Bobby's Breakroom - for gaming employee chatter + YTF appreciation. See restrictions in Post #1

Moderator Breakroom Thread Posting Guidelines Update 1/4/25 In June 2019, crowd-favorite poster and story-teller extraordinaire youtalkfunny (aka YTF) passed away unexpectedly. At the request of the thread and forum regulars, this thread was renamed in his memory. (Further info on YTF to be added.) This Breakroom thread is unlike other threads in CCP. It has been specifically restricted to allow current and former poker room employees to have a place to vent or discuss work-related things amongst other employees. It is the virtual equivalent to a real employee breakroom. Because of that, it is exclusively for the use of poker room employees, home game dealers (when appropriate), and those seeking advice on cardroom employment only. It is not a place for non-employees to argue with dealers or floors about their rulings, insert themselves into employee-to-employee discussions, ask general questions of dealers or cardroom employees, or target or attack any decisions discussed. Posts which violate these restrictions may be moved or removed with no prior notice. Repeat violations may be handled more robustly. If anyone sees a post from someone which you do not think belongs in this thread, please use the post report functionality to report it and the mods will take a look when time allows. If you respond to it, that just makes our lives more difficult, and makes it harder to remove later if substantial dialog has already occurred. Non-poker room employees are welcome to read the thread and get a peek into what goes on in a poker room breakroom. But please be cognizant of the purpose of the thread, and do not post in the thread. If you feel a topic is worth discussing in the open forum, then you can start a new thread on the topic there. If you have any questions as to the appropriateness of a post for this thread, please check with a moderator prior to posting. [Jan 2025 update to adjust posting rules to limit solely to employees, dealers, and prospective employees in search of advice.] [July 2019 update: renamed in honor of YTF]

OP follows. Note that the restrictions on this thread have been further refined, and the rules above supercede anything posted below.

Welcome to the Breakroom! What is this thread? The goal of this thread is to give industry employees a place to chat it up about anything and everything work related. Something funny happen at work tonight? Did that Dual Rate finally let you EO? Did you stack that chump at the weekly dealer game? It's all about building community here and getting to know each other. Got something you want to say that might not be worthy of it's own thread? Shout it out here. Of course, anyone is welcome to post here, whether you are a gaming employee or not, but I wanted to try to build a lowish content thread of chatter for all the cool cats here I've met. UPDATE re scope and purpose of this thread

by Quadstriker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=42640082#post42640082)

PSA: The issue of what should be posted here was discussed with the moderators prior to creation. These comments are not directed at any one person.In general, it was not created to be a place for non-gaming employees to come and poll the dealers whenever they have a question about poker. There is a whole forum dedicated to those types of threads. It may get a bit lax from... See full post

It is just amazing to me when people don't show up for an audition dressed appropriately.

One time I was playing some morning poker while they were getting ready to do auditions. Only one table running, and one person set to audition was to my right. Auditions start at 10am, but there was also a $100 hot seat at 10am. The draw takes place after the 10am hand finishes. The guy runs over and asks the manager if he can stay for the drawing before they start. He says "Yeah, I mean, I guess so." so he runs back to play the last hand. It gets to him on the button and he immediately slams down a big raise. I look down at KK and figure he'll keep betting to try and finish the hand early. So I tank call and hit top set. I check. He slams down another bet so I again tank then call. Turn I check and he shoves. I call and he flings his cards into the muck. Neither of us won the draw. He ran to the audition several minutes late, heavily tilted, and $300 lighter. This was before I was a dealer, I might not handle it the same today.

As a poker player, I love this story. I love stories that involve taking weird information and using it to your advantage. That said, how (and why?) would you play it differently today? It sounds like you used the information available to you and made your best decisions with it.

Let's bring up a topic that may or may not get some interesting responses. Since this is a thread for poker dealers on a website dedicated to improving your poker play...... How has dealing poker made you a better poker player? I know my direct response to this and I have some general comments, but I will hold off to hear others first because I think there will be some good responses. I think there is a lot to learn in this.

Uh, it's made me not want to spend any time voluntarily being around poker players.

Dealing has not made me a better player. The only way to get better from watching poker is to really pay attention and play back hands after they finish, figuring out the what's and why's of what just happened. I'm just trying to either not make any mistakes (tournament) or to crank out as many hands as I can (cash). The only thing it's been good for is understanding table selection. I've seen how nitty 1-2 and 1-3 games get absolutely destroyed by the rake. I used to stay in those games way too long hoping to make something from them, now I'll find a new table or go home. The difference between one table and another can be huge in a way players typically don't see. Also different stakes play very differently in different cities. Sometimes 2-5 is where the action is, sometimes it's where action goes to die. Sometimes low stakes PLO is all crazy gamblers, sometimes it's all grinders. I'm also of the belief that big high hand promos don't help anyone but the house and maybe the bad players. They kill action which kills player profit and tips, and the occasional windfall is not enough to make up for it. I just saw a room taking out $3 for the promo drop when the pot hits $20. But they increase room traffic, so they've taken over most rooms.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58405011#post58405011)

That said, how (and why?) would you play it differently today?

I would have gotten a little less pleasure from watching him squirm while I tanked, at least.

Reducto, how do you believe high hand promos kill action? I haven't noticed that happening in games I play.

by chillrob m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406412#post58406412)

Reducto, how do you believe high hand promos kill action? I haven't noticed that happening in games I play.

Players will call a bit more, but they bet a lot less. Hit a set? Check/call it to the river hoping to improve. Flop a combo draw? Check/call it to the river hoping to hit the straight flush. They also bring in the tiny limit games who win a higher percentage of the high hands because they're all making it to the river. In some rooms those games tip well enough, in others they're terrible. I've consistently done better as a dealer and player in the late night games after high hands end.

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406421#post58406421)

Players will call a bit more, but they bet a lot less. Hit a set? Check/call it to the river hoping to improve. Flop a combo draw? Check/call it to the river hoping to hit the straight flush. They also bring in the tiny limit games who win a higher percentage of the high hands because they're all making it to the river. In some rooms those games tip well enough, in others they'... See full post

Oh, where I play if you have a hand that could improve to a high hand bonus winner and everyone folds, they will rabbit hunt the turn and river to see if it would have hit, and you still win. I guess that prevents the need to slowplay.

by chillrob m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406465#post58406465)

Oh, where I play if you have a hand that could improve to a high hand bonus winner and everyone folds, they will rabbit hunt the turn and river to see if it would have hit, and you still win. I guess that prevents the need to slowplay.

Wow, I’ve never heard of this. It may even be against gaming regulations.

by chillrob m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406465#post58406465)

Oh, where I play if you have a hand that could improve to a high hand bonus winner and everyone folds, they will rabbit hunt the turn and river to see if it would have hit, and you still win. I guess that prevents the need to slowplay.

I've played and dealt a lot of rooms and never heard of that. In fact, one of the dealers in my old room got his gaming license revoked for pulling that move.

Washington state.

by dinesh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58407870#post58407870)

Washington state.

Yes, it is in Washington, and I'm sure they wouldn't be doing it if it went against gaming regulations. It certainly seems better for the games than having people check it down to see if they hit.

by chillrob m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58407968#post58407968)

Yes, it is in Washington, and I'm sure they wouldn't be doing it if it went against gaming regulations. It certainly seems better for the games than having people check it down to see if they hit.

I'm not doubting your story, just pointing out how unusual that rule is. I've played in WA a few times but never during a high hand promo.

I'm torn on how I'd feel about having this policy. It would make the 1/2 games less bad, and increase profit for the house slightly, and players would like it. And I suppose I'd deal an extra high hand occasionally that I wouldn't have otherwise. But it would get old being asked to run the turn and river every time a player has an overpair and they need to see if it would make runner runner quads after everyone folded on the flop.

Everything has a cost .. if you want to Rabbit Hunt, then toss in $1 more for the rake (not Promo Fund). I'm also in favor of extra rake for RIT, so this should be no surprise here. GL

Anyone looking to move? Potawatomi Casino in Milwaukee has posted the Poker Room Manager position with an eye on 'Spring' poker re-opening. I have no clue how it's taken this long for this facility to reopen post-CV .. Previously hosting two WSOPc Series and Two Main and Two Regional MSPT events per year along with it's own tournaments. While Rivers (near O'Hare) and perhaps Green Bay has taken in some of the poker action there has to be lots of pent up poker in this large city. They actually ran Limit Games on the regular too! Just FYI .. GL

by machi5 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408440#post58408440)

I'm torn on how I'd feel about having this policy. It would make the 1/2 games less bad, and increase profit for the house slightly, and players would like it. And I suppose I'd deal an extra high hand occasionally that I wouldn't have otherwise. But it would get old being asked to run the turn and river every time a player has an overpair and they need to see if it would make ... See full post

They don't run it out for that, only in the cases where just one more card is needed to make a high hand, when someone already has a set or straight flush draw. Also, if the current high hand can't be beat they don't run it. So if there is already a straight flush on the board, they don't bother to see if you would have made quads.

by chillrob m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408774#post58408774)

They don't run it out for that, only in the cases where just one more card is needed to make a high hand, when someone already has a set or straight flush draw. Also, if the current high hand can't be beat they don't run it. So if there is already a straight flush on the board, they don't bother to see if you would have made quads.

Well with those stipulations, I'm on board. Sign up my room for this policy, it actually sounds good. Now that I think of it, there was a room here in FL (Derby Lane) that had a spade royal progressive jackpot in the early 2000's-- as a few other places did-- before high hand promos as we know them today. And I recall that even if you raised PF and everyone folded, you were allowed to rabbit hunt the whole damn board and be eligible if you had two broadway spades in your hand. The only hole in my memory is that I can't remember if it was cash games only, tourneys only, or both.

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58406374#post58406374)

Dealing has not made me a better player. The only way to get better from watching poker is to really pay attention and play back hands after they finish, figuring out the what's and why's of what just happened. I'm just trying to either not make any mistakes (tournament) or to crank out as many hands as I can (cash).The only thing it's been good for is understanding table selec... See full post

It sounds like being a dealer has made you a better player even if it is just game selection because that is a very important detail to being a profitable poker player. I agree that in order to get better watching poker you need to play back and review hands after you see them, but I think that hand review while slightly distracted is easier than most think. Even when playing and I am not in a hand and distracted (on my phone or talking to someone else) I still somewhat pay attention to the action so I would be aware if there is any gross plays or such. Same while dealing. Unless distracted by dealer duties (counting my rack, getting a fill, etc.) I think dealing is fairly slow so there are lots of periods (especially postflop) where players are thinking that a dealer has absolutely nothing to do. A dealer can spend thus time glancing at the nearby TV (which I have done), mildly ogle a nearby cocktail waitress/massage girl (which I have done), or try and put each player on a range (which is what I usually do). The bigger games a great for this, not only are the players better and therefore much harder to read, but there is also much more downtime as the hands will take longer with more thinking. That said, a vast majority of my dealer errors come from anticipating the action too much and being wrong.

One of the most profitable players I ever knew was a high limit PLO player. He gave me advice about winning that I never forgot. He told me that the most important part way to win money is to play against players who aren't as good as you. He used to get great lineups together and would reserve a table in my room that would have the other PLO pros drooling as they played at lower stakes against each other.

by bolt2112 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58412923#post58412923)

One of the most profitable players I ever knew was a high limit PLO player. He gave me advice about winning that I never forgot. He told me that the most important part way to win money is to play against players who aren't as good as you. He used to get great lineups together and would reserve a table in my room that would have the other PLO pros drooling as they played at low... See full post

The better advice would have been to tell you how he got that group of players together. I have heard of this kind of thing many times and wonder how they do it.

by chillrob m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58413146#post58413146)

The better advice would have been to tell you how he got that group of players together. I have heard of this kind of thing many times and wonder how they do it.

By being very social and making it a fun game. The pros at the table made a point of playing looser than normal and would make EV- plays from time to time to keep the game lively. And they kept the alcohol flowing. The GTO pros at the lower stakes games never got the hang of it.

Back at my old house job I got pretty burned out towards the end. I rarely act out, but once in a while I hit my limit. Especially when players are touching me, I'm not a fan of that. One night a player to my right was sitting low with his legs crossed and one leg sticking straight out. I'm sitting high up and his foot starts tapping me in the calf. I start asking him to stop. First subtly "Is that your foot?" while looking down, then more directly, then full on "Can you try to not kick me?" while pointing at his foot. He completely ignored me and kept on doing it. In fact, he was moving further under me and eventually he was non stop tapping the back of my knee with his shin. Game on. Calling the floor would cost me hands and all they would do is ask him to stop which he would for a few minutes then start in again. So I wait. A few hands go by, he's tapping away at my leg, I'm saying nothing. Then the thing I waited for happened - seat 3 put a bet out that was too far for me to reach without standing up. I hook the guy's foot with my right leg then stand up on my left and move WAY over to the left to grab the chips. Dude falls completely out of his chair and I just look over at him like I have no idea what happened. "Are you ok?" "Yeah fine." He stayed pointed straight ahead with his feet on the floor for the rest of the night. Anyone else have any stories of being petty on the job?

