Ongoing VP TR, PART 2!

Hi all, apparently my previous thread may have gotten so long that it's causing issues for the website. So, here is a new thread to keep this going, and it also gives me an opportunity to provide a quick recap of how I've gotten to that point. Background-

• former poker player; got in pre-2003 boom, printed money online until about 2007 when games got harder/I started making decent money
• took poker roll and transitioned to straight casino degen. Went thru a blackjack and craps phase
• Dad played progressively bigger and more at various Vegas casinos starting around 2005, settled on Wynn and gave them all of his action. Massive comps and Chairman's club status for Dad resulted
• I started playing VP around 2013, 2014? knowing it was one of the best casino games on offer; slagged off of parent's comp for years
• as I played more and bigger, Dad's host became my host
• Circa 2019-2021, went on the most massive sun run, +500k over that time period; basically played bigger, kept winning, played bigger, kept winning, etc
• 2022-now- basically have run cold and am trying to sustain my VP for the long term Game of choice-
• Triple double bonus, preferring multiline and ultimate X
• will play craps, more often with buddies
• despise blackjack Typical TR features stays at the Wynn, good food, gambling, +/- other stuff (shows, family coming with, etc) That's probably a decent synopsis!

Rest of Day 3, Day 4

Where we left off, the early show of OPM had just finished and we're headed to dinner at SuperFrico. Sorry for the delay in this last installment, I figured let's enjoy the New Year's Holiday and save this for later. I can confirm that some performers from the early show were performing in the restaurant during the dinner, so they must change acts or at a minimum some of the performers between the early and late shows. We decide to get the tasting menu. It's a little pricey, but has most of what we were going to order anyways. Plus D is assuming his comp will cover this meal.

Overall, a disappointing meal. Most of the dishes were meh and/or too sweet. There was zero variation in the tomato sauce between dishes, meaning any dish with tomato sauce had exactly the same flavor. It's like it all came from the same vat. Given the venue, I wasn't expecting much but I WAS expecting more than we got. 4/10 at best. Dessert was the best, that was a solid 7/10 (cherry cheesecake mousse). I'd come back for the show, but not the food, and it sounds like the show has gone away now...

Picked this up at SuperFrico. They offered barrel strength buffalo trace which I'd never heard of. Turns out, it was a special partnering between the BT distillery and Spiegelworld. I got a pour which was meh- it's a little young. However, they offered the bottles for 250$ which is "normal" for high end barrel proof bourbons I'm used to getting (eg, Stagg, Bookers). I'm sure there's a Vegas markup here as well, but hey, I just hit 200k! I decide to live a little and purchase the bottle for collector's purposes. It's not worth drinking at that price. Who knows, maybe one day it gains value??

After dinner, we head back to the Wynn.

Cosmo's many Cadillacs. We head to hi limit to grind out the remainder of D's points. He's got a long way to go- by my math, hrs today AND tomorrow.

Initially, we're doing ok bc of those hits. Giving money back as fast as we get it, but at least we're alive. Wife goes to bed at some point, but shockingly the run good switch doesn't materialize. We start losing fast, then faster. I had told myself "don't give back more than 10k" for this session, but once we blow past it we just keep going. I reason that we're going to play on his card tomorrow anyways, what difference does it make it we lose today or tomorrow? What's clear is we're committed to his points, we're pretty close and the year (and chance to get him top tier status) is drawing to a close. So we keep going... and keep losing. At some point I get up from the multiline machine in disgust, head to spin and UX, give back a few more thousand before I finally throw in the towel. Stuck 17k for that session. Ouch. Head upstairs, shockingly wife is still awake! She gives me 1/2 a gummy and I collapse in bed, exhausted and pissed off at myself. Day 3 result- -22k Overall- +20k

Day 4 When I went to bed, I was dreading the last AM session. My thinking is-

• definitely going to wake up early, definitely going to play (on my card, not D's)
• definitely going to grind points for D to get him to black status
• IF I get pummeled in the early AM session, and the session with D sucks, I could somehow turn a trip when I was up 40k+ into a loser!!!! When I wake up, it's bright out. I figure, it's probably 7am or so. That's good! Stumble to bathroom, check time... 9am?!! This is f'ing amazing. I slept right through the AM session! I'm definitely doing the gummy thing when I'm in Vegas again. I don't believe I've EVER slept past 8am in Vegas. D texted me an hr ago. I tell him I'm up, we plan to grab an early lunch at Red8 and skip breakfast. I tell D to meet me in hi limit- let's get this point grinding thing done!

We're running behind expectation for dealt quads this trip. Which of course means, here comes dealt quads number 2! Multiline is a great place to get them! Spoiler Show

Meh. We're grinding, grinding, grinding... eventually we get D to black, and what cost us 17k last night only cost 2k today! Definitely take that. We meet up with wife for lunch and I quickly pack before heading down for the last session. It's multiline time, more lines, let's see if I can smash a home run before we leave! I'm up 18k for the trip and tell myself hard stop, leave with at least 10k profit.

As can be seen, I went pretty big at the end. Playing super fast as the clock was ticking down... nope. No home runs this trip. I cash out 11k up total.

In for 60, out for 71. A far comedown from my height this trip, but a win is a win, and I have to remember that winning at all is a good result. I've run really well at the Wynn in 2023, definitely in the black for the year. A few big losses but several big wins as well and the majority of my trips were winners. Day 4 result- - 9k Overall- +11k

Postscript- not much to say about this trip, overall did well doing non-gambling things, had a lot of fun, and aside from Sat had no major implosions. Between the Wynn and my 200k hit at Barona I am going to owe some serious tax next year. ALSO- got a text during the trip- my Rolex finally arrived! So I picked that up the week after I got back.

Thanks for reading!

Book it! Looks and sounds like a successful trip more or less all around, thanks for doing these leon.

Thanks Leon - great trip and happy you pulled in another win All the best for the year ahead

That Rolex is sick. Thanks for bringing us along for a GREAT gambling YEAR!!

Leon is just living the dream.

leon apologies if this has been asked and answered before but in terms of your comp - are these laid out clearly before each trip, is it just assumed you'll have it when you show up or do you need to talk to your host before arrival to ensure everything is in order each time?

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58401879#post58401879)

leon apologies if this has been asked and answered before but in terms of your comp - are these laid out clearly before each trip, is it just assumed you'll have it when you show up or do you need to talk to your host before arrival to ensure everything is in order each time?

It's all of the above. I'm 99% certain of what I can get from my host going in, both from experience and directly talking to him. He's known for years that I'd prefer to know everything up front, even if the answer is no. I definitely have gotten the sense over the years that casinos and certainly my host in particular would prefer the latter- play cards close to the vest, never reveal info, and comp more than expected perhaps on the back end but give up nothing on the front end. Reluctantly, my host has basically confirmed I can get a near-top end 2bd suite no issue. I used to rate a Salon suite but they cut everyone's comp, my included. I think this was around 2022? They also cut my free credit and food comp. Anyways, I "know" I'll get a certain amount of free credit and food comp. Rides, show tix etc. One cabana per trip. Anything explicitly promised on my player's card (eg Master Classes, cruises). AND, with my personality, I always confirm everything going in, just in case there's funny business afterwards. It's been a long time, but I had a trip years ago where we left things open ended and my host said something vague like "the food and spa should be covered". We used a lot of food and my wife hit about 1000$ worth of spa. We ended up paying 500$ out of pocket and I was pissed. Talked to the host and he said "we limit you to 2k comp total and you spent 2500". I told him how annoying it was to think things would be covered and then eat an OOP cost, if I knew I was going to have to pay I never would have gone over LOL. So since then he's been better (not perfect) about specifying dollar amounts. The above paragraph explains, in my mind, why they want to keep info secret. There's just so much potential to **** a customer out of some extra money if you don't establish things beforehand. Additionally, they can seem like they're "going the extra mile" and comp after a bad loss, when in actuality they were always going to pick it up. Anyways, so I know most of what I can get, always confirm and arrange beforehand, and sometimes I shoot for extras (eg if I exceed the food comp a bit, if I lost a lot can they pick up the second cabana, etc). I've been pleasantly surprised the last few trips when I know for a fact I exceeded my food comp they just took care of everything. I was going to ask anyways but they just went ahead and did it. Lastly, I have learned over the years by extension what I'm NOT getting. For instance, I think I'll never be Chairman's club. It's invite only, word on the street is you need to lose 150k on a trip OR have 150k yearly theo. That doesn't make sense to me, you'd think a yearly 150k theo is shockingly easy to hit. Maybe they mean 150k theo per trip. If it's the former then I have definitely hit that, and I've asked many times about Chairman and my host has always said "we'll see" or blown me off completely. I'm surmising (with pride) that I'm not that valuable of a customer- I tend to make the best plays, play the best games, and max out my comp every time. For god's sake, I jack all the free stuff I can and bring it home each time LOL. I've never gone completely on tilt and blown a whole bankroll in a day. I'm sure they know all of this, have done the math and know they want me, but they don't need me. Same thing with villas- asked several times, ghosted every time. Last time I even said "how much would I have to pay OOP, combined with comp, to get a villa? I'm willing to pay". Still ghosted.

thanks for the thoughtful response, very interesting as a small timer who never had a regular casino and stuck to poker this is all unknown territory for me

congrats on the watch! try to be careful around certain areas since watch thefts seem to be alot more common in recent years. the fluted bezel tends to reflect alot of light and it's a pretty recognizable rolex design cue.

by pokermon! m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58402639#post58402639)

congrats on the watch! try to be careful around certain areas since watch thefts seem to be alot more common in recent years. the fluted bezel tends to reflect alot of light and it's a pretty recognizable rolex design cue.

Appreciate that. I generally walk around suspicious of other humans to the point where my wife thinks I'm paranoid. And yes, your advice is sound. I don't dress flashy, haven't driven a nice car ever and haven't ever had quality jewelry before, so I'll definitely have to be a little more cognizant of making myself an unwitting target.

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58365545#post58365545)

So... today happened.So, I decide to give it another 100 hands. After 40 hands I'm stuck 4k (so a loss rate of 100$ per hand!). I'm regretting my decision to play on, but then commit myself to finishing out the 100 hands. And then... dealt quads number 4- Spoiler Show

... See full post

... See full post

Just catching up and holy **** the white whale! Very very nice. I knew when you started off with "so today happened" it was something huge.

I haven't tasted Superfrico's meatballs or chicken parm (I think both they advertise a lot). The beef cheek ravioli is decent, but I'd stick to the pizza. Unfortunately they removed the best item from the menu.

no innuendo on that plate at all bet it's a hit on date night

by REDeYeS00 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58403802#post58403802)

no innuendo on that plate at all bet it's a hit on date night

That was a solo trip :(

Who isn't up for a bit of the ol' scallion in the mantle, am I right? Wink wink nudge nudge say no more

as far i guess a tip between us can be and you rep scallion like a naughty woman

[QUOTE=Leon]Head upstairs, shockingly wife is still awake! She gives me....[/QUOTE] Thought you were going somewhere else with this.

by Your Mom m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408687#post58408687)

Thought you were going somewhere else with this.

Yeah, I'm ashamed to admit I'm the dude that gets sht from wife for ignoring her in Vegas. She's literally told me to be in the room at a certain time on some trips because if left to my own devices I'd just keep gambling, gambling, gambling. The issue generally doesn't arise when we've got friends/kids with us for obv reasons, and therefore rarely bc we usually don't go just the two of us. If it is just the two of us, however... yeah. I'm that shtty husband who has to be cajoled to put out.

Just put a picture of dealt royal on the bed. You'll be good.

LOL

by punkass m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58409429#post58409429)

Just put a picture of dealt royal on the bed. You'll be good.

Or wifey can wear it as a mask.

If it is just the two of us, however... yeah. I'm that shtty husband who has to be cajoled to put out.[/QUOTE]

AL, AL Bundy, is that you?

