about a simple logic, Amazing. I mean, it's not about maths actually.If you forgot your keys in the house 3 times in a row - it's not about an accident. It's about "something else takes too much of your attention when you leave home". Only 3 times is enough to understand what to do and to change the "priority". But Teflon Dawg suggest you to keep moving, "just play" he ... See full post

Your analysis of statistics is cool and all, but isn't particularly interesting to me. What it looks like to me is that both of you are performing flawed experiments in different ways and then obsessively posting about it here. Amazing even mentions using AI to assist and his own post referring to DeepSeek literally says it's possible the experiment/analysis is flawed Hence the suggestion of peer review. If your response to me really is that you're experts and don't need it, well, alrighty then...Have fun never being taken seriously (not that I mind, this thread is pure comedy at this point) by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58919923#post58919923)

On the biggest russian poker forum we got new topic in a "news" section. Some team performed an analysis (it's pretty known research) about "skill" and "luck" role in a poker game.Famous players refer to this analysis. And one of them is Maria Konnikova, known female player from Pokerstar's team.The result of the research is poker game is based on a skill 56% vs luck factor 44%... See full post

Not sure what the point of this post is, but yes, poker is a skill game, with skill levels among participants obfuscated by luck I don't particularly care what the %s are or if they are even truly quantifiable to an exact %. A HU match between two highly skilled players aren't going to see very many showdowns compared to, say, a microstakes game where half the table isn't even playing fundamentally correct poker in any particular regard...It's kind of why a lot of people go on here to complain. The variance is higher when opponents play more cards, raise more pots, and refuse to anything other than see the river. They can't handle stuff like that emotionally even though those players are literally free money. Either that or they simply don't have or understand the importance of bankroll management, nor the discipline to do it properly

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 11, 2025, 3:45 PM#325

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58920004#post58920004)

Do you understand what "peer review" means?Same questionYour analysis of statistics is cool and all, but isn't particularly interesting to me. What it looks like to me is that both of you are performing flawed experiments in different ways and then obsessively posting about it here. Amazing even mentions using AI to assist and his own post referring to DeepSeek literally says i... See full post

Thank you for the opinion, by the way. I wanted you to see, that they performed the research basing on 277 hands only... 😀 And it's simply crazy in my opinion. Because they assess luck/skill influence on all the stages - preflop, flop, turn and river. There are a huge number of different gaming situations there, and they only take 277 hands! In my opinion, it's a mistake. But if they try to explain a low ROI level of online players like that - why not? )) That's why a room's representative uses this research in her speech. "Hence the suggestion of peer review. If your response to me really is that you're experts and don't need it, well, alrighty then...Have fun never being taken seriously (not that I mind, this thread is pure comedy at this point)" I don't think it's actually possible some of known experts will go to approve such kind of research, you know. Irrespectively of it's significance. The topic is too "dangerous" for the reputation. But me personally, I paid attention to your idea. I got it.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 11, 2025, 3:50 PM#326

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58919817#post58919817)

a) If you flip a coin 100 times, but get only 20 tails - it's a huge reason to change the coin. ... See full post

That's 6 standard deviations from the mean and you can see the odds here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_d... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation) And for those who don't know how to calculate standard deviation, for any coin flip type events you can calculate the standard deviation using this formula, σ = √(n * p * (1-p)), where σ is the standard deviation, n is the number of coin flips, p is the probability of getting heads and (1-p) is the probability of getting tails. This works for any coin flip type event and you can determine the odds by the number of standard deviations from the mean (up to 6 standard deviations). If anyone doesn't believe it Google it or ask Deepseek or Chat GPT.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 11, 2025, 5:13 PM#327

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58920047#post58920047)

That's 6 standard deviations from the mean and you can see the odds here.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_d... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation)And for those who don't know how to calculate standard deviation, for any coin flip type events you can calculate the standard deviation using this formula, σ = √(n * p * (1-p)), where σ is the standard deviation, n is the number of coin flips... See full post

Thank you for the link/comment! It was a special case... When I managed to calculate this stuff with a help of computer modeling (wave effects of my opponent's flop hitting). I had to waste some time to find a way to assess "how often does it happen in average". So after I got 0,0000000035% chances to deviate (not from the mean but... well, it's a complex stuff) from a normal RNG behavior, i had to assess an average distance. So I got this 8 500 000 000 000 hands distance for the variance to repeat in average approximately. It's a special calculation. Otherwise, Gambling authorities would probably understand the proof, but the public - won't get it. 8,5 trillion is something you can communicate to people. But 0,0000000035% - is something you can't explain, lol.

tank mageMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Mar 14, 2025, 6:36 PM#328

johnmir, have you performed any analysis or planning to do so on large any sites like gg poker or pokerstars? also did your analysis show different behavior whether a player plays 1-table vs. multitabling? Just curious

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 14, 2025, 7:14 PM#329

by tank mage m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58923696#post58923696)

johnmir, have you performed any analysis or planning to do so on large any sites like gg poker or pokerstars? also did your analysis show different behavior whether a player plays 1-table vs. multitabling? Just curious

Yes, I have performed. Unofficially - Pokerstars got almost the same software algorithms implemented. More then that, I managed to describe the algorithm on PS, firstly. And only then I moved to iPoker and tested it's software using the description of PS's software. The difference between my Pokerstars research and iPoker's research is that statistically - i have got slightly "weaker" evidence of rigging in PS. That is why I started from iPoker net. I haven't tested GG, unfortunately, can't tell anything about this room. At the same time, I have already got "verbal" confirmation of some players that Coin poker and PokerDom got very similar algorithms implemented. It means, that all the online poker rooms work according to a similar "model".

VandalarNewbie4 posts
Posted Mar 15, 2025, 6:28 PM#330

I think the casino RNG in general, even in poker, is not fair RNG. I think their RNG takes liquidity into account and makes adjustments based on liquidity and possibly some other variables (for example: did he deposit 1-st time? if yes- give more luck to activate dopamine receptors, did he deposit 50 bucks? If so, then don't give him that big win in 11 dollar tournament, but give him something like 75-150 bucks from a 1 dollar tournament. Did he deposit 2000 bucks, give him insanely good run in anything that is within that liquidity bracket 1-10 dollar buy in maybe? When they play like 200 dollar buy in then statistically they are given wins that fall within that liquidity bracket and not the actual totally random result, no matter how well they play- so they get less lucky on avg becaue of liquidity).

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 15, 2025, 6:56 PM#331

by Vandalar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58924679#post58924679)

I think the casino RNG in general, even in poker, is not fair RNG. I think their RNG takes liquidity into account and makes adjustments based on liquidity and possibly some other variables (for example: did he deposit 1-st time? if yes- give more luck to activate dopamine receptors, did he deposit 50 bucks? If so, then don't give him that big win in 11 dollar tournament, but gi... See full post

I haven't got enough statistics for this, but I suspect that if you play Spin&Go, for example, and get some big multiplier, a chance to earn the biggest prize is critically low. I tested that making small deposits. But I still haven't got enough data to "prove" it. In my opinion, yes, most-likely bankroll amount plays significant role while playing the concrete limit $. The idea is that software of the room is supposed to control bankroll increase speed. Since a player got 20 bucks, he won't be able to grow +100$ immediately.

tank mageMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Mar 15, 2025, 10:07 PM#332

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58923738#post58923738)

Yes, I have performed.Unofficially - Pokerstars got almost the same software algorithms implemented. More then that, I managed to describe the algorithm on PS, firstly. And only then I moved to iPoker and tested it's software using the description of PS's software.The difference between my Pokerstars research and iPoker's research is that statistically - i have got slightly "we... See full post

Well, if you decide to run analysis on ggpoker that would be interesting too. Anyways, considering the rake is already very high on most sites, should not some sort of an algorithm on top of that, make it practically impossible to winning players to exist? i remember already back in 2014 there were threads like this by very good players: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38/om... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38/omaha/zoom50-unbeatable-1462282/) So rake alone, without any kind of algos, would make it quite hard for anyone Pokertableratings was a fantastic sites as it showed if there were any winners of each stakes and so on, sad there are no longer quite sites like it

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 16, 2025, 8:56 AM#333

by tank mage m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58924856#post58924856)

Well, if you decide to run analysis on ggpoker that would be interesting too. Anyways, considering the rake is already very high on most sites, should not some sort of an algorithm on top of that, make it practically impossible to winning players to exist?i remember already back in 2014 there were threads like this by very good players:... See full post

Thank you for the link, crazy stuff )) Regarding high rake value and it's increasing. I think, that there are too many regular players take part in online games. So that they have to "balance" this outflow of funds (winning regular players withdrawn too much). But this talk is connected to discussion of a REAL possible ROI of a professional player (I talk about pro level players, not about regular players who open huge number of tables with 10%-30% ROI on each of them). In case the real ROI of an offline pro player varies from 100% to 300% ROI on, for example, 200 participants MTT - there is no any acceptable room's commission level which would save the room's money from withdrawals. Sorry for a complicated idea, but it's not a "fantasy". This is how it really works in finance, same as in poker rooms managing. And yes, exactly, it's a pity there are no more open statistics regarding online-poker players results...

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 16, 2025, 11:37 PM#334

by Vandalar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58924679#post58924679)

I think the casino RNG in general, even in poker, is not fair RNG. I think their RNG takes liquidity into account and makes adjustments based on liquidity and possibly some other variables (for example: did he deposit 1-st time? if yes- give more luck to activate dopamine receptors, did he deposit 50 bucks? If so, then don't give him that big win in 11 dollar tournament, but gi... See full post

Dopamine receptors lmfao What site are you even talking about?

tank mageMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Mar 21, 2025, 2:30 AM#335

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58923738#post58923738)

Yes, I have performed.Unofficially - Pokerstars got almost the same software algorithms implemented. More then that, I managed to describe the algorithm on PS, firstly. And only then I moved to iPoker and tested it's software using the description of PS's software.The difference between my Pokerstars research and iPoker's research is that statistically - i have got slightly "we... See full post

While gg poker typically has slightly higher rake it feels way different than stars. Also people think that gg has looser playerbase but this is generally not the case as russian players are banned from stars now. So nowadays stars is quite soft compared to gg often times, but the gameplay feels much weirder than gg. No statistical analysis simply as an anecdote. :shocked: Havent tried iPoker. Does stars use really same software or is it developed by same company?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 21, 2025, 11:25 AM#336

by tank mage m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58930567#post58930567)

While gg poker typically has slightly higher rake it feels way different than stars. Also people think that gg has looser playerbase but this is generally not the case as russian players are banned from stars now. So nowadays stars is quite soft compared to gg often times, but the gameplay feels much weirder than gg. No statistical analysis simply as an anecdote. :shocked:Haven... See full post

Aha. Well, the most fun to play on Stars on the weekend 😃 A lot of players arrive, who play "from time to time" and the software tries to "satisfy" them )))) Wow, i'm surprised to hear that there are some rooms like GG which look "natural".. Cool. In fact, Star's gameplay looks x2 more natural, then iPoker's one (just the gameplay, yes, they got the same software "logic" of alternating "clean"/"trapped" push-fold hands, but iPoker is more like a "circus" comparing to Stars. Same hands of different opponents - AJ vs AJ, AA vs AA. Same structure flops J 9 7 x2 )) A 2 3 - suited flop, and then 4 5 6 - of the same suit. On a regular basic. It doesn't even look like a poker game). iPoker's software is developed by Playtech PLC. That is why I sent my materials to The UK Gambling Commission. But Pokerstars software is developed by Flutter Entertainment (a huge sport better company registered in Ireland). The developers are different. But it looks like there is the only way to rig the game so that players wouldn't manage to "notice"/to prove rigging without opening of opponents hands (I just managed to open my opponent's hands in iPoker, that is why I prepared the research and sent it to Gambling Supervisors).

tank mageMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Mar 21, 2025, 10:24 PM#337

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58930793#post58930793)

Aha. Well, the most fun to play on Stars on the weekend 😃A lot of players arrive, who play "from time to time" and the software tries to "satisfy" them ))))Wow, i'm surprised to hear that there are some rooms like GG which look "natural".. Cool. In fact, Star's gameplay looks x2 more natural, then iPoker's one (just the gameplay, yes, they got the same software "logic" of alte... See full post

By all means, try playing on gg poker. I would like to hear your initial thoughts on it. And perhaps if possible at some point run a similar analysis and compare the results for example to ipoker or stars. Altought keep in mind the rake is slightly higher on gg than many of the competitors. But the game anecdotally feels very different from stars. Cant really compare to live poker because play so little live. Unibet (a very large betting site) have also small poker site of their own, and at least some years ago it felt pretty good and natural. In fact I think i should try their site again too. Also you mentioned playing against sit-out-opponent so you were able to see the mucked cards. Could one method to gather information be to arrange a heads-up or a 3-6 short-handed game between players of vast different skills on a selected poker network. And after a good sample size all of the players share their hand histories for a proper analysis. 😵

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 22, 2025, 9:23 AM#338

by tank mage m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58931379#post58931379)

By all means, try playing on gg poker. I would like to hear your initial thoughts on it. And perhaps if possible at some point run a similar analysis and compare the results for example to ipoker or stars. Altought keep in mind the rake is slightly higher on gg than many of the competitors. But the game anecdotally feels very different from stars. Cant really compare to live po... See full post

Nice that you share your thoughts about acceptable rooms to play. Regarding GG - sounds interesting. At the same time, man, I had to spend too much time to perform the research of iPoker/Pokerstars/Partypoker's software. So, I would rather move to play offline poker. I hope to synchronize playing offline with tennis coaching somehow and to test my real abilities in a random game. Since Unibet looks natural - it's good to play there at least to keep your gameplay and to train the game, you know. So, the idea to comeback there is good. I had to stop playing online not to spoil my gameplay, because, starting from some moment bluffs stop working online (players got huge hands again and again, and you can't even see these hands). Hard to feel pushes mathematically when the game is rigged THAT much. All this spoils the playing shape badly. Yeah! Look, this is what I successfully tried on iPoker. I started to show every valuable hand after the end of the game cone. And other players noticed, that if you can see hands of your opponents every time - the game looks like a circus, you know. And they started to show almost every hand too. I played hundreds of games like that )) Was fun.

  • Several players got the same hands simultaneously - 76s for both, Ajo for both.
  • Or 4 of 6 players on the table got KT, K9, KJ with K J 9 flop - the software puts similar hands to players to raise action on a postflop. It looks just crazy, when your opponents start to show you every hand.
  • Or every new player reaching BB position got a premium hand, lol. In fact, yes, exactly. If people would manage to exchange hand history and gather some amount of statistics with "all the cards visible" - that would just destroy online poker immediately. But, in fact, I made something similar to it. More then that, i simply described the software algorithm. I think, starting from this moment more and more people will start to understand what is going on. That software is simply predictable and tries to reduce profitability of all the players eliminating good decisions with a predictable generating negative ingame situations right after positive ones. And, looks like all the online poker market (all the rooms) works according to this model. So people think that they win or lose pots randomly. But there is just a predictable logic of this process. You play a good all in - you fold the next strong hand (preflop/postflop), if you just won several tournaments before. I don't see a way, that online poker keep being legal in a near future. Most-likely it will become something like a "well-known" type of scam (like "send me some money, my pet is ill" messages of scammers on the mobile phone).
GentlemenNewbie2 posts
Posted Mar 24, 2025, 12:12 AM#339

Guys it's simple. Starting hands distribution would be a good starting point to proving Poker sites aren't rigged and their alrogithms really to randomize perfectly. Even though the proof is not 100%, it would give me some hope. However, not a single site has ever released the full starting hands distribution percentages. Think about it. Not. A. Single. One. If randomizers worked as well as they said, surely at least it would be provable to some degree just by releasing historic starting hands, or even the distribution of the last few years?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 24, 2025, 9:09 PM#340

by Gentlemen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58933487#post58933487)

Guys it's simple. Starting hands distribution would be a good starting point to proving Poker sites aren't rigged and their alrogithms really to randomize perfectly. Even though the proof is not 100%, it would give me some hope. However, not a single site has ever released the full starting hands distribution percentages. Think about it. Not. A. Single. One. If randomizers work... See full post

Well, hard to say, because once they publish this statistics, they will let other players know the strategy of everyone, you know. I mean, even if they don't show actions of players, those who got trackers (Holdem managed, hand2note, etc) will manage to watch the full history of their opponents including decisions on all the stages. So, i'm not sure it's a good option to prove fairness. I think many players would be against it, also. At the same time, if they did so, it would be fun, a crazy joke. Because, if you play vs each other showing every of your hand, you will see, the game is not even close to be random )) I played like that, and i know how it looks, lol. They just deal the same or very similar hands to players of the same suit, same value. It's just a model of "max action" hand dealing so that everyone got some combination on the flop and play it until the showdown. I got KT, my opponent got QJ, some other guy got JT and the flop is T 9 3. This is what they do, and it becomes obvious once players start to show their hands each game cone. I don't talk about this too much, cause i haven't got enough statistics to show you. But it works exactly like I described you. Just in case you wanna know how they deal hands ))

GentlemenNewbie2 posts
Posted Mar 24, 2025, 9:13 PM#341

I'm talking about STARTING HANDS distribution. Big difference between that and what you are saying. I'm not asking for hand histories, only distributions. Starting hands is only a start. But they can begin begin with that. What 2 cards people get at the start of a new round. Releasing this data would not be useful in any way in the sense you described. It would only show that hand distributions are fair and balanced according to statistical probabilities. Mind you, I'm not asking for what player had what starting hands, only the distribution dataset. Also I am glad to see monteroy gone. Browsed some pages of recent history in this thread. Good riddance. I hope he never comes back.

tank mageMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Mar 24, 2025, 11:38 PM#342

by Gentlemen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58934362#post58934362)

I'm talking about STARTING HANDS distribution. Big difference between that and what you are saying. I'm not asking for hand histories, only distributions. Starting hands is only a start. But they can begin begin with that. What 2 cards people get at the start of a new round. Releasing this data would not be useful in any way in the sense you described. It would only show that h... See full post

However, this theory presented, does not necessarily require starting hand distribution anamoly? Post flop statistics seem to be most influenced in the theory/analysis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKvqjXv5... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKvqjXv5hKc)

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Mar 25, 2025, 9:13 AM#343

by Gentlemen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58933487#post58933487)

Guys it's simple. Starting hands distribution would be a good starting point to proving Poker sites aren't rigged and their alrogithms really to randomize perfectly. Even though the proof is not 100%, it would give me some hope. However, not a single site has ever released the full starting hands distribution percentages. Think about it. Not. A. Single. One. If randomizers work... See full post

would not matter one bit. most of the people complaining about perceived rigging cant be satisfied. There was real deal poker and people still complained and it went out of business. there is provably fair technology for other gambling games beside poker now and people still claim its rigged. the best the rooms can do is what they are doing have some certification and ignore the loud minority of riggies

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 25, 2025, 11:42 AM#344

by Gentlemen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58934362#post58934362)

I'm talking about STARTING HANDS distribution. Big difference between that and what you are saying. I'm not asking for hand histories, only distributions. Starting hands is only a start. But they can begin begin with that. What 2 cards people get at the start of a new round. Releasing this data would not be useful in any way in the sense you described. It would only show that h... See full post

What do you mean by a word "distribution"? What exactly should they publish? A data base with all the hands dealt on a preflop? Look, why I'm suspicious about the idea of publishing of players starting hands - because everyone, who has got a poker tracker program on his PC can open the tracker and watch any of his own game cones played. He opens a game cone, then he opens statistics with Starting hands of players and watch all the opponent's starting hands, right? So he can check what decisions his opponents have taken on the flop, on the turn and on the river. Because he has got a starting hand of every player. If you mean, that a room will publish starting hands distribution without players nicknames - then how will public check if this statistics is true?

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 25, 2025, 3:22 PM#345

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58934784#post58934784)

would not matter one bit.most of the people complaining about perceived rigging cant be satisfied. There was real deal poker and people still complained and it went out of business. there is provably fair technology for other gambling games beside poker now and people still claim its rigged.the best the rooms can do is what they are doing have some certification and ignore the ... See full post

I, for one, am fascinated by the scholarly work being done in this thread

ejames209Micro-Stakes Grinder12 posts
Posted Mar 25, 2025, 4:06 PM#346

Monteroy was the final boss for all riggies in this thread.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2025, 12:12 AM#347

by Gentlemen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58934362#post58934362)

I'm talking about STARTING HANDS distribution. Big difference between that and what you are saying. I'm not asking for hand histories, only distributions. Starting hands is only a start. But they can begin begin with that. What 2 cards people get at the start of a new round. Releasing this data would not be useful in any way in the sense you described. It would only show that h... See full post

You can look at your own starting hand histories. Even with just 50000 hands you could see if pairs show up 1 out of 17 hands and if each combination of non-pocket pairs are within 20 hands of the average frequency. Even if certain hands come up more often than others, I'm not sure what that proves as far as fairness. With respect to fairness what's important are things like if AK beats AQ 3 out of 4 times, K hits the flop, turn and river as frequently as Q (and vice versa) and aces 33% less frequently.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2025, 12:19 PM#348

you can only check if AK beats AQ 3 out of 4 times if its a preflop all-in if you set filter to hero has ak & villain has aq you get skewed results because you miss all the times villain folded aq before showdown just like many (if not all) observations in this thread are skewed and flawed

VandalarNewbie4 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2025, 12:33 PM#349

But if you distributed that 3 out of 4 times AK vs AQ in such a way that a first depositor gets the lucky side of it so to speak- he wins 3 times out of 4 with AQ as an underdog and later that luck evens out when he loses with AK against AQ. Even though the depositor got super lucky and ran like a god if you just look at the overall win% of hands it looks like normal distribution because it evens out, just they choose what part of distribution goes where to manipulate with liquidity and player retention. Wouldn't it all look legit until you start comparing specific subsets of distributions, like depositor vs non depositor etc?

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2025, 4:14 PM#350

by Vandalar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58935796#post58935796)

But if you distributed that 3 out of 4 times AK vs AQ in such a way that a first depositor gets the lucky side of it so to speak- he wins 3 times out of 4 with AQ as an underdog and later that luck evens out when he loses with AK against AQ. Even though the depositor got super lucky and ran like a god if you just look at the overall win% of hands it looks like normal distributi... See full post

Well then this becomes bingo and there is no skill involved. Was your reply translated because the wording sounds a bit of, and it sounds like you are saying fewer losing players would quit playing as a result. If that is what you are saying I would agree but then this isn't really poker anymore. And yes you would have to look at more than a few hands and look at the sequence the cards hit the board because even if AK would have beaten AQ 3 out of 4 times in a preflop all in situation, if Q always connects first that's a problem. But my reply wasn't to document every possible issue. It was to illustrate why hole card distribution really doesn't impact fairness. Ultimately a simpler way to review the hands to see if they play in accordance with the probabilities is to review the all in results which eliminates any of these issues. Which is why I posted my all-in results.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2025, 4:23 PM#351

by Vandalar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58935796#post58935796)

But if you distributed that 3 out of 4 times AK vs AQ in such a way that a first depositor gets the lucky side of it so to speak- he wins 3 times out of 4 with AQ as an underdog and later that luck evens out when he loses with AK against AQ. Even though the depositor got super lucky and ran like a god if you just look at the overall win% of hands it looks like normal distributi... See full post

the fact with looking in a tracker of how your AK does vs AQ is flawed because you only get to see the times his AQ went to showdown. Maybe villain folded some AQ winners that are now not being looked at etc

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 26, 2025, 9:20 PM#352

by Vandalar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58935796#post58935796)

But if you distributed that 3 out of 4 times AK vs AQ in such a way that a first depositor gets the lucky side of it so to speak- he wins 3 times out of 4 with AQ as an underdog and later that luck evens out when he loses with AK against AQ. Even though the depositor got super lucky and ran like a god if you just look at the overall win% of hands it looks like normal distributi... See full post

They (rooms) certainly do this, but to prove this you need to get a pretty big amount of different players account information. I have already analyzed a lot of different "all-ins playing" issues. But didn't manage to find any significant violations. The most important thing to understand is that a room will never manipulate the game "openly". I mean, if you wanna find something, you need to "open opponents hands" somehow. And Slugant's statement proves it - once you don't see an opponent's hand you can't assess any deviations in card dealing process. So all the "crazy rigging stuff" is going mainly on a postflop with "closed then mucked" hands. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58936047#post58936047)

the fact with looking in a tracker of how your AK does vs AQ is flawed because you only get to see the times his AQ went to showdown. Maybe villain folded some AQ winners that are now not being looked at etc

Agree with you, yes, the only way of analysis is a preflop all-ins monitoring. Otherwise, players decisions on a postflop influence on the "result of observation".