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58417911#post58417911)

Anyone else have any stories of being petty on the job?

Oh man. As someone who can be the most petty when I feel someone deserves it, I don't know where to stop once I get started...... My first job petty story was against an A-hole shift manager. I learned poker dealing at a charity event company where the person running it was a nice guy, but literally did not give a duck. As a result, dealer rotations were haphazard. I was used to dealer rotations being always messed up. So I land a regular casino dealing job. I am about a month into it, I have had the usual growing pains, but nothing too bad. Overall it is going well. One day I get tapped out of a table and the rotation has me going to table 10 next. I head over and it is a different dealer than I have been following. It is this ancient,older, elderly dealer named Betty. I tap her and say last hand. She turns to me and says she has only been in the box a few hands. She wonders if I should be tapping her out. Now Betty is older than dirt. She has been dealing forever. She is old enough that she has probably slept with a couple of Jesus's disciples. If she is questioning me tapping her out, then I should be questioning it to. So I look up and see the shift manager by the front desk. So I tell Betty I will go find out what is going on. I head over to the shift manager and explain what Betty said and question if I should be tapping her out. He rips me a new *******. In fact he rips me two new *******s. He starts swearing at me and tells me I am an idiot and I just need to follow the rotation. The worst part about it is he does it on front of a couple of customers, another dealer, and the front desk girl. Just totally goes off on me. I sheepishly walk away back to table 10 and tell Betty I am tapping her out. Whatever. A few days later I get tapped out of a game. The rotation say I should go to table 2. I head that way and table 2 is empty. I know this must be a mistake. Table 2 is rarely used on the room. It is in a corner that is hard to get to. I stand there for a second trying to figure out what to do. I know I should go over to the shift manager and say something, but it is the A-hole. Even if I am right it is going to be a mess I would rather avoid. So I double and triple check the rotation and it says I should be at table 2 so I stay there. I sit at a dead spread. Nope, not going to get yelled at again. As I sit there for a few minutes looking around I see a couple of dealers looking around and realize that they have not been tapped out. It takes me a few minutes and I realize that they are downstream from me in the rotation. As one of them calls the floor over and talks to them I take stock of the floor and look at the whole rotation carefully. I realize that table 12 is occupied and isn't in the rotation. I also see that all of the dealers downstream of that table have not been pushed yet. It is really clear that table 2 in the rotation should really be table 12. I should have tapped table 12. However the rotation said 2. Being a person who wants to get it right, I start to get up and find the boss to correct it. Then my mind clicks to the other day when i was chewed out. I sit right back down. I know what is right, but eff it, I am going to be petty and maliciously comply. A few minutes later, one of the downstream dealers get a floorperson who then gets the shift manager. It takes him a few seconds to look at the list and try and figure out what is going on. Eventually he comes rushing over to me and asks me what I am doing? I really try and hide my smile (but I am 100% sure I failed) and told him that that the rotation said I should be on table 2. He starts to yell at me, but I can literally see his face change as he remembers what he said the other day. He swears a couple of times and tells me to go tap out table 12. I go tap out table 12 and deal the last 7 or 8 minutes of the down. I was so happy to be petty and piss off this shift manager for being an A-hole. Eff him. The one downside I did not think about until later was that I screwed another dealer out of their break. They got stuck in the last table of the rotation. I just hope they made decent money on their extra long down.

In retrospect I'm not proud of this one, but it was very early in my dealing career, and I'll be transparent for the sake of the thread. We had a 2-4 limit game and dealing it was pretty much guaranteed to be a miserable 30 minutes no matter who was at the table. But in this instance, there was an older guy who seemingly went out of his way to be a jerk at all times. He was downright nasty whether he was winning or losing. We had a player go all-in on the flop, so the main pot was closed with about $20 in it. The jerk was sitting in seat 2 and he was heads-up for a side pot with another player. The jerk bet the turn and was called, so now there was $8 in the side pot. The jerk bet the river and the other player folded. Jerk thinks the hand is over and tosses his cards to me, face down. I didn't hesitate and turbo-mucked his cards and pushed the main pot to the all-in player. In the moment I was incredibly proud of myself. Looking back, I realize that the jerk brought me down to his level.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421454#post58421454)

Eventually he comes rushing over to me and asks me what I am doing? I really try and hide my smile (but I am 100% sure I failed) and told him that that the rotation said I should be on table 2.

I would have done the same and would have been grinning ear to ear the whole time. Anyone who lashes out like that at someone who can't defend themselves (being a newbie underling) deserves to be mocked relentlessly.

by bolt2112 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421503#post58421503)

In the moment I was incredibly proud of myself. Looking back, I realize that the jerk brought me down to his level.

Congrats on 10,000 posts. One day while commiserating with another dealer about the level of misery omnipresent in certain players' lives, I commented something like, "Man, I don't understand how you can be like that all the time." The response I got stuck with me. "Don't even try to understand it. If you can understand it you'd be one step closer to being like them." So yeah. If you're a miserable prick, that's all on you, and I'm not going to waste a second thinking about it.

I like this thread much better when its about dealers swapping stories. Not me being petty, but another dealer. The player involved is the miserable type that won't respond and expects you to read his mind, then complain when you don't immediately know which of his two braincells he was using. 4/8 limit, and the guy always buys in for $40. He gets down to 2 or 3 bucks, and peels out a $100 bill and sets it next to his chips. Now while of course it is the player's responsibility to declare an amount to add on (and in absence of such, the full bill would play) this dealer knows that he always buys $40 and she gives him a chance to help himself. "How much behind?" The player holds up 4 fingers. "Four?" The player continues to hold up 4 fingers. "Okay Four behind." So yes, the game did come to a grinding halt/argument when the dealer ruled (properly? but pettily) that it was a declaration of four dollars added on to his stack out of the $100 bill and he was now all in for that amount after partially calling the first preflop raise. She was tired of his ****.

by Quadstriker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421600#post58421600)

Congrats on 10,000 posts.One day while commiserating with another dealer about the level of misery omnipresent in certain players' lives, I commented something like, "Man, I don't understand how you can be like that all the time."The response I got stuck with me. "Don't even try to understand it. If you can understand it you'd be one step closer to being like them."So yeah. ... See full post

10,000... I had no idea. And I guess this is officially # 10,000. Here's a petty one that I'm less ashamed of and it turned out to be fairly amusing. Maybe a year ago, a kid who might have turned 21 that day and was celebrating by playing in a casino on his birthday. He's in the 3 seat and every time he places a bet or folds his hand, he barely pushes his cards/chips forward. I've thrown my back out a couple times and I have zero interest in reaching that far and I'm sure as heck not going to stand up every time, so I speak up. "Would you mind pushing your bet forward? I'd really appreciate it." The first time, the guy sitting next to him in the 4 seat pushes his chips closer to me and I thank him. The next hand, same thing. "Hey, would you push your chips closer so that I don't have to reach so far? I'd really appreciate it." After 3 or 4 requests, I realize that this kid just isn't getting it. So I start short dealing him. I'm pitching everyone else's cards right up to the rail, except for the 3 seat. I'm not even pitching the cards anywhere near him. I'm just placing his cards about 1/3 of the distance between me and the player. It's comically/obnoxiously short. And the kid in the 3 seat still doesn't get it. Without a word or a complaint, he just stands up to retrieve his cards, while the guy in the 4 seat (who's still pushing the kid's bets into my reach can barely stifle laughter.) The entire down went like this. And, yes, the kid definitely spoke perfect English. To this day, I've never seen him in the room again and I still have no idea what might have been going on in his head.

by bolt2112 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58421688#post58421688)

10,000... I had no idea. And I guess this is officially # 10,000.

Congrats! Here's to the next 10k.

Another petty revenge story I have was a tournament. There was a player who the postflop action was on him and I wasn't sure if he knew it. He was looking across the room, then staring down into his lap (maybe into his phone???? Unsure). In cash games I am pretty aggressive about letting people know the action is on them (it affects my bottom line), but even when I deal tournaments I am probably more aggressive than 99% of other dealers. Even though it doesn't directly affect my bottom line, my thoughts are that if I was a player I would prefer more hands, so as a dealer I try and get out more hands. Simple customer service. Also though I am aggressive, it is because I think that I am pretty discerning. I pay attention and I am pretty good at reading when a player is paying attention and when they are not. I know for a fact that I am more accurate with this read than most. Also, when I have to remind a player it is their turn I am always very polite and gentle about it. My go to is to say "Sir, I hate to interrupt you if you are thinking, but I just want to make sure you realize the action is on you." 99% of the time if the person is aware it is their turn they will nod and I will say "Then take your time". Anyway, back to this tournament. An early hand in my down and the player looked like he wasn't paying attention so I used my line on him. He went off. He said that he knew it was his turn and he didn't appreciate the distraction. He could have stopped there and it would have been fine, but he continued. He said that he was acutely aware of everything that goes on at the table and he didn't need me to tell him when it was his turn. He said he was more aware than any stupid dealer (his words). Ok. So I apologized to him and said I was sorry for interrupting his thinking and I will not do it again. That just seemed to set him off even more. He then says that everyone else at the table is also more aware the action than I was and that I am just a dealer so I should not say anything and just move cards and chips. I had literally just been there for a few hands and had not said a word other than to announce raises (which is room policy). I am not even sure if I said "Hello." when I sat down. Ok. Whatever. I look around the table and none of the other players want to say anything. That is fine. I am very good at customer service so I can provide exactly what is requested. For the rest of the down I do the bare minimum to control the pace of the game. I still call out all bets and raises (because it is room policy), but I do so in a very subdued manner. I don't look or gesture at players pre-flop to help them know where the action is. Play slows to a crawl. Most new dealers think that dealer speed comes from moving fast and efficiently. That helps, but only at the margins. Most of the time is spent waiting on players, not the dealer. So anything a dealer can do to help the players play faster makes a bigger difference in the number of hands dealt per down. The biggest difference between the dealers who get out the most hands per down and the ones that get out the fewest is that the faster dealers will be more active in controlling the game and moving the action along. Subtly letting players know when it is their turn will greatly speed up the game, even among experienced players. The player basically told me not to do any of that and no one else was willing to disagree so I completely stopped controlling the game. It was a tournament so I didn't personally care how many hands were dealt in my down. So the fact that action slowed to a crawl was fine by me. The cherry on the top was the very last hand of my down. The player who had the outburst was in the big blind. There was an early preflop min raise with two other late callers. Action got to him and getting great odds he called the min raise from the BB. Flop comes out and the outburst player in the BB checks. Early player bets. The next player thinks for a significant amount of time and then raises. The third player goes deep into the tank. He thinks for a very long time. It is clear he has a decent hand and wants to play but he is facing a bet and a raise before him. After a long minute or two (or three) he finally folds. Action is on the outburst guy in the Big Blind. My down is done as the next dealer taps me and I give him the down card. The Big Blind is just looking into his lap. This goes on for a minute. He finally looks up and looks around the table and then starts to look at a TV accross the room. It is quite clear that he doesn't realize that the action is on him. I don't even think he realizes he still has a hand. He folded in his mind when he checked 3 minutes ago. I am not going to say a word. He made it quite clear I was not to control the game and let him know action was on him. Malicious compliance at its best. I will sit here as long as it takes. After a long time the other players start to get uncomfortable. Every experienced poker player has an internal clock in their head on how long hands should go and we were well past that. Even if they are distracted looking at their phone they know something is off. I look around at the other players at the table and a couple of them are distressed, but none speak up. Again, I am not going to say a word. It it quite clear that the outburst player doesn't know it is his action. I start to wonder why the other players won't speak up. Do they not care about slow play? Are they not paying attention? Are they afraid of setting this guy off? It goes on long enough that even the dealer waiting to tap me out is getting agitated. He can see the action on the table but doesn't know what is going on. He just knows it has been a long while since he tapped me. We sit there for quite a few minutes. Finally another player calls for a clock. He doesn't speak up to the outburst player, he just calls clock. I call out "Clock table XX." to a floor. The distracted player looks up to see what is happening, but it doesn't register with him that the clock has been called on him. The floor comes over and I verbally describe the action to the floor without making it physically obvious who the action is on. The floor then asks the standard question if the player has had long enough to act. I loudly say that he has had at least 5 minutes to act and probably longer (no exaggeration). The floor then looks at the outburst player and tells him that he has 30 seconds to act on his hand. He is clearly surprised that he still has a hand so he quickly folds. It literally took at least 5 minutes and a floor call for this guy to wake up to the fact that he had a hand. Being petty, I was going to let it go as long as it took. I wasn't going to do anything. The longer it took the happier I was. I was amazed that not a single player at the table said anything either. I don't know if it was because of fear of outburst guy or if they genuinely didn't care. A player literally had to call clock rather than tell him that the action was clearly on him. It was the best 5 minutes I spent staring off into space. It literally made my day.

had no clue they passed :( RIP YTF by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58383708#post58383708)

It was about this time of year, just before YTF passed away, that I had the good fortune to meet him when passing through the Twin Cities. I've started dealing in a bar-poker league. When there's a full house, I announce it as "most of the X, and half of the Y" in memory of YTF. Good guy, hope his family is doing well.