Quick update- in the "so, this happened" category... since I got back from Vegas mid Dec, I've been getting crushed. Trying not too play too big and mostly succeeding, trying to not give back too much and failing dismally. I've given back 50k to Barona in a month. Went there today with D, we weren't expecting much but hoping for the best, obv. He was in for 10%.

First dealt royal at Barona in 6 yrs, and the first one on this multiline machine. I've now been dealt every hand possible on this machine. Only regret- come 2 weeks earlier when I was playing 25-50% bigger! Obv a good hit for D too.

wowee. v happy for you

Sweet!

Nice one, leon. Thanks for sharing.

but you didn't get it in sequential order keep playing the casino says

geez leon wtf is happening

Last time I went to the local was the dealt royal/80k last week. Wasn't going to go this week, but had a couple appts cancel and I need to hit the butcher which is basically on the way home from the local anyways... I start off playing 100 lines at 25c (125$/push). It's a point multiplier day, and things are warm, so I soon step to 70 lines, 50c credits then 80 lines (200$/push).

Dealt premiums!

Kicker draw/result- Spoiler Show

Will definitely take that! I keep locking up money for taxes, knowing they're coming and it's the responsible thing to do. I wish I could say, "I have an XYZ bankroll" but I know the reality is "I have an XYZ - taxes, which I don't know what they are yet" bankroll which is infinitely less fun.

Whoa, congratulations. The results you share are amazing! Your trip reports almost restore my faith in a future for humanity - it is actually possible, that luck can prevail 😃

2/1 (1/31?) -2/4 TR

Background- have had this trip on the books for a while. I'm planning on going with D and we're going to do our usual Thurs-Sun. D still has had no success finding a new job, and I offered to him to cancel this trip if he needed to conserve funds. I would have still gone solo bc Vegas. He has essentially separated his life/gambling roll his whole life, so in his mind he's still doing ok with both and thus still planned on coming. OK, I'm not going to say no to company... When I saw the weather for San Diego on 2/1 I grew really concerned. I got a weather alert text early 1/30 for 2/1, realized it was going to be bad right around when we were supposed to leave, and snap decided to come in 1/31 night. I generally hate getting into Vegas late in the day, and if this trip is terrible I could just lose more, but that's still better than hours of delay/potentially not getting to go at all if we leave the original departure plans. Secure permission from wife, get a go from D, get an extra day of room from host, and we're now in Vegas almost a day longer! Agenda- Wed- get in in the evening, nothing booked. Thurs- head to Fountainbleau at some point to check it out, dinner at Mother Wolf Fri- dinner at SW, we're seeing Leanne Morgan (comedy) after Sat- dinner at Wing Lei, seeing Heather McMahan (comedy) after Sun- head home A bit more about these comedy shows- I was looking for something D and I could do that would be "free". Both of the shows are blonde women that I've never heard of. Have no idea what we're in for, but assume if they're playing the Wynn they're decent at a minimum. I'm going into it with a completely open mind- the only reason I mention the blonde woman thing is bc I literally thought the Wynn made a mistake on the website at first- two women, one night only, they vaguely look similar, same weekend- is it possible that only one person is playing this weekend? Meh, whatever. The Wynn doesn't make mistakes. Let's do it. Bankroll/food comp-

Bringing 70k with me. I have to survive an extra day. The good news is, I should have my standard 1.5K in food comp, AND D has made black card status from our play in 12/23, so he's also got 2k free credit and 1.5K food comp! We should have plenty for bourbon to bring home. I'll leave things with this teaser- from the local the week before the trip. The last time I went D and I got a dealt royal for 80k, and I'm looking to extend this heater I'm on. Doesn't take long before I get 5 suited connected cards DEALT- Spoiler Show

OK. Not going to say no... but it's prettier than its value.

Keep playing- get 5 suited connected cards dealt AGAIN! Spoiler Show

JEEZ WTF. Just to drive the point home about how low value this is... I still lost 5k this day! Argh. OK, back on track, Day 1 coming soon...

Hope the storm isn't affecting you guys too badly. The weather people are making it sound nearly apocalyptic.

MOAR!

Day 1 D and I board a surprisingly empty 7:30pm flight to Vegas. The general plan is he's going to partner with me 10% on VP, I'll likely partner with him 33% of most of his craps sessions. From my POV I'd rather have 100% of my action on craps, but his bankroll is in survival mode given he "ain't got no J O B" and I'm totally cool with being a bankroll extender for him. We're also planning on putting in action on his Wynn card- we figure we tend to do 3 trips together per year, so if we hit 20k ish tier credits per trip he'll stay Black card at the Wynn. We're also going to hit Cosmo one of the days and put in action on his premier card there, the thinking being with the Cosmo/MGM merge happening it'll be nice to have access to the multitude of good restaurants at the MGM properties. All of this means my Black card is going to get less play on it from here on out, but I'm still in no danger of losing my current comps. As an example, one needs 70k tier credits to make Black, and I finished the year with 415,000, and that's with a huge amount of play on D's card during our Dec trip. Meanwhile, my host keeps ghosting me about making Chairman, so I figure I'm in that spot where I'm Black, no questions asked, but I'm never going to make the next status up.

Never gets old.

Catch a ride in from the airport, 2bd Parlor suite as usual, we're unpacked and downstairs within 15 min of arrival.

I head to my usual. Sure would be nice to open with a monster for once!

D and I feed in 10k in bills and he gives me 1k. We play together for a bit, before he decides he wants to shoot dice. I hand him 1k and off he goes. Meanwhile, UX isn't giving me anything. I move over to spin after giving almost 8k to UX. I'm a little worried at this point- this isn't the opening I'm looking for.

Well, that was a good move!

That 8k gets me even again. Can't believe I've hit a royal before I've even been dealt trip aces (I got dealt premium trips once total at UX and obv blanked them). Then, first dealt quads of the trip! Spoiler Show

PREMIUM! Now, before I draw, let's remind ourselves where we're at with spin and dealt premiums. I can tell you for a fact the last three times I've been dealt premium quads at spin poker, I've gone 0/9 on all the kicker draws. Twice at Barona and once at the Wynn. Once was aces, 12 lines. Had I hit even one kicker on that draw it would have been worth 16k. So yeah, I'm not doing well drawing at kickers at spin specifically. I take a deep breath, and hit draw... Result-

Spoiler Show

That is just incredibly good. 7 out of 9 available spots, bc the all-important center spot came in!!!!

I text D the good news. We're now well up. I decide to go to 15 lines, 150$ a shot.

I think I gave back a few k before moving to hi limit and trying my luck there.

This is awesome- esp the double hit just now. I can't believe I've made 4 royals and STILL haven't even been dealt trip aces once! If the aces can wake up, man this trip will be incredible!

Great draw here too!

And here. EVERYTHING but aces are hot!

I'm playing UX while D is getting paid. At some point he ditched craps (loser) and came to meet me. He's playing on his card, finally hit a jackpot and we're waiting to get his self-pay turned on. I stick 1k into UX while waiting.

ANOTHER ROYAL, STILL no 4 AWAK!

OK, finally.

As can be seen, we spent a lot of time playing pretty big- definitely bigger than my normal. Hit a lot of jackpots, and gave a lot back super fast. It's sick how fast one can lose at triple double, 30-50 lines when things are cold.

At some point, it's after midnight, I'm exhausted and I call it. Great first day, we've got a long trip ahead of us- let's survive and lock in a nice 1st day win.

The sphere from my room.

D elects to keep playing craps- I throw him another 1k and head up. Pop 1/2 a gummy, hoping for the same beautiful sleep I got last time we were here and I took a gummy. Day 1 result- +25k Dealt quads- 1, premium

Day 2 coming soon...

Awesome first day!

Let me be sure I understand. All this happened on the day that you hadn't planned to be in LV at all until the last minute? Regardless, what a day!

What a start

Wow, this entire multi-year run is just unreal, leon. Thanks for sharing. You've probably clarified this before, but does your Day 1 +25k result already include shared action or is your actual result lower after your partner's share and craps losses?

by Tom Ames m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58451271#post58451271)

Let me be sure I understand. All this happened on the day that you hadn't planned to be in LV at all until the last minute? Regardless, what a day!

That's right. Supposed to come in 2/1, actually came in 1/31 evening. by SurpriseBetsX m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58452030#post58452030)

Wow, this entire multi-year run is just unreal, leon. Thanks for sharing. You've probably clarified this before, but does your Day 1 +25k result already include shared action or is your actual result lower after your partner's share and craps losses?

I completely agree. D and I were talking about this during the trip, and I've had this convo with a few other people who "get" the math of gambling etc. We know that taking a huge sample of people into account, the overall results will look like a bell curve and there are going to be a few people that just run super bad or good. You'd never bet ahead of time on a particular person being so far outside of statistical expectation, you just know that given a large enough sample size it's going to happen. So the convos I've had basically involve the fact that at this point, given how well I've run for how long, it appears I'm one of those extreme outliers. Doesn't mean I'm any more likely to run well in the future- I'm just off to such a riproaring start that AT THIS POINT I'm a favorite to post lifetime better results than a lot of people. TLDR version- I've just gotten insanely lucky and I have no plans to give it all back. As far as the daily results, it's net jackpots/craps with the small exception of ongoing action. So some of the craps sessions where we buy in and it's a total bust, I record the buy in loss. If I still have action with D it's not factored in yet. Same with the VP partnership- it's pretty but not totally accurate. It will be completely accurate by end of trip. You can assume that the reported results up to the end do NOT factor in D's %- so I probably finished day 1 up 22k ish, not 25.

Part of Day 2

Wake up right around 5am. Looks like the gummy did nothing. I'm definitely going to have to take a nap at some point today, luckily there should be time for it. Start off at UX and give a little back first, before this lightning strike.

If the rare hits at UX come in, and all the "expected" ones do too, I'm going to do very well. This next run exemplifies this.

Running SO well on royal draws so far.

Then- dealt quads number 2! Spoiler Show

Meh.

RUNNING. SO. WELL.

One more 3 dealt and this would have been so ridiculous.

RUNNING. SO. WELL!!!!! I think this is my 4th 5 digit hit so far. This should be a guaranteed trip winner at this point.

That was just the most insane run I've ever had at UX. I've had bigger hits, obv but the frequency, in such a short period of time... As can be seen, at some point I well exceeded the 50k limit the machine can hold. Cashed out the 50k ticket and started a new one, and got that well over 10k as well! Running so hot this trip and I'm not even supposed to be here yet! At this point, I was up over 80k. I head upstairs to meet D for a room service breakfast. No pics (forgot). After breakfast, D and I head back down. We partner for VP a bit, then he goes to play craps again. Dice so far has been the one element that's been missing, I think he's had a couple of small losers but no chance of a winner yet.

Dealt quads number 3 at spin!

Spoiler Show

5 digit hit number FIVE of the trip coming up!

Here we see the power of that center spot again... held a pair of aces, and things fell just perfect that I got 2 4AWAK.

Just an amazing draw... 2 of three spots came in with kickers!

I know D and I got a craps session in there as well- it sucked. Can't remember but I believe in for 5, out for 1k. We take a lunch break at Red 8- I'm up 90k!

Everything 8/10.

I grab a quick post lunch smoke, intending to take a nap after. Manage to hit yet again in 5 min of play.

Free goodies.

After a mostly refreshing nap, it's back to battle!

Can't remember exactly, but I think I broke even this session with this 8k hit. Otherwise they were all losers.

D and I try craps, again. It's better this time and I never see any huge numbers, but most rolls are decent and we've got our first craps winner in the books.

In for 5k.

Then, back to VP. It's almost time for our ride to Fountainbleau and dinner.

I feel like at this point I haven't seen 3 aces dealt in a while. I switched to an old school machine specifically to try and change things up, maybe wake the machine up, etc. Of course, I had to play 2$ credits. LOL making quad aces twice, but no kicker either time.

Part 2- Fountainbleau and beyond. Trip so far- +90k, 3 dealt quads, 5 five digit hits.

I wanna be like you when I grow up!