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2025, 12:40 PM#353

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58936443#post58936443)

So all the "crazy rigging stuff" is going mainly on a postflop with "closed then mucked" hands.

but how does the pokersite know when a player will muck the cards? if they only rig non-showdown hands (once again, how do they know this beforehand, and you cant rig a hand after everyone's folded) the only way to play 100% fair poker in your opinion is to go to showdown each hand.. good luck 😉

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2025, 1:07 PM#354

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58937013#post58937013)

but how does the pokersite know when a player will muck the cards? if they only rig non-showdown hands (once again, how do they know this beforehand, and you cant rig a hand after everyone's folded) the only way to play 100% fair poker in your opinion is to go to showdown each hand.. good luck 😉

I mean, even if they rig postflop, we can't see every hand. So it's impossible to prove rigging. Software doesn't even need to predict that, since in a normal game noone will come to a showdown every single pot. As a result - there is no evidence available. Lol, you are the first man, who finally described the point of "possible" game play vs a rigged room by the way )) Yeah, the only way to play in this case - push/fold. At the end of my online gaming I totally moved to hyper-turbo tournaments - short SnGs, Spins, heads-ups, Double or nothing. I played "slow" structure tournaments on Partypoker before. And my aggressive postflop gaming ended with just been killed by the software on each buble. I didn't manage to go through it to get prizes. My ROI stopped at 20%-30% mark and I had to leave the room.

MelodicmuckMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2025, 1:33 PM#355

I swear I've noticed on ACR and ClubGG that I ran amazingly good for a short period of time post deposit. Followed by down swing. Could be normal. Could be rigged. Hard to say it's unlike any live session I've had.

MelodicmuckMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2025, 3:17 PM#356

by Vandalar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58924679#post58924679)

I think the casino RNG in general, even in poker, is not fair RNG. I think their RNG takes liquidity into account and makes adjustments based on liquidity and possibly some other variables (for example: did he deposit 1-st time? if yes- give more luck to activate dopamine receptors, did he deposit 50 bucks? If so, then don't give him that big win in 11 dollar tournament, but gi... See full post

The people who take hard and fast: ''this could NEVER happen!'' are incredibly naive or shills for the online poker corporations. OF COURSE it's possible. I don't care how certified anything is. When you're talking about 1,000,000,000s of dollars... Yes, bending the system is incredibly likely. And it would be easy. Just my 2c

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2025, 3:47 PM#357

by Melodicmuck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58937122#post58937122)

The people who take hard and fast: ''this could NEVER happen!'' are incredibly naive or shills for the online poker corporations. OF COURSE it's possible. I don't care how certified anything is. When you're talking about 1,000,000,000s of dollars... Yes, bending the system is incredibly likely. And it would be easy. Just my 2c

Well it could be possible. Definitely not easy to do but yes when lots of money is on line anything can be done. i would be more cautious if smaller sites with less volume. They have less liquidity and would suffer more from winners crushing and withdrawing. Bigger sites don't have that worry. Example that Phil galfond talked about. Say someone deposited 1k. The site won't actually have 1k due to fees. So they may be $950. Multiply that by saying 20 player. Now u got a deficit of $1,000. So to would take time to recover that. Not a problem for a site with lots of volume. Could be a problem for a smaller site.

GundamPokerNewbie3 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2025, 7:23 PM#358

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58913783#post58913783)

Thank you, man (if you are serious)... They answer "You are idiot, you dunno how to play". So awful. Really. In fact it's just disappointing. I mean we won't stop this wars and misunderstandings in the international society since huge part of people behave like that.

It may be both disappointing to you and also true.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Mar 27, 2025, 7:28 PM#359

by Melodicmuck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58937122#post58937122)

The people who take hard and fast: ''this could NEVER happen!'' are incredibly naive or shills for the online poker corporations. OF COURSE it's possible. I don't care how certified anything is. When you're talking about 1,000,000,000s of dollars... Yes, bending the system is incredibly likely. And it would be easy. Just my 2c

The problem with this is every site has players claiming this. Literally all of them I tell everyone I play if they truly think they're being cheated, then leave immediately and never come back. I would never play on a site that I thought was cheating me out of money Apparently they'd rather just keep handing away their money and then come here to complain about it The funniest thing about it is I'll even suggest they play on a different site (one I'm also playing at) and I've actually seen players do this. Imagine how that experience went for them? Over two decades of this lmfao

MelodicmuckMicro-Stakes Grinder9 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2025, 12:13 AM#360

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58937374#post58937374)

The problem with this is every site has players claiming this. Literally all of themI tell everyone I play if they truly think they're being cheated, then leave immediately and never come back. I would never play on a site that I thought was cheating me out of moneyApparently they'd rather just keep handing away their money and then come here to complain about itThe funniest th... See full post

I concur. If you feel like you're being cheated just stop. I'm really not complaining just chiming in with my worthless two cents. I just feel like it's all a little, well.... "Sus"? Funny clubGG is owned by nsus.

tank mageMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2025, 1:14 AM#361

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58937143#post58937143)

Well it could be possible. Definitely not easy to do but yes when lots of money is on line anything can be done. i would be more cautious if smaller sites with less volume. They have less liquidity and would suffer more from winners crushing and withdrawing. Bigger sites don't have that worry. Example that Phil galfond talked about. Say someone deposited 1k. The site won't actu... See full post

Most of the modern day sites have casino and/or sports betting site accompanied by the poker side. They rake large sums from other betting so it's highly doubtful liquidity comes an issue to any size of a poker site. Only situations whereas liquidity may become a problem is what happened to Full Tilt 😆

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Mar 28, 2025, 9:15 AM#363

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58937143#post58937143)

Well it could be possible. Definitely not easy to do but yes when lots of money is on line anything can be done. i would be more cautious if smaller sites with less volume. They have less liquidity and would suffer more from winners crushing and withdrawing. Bigger sites don't have that worry. Example that Phil galfond talked about. Say someone deposited 1k. The site won't actu... See full post

Man, I react cause we have already discussed this. "Definitely not easy to do" Man, all you need to know about how iPoker and Pokerstars do this you can see in details - watching just one video. This is HOW it works, I described everything and confirmed by the actual statistics. I also sent it to 10 Gambling supervision authorities (10 countries) to notify the world's society about what is going on. This is not a "question" any more. It's opened and described from "A" to "Z". https://www.twoplustwo.com/Discussion-of... (https://www.twoplustwo.com/Discussion-of-Poker-Sites/13k3x/How-to-play-online-poker-according-to-a-software-algorithm---iPoker-Red-Star-Poker-room?isRecommendedPost=true#recommendedPost) "Bigger sites don't have that worry." We have already discussed this stuff in this thread a bit earlier, when I had to comment this so that guys would understand the profit of the room a bit better. "In case we play and i win all the games - the room gets (for example we play 1$ Heads-up and my opponent got 20$ bankroll)

2$ (prize pool) * 10% (commission of the room) * 20 games = 4$

But if the software manages to equalize our game and to let us win one by one we lose all the money been melt down to a commission.

200 games of a draw (100-100) = 40$ income as a commission for the room.

10 times more income (40$ and 4$)." Man, it's a question of 1,000,000,000 income OR 10,000,000,000 income. And every business owner knows this perfectly. Just no doubts here. This is just an "income calculation" of business. Every manager does it before implementing any changes in the company. Profitability of any "move" is calculatable - here it's about 9,000,000,000 $.

Lil LarussoNewbie4 posts
Posted Apr 5, 2025, 8:21 AM#365

GG poker ontario is stupid rigged... it literally only helps out super fish and then the boosted bot accounts.. if you are a regular real human like me not working for GG you will win about 25% of the profit you really should.... the player pool sucks i should be crushing

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 5, 2025, 3:43 PM#366

Guys, I posted this in my topic, to make it a bit fresher, since I haven't got something new from Supervision authorities. But I also post something here too, just to full fill "The debate" with some funny and relevant info 😃 These are my first 50 tournaments played in any room after a break in gaming. Or right after the first registration in the online-poker casino

Almost all of this - Sit&Go tournaments (from 45 to 180 entries). Is it normal? �� In the start of gaming in any room I try to get used to a software, try to remember what poker is... It's a joke to discuss if I played really well there. Always winning first 50 tournaments?? You kidding me.. )) Any ideas? 🤐 😃 At least I officially proved that my average ROI level is around 150%... Or more? 😮 ))) I'm kind of a poker God from now on Seriously. Almost every room's website got links to "responsible gaming" but at the same time, they just involve people to play the game. Great social behavior ))

tank mageMicro-Stakes Grinder7 posts
Posted Apr 5, 2025, 11:51 PM#367

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58946060#post58946060)

Guys, I posted this in my topic, to make it a bit fresher, since I haven't got something new from Supervision authorities. But I also post something here too, just to full fill "The debate" with some funny and relevant info 😃These are my first 50 tournaments played in any room after a break in gaming. Or right after the first registration in the online-poker casino Almost all ... See full post

Yeah, well, 'new account rungood' has been a long time joke among online players. I remember having crazy one on stars. gg poker not particularly, always seemd a bit more normal in that sense. So basically just anecdotes. It's something that is nearly impossible to prove. That would require hand histories of very large numbers of freshly created accounts. Altought it's nice someone actually have statistics showing up their deposit rungood in numbers.

Blind BurglarMicro-Stakes Grinder5 posts
Posted Apr 6, 2025, 5:52 PM#368

The BB 3 bet my CO open and I then 4 bet with AA. The BB jammed with 2-6 off which I called. The board ran out 2-6-9-5-Q. No more debate, the verdict is in. Rigged. Need I post more examples? /sarc

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 8:13 AM#369

by Blind Burglar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947039#post58947039)

The BB 3 bet my CO open and I then 4 bet with AA. The BB jammed with 2-6 off which I called. The board ran out 2-6-9-5-Q. No more debate, the verdict is in. Rigged. Need I post more examples? /sarc

Man. Partypoker 2018. Nickname - Johnmir Average field size - 343 players Average ROI - 15% 50 tournaments played Let's check tournament variance calculator results:

A chance to lose after 50 tournaments played is 54,57%. Just to estimate it fast, let's take all other cases according to 50% of loss chances for each of 9 tries to play after a half year break. A chance to win 8 or 9 runs of 9 tries is :

1,95%. Well, this is not a SURE rigging. But it's very close to it. And it's not about "the distance is not big enough", it's about "chances for the variance" = 1,95%.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 11:19 AM#370

how do we know you are not rigging your own numbers? everyone can fill in an excel sheet with numbers like allin 50% fact 88,9% from an outsider perspective, what do you think is more believable? That many pokersites are all rigging (seemingly against the same low stakes player for some reason) or that that person is making up numbers in his head to show everyone he is not just simply terrible at poker?

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 1:26 PM#371

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947737#post58947737)

how do we know you are not rigging your own numbers?everyone can fill in an excel sheet with numbers like allin 50% fact 88,9%from an outsider perspective, what do you think is more believable? That many pokersites are all rigging (seemingly against the same low stakes player for some reason) or that that person is making up numbers in his head to show everyone he is not just s... See full post

@Johnmir: Don't answer this guy. It is obvious that he is a desinformation cultie. He is framing his question, making us believe as if he is talking for the community by saying crap like "how do WE know you are not rigging your own numbers?" It ain't "we" dude. It is you alone making assumptions. Followed by the typical framing of poker players being "terrible at poker" just because they have critical concerns. Instead of a normal reaction of a human, that would indeed feel concerned too and be sceptical, you just provide a non critical biased agenda that is supported by defamation. If WE see one thing for sure, than it is that comments like yours are really just air disappearing in space. Means, it's trolling crap.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 1:50 PM#372

by tank mage m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58946437#post58946437)

Yeah, well, 'new account rungood' has been a long time joke among online players. I remember having crazy one on stars. gg poker not particularly, always seemd a bit more normal in that sense. So basically just anecdotes.It's something that is nearly impossible to prove. That would require hand histories of very large numbers of freshly created accounts. Altought it's nice some... See full post

I play poker since 17 years and deposit rungoods are a fact. I just had three within 2 months. And it is not impossible to prove, it happens in reality. Phenom Poker 300 to 1.700 to 200 PokerBros 500 to 1000 to 0 Betonline also 100% + Extreme ups all followed by extreme downswings. NOTHING in between. I had them in the past: Stars 2.000 to 26K with a fresh account of my ex girlfriend, because I couldn't win on my own. That win followed by the worst MTT nightmare downswing over months in my life. Coming to someone that at that time crushed Party in te longrun over a 12 moths period, grinding 6 days a week 15+ Mtts a day. Party 225 to 50K Titan 1.000 to 16 K and so on Managed to turn 100 $ into 10.000 three times or so. I ran 200 buyins under EV on stars in sngs. 200 fkn hundered !!! Lost like 20 headsups in Spins on Bros in a row. (As a former Spin Legends Gold member) Just Lost like 20 "flips" + in a row in Spins on Bros where I was mostly ahead where I went from 1K to zero playing with a 50 buyin brm PLO cg. People should stop ignoring the fact that these things exist. And it is NOT just variance. Pokersites have a high incentive of balancing equities, and rigging these games. Just because some of you are not experiencing it, doesn't mean others are not getting bend over a barrel. But maybe some of you like it. Sometimes I get the impression, that there are lots of psychopaths and sociopaths in the poker community. Especially the payed cultie guys that are hired to spread their biased agenda in communities, to enforce the "variance" myths and the "you just play terrible" crap. People that constantly focus on "ad hominem" attacks in conversations, that lack empathy and try to discredit everyone that has a certain viewpoint. We have them in YouTube comments as well as in poker forums. Scumbags. People that get it in good and lose over and over again are not bad, or terrible. It is the opposite. They crush, and are not allowed to win, because they get scammed. Period.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 3:06 PM#373

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947804#post58947804)

I play poker since 17 years and deposit rungoods are a fact. I just had three within 2 months. And it is not impossible to prove, it happens in reality.Phenom Poker 300 to 1.700 to 200PokerBros 500 to 1000 to 0Betonline also 100% + Extreme ups all followed by extreme downswings. NOTHING in between.I had them in the past:Stars 2.000 to 26K with a fresh account of my ex girlfrien... See full post

Look, if you play tournaments, you can calculate all this using the tournament variance calculator https://www.primedope.com/tournament-var... (https://www.primedope.com/tournament-variance-calculator/) My story on Pokerstars: I played 7$ SnGs. And made a run of 169 tournaments. 90% ROI ( = 1065$ profit / 7$ / 169 tourneys ) After this run i played 340 next tournaments and made 2% ROI (48$ profit) Now look. Let's say my real ROI level is 15% (or any other - it's not important here, actually) Then

A chance to hit such a high ROI=90% (an up streak) is around 0.1% (You can see that 99.7% confidence level gives max 83.28%. But I made even more. I made 90%. So it's less then 0.3% chances to hit it.) Now let's check my down streak of 2% ROI for the next 340 tournaments with the same Expected ROI = 15%

You can see that a chance to make from -3.30% to 34.12% is 30% (70% confidence level here). I made 2%. So, I hit something like 35%. In total, means, I could accidentally hit 90% ROI (169 tourneys) and then 2% ROI (340 tourneys) one by one = 0.1% * 35% = 0.035% (1/0.035% = 4 times of 10 000 tries to replay 500 tournaments again and again) So, there are two possible cases:

  1. I'm a highly profitable player - then why don't I win much on a long distance?
  2. Rooms just rig the game to involve new players into the game Thank you for sharing this information, MagRailPro! It's important, actually. Cause since we all keep silence about the fraud - it will continue forever.
SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 4:04 PM#374

where does it say in the variance calculator that there are 2 possible cases which are you being a profitable player but not winning much or you play rigged rooms (somehow all of them)? I want to read this fact but it doesnt show in your screenshot. It probably just cut off because I know you wouldnt make up that fact. It would have also probably shown possiblity number 3 (i.e. the correct one), namely that the observation and input is heavily flawed and not factual

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 5:10 PM#375

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947975#post58947975)

where does it say in the variance calculator that there are 2 possible cases which are you being a profitable player but not winning much or you play rigged rooms (somehow all of them)?

Do you mean that 0,035% is just an accident? Any other ideas? I played 169 tournaments and made 90% ROI. Then I played 340 tournaments and made 2% ROI. If the game is random, how did I manage to do 90% ROI then? Even if I input 30% ROI, I get a chance to hit 90% lower then 5% (95% confidence level covers only 78,86% ROI, not 90%, look)

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947975#post58947975)

It would have also probably shown possiblity number 3 (i.e. the correct one), namely that the observation and input is heavily flawed and not factual

I haven't got all the tournaments recorded. Only 55 + 340 of them. first 55 (of those 169) - 100%+ ROI btw, it's fun, since I play after a 3 years of break

and 340 next (2% ROI, lol)

Holdem manager shows a bit more then 2%. But it's a bit wrong. Some tournaments were somehow mixed, i think. Because I manually record the results of any tournament in my automated excel data base. In fact, i don't think I should prove something with Holdem Manager nor Graphs here, since it's a forum, it's not a court. You can refuse to count the information. I don't see a problem here (i'm serious, really, you can just make a conclusion that I lie. But you can't say "you lie" since you can't prove that.)

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 6:48 PM#376

There is no such thing as a cash out curse or run good just because you deposited money I've explained this before in a previous post, but when you play poker, you are ALWAYS going up or down It is variance, and you have no control over it. Everyone experiences the same variance after an infinite number of hands What you CAN control, however, are the decisions you make when you play And how you manage your bankroll If you play long enough, you will run worse than you ever thought possible That is not the moment to get emotional and/or complain I know this is not easy. I ****ing hate losing too. And I go through "wtf" downswings all the time. That is simply the nature of the beast

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 7:32 PM#377

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948219#post58948219)

What players are complaining about now is actually a combination of variance and the field of players becoming harder to beat Too much info readily available to learn to play poker fundamentally correct in a general sense and nowhere near as many noobs and completely naive players

TD, I rarely play online. But I just played a game to spend time. Yeah, the field is too good nowadays, i'm far behind. The start of the tourney -

The next hand -

The next hand (just for fun). When you got AKs AJo KK in a row after a week of break it looks funny in my opinion.

Here is a world class, the second table, same tourney.

Too good for me, you are right. People read too much nowadays. That ATo, 99 limping is GTO mix poker genius (just a set of words here, but i need to describe THE level somehow in a cool way)

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 7:34 PM#378

Just interesting, guys, if you do play online. Are you serious saying the field is good? I mean, if you say it's good, are YOU good? )) Huge number of babysitters, 18 years old kids play the game. You say "the field is good nowadays"... TD, cmon. I mean, do you believe this?

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 7, 2025, 10:06 PM#379

In the total sample you show Johnmir you only run $44 below EV so you are pretty much getting what you deserve. And claiming you have a 100% after only 55 sng's is crazy, you need a way way bigger sample but its like you say, you RARELY play poker also, if you say that you RARELY play online, how can you make the claims you are making? and an even more important question, why do you feel the need to spend so much time talking about a game you RARELY play?? and what are those screenshots even showing that should be off in your opinion? its 4 hands without a board where you get dealt ak, kk, aj & jto.... wowow its must be rigged then to answer your question if the field is good. I dont play as low as you but at midstakes the games are easily beatable (for me) and I dont study much, just use logical thinking. You can still easily make a decent living out of poker if you focus on your game instead of thinking everything is rigged. And i actually play big enough samples to say something about it. If you only get an ROI of 2% while running a supersmall $44 under EV its just because you aren that good. If you spend all the time you have spent making weird excel sheets about all sites being rigged on making your game better you would have been better. and btw you still havent shown where the variance calculator comes to the conclusion that are 2 possible cases which are you being a profitable player but not winning much or you play rigged rooms (somehow all of them)

Lil LarussoNewbie4 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 9:12 AM#380

magrail pro you actually seem like a real human its kinda nice to see. I know exactly what you are saying and going through

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 9:39 AM#381

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947798#post58947798)

@Johnmir: Don't answer this guy. It is obvious that he is a desinformation cultie.He is framing his question, making us believe as if he is talking for the community by saying crap like "how do WE know you are not rigging your own numbers?"It ain't "we" dude. It is you alone making assumptions. Followed by the typical framing of poker players being "terrible at poker" just bec... See full post

although you do have a point that he should have used I instead of we. He is making a valid point hough. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947804#post58947804)

I play poker since 17 years and deposit rungoods are a fact. I just had three within 2 months. And it is not impossible to prove, it happens in reality.Phenom Poker 300 to 1.700 to 200PokerBros 500 to 1000 to 0Betonline also 100% + Extreme ups all followed by extreme downswings. NOTHING in between.I had them in the past:Stars 2.000 to 26K with a fresh account of my ex girlfrien... See full post

In what format did you run 200 buy ins under ev? There are some variance heavy games out there where this can happen every now and then. That being said based on your post I immediately jump to the assumption that you are not as good as you think and that you probably play over your head. Just the whole way you tell the story. The way you absolutely refuse to even consider you might do something wrong. by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947891#post58947891)

Look, if you play tournaments, you can calculate all this using the tournament variance calculatorhttps://www.primedope.com/tournament-var... (https://www.primedope.com/tournament-variance-calculator/)My story on Pokerstars:I played 7$ SnGs.And made a run of 169 tournaments. 90% ROI ( = 1065$ profit / 7$ / 169 tourneys )After this run i played 340 next tournaments and made 2% ROI (48$ profit)Now look. Let's say my real ROI... See full post

Did you play all of these tournaments against the same people? Did you play the same? There are way to many variables to say it can only be these 2 cases. Maybe you played well at first but then changed something about your game. Maybe you start out paying attention to the way you play but later on just go on auto pilot. by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948239#post58948239)

TD, I rarely play online. But I just played a game to spend time.Yeah, the field is too good nowadays, i'm far behind.The start of the tourney - The next hand - The next hand (just for fun). When you got AKs AJo KK in a row after a week of break it looks funny in my opinion. Here is a world class, the second table, same tourney. Too good for me, you are right. People read too m... See full post

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948240#post58948240)

Just interesting, guys, if you do play online. Are you serious saying the field is good? I mean, if you say it's good, are YOU good? )) Huge number of babysitters, 18 years old kids play the game. You say "the field is good nowadays"... TD, cmon. I mean, do you believe this?

Mate 50 cent tournaments are not necessarily the most competitive games around. Neither are 7 dollar sngs although i would stay away from one table and husng these days. I cant help wondering how you came to the conclusion that you are an expert level poker player. Have you at any time actually played somewhat competitive stakes?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 10:42 AM#382

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948396#post58948396)

In the total sample you show Johnmir you only run $44 below EV so you are pretty much getting what you deserve. And claiming you have a 100% after only 55 sng's is crazy, you need a way way bigger sample but its like you say, you RARELY play poker

It's only small piece, Slugant. In 2015 I played 89 tournaments on Pokerstars. Buy in = 7$. ROI = 94%. Profit = +595$ In 2018 I played 80 tournaments on Pokerstars Buy in = 7$. ROI = 84% (just the same, yes). Profit = +470$ Total profit = +1055$, total ROI = 89%. 55 SnGs - this is what I shown just to prove a part of information. Cause you asked. But before 07 june 2018 I hadn't got Holdem Manager installed on my PC. You can request tournament history in Pokerstars, lol. If you feel someone lies. Or just ignore this information, if you think that I lie. A chance to play 89% ROI (169 SnGs) and, then, 341 next tournaments with a ROI of 2% = 0,035% or 4 times of 10 000 replays of 510 tournaments played. Have you got any specific comments? Do you agree? I'm talking about poker maths at the moment. It is not like "an opinion", my statement - is a fact. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948396#post58948396)

also, if you say that you RARELY play online, how can you make the claims you are making? and an even more important question, why do you feel the need to spend so much time talking about a game you RARELY play??

I have played 16 hours a day from 2018 to 2022 (with small breaks). All the limits from 1,5$ to 109$ (on Party poker, on Pokerstars). Do you mean that situation has significantly changed in the last 3 years? (I think you don't read attentively enough, sorry. I have said, I haven't played for last 3 years often enough.) by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948396#post58948396)

and what are those screenshots even showing that should be off in your opinion? its 4 hands without a board where you get dealt ak, kk, aj & jto.... wowow its must be rigged then

Here, again, you just didn't read attentively, but still decided to react. I say: "TD, I rarely play online. But I just played a game to spend time. Yeah, the field is too good nowadays, i'm far behind. That ATo, 99 limping is GTO mix poker genius" Slugant, I say to TeflonDawg that the field is just awful. And it was awful. I don't talk about rigging in the message. You talk about rigging, ok, but not myself. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948396#post58948396)

to answer your question if the field is good. I dont play as low as you but at midstakes the games are easily beatable (for me) and I dont study much, just use logical thinking. You can still easily make a decent living out of poker if you focus on your game instead of thinking everything is rigged. And i actually play big enough samples to say something about it. If you only g... See full post

It's good you manage to win stably, and it's good that you found this way to earn. I'm serious. At the same time, it shouldn't be too hard with a help of the software though, since it's (the software of the room) oriented to keep active players who play many tables, in game. No proofs here, just my opinion. This is what I saw in game in 2018-2022. Btw, my normal limit in 2008-2022 was 7$-100$ SnG/MTT, looks like you play something more expensive. Ok. I am a professional level player. I don't need to be better to earn money in fair gaming against amateur players. I don't also need to be better to earn money online, i just need to open more tables. But I decided not to play low level quality gaming not to spoil my game. At the same time I got a good profitable job (a tennis coach). I had to waste my time for this excel sheets, man, because there are some bastards own players all over the world in some crazy way, I decided to help and to stop this fraud. This is the key reason I published my matherials. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948396#post58948396)

and btw you still havent shown where the variance calculator comes to the conclusion that are 2 possible cases which are you being a profitable player but not winning much or you play rigged rooms (somehow all of them)

Man, I have already answered this, but you didn't read me attentively. Variance calculator doens't show this kind of info. This conclusions are simple maths + easy logic. And I explained the logic. You just ignored.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 11:28 AM#383

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58948833#post58948833)

I am a professional level player.