My final malicious compliance story is still a fantasy. I totally want to act on it, but to date I haven't had the guts. We have a regular who sits in seat 9. He regularly folds early because he is on his phone/tablet. The other problem is that his folds consist of pushing his cards millimeters forward. I am sure he does it because he doesn't want to clearly fold out of turn, he just wants to do it subtly. Of course, the problem is when the action starts on the other side of the table. The action gets around to him and his cards looks like they are pushed a couple of millimeters forward and he is looking at a tablet. I am 95%+ sure he means to fold, but I think those are terrible guessing odds on whether to kill a hand or not. When tapping into a table and I see him in seat 9, I always resolve that I am just going to take his unprotected cards whenever it is his turn no matter what, but then when it happens in real time, I chicken out. As a dealer, I absolutely abhor making myself part of the action and inserting myself into the action. So whenever the action gets to him and I am unsure, I always clarify if he is folding. As a player, I would rather have a dealer clarify a fold rather than take my cards blindly so I try and extend the courtesy to players. Better to ask than not. To his credit he has never outright said anything negative or confrontational to me asking if he is folding, but he regularly makes it a big deal. He will often sigh or roll his eyes and make it seem like it is a stupid question. Furthermore, (and here is the catch), he will occasionally get engrossed in whatever is on his phone/tablet and not realize it is a new hand and he has new cards. So often enough me asking if he is folding will surprise him and he will quickly look at his cards. Not too often, but just often enough that it renders assumptions dangerous. I dream of just sitting down one time and taking his cards every time action gets to him, butbi just haven't been able to do it yet. One day.

What do the other Dealers do with him? It's very hard to believe that no one has at least started to muck a holding and he's had to jump into action to stay in the hand. Is it more of a 'I want it to happen' or 'I want to do it myself'? Could be both .. GL

Jim L, you can live vicariously through me. At my first casino we had this real jerk who was a total dick to everyone, dealers, floor, players, etc. No matter what seat he was in he would always push his cards three inches forward when folding and then get all pissy when you prompted him for action. After awhile he used a card protector and his "signal to fold" was removing his card protector. And by removing it I mean have it sitting next to his cards almost touching and of course when you verified he got all pissy. At least once a down I would thank the table for properly folding their hands in a sarcastic tone, most of the times the players would pick up on that and laugh. Well one day he is playing tournament and sitting in seat five so I am hoping to make my move at some point. About halfway through the down he has his card protector sitting next to his cards and is on his phone and when the action got to him I mucked them as he wanted. Seat seven makes a call and then all of a sudden he throws in chips for a raise and a second later, "Where are my cards?!?!" I told him you had your card protector next to the cards and you always say that is a fold. Totally expecting an argument to break out, he calmly says, "Your right" and goes back on his phone. I finally figured him out not too long afterwards, he was basically a bully. He would bark at everyone but the second anyone barked back he whimpered away with his tail between his legs. So from then on when he would be a jerk, I'd be a jerk right back. A year or so later he actually told me I was one of the best dealers in the room. Im sure it was a backhanded compliment but we tolerated each other for the most part.

Unfortunately there are personalities out there that 'naturally' just need to know where your line is .. and will test you until you/they find it. We had a guy like that in a place I worked and I would just go and tell all the new employees 'exactly' what was going to happen so they would be prepared. Pretty much all of them were thankful of the heads-up. My gut feeling is that this person's golf clubs, dog or other had to absorb any excess energy that was pent up from not being able to pressure co-workers. GL

Not sure which category this falls under but I found it amusing. I've heard it's changed, but the WSOP used to be very strict about attendance. You could not request a day off. The only thing you can do is call in that day and take a point. Late even 1 minute is 1/2 point. 4 points and you're done for the year. I took advantage of one obvious loophole - when I was a few or even 10 minutes late I would just not clock in and sign in saying my badge didn't work. As long as I was there by the time my name was called it was fine. Another dealer, let's call him Steve, took it further. Steve already had 2 points and needed to take the weekend off for his sister's wedding. He asked the boss but was told there are no exceptions. Come to work or you're done for the year. So Steve used another rule - get caught not taking rake in a cash game and it was an automatic 2 (or 3? I forget) day suspension and final notice. So the day before the wedding he volunteered to deal cash. Each table he went to he announced that for the next 30 minutes there would be no rake and told them why. The players got a kick out of it and tipped like crazy. After his 4th or 5th table Steve finally got pulled out and given papers saying he had to take the weekend off.

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58446627#post58446627)

Not sure which category this falls under but I found it amusing.I've heard it's changed, but the WSOP used to be very strict about attendance. You could not request a day off. The only thing you can do is call in that day and take a point. Late even 1 minute is 1/2 point. 4 points and you're done for the year.I took advantage of one obvious loophole - when I was a few or even 1... See full post

that story belongs in the wsop hall of fame.. thanks for the laugh

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58446627#post58446627)

Not sure which category this falls under but I found it amusing.I've heard it's changed, but the WSOP used to be very strict about attendance. You could not request a day off. The only thing you can do is call in that day and take a point. Late even 1 minute is 1/2 point. 4 points and you're done for the year.I took advantage of one obvious loophole - when I was a few or even 1... See full post

Good stuff. I wish companies were run more logically where employees wouldn't have to game the system to get even basic decency.

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58446627#post58446627)

Not sure which category this falls under but I found it amusing.I've heard it's changed, but the WSOP used to be very strict about attendance. You could not request a day off. The only thing you can do is call in that day and take a point. Late even 1 minute is 1/2 point. 4 points and you're done for the year.I took advantage of one obvious loophole - when I was a few or even 1... See full post

This isn't poker, but it is casino related. A really long time ago (early 1990's), I was a craps box person/floorperson. The place I was working was way understaffed. Ridiculously. I was working 6 days a week with overtime most of those days. I was literally thus close to quitting. We all were. So my sister gets pregnant and has a baby. It is literally the first of that generation in my extended family. It is a huge deal. My nephew is born and my sister asks me to be the godfather of the child. She is going to have a baptism ceremony in 6 weeks. I go into work and talk to the scheduler and explain that in 6 weeks I will need this Saturday off for the Christening. She tells me no problem. So every week, I make it a mission to talk to the scheduler to insure I will have that particular Saturday off. I make sure she understands that I don't care how much I work the rest of the week. I need that day off. Weeks go by and I continue to bug her. She regularly says I will be off. The schedule comes out, I am scheduled to work that Saturday. I go to her and question why. She says that we are jammed and she cannot afford to keep anyone off of the schedule. I literally tell her I will not be showing up that day. This is too important to my family. So that Saturday comes, I call into work and say I cannot come in. I go to the Christening. Sunday I go into work and the shift manager calls me into his office. He tells me he is writing me up because I called off. Not just called off, but basically told the scheduler in advance I was going to call off. He says this was insubordination. He says we left them short staffed. I immediately know I have the upper hand. He has already told me his weakness. I carefully explained what happened. I explained why I needed the day off. I explained why it was of utmost importance that I was there for my God child. I explain6that I gave 6 weeks notice and checked in each week. I tried my hardest to make it easy for everyone involved. He said it did not matter. I hurt the company by leaving them short staffed. He was giving me a write up that consisted of a warning. Basically it meant the next time I called in I would be under review and would be subject to being fired. I looked him in the eye and told him that I wasn't signing it. Furthermore, if there was any blowback from this, I was quitting. They were ridiculously short staffed. If I quit it would seriously hurt them. I gave them a 6 week notice for a single day off and it hurt them. People worked overtime. Whatever. He tried some more bluster, but we both knew that it did not matter. I didn't care. I was already at the point I was considering quitting. I literally asked him if he wanted a staffing problem now or later. After it was clear I was serious, I tried softening the blow. I explained that I didn't want to be a problem, but family was far more important than this job. I would do everything in my power to make both work, but priorities were what they were. I said that I wanted to be a team player, but that it works both ways. After some back and forth I left his office without signing the write up that I believe was torn up as I never saw any repercussions. However, it should be noted I quit the company within 2 months. This was back in the 1990's when job security was different. However it was the best thing I have ever done. It is one of my trigger points when an employee tries their hardest to work with their employer, but is made to feel like a slacker/traitor. Employment is a two way street. Always.

Vacation Request Form? Communicating with said Shift Manager as much as HR? ("I'm so looking forward to seeing my nephew this Saturday!") I think you more than went out of your way to insure that you showed concern for and communicated with your employer. I've never really worked for a 'huge' organization but I've heard plenty of similar stories where the trees blocked the forest. Buddy of mine had to fight for 'return' air fare reimbursement because he stayed a couple of extra days in a city he went to for work. All paperwork and approvals were done ahead of time, but the HR person dug in .. saying he needed to return 'as scheduled' on the job order. Luckily my buddy had anticipated an issue and showed her .. and her boss .. that he had actually saved the company almost $200 by taking the later flight AND one night in a hotel that would've been required while 'waiting' for the original flight time/date. HR girl saw it as 'a favor' and didn't want to deal with other employees going down that path wanting their favor, thus 'complicating' her workload. GL PS .. no Christmas cards were exchanged before or after as a result of this situation.

Question that occurred to me. Setting is a free bar poker league, but we try to follow TDA. I've noticed that sometimes when announcing a bet, I'll add "x more". For example, let's say blinds are 1k/2k, and button goes to 3700. I might say to SB, "3700 now, 2700 more." Occurred to me that saying the "more" part might be giving player information I shouldn't (i.e., it's up to them to do the math).

1. Should I consciously drop that from my phrasing?
2. If a player asks, "how much more?", should I tell them, or just something like "the total is Y?" I see in RP-12 that dealers should announce bets and raises: [QUOTE=TDA]Dealers should routinely announce non-all-in bet values as betting proceeds around the table. All-in bets will be counted only on request of the player currently facing action. Accepted action continues to apply (Rule 49). Scheduled and discretionary color-ups improve bet countability.[/QUOTE] Rule 49 is accepted action, which doesn't really talk about this specifically. Seems like a pretty minor thing, but is it something I should clean up?

I don't consider it too big of a deal given the venue, similar to when I deal 1/2 NLH I'm probably saying a little more than at 5/10 NLH. But I'd say it's worth cleaning up. For one thing, let's say CO raises, your amount "more" will be different for the next 3 players to act, saying only the amount allows for little to no confusion. For question 2) I will generally say "The total is Y, X more to you". Haven't had a complaint in years dealing in poker rooms but it may be wrong IDK.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58474287#post58474287)

Seems like a pretty minor thing, but is it something I should clean up?

There are some here who seem to think giving a player any information violates OPTAH. I disagree with them. A lot. To the point that I think they are being idiots. That said, I think you can do better. I think just announcing the reraise is enough. No need to announce the difference unless someone asks. It isn't terrible, but let the player figure out the difference. This normally doesn't matter, but in extreme circumstances it can matter. Blinds are $300/$600. Inital raise to $2000. A call. Next player raises to $3400. Everyone folds to the inital raiser. Declaring the bet to him as $3400 is different than saying it is a min raise of $1400. Like I said, you are not playing the players hand, but you might be influencing the action, if he is more likely to call "only $1400 more" as opposed to a reraise of $3400, despite them being the exact same thing then you are influencing the game. That said, a dealer has to balance talking about game state versus the speed of the game. Part of a dealers responsibility is making sure the game runs smoothly. If this means doing the math for a player at a low limit game/tournament to keep the game moving, then so be it. It is a balancing act with lots of grey. Good luck. The default should always just calling out the amount of the raise unless you really think doing the math will help the game along.

My thoughts are Dealers should only work as hard as they need to given the table dynamic. If you feel the urge to do something to keep the game flow on point then do it. In this case here it's best to just give the bet total and let the Player ask for additional details. The 'more' part could offer information about reopening the action. While this should be no secret, it shouldn't be offered for free unless you have a Player who always asks anyway .. again, keep the game moving. I like "Raise to X total" or "Now X" .. although the 'now' is something you hear at auctions and may induce action! GL

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58474895#post58474895)

That said, I think you can do better. I think just announcing the reraise is enough. No need to announce the difference unless someone asks. It isn't terrible, but let the player figure out the difference.

Would you handle it differently for a player who always asks "how much more?" when action gets to him?

by madlex m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58475129#post58475129)

Would you handle it differently for a player who always asks "how much more?" when action gets to him?

Seems he was pretty clear.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58474895#post58474895)

No need to announce the difference unless someone asks.

by Didace m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58475136#post58475136)

Seems he was pretty clear.