Can't imagine why you were so excited that pics of breakfast were forgotten. 😉 Nice hits and, as always, great storytelling, leon! Thank you!

Unbelievable! Being up that much I can’t see any way that I wouldn’t throw that all in a safe and lock in the win. (And probably go hookers and blow) One long game etc I know but man that’s an incredible win

I don't know how Leon can be comfortable sitting with a stable full of horseshoes up his ass, but all I can say is I'm here for it. Just amazing stuff.

I'm convinced that all your recent rungood is at the expense of my recent runbad. You're welcome!

Wheeeee!!! I don't think I could get up from those machines to take time to eat.

Leon, when you're playing do you see other players you begin to recognize by sight? Also, I wonder if for as big as you play if the next step up is a really big step. Lastly, I think in your goodies shot I see egg salad. I hope they have a fridge in your suite because that's not something I'd want to eat a few hours later.

by feel wrath m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58452809#post58452809)

Unbelievable! Being up that much I can’t see any way that I wouldn’t throw that all in a safe and lock in the win. (And probably go hookers and blow) One long game etc I know but man that’s an incredible win

Well, you hit all the nails on the head. Only way to make the win bigger is keep playing 😉 Luckily for my bankroll I have no interest in either hookers or blow. by Gadflier2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58453259#post58453259)

Leon, when you're playing do you see other players you begin to recognize by sight? Also, I wonder if for as big as you play if the next step up is a really big step. Lastly, I think in your goodies shot I see egg salad. I hope they have a fridge in your suite because that's not something I'd want to eat a few hours later.

I definitely recognize the other regulars at the Wynn. I hate 90% of them on sight 😀 I try not to be judgmental but when I see them my first thought is usually "oh, there's the guy who smokes the obnoxious cigars. There's the lady who always bitches and moans. There's the guy who offered me unsolicited advice to hold a pair over two pair bc 'you can't make quads from two pair (true story)'". Etc etc. I think my next step up is too big, yes. It'd either be UX for 2$ credits (biggest they have at the Wynn 10 lines), spin poker for 5$ credits, or routinely playing 40-50 lines at 1$. All of those are at least double my usual outlay, too swingy, or both. Don't see myself getting there any time soon... There may have been egg salad. They used to routinely put mayo on the sandwiches as well and they don't now (dislike- I think a good sandwich needs mayo). I basically never eat the goodies except when I'm starving. I've eaten several day-old sandwiches at the Wynn many times in the past, and have dodged the food poisoning bullet so far 😉

lol @ having only two hands with multipliers in this draw and smacking both of them with quads. run better lol.

Rest of Day 2

D and I grab our rolls to the Fountainbleau.

There's zero traffic and we have about an hr before dinner. We walk around and take in the sights.

Thoughts- pretty nice place. Very empty, and I think a lot of the shops/features aren't open yet. The current state of this casino exemplifies a dilemma I've always had with Vegas. I love the open floor plan and how nice it is inside. It feels empty (not in a good way) bc of lack of people. And, I'd hate it if there were more people. I've got a very narrow band for what is the sweet spot for me in Vegas, that's on me and not any one casino's fault but basically it means 99% of casinos vaguely annoy me on any given day. I personally want Fountainbleau to do well bc I want them to take some business from the Wynn. If we can clear out some people from the Wynn, and make things a little more competitive for them I figure that can only help me as a loyal Wynn customer. I have no plans to move to FB but I'd sure like to see some other people go 😀 Since we have time, we belly up to a 15$ craps table. I hate FB's chips- plastic, light, colors are off and they feel cheap as hell. FB needs to up their chip game.

After a nice little run it's time for dinner. In for 3, out for 5k and change. Happy to hit and run this place, wonder what kind of future offers I'm going to get. Mother Wolf

This place was described as Roman Italian cuisine. I can already say it's too big and too loud for my tastes- hope the food is good!

Overall, 7/10. The squash blossoms, and meat balls were 7/10. Pasta 8/10. Veal was 5/10, too salty and we literally had to get up and grab knifes for ourselves. Not pictured- the most monstrous pour of Booker's I've ever had. I ordered a double, pleased to see the price was a very reasonable 17$ per pour. They brought me probably a quadruple, no lie. I could not finish it- I even took the glass with me as we walked around after dinner, nursed it but ultimately threw it out (it was either that or I'd be throwing up later that night). Based on that ALONE, I'll be back to Mother Wolf!

A random Asian dumpling place I'll hit sometime in the future.

We grab a ride back to the Wynn. I'm about as happy as I've ever been being in Vegas- full from a good meal, inebriated but not overly so, and just crushing the machines. D goes to play dice- I'm pretty tired so I hit the machines instead.

These are the only hits I got over an hr. I've given way too much money back, by my count about 15k. I zapped one of the big tickets I had on me and had only the cash from craps at FB in my pocket. Didn't want to go back to the room to fetch a joint ticket for me and D. I decide to just feed in bills on my own, not partnered. I'm down about 20k post dinner when-

Of all the hits I had this trip, this one was probably the sweetest. Not much chance at the outset but I was paying close attention. First card comes in, I start getting excited just as the second card comes in, as it's flashing the huge amount at me I realize it must have come in perfect on the center line, then sure enough it shows me that it did... I have erased the (bad) post dinner loss and then some. I feel absolutely bullet proof in this moment.

I give back a couple K and call it a night. Cannot believe how well I am running this trip. Day 2 result- +67k Overall- +92k 3 dealt quads 6 five digits hits

Day 3 coming soon...

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58455321#post58455321)

These are the only hits I got over an hr. I've given way too much money back, by my count about 15k. I zapped one of the big tickets I had on me and had only the cash from craps at FB in my pocket. Didn't want to go back to the room to fetch a joint ticket for me and D. I decide to just feed in bills on my own, not partnered. I'm down about 20k post dinner when-

So how do you work this out in your partnership share? It seems kind of questionable even if you have perfect records since you're playing on your own then deciding right now we're not partnered when I hit this $24k so the partnership is still "down." And the cash from FB was "partnered" though money is fungible. Or maybe D said he was out for the day and agreed to pause partnership, but it seems like he was off playing craps or something when you went on your own. It doesn't really matter, but it just seems odd since you seem pretty meticulous about tracking play and partnering with friends and family. I'd assume you just add everything and split at the end, not on again off again. Edit to Add: Yes, I'm jelly. If I give you $100 will you run it up for me?

Jesus! Leon, what info about wins and losses are you giving your wife during the middle of a trip and then after? (And how ‘good’ is she in general around wins and losses and variance etc?) Im sure she knows the overall volume and stakes and swings etc given she’s often there with you, but are you reporting during a day like then when you’re up a chunk or down a chunk and do you manage the info at all?

by SurpriseBetsX m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58455503#post58455503)

So how do you work this out in your partnership share? It seems kind of questionable even if you have perfect records since you're playing on your own then deciding right now we're not partnered when I hit this $24k so the partnership is still "down." And the cash from FB was "partnered" though money is fungible. Or maybe D said he was out for the day and agreed to pause partne... See full post

It was pretty easy, every time we partnered for VP I'd feed in 10k in bills. All the tickets we generated from that (or busted) were partnered. We didn't partner at FB and for craps we always settled up the results after. So in this case all I needed to do was put this ticket in a separate spot and we were good. Additionally, every iteration we partnered we agreed beforehand so the accounting was very clear. I'll have a pic coming in the next installment where all the tickets will be laid out and it'll be pretty easy to see. by feel wrath m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58455555#post58455555)

Jesus!Leon, what info about wins and losses are you giving your wife during the middle of a trip and then after? (And how ‘good’ is she in general around wins and losses and variance etc?)Im sure she knows the overall volume and stakes and swings etc given she’s often there with you, but are you reporting during a day like then when you’re up a chunk or down a chunk and do you... See full post

I tell her everything, often way more detail than she cares about. Usually she doesn't even ask/doesn't care- I'll tell her when I'm particularly excited/sad. D and I had a long conversation this trip about this (he can't be nearly so honest with his wife) and I've said it before in this thread- I'm lucky bc my wife has been with me since my 500$ initial roll on Paradise poker. She's been through all the highs, lows and played online herself. Of course I've put in the work too to educate/convince her that I wasn't just some crazy idiot who would destroy us financially. Basically she got to see all the work put in as the poker bankroll grew, saw me unwilling to bet 5$ at BJ bc it was "neg EV", reap the benefits of a hard-earned poker roll, and then organically live through all the (increasing) highs and lows since then. Trust me, there was a day when if I had one black chip on me it was an amazing sight. Then there was the first time I had to force her to bet 1k on one hand of blackjack LOL. First time I showed her a 5k chip. First time I hit a 5 digit hit on VP. First time I lost 10k, 20k, 30k, etc etc. You name it, she's been there so there's no need to hide anything. She actually doesn't care as much as me lol.

She know the realism of just how ridiculous of a run you've been? It's not just "he's been lucky"

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58455593#post58455593)

It was pretty easy, every time we partnered for VP I'd feed in 10k in bills. All the tickets we generated from that (or busted) were partnered. We didn't partner at FB and for craps we always settled up the results after. So in this case all I needed to do was put this ticket in a separate spot and we were good. Additionally, every iteration we partnered we agreed beforehand so... See full post

Leon you are lucky in that sense, your wife seems to understand gambling and the ups and downs. I met my wife when I was playing poker professionally full time, and back then we obviously had separate finances. It went extremely well for 3 years (bought an apartment from winnings at 23 for example), then I quit shortly after when my first kid was born and I moved into the poker industry. Fast forward 15 years. She is obviously extremely happy when things go my way and I bring her stuff from Vegas. Like the last trip, a new iPhone, clothes, perfume, I paid off my son’s dentist appointment in full from winnings (damn braces are expensive…). Then a week or so later was out with some friends, went to the casino and lost maybe $500. She was visibly pissed off for a day, she cannot understand how someone can lose that kind of money and be ok with it. Even though it has no implications on our financial situation she is still upset every time I lose, despite it being a completely separate bankroll. She’s never ever gambled or played anything so makes sense in some way, but still.

by punkass m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58455900#post58455900)

She know the realism of just how ridiculous of a run you've been? It's not just "he's been lucky"

Honestly I don't think she quite gets how ridiculous the run has been from a statistical point of view. She knows I've been lucky and understands expectation, sample size etc but I doubt she's considered the sun run as much and as deeply as I have. by MuckPls m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58457860#post58457860)

Leon you are lucky in that sense, your wife seems to understand gambling and the ups and downs. I met my wife when I was playing poker professionally full time, and back then we obviously had separate finances. It went extremely well for 3 years (bought an apartment from winnings at 23 for example), then I quit shortly after when my first kid was born and I moved into the poker... See full post

I am lucky for sure with my wife. I actually don't get people like your wife, in the sense that I feel like people should break down broadly into a few categories- gambles themselves, doesn't gamble but is ok with it, and doesn't gamble and is NOT ok with it. The "I'm ok with it as long as you win" obv exists, but as far as I'm concerned it's not a logically consistent viewpoint. I'd be like, "so you're ok with pocketing some of the winnings, but you're not going to cover the loss?". In my mind, it's kind of like those people who give you props when you make a big score, but when you lose a fraction they're like "why didn't you stop at some earlier point?". Right, that's real easy to say in hindsight. I didn't hear anyone telling me to stop at 1k when I went on to win 10k... At least you get to continue to come to Vegas!

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58455321#post58455321)

Since we have time, we belly up to a 15$ craps table. I hate FB's chips- plastic, light, colors are off and they feel cheap as hell. FB needs to up their chip game. After a nice little run it's time for dinner. In for 3, out for 5k and change. Happy to hit and run this place, wonder what kind of future offers I'm going to get.... See full post

What kind of bets did you make for that sort of win? Overall, 7/10. The squash blossoms, and meat balls were 7/10. Pasta 8/10. Veal was 5/10, too salty and we literally had to get up and grab knifes for ourselves. Not pictured- the most monstrous pour of Booker's I've ever had. I ordered a double, pleased to see the price was a very reasonable 17$ per pour. They brought me probably a quadruple, no lie. I could not finish it- I even took the glass with me as we walked around after dinner, nursed it but ultimately threw it out (it was either that or I'd be throwing up later that night). Based on that ALONE, I'll be back to Mother Wolf!