Ok, now WE can clearly state you are delusional. That is not an opinion, its a fact based on logic (just like how you "prove" stuff) You aren't and never was good enough, not even close. That is the only conclusion here. But you also said you aren't here to debate rigging.... you might want to take a took at the thread title once more

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 2:48 PM#384

Professional level LMFAO The only thing you're "professional level" at is having a severe lack of reading comprehension

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 4:27 PM#385

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947804#post58947804)

Just Lost like 20 "flips" + in a row in Spins on Bros where I was mostly ahead where I went from 1K to zero playing with a 50 buyin brm PLO cg.People should stop ignoring the fact that these things exist. And it is NOT just variance. Pokersites have a high incentive of balancing equities, and rigging these games.Just because some of you are not experiencing it, doesn't mean oth... See full post

I wasn't going to mention this because I can't retrieve my hands from 2023, but I missed over 30 (I think it was 32) front door flush draws in a row at GGPoker. I couldn't believe it. It only happened once but things like that should never happen.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 4:53 PM#386

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58949026#post58949026)

I wasn't going to mention this because I can't retrieve my hands from 2023, but I missed over 30 (I think it was 32) front door flush draws in a row at GGPoker. I couldn't believe it. It only happened once but things like that should never happen.

Well, the software of iPoker, Pokerstars and Partypoker (especially Party) just changes different "types of aggression" towards the player. I mean, now (10 tournaments in a row) you almost always get involved in JJ vs KK situations (pocket top pair vs pocket top pair better) Then you get involved into a flop missing. In stead of 32,4% you start to "hit" 10%. And 10 tournaments like that. Then a wave of a card dead (only garbage is coming) A wave of allins losing. And you can predict all this!

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 5:02 PM#387

So I downloaded the trial version of PokerTracker and was hoping to generate my All-In Adjusted Differential, similar to Holdem Manager, but PT4 doesn't seem to have a way to generate the same stat. So instead I looked at AK, AQ and AJ hole cards to see what percentage I connected with the A, K, Q, and/or J on the flop. Out of 36479 hands I drew AK, AQ or AJ 1327 times and saw the flop 1037. Even though GGPoker always shows the rabbit flop the software does not. Out of the 1037 hands I connected 306 times (29.51%, 2.92% below the mean and 2.272 standard deviations below the mean). That's not extreme but the odds are about 87 to 1. Too many stats at GGPoker are over 2 standard deviations over the mean.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 6:55 PM#388

Well, guys, let's wait until Curacao answers me... We will understand the situation. Once they reject the license of one room, we will understand how to stop this world wide scam. In fact, you can just test the algorithm I described in English. It works for Pokerstars. And some guys told me, something very similar works for Coin Poker. Just check if you can predict premium hands to be beaten after you won a huge pot. Once you start to avoid this "traps" the software starts to behave in a very specific way. And you will manage to gather any statistics/anomalies you want.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 8, 2025, 10:32 PM#389

fact, you 2 are delusional. On a professional level actually, unlike your poker skills And this holds true for 100% of your posts so there is no room for error If you really think you can predict board outcomes, how come you are not a huge winner?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 8:15 AM#390

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58949414#post58949414)

If you really think you can predict board outcomes, how come you are not a huge winner?

It's a casino. That is why I ask other players to check what is going on. Once you start to use "outcomes" you will stop winning at all. And Pokerstars - top number 1 to discuss. Right after I started to fold huge hands to avoid losing vs better KK/AA/AK huge hands. Software just blocked all-ins winning, I lost 20 of 21 all-ins on buble of 45 afs SnG. After this, I just stopped trying. Once again - it's a casino. You CAN'T win more, then they allow you. A good example of this - Partypoker also. I decided to play 1000 players 10$ buy-in tournaments there. I managed to get top 30 4 times of 30 tries. And all of them I lost with AA/KK hand. Same as some regular players lose closer to final table of Pokerstars in Sunday Million. They just lose with AA hand. It's everywhere. It's a casino. They consider prize pool as their own money. In spite of it's players money. Because once you withdraw, these money leave the room. But the idea of any room is to equalize players to melt down their money into the room's commission for playing the game.

geezerchessRegular38 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 9:54 AM#391

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58949893#post58949893)

It's a casino.That is why I ask other players to check what is going on.Once you start to use "outcomes" you will stop winning at all. And Pokerstars - top number 1 to discuss.Right after I started to fold huge hands to avoid losing vs better KK/AA/AK huge hands. Software just blocked all-ins winning, I lost 20 of 21 all-ins on buble of 45 afs SnG. After this, I just stopped tr... See full post

Thanks for your analysis. How are you getting along not playing online poker any more?

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 11:36 AM#393

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58949893#post58949893)

It's a casino.That is why I ask other players to check what is going on.Once you start to use "outcomes" you will stop winning at all. And Pokerstars - top number 1 to discuss.Right after I started to fold huge hands to avoid losing vs better KK/AA/AK huge hands. Software just blocked all-ins winning, I lost 20 of 21 all-ins on buble of 45 afs SnG. After this, I just stopped tr... See full post

You say you deliver a good example, but you dont. You dont know what a fact is. You just create stories in your head. Please get the help you need I wonder who would hire such a mentally ill and paranoid tennis coach btw. "You only win the games the ATP allows you" But then again, that you coach tennis for a living is probably a figment of your imagination too

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 12:21 PM#394

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58949964#post58949964)

You say you deliver a good example, but you dont. You dont know what a fact is. You just create stories in your head. Please get the help you need I wonder who would hire such a mentally ill and paranoid tennis coach btw. "You only win the games the ATP allows you" But then again, that you coach tennis for a living is probably a figment of your imagination too

Man )) I got your point, seriously. Your reaction - "you are saying bullshit" with no arguments. It's your RIGHT to do it. Read your comment. You just try to insult me with no real thoughts regarding the topic. And i'm not alone who see this.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 12:36 PM#395

Hi, thank your reply, I do hear you. And @donjonnie, I when I played 200 buyins under EV on Stars, I played the games that have the almost the least amount of variance: NLH 9 and 18 max SNGs. Mixed Turbos and Normal. Back in the days these games were considered the best way to build a bankroll without going broke quickly. Even Jonathan Little advices them to build a roll these days. I wanted to duplicate the boku87 challenge. For everyone that doesn't know Thomas Boekhoff aka boku87. He is an online micro stakes legend. Look him and his challenges up. I knew I was good enough to replicate his challenges with a pokerstrategy ICM Trainer score of 97 over good sample sizes. But Stars did not let me. ...For the rest of your answer: Yes you are right, you are assuming and claiming. So there is basically no fundamental truth in your words, and I also did not say that I believe I am doing everything right. You just made that up out of thin air, to probably build a frame base for following discredits. Who knows. Usually disinformation answers and engagements work like that. Probably the next thing will be, to look at older posts, and somehow try to give an impression that what I have to say has no base. Although I am a sucker at even basic math, I was always a winning player/crusher, that was highly under EV. Means: I was even better than my profits and winnings. ...But we are talking rigged rooms here, not if I give you an impression weather I have the right mindset or not. Or If you like my attitude. I will give an answer to the whole community now: I believe if we talk about the idea of the games being rigged by the rooms, we should not put things like: Bankrollmanagement Mindset (You can only control your thoughts etc) into the dispute. These guidelines only apply to loosing players, and would be a step stone to overcome, to even participate in a discussion like this. I gave you the examples of plenty of deposit upswings that I had in my career, funny enough I had another one yesterday and the day before. After having my PokerBros account on zero, I received 300$ rakeback (Deposit), and now I am at 1.150 $ already again. It took me 48 hours and around maybe 8 hours of play do quadrouple my roll. And there is probably more to come... Viktor Blom ALERT 😀 I sat with 20$ at a 0.20/0.40 PLO 5 table and left with 400 $. (20x buyin) I also sat with 30$ at a 0.50/1 PLO 5 table and left with 250 $+ (8x). So the day before yesterday I: 28x ed my buyin within maybe 4 hours. Then yesterday I added some flakes to it. Â… Now transport that into live poker with the adjusted hands per hour in relation, and look for an example, where that was happening the last time you played, if it was even happening at all on a regular basis. Well I experience these things on a regular basis almost every time I cash in somewhere. This somehow does not apply for the rooms where I might have insulted the owner/CEO/and support ...Scheinberg probably got the worst curses I could throw out. ^^ Nagy takes the number 2 spot, for wasting my life energy. Look: I am a winning player over the longrun. I train with Upswing Poker, and RaiseYourEdge material. You can assume, that I am not stuck in 2010. Just the fact that I was in the Spin Legends Gold team, around 2019 or so should raise awareness. Not everyone got in there. You needed credentials and results. And being in there turned you into a Breathing Poker Crusher Machine at the tables! Normal poker players have no idea how much work these teams put into poker.

I just say: Homework, and theory zoom calls, sim analysis on an almost daily basis! That is the stuff people like Fedor Holz did to step up their game. So do I have your attention now? I want to make something clear here: If someone runs under EV it means he IS crushing, but not winning. And he is not just crying like these payed forum desinformants want YOU to believe, so you just blame yourself for getting screwed. Many people who want you to believe that crap also enjoy seeing people suffering. People who put their money in bad, ARE suckers, but winning anyway/or MADE winning on purpose by the rooms, to potentially (it is not proven yet, but highly likely) create an equity balance to print 10x !!!! more money for the room. Keep this in mind as I go on and give a major argument to wrap your head around. I can say that I ALWAYS ran under EV when I tracked my online play, even with Spin Legends where we had massive, massive volume when we grinded on WINAMAX. I was running under EV on every freaking poker site I have played on and printed money. Even when I was crushing Party in MTTs over a 12 months period, grinding hardcore 6 days a week. When I played on stars also grinding like a monster etc. There was NEVER such thing as running according my EV or let alone running over EV in the longrun. I really, really wish this can happen one day. Seriously! Here is the main thought to think about: If variance is such a thing that needs a zillion hands (which indicates, that poker is just gambling, which the payed forum trolls contradictory reject) than I challenge you to show me massive amounts of graphs that show players running massively over EV over a substantial volume and long period of grinding. I highly, highly doubt that this exists on a substantial scale (So I mean a lot, not just a few dudes on high stakes). If variance is that freaking harsh, than the opposite should exist on a frequent basis. Braindead zombies, grinding and winning excessively, putting in volume. Not just one or two MTT sunruns. I mean playing massive volume, and being over EV. Seriously, just the thought that many players playing 6 days a week, 10 hours a day with high volume and running massively over EV is an absurd idea to me. Where are the massive amounts of players showing these cases? The culties and payed disinformant trolls in the poker forums want to make us believe we are all sooooo bad at poker, and just crying babies, when we are under EV. According to them it is allllllll just variance, and we are juuuuuust not mentally strong enough to eat that. LOL? I know Bens (bencb's) opinion about this and his story of variance over time etc. He is not one of these trolls, but I disagree strongly with him. I hear you: Now show me the opposite cases on a regular basis. Not on high stakes, where everything is fair and square, because these players have financial access to tools, that could doom a room when rigging their games. These people are almost all millionaires and can spot a rat very fast. Show this to me on small and mid-mid stakes. You don't have them on a massive scale? Then just be silent. Get your paycheck from PLAYTECH or whatever creepy company and we are fine. This doesn't exist on a big scale, because the online players that constantly drag a crusher under EV are :

  1. Huge amounts of Suckers that are pushed by the room in the short run, by spreading the crusher EV amongst them, to make more profit and bind them to poker.
  2. Housebots of the rooms They don't use housebots? Well William Hill already admitted it back then. So the whole iPoker network aka PLAYTECH is full of house bots! Pokerstrategy.com btw is owned by that company now, in case some don't know. It was sold by Korn to these people. Party Poker secretly separated the player pool, into fish and winners back then. And when it came out, we had a scandal. They said sorry, and shortly after that implemented anonymous tables, with weird arguments. LOL? I know, one has to connect a dot here, that is excelling some peoples capability. Bless you anyway. You think Pokerstars that is runned by this criminal amya gaming (look at their court cases) is not using bots, just because they have not admitted it yet? You do believe in Santa Claus, do you? ...I wanna see Ultra suckers, that are running like gods, on a massive scale, with high volume etc. And not just a few examples. I mean lots of them. Where are these flip side of the coin variance examples? They do not exist on a massive scale like the under EV examples, because the sites are fixing their games. And all the bs about variance and mindset, and work on what you can control is just that. „The games got better argument/myth“ Well although this is true on the surface, it is not true when looking deeper into this topic. I started 2007. If you transport a 2010/15 player into 2025, he will just get destroyed. True that. For him everyone would just be a calling station, and the game would be labeled as a 50/50 gambling fest, where you can not win anymore. Because they will just call everything. Gus Hansen is right now facing this issue, and has to work on his game to get around the change that the game has made. But he will get there for sure. And so will i once a pokerroom lets me win what I should win, and maybe even over EV. But if you put a good amount of work into your game, especially in GTO preflop fundamentals, and board structure analyzing, as well as betting strategies it becomes obvious very fast, how bad players still are!!! Most of them have no idea to analyze your range on certain board structures, with regard to the positional awareness of a preflop action. They might have heard of nut/range advantage but have no idea what it really means, and still call off, because they are dumb fish! And the evidence is their hands that they have at showdown. People still suck! Like they always did. In 2010 as well as 2025. Because they are behind! Bencb looks at this the same way btw. I would never use Mtts as an example, because you can always blame it on variance that you just busted a zillion times in a row close to the money ranks that really make a difference, not just flipping... But never get that AA vs AK through in an allin situation. Or that AA vs 55. Or that AK vs AQ. It somehow always miraculously stops, when it really matters, no matter how much volume you put in. I know, because I grinded Mtts hardcore. I had an extreme ROI, but still was just making basically change in the longrun. The big ones never got through. Busting 13th in the Sunday Million. Busting 8th in the Sunday 200K on Party Poker with AK vs AQ on the river, as he hit the Q I reached that FT twice btw. Winning it the first time. But that also has its own background story. I played Mtts with 22000 Starters and couldn't get past the last 150 people. I have tons of stories. Only a few are allowed to get their hands through and become massive winners, and become promoters and then establish on HS. Spins! They are an excellent example of how rooms fix their games, because you will mostly make it to the headsup as a good player, and see the ridiculous programming of the poker rooms rngs in action, and just be amazed how the chance of hitting one of your cards (30%) turns more into a 50/50 fest. Ok I am overexaggerating here, but you get the point. You will not get anywhere with your skill, because the majority of good player will always run under EV, always run bad, always be a victim of the variance, and never really move up. You will mostly (with few exceptions of course) experience extreme Ups and Downs, and waste huge amounts of time. No format is better than Spins. The action that these rooms create in these is so insane, it is funny. No sane mind will label this as random, especially, when you compare the Spin flop textures and hand dealing to other formats. Why are there no massive over EV examples, if variance is such a thing? And if variance is such a thing, how can poker even be regarded as a skill game? (It is a skill game, because live variance is way less harsh than online) Why are payed poker forum trolls, blame good under EV running players for being terrible at the game, indicating the game is a skill game, and at the same time just blaming variance which takes out the skill factor, which is grotesc as an argument. Plus ignoring that these players are indeed good otherwise they would run over EV. Plus showing zero empathy just using ad hominem attacks all the time? It only shows that they push a on sided agenda. Which is making everyone believe they can win with skill, when in reality these players already should be winners and the rooms are rigging the games for their soulless greed. Finally I'd like to make you aware of something here: People you should be aware of one thing when looking at poker companies, and big companies in general and many of the people/CEOs/owners that run them: There are a lot of humans walking this earth (more than you'd think) that have no empathy at all, and all they live and die for is power and control through money. Their greed is bottomless, and they waste not 1 second of a thought, weather you go down or not or if you are suffering, or not. They simply do not care about you! For them you are just something that can be sacrificed for their own benefit. Furthermore they even enjoy seeing you going down, because it will support their only the strong survive mentality. It will feed their ego and their identity. It will confirm them! They don't understand anything but their own good, and they are willing to to EVERYTHING to come out on top. There are even some very powerful cults in this world, that even believe everyone except them is like an animal and not human. And guess what.. they also have great power over the online poker world. The payed forum trolls are financed by this corner. Childish ideas like: Yeah but they already make so much money through rake duhhhh. is coming from an infantile one sided mindset that has never experienced the various facets of human existence, and is totally ignorant for what is real in this world. Opinions like this show the lack of being able to accept the duality of the world we are in. If you want to know what some people are willing to do to get power and money, just investigate what people do to each other in the cartel wars in Mexico. But I warn you. These realities can be very traumatic just by looking into it, if you are somewhat sensitive and emphatic. I would highly suggest just looking into surface information, and not deep into the actual things that happen there. You will get a different perspective of what people are capable off. There are NO limits to them to get what they want. The normal rules of what drives you and me do not apply there. Maybe this will help you getting a different perspective when looking at money, and power and the dynamics behind the curtain that is invisible to you when looking at the surface of the dynamics of generating profits to companies. Not all of course. I really really hope that the scams of the poker rooms themselves will be revealed quickly, and truly save rooms will rise, that offer fair RNGs and no house bots. Normal bots can still be crushed, because they have certain patterns that can be exploited. But I doubt that, because the power behind this is huge. So lets all run like gods from now on. GL
HelllsrealRegular56 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 12:37 PM#396

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58947804#post58947804)

I play poker since 17 years and deposit rungoods are a fact. I just had three within 2 months. And it is not impossible to prove, it happens in reality.Phenom Poker 300 to 1.700 to 200PokerBros 500 to 1000 to 0Betonline also 100% + Extreme ups all followed by extreme downswings. NOTHING in between.I had them in the past:Stars 2.000 to 26K with a fresh account of my ex girlfrien... See full post

So why do u still play? Only someone not right in his mind stays longterm where he feels he is getting cheated at. Just quit and that's it. U will never understand how Variance works if u didn't get it in the last 17 years.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 1:09 PM#397

by Helllsreal m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950008#post58950008)

So why do u still play? Only someone not right in his mind stays longterm where he feels he is getting cheated at. Just quit and that's it. U will never understand how Variance works if u didn't get it in the last 17 years.

Because I am still winning. It is that simple. And just because you claim that I don't know how variance works, doesn't mean that you know. Added: And for the record lets say that I believe that the majority of the rooms are probably, potentially and likely rigging the games, because the the indices are overwhelming. I will give them the benefit of the doubt, but for sure there are certain rooms, I would never play on again. Pokerstars is one of them for sure!

HelllsrealRegular56 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 1:56 PM#398

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950021#post58950021)

And just because you claim that I don't know how variance works, doesn't mean that you know.

Well yes maybe I missunderstand it too but I certainly won't put up any conspiracy posts online. Those Mtt swings u posted seem completely normal to me. Why is such an accomplished player like u surpised about it? As far as I know if u decide to play Spins and Mtts and play a large volume u literally sign up for this kind of stuff.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 3:02 PM#399

who said beating variance takes a zillion hands? its just not worthy posting small samples of bad luck

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 3:35 PM#400

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58949414#post58949414)

fact, you 2 are delusional. On a professional level actually, unlike your poker skillsAnd this holds true for 100% of your posts so there is no room for errorIf you really think you can predict board outcomes, how come you are not a huge winner?... See full post

"It's a casino" lmao In 2023, I played on 2 casinos. Casino 1 I made five figures profit. Casino 2 I made another five figures profit In 2024, I played on the same 2 sites. Casino 1 I made five figures profit. Casino 2 I made another five figures profit In 2025, I crossed $10k profit in March. Roughly even split profit tally between the 2 sites On site 1, I've seen players blame the site all the time. Been told I work for the site all the time by fish who are so bad they might as well play with their cards face up On site 2, I've seen players blame the site all the time. Been told I work for the site all the time by fish who are so bad they might as well play with their cards face up Site 1 is Global Poker and site 2 is PokerStars PA Not that it matters, because I've been playing online since 2002 and on dozens of sites. You can repeat above for all sites I've ever played on because it's always the same thing on repeat. Am I owed as massive amount of backpay? Lmao... There is no way I'd be able to make well into six figures profit, lifetime, if sites were controlling who wins. Am I the luckiest guy on Earth? I can tell you without equivocation that I am not lol. I don't even think I'm that good of a poker player. Just disciplined. Keeping in line with the vague Rounders reference, I'm like Knish. And you can't be Knish if the sites' RNGs are shifty and the sites control how much you win or lose. I rarely deposit unless it's for any and all bonus offers and I withdraw profit on basically a weekly basis. I don't get cursed on a weekly basis...I never go broke. If a player is going broke, then they don't know how to manage a bankroll and/or aren't disciplined enough and/or simply aren't as good a player as they think they are, or simply have a true loss rate as opposed to win rate which would render the concept of bankroll management moot by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950113#post58950113)

who said beating variance takes a zillion hands? its just not worthy posting small samples of bad luck

Variance obfuscates the true skill level among all participants which is why so many people end up making excuses instead of looking in a mirror. It's also very tricky for even experienced and winning players to understand what is happening and why. I think maybe it's more of an emotional stability thing than intellectual, though some level of intellectual capacity is probably required to even be capable of comprehending the concept itself Or at least that's my theory. It explains why I've seen players I tag as strong players who I'd have thought were generating consistent profit but go broke and/or quit bc of running cold extended periods of time and/or tilting off stacks. The human brain isn't really built for brutal downswings, and especially not if the individual has the wrong mentality or is oblivious to how it is being affected in real time

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 3:54 PM#401

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950134#post58950134)

"It's a casino" lmaoIn 2023, I played on 2 casinos. Casino 1 I made five figures profit. Casino 2 I made another five figures profitIn 2024, I played on the same 2 sites. Casino 1 I made five figures profit. Casino 2 I made another five figures profitIn 2025, I crossed $10k profit in March. Roughly even split profit tally between the 2 sitesOn site 1, I've seen players blame th... See full post

Wow bro, the poker strategy indoctrination really focked up your mind. 😁 Yes we are all winning, and? Still I would win much more, and probably be a millionaire by now, if these sites I played on would not have fixed their stuff. I could play and crush high stakes instead of midstakes games. Ohh yeah I forgot, I am probably just not that good. LOL. Dude once I found a site that lets me get there, I will demolish highstakes.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 4:29 PM#402

by Helllsreal m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950056#post58950056)

Well yes maybe I missunderstand it too but I certainly won't put up any conspiracy posts online. Those Mtt swings u posted seem completely normal to me. Why is such an accomplished player like u surpised about it? As far as I know if u decide to play Spins and Mtts and play a large volume u literally sign up for this kind of stuff.

I didn't post any Mtt swings here. So I really don't know where you take that It looks normal from. I said I ran 200 buyins under EV in SNGs, which is an absolute harsh number. And SNGs are NOT that high variance. Also you have to consider that it was pre GTO solvers around 2012. I was an ICM beast at that time! If you would have seen my MTT downswing around 2015 on Pokerstars, you would question reality �� And around 2020 I sat down at a friends house playing SNGs for around 3 weeks on his Stars account that also seemed doomed. I did massive ICM training before I started to so called crushing the games. What happened was that I was theoretically anihilating these games but the Pokerstars software completly destroyed me. These suckers I played against hit everything in the most absurd ways over and over and over again in a huge samplesize for hours every day. The friend sat next to me with his mouth open and couldn't believe his eyes. He was like wtf is this?! I know the owners can influence stuff at will. I have an example from the past that I won't get into. There is no such thing as luck in this world. Maybe is some peoples head. Everything happens for a purpose. And when one room decides to let me off the leash, I will make HS cry and mark my name into poker history. It is that simple. All it takes, is not seating me with deposit upswinger, and I am good to cush. I will not stop after I have 1 million net profit to my name in live, and 1 million net profit in online. 😉

HelllsrealRegular56 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 5:30 PM#403

^ yes sorry u posted how u ran accounts up and down and not about Mtt swings, my bad. But nowhere u mentioned anything about any upswing(s)? When u were able to build those Rolls from pure Scratch or almost no money, u were obviously also running very well at times.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 6:50 PM#404

by Helllsreal m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950272#post58950272)

^ yes sorry u posted how u ran accounts up and down and not about Mtt swings, my bad. But nowhere u mentioned anything about any upswing(s)? When u were able to build those Rolls from pure Scratch or almost no money, u were obviously also running very well at times.