I'm asking if he would tell the player immediately to speed up the game instead of waiting for him to ask.

Thanks for the thoughts, guys. Your input is, obviously, the direction I thought I needed to go.

Anyone looking for a change? I hear Milwaukee is nice on June 23rd .. sunrise over the lake part of the world .. The casino there .. Potawatomi .. has posted 'all' jobs for the reopening of their poker room (14 tables). This is very welcome and much delayed since the CV shutdown. This room was 20 tables and hosted two WSOPc and four MSPT events on top of their own fairly aggressive weekend tournament scene. Not sure what their short and long term goals are but this area is poker crazy. While Rivers near O'Hare AP in Chicago pretty much rules the 'Bravo' roost I'd expect this room to take off quite well .. and you can always keep your eye on Bally's in downtown Chicago as to when they will open their room (eventually). GL PS .. If you go to the Potawatomi Casino venue forume there's a link there

I've made a 180 regarding giving answers to player questions when it comes to clarifying the action. Player A bets 100. Player B raises to 250. Player C goes all-in for 320. Player A asks "If I call, can Player B re-raise?" Years ago I would refuse to answer. I've had this conversation with several dealers and floors whose opinion I respect and now I just answer the question. Player A bets 285. Player B raises to 950. Player A asks, how much more is it to call? I wouldn't answer in the past. Now I just give the number in the interest of customer service and keeping the game moving.

by bolt2112 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476985#post58476985)

Player A bets 285. Player B raises to 950. Player A asks, how much more is it to call? I wouldn't answer in the past. Now I just give the number in the interest of customer service and keeping the game moving.

I wonder if that's addressed in the written guidelines in poker rooms and/or handled differently in different gaming jurisdictions? Would be interested to hearing dealers/floors input on that. Maybe 10 years ago I saw a dispute about that in one of the biggest poker rooms in Vegas and talked to the poker room manager about it a couple days later. He told me there weren't any rules specific to poker that go against what authorities require for them in the rest of the casino: When action is on a customer they always have the right to know how much (additional) money they have to wager to be able to continue.

What's your opinion on this? Player A bets, Player B raises, action back to player A, Player A asks for the bets to be brought in. Dealer does so, and breaks down the amount of B's raise in a clear way. Afterwards, dealer will only tell player A the total rather than the amount more, citing the amount more is clearly broken down & visible. Spoiler Show

I kind of agree with it. If player A wants to "see" the amount more it is by bringing in bets, then I kind of don't get why he should be told the amount too. Also, this is not hypothetical/theory crafting, this actually happened while I was playing in Texas a few years ago

Telling a player the amount is not helping them play better. It is saying what he owes to continue. In what other world do we think it's OK to obfuscate what is owed or how much something costs? It has always been a ridiculous argument to me that saying a bet, when requested, is somehow violating OPTAH. There is also a clear difference between saying, "fifteen" and "just fifteen", so how it is said by the dealer is important before we derail down that track. Having said that, the info on how much without extra words or commentary is fine. by madlex m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58477098#post58477098)

I wonder if that's addressed in the written guidelines in poker rooms and/or handled differently in different gaming jurisdictions? Would be interested to hearing dealers/floors input on that.Maybe 10 years ago I saw a dispute about that in one of the biggest poker rooms in Vegas and talked to the poker room manager about it a couple days later. He told me there weren't any rul... See full post

Our room, and all rooms in my area that I have been to / am aware of, allow the answer to the question of how much more. The only issue that has come up is when a dealer miscounts, but the correct amount is still owed.

by Thamel18 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58477125#post58477125)

What's your opinion on this? Player A bets, Player B raises, action back to player A, Player A asks for the bets to be brought in. Dealer does so, and breaks down the amount of B's raise in a clear way. Afterwards, dealer will only tell player A the total rather than the amount more, citing the amount more is clearly broken down & visible.... See full post

My opinion is that this is insanely petty and makes no sense.

by madlex m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58475129#post58475129)

Would you handle it differently for a player who always asks "how much more?" when action gets to him?

I know my answer is going to be a wishy-washy non-answer, but it really depends. What are the stakes? What is the mood of the table? What is the dynamic between all of the players? Etc. If it is a low limit game on a Friday night with everyone drinking and laughing and otherwise helping the asking player anyway? Then of course it is a no brainer, keeping the game moving and not affecting the mood is far more important than the miniscule chance my words affect his decision. Especially if there is a decent chance another player will help him out otherwise. If it is the final table of a huge tournament where everyone is silent. I am notnsaying a word unless asked. Obviously those are extremes, but they are an example of the factors involved. That said, the various factors can have different weights at different times. I have dealt in a very high limit cash game, but everyone was having fun and playing silly side games and there was one player who couldn't keep up with the action (he was obviously the whale/fish at the game). It was in everyone's interest at the game for me to help him do the math and keep the game moving without him asking. Like I said, it depends on lots of factors. And they can mean different things at different tables. That said, the default should always be to announce the raise and only do the math if asked. You should have a reason to deviate from this standard.

I should also say that there have been times in my dealing life where I have deviated from the standard and openly volunteered the amount of the raise and regretted it later. Put another way, I was wrong to do so. It is a very fine grey line that requires judgment.

I think this is great discussion because it highlights the difference between bad dealers, good dealers, and great dealers. Bad dealers announce the amount of the raise almost all of the time not even realizing they shouldn't be doing it. Good dealers always announce the amount the action is raised to without ever announcing the raise amount unless asked. Great dealers recognize that this is one of those areas where they can bend procedure rules in the name of keeping the game moving. It depends. There are lots of very good dealers who follow procedure to a T. I have no argument with them. However, the next level is understanding why the procedure is written the way it is and when it can be bent without violating the spirit of the procedures for the betterment of the game.

Tournament .. open a table of ALL alternates .. not all of them have arrived as of yet ..

1. How many Players have to sit before starting to deal?
2. Do you start to blind all the stacks off or allow (an amount of) time for the others to arrive? GL

3. Call floor, follow their instructions? Of the first two, I guess it's situation-dependent. There does need to be a reasonable amount of time for players to gather. However, I'm not sure what the definition of 'reasonable' is. Depending on room size, maybe five minutes-ish? At some point, it's players' responsibility to pay attention. Once we start, I'm blinding players' stacks in, if I've been so instructed.

A Floor was actually opening the table in this particular case .. so we take that option away There's more to this that I'm leaving out, but I just wanted to know how other rooms handle their stacks. My assumption is that most rooms blind off stacks that are paid for before the tournament starts .. and perhaps even an alternates stack is in play as soon as they are called. But this particular case of opening a table of all alternates created some dust. Small room (10 tables) .. no firm precedent on 'stacks in play' or 'reasonable' wait time. They will Bravo text AND call Player phone directly if time allows. Has skipped over an alternate who wasn't in the tournament area when they were called and just left them at the top of the alternate list as well. GL

Every room I have ever worked in had policies for these questions. Granted, some of these policies were loosely enforced and often bent, but there were policies. For example, every room I worked in had a policy that tournament tables started when at least 4 (or 5 in another room) were present. That policy was often bent when it was clear that a couple other players were on their way (a good dealer would stretch out the prep time to allow the stragglers to make it in time). That said, I am surprised that the room opened a new table with all alternates. Most rooms I have seen, if it is beyond the first level or two, any new table is opened by taking existing players from other tables and moving them (maybe sprinkling in a few alternates), and then making alternates sit I the already running games. Same for blinding off registered players who are not present, rooms should have a policy. I have seen this policy vary widely though. I dealt in a room where absent players stacks were put into play only if there was an alternate list (or once registration closed). I have been in other rooms where absent players were given a 10 minute grace period and then their stack was put into play. At this room the policy was not always strictly enforced. Sometimes the floor was busy. Every room is different, but each room should also have policies in place to handle these questions.

I had a hilarious situation today. There is a player who I wouldn't call a regular, but he is a long time irregular player. He will show up and play 3 or 4 days a week for a month, then we won't see him for a month or two. He is literally in contention for one of the 5 nicest humans I have ever met. He is always very gracious and friendly to everyone around him. He never gets mad at anyone, even if a dealer screws up and messes up his hand he is polite to them and half blames himself. He always is helpful to other players even to his detriment. Oppenents can suck out on him with the most ridiculous calls and he is always gracious and happy for them. Literally a really nice human. One of the best. He reminds he of Greg Raymer. That nice of a person. He is also a pretty decent poker player. Certainly a long time winner. Physically, he is about 5'7" and at least 375, probably 400 pounds if not more. He is so obese that it is hard to estimate his weight. If he said he was 500 pounds I would believe it. This matters later. It is a $1/$3 table and he is in seat 5 directly accross from me. Normally he plays $2/$5 or $5/$10, but for some reason he was at $1/$3. Maybe he was waiting for an open seat, maybe he didn't bring much money. I don't know. So partially through my down there is a big hand. It is three bet pre-flop but still three or four players see the flop. Action continues postflop. Pot gets to be huge. Well over $1000. Probably $1300 or $1400. On the river there are only two players left. Seat 9 checks the river, seat 4 bets a decent amount, seat 9 shoves. Seat 4 only has to call maybe $200 (onto a huge $1300 or $1400 pot). He goes into the tank. It is obvious he has a good hand and therefore it should be an easy call just because the size of the pot, but it also looks like he is probably beat. He thinks a really long time. Well over two minutes. Everyone sits quietly at the table while he thinks. Everyone knows it is a big spot. Especially for the stakes. The protagonist (who is not in the hand) decides he is going to leave to table. The table is crowded, not just because he is a big boy, but there are all sorts of drink tables, the player in seat 2 has his girlfriend behind him, etc. It is a tight table. Seat 5 pushes his chair straight back and starts to stand up. While standing up he lets out a really long and loud fart. At least 10 seconds. It reminded me of the story about Andre the Giant farting when filming Princess Bride. https://www.snopes.com/articles/349106/a... (https://www.snopes.com/articles/349106/andre-the-giant-16-second-fart/) Everyone at the table was quiet for about 15 or 20 seconds. Everyone is trying to confirm they heard what they think they heard. The poor guy wanted to shrink and hide and pretend it was not him, but he was dead to rights. Everyone heard it, it was obvious. So he did the best he could and started apologizing to everyone at the table. So of course everyone at the table breaks out in laughter. Loud public farts are never not funny. He is such a nice person that everyone tries not to laugh, or at least hide their laughter, but no one is successful. The whole table is giggling like 15 year old boys. Even I am, I try and be professional, but it is impossible. The guy apologizes again, the laughter sort of slows down, but never really stops, people are trying to be polite, but everyone is sort of snickering. There is a little older Asian lady in seat 7, she says "That was a good one!" That opened the floodgates. Everyone broke down and openly starts laughing loudly. Half the table is crying from laughing so hard. It was made worse because no one WANTED to be laughing. No one could help it. This goes on for a while, I couldn't tell you how long because I was laughing so hard. My eyes were watering. Probably a other minute or so. Everytime someone tried to gain control of themselves it just made them lose it that much more. Eventually the guy in seat 4 who is still sort of laughing pushes his cards forward and openly says he is folding. He says he has no idea if he is good or bad, but he cannot think because he is laughing too much. While openly laughing, I slowly collect the cards, and push the pot to seat 9. For the whole rest of the down, everyone would calm down and play would be normal, but suddenly one person would start giggling and the whole table would break out. I don't think I dealt more that 12 hands or so that down, but it was easily one of the best downs I ever dealt. Farts. Always funny.

I also had a crappy tournament down. There is a trend lately of tournament players going almost all in, but leaving themselves a chip behind because of "reasons". So the blinds are $200/$400. There is some raising and betting. Action gets to the river heads up. A player bets, his opponent moves all of his chips forward except the one $100 chip he leaves covering his cards. I count down the bet and announce the raise. The original better thinks a long time whike tanking. The almost all in player starts to question my count. He wonders why his extra $100 chip is not included in the count. I explain that he didn't move it forward with the rest of his chips. He gets justifiably angry. He thinks he is all in. While we are talking about it, his opponent says "call". Almost all in player shows and wins. He then starts arguing me over the $100. I explain to him that he didn't announce all in and he left the $100 chip behind when he shoved his chips forward so technically he wasn't all in. He then argued with me and said it was stupid and no one would leave $100 behind. I explained what the rules were and this was not satisfactory for him. He again tried to argue that no one would leave $100 behind. My mistake was trying to argue that lots kf people leave 1 chip behind. It blew up from there. I am torn like 8 ways in this. Yes. I completely understand his intention. I also know the rules. Furthermore I know that leaving one chip behind has been the latest trend so I cannot make any assumptions about what his intention was. Worst of all, he got tilted and we were arguing over a $100 chip at the $200/$400 level. It was highly (massively) unlikely that this $100 chip was going to make a difference in his results . It was a situation where following the rules sucked compared to using my brain and figuring out intention, especially given recent trends.