Too bad you didn't have your little flask with you.

by pig4bill m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58460210#post58460210)

What kind of bets did you make for that sort of win?

I think I did 600$ each roll, 150$ on all the even numbers.

Day 3 Despite taking a gummy, I wake up super early again. I'm not getting the sleep I had hoped for this trip 😡 I gather up all the money I have on me and snap a pic, acutely aware this may be my height of the trip. I hope not, obv, but I'm being realistic.

Just over165k, 70k is mine. For Surprise, you can see all the tickets I have. Each of those started life as 10k joint venture with me and D save for the one I started on my own, makes the accounting super easy.

Sphere, bring me more luck!

I feed in a big ticket and get to work.

I'm not doing well at this point which of course means I'll get "dealt" regular quads on the redraw.

I completely annihilate an 18k ticket. I'm down 18k for the AM. 18K!!!!! I decide to use up my free credit. As always, I was really looking forward to keeping my free credit until the last day, and as always I can't avoid a massive downswing that makes me do anything to stop losing "real" money.

Start.

End. Pretty crappy, < 75% payback.

I kill that money pretty fast too and head back up to the room to grab another ticket. It's 6:30am and I've dusted off 18k (more actually) in a little over an hr. As far as I can tell, D is still asleep and we don't have breakfast for almost 2 hrs! I grab the 21k ticket and head back downstairs, the first glimmer of fear starting to enter my mind... Let's put AM session 2 this way. I have zero pics. ZERO. I didn't even play super big, but by the time breakfast rolls around I am stuck THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND for the AM. ShTTT@! I meet D at Tableau and give him the bad news.

Breakfast quiche, pretty damn good actually. I'll definitely be getting more of this in the future.

After breakfast, D and I hit the craps table, and of course that sucks too. We decide to go to the Cosmo and put some action in on his card there. It takes us about 10 min to get to the Cosmo with no traffic. The place itself is kind of dead (11am on a Friday) and I like it this way. We play for a few hrs and it's a cold session too. We fed in 5k at a time and had our shots, but the session was stereotypic in how it played out. You know you're running cold when you draw at 4 to a royal or trip aces 90 ways and you blank EVERY SPOT. So we went 0/180 on the biggest draws we had during the session. Ultimately we lost 10k there too and I head back to the Wynn stuck 50k for the day!! Once back at the Wynn, I try VP again, and it still sucks. Stuck 55k for the day. I have to do something to stop this bleeding. I head upstairs for a nap. Once that's done, I connect with D and we continue trying desperately to cling to our win.

All of these pics are from around 3pm. Last one before was from breakfast. That's a LONG time to run cold.

I think we basically spent the afternoon getting a little back from VP courtesy of those hits above, and giving some back slowly at craps. By the time dinner rolled around, we were probably still stuck about 50k for the day. SW Gotta light some of this comp money on fire and claw back anything we can from the Wynn!

We got a mix of Kobe rib cap and American Wagyu. Everything was at least 8/10, this was one of my better SW experiences. The American Wagyu was just as if not better than the Kobe- for the price difference, the American was clearly superior. Two different cuts of meat obv, but the American Wagyu was more flavorful and about 30% as expensive LOL.

We're seeing Leanne Morgan (comedy show) at 8pm and have a little time to kill. I stick a ticket in the UX machine and get a nice hit, but not what we're looking for given how we're bleeding like stuck pigs today.

Leanne Morgan

As I mentioned, I knew nothing about her when I got these tickets. Other than the fact it's comedy, I'm going in completely unaware and with an open mind.

The show was... ok. She's basically a Southern grandmother. Her humor was mostly clean, whereas I'm more of a Chris Rock/George Carlin back in the day kind of guy. I like some mean-spiritedness in my comedy (all things worth mocking are inherently funny in some way, of course). Most of her act made me smile but very few things were LOL funny- but I know I was in the minority of the audience. She obv has quite a following as the theater was packed and I heard a lot of Southern accents in the audience- I suspect a lot of people made the trip specifically to see her. D agrees with me- we're glad we went, it killed a bit of time, and we wouldn't see her again (or have gone in the first place if we knew what we were getting). OK, so where were we? Oh yes. The show got out around 10pm. D is going to give craps a try. I'm mentally crushed from the day but also really would like to end on a high note. Going to bed at 10 on a Friday night in Vegas seems kind of stupid. So I head back to VP, telling myself I've got a 5k stop loss for this session. Which, I promptly lose in about 10 min. Semi-tilted now, I keep going but am much more firm about the new stop loss. I get to play for a bit, but under the circumstances all this is doing is killing my sleep. I'm actually happy when I finally hit my new stop loss bc it means I can get up and go to bed. What an awful, awful, awful day. I reflect on the fact that being here an extra day got me basically 90k ahead before what was supposed to be the start, and yet I'm now "only" up 30k. I lost over 40k in a few hrs today. That 30k is nothing- I could book a LOSS this trip if things continue. So ridiculous. This game. The highs. The lows. Being upstuck really sucks hard. Day 3 result- -60k Overall- +32k

Day 4 coming soon...

JFC. Yeah, it's so insane the difference in mental state if you broke even on first two days then won 32k on day 3, vs the way it played out, even though both have you up 32k for the trip.

Jeez, it's like you were going into day three of the WSOP main as the huge chip leader, then you proceed to lose every flip and can't hit a single draw, leaving you still nicely above the average stack going into day four, but mentally feeling like you're doomed. If I were in your shoes I'd probably be too scared to put a nickel in a machine after that, but thankfully your combination of degen and optimism means you were back at it. Here's hoping for a sinusoidal upswing, or, failing that, a break even day.

Is 60k your record 1 day loss?

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58460620#post58460620)

I think I did 600$ each roll, 150$ on all the even numbers.

Yeoww, so if you lose you can only play 5 rolls?

Holy runbad, hope this one has a happy ending!

by feel wrath m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58461614#post58461614)

Is 60k your record 1 day loss?

Yes, for sure. I had a day in Dec 2021 or Jan 2022, can't remember but my bankroll was at its previous height. Took a 60k ticket to the local and somehow managed to zap 50k. That one still feels way worse bc my roll is far bigger now than then, and I was at the local and could always just have gone home (but didn't). In Vegas, there to play... there's no escaping it. If I run badly I run badly, but it's not like I'm going to stop. by pig4bill m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58462105#post58462105)

Yeoww, so if you lose you can only play 5 rolls?

Yeah but I was just killing time before dinner. I actually tend to buy in pretty short at the craps table relative to my unit- 3-5k for minimum 600, up to 900$ per roll. My approach to dice has changed a lot over the years- I'm looking for heat and fun. Longevity will come if/when it's good. If not just kill me quick so I can get back to the VP machines. Plus the way I bet is pretty low variance, 5-6 rolls is plenty for the table to announce itself. If I get 4-5 instaouts where I don't pick up a dime I was dead anyways, at least I didn't spend 2 hrs bleeding to death and getting more frustrated. And if it starts well... then we're off to the races AND I've got lots of future bets paid for. I've got a roll coming up soon in this next installment that exemplifies that.

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58463133#post58463133)

I've got a roll coming up soon in this next installment that exemplifies that.

Nice teaser. Anxiously awaiting the next installment, I hope the VP worm turns too.

Day 4 Couldn't sleep in, again. I think I've firmly established the benefits of that gummy back in Dec was a one time thing. I know given the debacle of yesterday that I absolutely MUST delay play as long as possible. Today is make or break. If it's bad like yesterday, we're booking a loss from what was a 92k winner and I will be absolutely sick. Laying in bed, I kind of map out my strategy for the next two days. We've got another comedy show tonight but otherwise not much on the agenda. I figure I'll need 10k min tomorrow. I'd REALLY like to go home with at least a 10k win as well. So, we're looking at 10k today, 10k tomorrow. There is ZERO chance 10k is enough today if it's bad. I suppose I could always play more craps... I could even partner with D and I don't play VP or craps myself- that'll stretch things out.

Sphere- you didn't bring me luck yesterday!

I grab the 31k ticket and slow things way down. Start at old school, and play slowly, and less lines on the multiline machine. I'm in survival mode, no doubt about it. I'd really like to play 10 line UX or spin, but I just can't handle the variance if it's still cold.

With these hits, I book a small loss. I decide to play craps on my own, something we haven't done this trip. I text D on the way, tell him I'm about to start at a near-empty table and if he's awake to come join me. Turns out, he is awake and will meet me "soon". I get the dream start I'm looking for- I'm rolling, and I'm hitting numbers. I think I got the 10 up to 1k from 150$ to start, 4 got to 500 and 6 and 8 to 1200 each. Never hit a 4 digit number but the way I play I managed to pick up quite a bit of chips on the way there. D even managed to get in the game, bought in and didn't end the roll. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to make out nearly as well as I seven'd out soon after. We played a few more rolls after that, it was never awful but nothing approaching my first roll. We stop for breakfast, I've at least doubled my buy in (pic coming), and D has booked a very small loss. We head to the buffet.

In for 5k...

It's amazing what even a small win can do to set your mind right. D and I talked a bunch over breakfast, the reality is I'm still up for the trip, I'm still in the middle of a ridiculous multi-year run that few people would ever get a taste of... what the hell am I so afraid of? Let's just have some fun and not be scared money sitting on a near-500k bankroll. I mean, the dude is out of work, here playing with a fraction of the roll I've got, plus he's doing relatively worse bc cold craps hurts him more than me... he's right. With a refreshed attitude, we map out our new strategy. We're going to partner in craps and let him drive the chips. He'd like to bet 880$ inside, and his usual way is hit one number and regress to an amount that is "paid for" with the previous hit and get all the numbers. So with a 200$ 5 or 9 or 240 6 or 8 as an example, one hit pays 280 and he can regress to 320$ across- the roll is basically paid for. The only thing we're afraid of is an insta-out (and those will kill us dead regardless of how we place). His style SHOULD be low variance and gives him the mental freedom to press aggressively after the roll is paid for- it's just that he's gotten more than his fair share of insta-outs this trip. We find a table and get to work. Pretty soon after we start I get bored so we start alternating driving the chips. I know how he bets, I should be able to do this... it's never a bad table, we get to play for 2 hrs but unfortunately it's never good either. We book a very small loss, so small I can't even remember. For 2 hrs of play, that's worth it. It's after lunch when we head back to the machines. We head to multiline, intending to get D more tier credits. That doesn't last long as we get positively abused by the hi limit machine, AGAIN. This machine has been so cold this trip overall- I'm up on UX and spin, and just giving it away on this machine. I know we lost about 10k or more here, so I'm down for the day again, I want to say about 10k. We head to UX- F it, let's play 10 lines.

***!!! Kissing your sister hand, no multipliers to boot.

OF COURSE I hit regular quads three times with no multipliers. I swear, when you run badly it's like the machine knows and just rubs salt in the wound...

We've clearly stepped down to 5 lines, somewhere in between turning the ticket from 24k to 16k...

So D and I get to draw at premium trips many times, AFTER we step down to 5 lines of course. We blank them all and it's a very frustrating experience. I also have started closing my eyes after we get dealt a pat straight, flush, etc just to increase the potential excitement of the next hand. If the machine makes that noise that says "jacks or better", at least we've got a good start, and I can open my eyes and wait to be surprised. So we get dealt a full house. 12x multipliers everywhere. I close my eyes for the next hand and hit deal. Hear the "bwa-wong" noise of 12x multipliers activating. Hear the "chwee-weep" noise of at least jacks or better dealt. That's good. As I open my eyes, I hear D go "oh whoa. Here we go!". What do we see? Trip 2s!!! OK, this could be the one. Nothing to get to worked up over yet though, after all, we only have 5 shots at it and we're drawing like ****. D and I hype ourselves up a bit, bring ourselves back to earth a bit, hype up a bit... meh F it hit draw.