True that, I had some good runs, but not as good as they should have been. If Viktor managed to turn 2000 $ into 1.7M on Party, then I can at least do 10% of that and 75 or 85x my roll. He 850 xed it! Now he is obviously a super genius and was uber crushing. But I come from the mindset that if you have a crushing not genius edge, you should be building your roll in no time, and move up fast if you can outplay your opponents and get into their head or gto patterns. They shouldn't do **** when you over cbetbet pot 1.5 x in SRPs, because you know that on certain board structures, you have full nutadvantage, an on certain turns you even might block their 2 pair combos and bomb them. No one can tell me that average Joe even thinks in these cathegories. I refuse the bs that is going in some rooms. Especially Stars my most hated toom of all times. I mean wtf. On my own account I couldn't win a hand, and then with a new id + neteller acc of my ex gf, + fresh pc suddenly I ran like god. It was like having a level 1 gaming char boosted up to 99. 😄 Same for Titan poker btw. nn that. ..I need to have no deposit boosted accs or housebots at my table so I can crush and snatch the trophy.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 9, 2025, 9:57 PM#405

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950151#post58950151)

Still I would win much more, and probably be a millionaire by now, if these sites I played on would not have fixed their stuff.

wow, reaching new levels of delusional right here I, for one, should be banging Scarlett Johansson & Jessica Alba but women are rigged against me

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 10, 2025, 10:11 AM#406

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950608#post58950608)

wow, reaching new levels of delusional right here I, for one, should be banging Scarlett Johansson & Jessica Alba but women are rigged against me

Dude what about running under EV don't you understand? Just tell me, I will help you with your issues. I can also help you to get laid for sure

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 10, 2025, 12:14 PM#407

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58951078#post58951078)

Dude what about running under EV don't you understand? Just tell me, I will help you with your issues. I can also help you to get laid for sure

You say you should have been a millionaire, so you actually run ~1 million under ev?? graphs please 🙂

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Apr 10, 2025, 2:22 PM#408

So because you have a decent score on a gto trainer you should be able to duplicate the results of one of the biggest crushers of his day in way way way softer games? you come across incredibly delusional and if you are to be living in the past. Pokerstars is owned by flutter these days. Most of the info you quote is outdated and fragmented. Listen i am not beating poker at the clip I used to either. The fat days are over. by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58949164#post58949164)

Well, guys, let's wait until Curacao answers me... We will understand the situation. Once they reject the license of one room, we will understand how to stop this world wide scam.In fact, you can just test the algorithm I described in English. It works for Pokerstars. And some guys told me, something very similar works for Coin Poker. Just check if you can predict premium hands... See full post

hahahahaha oh boy if you were in the gambling industry you would now how funny what you typed there is. Good luck with the Curacao gaming board I am sure they will revoke the license any day now.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 10, 2025, 4:00 PM#409

Thank you for the detailed opinion of an experienced player. It's good you are brave enough to provide your point of view. Let me comment some parts. May be, full fill your observations with my own ones. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

After having my PokerBros account on zero, I received 300$ rakeback (Deposit), and now I am at 1.150 $ already again.

Did you notice how this really happens? The last hands right before the bankroll loss. It's always the same. You get some huge hand like KK, you double up. You get some QQ hand and double up again. And get x4 stack. Then you get KK once again and the only stack who "beats" you - "accidentally" gets AA. It's like a joke. They simply try to provoke the player - "Wow I just made x4 so fast. Few more luck and I'm back in the business!". It's just THE SAME every time, lol. So cheap, actually. Typical casino tricks. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

These guidelines only apply to loosing players, and would be a step stone to overcome, to even participate in a discussion like this.

Exactly. If I'm right, the most part of active players here who start the conversation - are winning. And they look much more "confident" then others in the chat. We provide concrete materials, we do not talk about "variance" in words. We don't talk about "the feild is getting stronger" in words. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

takes the number 2 spot, for wasting my life energy.

This is exactly what I decided to fight for. Crazy number of people simply waste their lifetime. Yes, some players are satisfied with the situation. Some of them wouldn't EVER win in a fair game. Some of them doesn't put themself higher aims in life. But most part of good players aim to progress and to reach some goals in their lifes. But in fact, they are always under pressure of constant obstacles. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

If someone runs under EV it means he IS crushing, but not winning. And he is not just crying like these payed forum desinformants want YOU to believe, so you just blame yourself for getting screwed. Many people who want you to believe that crap also enjoy seeing people suffering.

Personally, I don't even understand these kind of questions - "why do you play then?", "who said you are good?". Sounds like some low leveled conversation. Who care how well he play? Who care if he is a winning player, since he provides statistics and concrete statements about the game process? Looks like it works in case of some silly people... I don't know. But, in general, yes, this is just unacceptable behavior. Mental illness to simply insult people here with no REAL responsibility for your words. Such a shame. Well, someday forums (and the society in general) will come to kicking this idiots off the forum. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

I can say that I ALWAYS ran under EV when I tracked my online play, even with Spin Legends where we had massive, massive volume when we grinded on WINAMAX.I was running under EV on every freaking poker site I have played on and printed money.Even when I was crushing Party in MTTs over a 12 months period, grinding hardcore 6 days a week.When I played on stars also grinding like ... See full post

Just THE SAME here for Partypoker and Pokerstars. Look, I haven't got as big stats as you do. But in terms of offline poker it's pretty significant. These are my 400 SnG 7$ tournaments. Look at my final table all-ins results.

Man, I don't win the final table all-ins according to my expected chances EVERY 100 tournaments. I haven't EVER won on Stars MORE then I have been expected. But always under 🍰 As a result of this I won 44,2% of 51,6% avg. all-ins. And this is 8% "luck-factor". Yes, I can't use it to "prove" the fraud. (I got something more serious, then this, lol.) But as I have said, i just wanna add some data into your observations. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

If variance is such a thing that needs a zillion hands

Man... It's a special question in the poker community, you know. First. In case such a huge variance could take such a high influence in professional gaming - professional offline tournament poker wouldn't even exist. BUT this genius online-regulars nowadays say - "they suck at poker, who knows if the win money". Okay, cool, deep insight... Significant point of view. But the most important stuff. And here you are lucky to get me, really. Lol, MRP, WHAT IS VARIANCE in words? Look, i'm a professional risk analyst. And some guys just talk about variance like it's a "word". Lol, it's calculations. Sometimes - pretty complicated. When I say about variance on the forum - I provide some concrete numbers. EVEN PROFESSIONAL RISK ANALYST can't TALK about variance BEFORE he shown concrete numbers. It's unassessable without real calculations. MRP. You, TeflonDawg, Slugant and anyone else who say "it's variance" - it's kidish. Like a joke for a professional. Examples. "MTT tournaments got a huge variance" - WOW, really? The statement of a kid who always answers "happens...", "i don't know man, happens". "I played 169 SnGs of the concrete structure and made 90% ROI. A chance to make 0% ROI or less are 0,005%. A chance to go under 12,8% ROI is 0,3%" - THIS IS VARIANCE. And now we can talk about this. Guys (MRP, you understand, it's not towards you), if you say "this is variance" - you show your complete incompetence in terms of poker deviations - in other words, you know NOTHING about variance in poker, if you speak like that. And this can't be obvious only to stupid 18 years old kids. Just an advice. If you hear someone talking about variance, you ask "what are the chances for this variance?". And conversation ends immediately. You hear "It's all, good, it happens in poker" - "Okay, I got your deep insight, good bye!". by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

But if you put a good amount of work into your game, especially in GTO preflop fundamentals, and board structure analyzing, as well as betting strategies it becomes obvious very fast, how bad players still are!!!Most of them have no idea to analyze your range on certain board structures, with regard to the positional awareness of a preflop action. They might have heard of nut/r... See full post

Well, MRP, I would add the most important part here. A key ability of a professional player is bluffing. A good pro player must win at least 40% of pots where he got Nothing. But online poker rooms simply killed bluff. Online players openly say "if you bluff - it's unnecessary risk". And it's just a joke since in a random game you simply can't win without bluffing. Noone will give his chips for free right when you get a good hand. More then that - noone will EVER bring his chips in the pot if you never bluff. It's simply READABLE. BUT - it's not about an online poker, man. Not any more. I know many regulars on SnGs (MTT/heads ups), who just check-call almost every hand and keep winning on a distance, which is not possible. HOW - I have shown you, guys, how iPoker's software puts a "sit-out" player into the flop as many times as it needs to let him get the stack back. The postflop is simply unplayable online. That's why I don't play online any more. It's not a poker game any more. At all. I just wanna remind you this one on iPoker, just to illustrate the situation (I hope we won't find IDIOTs who manage to miss the word "example") Look, I bluff here in a bounty MTT

And right the next hand I fold here with a chip leaders stack on a BOUNTY tournament

Because I do know, how bluff ends in online poker. I know the software. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

Busting 13th in the Sunday Million. Busting 8th in the Sunday 200K on Party Poker with AK vs AQ on the river, as he hit the Q

Yes, they don't let you win significant prize comparing to your bankroll level. If you wanna get this kind of prize you should deposite a valuable amount of funds to "cover" acceptable bankroll growth level. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

Spins!

))) Well, playing spins through a postflop is simply senseless according to my analysis of a sit-out player, MRP. But if you use push-fold really well, the software will put your opponent on a better starter as many times as it needs before you finally push your hand. Your opponent just needs to push "call" button at least once. And you won't prove ANYTHING, since his hands are hidden. Playing spins without running a huge amount of tables is simply senseless. Only then software will allow to win something, according to a huge activity of player in the room. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

There are a lot of humans walking this earth (more than you'd think) that have no empathy at all, and all they live and die for is power and control through money.

I have read some stories of the sport betting companies owners (who also own poker-rooms itself) - they seem to be simply mentally ill people who connect their lives with criminal for a reason of earning huge amount of money which they do not really need for living. Simply primitive inside people. Yes, you are totally right. What people are we can see right here in this chat. It's easy. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950006#post58950006)

I really really hope that the scams of the poker rooms themselves will be revealed quickly, and truly save rooms will rise, that offer fair RNGs and no house bots. Normal bots can still be crushed, because they have certain patterns that can be exploited. But I doubt that, because the power behind this is huge.

Let's see what's coming. In my opinion, if my materials of clear description of the software algorithm of iPoker (the SAME algo - Pokerstars) and the statistical proof of clear openly done rigging of the postflop won't lead this to the end... It will be a real problem, means were are not under protection of laws any more. And poker sphere is just unregulated. I will post all the answers of Gambling Supervisors a bit later.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 10, 2025, 4:29 PM#410

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950134#post58950134)

"It's a casino" lmao In 2023, I played on 2 casinos. Casino 1 I made five figures profit. Casino 2 I made another five figures profit In 2024, I played on the same 2 sites. Casino 1 I made five figures profit. Casino 2 I made another five figures profit In 2025, I crossed $10k profit in March. Roughly even split profit tally between the 2 sites

TD. First - it's really good you managed to win online. Seriously. But no one says it's impossible to win online. Almost everyone here in the chat, who talks about the fraud are not satisfied with the amount won. The game should be fair. by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950134#post58950134)

Variance obfuscates the true skill level among all participants which is why so many people end up making excuses instead of looking in a mirror. It's also very tricky for even experienced and winning players to understand what is happening and why. I think maybe it's more of an emotional stability thing than intellectual, though some level of intellectual capacity is probably ... See full post

Agree here and we will test a real ability of players to resist variance. At the moment it's a fraud, it's not a variance. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950196#post58950196)

The friend sat next to me with his mouth open and couldn't believe his eyes. He was like wtf is this?!

You would enjoy playing from my account man 😃 Especially after I decided to test Pokerstars software and started to fold huge hands "in time" )) by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950196#post58950196)

There is no such thing as luck in this world. Maybe is some peoples head. Everything happens for a purpose.

This is exactly what is going one, and I describe how it works in details in my video. But looks like the material is too hard to understand for people. I did my best to explain, though... Yes, the gaming process is totally controlled by the software. Every hand. It's really impressive. I was like WTF when realized what is going on and successfully tested my assumptions regarding the card dealing algorithm. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950608#post58950608)

Jessica Alba

She has been my all time favorite...♥ Before I found a true love - Alycia Debnem-Carey ♥♥ by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58951203#post58951203)

hahahahaha oh boy if you were in the gambling industry you would now how funny what you typed there is. Good luck with the Curacao gaming board I am sure they will revoke the license any day now.

I doubt they (Curacao) revoke the license. What do you think about The UKGC? (The UK Gambling Comission)

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 10, 2025, 6:21 PM#411

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58951287#post58951287)

Just an advice. If you hear someone talking about variance, you ask "what are the chances for this variance?". And conversation ends immediately. You hear "It's all, good, it happens in poker" - "Okay, I got your deep insight, good bye!".

The fact that variance happens doesn't mean anything is possible in the real world. When variance exceeds 2 standard deviations it's considered to be high and is significant. When it exceeds 3 standard deviations it's considered to be an outlier and a rare event. Here is what ChatGPT calculated the odds of my results were.

I also posted graphs of all my all in hands that I lost (11 million chips) where my EV consistently hovered around the zero axis as well as my hit rate with premium hands. How so many can argue that this isn't at least suspicious, is delusional.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 10, 2025, 10:00 PM#412

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58951419#post58951419)

The fact that variance happens doesn't mean anything is possible in the real world. When variance exceeds 2 standard deviations it's considered to be high and is significant. When it exceeds 3 standard deviations it's considered to be an outlier and a rare event. Here is what ChatGPT calculated the odds of my results were. I also posted graphs of all my all in hands that I lo... See full post

Yeah, this is not just "at least suspicious". If all the calculations and the data is correct it's simply unacceptable and happens once in 2 000 000 tournaments played in average, approximately. Comparing to real life gaming. This kind of stuff - is a pure rigging of the game against a profitable player who would withdraw money from the room in case of winning his equity.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 10, 2025, 11:39 PM#413

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58951635#post58951635)

Yeah, this is not just "at least suspicious". If all the calculations and the data is correct it's simply unacceptable and happens once in 2 000 000 tournaments played in average, approximately. Comparing to real life gaming. This kind of stuff - is a pure rigging of the game against a profitable player who would withdraw money from the room in case of winning his equity.

And on top of the fact I have lost more than 50% of my EV, my average all-in equity is 51.63% And that's with about 9% of my all in hands having 3 or more players in the hand. So not only do I have a huge EV advantage (basically 2 to 1) but my equity is above 50%. And I have people here saying that's just normal variance. WOW

PetterPLONewbie2 posts
Posted Apr 11, 2025, 1:14 AM#414

I started off with +30 buyin swing at WPT poker. But since then I havent been able to win any all-in at all. Its like they put on a doomswitch on my account. xD So now im back to scratch

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 11, 2025, 12:40 PM#415

you all suck at poker /thread

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 11, 2025, 5:15 PM#416

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58937543#post58937543)

... The only problem as of now is rngs arent nearly as could as they are supposed to be when volume is low. U will see many unexpected things aka bad beats, bad run outs, long shots hitting when volume is low. For RNG to work items best it needs volume and new sites don't have that.

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58913132#post58913132)

See the problem becomes I do not think it's rigged. But when you ask any sight about their dealing they always say it's fair, they never say it's random. And this is how they get around it. So for example if I deal you pocket aces more often than you should get it there's no problem with that as long as I deal everybody else the same amount of times. I mean if one guy is gettin... See full post

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58951603#post58951603)

Nobody is saying it's Rigged. I am saying computer programs have limitations. And they act differently when there's 100 people playing compared to when there's 100,000 people playing.b I had a stretch playing the same guy and he got his money in somewhere around 20 times with less than a 15% chance to win and won all 20 times. ...

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58945154#post58945154)

... But I've spoken with people that certify random generators they say as long as everybody's getting for example more flushes than they should it's then Fair. But if it was randomly dealt that wouldn't happen. But if you take the amount of time someone's supposed to hit a flush as long as everybody's hitting a flush as an example more often it's still then technically fair. I... See full post

If it were true that everybody is hitting flushes, (or whatever), at the same rate as each other, then yes, as you say, that's a fair deal for everyone. If some are given flushes, by design, more than others, then that is a rigged deal. As you are saying, "Something ain't adding up", that must mean you think the deal is rigged. Especially when you say, "... you get the same one or two guys every single day getting their money in with 10% or less of a chance to win and they consistently keep hitting cards day after day week after week", and, "... he got his money in somewhere around 20 times with less than a 15% chance to win and won all 20 times". (Does that mean they are being dealt far more gutshot cards than anybody else?) But then you also often say, "I do not think it's rigged", and, "Nobody is saying it's Rigged". Please tell us what you really think.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 11, 2025, 6:06 PM#417

Hey Johnmir, yeah I used the term (a zilllion hands with regard to variance), because as soon as one talks about the hands that were played, the trolls will demand more. It is always like that. Their strategy is to never be satisfied, always demand more or something else, always blame the player and downplay the amount of hands that were played. In my case as a professional grinder and winning player for years, I obviously played an astronomic amount of hands. Now even when I say I played 200 buyins under EV in 9-18 max NLH SNGs on of the saves bankroll building formats, then they will b1tch about something else. Then suddenly 200 buyins are not much, which is a ridiculous statement, or they will just distract and b1tch about my ICM trainer score that is ridiculously high, and even talk about GTO trainer score, and mix that up. I come with some obscure laughable ad hominem attack that focuses on (the way I speak/write) to somehow create the impression, their toxic trash can convince someone, and their agenda goes through. ^^ These fk.n people. ^^ Just irrelevant losers and sockers. A waste of my time.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 12, 2025, 2:43 PM#418

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58952282#post58952282)

Hey Johnmir,yeah I used the term (a zilllion hands with regard to variance), because as soon as one talks about the hands that were played,the trolls will demand more. It is always like that. Their strategy is to never be satisfied, always demand more or something else, always blame the player and downplay the amount of hands that were played.In my case as a professional grinde... See full post

MRP, yes, and the best thing you can do is just point out the dialog manipulation. You perfectly did that. BUT - the only way to influence is sending the materials to the authorities. That's why I did this. Here on the forum, I tried to "inform" people about what is going on. And everyone decides himself. Makes all the reasonable conclusions regarding the significance on the information.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 12, 2025, 6:19 PM#419

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58952213#post58952213)

If it were true that everybody is hitting flushes, (or whatever), at the same rate as each other, then yes, as you say, that's a fair deal for everyone. If some are given flushes, by design, more than others, then that is a rigged deal.As you are saying, "Something ain't adding up", that must mean you think the deal is rigged. Especially when you say, "... you get the same one ... See full post

I am saying that at this point I think we realize that not all sites spend the same amount of money on their random generators. Some really care about integrity in the upkeep of their sites others don't. So you're bound to see different results on different sites. Now phenom poker has told me themselves in an email that they're a different levels of certification for random number generators. I was not actually aware of this. But I guess if you're willing to spend more money you get a better certification. Now does that make sense to you?

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 12, 2025, 6:57 PM#420

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953190#post58953190)

I am saying that at this point I think we realize that not all sites spend the same amount of money on their random generators. Some really care about integrity in the upkeep of their sites others don't. So you're bound to see different results on different sites. Now phenom poker has told me themselves in an email that they're a different levels of certification for random num... See full post

Certificates really don't mean nothing when it comes to randomness in online poker. Certificates can be bought. This is a billion $ industry, and corruption is huge in businesses. There are always people that have their price. Deposit upswings followed excessive downswings happen in all of them for many, many people, but some lucky ones, depending also on region and behavior etc. Running under EV and spreaded EV in the fishs favor is standard for most players. Nothing in this business is random. Even strategy forum posts, streaming and YT will affect it. They receive their certificates either by real tests or by corruption money, and then run their scam profit algorithms again. The regulation is just in place so the governments that are even more criminal than any mafia can get a share from that cake. Phenom also gave me an absurd upswing, followed by an extreme downswing. It is like a switch they activate. There is nothing in between. Phenoms dead anyway. And even if the intentions of Phenom are pure, then the algorithm is just trash. Whoever builds them.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 12, 2025, 7:03 PM#421

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953190#post58953190)

I am saying that at this point I think we realize that not all sites spend the same amount of money on their random generators. Some really care about integrity in the upkeep of their sites others don't. So you're bound to see different results on different sites. Now phenom poker has told me themselves in an email that they're a different levels of certification for random num... See full post

Would you mind posting the e-mail exchanges? I've never heard of anything like that either and am intrigued/curious

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 12, 2025, 11:25 PM#422

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953238#post58953238)

Would you mind posting the e-mail exchanges? I've never heard of anything like that either and am intrigued/curious

I will have to look to see if I save them. Generally I just erase all that stuff

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 13, 2025, 12:17 AM#423

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953189#post58953189)

I am saying that at this point I think we realize that not all sites spend the same amount of money on their random generators. Some really care about integrity in the upkeep of their sites others don't. So you're bound to see different results on different sites. Now phenom poker has told me themselves in an email that they're a different levels of certification for random num... See full post

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953238#post58953238)

Would you mind posting the e-mail exchanges? I've never heard of anything like that either and am intrigued/curious

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953454#post58953454)

I will have to look to see if I save them. Generally I just erase all that stuff

If you have erased these e-mails you are using as your source of important information for us to believe, please ask them to copy them to you for you to post here. Otherwise, some might believe you are simply making it up. In the case of Phenom Poker, their Certificate (https://access.gaminglabs.com/Certificate/Index?i=530) states: "The product listed within this certificate has been successfully tested to generally accepted industry standards for highly regulated jurisdictions" and "Gaming Laboratories International, LLC (GLI) is a fully independent and accredited testing laboratory (ISO/IEC 17025) and product certification body (ISO/IEC 17065) contracted by gaming industry operators and software and hardware suppliers to perform third-party testing, auditing and certification services. Working on behalf of gaming authorities, GLI verifies technical compliance with the standard(s) and/or jurisdictional regulation(s) adopted by the gaming authorities. Should you have questions or concerns we encourage you to contact the relevant gaming authority" and "This certificate signifies that the product(s) listed has been evaluated to applicable standards and/or jurisdictional regulation(s)". Their rep here has stated: by PhenomMike m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58942295#post58942295)

... if you feel there is something more than variance happening, please feel free to reach out to me and I will research it.

No, jungmit, your response doesn't make sense to me. I can't see how they can have any choice in the cost or type of certification when the GLI is working on behalf of the gaming authorities that ensure the RNG is satisfactory for them to issue a gaming licence subject to their published rules. I can't imagine how a RNG that differs in the results of cards dealt out when different numbers of players are involved could pass any sort of tests or be vouched for as any industry's standard. If there was any one single poker site in the world, big or small, that is honest in its dealings with its customers, they themselves would undoubtedly make it well known in their marketing that any of their competitors who were using a totally useless tester could not be trusted.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 13, 2025, 3:17 AM#424

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953489#post58953489)

If you have erased these e-mails you are using as your source of important information for us to believe, please ask them to copy them to you for you to post here. Otherwise, some might believe you are simply making it up.In the case of Phenom Poker, their Certificate (https://access.gaminglabs.com/Certificate/Index?i=530) states:"The product listed within this certificate has been successfully tested to ... See full post

What I'm telling you is my understanding is to pass a test you have to just deal the cards fairly. As long as everybody gets the same crazy stuff happening to them it's considered fair. I gave the example of flush draws. Let's give the example of you're supposed to get pocket aces once every 220 hands well what if you got them once every 160 hands? As long as everybody got them every 160 hands then it would be considered Fair. Well that's something different than saying we're 100% random. As for the email I have asked them to resend me the email again I will see if I get it. I am telling u I have spoken tongsming associates years ago about this. I asked them if they check for more aces or kings dealt. He said u are thinking about this the wrong way. He said to get a certificate this is the test we do its like bringing in your car to us. We won't check the engine all we do is turn the key to make sure it starts. So as long as the rng works u get a certificate. Give gaming associates a call and ask them. Not much required to getting a certification.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 13, 2025, 10:20 AM#425

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953489#post58953489)

If you have erased these e-mails you are using as your source of important information for us to believe, please ask them to copy them to you for you to post here. Otherwise, some might believe you are simply making it up.In the case of Phenom Poker, their Certificate (https://access.gaminglabs.com/Certificate/Index?i=530) states:"The product listed within this certificate has been successfully tested to ... See full post

Dude seriously you believe someone that has background knowledge about international commerce, astertoric sealaw and Delaware collateral accounts, that is backed up by an former accreditated diplomatic person with the highest UN clearance even gives a damn about what you quote here? You have zero idea in what kind of world you live in, when you start posting these good sounding redundant certificate and jurisdiction statements. You probably still believe that souverain states exist and bridges and schools are build by taxes. Any poker room can regulate their rng by will, by switching a freaking button. This is a billion dollar industry! Nothing in there is by chance. It doesn't matter which so called independent iTech lab has ever once ran a test, and didn't find anything suspicious at that specific time. How naive are you, you still believe in Santa Claus do you? And the government loves you and is you friend right? Go back to sleep please.