You didn't do anything wrong, and the player was not justifiably angry, he was being a douche. He also may have been angle shooting. If he had lost the hand, I bet he wouldn't be throwing a fit trying to give his last chip to the other guy.

by bolt2112 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58476985#post58476985)

I've made a 180 regarding giving answers to player questions when it comes to clarifying the action.Player A bets 100. Player B raises to 250. Player C goes all-in for 320. Player A asks "If I call, can Player B re-raise?" Years ago I would refuse to answer. I've had this conversation with several dealers and floors whose opinion I respect and now I just answer the question.Pla... See full post

I never had a problem answering either of these questions and didn't know it was very controversial.

by answer20 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58478775#post58478775)

Tournament .. open a table of ALL alternates .. not all of them have arrived as of yet ..

1. How many Players have to sit before starting to deal?

2. Do you start to blind all the stacks off or allow (an amount of) time for the others to arrive? GL

3. Room dependent.

4. If a seat is sold, and you have the chips for it, you should deal them in. The floor should have given the alternates enough time to check in (if not, that's a floor issue). Of course you wait until your floor says you can deal.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58480752#post58480752)

I also had a crappy tournament down. There is a trend lately of tournament players going almost all in, but leaving themselves a chip behind because of "reasons".So the blinds are $200/$400. There is some raising and betting. Action gets to the river heads up. A player bets, his opponent moves all of his chips forward except the one $100 chip he leaves covering his cards. I cou... See full post

Had the biggest $hit show at work today over players leaving a few chips behind when they almost go all in. Player in seat two and player in seat seven get involved in a tournament hand. It gets to the river and there is about $15,000 in the pot. Seat two checks, seat seven bets about $3500. Seat two then puts in a large stack of chips that looks to be ~$24,000 or so. It is close to all of his chips. When he puts the chips forward I get a glimpse of a single $1000 chip he left behind, but I am not sure. It could be a card protector or something else. Furthermore, the player in seat two leans forward and crosses his arms covering the area in front of him. I cannot see if he has any chips left. I start moving my head around trying to get a better view to see if he is all in. I just want to know if I should put out the all in button or if I should count down his bet and announce it without being asked. I finally see a chip still behind his arms so I start to count down his bet. At the same time, the player in seat seven takes approximately half a stack of $5000 chips and puts it forward of the line, but doesn't release them. I am not sure how many chips seat seven put forward. Gun to my head I am guessing $45,000 or $50,000, but it was fast and his hand was on it the whole time so it was hard to see clearly. It could have been $35,000 or it could have been $60,000. I don't know. Seat two immediately turns over his cards revealing two pair, seat seven then turns over his cards revealing a straight. Seat seven then pulls his ~1/2 a stack of $5000 chips back and puts them with the rest of his $5000 chips. I try to tell him to stop, but he continues and says he has the other player covered. There are a few issues here. Seat two raised the bet of $3500 to about $24,000 (I never got to count). When seat 7 put his partial stack of $5000 chips forward was it a call or a raise? It depends upon the amount he put forward. Furthermore, by turning over his cards, did seat two accept the action of calling the potential raise with his few remaining chips. Seat 7 genuinely thought seat 2 was all in and he was calling. But he probably put enough chips forward to constitute a raise, but never released them. Seat two immediately turned over his cards causing seat 7 to turn over his cards thinkingbhe beat the all in of seat two. A mess. I immediately call the floor. The floor is a very good floor. Easily one of the best in the industry. However this is not a cut and dried situation. There is more than a few points of contention in both players actions. I think a floor could rule many different ways here and all of them defensible. I even think outside factors (such as the reputation of each player) should factor in. Of course seat two insisted that the other player only called and he should still have $1100 behind (it turns out there was a $100 chip left back in addition to the $1000 chip). Of course seat seven insisted seat two was all in. A huge mess.

I also have a question. Why are players pretending to go all in but intentionally leaving a couple of chips behind against someone who has you covered? I am trying to figure out the advantage of doing this? Why are so many players doing this? I am not talking about raising and putting in a large portion of your stack, but still leaving yourself 15 or 20 bbs behind. I understand there are reasons to do that on rare occasions. I am talking about a player putting in 95% of their stack as a raise and leaving 2 bbs behind (or less). The only thing I can think of is that it isn't strategic, it is for a story. Only have two bbs and come back to cash and you have a good story. Am I missing something strategically? Maybe it is only my area, but the move has seemed to happen a lot more lately. More and more players are doing this and I am trying to figure why because it is making my job much harder.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58488039#post58488039)

Am I missing something strategically?

I'm not saying it's a sensible strategy, but people do nonsense things all the time... Only thing coming to mind is that a player might want to add-on for less than an allowed buy-in if they were felted.

This happens here and there in tournaments I deal, so I'm gonna imagine myself in a tournament with 10 big blinds. Whether I open shove 10 BB, or open to ~8 BB I'm obviously committed to the hand. If I open to 8 BB, people may see that I don't have an all-in button in front of me and assume my hand/range is stronger than if I shoved. Even a perceptive person may not take the time to see my stack is super short, especially if I'm covering up my play area with my arms, which I personally consider angling.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58488006#post58488006)

A huge mess.

If that's becoming a frequent issue you might have to talk to management about it and ask them how you're supposed to handle it from the moment seat 2 moves his chips forward. If there's a clear framework how to deal with a situation where it's unclear if a player is all-in or not (which kinda defeats the purpose of the all-in button) that all dealers in the room follow, you don't have to worry about players singling you out for addressing the situation immediately. For example by asking them if they're all in and reminding them that all chips need to be visible at all times if they're not all-in.

Think it's a bit icm related a bit big blind ante related a bit whimsical and a bit mimicking other people doing it. I've done it and stalled for a 1kish pay jump. Seems like the player should keep the 1100 but whatever.

There's zero advantage to leave minimal chips behind in cash .. except maybe .. You don't have to show first if the V shoves and a call is made. I do this quite often to see what I was up against and while most of the Players know I could have 'anything' I still don't like to show unless I have to. My understanding is that you can't add-on for less than the table min, but I could be wrong. Any 'adjustment' to a stack must be within the table stakes. You can play with a stack less than table min, but only once you've started 'legally'. Again, my understanding and I am aware that some casinos allow one short buy between 'full' buys. GL

There are circumstances where it makes sense to leave one chip behind. Bounty event, multi way pot. You're encouraging someone to raise rather than just call, which could put you heads up. Near a pay jump you can lose the hand but still hang around for a while. You can try to run that one chip up if you lose. Big blind antes actually make it easier to climb back up if you are in position. Wait for a decent starting hand then guaranteed 1BB plus several times the small chip if you win. In a cash game, many rooms let you short buy as long as you have at least one chip still in play. I know a couple of serial offenders of this move. Not saying that any of these make it profitable to do it, just that some people might think it's a good strategy. That, or they simply find it amusing.

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58490323#post58490323)

In a cash game, many rooms let you short buy as long as you have at least one chip still in play. I know a couple of serial offenders of this move.

For limit games where I play this is useful for my short buys.

I mean, he left chips behind and he never said all in. This is cut and dry

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58488006#post58488006)

Had the biggest $hit show at work today over players leaving a few chips behind when they almost go all in.Player in seat two and player in seat seven get involved in a tournament hand. It gets to the river and there is about $15,000 in the pot. Seat two checks, seat seven bets about $3500. Seat two then puts in a large stack of chips that looks to be ~$24,000 or so. It is clos... See full post

As described, push the pot to seat 7 and seat 2 plays on with $1100. Seat 7 can insist all he wants but seat 2 never put out the final $1100. Seat 2 never said call of a raise by seat 7. Seat 7 never said raise nor provided dealer a chance to count and confirm a raise (plus here it is released chips that bet/play not carried ones, but that is here). And seat 2 never said all in. It is seat 7 responsibility (protect ones hand means more than putting a chip on them) to know the action or ask for clarification. Simply put, seat 2 never did anything to put the final $1100 in play. Now if floor wants to impose a penalty on seat 2 for exposing his hand prematurely, fine. But you can't put him all in.

by answer20 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58489371#post58489371)

There's zero advantage to leave minimal chips behind in cash .. except maybe .. You don't have to show first if the V shoves and a call is made. I do this quite often to see what I was up against and while most of the Players know I could have 'anything' I still don't like to show unless I have to.My understanding is that you can't add-on for less than the table min, but I coul... See full post

anywhere I have played you can add on for any amount. Why would the house prevent a $1 add on? A rebuy means you are consuming a seat that would otherwise be available. But a tiny add on doesn't change the seat consumption, you were already consuming that seat for at least one more hand with or w/o the addon.

by Fore m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58491266#post58491266)

anywhere I have played you can add on for any amount. Why would the house prevent a $1 add on? A rebuy means you are consuming a seat that would otherwise be available. But a tiny add on doesn't change the seat consumption, you were already consuming that seat for at least one more hand with or w/o the addon.

I agree it's a silly rule, but I have played in places with that rule.

I was playing, not dealing, but I haven't quite an an implosion as I saw last night in a long time. It was a $1/$2 game with a max $500 buy in. This guy had ~$4800 in front of him. I was only at the table a very short time so I don't even really know how good of player this guy normally was. All I know is that he lit that $4800 on fire in about 20 minutes. I sit down at the table, first hand the arsonist gets involved with a new player who had just sat down a few hands before me. New player has ~$500. It gets to the turn, about $100 on the pot. Arsonist checks, New Player pauses for a bit and sort of touches the table, but to me, it was clear he wasn't checking. He was adjusting himself in his seat and his hand hit the table. Dealer didn't see it as a check either and continued to look at the player. Arsonist immediately goes off on the dealer and insisted the player checked. Player immediately says he did not check and was thinking. Dealer calls over the floor. Floor comes over and asks what is going on. Dealer explains that he was waiting on the new player and that thr Arsonist insisted the new player checked. The dealer explained that he didn't see it that way and that the new player said he hadn't acted yet. The floor is quiet and starts thing for a second. This gives the Arsonist an opening. He insists that everyone at the table saw the new player check. So I immediately speak up and say I didn't think the player checked. I couple of other players murmer in agreement with me. Not to toot my own horn, but most of the floor people at this place know me and know that I am serious when it comes to rule calls. If I am saying the new player has not yet checked and the dealer is saying the same thing (and at least two or three other players are nodding in agreement), the floor knows the new player did not check. He rules the new player can still act. The new player bets $80. The Arsonist is pissed off. He really wanted the other player to check. He argues with the floor. The floor doesn't budge. So he slams his chips down and starts mumbling. He is clearly not happy. Finally after a really long time of him mumbling and pouting, he says that he is all in. The New Player immediately calls and turns over top set. Arsonist lifts his cards a bit but doesn't turn them over. The river comes and is a blank. The Arsonist throws hia cards forcefully forward facedown. Later the players next to him said that he had a flush draw that missed. He doubles up the new player, so $500 of his stack is gone. It is still clear that he is absolutely 100% pissed off. Next hand he throws in a chunk of chips as a raise to open. It turns out to be $40. No one calls and he collects the blinds. He does the same thing the following hand, only this time someone reraises him. He thinks and then angrily folds. Next hand he raises again with a chunk of chips ($45). A player reraises to $100 and The Arsonist shoves. Player calls and tables QQ . It holds and the Arsonist doubles him up (maybe $350). Over the next few hands he keeps raising and getting called/reraised and losing. Literally within one rotation, he loses the full $4800 (2400 big blinds). Unfortunately I got zero of it. It was amazing to see someone lose what was probably 40% of the chips at the table in 7 or 8 hands.

($4800) in 20 minutes at 1/2 is an inferno. I don't even see how it's possible. But hey, it sounds like the guy had fun, and that's all that matters.

It's a bit silly .. but we do have some 1/2 match tables in our area. It's just like a PLO table that's been open for hours .. the blinds mean nothing. You'd think V would win or take down 1-2 pots per orbit to slow the fall unless these 'heroes' just weren't folding any pair and crossing fingers and everything fell into place. GL

The first week my previous room opened I sit down at a $1/2 table and seat 1 loses a couple hundred the first hand I dealt. He says "You F-ing piece of S- dealers should all be F-ing shot!" I say something like you need to watch what you say, I didn't come in here to have someone threatening my life. I do this rather than calling the floor because I figure he'll either apologize and be fine or keep going and I can get him kicked out. He does neither. He sits there silently with the ~800 he has left and spends the next 3 hands lighting it on fire. Then he continues to sit there for the next 15 minutes. Silently. Motionless. Staring straight ahead. It's the most afraid I've ever been of a player but I already laid out a path where I feel like I can't call the floor unless he starts talking again. Finally, his friend comes over and says "Ready to go?" then they both leave together. I never saw him again and so far have not been shot.