HELLZ YES! What a save!

D and I bask in that glory for a long time. Other than the dealt royal we got at the local recently, D has never been present for a big hand, and definitely not at UX. We're up for the day again and, knock on wood, I think we're going to survive this trip. We give a little back at UX, then D decides he wants to play more craps. We partner again so he can play his 880$ inside, I move to hi limit AGAIN. I'm nothing if not stubborn. Sit at the multiline machine, and FINALLY get dealt quads number 5 of the trip! Spoiler Show

Man. So meh.

I keep going. D comes back really fast. Uh oh. He tells me EVERY roll he played was an insta-out. Lost almost 5k in about 30 min. Ugh. So he sits with me as the machine finally wakes up.

We played all the way until dinner, this was either break even or small winner but given how awful things have been this was a good session for sure. I believe we're up 10k for the day now? Wing Lei Part of the reason I picked this place is bc I had a good experience last time, part of the reason is I know D has never been.

With the exception of the shrimp (3/10), everything else was at least 7-8/10. The shrimp were really disappointing- no flavor and some spice they put in (allspice?) just dominated anything else. So shrimp-textured allspice with some chili. No thanks.

From dinner, D and I head straight to the comedy show. Heather Mcmahan, second blonde Southerner of the trip!

This show was quite different than last night's. Comedy much more raunchy, much more my style. D and I enjoyed it a lot more. And, it was less crowded on a Sat than last night's comedian, which is part of what made me say LeAnn Morgan must have a following that specifically came out for her. I'd see Heather Mcmahan again for sure.

D and I then get some Sat night gaming in. Can I please have a great last night for once? I feel like it's been ages since I had an amazing Sat night... ... not to be. It's cold, I dump back 10k in generally frustrating fashion and finish the day basically even, which I suppose on the heels of Friday is a win in and of itself. I'm definitely going to survive tomorrow at least- I can play 20k and still come out with a net 10k win if it comes to it.

Day 4 result- even. Overall- +32k Dealt quads- 5 5 digit hits- 7

Day 5 coming soon...

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58463213#post58463213)

OK, this could be the one. Nothing to get to worked up over yet though, after all, we only have 5 shots at it and we're drawing like ****. D and I hype ourselves up a bit, bring ourselves back to earth a bit, hype up a bit... meh F it hit draw. HELLZ YES! What a save!... See full post

Multipliers is the funnest.

Variance can be a bitch..

So since you were even for the day, I take it if you'd been playing larger or more lines for the entire day, you'd still have been even, as the added $$ you'd have received for the 24K hit would've been offset by higher losses in other situations? Or to put it another way, did you vary your play at certain intervals such that you might have done better or worse in view of what would've been a much larger than 24k hit?

by Rizzeedizzee m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58464190#post58464190)

So since you were even for the day, I take it if you'd been playing larger or more lines for the entire day, you'd still have been even, as the added $$ you'd have received for the 24K hit would've been offset by higher losses in other situations? Or to put it another way, did you vary your play at certain intervals such that you might have done better or worse in view of what... See full post

I don't think you can say anything had I played different. Maybe I hit bigger stuff. Maybe I just dump more money. Even that 24k wouldn't have been double had I been playing 10 lines instead of 5. Suppose I got dealt trip 2s 10 lines, 12x multipliers everywhere. Even in that exact case, I'm still a dog to draw quads with a kicker, let alone twice. So you could argue I did better by playing smaller (since my bet was half as much but still got pretty much the best result I could hope for). I think the only thing that could be said in general about playing bigger/smaller is if I play twice as big I figure to lose twice as much. It's the only math that makes sense.

Day 5

I wake up around 6am, the latest I've slept in this whole trip. I'm ready to play and survive this day!

You've failed me the last two days Sphere. Do better.

I sit at the old school machine, and immediately start getting the draws which have been so sorely lacking at the hi limit multiline machine.

Just a great rate of conversion. I'm a little upset that I'm only starting to really hit with a high frequency again at "regular" 10 lines, but obv that's better than continuing to miss...

D and I break for another room service breakfast. Sorry, forgot pics. After, we make a quick stop at the spin poker machine.

We've basically gotten D the 20k ish tier credits he was looking for this trip. Also, we're up almost 10k for the day! We decide to play crapless craps and change it up. We really have to figure out how we're going to bet here, bc the limits are 50$ and we've never done this before. I know I want all the outside numbers- 2,3,4,10,11 and 12. That's the fun of the game and where the value's at. I don't want to shoot bc that's how they get you on crapless. D wants the same, but he ALSO wants to do his usual inside numbers/regress and press hard. There's just no way we can do all of that each roll- we'd be betting a min of over 1k each roll and a few insta-outs will kill us dead. BUT- if we can dodge the instaouts... this could be fun. BUT- if one of us has a hot roll the other almost certainly won't. We decide to both buy in 5k. I'll get the outsides 100 each. D will do his thing on the insides. We'll split everything 50/50. So really all we did was partner for a larger amount and get all the numbers, but we're both driving chips and able to be happy even when "other numbers" hit. D starts shooting. Of course he establishes a point of 2 😡. Hits a couple of numbers, then hits then 2! My side of the roll is instantly covered. His roll is decent for the outsides and at least he gets his money back on the inside numbers. Next roll, basically the same result. I'm starting to chip up. After a while, I decide to shoot, bc with the shared buy in what difference does it make who eats the disadvantage on the line? I have a MONSTER outside roll. I know I hit at least 3 2s and 12s, a bunch of 11s and 4s and 10s. D made a little money this roll, and I left way too much out there, of course, but man... it was a ton of fun. I started with 100 each on all of the outsides and got them all up to 300-350 by the time the roll was done- so I left basically 2k out there. We color up after that roll bc it's just not going to be any more fun than that in all likelihood. In for 10k, out for-

We split everything right down the middle. D wants to play regular craps for his last hurrah- I partner with him and head back to the machines up 12k? for the day.

Breakeven session for UX. I head to hi limit.

I'm playing super fast and at least the machine is letting me play. As the minutes tick by, I realize that we're going to make it to the finish line! Then, dealt quads #5 of the trip! I know I said #5 earlier in this TR, I think my count was off. That was 4, this one is 5. Spoiler Show

I mean, we'll take it, but...

Great result here.

I'm just smashing smashing smashing, clock keeps ticking... and expires. That was basically a break even session as well. Time to settle up! I'm up almost 40k. Not as much as I thought, but with all the cash in/out with me and D's partnership I'm not surprised my count is off a bit. I owe him almost 8k. We settle up, and I finish the trip a 31k winner. Actually got a great last day for once. D unfortunately posts a 2k loss, it's just not possible for him to win given how cold craps was overall. I console him by telling him he was looking at a 10k loss were it not for VP. We grab our ride to the airport; small delay but otherwise make it home ok. And with that, another Vegas trip is in the books!

Day 5 result- +8k Overall- 31k Dealt quads- 5, one premium 5 digit hits- 7

Afterthoughts- had fun partnering with D and we were able to grind him points at Wynn and Cosmo. He also grabbed a bottle of wine for his wife using comp, and I took home at least 30oz of bourbon so we really milked them this time. For my part, my sun run definitely continues- even though I gave so much back on Day 3 and set a record for a one day loss, the reality is I was up so much that I was still able to book what for me is a sizable Vegas win. I think back to all the times I just wanted to break even and remind myself, any win is a good win, and a 31k win is BIG. Since I've been back I haven't been to the local. Went yesterday- it was ok, then it sucked. Gave back 15k and hit the ATM bc I wasn't done. They almost felted me when I hit a double royal on spin which brought me back 8k. Then, got dealt quads...

OK!!!! Here we F'ing go!

Completely worried and thinking about the last time this machine hit me with dealt aces in this exact situation, and then skunked me on kickers, I fire up the video and hit draw. COMEONCOMEONCOMEON Result-

Spoiler Show

BOOM. 8 out of 15 kickers. That center line kicker would have been 7 lines on its own, but we won't think about that right? ARGH

Completely erased my earlier loss and I left yesterday a 25k winner. Thanks for reading!

Great trip report and write up again Leon. Thank you and well done

Yes, thanks again for sharing. Congratulations on a great trip!

Nice save!

Great report, felt your highs and lows. Enjoyed reading online the full menu at the SW so much that Yelp asked me if I wanted to post my own review. I think you should try some new items, I'll make you a list. Until next trip.

Only nickles and only 3 lines, so obviously nothing compared to Leon’s monster hits, but $3,200 on a $1.50 bet was still pretty nice yesterday at my local. It automatically held the draw, since it was the maximum possible payoff..

BTW, Ultimate X Bonus Streak is the crack cocaine of all Video Poker games..

BINK!

by Stu Ungar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476524#post58476524)

Only nickles and only 3 lines, so obviously nothing compared to Leon’s monster hits, but $3,200 on a $1.50 bet was still pretty nice yesterday at my local. It automatically held the draw, since it was the maximum possible payoff..BTW, Ultimate X Bonus Streak is the crack cocaine of all Video Poker games..... See full post

For your unit this IS a monster. Nice hit man! Bigger than anything unit-wise I've ever hit at the Wynn.

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58477089#post58477089)

For your unit this IS a monster. Nice hit man! Bigger than anything unit-wise I've ever hit at the Wynn.

Thanks, Leon. First time I ever drew the highest payout in a video poker game. When the machine clicked and auto-held the hand it took me a few seconds to realize what happened lol..

Dont spend it all on horses and coke... 😉

Hit the local with D today. It was never bad and we spent most of the day mashing buttons at the 50c credit level (any pic at 25c represents us scaling back due to run bad). First- dealt quads, 80 lines and 50c credits!

Spoiler Show

Definitely not a bad hit, but I'm spoiled by premiums.

We gave a lot back, then hit dealt premiums!

Forgot to take a before pic. Exactly at expectation, which ended up being a "great" result bc I think we hit one kicker in the first 20 lines!

Ultimately, we ended up winning over 30k and my 90% portion was just under 30. A good day for sure.

Nice thread. That $200,000 win was insane! I have a question (which might have been asked before): What is the biggest possible jackpot you could win on the machines/limits you usually play? Another question: Do you ever play VP with a progressive jackpot? Like, on machines that are potentially +EV if someone "builds up" the jackpot and then leaves? Disclaimer: I never play slots or VP, so I don't know much about them. But after reading this thread, I think I more or less understand how VP works now.

by Sheep86 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58492592#post58492592)

Nice thread. That $200,000 win was insane!I have a question (which might have been asked before): What is the biggest possible jackpot you could win on the machines/limits you usually play?Another question: Do you ever play VP with a progressive jackpot? Like, on machines that are potentially +EV if someone "builds up" the jackpot and then leaves?Disclaimer: I never play slots ... See full post

Biggest possible is basically 200k. Even that is "bigger" than I normally play. On Ultimate X technically playing 10 lines, 1$ credit if I hit the unicorn (dealt full house followed by dealt royal or 4AWAK) that'd be 480k, but it's probably never going to happen. My norm is 100-150$ per push now. If it's not a carnival game that translates to 40k for each 50$ bet max. So effectively most times I'm topped out at 80-120k max possible win. When I'm running well I take shots but they're generally never bigger than 250$ a push. I don't play progressives bc the only ones at the Wynn are single line which I find boring as hell. I suppose if I found a great progressive that was obv +EV I'd give it a shot but I've never seen that at the Wynn. The base progressive game there is 9/5 TDB which is pretty crappy. Most VP players at the Wynn are clueless and will play on the machine way before EV would make it a good play, so in turn they hit the progressive before it ever really gets up there. I've never seen a progressive at the Wynn even close to +EV.