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 13, 2025, 11:38 AM#426

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953548#post58953548)

What I'm telling you is my understanding is to pass a test you have to just deal the cards fairly. As long as everybody gets the same crazy stuff happening to them it's considered fair. I gave the example of flush draws. Let's give the example of you're supposed to get pocket aces once every 220 hands well what if you got them once every 160 hands? As long as everybody got them... See full post

You should read and try to understand this Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation). Whether the site uses a HRNG or a PRNG doesn't really matter to provide a fair game as what cards will fall next is impossible to foresee in the case of the HRNG, and, in the case of the PRNG, its current state would have to be known. I see now why you think it matters whether there are fewer players or more players receiving cards at the same time. Making it simple, in your head, you believe if there were only two players playing with a PNRG in operation, and one of them knew the current state, and knew the order of cards that was going to be dealt, and that order was only a few cards, (say, A5A678T3AKAKAQJ294, repeat, repeat, etc), then either one or the other would win every hand dealt, predetermined by whoever was dealt the first card, and when both never fold. In reality, it would be extremely rare that only two players were playing; that the current state was known by one of those two; that there are only a few cards in the known sequence that repeats; that the uninformed player wouldn't notice he kept receiving the same hole cards with the same board cards; that the GLI would ever pass a PNRG that repeated the same sequence over only a few cards; that the seed value wasn't changed; etc; etc. In other words, once other players enter a game on the site and receive hole cards, or someone folds unexpectedly for some reason, or whatever interrupts the flow of cards in the game of the person that somehow knows what card will be dealt next somewhere on the site, everyone might as well be playing with a HRNG deck. Of course, this doesn't answer why your AA was beaten HU 20 times in a row, (or whatever it was you claimed), and I would say either you made that up or that your memory of the game is incorrect. (It's very hard to believe the GLI would ever pass any PNRG that was dealing an Ace 40 times in 180 cards in the sequence it would know was going to be produced. The GLI is quite obviously looking for sequences where Aces, Kings, Queens, etc, etc, are each being produced by a PNGR at the rate of once every thirteen cards, to pass it, in order to meet Authorities' demands.) In fact, you said, (correctly), above, "Let's give the example of you're supposed to get pocket aces once every 220 hands well what if you got them once every 160 hands? As long as everybody got them every 160 hands then it would be considered Fair. Well that's something different than saying we're 100% random." Before, you were claiming your opponent was getting an Ace once in every four-and-a-half cards. (You might not have been claiming that, actually, but I hope you get the point.) There isn't a player anywhere that would play again on a site where they often saw a long sequence of one Ace in every five cards exposed. E&OE

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 13, 2025, 2:35 PM#427

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953736#post58953736)

You should read and try to understand this Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation). Whether the site uses a HRNG or a PRNG doesn't really matter to provide a fair game as what cards will fall next is impossible to foresee in the case of the HRNG, and, in the case of the PRNG, its current state would have to be known. I see now why you think it matters whether there are fewer players or more players rec... See full post

I am not believing anybody can see cards or know any sequence of order that the cars are going to come out on. I am saying when there are less people on the odds have to add up to what they're supposed to add up to if it's random. So for example say once every 1500 hands somebody's going to hit a royal flush well when you only have three tables in play somebody's going to hit that royal flush on one of those three tables. They're also going to hit quads on one of those three tables they're also going to hit x amount of full houses on one of those three tables and it's all going to happen on one of those three tables. But if you have a thousand tables going the chance of you seeing it your table are virtually zero. So I'm saying when there are fewer tables going you're going to see more crazy things happen because they have to happen at those tables if they don't happen at those tables then the odds are not going to hold up to what they're supposed to be

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 13, 2025, 6:20 PM#428

Here's a great hand someone posted from a site that I would consider the worst RNG of any site I ever played. The spend zero money on site, most likely did not pass any test to get a certificate, as they never had one for a long time. When questioned about it they always had some answer. I personally think they just lost something in their site to keep people quiet. I once tried to contract who ever it was they said they got the certificate from and that company had no idea wtf I was talking about. Shady stuff. But anyway here is the hand. If it makes you feel better, I recently was 4 tabling on ignition and had AAkq (double suited) and AAqj (double suited) at the same time on two of the tables at the same time. Flopped A44 on one board and A55 on the other. Lost to j755 (one suit) and t944 (rainbow) in 4 bet pots on both.

jaykrzRegular39 posts
Posted Apr 14, 2025, 4:29 PM#429

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58952054#post58952054)

There is no downloadable hand history though. How would I post hands?But I give will give you one of my favorites from memory. I'm playing this guy heads up I have ace 665 with two hearts in pot limit Omaha. The flop comes down six four Queen with two hearts. I bet the guy raises I re-rays we get it all in he has King 10 9x. Yes you read that right Queen 65 flop this guy gets a... See full post

You can browse old hands from the hand replayer. There is a datetime picker to go back several days, you will just have to find them.... which kinda sucks. But they should be there.

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 14, 2025, 7:42 PM#430

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58953826#post58953826)

I am not believing anybody can see cards or know any sequence of order that the cars are going to come out on. I am saying when there are less people on the odds have to add up to what they're supposed to add up to if it's random. So for example say once every 1500 hands somebody's going to hit a royal flush well when you only have three tables in play somebody's going to hit t... See full post

Your conclusion is wrong again, I'm afraid. If it was correct that someone is going to hit a royal flush once every 1500 hands, on average, (it would not be something that would happen at those odds, as you know; I think it would be about once in every 31,000 hands, but for the purpose of ease of discussion ...), then, yes, if each of the three tables is going to have 500 hands dealt at them, then a royal flush would be seen on one of the tables. If each of the three tables played 1500 hands, then it would be reasonably likely that a royal flush would be seen once on each table. As we're saying that those odds are correct, then the players at each table are reasonably likely to see one royal flush at the "correct" odds, meeting their expectations, and therefore nothing is rotten in the State of Denmark. Nothing about what players would see (if they knew all the hands that had been dealt) when only a few are playing is (long term) crazy, odds-wise. Unless you think the deal is rigged, of course; which you don't, you have said.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 14, 2025, 8:19 PM#431

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58955343#post58955343)

Your conclusion is wrong again, I'm afraid.If it was correct that someone is going to hit a royal flush once every 1500 hands, on average, (it would not be something that would happen at those odds, as you know; I think it would be about once in every 31,000 hands, but for the purpose of ease of discussion ...), then, yes, if each of the three tables is going to have 500 hands ... See full post

I was told many years ago that u would see more unlikely things when less tables are in play. I also emailed phenom back to ask about verification and they never responded.

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 14, 2025, 9:02 PM#432

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58955401#post58955401)

I was told many years ago that u would see more unlikely things when less tables are in play. I also emailed phenom back to ask about verification and they never responded.

I'm glad I've been able to show you why that information was incorrect. It's easy to think you are experiencing crazy stuff at the tables. Sometimes it's because of your opponents' results, but, thankfully, it's also sometimes because of your own. Pick your tables, play well and consistently every time you sit down, don't tilt, ignore past hands, and over time you'll find that your bankroll will gradually increase. Good luck.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 14, 2025, 10:13 PM#433

Couple of additional stats to add that are suspicious. I drew KK 175 times and saw the flop 143 times. 42 times, one or more aces hit the flop. That's 29.37% when the probability that an ace will hit the flop before any cards are dealt is 21.73%. Again (similar to AK, AQ and AJ missing the flop) 2.21 standard deviations from the mean. I also hit 3 aces 38 times. I lost my set of aces 15 times. That's 39.47% when the average times other sets lost was about 24 - 25%. There other stats I would like to review as well that I'm pretty sure is happening but it would require a review of every single hand because the software doesn't have a way to filter the hands. If an online poker site intended to skew the odds to make it more luck based, this is how they would do it. Make an ace hit the flop more often when facing pocket kings. Make AK, AQ, AJ miss the flop more than they should. Draw 3 suited more often when facing a straight or set. And the result is it makes winning only 49.33% of your EV possible.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 14, 2025, 11:11 PM#434

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58955460#post58955460)

I'm glad I've been able to show you why that information was incorrect. It's easy to think you are experiencing crazy stuff at the tables. Sometimes it's because of your opponents' results, but, thankfully, it's also sometimes because of your own. Pick your tables, play well and consistently every time you sit down, don't tilt, ignore past hands, and over time you'll find that ... See full post

I understand all that. And just to bring you up to date I do fine playing online poker I've never had a losing year in 20 years. I'm just telling you the stuff you experience on some sites is unlike anything you experience anywhere else. For example when I'm all in on ignition poker and I'm an 85% favorite I get smashed 60% of the time. I used a poker tracker there. So I have all the results from it and I'm saying this is just something that's happened for many many years there. Why does it happen? I don't know I just think the site possibly has terrible software

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 15, 2025, 12:15 AM#435

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58955612#post58955612)

None of that is possible, and none of that is needed. All they have to do is make situations occur more often for everybody as a whole. So for example when you flop a flush draw you're going to hit that first drawer approximately 35% of the time. Well all they need to do is make the flush draw come in say 40% of the time. Well that's going to create a scenario that's lopsided o... See full post

First of all I can prove it happened so saying the results are impossible is ridiculous. Second who said it is rigged to make one person win? As I actually stated, if an online poker site intended to skew the odds to make it more luck based, etc.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 15, 2025, 10:29 AM#436

how can you prove it? because everyone can alter a db, but you dont even provide a db screenshot. its all just words and claims, never seen any evidence (and an excel sheet of self provided numbers isnt evidence fyi)

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 15, 2025, 3:13 PM#437

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956015#post58956015)

how can you prove it? because everyone can alter a db, but you dont even provide a db screenshot. its all just words and claims, never seen any evidence (and an excel sheet of self provided numbers isnt evidence fyi)

Is that the best you can do? First you claim the sample is way too small. Then I prove you don't know what you are talking about and now you claim I altered the database because you can't discredit anything I've said. The fact that you are now claiming I altered the database is an admission that the results are indisputable evidence that the RNG is skewed, otherwise there would be no need to claim I altered it. And it also proves that there isn't any evidence you would accept, and you will make any claim to deny the possibility that poker sites might skew things. But you are not a shill. Truely pathetic.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 15, 2025, 3:44 PM#438

You want to read it again, i said Everyone can alter a db. I dont know if you have because you never posted a screenshot of your db where these things happen. They are just stories. Mostly in your head. I dont claim you alter your db, I do claim you are mentally ill and unfit to play poker Still waiting for some evidence though... isnt it weird that in 93.365 posts about rigged poker there isnt a single post that includes any actual evidence? (so not story or own excel based ranting) 😉

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 15, 2025, 4:18 PM#439

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956220#post58956220)

You want to read it again, i said Everyone can alter a db.I dont know if you have because you never posted a screenshot of your db where these things happen. They are just stories. Mostly in your head.I dont claim you alter your db, I do claim you are mentally ill and unfit to play pokerStill waiting for some evidence though... isnt it weird that in 93.365 posts about rigged po... See full post

I love the way you and you friends passively suggest something so you can deny it later. You bring up something in response to my post and then claim you weren't claiming it. And if you aren't claiming it, why are you asking for a screenshot of my database about something you now claim you aren't claiming. You proved you are lying.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 15, 2025, 9:27 PM#440

I always said the 2 worst RNG I ever played on, and I would lay money if any site was rigged it would be these 2, were ignition and cake poker. I actually used to be an affiliate with cake poker and I still emailed them many hands saying I don't believe in the RNG. I just watch a video, which I never knew about, that showed the did actually rig the game. Audit showed that results were statistically impossible. Makes u think that is cake poker can do why not others ? I mean cake for away with it for years.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 15, 2025, 9:42 PM#441

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956266#post58956266)

I love the way you and you friends passively suggest something so you can deny it later. You bring up something in response to my post and then claim you weren't claiming it. And if you aren't claiming it, why are you asking for a screenshot of my database about something you now claim you aren't claiming. You proved you are lying.

still no evidence huh? guess you have nothing to prove your crazy ramblings with 🙂 except quoting someone else's post from 2020 (this just screams insanity) If everyone that thinks not all the sites are rigged are my friends, are you friends with Johnmir and all the other disgruntled micro/losing players who keep on playing game they think its rigged?? If I think all online chess is rigged im not going to play for money there. You just keep on being mad and making wild claims with zero proof. Or you can get the professional mental help you so desperately need. Although I can tell you in advance, they will advise you to stop playing poker. Which would be for the better for you 😉

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 1:22 AM#442

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956536#post58956536)

why not share the video with this conclusive evidence of rigging then? Would certainly help the discussion for your friends according to amazing🙂

Nothing is conclusive. The video was just about the scandals of online poker sites. I was not even aware that cake polka got caught rigging the deck but I guess that's exactly what happened. Let me ask you this where's cake polka now? Why are they out of business? Polka sites only go out of business usually for one reason they get caught scamming. Because really it's a profitable business when you think about it as long as you're not stealing money, or scamming, are rigging the deck why would you go out of business?

Lil LarussoNewbie4 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 2:25 AM#443

Slugant is a joke. This scrub is defending sites that have already been caught having superusers lmao. You are a joke Slugant and you will get karma for defending obvious criminal scam sites. BTW i have an ability of 97 on sharkscope and grinded 100 to 20k and it was very easy on GG Ontario and after I withdrew the money and tried to build up again my account got doomswitched. I have been a slightly losing player over the last 600 plus tournaments with a 97 ability. I repeat... i grinded 100 to 20 k through around 1600 tournaments and after i withdrew the money and started from scratch i now supposedly cant beat the super fish in ontario midstakes. What is your name on GG Slugant?

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 11:00 AM#444

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956675#post58956675)

Nothing is conclusive. The video was just about the scandals of online poker sites. I was not even aware that cake polka got caught rigging the deck but I guess that's exactly what happened. Let me ask you this where's cake polka now? Why are they out of business? Polka sites only go out of business usually for one reason they get caught scamming. Because really it's a profitab... See full post

It was about ten or more years ago now, but I think I remember that CakePoker was bought by LockPoker, whose CEO was Jennifer Larson, a former Bodog employee, who is still on the run for stealing millions of dollars of players' money by not paying withdrawals. I don't remember CakePoker or LockPoker having been proved as being riggers of the deck; but why would they bother risking that and driving away customers, when the gameplan seems to have been to steal all the deposits? The more the better, from their pov. A quick Google finds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake_Netwo... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake_Network) and https://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-room-ne... (https://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-room-news/26762-lock-poker-finally-closes-owing-millions/). For anybody interested, the truth of the whole story is out there to be found, and much of it can be found with simple Searches of the forums here.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 12:37 PM#445

by Lil Larusso m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956716#post58956716)

BTW i have an ability of 97 on sharkscope and grinded 100 to 20k and it was very easy on GG Ontario and after I withdrew the money and tried to build up again my account got doomswitched. I have been a slightly losing player over the last 600 plus tournaments with a 97 ability.Heres Slugant..... the scrub grinding micro stakes for 15 years and defending a site that has alread... See full post

First of all, quite tough of you to make a new account for this, really amazing😉 Second, I made close to a million in my lifetime career as online poker players while you "brag" about winning 20k but then becoming a losing player with 97 ability lolol and you call me a micro stakes grinder. Sounds like you are the micro grinder, and in fact even a losing one. And I dont play GG like I said in the other thread. Dont like their PVI slashing my rakeback while paying way too much rake to begin with because of preflop rake.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 12:37 PM#446

Guys, I didn't manage to read you since I had to finish the analysis. Even now, I'm sending you the message being not aware of the conversation, sorry. I will read you a bit later with pleasure. But, still, it's too important to mention. https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956... (https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956941#post58956941) In case you didn't get the true meaning of my postflop analysis against a sit-out player on heads-up. The following analysis is simply the evidence of rigging with no a "but". The software provokes a player in case he decided to avoid playing postflop and folds few strong preflop hands. Any opinions? I wanna make sure, you did understand the information. It's not a joke, actually.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 12:53 PM#447

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956675#post58956675)

Nothing is conclusive. The video was just about the scandals of online poker sites. I was not even aware that cake polka got caught rigging the deck but I guess that's exactly what happened. Let me ask you this where's cake polka now? Why are they out of business? Polka sites only go out of business usually for one reason they get caught scamming. Because really it's a profitab... See full post

I played on the Merge network on a couple different skins when Cake became Lock Poker. Pretty sure they (Cake and Lock) were simply just not sustainable and went out of business like any other site would in that environment Black Friday and the UIGEA basically made it impossible for a lot of sites to survive by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956949#post58956949)

Guys, I didn't manage to read you since I had to finish the analysis. Even now, I'm sending you the message being not aware of the conversation, sorry. I will read you a bit later with pleasure.But, still, it's too important to mention.https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956... (https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956941#post58956941)In case you didn't get the true meaning of my postflop analysis against a sit-out player... See full post

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/misc.... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=1845645)

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 1:39 PM#448

Johnmir, watching your youtube video reminds me of people talking about how the earth is flat. They have no evidence, are 100% sure they are right, keep on rambling incoherently and have an unstable look in their eyes. These people are sick and need help. And im afraid you and your friends Larusso & Amazing need that help too.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 1:50 PM#449

Let me summarize my interactions with Slugant. I post my results that show unrealistic variance, and his first reply is to claim my sample size is way too low, which he no doubt has been claiming for years in an attempt to troll forum members. I then expose his BS and obliterate in his claim with actually textbook excerpts that expose the nonsense he has been claiming for years. I continue to post my results with screenshots and provide mathematically proven equations with links to websites that confirm my statements. Because he can't discredit any of the evidence and can no longer make his BS claim, he just trolls the forum claiming anyone who disagrees with him is delusional and mentally unstable. He them makes up additional criteria that others must provide to prove their claims (while he himself has never provided any evidence for his claims) and then lies about it while trolling the forums because he can't actually discredit any of the evidence. But unlike him I don't just claim something and say it is true because I say so, I actually provide evidence. And here is what psychological studies say about internet trolls like him. Talk about mentally unstable. https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/... (https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists)

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 2:09 PM#450

If one of us is trolling, its you. At least, i hope so. Because otherwise you would be dedicating so much time and effort to a game that you think is rigged against you on many sites. Also, you say you've provided evidence but you haven't. If you have actual proof of sites rigging than you can take that evidence to court and sue their asses. You would actually, for the first time, make some decent money out of poker. Why do you not do this? If you have a weird theory in your head but you cannot prove it and then see people not going along with your nonsense, its not because they are trolls or sadists. Its because they are not idiots. In your next post, please provide the evidence of sites rigging. Otherwise everyone knows you are troll and you have nothing to back up your outrageous claims. And good luck in court sueing all the sites😉

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 3:25 PM#451

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58957018#post58957018)

If one of us is trolling, its you. At least, i hope so. Because otherwise you would be dedicating so much time and effort to a game that you think is rigged against you on many sites. Also, you say you've provided evidence but you haven't. If you have actual proof of sites rigging than you can take that evidence to court and sue their asses. You would actually, for the first ti... See full post

It's actually not that much time, especially using the poker software, which is why I never did it before. Just because it takes a lot of time for you doesn't mean it isn't simple to do for me. LOL And as far you being a troll you clearly exhibit those traits. You lie, you're manipulative, you lack empathy, and exhibit behaviors of aggression. You fit the profile perfectly

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 16, 2025, 6:53 PM#452

Amazing3338 Perhaps you think that evidence is simply you telling people what you have seen in your own stats? Unfortunately, that's not what others need as evidence. We need to see what you have seen, by way of screenshots of your PT display, and knowledge of what criteria you have used to produce them. I'm afraid I don't remember seeing such, either. Once we see them, we can copy the method you used so we can see and post our own stats in order to agree with yours or not. (If you're worried that you will reveal your SN or something, black it out.) No doubt you have them to hand, so please post them. Thank you.

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 8:06 AM#453

I love how the argument of the current group of riggies boils down to: I am loosing at poker. I am great at poker. Which means i am getting cheated. Everybody else of course knows that the most likely explanation is that you guys are not as good as you think. But you are too invested in being a 97% professional level poker player or what ever other nonsense you spew. This mindset will hold you back in not just poker but in other areas as well.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 11:01 AM#454

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58956995#post58956995)

Johnmir, watching your youtube video reminds me of people talking about how the earth is flat. They have no evidence, are 100% sure they are right, keep on rambling incoherently and have an unstable look in their eyes. These people are sick and need help. And im afraid you and your friends Larusso & Amazing need that help too.

Slugant, are you okay, saying something which is not true. Excuse me? " They have no evidence, are 100% sure they are right" This time you just lie here in the chat. Regarding the sit-out games with postflop rigging of 0,0000000035% probability. "I find it important that you, guys, should be able to work with all the materials I provide for your overview. Here is a link to a google drive (link below) where you can find:

  1. A text version of the video in ENG/RUS (MS Excel format)
  2. The statistics in MS Excel format, very comfortable to work with, to watch hands, to check anything you would like to
  3. A detailed description of the software algorithm (Ipoker net, Red Star Poker room)
  4. A copy of the main youtube video
  5. Some other materials/documents which are necessary to be presented in this kind of situations https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1..." Regarding the software provoking by dealing combinations on the flop according to previously folded hand of a player "https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPf2urc3J_0GrXz0l0Kzv-1aOnADjtIw/view?usp=sharing 20 minutes video. Where you can make sure the data is correct." I always provide the evidence. If I don't - i say "I can't confirm this with an actual data"
SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 11:55 AM#455

Johnmir, you havent provided evidence. You clearly dont know what that word means. You provide self-made excel sheets and random screenshots where nothing really happens. For both you & amazing.. If you really think you have evidence and are fighting the good fight against rigged poker rooms, SUE THEM! You both are convinced of yourself, gather your evidence and take those bastards to court and make them stop rigging. You already spend so much time on this issue, its time to take it serious and just email Playtech lololol If you do not have intentions to present your evidence in a court of law maybe you do actually realize that your so-called evidence is flimsy at best and you are just ranting trolls. Mad at the poker world because you are not the success you feel you should be.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 1:57 PM#456

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958024#post58958024)

Johnmir, you havent provided evidence. You clearly dont know what that word means. You provide self-made excel sheets and random screenshots where nothing really happens.For both you & amazing.. If you really think you have evidence and are fighting the good fight against rigged poker rooms, SUE THEM! You both are convinced of yourself, gather your evidence and take those basta... See full post

You are right here. Man, I have already sent it to The Gambling control board of Curacao and to The UK Gambling Commission. I have also sent it to the Federal Taxation Service of Russia and to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia. And you know it. But to come to a court I need to leave Russia (I can't do it at the moment). It's a complicated task to perform in a real life. You should understand it. It's NOT easy, objectively. You lie here - "You provide self-made excel sheets and random screenshots where nothing really happens." What is my last hand in the 40 minutes video of recording every hand played in the room included in the analysis? A2o? 55? Tell me the last hand of my statistical data, if you say I didn't provide the evidence. it's not a screen shot, I provided live (!) video with myself opening the rooms client program, and opening EVERY hand played. Guys, he just lie. Don't believe him. https://drive.google.com/file/d/16d2YB55... (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16d2YB55xykMvw1wBPtbrlT8hvqe5w1MB/view?usp=drive_link)

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 2:51 PM#457

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958083#post58958083)

I explain the situation, when and what did I play? ... See full post

Already a mistake in the first sentence here. You have never been a professional level player. Not even close. If you are lying about this, what else are you lying about? How can we trust the excel input you create, those number could be a lie as well?? So you are lying. You Liar. Can we give a penalty to this liar?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 3:18 PM#458

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958156#post58958156)

This must have hit them like a bombshell huhI mean, a professional level whistleblower with all that evidence about what is basically scamming. This must be a huge case.Have they gotten back to you? Can we read that reply?They must take you very seriously, but so far I have not read anything about it. Normally if a gambling/poker company is under investigaton you would hear abo... See full post

Man... I thought you saw that. The response of the UKGC https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58920... (https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58920144#post58920144)

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 3:50 PM#459

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958182#post58958182)

Man... I thought you saw that. The response of the UKGC https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58920... (https://twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58920144#post58920144)

wow and what a response It says nothing about the rigging of the deck, only about the license in the UK. How on earth do you think this mail is helping your case? by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958147#post58958147)

Already a mistake in the first sentence here. You have never been a professional level player. Not even close. If you are lying about this, what else are you lying about? How can we trust the excel input you create, those number could be a lie as well?? So you are lying. You Liar. Can we give a penalty to this liar?

and care to respond to this? Why do you keep lying that your a professional level player? Did you lie agains the UKGC about being a professional level player? Is that why you wont take this to court? Because you have to testify under oath and then lying about being a professional level player isnt so harmless anymore lolol

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 4:40 PM#460

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958095#post58958095)

... Mike, sorry for disturbing you, is it reasonable to implement some penalty to Slugant? Excuse me, it's just a question if there are some rules on the forum for this case. Cause he simply lies and insults players. He went too far already, really.

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958147#post58958147)

... So you are lying. You Liar. Can we give a penalty to this liar? ...

No: not in this thread. Elsewhere: perhaps/probably.

All of us can argue our cases against others' points and posts to our hearts' content, to a reasonably directly contradictory and confrontational degree. This thread takes such common arguments out of threads in other places, and only those interested in the ongoing debate, whether purely for fun or whether looking for someone at some time to provide the first serious evidence of rigging, will read the thread. Rudeness and insults from one to the other is more an indicator of the type of person that is stooping to them. Obviously, as with anywhere, ideally language should be kept fairly neutral with the content giving reasonable arguments against whatever is being stated by one with which the other disagrees.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 5:26 PM#461

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958273#post58958273)

No: not in this thread. Elsewhere: perhaps/probably. All of us can argue our cases against others' points and posts to our hearts' content, to a reasonably directly contradictory and confrontational degree. This thread takes such common arguments out of threads in other places, and only those interested in the ongoing debate, whether purely for fun or whether looking for someon... See full post

Aha, I see, Mike, thank you. I'm "okay" with this kind of behavior. But, still, had to ask you about the situation 😀 by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958224#post58958224)

How on earth do you think this mail is helping your case?