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58513227#post58513227)

The first week my previous room opened I sit down at a $1/2 table and seat 1 loses a couple hundred the first hand I dealt. He says "You F-ing piece of S- dealers should all be F-ing shot!"I say something like you need to watch what you say, I didn't come in here to have someone threatening my life. I do this rather than calling the floor because I figure he'll either apologize... See full post

Golden opportunity to deal around him and when he questions it that’s when you call the floor and advise “Seat 1 either said ‘You effing piece of s—- dealers need to be shot’ or ‘Deal around me’, so I dealt around him”

Nah. You get him straight 86ed for saying something like that in a room that is at all competent.

by Quadstriker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58513968#post58513968)

Nah. You get him straight 86ed for saying something like that in a room that is at all competent.

In that room he'd get a mild warning at most. There's a reason I'm not there any more.

Yeah that's sad, but I totally understand.

I had a funny one today. I sat down at a table and my second or third hand, there was a flop, a bet and folds. As I was about to push the pot, two players who were not involved in the hand were discussing something and one of them openly asked me to rabbit hunt. The policy of our room is no rabbit hunting. Most rooms are like that for obvious reasons (slows the game down). Now I have practiced a technique where I can take the stub, while dropping it flip up the top few cards, push up the relevant cards up for a split second, then take the flipped up cards along with flop and flip them back face down. If done right, it takes no extra time and shows the cards that were going to come and is done in one motion. Plus, if push comes to shove, it can look like a fumble. Most players would not notice it unless they were looking for the rabbit hunt. I can play stupid if called out on it. It looks like some accidentally flipped over cards. So these two guys not in the hand are talking and one asks to rabbit hunt. The player who asked is familiar. He is a semi-reg who I know his face, but I don't know him very well. Since the board had a straight flush draw on it and I know the face, I do my thing (straight flush never comes), and move on the next hand. The two players do nothing. No thank you or even acknowledgement. Whatever. In the ensuing few hands they continue to mumble and whisper among themselves. Then the player who asked me to rabbit hunt wins a medium sized pot. Not large, but decent. Most dealers would expect a $1 tip. There is nothing. I am one of those dealers who never expects a tip. I always figure that I don't know their situation and that that one hand does not matter, I will make it up in the long run. So no biggie. Whatever. A few hands later, the two players are whispering and not involved in the hand, and the one asks to rabbit hunt. I look at him and say, I am sorry sir, it is the policy of this room that we do not allow rabbit hunting. I move on and start to shuffle. He starts to get angry. He looks at me like I slapped him. He starts to say I am being unfair and I have already done it once. I repeat my speil that it is the policy of the room of no rabbit hunting. He sputters, turns red, then gets up and walks away from the table. As I am dealing the next hand he comes back with the floorman in tow. As they get to the table, the floorman asks what is going on. The guy starts saying I wouldn't rabbit hunt for him. She immediately shuts him down and tells him that rabbit hunting is not allowed in the room. The player says that I rabbit hunted for other players. I asked who I rabbit hunted for? He points to his friend and says I rabbit hunted when he asked (untrue, his friend never asked previously, he did). To her credit, the floor quickly realized that this was stupid. She repeated that rabbit hunting was not allowed in the room. A few hands later, there was a small hand, a reg I know wins the hand with a bet on the turn. He knows exactly what he is doing. 100%. There was a flush draw on the board and he bet his oppenent off it. As his oppenent folds, he smiles and asks to see the river. It catches me completely off guard, but I quickly recover. I do my thing and show the river would have missed the flush. The player who went to the floor goes ballistic. He (correctly) accuses me of playing favorites. He asks why I showed the river to him. I play dumb. It is one smooth move after all. No way to say otherwise. The reg throws me a redbird while literally laughing his ass off. It is rare, but when karma and life match up, life is beautiful.

Everything is room dependent... I recall many years ago, as a player, a dealer told another player who asked to see the river that the poker room manager was adamant about not rabbit hunting. Over the course of my many years playing there, I saw most dealers also deny such requests, but a few of them do a move (as described above) where the next card was "accidentally" shown. I thought then-- even as a player-- what a stupid thing that would be to potentially get in trouble for. So years later, when I got hired to deal in that same room, I didn't need to be told... In three years, I've never hunted a rabbit, and never will. I'm very flexible on many (cash game) rules in our small room that's 95% regular customers, but there are two hills that I will die on: 1) no phones/betting slips/significant clutter on the felt (on the rail is perfectly fine) and 2) rabbits are never in season. But again, everything is room dependent-- if it's not an egregious violation in your room, do your thing...

I've read through the rules for quite a few poker rooms as a traveling dealer and every single one stated rabbit hunting is not allowed, but most dealers in those rooms would still do it or in some other way allow it. The worst method IMHO is putting the stub where the player can reach it and look for themselves. Those players then start thinking they can do it at any time, and they rarely only expose what would have been the river. They flip the top 5 cards. I've had players try to do it without asking first during $10k buyin tournaments! Sorry bud, nobody touches my stub. The only room I thought did it right was the Hard Rock in Las Vegas, when they had that cool room in the hallway. Players could buy a rabbit hunt for $2. 1 went to the house, 1 to the dealer.

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58550438#post58550438)

I've read through the rules for quite a few poker rooms as a traveling dealer and every single one stated rabbit hunting is not allowed, but most dealers in those rooms would still do it or in some other way allow it. The worst method IMHO is putting the stub where the player can reach it and look for themselves. Those players then start thinking they can do it at any time, and... See full post

I remember that and like it 100%. More importantly, I think you are a million times correct that rabbit hunting should be rare (and at the discretion of the dealer, even though you did not state this). I rarely rabbit hunt. There is no reason to. It takes either a really fun amateur game where everyone is having fun and tipping or a high end game where essentially the players run the game. Generally it is not worth it as a dealer. No upside and only downside. I just hit upon the rare spot where I did it because I speculatively thought is was worth it. I was wrong. I also wanted to point out that there are always ways around the strict rules of the room. I essentially rabbit hunted without being able to be caught at it. Was that wrong in terms of the room rules. Of course. Absolutely. Was it wrong in terms of customer service? Maybe. It depends. A good dealer knows when certain rules are able to be bent for the better good of the room and when they shouldn't be.

Was dealing at a $2/$5 game today. Late player raises to $20 ( standard for the table). Button calls, small blind calls. Big blind throws out a $100 black chip and does not say a thing for a really long time. He is a regular so I know he knows the rules. I hesitate, not because I am trying to give him time, but simply because I am confused. He has like $700+ in red in front of him. He normally would throw red to call. He threw a black which means he wanted to raise, but he did absolutely nothing to legally indicate that. That is why I was confused. So I declare call after a very long pause after the black chip hit the felt. I do not have enough red in play to make change for the black chip so I grab it and look around to see if any player can reasonably change it. The reg who threw it in tells me to give it back to him and he throws 3 reds forward (added to his BB make it correct). It is clear he is absolutely pissed. He is steaming. He is a really nice reg and I have never seen him angry before so I am replaying everything in my mind to make sure I didn't screw anything up. Flop comes out A J 3 rainbow. Frustrated Reg immediately goes silent. The anger melts. Instantly. The best way to describe him is that he is trying to become invisible. This is a perfect description, you just had to see it in person. Small blind checks, he checks, late player bets. Small blind calls. Action gets to the reg and he is literally vibrating. He clearly wants to raise, but he also clearly wants to slowplay. He just calls. A random 8 comes out on the turn. Small blind checks, Reg checks from the BB. Late position bets big. He overbets the pot. Small blind thinks a bit then shoves. BB reg doesn't even hesitate. He calls. Late position shoves for less. Hands are turned over. It is A3 in the small blind, 10,10 in the big blind, and A8 in late position. Set of 10s fades the river. I push the pot to the Reg. He throws me a green chip as a tip. I obviously smile and nod to him. Later on, I am at a different table and the Reg comes up to me. He actually apologizes. He said he fully intended to reraise with pocket 10s there, but for some strange reason he just brain locked. He said he wanted me to know that it wasn't my fault at all (I know...). He said that it was clear from my reaction that I was confused, and that I should have been. He was initially pissed, but only at himself and not at me. He knows he effed up. I thanked him and appreciated the honesty. I told him that I am glad he Forrest Gumped his way into a set with an Ace on a fairly dry board. Poker is weird sometimes.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58562133#post58562133)

Flop comes out A J 3 rainbow. A random 8 comes out on the turn. Hands are turned over. It is A3 in the small blind, 10,10 in the big blind, and A8 in late position. Set of 10s fades the river. I push the pot to the Reg. He throws me a green chip as a tip.

Of course he tipped you a green bird when you somehow thought he had a set of Ts on an AJ38 board.

by wsopfinaltable m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58562332#post58562332)

Of course he tipped you a green bird when you somehow thought he had a set of Ts on an AJ38 board.

Ugh. I am guilty of posting while drinking. I don't remember if it was an AJ3 flop and he had jacks or if it was a A103 flop and he had 10s. I really think it was JJ, but I doubted myself and changed it after typing up the post. The three could also have been a 2 or a 4.

Dealing 2-5 NL yesterday. We'll call Player 1 "Karen". Despised by most of the players and all of the staff, she is loud, obnoxious, and is quick to ask for the manager. She used to be a bad tipper but then I made a floor ruling one day that she disagreed with on a trivial situation (who has the button?) and now she never tips me. Player 2 will be called "Hero". A polite and friendly Asian man who speaks little English but is always in a good mood and is an excessive tipper. He's been known to push me the entire pot (including his own bet) when he steals the blinds. Hero raises preflop with KK. Karen 3-bets with 10 10. Hero smooth calls. Flop is KT8. Karen is predictably felted. This is the highlight of my year as a dealer and ranks top 5 in my career.

hope you got a good toke

Fun times at the casino last week! Some kid sat down at the $1/3 game in Philadelphia Eagles gear. Now, I live in Philly so this doesn't phase me, but it does set the mood for what is to some. Second hand he gets his whole $200ish stack in on a flop of AT3 rainbow. The runout goes 5-5 and he disgustedly turns over A3 which, now counterfeited, loses to AK. Immediately he is mumbling and grumbling and rebuys. Still in the same down he gets it all in on the flop against someone who turns over a flopped top set when the runout finishes. He doesn't show but mumbles about how many outs he missed. He buys into the tournament and I don't see him there, though he was done before it went to the final table so he didn't cash. I run into him again at another $1/3 game and the second I sit down he is bitching about me loud enough for me to hear. He then commences to fold every hand directly in front of him while in the seven-seat (we are 8-handed) meaning I have to lean all the way over to him to retrieve his cards. It was so obvious and petty that someone else at the table, when he stepped away, was incredulous, saying "He's really doing that to you?" Whatever. It's a minor inconvenience and it slows me down but whatever. Not long afterwards I push back into the same table and he is there and he is still doing this. Now I am irritated and two can play that game so I start short-arming him, putting his cards in the middle of the table and making him reach for them. After I do this a couple of times he seems to get the hint and starts folding like a normal person. I was glad it ended there, but I had one more bullet in my chamber if he kept it up, and I was definitely going to fire it if I had to: You know how when someone new to poker is at the table you will let the dealer pushing in know so they can treat them with kid gloves and not assume they are versed in things? Well, I was going to whisper loud enough that he could hear to the new dealer that the guy in the 7-seat had never played before and to be gentle with him. I am very confident that, had I done this, he would have protested about how he has played the game before. At which point I would, with mock sincerity, apologize profusely. "I'm sorry," I would tell him. "When you went on monkey tilt for two hours because you took a bad beat I assumed you had to be new at this."

Did he look like Eric Andre? At my old job we had a guy who would do the card thing. Eventually he got banned and is still somewhere in the NE. I wish more players would have the guts to speak out with the guy still at the table. I understand why they don't but it would really help out.