Massive Wynn, Kentucky, Wynn TR

This is gonna be a long one. My and B's wife got us a bourbon trip to Kentucky for Xmas. We went to that last week. Seperately, I always knew I was coming to Vegas the following weekend for March Madness. When I checked out the flights to Kentucky, there were no good flights leaving from SD. Much easier to get an early AM flight from Vegas... yeah, let's do that. So, the plan was- overnight stay in Vegas 3/14. Head to Kentucky 3/15-3/18, then back to SD. Back to Vegas 3/21-3/24. For the real Vegas trip, D and I both received invites to some Hot Pot dinner and drawing- only 8 winners, 1st is 25k and we don't expect much but hey, it's a shot. Vegas, part 1

Only bringing 30k with me- I hate being short in Vegas and 30k should be way more than enough money, but you never know...

SW rebooked all flights I had leaving at my usual late AM time. My guess is they got rid of that slot. We're at the Wynn at 10 am. Thus, coffee and not bourbon.

We dump 10k in UX before calling it quits. Not a good start. Move to spin poker!

Bang! That all important center line!

That all important center spot.

Very long gap between that last pic and this next one, which obv means we gave a lot back. I think we were stuck about 5k for the trip at this point?

Twice, no kicker either time.

Not sure where we were here either, but I think ultimately we pissed all of that away. Head upstairs to change for dinner at Mizumi teppanyaki down 10k?

Mizumi

They changed their teppanyaki menu around. Now it's basically a set menu, with appetizers and dessert. The annoying thing is, there's no way to combine surf and turf items anymore. B and I both go with the steak.

As usual, a pretty solid meal, 8/10. B and I head back to get some turbo play in, we've got to go to bed pretty early to catch a 7am flight tomorrow.

We hit up UX and again and it's so cold. We haven't hit one quality trip draw all trip. After dumping back another 10k, we head back to spin. Can't believe I'm down 20k in half a day.

That's helpful!

So helpful!

Argh! Hit the draw, but zero kickers.

It's time to use up my free play. 2k free play for a < 24hr trip is nice.

Start.

End, 100% payback.

And... that's it. Leg one, end up making a recovery and I'm down 13k for the trip. Not great but I can live with that.

Result- -13k 5 digit hits- 1 Next installment- Kentucky Bourbon trip!

Looking forward to a TR of the bourbon trip. Wish I'd known in advance, would've reminded you of the total solar eclipse in a couple weeks. Might have been fun to be there during that event, if it crosses over the bourbon part of Kentucky.

I like that there's a counter for 5 digits hits. Just when you think this thread might be getting boring...

I'm looking forward to the Bourbon trip report also! And hope you have better luck on second leg of Vegas!

Def curious to see what you find in the wild in KY. I'll likely never try any of the allocated stuff because I'm too cheap 😀

KY/Bourbon TR part 1

OK readers, I think this is a bit of a spoiler but it should still be ok. Just got back from the second leg of Vegas and I am just wiped, physically and emotionally. I went thru the highest of highs and the lowest of lows and I hope that I can make this part of the write up worth reading. If not, that's why... the good news is THAT section of the TR should be packed with details. B and I need to wake up at 4:30am to get food, get ready and make it to the airport on time. Since there's zero chance of me gambling, somehow my body knows that and would have been able to sleep in. That alarm was PAINFUL. Didn't get a pic of standard room service, airport is quiet and soon we're on our way to Chicago. We connect from there to Lexington. Agenda- Day 1- get into Lexington late afternoon, check into hotel, dinner and drinking after Day 2- tour James Pepper and Buffalo Trace distilleries, check out Lexington, drinking. Day 3- head to Louisville, check into Bed and Breakfast, tour Stitzel-Weller distillery, check out Louisville, drinking Day 4- head back to SD

Random view from a food place at Chicago O Hare. Haven't been in this airport in years. It's even more of a zoo than I remember.

Coming in to Lexington. Definitely different than landing in Vegas or SD, that's for sure.

We grab our rental car and drive to the hotel. It's actually raining and cold here. I had planned on cold, not on rain. Ugh this is going to make walking around annoying. Also, it's Saint Paddy's Day weekend and apparently the main street our hotel is on will be closed for a parade etc. Getting around is going to be a little tougher now. I honestly had no idea it was this weekend when I booked the trip, I clearly don't care about that kind of thing 😀

Hotel is functional and fine. It ain't the Wynn, but then again it doesn't cost nearly as much either... I like the rubber duck touch 😀

We decide to walk around pre-dinner. We check out the downtown area right by our hotel. The planned dinner is several blocks away, the Bluegrass Tavern with "the largest bourbon selection in KY" is one block away- nice. We swing in there. Photo dump coming!

B and I start off with Stagg Jr at a very reasonable price, at least for what we're used to. Then, we wise up and decide to lean on the bartender for new recommendations. I tell him I'm a fan of barrel strength, my go tos, my price cap and he makes some picks. All of them were good, let's start there. I was wondering why he picked the Blanton's and joked with him about regular Blanton's being "Blandon's". He completely agrees but says this cask strength release was really good. It was, not overly so for me but at least it tasted like bourbon instead of water 😀 I guess I just don't get the hype with Blanton's. I know the bottle's cool and I know I definitely have a lot to learn about bourbon, but man... it seems like the only people who buy Blanton's are bros/people who believe the hype. I swear, everywhere we go people are trying to push Blanton's at 2x the price of every other bourbon on us, esp Vegas where most restaurants their bourbon list is basic at best, but of course you can have Blanton's at 50$ a pour sir! OK, rant over. All the other picks were pretty good but at this point I'm 3 sheets to the wind 😀 We decide to walk to dinner and see if they can get us in early.

If you know, you know...

We end up walking the wrong way and uber to the restaurant. It's called Carson's food and drink. Upscale American. I'm starving and get a shrimp stew appetizer which comes with at least 10 full size shrimp and a huge baguette. We were so hungry I forgot to take a pic. Main course-

SO MUCH FOOD.

Total bill for the two of us- 50$! LOL I could get used to these prices. I think I only ate half of my main course. After dinner, we decide to just head back to Bluegrass Tavern- it's still drizzling and it's a block from the hotel. We ask the bartender to hit us with more recs.

I'm not a huge fan of rye but the Michter's was ok. EJ, meh. I think it's actually too old and the flavor profile wasn't for me.

We crash, early for East coast time but way late for us on a full day of travel, sleep deprivation, and drinking. Day 2

Sleep in, about 10hrs total. We grab breakfast at the hotel restaurant.

LOL you know you're in Kentucky when the place you're grabbing breakfast has a bourbon display. I actually forgot to grab pics of my food- biscuit eggs benedict which was a solid 8/10.

We leisurely make our way over to the James Pepper distillery.

Every distillery we visited this trip was different in its own way which was cool. We learned new things each time, and got to see different aspects so there was never one we visited where we felt, "meh. Take it or leave it". I've never drank Pepper but have heard the name, they are actually a craft distillery and have relatively small output. They were the only ones that let us near the fermentation tanks 😀

These pictures need a bit more explaining. The long column is the main distilling column. "Low wine" is the product of the first step, it's clear but tastes horrible and is basically moonshine. You'd get poisoned if you drank it. Then, they distill again, and the "high wine" is drinkable, non-toxic moonshine. High wine is what gets aged in the barrels.

They let us sample the high wine and warned people that if they didn't like it they could just dump it on the floor. What does it say about me and B that we drank it and said, "that's actually not bad. I could just sit around and drink this". LOL Tour over, they started the tasting. We got to try their regular bourbon, the rye, and their "special blend". The regular bourbon was good enough that I decided to get a bottle. Glad we got to taste the "special blend"- it wasn't good and was the most expensive. I might have purchased it without otherwise knowing... Interesting things I learned on this tour-

• James Pepper was a huge player in bourbon back in the day. The wife was the one with business savvy, she saved the business multiple times
• Pepper "created" the Old Fashioned, his favorite drink. The bartender at the Waldorf in NY actually came up with it but it was basically Pepper's drink and he made it famous
• the business changed hands multiple times, and "mysteriously" burned down when the bourbon market was gone either during Prohibition or in the 80s/90s. Arson/insurance fraud, anyone?
• the distillery only recently reopened (2007?), principal owner/investor wanted to rebuild/improve this part of Lexington and thus there are multiple new restaurants, distilleries, breweries, etc. B and I grab an utterly forgettable lunch at one of the places next door, head back to the hotel to recharge, then drink to Frankfort for the Buffalo Trace distillery. Coming soon...

oh man, that trip looks fun

Not a connoisseur by any stretch, but I do like me some bourbon these days and this looks amazing

Nice pics! When we made our trip through there several years it was easy to see how the locations of the distilleries were born out of moonshining and prohibition. We also loved seeing some of the horse farms in the area--simply amazing. My bourbon intake increased dramatically after that, so the tourism facet of their marketing paid off. In my case, at least.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510116#post58510116)

oh man, that trip looks fun

it really does not sure I could cope with 3-4 days of bourbon based hangovers though

by Tom Ames m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510264#post58510264)

Nice pics! When we made our trip through there several years it was easy to see how the locations of the distilleries were born out of moonshining and prohibition. We also loved seeing some of the horse farms in the area--simply amazing. My bourbon intake increased dramatically after that, so the tourism facet of their marketing paid off. In my case, at least.

For sure, my consumption hasn't lessened since I've been back. Also, in later installments you'll see that I ended up spending money on things I never would have known about had I not physically been there. by feel wrath m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510341#post58510341)

it really does not sure I could cope with 3-4 days of bourbon based hangovers though

I have definitely noticed the quality of the beverage makes a huge difference. Cheap liquor? Bad hangover. Quality stuff? Hardly anything at all. I think it definitely has to do with level of distillation, removing impurities etc. Of course, I know myself pretty well and I've gotten drunk but haven't gotten sloppy in decades. And when I say drunk, I'm still aware of the fact that I've drank enough and therefore probably am on the more sober part of the "drunk" spectrum.

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510451#post58510451)

For sure, my consumption hasn't lessened since I've been back. Also, in later installments you'll see that I ended up spending money on things I never would have known about had I not physically been there.

I completely understand. One of the distilleries we toured was Maker's Mark. One of the things they let you do at the gift shop is to dip your own bottle into the red wax to seal it yourself. Although I really enjoyed the two bottles we dipped that we brought home, I felt a strange sense of relief when we finished them off.

awesome writeup! keep 'em coming 😀

I just proofread myself and noticed this- ":B and I grab an utterly forgettable lunch at one of the places next door, head back to the hotel to recharge, then drink to Frankfort for the Buffalo Trace distillery. Coming soon..." The mistake is a Freudian slip if I ever saw one.

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510541#post58510541)

I just proofread myself and noticed this- ":B and I grab an utterly forgettable lunch at one of the places next door, head back to the hotel to recharge, then drink to Frankfort for the Buffalo Trace distillery. Coming soon..." The mistake is a Freudian slip if I ever saw one.

You transported me right back to my high school and college years, and I didn't even blink. I'm kind of ashamed to admit that I didn't.

Leon, what is your favorite bourbon at the $30-$50 price point? Maybe you don't really have one because the good cask/barrel strength bourbons tend to be pricier. I usually find it difficult to rationalize buying anything more expensive than Bulleit because I start to get major diminishing returns on any additional dollar spent.

@hardinthepaint, I know you asked Leon but I had to chime in regarding the cask strength question. I don't know where you live but I'd search out any of the following BP bourbons - Elijah Craig, Larceny Henry Mckenna BIB, and possibly Heaven Hill BIB - I also would rank those in that order too, pricing is in that order too.

by hardinthepaint m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510598#post58510598)

Leon, what is your favorite bourbon at the $30-$50 price point? Maybe you don't really have one because the good cask/barrel strength bourbons tend to be pricier. I usually find it difficult to rationalize buying anything more expensive than Bulleit because I start to get major diminishing returns on any additional dollar spent.

by Perrone66 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510878#post58510878)

@hardinthepaint, I know you asked Leon but I had to chime in regarding the cask strength question. I don't know where you live but I'd search out any of the following BP bourbons - Elijah Craig, Larceny Henry Mckenna BIB, and possibly Heaven Hill BIB - I also would rank those in that order too, pricing is in that order too.