Lol, man, so what? Did I say it helped? I have no idea. Colleagues from The UK are investigating the case. Or do you mean they lie? I didn't even say it helped me somehow. You asked me to show you. It's The United Kingdom. I'm from Russia. Here in Russia they have already blocked several "mirror"-sites of Red Star Poker due to my message. But it's here, in Russia. I can't be active there in GB.

(It's Russian, guys, they say, they block some addresses and ask to send them more site-names if I got this information) by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958224#post58958224)

Why do you keep lying that your a professional level player? Did you lie agains the UKGC about being a professional level player?

When my opinion about my own gaming level became a lie? Do you know the meaning of the verb "to lie"?

JustJokeNewbie3 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 7:32 PM#462

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958314#post58958314)

Lies. In Russia it is forbidden to organize gambling if there is no license. That is why all poker (and not only) sites are blocked. This letter and the Federal Tax Service says literally: “Thank you for informing us. In accordance with the law №... “we have blocked the addresses of the sites.

It has nothing to do with IPoker's dishonesty and nothing to do with your alleged evidence either.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 9:46 PM#463

Exactly that ^ UKGC arent investigating the honesty of iPoker, like you claim But that does leave the question, if you play from Russia why do you contact the UKGC? And where can i read the proof that they banned mirror sites due to your message? Your message has nothing to with the stance of Russia against online gambling. They arent investigating "the case" of rigged poker, they are investigating the legality of online poker. You truly have delusions and would benefit from some councelling and most likely medication. Its just like your "opinion" that you are/were a professional level player. You can keep on claiming that, but it is so obviously untrue. You play micros and struggle there. Are all your opponents there professional level players? Do you know what professional even means? But the fact that you move your narrative away from your original claims says it all. You dont have anything, and you never will.

JustJokeNewbie3 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 9:51 PM#464

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958611#post58958611)

Exactly that ^UKGC arent investigating the honesty of iPoker, like you claimBut that does leave the question, if you play from Russia why do you contact the UKGC?And where can i read the proof that they banned mirror sites due to your message? Your message has nothing to with the stance of Russia against online gambling. They arent investigating "the case" of rigged poker, they... See full post

gambling and lotteries are prohibited in Russia if the company does not have a license. Russia has restricted access to the site and mirrors, but this has nothing to do with IPoker's dishonesty

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 10:47 PM#465

by JustJoke m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958475#post58958475)

Lies. In Russia it is forbidden to organize gambling if there is no license. That is why all poker (and not only) sites are blocked. This letter and the Federal Tax Service says literally: "Thank you for informing us. In accordance with the law ... "we have blocked the addresses of the sites. It has nothing to do with IPoker's dishonesty and nothing to do with your alleged evi... See full post

I type. "Here in Russia they have already blocked several "mirror"-sites of Red Star Poker due to my message. But it's here, in Russia. I can't be active there in GB." "утвержденным приказом ФНС России от 13.03.2023 № ЕД-7-2/162@, в отношении указанных сайтов приняты решения от 14.03.2025 № 2025-03-14-5206-АИ и № 2025-03-14-5219-АИ, являющиеся основанием для их включения в единый реестр." My message was sent to the Federal Taxation Service on the 20th of February 2025. They decided to block several addresses on the 13/03/2025 - 14/03/2025. AFTER my message. I do not say, they did that because the room is rigging games. I said - due to my message. Before accusing me, try to learn English better, may be read more attentively. I mean, yeah, you can accuse and insult people over internet. Why not, you are "responsible" for your words. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958611#post58958611)

Exactly that ^UKGC arent investigating the honesty of iPoker, like you claimBut that does leave the question, if you play from Russia why do you contact the UKGC?And where can i read the proof that they banned mirror sites due to your message? Your message has nothing to with the stance of Russia against online gambling. They arent investigating "the case" of rigged poker, they... See full post

Ignoring you, starting from this moment. In my opinion, you are a spoiled person, I have no interest communicating with you. "You truly have delusions and would benefit from some councelling and most likely medication". No more wasting of my attention to you. Reason - repeated insulting with no reason.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 17, 2025, 11:50 PM#466

by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58957296#post58957296)

Amazing3338Perhaps you think that evidence is simply you telling people what you have seen in your own stats? Unfortunately, that's not what others need as evidence. We need to see what you have seen, by way of screenshots of your PT display, and knowledge of what criteria you have used to produce them. I'm afraid I don't remember seeing such, either. Once we see them, we can c... See full post

I was refereeing to my All in Adjusted Differential screen shots. With respect to AK, AQ and AJ I said I could provide them. Pokertracker expired so I had to download Manager and I added 2 weeks of hands which I previously downloaded when Pokertracker was about to expire. Here is what I'm willing to provide. The unmarked hands sorted so you can see all the AK, AQ and AJ hands have been tagged. I also separated all the freeroll hands because (except for the first few screenshot examples, I segregated them after). There are only 23 relevant hands anyways.

All the hands that nobody saw the flop. I have included one for now.

The first group of AJ hands that missed the flop for now.

As far as providing my database of hands, it ain't going to happen, because it would be too easy to see every one on my hands on Pokercraft. In addition many here have made claims for years, maybe decades, and never provided any evidence, even when challenged to, which ultimately turned out to be BS. So it's not MY credibility that is in question here. But if someone wants to say not good enough, or the amount of hands or 2+ standard deviations isn't enough, well then the screenshots end here. When anyone provides something equivalent then they can talk.

Lil LarussoNewbie4 posts
Posted Apr 18, 2025, 9:11 AM#467

Sorry Slugant but you are a joke haha. 15 years defending sites that have already been caught cheating is brutal. Then you say im a losing player after i just told you im up 20 k.... You are an obvious troll working hard to defend online pokers integrity haha. Then you say i spend too much time on this subject when ive had an account for like a week and you been on the internet shilling for 15 years????? LOL you cant make this up!

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 18, 2025, 10:32 AM#468

Guys, I share an actual information with you. After predicting the following behavior of iPoker's software (the developer of the software is Playtech PLC) - the software provokes a player who folds strong hands on a preflop by dealing a flop according to his starting hand.

The video-evidence - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPf2urc... (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPf2urc3J_0GrXz0l0Kzv-1aOnADjtIw/view?usp=drive_link) I tested the software once again. And you can see, how it works in a real game (Bounty Texas Hold'em poker tournament) : The tournament started from the winning of two all-ins 82% and 76% -

Right after these all-ins I started to fold "Ax" type of hands. And folded 4 times in a row (according to previously described algorithm of the software) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1... (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oEZRof3wiDNFQpCfHAFzK0ZkDVb9LTBK/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=106366561548744833761&rtpof=true&sd=true)

And several hands later I "got shown" the following sequence of flops I refused to participate in -

Thirteen hands. 4 top pairs 5 low and second pairs Three of a kind The chance of such event (flop hitting of my starting hand) are - 0,014% (approximately). The chance to meet this event (the sequence of flops) on the distance of 83 hands played with no participating in the flop - 0,6%. In average, this kind of steak happens once in 15 300 hands played. I played - 83 hands with no participating in the flop. Means, the software keeps generating this streaks every tournament with no exclusions. 5 tournaments in a row we predicted (!) something that happens once in 200 tries.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 18, 2025, 11:37 AM#469

I want to take some of your attention.

In the morning, I sent all the information regarding iPoker group of online-casinos to The UK Gambling Commission and to The Curacao Gaming Control Board. I have also sent a petition to The Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia. At the moment, iPoker net is not considered as a fraudulent organization officially. But here on the forum, unofficially, it is not reasonable to consider the net (online-poker casinos group) as a fair business any more. According to the provided software tests - I. The final report regarding provoking of a player to participate in a flop stage of Texas Hold'em poker game:

The video evidence - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPf2urc... (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPf2urc3J_0GrXz0l0Kzv-1aOnADjtIw/view?usp=drive_link) II. The final report regarding rigging the flop stage of Texas Hold'em poker game with all the cards opened.

The video evidence - https://drive.google.com/file/d/16d2YB55... (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16d2YB55xykMvw1wBPtbrlT8hvqe5w1MB/view?usp=drive_link) And, also, according to the information which could be checked with no basic analytical skills involved -

  1. During the games against sit-out player with all his hands opened my opponent (the first and only test) hit the flop 75 times of 171 flops with nonpaired starting hand while I had a stack of 80% of all the chips in play (non-all-in situations)

The chances for the deviation are - 0,11% (once in thousand tests) 2. During the test - provoking of the software of a conservative preflop player by dealing combinations on the flop according to his starting hand (the first and only test) we got the sequence of flops dealt -

21 flop hit of 41 flops without taking into account

  • 3 two pair flopped
  • full house flopped
  • flush flopped
  • 8 top pair flopped

The chances for the deviation are - 0,96% (once in hundred tests) And, once again, these two tests can be checked without any analytical skills. Means we got at least 0,001% case of the games organized by iPoker net are random. According to my analytical research this probability is 0,00000031% * 0,00041% = 0, 000 000 000 001%. But it takes you to have a high level of data analysis skills. I start to prepare the message for the forum members regarding the fraud of iPoker, Playtech PLC. You can refuse commenting this information, It's your right. But commenting this without providing mistakes in the research - is just ignoring provided information and facts. Any other comments regarding my information I feel free to ignore.

HelllsrealRegular56 posts
Posted Apr 18, 2025, 12:00 PM#470

U are on to something very big here Johnmir. Don't give up the good fight with those excell sheets and other hard evidence like in those videos. Keep up ur contact with the UK gambling commission. I would also contact any other possible gambling commission about it and keep posting here, on Reddit and on other Platforms.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 18, 2025, 12:12 PM#471

John, the voices in your head are getting stronger... stop them before they take total control!!! by Lil Larusso m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58959165#post58959165)

Then you say im a losing player after i just told you im up 20 k....

wowow 20k up in poker, im close to 7 numbers but that because poker is rigged i guess🙂 You claim to be here only a week (while its obviously a new account because you are a hero) but in that week time you seem to have rea the last 15 year history of 2+2. Must have been a fun week hahaha. Also you havent read it well, because im often vocal against many sites but of their actions and policy and not because of rigging. But im not a disgruntled loser like you 😉

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 8:18 AM#472

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958767#post58958767)

I was refereeing to my All in Adjusted Differential screen shots. With respect to AK, AQ and AJ I said I could provide them. Pokertracker expired so I had to download Manager and I added 2 weeks of hands which I previously downloaded when Pokertracker was about to expire. Here is what I'm willing to provide.The unmarked hands sorted so you can see all the AK, AQ and AJ hands ha... See full post

To be fair, I didn't manage to compare, Amazing. You said you hit 21% of top-pairs on AJ in stead of 28%? Something like that? But I didn't manage to check this with a help of screens... 248 AJo got dealt. But where is the number - how many did you hit top pair on the flop?

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 12:21 PM#473

I did some statistical analysis myself, on one specific player on 2 different sites to see how it differs. The player in question is called Johnmir. These are the stats of a self proclaimed player of professional level. iPoker

And stars

This the the guy that knows everything about poker and can predict every outcome yes loses -23bb/100 over 9k hands. On a limit of 10NL (hahahaha, imagine losing big at 10nl and calling yourself a professional level player) And by the way, 9k hands is more of a sample that any riggie-fan has ever provided here. Do you understand what that means John, you are losing -23bb/100 over 9k hands. You are a huge fish. You have no clue about poker and dont know what you are doing. You have the same affliction as Paisting who loses constantly at microstakes but is certain of his own ability. Yet everyone else is certain of his mental illness. Based on this huge sample (because normally you show about 6 hands) how do you think you qualify to say anything about poker, let alone call yourself an expert?? Yeah you run under ev but ev winrate is still -9... at micros!!! Is that why you are so mad at online poker? Because you cant even beat the micros? Do one thing right in poker for the first time in your life and take yourself out the game.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 3:00 PM#474

Good job, you just proved iPoker is a fair online-casino group. You are an Ace. Are you able to read - "But commenting this without providing mistakes in the research - is just ignoring provided information and facts." And don't forget to check my results BEFORE I started to test the software on micros.

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 3:06 PM#475

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960167#post58960167)

To be fair, I didn't manage to compare, Amazing. You said you hit 21% of top-pairs on AJ in stead of 28%? Something like that? But I didn't manage to check this with a help of screens... 248 AJo got dealt. But where is the number - how many did you hit top pair on the flop?

No I didn't. I said Couple of additional stats to add that are suspicious. I drew KK 175 times and saw the flop 143 times. 42 times, one or more aces hit the flop. That's 29.37% when the probability that an ace will hit the flop before any cards are dealt is 21.73%. Again (similar to AK, AQ and AJ missing the flop) 2.21 standard deviations from the mean. You are mixing up two different statements, AK, AQ, AJ hitting the flop and ace hitting the flop when I have pocket KK . In both cases I am saying I am over 2 standard deviations from the mean. Fixed a few errors. Overcounted 3 undercounted 1

Here are the pocket kings. 29.37%

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 3:25 PM#476

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58959250#post58959250)

John, the voices in your head are getting stronger... stop them before they take total control!!!

The only thing that is getting stronger is the fact that normal people, here can see what is inside of you. Writting such nasty and mean things in a poker community should get you banned. You are clearly mobbing and disrespecting, not staying on the subject, but using your right to write here to maliciously bully You are a true life looser by definition. Please delete your account.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 3:28 PM#477

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960324#post58960324)

And don't forget to check my results BEFORE I started to test the software on micros.

First of all, You said you were ignoring me yesterday. That went well for a day 😉 But since you are unable to ignore the voices in your head as well, this doesnt surprise me. And results-wise, these were the cash game hands that were mined online on your name in the last 5 years so its an absolute fair sample without meddling. 9k hands, thats all. Not many hands for a poker expert. And certainly not a high limit for a poker expert (10nl). And absolutely certainly not the result of a poker expert (losing ev10bb at micros) 😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 6:30 PM#478

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960373#post58960373)

First of all, You said you were ignoring me yesterday. That went well for a day 😉 But since you are unable to ignore the voices in your head as well, this doesnt surprise me.And results-wise, these were the cash game hands that were mined online on your name in the last 5 years so its an absolute fair sample without meddling. 9k hands, thats all. Not many hands for a poker exp... See full post

You are really pathetic. It is about what he found out, not about 9K hands on nl10. You don't like answering me don't you. I smell fear and weakness.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 6:32 PM#479

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960248#post58960248)

I did some statistical analysis myself, on one specific player on 2 different sites to see how it differs.The player in question is called Johnmir.These are the stats of a self proclaimed player of professional level.iPokerAnd starsThis the the guy that knows everything about poker and can predict every outcome yes loses -23bb/100 over 9k hands. On a limit of 10NL (hahahaha, im... See full post

I, for one, am extremely jealous of this "expert level" poker player's graph! by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960561#post58960561)

You are really pathetic. It is about what he found out, not about 9K hands on nl10. You don't like answering me don't you. I smell fear and weakness.

You're aware Johnmir claims he's an expert level poker player, right?

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 6:33 PM#480

by Amazing3338 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960334#post58960334)

No I didn't. I saidCouple of additional stats to add that are suspicious. I drew KK 175 times and saw the flop 143 times. 42 times, one or more aces hit the flop. That's 29.37% when the probability that an ace will hit the flop before any cards are dealt is 21.73%. Again (similar to AK, AQ and AJ missing the flop) 2.21 standard deviations from the mean.You are mixing up two dif... See full post

Aha, I see now, what your screens mean! Well, yes, it can be rational to keep monitoring this. Taking into account, that players call your KK having an ace card really often... So, the real chances to see an Ace on the flop are actually lower then 21,73%...

2% for this deviation. But I would say, you need to get more data here to insist on rigging. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960368#post58960368)

The only thing that is getting stronger is the fact that normal people, here can see what is inside of you. Writting such nasty and mean things in a poker community should get you banned.You are clearly mobbing and disrespecting, not staying on the subject, but using your right to write here to maliciously bullyYou are a true life looser by definition. Please delete your accoun... See full post

)) Lol, he won't do this. He is here to provoke 😃 In fact, yes, It's not normal, in my opinion. Unacceptable attitude. But we got no rules for this... )) by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960561#post58960561)

You are really pathetic. It is about what he found out, not about 9K hands on nl10. You don't like answering me don't you. I smell fear and weakness.

Thank you, MRP. Yeah, he uses some "suspicious" information just to spoil my "image" and to change the attention of players from what is really important to what is not. It's literally is not ANY important who I am. But it's important - what is going on in online-poker direction. by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960562#post58960562)

I, for one, am extremely jealous of this "expert level" poker player's graph! You're aware Johnmir claims he's an expert level poker player, right?

Lol, this graphs look funny, btw, awesome job of me It's a funny story how I manage to do this. Btw, is it true - Teflon, seriously - Some high-limit cash players tried to play 0,1$ NLH cash and lost there? Did you hear about that? Do you know what players say - "The field is different there, so, high-limit pro cash-players lost there. Just a different game" LMAO 😃

Amazing3338Regular47 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 7:22 PM#481

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960563#post58960563)

Taking into account, that players call your KK having an ace card really often... So, the real chances to see an Ace on the flop are actually lower then 21,73%...

Yep. And in small stakes they are (almost) never folding.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 19, 2025, 8:48 PM#482

John, so what you are saying is you are a losing player at 10nl but you are a very skilled and winning player at higher limits??? Why is there zero record of that And you really think players that can beat HS are playing micros but cant beat it there.. another delusional statement from you. Your graphs dont look "funny". They look like the graph of a losing micro player. Which you are. The furthest thing you can be from an expert level poker player, which you claim you are. You present yourself as someone with (special) knowledge about online poker but all the facts and results of you as a player show the exact opposite. Which devalues everything you state as facts about online poker, especially ipoker. Where you've played 4k cash games hands total (thats a normal day for a pro) lifetime and were losing. At 10nl... where Hellen Keller would be a winning player. At least you found a friend in MRP, and by friend i mean another losing micro player who holds a grudge at online poker for failing in it. You are just a bunch of Paisting copycats.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 20, 2025, 7:06 PM#483

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960657#post58960657)

John, so what you are saying is you are a losing player at 10nl but you are a very skilled and winning player at higher limits??? Why is there zero record of thatAnd you really think players that can beat HS are playing micros but cant beat it there.. another delusional statement from you.Your graphs dont look "funny". They look like the graph of a losing micro player. Which yo... See full post

Dude, just delete your account. No one needs a toxic looser.

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 8:21 AM#484

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950390#post58950390)

True that, I had some good runs, but not as good as they should have been. If Viktor managed to turn 2000 $ into 1.7M on Party, then I can at least do 10% of that and 75 or 85x my roll. He 850 xed it!

yeah sure. Since Suain Bolt can run the 100m dash in less than 10 second i should at least be able to do it in 12. But I cant so the 100m dash is rigged. Its the only explanation. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58958147#post58958147)

Already a mistake in the first sentence here. You have never been a professional level player. Not even close. If you are lying about this, what else are you lying about? How can we trust the excel input you create, those number could be a lie as well??So you are lying. You Liar. Can we give a penalty to this liar?This must have hit them like a bombshell huhI mean, a profession... See full post

The fact that curacao ignores him means nothing to be fair. The curacao gaming comission doesnt care at all. They are known to give licenses to rogue casinos although they are cleaning house lately. That being said if a curacao licensed operators would want to cheat you out of your winnings they would simply not pay out instead of going through all the trouble rigging anything. by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58960561#post58960561)

You are really pathetic. It is about what he found out, not about 9K hands on nl10. You don't like answering me don't you. I smell fear and weakness.

It speaks volumes about his credibility. John i obviously wont waste my time on your "research" for more then a few second but from a quick glance it looks like you have still not added your raw data. If anybody would be willing to look at what you published you are more likely to find them in the probability forum but they would ask for access to the raw data i am sure. That being said the most likely finding wil be one that you wont accept anyway. I am sure you misapply a lot of concept just like you statistics suggest that you ight be aware of a lot of poker concepts but misapply them in the wild. Didn't you post a random sample of your sng history you had a high win rate as. assigend that as your real win rate and then looked at another random cherry picked sample with bad results. You have to see the issue with this right? Anyway guys you have fun now.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 11:53 AM#485

MRP took a break from complaining in the official Coin Poker Thread, he thinks they are rigging against him as well. The guy cant catch a break🙂 Ironically, he is the toxic loser. The word he uses for everyone who dont believe his and John's biased rantings. But he, Johnmir etc are the undisputed toxic losers becuase they cant beat micros and are very very angry about that (which i get, its quite embarrassing) But you just should read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) It applies perfectly to you lot. You all have a cognitive bias in which people with limited competence in a particular domain overestimate their abilities. And before you dispute your own limited competence, realize that every single raw data suggests (i.e. proves) you have no knowledge about online poker whatsoever.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 1:39 PM#486

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58950390#post58950390)

If Viktor managed to turn 2000 $ into 1.7M on Party, then I can at least do 10% of that and 75 or 85x my roll. He 850 xed it!

MRP, just noticed this... You kidding )) On Party? ))) It is the first room I started my investigations at 🍰 Still remember when a journalist asked some Party's manager "Is it rational for Partypoker to run satellite tournaments with such a big overlay?" (something like that he asked) The manager answered - "Well, this money will come back to the room anyway". Rofl. I mean, they don't even hide "players money = the room's money" attitude. Party - is a special case. Regarding Coin poker. About a month ago, I joined a stream of some successful offline/online pro, 46 years old man (I mean, he is not a kid, a poker pro with a huge experience who got the scam model I described in my video from the first try). He played MTT on Coin. 5 minutes of watching. I tell him (I know this guy, personally) - "Look, after you won a huge pot 3 hands ago this JTs is a provocation of the software. I haven't ever played on Coin, but if the software algorithm is just the same as on Pokerstars and on iPokerYou - will lose chips now on a postflop." He got a 3bet on a preflop, and lose a pot later. But I had to leave the stream. In 3 minutes he types me - "Noo, what did I push my KQo for!" Me - "Did the opponent got AA hand?". "Yeah, exactly!". I told you exactly, the story how it was. I know the software algorithms of 3 rooms - Partypoker, Pokerstars and iPoker. And my experience of the software testing and analysis is just huge. I have never played on Coin, but looks like they got the same algorithm of the game manipulating as these three rooms get. Because it took me 5 minutes to predict hands and the game situation development.

HelllsrealRegular56 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 2:09 PM#487

Johnmir, please take the advice of others and seek help. U won't achieve anything and u have no real idea about the game and material u are talking about. It's very obvious. Those are not "investigations". To investigate something u have to have at least a bit of a clue about what u are investigating. But will continue to read this mental clown show, it's highly entertaining.

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 2:44 PM#488

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58962150#post58962150)

... I know the software algorithms of 3 rooms - Partypoker, Pokerstars and iPoker. ... I have never played on Coin, but looks like they got the same algorithm of the game manipulating as these three rooms get. Because it took me 5 minutes to predict hands and the game situation development.

This is massive information for you to have! Your win-rate could be huge - but maybe keep on keeping it low so they don't put two or three of their live watchers on full time alert when you play? You really should play on Twitch so we can laugh along with you as you give your predictions and we see how much you can exploit the games in real time.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 3:23 PM#489

A livestream with postflop predictions would be fun actually. And it would be his best "evidence", it doesnt go any further than stories. Incoherent stories from a rambling madman. And John could also show us how to grind that amazing 10bb lossrate at 10nl 😃

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 5:17 PM#490

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58962205#post58962205)

A livestream with postflop predictions would be fun actually. And it would be his best "evidence", it doesnt go any further than stories. Incoherent stories from a rambling madman. And John could also show us how to grind that amazing 10bb lossrate at 10nl 😃

Lol... You kidding, I have already recorded several games for Russian poker forum, where I didn't commit any mistake... 6 crazy pushes - 1 call on a weaker hand on a buble. In total - 12 pushes in a row with no mistake. Later I shown MTT where I made 23 pushes and only 3 hands met a stronger hand on the table. I tried to translate one video of me today. But I don't think you will get the logic of the video since my English is not good enough. Too hard... Really. I rewatched it, but i don't think it's reasonable to publish it. Lol, while you, guys, talking bullshit another huge forum know that I push with almost no mistakes. People say "well, you just got lucky" lol. At the same time, I almost never miss pushing. by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58962183#post58962183)

This is massive information for you to have! Your win-rate could be huge - but maybe keep on keeping it low so they don't put two or three of their live watchers on full time alert when you play? You really should play on Twitch so we can laugh along with you as you give your predictions and we see how much you can exploit the games in real time.