I had the best/worst day the other day. I started late in the afternoon which is rare for me. Furthermore I had a crappy night sleep and was tired. Mostly due to the shift change, but whatever. So knowing I am in trouble, I show up to my shift early to sign the EO before I ever clock on. The floor person in charge or the rotation asks me if I can clock in early and open a table. Not good for my EO, but sure, I am already here so why not. He tells me to open the 10-25-50 game, generally our biggest game. It is a time collection game. We generally waive time collection for the first down or even two to get the game going. It depends upon demand. The game also gets a moderate auto-toke at time collection. Not great but decent. So I open the game and for the first 15 minutes I make nothing. Literally. I cannot blame the players because they are used to auto-toke, but since I am not taking time collection, I am not taking auto-toke either. It sucks, but not the biggest deal in the world. Again, I don't blame the players, they are all very good to the dealers and will always bend over backwards to help them, but the timing sucked. Most of the players have been more than generous to me in the past so I cannot complain. After a while I realize that I have been in for a while. Since I had clocked in early (probably 20 minutes to the hour), I had guessed that I was dealing the next down as well. I asked the floor if there was a forgotten tap out of me or not. The floor comes over and tells me that the shift manager screwed up and forgot to put the table in the rotation. Sorry. To their credit, they announced to the table that since the table had just started up, there would be no time collection, but that they should take care of the dealer. A couple of players tip me the minimum that would come with the auto toke. Fine. I continue dealing and again it seems like a long time. After a while I see other tables rotating, but no one comes to tap me out. So I call the floor over. I explain I haven't been tapped. They say ok and go the the shift manager. He comes over and I explain to him. He leaves and investigates. He comes back and explains that the person who was supposed to tap me out didn't read the updated board correctly and tapped out the game ahead of me. Fine. So I am stuck here for another down. To their credit, a couple of players see that I am stuck here again (and as a result they have yet to pay time) and tip me. It is a freeroll for them. So I deal the rest of that down. I finally get tapped out. I had dealt an hour and 20 minutes at the table. I made barely over the minimum of the auto-toke for two downs. Fine. Again, no big deal. They players have no idea that there have been two screw ups. Not their fault. The thing is, dealing at the high limit game is stressful. For thr most part, the players are great, but the game is tough. They play all sorts of games and things in the game are taken for granted (for example, since the BB is $50 it would be assumed just throwing in a $100 chip is a call, they all consider this a raise, unless verbalized). Furthermore there are a few players who are very peculiar about stuff. They may be in the big blind, but do not want the dealer to remind them. They will throw out the blind after the cards are out. Nothing major, but stressful as a dealer nonetheless. Especually considering the looseness of the game. Compound it with the fact that they they are playing for a ton of money and it can be very stressful. I don't want that to sound harsh. It is a great game to deal. I love it. I really like dealing it, but that doesn't mean it isn't stressful. A dealer always has to be on. At his best or he will suffer. So I then I (finally) go tap into the rest of my rotation of three tournament tables. I tap out the dealer who effed up and should have tapped me, but skipped me. I immediately understand. This dealer is probably the nicest guy in the world. I am sure he saves puppies and orphans on his days off. No doubt. Unfortunately he is the worst dealer in the world. He literally does not have a clue. I would rather follow a brand new dealer out of school than him. He is brutal. The rack is always a disaster, and it is a 50/50 proposition that the button is in the right place. He is terrible. I understand why he effed up and I had to deal over an hour at the high limit game. Fine. Whatever. The first down goes smoothly. They players are all complementing me about how I am such a good dealer. I am being compared to the worst dealer in the world, so I take it with a grain of salt, but still. Good ego boost. The 2nd tournament table is the same. Lots of compliments, but context matters. I am literally being compared to one of the worst dealers in the world. Great ego boost. However, I see that I am not sharp. I am tired. An hour an 20 on the stressful high limit game plus an hour at tournaments has gotten to me after not getting good sleep. I am off. My mistakes are minor. Misreading bets, or missing action. Easily recovering from and the players do not even notice. I do though. I get to the third tournament table and the players are ecstatic that there is a dealer there with an IQ over 80. They are loving me compared to the dealer ahead of me. I am faster, more efficient, more accurate, everything. Ego boost but whatever. I know I am struggling. I am making minor mistakes that are not seen by the players. One of the players decides to engage me in conversation. He compliments me compared to the previous dealer. Great. He then asks me about dealer stuff. What makes a good dealer? Does skill matter to the casino? Etc. I try and engage him, but I know I am dealing terrible. I am dying. Half way through the down, the shift comes by and notifies me that I am out when I get tapped. My EO. Great. I am so tired and not 100% that I cannot wait to leave. The player keeps asking me stuff about dealer quality that I am forced to respond. I acknowledge that the dealer in front of me is terrible, but I recognize that most of the dealers at our place are good. He keeps talking to me and pumping me up. I get tapped and told it is my last hand. 4 players to the flop. Then the turn comes. First player bets, next two fold. I immediately drop the stub, flip the board and push the pot to the first player who bet. There is still another player to act. Oops. Fuc$%^=_@. I really messed up. Furthermore, while pushing the pot, I had mixed the board into the muck. Eff me. I am a dumbass. Kill me now. I have just been receiving accolades on how I was such a better dealer than the previous guy (true, but still), then I totally eff it up. Worst mistake I could make. I call the floor over. I explain what happened. Luckily, I remembered enough of the board that with unanimous consent from the players we are able to properly reconstruct the board to everyone's satisfaction. I pull what I think is the board out of the muck, everyone agrees. I deal the river and the action goes check check. Calling player had a flush draw and missed. He was fine with it. Turns out that his biggest worry was that we would get the board wrong (i.e. no flush draw and he would have to argue for the board, thereby giving away his hand). He was just ecstatic we got it right without his input. Everyone at the table was fine. I dodged a bullet.

It's not you, it's universal-- players complimenting our dealing ensures that we're about to make a mistake. It's the same energy force that gives your opponent his two-outer on the river after he stands up and tells you nice hand.

by machi5 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58600783#post58600783)

It's not you, it's universal-- players complimenting our dealing ensures that we're about to make a mistake. It's the same energy force that gives your opponent his two-outer on the river after he stands up and tells you nice hand.

This is the best understanding of poker I have seen on this site.

Players generally don't gas up my dealing, but if they do, it's pretty likely they're about to suffer an absurd cooler/suckout in the next orbit or 2 I'm dealing to them.

by machi5 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58600783#post58600783)

It's not you, it's universal-- players complimenting our dealing ensures that we're about to make a mistake.

I've got a really nice, pixel-perfect flop but it's like a trauma victim in a psychologist's office: it breaks down if you talk about it.

I'm going back to dealing after several years off. I have heard in my market players are much better behaved in general, especially regulars (maybe because we have staff with backbones now?) is this your feeling for anyone who has been in the industry 25+ years? Or is it market dependant...or do they just want me back in the box because they don't want to be there as often and want someone who knows what they're doing? And with different cards and fewer people at each table how hard is it goto be to adjust the pitch? We were 11 handed for hold'em when I was at my peak but I think they've switched to 9 handed for hold'em and Omaha. I adjusted to 10 handed okay for the last little while but these hands want to do what they want to do. We were only limit except tournaments when I dealt last and now mostly NL; I know how to deal it and what reopens betting and everything but it just seems so overwhelming change in thinking. Maybe I'm lucky they don't know I'm the last dealer they had who knew how to deal stud and should feel lucky they don't advertise they can spread it and try to keep me in the box for hours until the table agrees to a break again? Anyway! Someone assure me I'm not making a terrible decision.

by Guito m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58612917#post58612917)

I'm going back to dealing after several years off. I have heard in my market players are much better behaved in general [...] Anyway! Someone assure me I'm not making a terrible decision.

Player perspective here (and a less frequent one at that), but I don't think anything has changed really. I'm sure things are regional, but management still cares about the same things, players still act the same way, only the tiny details have changed. Pitching to 9 vs 11 seats doesn't matter. Learning NL rules and minutia will happen quickly. You just need to know why you left the first time, because if it wasn't some externality that has changed (had to take care of a relative, kids were in school and you needed different hours, etc.), then more than likely it will all be the same again, and you'll wonder why you thought things would be any different this time around. JMO.

In our market the Players are just older (and wiser?) and also having gone through Covid calmed them down quite a bit IMO. There's still the few that 'show' they take it personally that you 'never' deal them a winner (or 'always' let the V suck out). The issue in our market is the Player Pool is getting older and we need to figure out how to get an influx of younger Players into the live scene. Of course there's no tipping online, so the younger crowd doesn't know what to do about that while some of the older crowd can be seen as 'wonderfully' generous in pots that net them 2x or so. I just saw a $25 tip on a $400 pot just because the Player hit a 2-outer. I wouldn't think pitching would be a big deal except the initial 8-12 days on your body to adjust muscle use. I think you're in a great spot the first few weeks as you can always claim ignorance and or make the Players feel they are helping you get readjusted. "Oh really? I'll have to check that out with the Boss .. or would you like me to call the Floor over right now to make sure?" Players wont forget how you were the last time around that's for sure, so just pretend you were on extended vacation. GL

I don't think there is a difference in players over all. There may be changes locally - losing a few troublesome regs can make a big difference, be they players, dealers, or management. Adjusting to pitching to fewer players is the easiest thing in the world. Going from 8 to 11 is much more of a challenge. As for NL, you'll get the hang of it quickly.

Are there even tables around that can accommodate 11 players of average 2024 size? The 10-player tables from years past seem to work perfectly fine for 9 players these days because the average person weights 10% (or something like that) more than 30 years ago.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58587919#post58587919)

Fun times at the casino last week!........

So this guy.... Next time I go in he is acting the fool yet again, folding cards directly in front of him and mumbling loud enough for me to hear. Again! He was doing it in a tournament which bugged me even more because I am a player myself and I appreciate fast dealers who can churn out hands when blinds are going up quickly as they are wont to do in daily tournaments. So I do my best to get the hands out and appreciate someone who is making that impossible even less than at cash games where only my toke rate is affected. I don't want to compound things so I don't short-arm him but as I walk away I hear him mumbling as I walk by so I ask him what his problem is. He tells me to get the **** away from him. "Floor!" I tell the floor I do not need to be cursed at and walk away because I trust the floor to deal with it. And he does; when I meet up with him after a chip run (I was brush after the table) he just said to me "He won't be saying anything to you again." I don't deal to him again until my next shift at a tournament table. He is folding like a normal person and I am ensuring I don't speak to him unless it's to direct action. Okay, fine. But a funny thing happens: He wins a big pot where he rivers a straight against someone else's two pairs. Then he wins another larger pot. Didn't think anything of it but he cashes in the tournament and jumps into $1/3 where I deal to him uneventfully until I deal him a high hand that would net him $350 if it makes it to the end of my down. It does, but I am pushed out and head back to the tourney. While dealing the tournament, suddenly a greenbird hits the felt. I look up and it's my nemesis taking care of me for the High Hand. Well, that's cool! (Sidenote: It was part of a strange night where in six hours I dealt four high hands, all held up. And one of them was a Royal Flush and that guy stiffed me!) I head back to his table not long afterwards and he is the beneficiary of catching big hands against someone who was on total tilt. The result was he won three huge hands in a row with big pocket pairs that held up (one of them he hit a set of Queens to beat Kings; the hand that set the other guy off on tile). And I got a greenbird from him each time. So my nemesis went from cursing me out to giving me $100. All I can do is hope that if I deal him dirty sometime he doesn't go back to the way he was before! Our job is sure strange sometimes...

Couldn't find this situation in TDA rules. Scenario is free bar poker tournament (if that matters), blinds 1K-2K, postflop. First player to act goes all-in for 1K. Next player calls, I tell them min bet is 2K. Other player (who usually knows the rules pretty well, but sometimes misses one) says, no, he's allowed to just call the bet. I say I don't think that's right, but don't really care (free bar poker), and allow it. Is that covered in TDA and I missed it? If so, which was the right ruling?

Calling is definitely allowed. A minraise would be to 3K total. The situation where it would be 2K to play would be blinds 1K-2K, BB all in for 1k. Any player entering would still call 2K

by Thamel18 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58613887#post58613887)

Calling is definitely allowed. A minraise would be to 3K total. The situation where it would be 2K to play would be blinds 1K-2K, BB all in for 1k. Any player entering would still call 2K

This^^ Where this can get interesting is if it checked to the button, and they went all in for 1k, the other players can only call or fold. 1K is not a legal bet therefore it doesn’t reopen the action.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Wait, what? Wouldn't all players not AI have to at least call the BB to play?

by Garick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58614542#post58614542)

Wait, what? Wouldn't all players not AI have to at least call the BB to play?

Pre flop, but the question is about post flop.

If a call wasn’t allowed, then button could watch everyone fold and then bet 2K knowing it was really only a call of 1K. No one else could do this as a call behind would bind the better to the 2K.

Has to share this one, a lot to make dealers smile. https://youtube.com/shorts/ylVwF82H-_Q?s... (https://youtube.com/shorts/ylVwF82H-_Q?si=C8MtxE0FNArp1Syq) Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

by Garick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58614542#post58614542)

Wait, what? Wouldn't all players not AI have to at least call the BB to play?

That was my thought. The BB defines the minimum bet for each round of betting; just because the first (or any) player can't match that bet shouldn't release the rest of the players from that responsibility. If the responses ITT are correct (no reason to believe otherwise), that's a rule/procedure I'm not a fan of.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58614742#post58614742)

That was my thought. The BB defines the minimum bet for each round of betting; just because the first (or any) player can't match that bet shouldn't release the rest of the players from that responsibility. If the responses ITT are correct (no reason to believe otherwise), that's a rule/procedure I'm not a fan of.

So you believe only the button should effectively be able to call the all in? Anyone else must bet to call?