Keep in mind I live in CA so the pricing is insane. At that price I can't find a "good" barrel strength, just acceptable ones. My favorite is basic buffalo trace- it's fine and is totally drinkable at 25-30$. Barrel strength wise, the Maker's and Elijah Craig are really your only options. My favorites are George T Stagg (Big Stagg, 1500$ bottle, I've never seen it in the wild and would never pay for this. This is a pure comp beverage), Stagg Jr (350-400$ in CA, same comments as above), and Bookers. Bookers can occasionally be found for 80$ at Costco here, they have a two bottle limit. Obv those go in about a hr once word gets out. I generally pay 150$/bottle when my local store gets them in, they price at 300$/bottle but I've worked out a deal with them where I buy in bulk and they don't charge me tax. Meh, I guess I'll have to take what I can get. I should pin this paragraph to the top of my TR- at the end of the day, if you like something, who cares what anyone else thinks. If you can afford it and you enjoy it, you're good. I think bourbon is less like wine but there's still a ton of douchebaggery out there- people driving up prices, talking about crap they don't know anything about, and making people feel bad for their own choices that ultimately come down to perception, emotions, and a unique human experience. Those people have no idea- maybe Maker's is your favorite bc you first had some when you got married, hit the lottery, got a raise, etc. Who knows. Those unique experiences completely change from person to person and if that influences why you like something who is anyone else to tell you you're "wrong"?

To add on to what I just posted- that's why I'm addicted to nicotine and probably always will be. I have so many positive emotions and experiences wrapped up in cigarettes that at this point they're completely intertwined. I didn't start until college but from that point so many hangouts, buddies, girlfriends, amazing meals, morning coffees, etc. Then, staying up all night playing online or real poker in med school. Smoking with my future wife, family, Vegas x 1000. etc etc etc My positive to negative emotion ratio with cigarettes is like 10000:1. I recognize it's a disgusting, stupid habit but how could my pathetic rat brain possibly hope to defeat such an addictive substance that has intertwined itself with everything good I've had or done in my life?

by Perrone66 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510878#post58510878)

@hardinthepaint, I know you asked Leon but I had to chime in regarding the cask strength question. I don't know where you live but I'd search out any of the following BP bourbons - Elijah Craig, Larceny Henry Mckenna BIB, and possibly Heaven Hill BIB - I also would rank those in that order too, pricing is in that order too.

Thanks, all recs welcome, of course. I find regular Elijah Craig to be really good value at ~$25/bottle, so I'm sure the barrel proof is a good deal, too. by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58511037#post58511037)

Keep in mind I live in CA so the pricing is insane. At that price I can't find a "good" barrel strength, just acceptable ones. My favorite is basic buffalo trace- it's fine and is totally drinkable at 25-30$. Barrel strength wise, the Maker's and Elijah Craig are really your only options.

I like Buffalo Trace, too. Been a while since I've had it side-by-side with Bulleit, though. I think I'd rather spring an extra couple bucks for Bulleit. by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58511037#post58511037)

I should pin this paragraph to the top of my TR- at the end of the day, if you like something, who cares what anyone else thinks. If you can afford it and you enjoy it, you're good. I think bourbon is less like wine but there's still a ton of douchebaggery out there- people driving up prices, talking about crap they don't know anything about, and making people feel bad for thei... See full post

Yep, the best wine is the wine you enjoy drinking. And in my experience, with both wine and whiskey, there's a strong correlation between price and quality up to about $50/bottle, after which there is very little correlation. There's a certain minimum cost of making a premium product you just can't get around without cutting corners, but once you're there, a lot of it is subjective, brand appeal, etc.

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58510030#post58510030)

They let us sample the high wine and warned people that if they didn't like it they could just dump it on the floor. What does it say about me and B that we drank it and said, "that's actually not bad. I could just sit around and drink this". LOL

Ha, my buddies and I did a guys' trip to Nashville, Owensboro (where one lives), Louisville, and Cincinnati with bar trivia, bourbon tours, and gambling, and I had the same high wine experience of "hell, I could drink this". Really recommend the Rabbit Hole tour in Lousiville, cool place, great guide, enjoyed the Bourbon. Also really enjoyed Neeley Family Distillery on the way from Louisville to Cincinnati. Their tasting lets you pick 8 of their creations, and they have a lot of different stuff, including a really excellent absinthe.

If you want cheap higher proof stuff, try Old Grand Dad 114. I usually see it for under $30.

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58511045#post58511045)

To add on to what I just posted- that's why I'm addicted to nicotine and probably always will be. I have so many positive emotions and experiences wrapped up in cigarettes that at this point they're completely intertwined. I didn't start until college but from that point so many hangouts, buddies, girlfriends, amazing meals, morning coffees, etc. Then, staying up all night play... See full post

I thought i'd be a smoker for life then when I quit it was mostly for logistical reasons as I moved in with gf who didn't want smoking in the house and taking elevator down to the 4th floor terrace was too much to ask took about a week for cravings to go away it was capped off by 2-3 sleepless nights filled with cold sweats but then, it was gone and truly gone didn't even want a cig, they now smell disgusting to me and even when I'll occasionally bum one from someone for the lols I won't enjoy it at all, think it's kind of nasty and usually put it out halfway through - this is true even if I'm wasted thought i'd be craving them for the rest of my life, was not the case in the slightest

by MEb m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58511223#post58511223)

If you want cheap higher proof stuff, try Old Grand Dad 114. I usually see it for under $30.

Never seen this but I'll keep my eyes open now! by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58511343#post58511343)

I thought i'd be a smoker for lifethen when I quit it was mostly for logistical reasons as I moved in with gf who didn't want smoking in the house and taking elevator down to the 4th floor terrace was too much to asktook about a week for cravings to go awayit was capped off by 2-3 sleepless nights filled with cold sweatsbut then, it was gone and truly gonedidn't even want a cig... See full post

This is basically my wife. Ex smoker all through college, grew up in Paris LOL. Basically born with a cigarette in hand. When she decided she was done, she just quit. No cravings now, thinks it's gross. Never tempted. I envy you guys. I still use multiple pieces of nicorette on a daily basis. My take- you guys aren't true addicts LOL. Congrats on kicking the habit though.

Bourbon TR part 2 B and I drive to Frankfort for the Buffalo Trace distillery. Ahead of time, I'd have said this was the one I was most looking forward to. It's the only one my wife was not able to book for me way in advance. The booking for the tours open 3 mo in advance and they are complimentary. I literally set an alarm the day the bookings opened. When I got on the website, the specialty tour had already filled! I hastily grabbed a slot that I thought would be convenient, then checked the rest of our agenda, realized we wouldn't be able to make it, went back to the website and in that 3 min or so almost all the slots had gone! I'm glad B and I were able to get this in. As I mentioned before, basic BT is my go to for regular bourbon. Definitely drinkable and one of the few that isn't insanely overpriced in CA. Plus, the antique collection has some of the best in the world, including my absolute favorite George T Stagg, its baby brother Stagg Jr (not part of the antique collection itself but my second favorite). I'm well aware I will neither get to sample anything amazing, nor purchase during this tour, but I still want to see my "favorite" distillery.

Thought this last one was cool. This was, until very recently, BT's onsite fire house. It's probably obv to most, but millions of gallons of alcohol + tons of wood lined up in neat little rows = massive fire hazard. I can't believe that the fire house was this small, honestly.

The relative loss of volume as bourbon gets older to evaporation/ the "angel's share". Pretty sick how little is left in something that's really old and it kind of explains why the price gets so high.

What we got to sample. The fact they pass out free samples of Blanton's, on what are free tours, should tell you exactly how "special" Blanton's really is.

After the tour, B and I hit the gift shop and go to town. Not much alcohol-wise to grab, but I do get a bottle of bourbon cream as a gift for a friend back home. Pick up some gifts for my family and a Stagg T shirt for myself. Score.

Cool things I learned on this tour-

• BT is one of the oldest and biggest distilleries in the world, AND STILL they couldn't make it on their own, and eventually got bought out by Sazerac.
• Weller got bought out by either BT or Sazerac, and Wellers are aged and bottled on site. Same process, same barrels, same everything. Slap a different label on the bottle and it's a "different" bourbon, but realistically 99% of all bourbon sold today is from the same 2-3 giant multinational corporations that own everything.
• The site tries to use gravity/take advantage of the local surroundings wherever possible. It just makes sense especially when you think about how stuff was done back in the day before a ton of machinery. So the barrels start at a higher place on the floor when they get assembled, then get "rolled" down to be used when done. Same thing with the rick houses where the aging occurs- put those lower than the assembly and distillery if possible. Put them higher than where the bottling occurs (and where you have to end up getting the barrel to).
• the blackening all over the walls, etc is alcohol fungus that literally eats the alcohol vapors from the air. It's totally harmless to people, but back during Prohibition was one of the ways the feds would find illegal distillers- just look for the house/trees etc that have black on them (more on this in a bit).
• the difference between basic Weller and BT? Literally what part of the warehouse the barrel sits in. That's it. Other same mash bill, same wood, etc. It's amazing to me how much of a difference the location can make, bc I'm not a huge fan of basic Weller (and it's definitely overhyped) but BT is just fine by me. B and I head back to Lexington. After chilling for a while, we hit a live music place before dinner. The place is empty (it's late afternoon on St. Paddy's day), looks like a college bar (it is) and quickly fills up. I manage to get a pour of Stagg Jr in a plastic cup lol. B skips it, not wanting to be served that bourbon that way. Later, we find he made a mistake bc I paid 12$ for that pour haha. Cheapest I've ever had Stagg Jr. Honestly I think the bartender rang it up wrong, I don't think he had any idea what he was serving and they had it on the bottom shelf.

You know it's a college bar when they have a beer pong table ready to go.

We hit a pretty upscale restaurant and it's 7-8/10. Forgot to take a lot of pics but you're looking at the biggest lamb shank I've ever had.

Sat night, downtown Lexington, on St. Paddy's day. This is the busiest I ever saw the place get.

B and I crash. We're checking out tomorrow and headed to Louisville. Day 3 Our first stop is the bed and breakfast we're staying at. We're a little early for check in. The owner is very gracious, he sets us up with our own unique security codes so we can get in/out of the place and our rooms. We had reserved one room and a rollaway bed, but for no reason whatsoever he gives us another room free of charge. Score! Shout out to the Louisville Bourbon Inn. B and I have our last tour of the trip soon- Stitzel-Weller. I've got some pics of the BnB later in this report.