Mike, I have no idea how to organize this. I would do this 100%. But we all good different time, you know... By the way, may be I can make it on youtube also? (Have never used twitch) To others: Guys, your information is slightly "outdated". Because we have already discussed a lot of stuff regarding iPoker on a Russian forum. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58962205#post58962205)

And John could also show us how to grind that amazing 10bb lossrate at 10nl 😃

Those cashe games - is a special case. I only played "push"/"fold" there. It's pretty hard in a cash game. Without any postflop playing. It was a test of the software. That's why the distance is that short. I just needed to check, is it really possible to "use push-fold in time" strategy in cash. It appeared to be impossible. Guys, you act like kids. Really. This behavior will only work for some stupid guys, who read "haha, you are an idiot" and keep thinking, that some stupid insults is a significant point of view. But the problem is that, i'm not aiming to communicate to stupid guys. I try to give some important info for those who got brain. Can open video, can watch reports, can understand it, and make their own conclusions. Stupid kids will lose their money anywhere besides poker games. Others - should have a choice.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 8:26 PM#491

Okay, guys, I will translate you one of my MTTs from Russian into English. It's published on GipsyTeam. (I almost never play nowadays, and this is not some "super successful" tournament). Just ONE OF. This is just a translation. You can be a bit "out of the contest", sorry. "We are coming to the main topic. So, we have checked, how the field on 0,5$ bounty MTT plays in general. And it will be useful for us now. To understand at least approximately, having which hands players are ready to call our pushes, and having which ones - are not. We have also watched my bluffs - it was more like an "off-topic", though. Just to stop "fairy tails" of online regular players that bluffing is not profitable in poker and you just need to wait for a push-fold stage and push your stack - since it's less risky 😃 - guys, it's pure fun, really, cause it's not just contradicts mathematics, it contradicts that spoken "poker mathematics" - specifically, the tournament strategy. Once again, you understand, yes, that just playing according to your hand it's simply impossible to keep your stack playable on MTT. Without exaggeration. Means, without a bluff, at least acceptable level bluff, it's senseless to play MTT, because the game turns into a roulette, when to reach the final table you need to make 50 pushes/calls and never lose any of it (i exaggerate here, but something like that will go on without a postflop). But I have already managed to join top-20 of these bounty MTTs 300 players twice of 7 tries playing clean push-fold on the second part of the tournament. How the...? We will watch it now "how"... I'm not showing literally all the hands since there are 173 of them, but still enough hands to go along "the tournament flow". (guys, I don't know how it will look, I just opened the replayer and will just comment the screens) This is the second hand of the tournament. I - fold, because the previous bounty tournament I ended with a profitable all-in TT vs AKo (according to the software algorithm - it's a basic fold)

(yes yes, these kind of folds didn't anyhow spoil my way to top-20. And, considering my bluffs, you can already guess - why. But bluffs are not the only reason) Already after 10 hands played I catch some sweetness ♥ (I win this all-in)

It's trivial but, of course, it's a fold (right the following hand after a positive 88 all-in) -

5 hands later I get AJo in the first position. But, after that 88 all-in, chances for this hand to be the best on the table, let's say, "are not that big" - l😉. And, for sure, I won't play a postflop having such a hand. Of course I won't play AJ-AK on a postflop 🤐 - yeah, these are words of a guy, who took 7 of 9 flops having nothing on a board (don't you find this strange that I avoid playing AJo on a postflop?)

(I didn't manage to watch the opponents hands) By the way, right after a fold of AQo and AJo - the software immediately shown me, that I WOULD hit a top-pair on the flop 3 times in a row in case I wouldn't have folded my hands - yes, it's a pure fun. And we will discuss this, but later. [comment for 2+2 guys - It is already sent to gambling supervision authorities on friday 😀] Here, I come to the flop and Teddy checks his flopped set on a dangerous desk. As a result - I got a backdoor straight completed on the river. I got few chips (40 thousand) more - "it's online-poker, baby". It's unacceptable to slow play hands here, postflop is not played according to true chances, it's not offline. Though, even in offline it's irrational to check on a flush draw board (taking into account several nuances)

And, in a one hand -

(easy fold, lol, though, in case the table is not too weak I shouldn't have played this hand) The second game cone IN A ROW -

The third hand in a row (only one garbage-hand skipped) -

It's simply irrational push. But I show guys all the hands I folded. And I have also shown them A9o and ATo folds. I KNOW - that the software will almost NEVER put the third "killed" Ax in a row. And I push it, showing my hand after, just to let players understand once again - the game is Predictable, it's just a sequence of strong "killed"/"clean" hands with respect to +EV of previous several hands played. (By the way, playing like that I will win crazy number of postflop bluffs later, showing every of my hands!) By the way, since I folded strong hands (Ax-s) again, the software shows me top-pair flopped, a pair flopped and two pair flopped in a row once again And I decided to pay more attention to this circus. And to calculate all this carefully - will share it with you 😀 After about 50 hands I finally raise on a preflop for the FIRST time -

(obviously having not the best hand of those I got dealt before... Cause only having **** I am able to play after that 88 vs T3o take off, because my EV$ ICM - is critically high on this stage of the tournament))) Both folded, pay attention to this. So, let's count, how many times I raised or pushed and how many times players called me having at least something. The score is 1 - 0. After several hands one of big bluffs comes -

And right the next hand I go all-in and win the following pot (guys, it's a complicated decision, prehistory of hands is that I could afford myself to push this. If you remember this - I folded AQo, AJo, A9o, ATo - ****ing enough! Unlikely the software will try to kill me even right after the successful bluff. This is a deep understanding of all the software algorithm nuances, an ability to assess it) -

Here, after 10 game cones played, I rather take into account gameplay of my opponents, that is why I push and call the all-in of Matrix (to get a bounty award) They don't call me again. The score is 2-0

A standard stuff - I just won few all-ins and only two stacks exceeding me. One of them folded. The next one - right behind me. And exactly this guy got a better hand. But i'm aware

And here, I can confidently raise - who cares about the position, if the software just alternates hands and we know it. Who cares about chances and ranges 😃

Everyone folded. Successful steals score is 3-0

4-0 (I SHOW every of my hands - means, they fold their hands even being aware of me playing sh*t. So what the f.. did they get? 92 and 73? And how the **** do I know this?)) Aces come, no minraise, no postflop, it's unacceptable -

I should be happy to get the blinds, lol. I can only imagine, what would have happened on the postflop. 5-0 - steals. A small bluff 😀

And it's time to fond a hand, because I just won about five pots playing weak hands in the right moment. And a huge EV has already been collected. I'm going a sweet way according to ICM. Means, the first strong hand should be folded (well, I should fold this anyway) -

But here, I must immediately take into account that I just folded A9o, so -

The steal score is 6-0. 6 pushes - no calls. Just perfect Risk-free stack increase on MTT ♥ Guys, a difficult decision comes, a pretty thin one. First of all - I can see that there is no bigger stack on the table. The second, I can see, according to the tournament development, that after I folded in the start of the tourney my AQo and AJo - these 66 are most-likely the best hand on the table and I can push it. But it's important to understand that the software algorithm knowledge is not literally something 100% sure. It's still a group of factors to assess, objectively.

I win this all-in. The score is 6-1 (they finally called me!) And I immediately get the punishment from the software, but I still go for this all-in, since it's profitable on a bounty tournament

And right after the punishment as usual 😃 I can go for -

Stealing score is 7-1 - and I don't steal according to my hand, obviously. I show this to players and they are keeping folding. And there are no other reasons then I simply know, when is acceptable to steal. Means, they got really weak hands "in time". After this one I fold several hands - K5s, K4o, QJs, and meet a bit better hand then mine A8o (push as an answer to the limp) -

(the steal score is 7-2, they called me) And after such a wave of negative hands a positive wave of hands starts 🍰

(I don't count it as an unsuccessful steal, because he would call me anyway) And in 3 game cones, once again -

Steal score is 8-2 After two pushes in a row it's a joke to play the third strong hand in a row once again, in online-poker

But right the following one - why not 😉

I don't count it as a steal, because I didn't push, I called, unfair 🙄 The following hand. You see? Usually, you should just play "every other time". But it's not always like that. There are other nuances and I try to announce it. All of them are described in the detailed software algorithm doc.

And here I commit a small mistake (not too big, since it's a bounty MTT, and the decision is not the worst, but still I didn't "read" the situation well enough. Underestimate that I have already won too many chips for free in the last 15-20 game cones. And the software increased an "aggression level" towards me) -

8-3 steal score One more bluff -

I fold some hands and get a huge hand. I have no reasons to fold it (I have already lost 88 vs TT two tournaments before having a huge stack. So pocket top pairs should be confidently played) -

Look attentively at this all-in - it's a significantly profitable decision for me with 57% chances and a bunch of chips on the table. But, the most important - I lost this all-in. And if you understood dozens if not hundreds of my previous posts about EV$ ICM calculation - this is EXACTLY THAT SITUATION, when the software will try to kill me in the craziest possible manner. Because, since I lost this all-in I made a very profitable "cut" according to ICM - guys, it's a complicated stuff, indeed, I understand. The idea is that, been lost 57% all-in, I told the software - "Okay, in 57% cases my tournament $ share is a couple of thousand dollars - don't forget to pay me it on a distance later". And the software didn't like this suggestion at all. So, I have to fold the next four (4) Ace Highs! (one of them - I shouldn't have folded, just didn't take the risk) -

And only the 5th Ace high I decide to push (3bet)

(Steal score 9-4) And I immediately fold this one. Because the situation is critical. It's very hard to play profitable gameplay after that 57% all-in, since I can only push every 5-7th strong hand now -

Get my chips back by bluff -

And right the next hand -

(you can't bluff online without taking into account the following software "tricks". The money will be immediately stolen) Now - as you wish )) AJs don't push, A7s - don't push. But A5o in early position - push! This is not a game according to true chances. True chances - are waiting for you in offline poker.

10-4 steals. Right the next hand - fold

And push again. The software doesn't expect me to push having such a weak hand after the fold on 55, means, players don't have anything strong -

11-4 55 was skipped? ATo - push 😉 Again, we can push every other push-fold hand -

12-4 steals ATo was pushed? A9o - to be skipped.

And here I manage to take an intuitive decision -

I pushed twice in a row - 75o and ATo. Too many chips were won for free. So, the software want let me "leave" after folding just one Ace High. means, I should fold the second Ace High too. The software will most-likely raise the "aggression" towards me and will generate a more rigid wave of "killing hands". And there is a high probability a push will work here, since I folded A9o twice in a row

Steal score is 13-4 (😮) How the f*** do I "guess" from one tournament to another, push my sh*t and it's all-right? )) And right the next hand I get a bit more chips -

14-4 Guys, why I raise here. I do understand how long negative/positive waves the software generates to manipulate the game. And rarely miss my assessments. To understand this stuff you need to try monitoring the game. These raises on a garbage - is a bit thinner game, if you do it "in time". I think, in my case, obviously - I do it right "in time". One more bluff 🙄

One more push -

Steal score - 15-4. Guys, let's make a small pause here. I show guys on the table ALL MY HANDS after each game cone. And I shown guys on this table -

  • bluff on 96o - without draw, clean bluff
  • push on 75о
  • push on АТо
  • push on К9о
  • raise on 82s
  • bluff on Т6о - without draw, clean bluff What do you think? Have I ACCIDENTLY guessed having 86o that they were going to fold their 8BB stacks both, once again? ))) Lol, they just haven't got a sh*t, and i know this, the game goes in a wave-like scheme, everything is readable. There is no any random stuff here. But it should be... I thought we played poker game here )) Do we? 😃 Let's continue. The last two A9o have been folded, this one - push ))

16-4 steals Push -

17-4 We keep pushing, 77 is a too strong hand to fold it (do you remember that Antoha138 guy? He just openly played KK and AA hands. Should we expect him to get some pocket top pair once again right after AA hand? The software will very rarely go for an "open" rigging the game in such a rush manner. The game would look to unnatural then)

18-4 And right after this one - fold. I just stole a too big pot. If you remember my video about SnG 9 max? KJo comes right after the push - is an online-poker classics.

Since I just made 4 pushes in a row, I manage to realize and fold the following hand here. I understand that my stack just made a huge jump -

And in 2 game cone I go for this move 🤐 -

Well, I commit a mistake because I decided to take into account a "real" poker factors. According to the software algorithm - I should have folded the hand, because I have already pushed crazy number of times having pocket low pairs. And the software uses it by dealing me 33. But few hands ago, I saw a hand, were Frisbaldik also raises like that and folds to a 3bet. I miscalculated cause of this. And, of course, my concentration in game is not infinite, guys. 3 hours of the game monitoring and, simultaneously, monitoring of my hand history and opponents decisions. Constant bluffs and playing garbage. Just didn't manage to keep attention in game. Literally.

In the conclusion. My raises -

Look at the hands I had to raise 😵 In easy words - how many times could I afford to play a good hand? And how many times did I have to push my sh*t? All the ****ing game was played with a garbage in the best possible manner. And I have to play every tournament like that. But I would handle this, it's not a problem! The main stuff - what for should I try hard? I tried hard to show you the game. But after Pokerstars, where, after this gameplay, I managed to lose 20 of 21 all-ins right before the final table - is it really reasonable to keep participating in MTT without turning 4+ tables on simultaneously? But I don't wanna play not against opponents, but according to some "average" numbers. Everyone got his own playing level and got his own interest in poker game. Well, yes, even me - I didn't manage to get the finals. The luck-factor difference is such an enormous that even such a weak players managed to take me off. I didn't manage to finish without mistakes. My pushes

They called me on a better hand 3 times of 23 pushes??? While I have been playing out of chances nor position? 😮 13% mistakes... According to my positions just meeting of 88+ ; АJo+ - is already 20%. You have already got 5 such tournaments in the topic described. Before this one - I made 12 pushes in a row (!!) the way so that no one even called me on a better hand. Not when I pushed A5s from UTG nor 93o, nowhere. Once again, it's not a statistical proof. Hands of players are hidden, and it's always possible to say that they just decided to fold any hand except AA. (Or did they decided to fold AA also? 😮)) Guys, I know the "answer", but I want YOU to know it. I'm moving to assessing of a flop hitting frequency of folded hands. It's all very interesting there."

Mike HavenShark107 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 8:41 PM#492

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58962293#post58962293)

... By the way, may be I can make it on youtube also? (Have never used twitch) ...

Sure, but I think it would prove your point much better on Twitch. (Have you had a browse in our Twitch forum, at https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/244/y... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/244/youtube-podcasts-amp-twitch-streams/?)) Here's a five-minutes YT that will teach you everything:

Most people will agree that when you have a mind like yours, it's simple.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 8:43 PM#493

Wow, you've officially surpassed Paisting as most delusional and insane person on this forum You still havent shown the video though. Unedited raw data is something you dont understand. Also, the mining sites show stats and you weren't playing a push-fold strategy at 10nl (imagine thinking that is the way to win btw) Especially since you can predict board outcomes flawlessly, push-fold doesnt seem quite optimal doesnt it?🙂 You played your nitty 23/16 style and lost at 10nl, not because of testing the software, but because you lack the knowledge of poker to even beat the micros

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 9:01 PM#494

Stop wasting your time, Slugant, he doesn't communicate with stupid people!

Oh, how I wish to possess such high IQ levels as self-proclaimed experts with threads to nowhere (https://twoplustwo.com/Discussion-of-Poker-Sites/13k3x/How-to-play-online-poker-according-to-a-software-algorithm---iPoker-Red-Star-Poker-room) and scholarly analysis of (checks notes) 0.50 SNGs Certainly ahead of his time, just like this guy: https://www.instagram.com/faaji_vibes/re... (https://www.instagram.com/faaji_vibes/reel/DHYNhHnNnkz/)

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 21, 2025, 9:35 PM#495

nah Im still waiting for some actual evidence He wants to show irregularities in poker yet the only thing that doesnt make sense in his data is why a professional level player cannot beat 10nl.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 22, 2025, 8:20 PM#496

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58962491#post58962491)

Stop wasting your time, Slugant, he doesn't communicate with stupid people!Oh, how I wish to possess such high IQ levels as self-proclaimed experts with threads to nowhere (https://twoplustwo.com/Discussion-of-Poker-Sites/13k3x/How-to-play-online-poker-according-to-a-software-algorithm---iPoker-Red-Star-Poker-room) and scholarly analysis of (checks notes) 0.50 SNGsCertainly ahead of his time, just like this guy:https://www.instagram.com/faaji_vibes/re... (https://www.instagram.com/faaji_vibes/reel/DHYNhHnNnkz/)... See full post

I just wanted to die right after I finished 2 hours of translating that tournament from Russian into English. I'm not a native speaker, and it's a huge problem here. My conversation on the biggest Russian forum started from exactly the same stuff "You are a newcomer in poker", "You suck in analysis". But here in English i don't feel able to keep a good level of "transparency" of my ideas. I'm not sure it's actually possible. At the same time, yes. If some people go for unnecessary insults, i'm not sure i should keep communicating. And also, look at what donjonnie says - "John i obviously wont waste my time on your "research" for more then a few second" So what, Teflon? I mean, should I keep talking to this guy? This is kind of obvious disrespect and he does his best show me this. Well... Do I think I do not deserve to talk to this kind of people? Probably. Am I big-headed? I think i'm just normal, if I don't wanna continue talking to him. Open disrespect. Lol, I'm socially active adult man. Did you hear I insulted anyone here in the chat at least once? Can I? I don't even need to "insult" to tell something this guy will remember forever, especially in Russian. With no any curse word been used. I have no idea why guys decided they can keep talking like that? Cause they are far enough not to regret about that, lol? Is it a responsibility absence using? by Mike Haven m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58962469#post58962469)

Sure, but I think it would prove your point much better on Twitch. (Have you had a browse in our Twitch forum, at https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/244/y... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/244/youtube-podcasts-amp-twitch-streams/?))Here's a five-minutes YT that will teach you everything:Most people will agree that when you have a mind like yours, it's simple.--... See full post

Cool, Mike, thank you, I will study this. I just have got a crazy amount of things to "prepare" regarding the topic (analysis, letters, forums). That is why i'm so "slow".

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 22, 2025, 9:35 PM#497

I can think of many other reasons why you are so slow. Also, all your posts dont suffer from any language barrier. They suffer from you having zero poker abilities or understandig of raw data.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 23, 2025, 2:18 AM#498

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963422#post58963422)

I just wanted to die right after I finished 2 hours of translating that tournament from Russian into English. I'm not a native speaker, and it's a huge problem here. My conversation on the biggest Russian forum started from exactly the same stuff "You are a newcomer in poker", "You suck in analysis". But here in English i don't feel able to keep a good level of "transparency" o... See full post

You were given the answer like 3 months ago but you insist on continuing to embarrass yourself instead of taking the L and moving on: by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58870277#post58870277)

Well it's simple. They have no clue what they're talking about This thread is basically an echo chamber for the delusional and ignorant at this point

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 23, 2025, 2:36 AM#499

I can end this whole thread in this one post. Number one it may be random, it may not be random, but nobody will ever prove it one way or another. It's an impossibility. Number two if someone did prove it it wouldn't matter people are still going to play no sight is ever going to get shut down because of it they probably won't even get fined because of it. Number three if possibly could be not random. We will never know. The reason they give you is that the online games are tougher because the players better. Which is complete BS. The same losing player that's playing one two in a casino is the same losing player that's playing 50 no limit and 100 no limit online. It's the same suck. They're not better online as a whole. The only reason it's harder to win online is because the average pots are way smaller so you have to win more pots in order to effectively win the same amount of money you would live. I mean if you take 200 no limit the average part live is probably somewhere between 65 and $80 online at that same level the average pot is probably $30. That is the only difference online players are not better. I play pot limit Omaha and they are as sucky as any of the live players you have ever seen they just hit miraculous amounts of hands. So the point is you'll never be able to prove it, even if you did prove it it's not going to matter because no site is going to get punished for it. No player is going to quit playing even if it was found out that it wasn't random. And there's probably no way they're rigging any site to make any one particular player lose. The main reason you go through these longer down swings is the wind rates are smaller online. And like I said it's not because the play is a better it's because the pots are way smaller

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 23, 2025, 10:47 AM#500

If one post could end this thread it would have already been done. But yours certainly doesnt even come close. First of all there is the issue of proven guilt. I can make claims here that you are a cheater and say "well i cant prove he is cheater but he cant prove he isnt so therefore the truth lies in the middle". This is not how it works. There is an innocence til proven guilty (at least in court, on a poker forum it might innocence til likely guilty). But even then the delivered evidence should be of quality and preferably from someone with knowdledge (like the guy who did the data analysis on bot farms on acr, very credible stuff). Both these things dont apply to Johnmir in the furthest. Second you claim players now are not better than they were in the past. As someone who plays poker daily for almost 20 years I can say with full confidence that of course players are now way way better than in the past. This might not hold true for the random fish popping in but the regs are definitely way better. And of course they are, because study material is wider available and of more quality. I have always been a decent winning regular at midstakes but if I could play the games of 10 years ago with the skill-level I have now I would have been a millionaire. And this is certainly not meant as a brag, its acknowledging that the average skill level of the (winning) reg is increasing substantially. Winning HS regs in the old days had many many leaks that in todays environment wouldbe exploited massively.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 23, 2025, 6:24 PM#501

by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963676#post58963676)

You were given the answer like 3 months ago but you insist on continuing to embarrass yourself instead of taking the L and moving on:

Teflon, to embarrass yourself? Don't you think guys, who insult others with no reason embarrass themself? Btw, what is "instead of taking the L"? Don't know the phrase, sorry. At the moment, i do know the game is badly rigged. Yeah, it's pretty hard to bring this idea to the society of players half of which are saying "i'm pro" but are interested in keeping the game as it goes. The other half hasn't got enough analytical skills to understand what I am talking about.

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 23, 2025, 8:40 PM#502

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963897#post58963897)

If one post could end this thread it would have already been done. But yours certainly doesnt even come close.First of all there is the issue of proven guilt. I can make claims here that you are a cheater and say "well i cant prove he is cheater but he cant prove he isnt so therefore the truth lies in the middle". This is not how it works. There is an innocence til proven guilt... See full post

I didn't claim players are not better than they were in the past. I'm claiming right now that online players are not better than life players. They're the same sucky players. Obviously at the same relative stakes they're going to be better. So if you take 1-2 live the 1-2 players online are better. But most 1-2 live player play smaller online. So if you were playing 50 no limit or a limit similar to that you're getting the same sucky play as that you would live. But somehow it's harder to win at 50 no limit online then it is in a live game. This makes no sense because you got the same sucky players playing both those limits. Win rate should be about the same. The main thing that stops win rates from being the same is the fact that the pots are smaller online

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted Apr 23, 2025, 8:47 PM#503

by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963695#post58963695)

I can end this whole thread in this one post. Number one it may be random, it may not be random, but nobody will ever prove it one way or another. It's an impossibility.

I don't think people really understand that if you play poker correctly and continually put your money in the pot in +EV situations while also actually knowing what you're doing, then you will print money. In order for that to be possible, you have to trust the RNG is actually random because then the math does not work out. The problem that most of you have is you really do not understand variance will take you thru peaks and valleys and you have to account for things like risk of ruin and actually know wtf you're doing with your bankroll If you think you can run up a bunch of money and that you're going to keep it all, then you have no clue what you're doing. For example, if you're destined to make $2,000 in a month or something, then it's not going to a few bucks a day until you hit $2k. You're gonna make like $10k and then lose $8k to net $2k. The morons itt will do something like win $10k, withdraw half, and claim they're getting cheated as they go on the $8k downswing. You need volume and to actually have a true win rate for this to even be possible and then you have to not lose your mind and/or tilt when things get rough. An extremely tall task in today's era with high rake, low rakeback, and less fish than ever to be split among the regs/sharks by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963695#post58963695)

Number two if someone did prove it it wouldn't matter people are still going to play no sight is ever going to get shut down because of it they probably won't even get fined because of it.