Things I learned on this tour-

• after hearing about Weller being owned by Sazerac on the BT tour, B and I naturally wondered, "which Weller are we seeing on the Weller tour?". In a nutshell- Weller was its own distillery. The line was sold to Sazerac. The name Weller was left on this distillery.
• well then, what of the most expensive bourbon that everyone knows of, Pappy Van Winkle? It's owned by Sazerac, but... Pappy worked for Weller. Eventually had an ownership stake in this distillery. Distilled and bottled Weller, not Pappy (didn't exist). Pappy Sr dies. Bourbon market crashes, Weller name sold to Sazerac. Weller distillery eventually bought by Diageo. Diageo doesn't want any of the bourbon aging but can't physically do anything with it yet (you can't just dump the alcohol and close up shop). Pappy grandson gets nostalgic, wants to honor his grandfather's legacy. Buys up all the Weller barrels, still aging in the now Diageo warehouse, that were the exact mash bill Pappy Sr used. Diageo only too happy to get rid of the stuff.
• can't sell Pappy to save his life. Pappy literally gathering dust on the shelves and selling for fractions of its current value. Pappy grandson has to sell to Sazerac, thus Sazerac owns the Pappy line, and the Weller name, but the alcohol is literally Weller alcohol, aging in the Weller distillery, owned by Diageo, who wants nothing to do with any of this. Got all that? Then, Pappy gets rated at a global spirits convention as the best liquor, ever. Cue insanity and fuel for the current bourbon craze.
• Post script to all of this- Diageo immediately stops selling all the Pappy barrels so they can bottle and sell their own. They can't use either the Weller OR Pappy name. SO, if you see Blade and Bow 22 yrs, just know that's 22 yr old Weller. Or Pappy. Literally, all three are the same. You're welcome. Another further irony to this- as I just said, if you took "old" Weller, it's the exact same as Pappy. Any "new" Weller is bottled at BT- completely different mash bill etc. Same with more recent Pappy- any newer Pappy is going to come from the BT distillery and is NOT the same mash bill and aging conditions as original Pappy. The only place you can get anything approximating old Pappy is from the one place that CAN'T use the name. LOL I hope you all followed that. I thought it was super interesting. Other stuff- to get around the black fungus/Prohibition issue, local communities would ALL paint their houses, fences, trees black in solidarity with the bootleggers. Can you imagine being a fed and driving up to some small rural community, and see rows of houses painted black? I think I'd turn around and just get the hell out of there. You're on enemy territory now.
• IW "Harper"s last name was actually Weinstein or another Jewish name. Being the smart guy that he was, he changed his last name to make sure he could sell to a prejudiced country. After he made his fortune, he donated tons of money to the poor people of Kentucky, established all the Jewish hospitals in the area, and bought up a huge plot of land specifically for the poor. To get a loan back in the day, you had to have land as collateral, which basically ensured the poor could never get a loan and never get ahead. IW used the land as "free" collateral for any poor person trying to get a loan. He sounds like a remarkable person.
• Bulliet's label is purposefully "not straight", bc when the eventual owner was just an employee at another distillery, he got docked pay for a label that was slightly off center. So now all of his bottles do that purposefully as a subtle FU to his old employers. It's time for the tasting!

So, what does SW actually bottle and sell? Bulliet, IW Harper and Blade and Bow. I'm not a huge fan of any of these, but we do get to try Bulliet single barrel which is both higher proof and MUCH tastier IMO. I grab a bottle of that on the way out.

B and I head back to the B+B. We check in with our host and check out our rooms. We also grab some recs from him for stuff to do. He recommends the Louisville Slugger museum- as he puts it, he's not a baseball fan but the museum is super cool. The bar he recommends is very close to where we're eating dinner, so I think we know what we're doing for the remainder of this trip! Coming soon...

One other really cool thing I learned on the SW tour I forgot to mention- during the bourbon bust in the 70s and 80s, the Japanese were really keeping the industry alive. In contrast to America where people were either avoiding the "old person's drink" or "something only dumb white trash drinks", the Japanese had learned to appreciate a good bourbon. So, when American/Japanese trade really took off, what did the Japanese serve their honored guests? American bourbon!! Where did they take them after meetings? To Japanese bourbon bars! They were literally flabbergasted that they were teaching Americans about their own drink. You literally can't make bourbon anywhere BUT America- it's like champagne, where it comes from is part of the definition. The Japanese were in very many real ways responsible for a) keeping bourbon alive and b) reintroducing it to its home country.

Awesome write-up! I've been on 4 or 5 bourbon tours and learned something on each one. And I learned something new from your tours that I took vicariously. Sadly, no tasting between the tour and the gift shop though. If I ever get back in the neighborhood, I think BT will be at the top of my list.

Interested to hear your impression of Louisville as a city.

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512281#post58512281)

• Bulliet's label is purposefully "not straight", bc when the eventual owner was just an employee at another distillery, he got docked pay for a label that was slightly off center. So now all of his bottles do that purposefully as a subtle FU to his old employers.

Now that is a fun fact. 😀

leon that was my favorite sequence of your illustrated thoughts artful eye for framing interesting industrial architecture combined with a phonographic memory card plugged deep into the core texture of your brain i can not echo how iconic you sound once or when repeated within my cerebourbon

Leon-you’ve taken your trip and the ability to take us all along to a whole different level. Thanks to you for sharing, and taking us with you. May your life run good continue!

Yes, truly a fascinating trip, with great pictures!!

Leon I am curious. I’m a big whiskey fan but stopped drinking as my hangovers get REALLY bad with age, especially when I am in Vegas and mixing it with dry air and lack of sleep. How do you deal with whiskey and hangovers and what’s your count? If I am at the blackjack table my limit is usually a double Macallan, anything more than that and I will be hating life the next day.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512381#post58512381)

Interested to hear your impression of Louisville as a city.

I'll do my best in the next installment when I talk about the B+B, downtown etc. by MuckPls m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58512967#post58512967)

Leon I am curious. I’m a big whiskey fan but stopped drinking as my hangovers get REALLY bad with age, especially when I am in Vegas and mixing it with dry air and lack of sleep. How do you deal with whiskey and hangovers and what’s your count? If I am at the blackjack table my limit is usually a double Macallan, anything more than that and I will be hating life the next day.

I basically don't get hungover. Lucky, I suppose. As I said earlier, once I started drinking decent stuff it's not a problem, I have to way overdo it to run the risk of a hangover. The lack of sleep definitely doesn't help. As you might know I try to get a nap in every day in Vegas and I'm sure that helps.

i can't speak for hard alcohol but in my 30s I had to start cutting out beer because if i had just 3-4 beers on a light drinking evening where i wasn't even drunk then the next day I'd feel absolutely terrible with migraines and being glued to the bathroom and my skin would just be terrible the next day with fresh outbreaks of adult acne meanwhile, if i were drinking heavily and getting blackout drunk on wine or spirits until 6 am i'd wake up feeling 10x better than if i drank just 3-4 beers without the skin or digestive problems so i naturally began writing off beer as "gives me nasty hangovers - avoid at all costs" and switched to hard wine and hard alcohol instead years later i discover i have celiac disease - it wasn't that beer gave me hangovers, it was that beer is basically just liquid gluten and that's what was causing all those issues - i wasn't hungover at all, i was just having a gluten reaction and that wasn't acne, it was celiac blisters even though a lot of spirits are sourced from stuff that has gluten, the distillation process leaves it behind so it's good to go, also loving life that things like whiteclaw are big now because now i can casually chug again instead of taking very controlled and measured sips while at parties celiac is something that can sneak up on you slowly as you age and thus you learn to cope with the results, rationalize it as just part of aging/whatever, and would refuse to believe you have celiac unless your doctor told you directly, and even then you'd ask for a second opinion

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58513248#post58513248)

i can't speak for hard alcohol but in my 30s I had to start cutting out beer because if i had just 3-4 beers on a light drinking evening where i wasn't even drunk then the next day I'd feel absolutely terrible with migraines and being glued to the bathroom and my skin would just be terrible the next day with fresh outbreaks of adult acnemeanwhile, if i were drinking heavily and... See full post

This. I've tried to eat low carb and esp zero gluten for many years now. It started off as a fitness thing but now it's more a lifestyle goal. I'm almost hesitant to type this next part bc nutrition is kind of like politics- it's a fight waiting to happen. That said, there's no question in my mind that the human body runs better on low/near zero carbs. Of all the carbs, gluten containing sources are the worst. Don't get me wrong, I love bread and pasta, but that protein... man, it's inflammatory. I actually think all humans are gluten intolerant to varying degrees- some get celiac, while others just get microscopic inflammation and never know it. But the damage is being done to all of us. So yes, spirits are great for that! Zero gluten. Bonus- zero sugars. 100% of the calories comes from alcohol and alcohol sugars (which aren't the same thing). It's part of the reason I tend not to drink cocktails either- why would I add back in more calories and sugar?

by leon m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58513240#post58513240)

I'll do my best in the next installment when I talk about the B+B, downtown etc.I basically don't get hungover. Lucky, I suppose. As I said earlier, once I started drinking decent stuff it's not a problem, I have to way overdo it to run the risk of a hangover.The lack of sleep definitely doesn't help. As you might know I try to get a nap in every day in Vegas and I'm sure that ... See full post

I drink decent stuff too. If I drink whiskey I get hungover no matter what. If I stick to top shelf tequila then my threshold is a bit higher, I was told because of clarity of the alcohol. Either way, sticking to edibles for my upcoming trip!

Long time drinker. Gonna drop some knowledge here, so take notes.

Spoiler Show

Drink more water!

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

Bourbon TR part 3

B and I head to the Louisville Slugger museum. I'm a casual baseball fan, B is more into the game. His son plays Little League, B is an assistant coach and he wants to get his dad a souvenir if possible.

This bat is gigantic and is actually made of steel.

We sign up for the factory tour so we can see how the bats are made.

Pretty ridiculous the stupid hoops we make women jump through. Who gives an F about beauty, etiquette classes etc? They're supposed to be athletes.

The tour was pretty cool. They can make a professional grade bat in minutes from the raw materials. It was fun to watch modern machinery do in seconds what took weeks by hand back in the day. Afterwards, they gave us little mini replica bats. We briefly considered hitting the batting cages but there was an extra fee and a line, so we hit the gift shop instead. I didn't get anything, but B picked up a custom bat for his dad- early Father's Day gift taken care of!

Some pics of the B+B. It was a 3 story Brownstone, decorated like grandma's house inside. Definitely good enough for a 1 night stay.

B and I head out to NULU which is supposed to be the "happening" part of town, and where both dinner and the recommended bar is. I might as well put this here- my overall thoughts on Louisville is that it's pretty run down/has seen better days. Lexington had more of a college town feel, and of course we didn't get to see very much but there were no obvious areas where I wouldn't want to go at night. Driving to our B+B, we passed a ton of boarded up houses, chain link fences, people pushing shopping carts, etc. B and I actually commented to each other that the B+B was in a pretty ghetto part of town. Same thing with NULU- when we got there, we briefly walked around but just saw more boarded up buildings, etc. We intentionally walked away from the bar at first to see other stuff, only to turn around rapidly when we realized there was nothing TO SEE in that direction. Walking towards the bar, more of the same. We passed a block of nicer shops, etc but nothing remarkable. Then, we got to the block the bar was on- a few pride flags, an art gallery, and the bar! So, overall thoughts on Louisville- not enough data, obv, but I suspect the town has seen better days. B and I sit and have the place all to ourselves. We start picking the owner's brain and she recommended several flights to us that are only available in KY.

This place was the score of the trip. Amongst the bourbons we sampled was one called Ingram which might as well have been Stagg Jr! Except, it was 80$ a bottle vs 350-400. We emptied the store out of that stock, and got multiple other bottles as well. SO happy we got this recommendation. We literally walked to the restaurant carrying two cardboard boxes full of booze LOL. The restaurant is New Orleans style food, I think it was called Lou Lous?

I grab the wings and gumbo. Wings were 8/10, gumbo 7/10. Beignets 9/10, that chocolate sauce was amazing.

Afterwards, we hear blues and country coming from somewhere downstairs, so we head down and find a small bar with a bunch of old people, and a live band.

This was pretty cool, for me anyways. The band honestly wasn't very good, but live music is ALWAYS good just bc it's live. I think the band and crowd were all friends and family haha- at multiple times, people in the audience would just come up and start singing, or playing instruments, etc. At least one song they played had to have been an original- it was so cheesy and weird, yet everyone in there knew it (except us, obv). I could have stayed longer, but we bail when I see B starting to fade. Turns out he feeling a little hungover and tired. Day 4

Nothing on the agenda today but the B+B's homecooked breakfast, and then the long travel back to SD...

We're flying Southwest, and the best that can be said is all the flights are on time. Soon enough, we're back home!

Bourbon haul from the trip.

Very happy B and I got to do this, and the best part is I have to power through a couple long days of work and I'm back in Vegas! Part 2 of the TR coming soon...

by MuckPls m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58513303#post58513303)

I drink decent stuff too. If I drink whiskey I get hungover no matter what. If I stick to top shelf tequila then my threshold is a bit higher, I was told because of clarity of the alcohol. Either way, sticking to edibles for my upcoming trip!

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply you drink swill. It's just weird how it hits everyone differently. The water advice obv is spot on.