What site(s) should be shut down? The problem I have with people who say this is I've played at a lot of them. There is no discernible difference from my perspective, and I've put in massive volume at PartyPoker, 2 iterations of PokerStars, Full Tilt, several others. The way people blame and accuse the site itself would mean they all have to be rigged and from everything I know they are very clearly not. It's those people blaming and accusing who can't wrap their head around the fundamental aspects of poker in general and how variance affects the games and the individual psychologically I have tried to explain to people politely over the years and to this day people just explode into pure denial of reality. They'll keep playing to the bitter end because their egos can't simply walk away or concede incompetence. I'll never understand it. I admit incompetence on a daily basis by choosing to not play games I don't believe I can beat, or individual players I believe are just simply better than I am. If a player can't even figure stuff like that out, then they probably shouldn't play at all or need to gain experience so eventually they do begin to understand. But it's a massive learning curve by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963695#post58963695)

Number three if possibly could be not random. We will never know. The reason they give you is that the online games are tougher because the players better. Which is complete BS. The same losing player that's playing one two in a casino is the same losing player that's playing 50 no limit and 100 no limit online. It's the same suck. They're not better online as a whole. The only... See full post

This is all completely wrong. Live players and games are much, much softer than their online counterparts. The pots are smaller because the players are literally more competent and play tighter. Fish are fish, but they are fewer and further between online and the average player in terms of skill has done nothing but improve over the years The rake since day 1 has done nothing but go up. Every time the rake increases, some winning players in the player pool become losing players. Everyone across the board makes less and loses more by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964250#post58964250)

Teflon, to embarrass yourself?Don't you think guys, who insult others with no reason embarrass themself?Btw, what is "instead of taking the L"? Don't know the phrase, sorry.At the moment, i do know the game is badly rigged. Yeah, it's pretty hard to bring this idea to the society of players half of which are saying "i'm pro" but are interested in keeping the game as it goes.The... See full post

Lmao the only person who is embarrassed here is you There really isn't much to say anymore as it's very clear you're a wackjob who just keeps saying the same (incorrect) things over and over All I did was come into the thread and offer my own insight and info but there is nothing left to do but point and laugh by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964385#post58964385)

I didn't claim players are not better than they were in the past. I'm claiming right now that online players are not better than life players. They're the same sucky players. Obviously at the same relative stakes they're going to be better. So if you take 1-2 live the 1-2 players online are better. But most 1-2 live player play smaller online. So if you were playing 50 no limit... See full post

Win rates are dependent on the rake and your field of opponents. Even if you transplant a live fish to the online, smaller stakes, table, that doesn't mean the win rate is going to be the same. Because it depends on the rake and field of players you're up against

jungmitRegular83 posts
Posted Apr 23, 2025, 9:01 PM#504

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58963897#post58963897)

If one post could end this thread it would have already been done. But yours certainly doesnt even come close.First of all there is the issue of proven guilt. I can make claims here that you are a cheater and say "well i cant prove he is cheater but he cant prove he isnt so therefore the truth lies in the middle". This is not how it works. There is an innocence til proven guilt... See full post

And also what I'm saying is somebody could have 200 million hands, find big discrepancies, and everybody would still dismiss it as it's just normal. The people who don't believe that it's random I'm never going to believe that it is random. And the other side that believes it's random is never going to believe that it's not random. I don't care how much proof somebody has it's never going to change your mind specifically. It'll always be explained away as something that makes sense to you. Just like the people who think it's rigged they're never going to believe that it's not rigged. They're always going to explain it away that makes sense to them. This is why you will never have an answer.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 24, 2025, 11:19 AM#505

Simply untrue again I believe a major site is not rigging their RNG unless I see proof/evidence of it. And this evidence can be correctly done, by actual raw data and analysis by someone with at least half a brain, so not Johnmir. But to this day I still havent seen that evidence. What I do see is micro players (often losers) complain and making up data or picking out specific hands to ratify their delusions. But also, lets think about this from an iPoker point of view. Rigging their RNG doesnt come without risks, if they get caught they probably lose their license in a lot of countries and have to pay a huge fine. So their risk is huge, but what is their possible reward?? How does iPoker benefit from rigging their RNG against Johnmir (a micro player with 4k losing hands on that site!)? Do they to it just out of pure evil? You have to be a total looney conspiracy theorist to believe this is happening. But then again this thread does attract those types of people

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 24, 2025, 3:00 PM#506

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964994#post58964994)

but what is their possible reward??

Can't believe you are as silly as this... Looks like it's necessary to repeat some basic economical maths - by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58911084#post58911084)

And this fits to the aim of the room's owner - maximize the commission. Software tries to help the opp to win the game.In case we play and i win all the games - the room gets (for example we play 1$ Heads-up and my opponent got 20$ bankroll)2$ (prize poo) * 10% (commission of the room) * 20 games = 4$But if the software manages to equalize our game and to let us win one by one ... See full post

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964994#post58964994)

How does iPoker benefit from rigging their RNG against Johnmir (a micro player with 4k losing hands on that site!)?

Rigging vs me? Are you delusional? If they rigged flops - once and for the first time - we managed to open all the opponents hands and saw 0,0000003% case. It means the game is rigged everywhere else. Since it's a software mate. Hope you do know what programming is. It's not like "some angry huge guy is monitoring me playing and "shuffling" cards". Rofl. It's obvious to a ten years old kid. But not to you. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964994#post58964994)

I believe a major site is not rigging their RNG unless I see proof/evidence of it.

Yeah 😃, of course, that's why you say - by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58909668#post58909668)

I'm not going to download something from a lunatic like yourself, next thing the boards are rigged against me as well😉

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964994#post58964994)

if they get caught they probably lose their license in a lot of countries and have to pay a huge fine.

Sure, that's why I got answers from 5 countries, but not from Curacao. They didn't even reply "We do not consider your information relevant." Just no answer. Awesome, just a customer ignoring looks like iPoker is under a huge risk. Okay, anyway, if a guy don't watch news, and have no idea that companies go to break laws to get extra incomes, he is probably some adult guy with a brain development level of 5 years old kid. by jungmit m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964407#post58964407)

And the other side that believes it's random is never going to believe that it's not random.

In case they are silly or addicted to gambling - no, they won't believe any facts. They can be also interested in the scam, if they win money generating a huge activity in the room by playing several table simultaneously. by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964397#post58964397)

What site(s) should be shut down?

I would start from iPoker. Never played anything expensive there, not even tried - personally, not even interested, but it's a scam. by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58964397#post58964397)

Lmao the only person who is embarrassed here is you There really isn't much to say anymore

Deep view. I enjoyed your arguments 😉

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 24, 2025, 3:46 PM#507

You say you never played anything expensive on iPoker. But you havent on any other site either. On Stars you are the same 10nl losing player. That is the only fact that surrounds you, not your "analysis" Also, why are you emailing countries? And why is it suspicious in your eyes that Curacao is not mailing you back? You know ipoker (ie playtech) has its license in Great Britain. GGpoker actually holds their license in Curacao so they would be the shady site. Other responses that you have gotten "from countries" had said nothing about rigging or unfair gaming, all they mentioned was licensing. If you had proof you would have a case in court. Instead you are just mailing random places and the customer service there is nice enough to answer you. But nothing is done with your data. And rightfully so 😉 Furthermore, now you say they are not rigging flops... But most of your many many screenshots only contain a flop and, in your eyes, were proof of rigging. How do you combine these 2 contradictory statements? If they rigging is done elsewhere (ie holecards, turn and river) why would you make so many screenshots of only flops? And once again, if you can predict the turns and river, why are you a losing loser at micro stakes? Edit: this is you ranting about flops (which now arent rigged anymore all of a sudden): https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58959196&postcount=93396) You say: "After predicting the following behavior of iPoker's software (the developer of the software is Playtech PLC) - the software provokes a player who folds strong hands on a preflop by dealing a flop according to his starting hand." So you can predict the flop? Or at least, you could. You change your narrative a few too many times. Also you claim these hands are played subsequently. But you can the see the Button move around from one place to another instead of just clockwise (what would happen if these hands were in fact played right after each other). The last laughable thing about this all is the fact that you are playing a €0.50 bounty hunter and think you have the slightest clue about poker/data.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 24, 2025, 9:45 PM#508

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

You say you never played anything expensive on iPoker. But you havent on any other site either. On Stars you are the same 10nl losing player. That is the only fact that surrounds you, not your "analysis"

We have already discussed that I have been a tournament player

And you have already seen a part of this tournaments history. But you do not even remember the dialog. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

And why is it suspicious in your eyes that Curacao is not mailing you back? You know ipoker (ie playtech) has its license in Great Britain.

GB has answered. I don't know if they are going to act. I do not need them to act. Their citizen need that, in my opinion. But Red Star Poker ("RSP Entertainment N.V.") is registered in Curacao -

(GCB - a logotype of The Gaming Control Board of Curacao) by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

If you had proof you would have a case in court. Instead you are just mailing random places and the customer service there is nice enough to answer you.

Never mailed this to customer service. It's not their "level of info". Only mailed to gambling supervisors. And it's, actually awesome, many of them answered. They do not answer EVERYONE. More then that, I sent the material on "@info.com". And many of them (Czech, The UK, Switzerland, Russia) redirected it to special groups to analyze. What for did they do this? Or did they decide to lie in stead of saying "This company is not registered here. We can't help you with this."? They could easily do so, and it would be much more convenient for them. In stead, they answered that my analysis is deep enough and they are investigate the case. I mean, okay, they are probably lying. But I don't see a reason to lie, since they can just refuse to consider the materials. I won't waste such an energy to sit in Curacao's court. It's enough that I have already done a big work, objectively. Few people in the world are able to perform this. It's Russian. But still - my position and it's upgrade in Zurich Insurance

My specialization is maths modeling (cathedra of the theory of probabilities and mathematical statistics)

My diploma (the final work) - "Development of the software for Texas Hold'em poker statistics analysis" - yeah, mate, it's my final work in the university.

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

Furthermore, now you say they are not rigging flops...

I said "If they rigged flops - once and for the first time - we managed to open all the opponents hands and saw 0,0000003% case. It means the game is rigged everywhere else." May be my English... Have to admit. I meant "since the game is rigged on these flops, it's rigged everywhere". The word "if" was probably used the wrong way. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

If they rigging is done elsewhere (ie holecards, turn and river) why would you make so many screenshots of only flops?

Because it's easy to understand for people (watching flops). Preflop is also analyzed -

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

And once again, if you can predict the turns and river, why are you a losing loser at micro stakes?

You took 4K hands - it's a fun (very short) distance, where I tested the software. So that, I intentionally chose a low limit. But yes, it's impossible to win vs the software, because

  1. Pokerstars software - to avoid your bankroll extra growth - blocks all-ins winning on a prefinal table of MTTs, if you start playing only "positive" hands (and they are the next after iPoker to go)
  2. Red Star poker's software - to avoid your bankroll extra growth - starts to generate only hands that are negative for a player, who managed to "fool" the software. Every hand, one of opponents get AKo/AKs/TT+ hand to block you in the game cone. It's hard to understand, but yes, that's a software, and they predict this kind of stuff. I'm surprised they didn't ban me from PS and iPoker. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

So you can predict the flop? Or at least, you could.

I can predict if the hand is positive for me. If I got AQo on a preflop, I do know, if someone got a better hand behind me (according to the software algorithm it's possible to know) - (a picture from Russian poker forum)

In case you think, it's just some random guess. Russian guys had this description. I played an MTT, and pushed around 10 premium hands/pocket top pairs. And I folded ONLY this hand AQo. I mean, I somehow "guessed" only one hand to be beaten )), at the same time I confidently push -

And Russian guys have already saw this. But they ask me to make a stream on youtube to comment the logic, and prove I do really "read" the software behavior. They can't believe it's possible, rofl... And i'm going to do a stream, where I will play 5-10 SnG's where anyone can just see, that I almost never "miss". by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

Also you claim these hands are played subsequently. But you can the see the Button move around from one place to another instead of just clockwise

Because I only show hands

  • I folded preflop
  • my opponents played postflop (the flop was dealt) That is why in terms of game cones it's not "one by one" sequence - some of them I played on a postflop (didn't for on a preflop), or the flop wasn't dealt. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58965177#post58965177)

The last laughable thing about this all is the fact that you are playing a €0.50 bounty hunter and think you have the slightest clue about poker/data.

I have no reason to test the software and to show how it work on higher limits. Cause it's obvious - in case micros are rigged, higher limits are also rigged for sure. And yeah, my education is not just about analyzing data, it's about analyzing Texas Hold'em data. But of course I haven't got a clue about analyzing poker data, lol.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 25, 2025, 11:34 AM#509

You dont have a clue about analyzing poker data. Everything you've shown confirms that. And you are the only one who doesnt see it. Just the fact that you know Excel doesnt make you a qualified analist. You say you have no reason to test the software at higher limits.. You have no reason to test the software, period. You are not the poker players' savior coming in to save everyone from rigged games. You are a losing micro cash game players and maybe breakeven tournament player. A players who claims he is of professional level but doesnt play higher than $7 buyins... Also you say "I can predict if the hand is positive for me. If I got AQo on a preflop, I do know, if someone got a better hand behind me (according to the software algorithm it's possible to know) - (a picture from Russian poker forum)" This must be bad english because I cant make anything of it. I am not a native English speaker as well but this doesnt show proof. You just show a screenshot of AQo with someone else having KK. If I show a screenshot of AQo with someone having AJo behind me, does that disprove it??? This is non-saying and nobody would regard this as being even close to evidence, which you do a lot. But then you say, according to the software algorithm it's possible to know This is too vague for evidence. Its like me saying "according to the look in johnmir's eyes on the youtube video the guy is delusional". Do you accept this as evidence or do I need to explain what is delusional about you... Of course I do. So explain the algorithm that makes sure when you get Aqo someone behinds you gets KK. You have shown loose screenshots, they dont say anything. You make up excel sheets with filled in numbers (this doesnt say anything either). You say you know the algorithm, explain it. But if you were actually smart, you would beat the game with this algorithm. There are a lot of players who dont have the skill you have of predicting cards/outcomes and they actually make a living out of poker.. why dont you?🙂 Lastly about gaming commissions answering you back. I havent seen one reply back that is about rigging (and remember this is a rigged poker thread, not a licensing thread). They are concered about the law and licensing. You say "In stead, they answered that my analysis is deep enough and they are investigate the case". They havent said that about your rigging analysis and you know this. Cmon man stop twisting and turning. Get professional help and leave poker alone, its the best thing for you.

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted Apr 29, 2025, 6:55 AM#510

See Slugant thats exactly the point. He is down because he is getting cheated! How do you not get that? John is loosing but John is an expert level player! So what can the explanation for that be?

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 29, 2025, 7:09 PM#512

Yea a negative roi is quite amazing at an average stake of €0.43, especially for a "professional level player" I guess he is professional level delusional but nothing else. How do you see your tournament results Johnmir, eapecially as a self proclaimed tournament player?🙂

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 30, 2025, 12:03 PM#513

Guys, you kidding me... Look at that! https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=58959224&postcount=93403) The fact is that you start to discuss my micro limit results on iPoker, where I was testing the software to stop the scam - says a lot. And it's even more fun that you think a guy of 39 years old age making this kind of analysis

and knowing so many nuances of rooms software will EVER play micros for any other purpose then testing the software. It's a pure fun, like I talk to 10 years old kids. You simply can't produce a **** about the analysis and facts of rigging. Because if you could - for sure you wouldn't discuss me. Thank you, guys, I appreciate your attention to me personally ♥ but I'm here to discuss rigging. My gaming level should be discussed in any other topic, but here people come to watch by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58913120#post58913120)

I will try to explain you. Look at the thread's name - "The great Poker is rigged debate" 😀What are people supposed to post here?1. Facts of rigging the game (evidence)2. Rare cases/hands to draw attention of players to a specific behavior of the software3. Statistics of the game showing dependencies in card dealing process (proofs, calculations, etc)4. Methods of rigging the ... See full post

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted Apr 30, 2025, 3:28 PM#514

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58971146#post58971146)

The fact is that you start to discuss my micro limit results on iPoker, where I was testing the software to stop the scam - says a lot. And it's even more fun that you think a guy of 39 years old age making this kind of analysis

No I am discussing your micro limit results is because there are no other results You've only played micro stakes games. You've never beat them so you could never move up in stakes. That says a lot And wtf you're 39?? I saw your youtube video and assumed you were 50. Living in Russia seems even more unhealthy than expected

JustJokeNewbie3 posts
Posted Apr 30, 2025, 7:52 PM#515

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58971295#post58971295)

by Johnmir m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58971146#post58971146)

The fact is that you start to discuss my micro limit results on iPoker, where I was testing the software to stop the scam - says a lot. And it's even more fun that you think a guy of 39 years old age making this kind of analysis

No I am discussing your micro limit results is because there are no other resultsYou've only played micro stakes games. You've never beat them so you c... See full post

don't believe what they say about russia. My pet bear won't lie.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted Apr 30, 2025, 7:59 PM#516

by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58971295#post58971295)

I saw your youtube video and assumed you were 50. Living in Russia seems even more unhealthy than expected

Haha! Seriously, living in Moscow is more then comfortable... But I chose a pretty complicated life, but it was still unusual. At least it was REAL. I was a successful analyst and a project manager. But decided to live office life and moved to sport. Managed to start from zero and beaten after only two years my income which I have had in finance. Became a successful tennis coach. At the same time I wanted to test my abilities and worked very hard as a tennis player, not only as a coach. I trained too much, and got a hard injury and even doctors didn't manage to help with this. I lost an ability to walk... But managed to bring myself to a normal life totally alone (I had to study one more "sphere" - medicine for this). While I was badly injured I was testing the software of different rooms trying to understand what is really going on. Just decided to use my statistical skills. Now I'm working as a coach again, all the calculations I presented here was made 3 years ago. I almost don't play nowadays. And I look older cause, probably, a pretty huge stress regarding these hard years of fighting for the health. I don't feel "tired" at the same time. Pretty fresh actually. I regret I had to waste so much of my life time to explain players what is really going on... But who else, lol.

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted May 1, 2025, 12:38 PM#517

so you've switchef from succesful analyst, project manager and tennis coach to unsuccesful micro stakes loser?? makes sense🙂 It seems that everything you type is a lie. And the biggest lie of course is that you tell everyone that you are a professional level player. If you truly think you are a professional level player what does that say about your other claims... Are you a financial expert because you once found 10 roebel on the floor? Are you a succesful tennis coach because you once hit a ball. That does seem to be the low bar for you.

MagRailProRegular35 posts
Posted May 1, 2025, 1:24 PM#518

Johnmir you are wasting your time with these forum trolls and desinformants. You should not even waste your energy to react to all these statements that are just focussing on discrediting you as a human ad hominem or your results instead of the patterns that you detected. Just focus on publishing pattern results instead of feeding toxic people. They will try to turn the most rediculous and self explaining thing against you just to make online poker look legit. That is their mission, and they will not stop even if that means going ito the most toxic and disgusting behaviour. If it should ever come out officially that online poker is rigged which it is, then they will not care and just disapear from this forum and focus on YT comments and discredit people there about whatever agenda they are trying to protect. They are flying monkeys.��

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted May 1, 2025, 3:03 PM#519

He never published any pattern, he just posts random flops and excel sheets he makes himself. The only pattern visible is no matter what (micro) poker game Johnmir is playing, he will lose. And its not just iPoker, he played the same strat on Pokerstars and lost in similar fashion. They must rig it exactly the same way huh🙂 MRP, you are enabling a mental patient. But then again, you probably are one yourself. Now its not even a site that's rigged, but "online poker" as a whole. I regret to inform you guys, the reason for you being losing players at microstakes is not because every pokersite is rigging against you. Its because you are not good and smart enough, accept it.

TeflonDawgRegular35 posts
Posted May 1, 2025, 5:02 PM#520

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58972221#post58972221)

Johnmir you are wasting your time with these forum trolls and desinformants. You should not even waste your energy to react to all these statements that are just focussing on discrediting you as a human ad hominem or your results instead of the patterns that you detected.Just focus on publishing pattern results instead of feeding toxic people.They will try to turn the most redi... See full post

Disinformants? Lmao Have you actually looked at the "research" he's posted? I encouraged him (and Amazing3338) to have their work peer reviewed and both literally met me with insults and something to the tune of "we're experts and have already proven everything" I dunno about you, but if I'd done a comprehensive audit of RNGs of various sites and uncovered this supposed, massive scandal, then I'd also be looking to start multiple class action lawsuits to make these supposed, unscrupulous, corrupt sites pay for their scumbaggery. I'd be contacting Josem and/or others respected in the poker community to review my research to confirm and ensure it's accurate and not flawed so as to be solid evidence in said future class action lawsuits It's not helping his case that he's made claims about his ability to play poker and we can literally Sharkscope his results...

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted May 1, 2025, 8:48 PM#521

And those results are with knowledge of a rigged RNG. Imagine if he didnt knew the RNG, he would be losing -50bb/100 at the micros 😃

donjonnieRegular41 posts
Posted May 2, 2025, 8:00 AM#522

Maybe cross post your findings to the probability or math forum. You might find someone willing to do the work and dismantle your "analysis" in depth John.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted May 2, 2025, 9:29 PM#523

by MagRailPro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58972221#post58972221)

Johnmir you are wasting your time with these forum trolls and desinformants. You should not even waste your energy to react to all these statements that are just focussing on discrediting you as a human ad hominem or your results instead of the patterns that you detected.Just focus on publishing pattern results instead of feeding toxic people.They will try to turn the most redi... See full post

"flying monkeys" 😃 Haha, in fact, MRP, I have to concentrate on my own life also. I wanna try myself in offline poker. So I have to work more as a coach for a bigger bankroll for this. That's why I'm not sure I can find enough time to reactions. You are right, it takes time and energy to answer ) Yeah, more then that, I'm not sure these guys are actually able to admit online-poker is unfair. It's their reputation, they feel so PRO winning a rigged game. The difference between you, me, Amazing is that we would win a fair game, but i'm not sure - they are able to win a fair game. Otherwise they would never risk their REAL reputation arguing about FACTs of rigging. I'm afraid, online poker results in a rigged game - all the got in their life 😮 Just try to imagine. If the only thing some guy is able to do - winning in a rigged game (rofl...) What is it for this guy? These game results are the only chance to keep somehow sure his life is not senseless. Online poker world is just crazy, lol. It's so far from real life, some fake world in almost every aspect! 🤐 Thank you for support. All this can be really annoying, since having really huge problems in a real life I decided to start all this. I have to "combine" several directions at the same time. Coaching, working with my health and commenting the materials, making streams. Crazy. It's really awesome and brave that you decided to provide your own experience, it was important in my opinion. The more players share their thoughts about this the more chances to stop this scam someday! by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58972196#post58972196)

It seems that everything you type is a lie.

Man, the most important stuff that I "type" is simply checkable! All the data was uploaded. All the algorithms where described. You DO NOT NEED to believe me. You can open the game and check if this works. After a huge positive all-in like 80% on the final table you get involved in a PREDICTABLE trap of the software. EVEN if you are a regular player. It works for everyone. Ipoker, Pokerstars, Partypoker (may be - Coin poker, Poker Dom) - it's EVERYWHERE. THE SAME model of exchanging "good wave" then "bad wave" of hands. You took a good decision - the software generates a hand to involve you in a bad decision. And it's TESTABLE, just folding in time. by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58972295#post58972295)

He never published any pattern

LMAO! https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1... (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FfwlH8R7nBEODKlpcUgsGmyH6qjkis9z?usp=drive_link) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPf2urc... (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPf2urc3J_0GrXz0l0Kzv-1aOnADjtIw/view?usp=drive_link) SO MANY materials posted. It's enough to close iPoker 5 times already, lol. But it looks that they are simply interested in keeping the scam alive. Like you are! by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58972392#post58972392)

I encouraged him (and Amazing3338) to have their work peer reviewed and both literally met me with insults

Didn't insult you. Unexpected comment. I'm not used to insult people. Even if a guy insult me (not you) I usually avoid insults. I don't remember you insulted me, would be strange if I would insult you for no reason. I don't know anyone here on the forum. And I don't know people, who could "approve" my research. If some people here will be interested in stopping online scam they will ask those guys, who they know to watch my materials and to check if it's correct. I did my job. And this job is just huge. I know it. That's why all this online circus is still working ... Cause you need to make a significant effort to prove it's rigged. But all the other steps, guys, I can't lose such a huge part of my life to prove something, that looks like noone really care about. I don't see that anyone really care if the game is rigged or not. Some players earn money with no any poker skills, some are addicted to playing. by TeflonDawg m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58972392#post58972392)

It's not helping his case that he's made claims about his ability to play poker and we can literally Sharkscope his results...

TD, if you could "literally sharkscope my results" you would know that i'm a winning play at least. Lol. You say you can check, but you obviously can't! Guys show some 10K cash hands on micros, ignore ANYTHING else. Well, okay, they are probably clowns... I have won 585$ (just an example) playing 7$ SnGs in 2020, right? And I lost 150$ in 2021 playing micros. LMFAO? 585 - 150 = +++435 (MAY BE?) and we still managed to find some GENIUS who says in every branch of this forum "He is losing micros!!" Is he adequate? Personally? TD, I do not care, cause 7$ limit - is a very low limit actually. In my opinion winning on 7$ SnGs is nothing about professional level. Any average amateur can win 7$... But it's still funny to read this pure incompetent ****, lol

SlugantShark336 posts
Posted May 2, 2025, 9:49 PM#524

So all the sites rig exactly the same way?? that doesnt seem smart now does it LOLOL And I fact did check your results, and not just the daily very small simples you provide but actually checkable raw data & big sample. And guess what, it turned out every single time (without any exception) that over your "career" you have been a losing player.. at micro stakes!!! Now i can imagine that it is hard to live with that fact and you are rightfully embarressed but you cant just assume its because of EVERY site being rigged. The one common denominator is that you are losing player, accept the facts. Now you keep on claiming to know the RNG and know when to fold. Why do you lose at such a big rate as micro stakes then??? There is only one scam here, its not ipoker or pokerstars, its you! You are the one providing small samples of winning where I provide sample over 10 times that where you are losing. But then again, you've shown time and time again that you do not understand numbers. Otherwise you wouldnt be stuck losing at microstakes on every site.

JohnmirShark103 posts
Posted May 2, 2025, 10:04 PM#525

by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58973105#post58973105)

Maybe cross post your findings to the probability or math forum. You might find someone willing to do the work and dismantle your "analysis" in depth John.

Man, just open this video and watch - https://drive.google.com/file/d/16d2YB55... (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16d2YB55xykMvw1wBPtbrlT8hvqe5w1MB/view?usp=drive_link) Lol, what do you think about this yourself? How the f*** can it look like a random game. If you say you do know "how the world works" and you are good at poker - WHAT MATH FORUM DO YOU NEED to see the game is rigged in some ****ing crazy way on those once opened hands. The first time I opened hands and see this! And you, guys, act, like you know something about poker, but at the same time, you talk about this rigged **** like it's "normal". You kidding me once again lol... Or do you think this picture came from Excel? Lol, it came from a REAL GAMES PLAYED VS SIT_OUT guy who opened his hands and managed to hit every ****ing flop on high BBs -

Or is it one more "random excel sheet"? Rofl, it's based on a real data that you can simply check.

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