No, I believe what more experienced people ITT are posting. I could not find anything in TDA rules/procedures to confirm or deny either view. If I were making the rules, I'd like it to be that the BB defines the minimum bet for each round, and anyone who is able to, must meet that minimum.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58613867#post58613867)

Couldn't find this situation in TDA rules. Scenario is free bar poker tournament (if that matters), blinds 1K-2K, postflop.First player to act goes all-in for 1K. Next player calls, I tell them min bet is 2K. Other player (who usually knows the rules pretty well, but sometimes misses one) says, no, he's allowed to just call the bet.I say I don't think that's right, but don't... See full post

As it's not a legal bet we can't force anybody to make a legal bet. As there is 1K on the table it must be matched, the guy all in must get value for the bet, no one can freeroll by just checking. So the "least wrong" is to at least need to match the 1K, or of course fold.

The big blind is in for 2k though, right? UTG is all in for less. Everyone else can A) call the 2k BB; b) raise or c) fold. I must be missing something though.

by brianr m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58614795#post58614795)

The big blind is in for 2k though, right? UTG is all in for less. Everyone else can A) call the 2k BB; b) raise or c) fold. I must be missing something though.

We're postflop and don't know who is all-in for less than 1BB. It's the player "first to act" though. I assume golddog would have said if BB (or someone else) was in for 2k.

Totally missed the postflop part.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58614761#post58614761)

No, I believe what more experienced people ITT are posting. I could not find anything in TDA rules/procedures to confirm or deny either view. If I were making the rules, I'd like it to be that the BB defines the minimum bet for each round, and anyone who is able to, must meet that minimum.

A bets 2k, B calls, C all-in for 3k, back to A Using that logic, Player A & B would have to put in 4k since that is the minimum raise. Therefore anybody who is able to must meet the minimum.

I know the question was about NL, but imagine if it was a limit tournament and the rule was you had to complete the bet/raise or fold. There is potential for short stacks leveraging a ton of advantage in that case, e.g. limits 1500/3000, 3 or more players in the pot, short stack waits for 5th street in Stud (or the turn in Holdem/Omaha8) and goes all-in for 200. Next player to act is sandwiched and at a clear disadvantage to the player(s) behind & the short stack due to such a rule.

OK, now I'm seeing the logic behind it, with these examples. Thanks guys, good clarifications. Never imagined this was going to generate such a set of responses. Thanks everyone for your effort and input.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58614761#post58614761)

No, I believe what more experienced people ITT are posting. I could not find anything in TDA rules/procedures to confirm or deny either view. If I were making the rules, I'd like it to be that the BB defines the minimum bet for each round, and anyone who is able to, must meet that minimum.

So you do believe only the button should be allowed to effectively call. Button would be the only one who could make the min bet knowing that it was actually only a call. I am not saying this is or isn’t the rule. It is the factual result of forcing a min bet instead of allowing calls. There are otherinteresting aspects to the forced min bet. The first is, what that bet amount. NL doesn’t have the concept of completing a bet. The min raise of an all in for less than full bet is the min raise size plus the non bet amount. Do we use that NL rule here also? Second would be that anyone calling by making the min bet would reopen action to players who had checked before the all in. This would shift the effective button in these scenarios.

I do like prying into the reasons why a certain rule or procedure is that way it is, because knowing the reasoning helps crystallize the information so much better. I guess the best way to see this is equal opportunity. Every street, every player in a hand has equal opportunity/option to make a legal bet/raise when the action is on them at some point, sometimes multiple points. If the amount in their stack isn't able to make such an action, they are able to go all-in. If a less-than-legal all-in bet/raise somehow reopened the action to players who already declined the option to make a bet/raise, then there'd be a pretty pronounced inherent advantage for certain players, yes? Similar to having to "call for more" or having to complete a less than full bet/raise to continue. Another way some people think about it is you "can't raise yourself". Like I bet 2k (or call a bet of 2k), a player goes all-in for an amount between 2.1k-3.9k, and it comes back to me. If I got to reraise here, I'd be raising the last legal bet, which happens to be my own, or one I already called rather than raised.

by madlex m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58614557#post58614557)

Pre flop, but the question is about post flop.

Oops. Missed that one word...

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58613470#post58613470)

Our job is sure strange sometimes...

The variance in poker can be crazy. That most definitely applies to playing, but it can even apply to dealing. Downs are only 30 minutes long so they definitely qualify as short term, but it still amazes me how variable results can be even to long term players who I see regularly. There is a $2/$5 regular who I absolutely love. We often talk off of the felt about poker and I can honestly say I have benefited from these talks. I think he has as well. He is an excellent player who wins a ton and he tips very well. He is a perfect player from a dealer perspective. He plays fast, is not only understanding, but helpful. Games run better when he is there. I always seem to kick him in the nuts as a dealer. Even though he is a huge winner overall, he always seems to lose with me in the box. Most of his losses are of the mundane type (he has top pair, or top two, or a set) it is obvious his oppenent has a flush draw. He bets pot on the flop and turn. His oppenent calls. Of course the flush comes on the river. He knows his oppenent has it, I know his oppenent has it. I can only sigh and shake my head. Other times I will just wreck him by giving him the 2nd nuts and his opponents the 1st nuts. Whatever it takes. He loses. It started off as a joke between us because we both understand variance and the nature of poker, but it has gotten to the point now where I am afraid it will become personal. It is that bad. Poker can be very funny sometimes. The more you understand it, the more it will confound you.

Think we partly are in it for that unpredictable drama, trying to smoothen it out some with skill. Dealer remains absolutely unguilty though, the poker gods maybe too 😉

When I opened a new room we had one 2/5 (or 5/10 when it ran) reg who absolutely crushed the game for the first year and a half. I never once saw him even have to rebuy a single time. Once he got down to about $100 and of course built that back up. He was not a nit either, so his winning sessions were big wins. Then suddenly it was like a switch was flipped and nothing went right. He was getting sucked out on, his bluffs were getting called but his value bets weren't. Not that I'm a great judge of player abilities, but it didn't seem like he was playing any worse or anyone else playing better against him. A couple of months of this and he moved on to another room. Good and bad runs can last for a really long time.

I just had my best down I have ever had monetarily as well as professionally from a satisfaction aspect. It was a Forrest Gump situation though because I will admit I was an idiot and took a huge unnecessary risk. I was dumb. Absolutely no doubt. We have been running some higher limit games than we normally do. Great. They are generally auto toked which means a decent but not great down, but lots of potential. If I deal lots of crazy hands I can make a lot of money. So there are a couple of players who I know in the game because they always play in our highest game. What I mean by "know" is that I have regularly dealt to them before. They know they are getting a halfway decent dealer and they appreciate it, but other than that they really don't care about me. In this situation my job is just "shut up and deal". No encouragement of action, no talking at all. Just get out the cards and let them run the game and dominate the conversation. I am perfectly OK with this. In fact oftentimes this is my best game. I really don't want to talk. Great, just shut up and deal. So as my down progresses there is not much of note, theybare all watching the WSOP on TV and the action there dominates the discussion. I am just shutting up and dealing. It has been a good down for me. In addition to the auto toke, I have gotten quite a few redbirds. I have no complaint. The player in seat two has been taken a little bit of a beating. It is clear it started well before I ever sat down. Anyway, he starts to attribute his bad run to my dealing. Not aggressively and he never crosses any line. He never says anything that every dealer hasn't heard at some point. Furthermore, it is fairly clear that he is half joking. He is getting frustrated at the cards he is getting and expressing it, but it isn't personal. I know it. I am 99% sure he recognizes I am not controlling the cards. A couple of the other player pick up on his frustration. Of course they are going to start needling him over it. Why not? Again, I want to make it clear that it was clear he wasn't really blaming me. He knew better, but just needed to express his frustration. So it goes on for a few more minutes and the othe players start encouraging it. There are comments about me cold decking him, etc. It culminates with him losing a pot where he misses a flush draw or such. He says something to me like "Why do you keep teasing me?" as he disgustingly throws his cards forward. I hesitate a second or two, then decide what the hell. I loudly say in response to his question "I just don't like you....". There was a really long pause. Uncomfortably long. I thought that I really messed up. Then the whole table explodes in laughter. Everyone is laughing uncontrollably. One player then throws me a $25 green chip. Everyone follows at the table and throws me either a green or black chip. They all love my burn. I was still nervous about the target. He could go to the floor and get me in trouble. I looked at him. As I looked at him I pretty much decided that if he escalated, I would admit to what I did. I was out of bounds. No doubt. I thought (hoped???) that he would take it in the playful manner it was intended, but I was wrong. He sat there and after a few seconds he smiled and threw me a $500 chip. As he did it he said "That was good, just don't fuc%ing do it again". I knew that deep down he wasn't really blaming me for his crappy cards. It was clear at least to me, but I may have read far too much into the situation. I made about $1k that down. Good for me. It will never happen again. I also risked my job. Now I am fairly (99%?!?!?) sure that I wouldn't be fired. I have no doubt that if he made a big deal out if it that I would suffer. I know inwould have been reprimanded. I would have pissed some people above me off. I like to think I have built up enough goodwill that I would survive, but you never really know. I will fully admit that it was utterly stupid of me to speak up. No amount of (reasonable) amount of money is worth it. I literally could not help myself. I was really sure he was half joking and I was in a playful mood, so I spoke up. I was stupid, but lucky.

To be fair, I actually think this helped the player. I think he was falling into a victim mentality. He was letting his bad run of cards affect him even though he should know better. I think my comment woke him up or reset him to look beyond the bad run of cards and just continue to play well. It was still a really stupid gamble on my part though.

Any 'personal' comments from a Dealer can be taken both ways. Some Players don't want you to 'help' a tilted Player .. they want them to continue tilting. One thing that I find can be effective is to ask this Player "Thick or Thin cut?" a couple of times. But even that can torque over another Player who insists that you 'changed the deck' in favor of one Player. GL

Had a strange one. Cash game. $2/$5. Button in seat nine. Small blind seat 1. Big blind seat 2. While pushing the pot and collecting the cards between hands I tell seat 2 that he is the big blind. He doesn't hear me. He is deep in conversation with seat 3. Furthermore the cocktail waitress is there. She has his drink. I pull the next deck out of the shuffler, cut it and start to deal. As i pass seat two with the first pre-flop card, I again tell him that he is the big blind. It falls upon deaf ears. As I pass the second card out, I again try to get his attention to let him know it is his blind. I continue for the rest of the table. By this time, the waitress has moved over to seat 8 and is trying to drop off his drink. As I finish dealing the preflop cards ending on seat 9. Seat 8 has picked up his cards and started to look at them. He is wearing earbuds so he cannot hear the waitress behind him. So as I deal the last card to seat 9, I look at him (seat 8) and nod towards the waitress behind him. I am trying to indicate that that someone is waiting behind him waiting on him. He semi-panicks and thinks the action is on him. He briefly glances at his cards and slightly pushes them forward. I stop him and verbalize that the action isn't on him, I was just trying to let him know the waitress is behind him. I push his cards back to him despite the fact they haven't even crossed the line and his hand had never lost contact with the cards. He pulls them back and turns and deals with the waitress. I turn to seat two (who still hasn't posted his big blind and is lost in conversation with seat three). I pound on the table in front of seat two and again tell him it is his big blind. I look at seat 3 and tell him that the action is on him. It takes them a minute to gather their wits. With me repeating what I said a couple of times, they finally figure it out. It takes a while though. Seat two finally posts. Seat three thinks a while and then limps. Another player or two limp with a fold or two mixes in. It gets to seat 8. He limps. Seat 9 goes off. He says that seat 8 was folding out of turn earlier, now he is calling. He insists that it should be a fold. There is some discussion and I call over a floor. Floor comes over. Seat 9 rightly complains that seat 8 folded out of turn earlier and now he is limping. I explain to the floor that earlier I tried to tell him that the waitress was behind him but that he panicked and thought the action was on him so he tried to panic fold. Seat 8 finally speaks to the floor and acknowledges what happened earlier. He said that he panicked and was going to fold, but that after he realized the action wasn't on him he re-evaluated his hand and was calling. He also commentd that it didnt even occur to him that it was the same hand. He was just acting in turn on his hand and wanted to call. To be fair to seat 8, he told the floor that he would accept if he ruled that he folded. He wasn't trying to act maliciously. He just re-evaluated his hand not in a panic. The floor discusses the hand with me, and I clearly explain to him that there was confusion between seat 8 and myself about action, but that he was panicking and that it was a while ago. Without controversy, I would have forgotten about it. Ibbarely realized that it was the same hand. Floor rules that seat 8's hand is still live and he he can either call or fold. No raise. Seat 8 calls. Seat 9 grumbles then folds. Flop comes, someone bets, seat 8 folds. No more controversy. Later, seat 8 admitted that he had a mid-mediocre borderline hand. In a panic he was going to fold it not knowing anything about the action. However after seeing multiple limps, he wanted to play it. He wasn’t trying to angle, if fact there was so much time between him panicking and when he was actually supposed to act that he didn't even realize it was the same hand. Seat 8 was a semi -reg. I am 100% sure he wasn't angling. I have seen him in other past confusing instances pass up an opportunity to take advantage of his oppenent and clarify any action. Furthermore, is limping behind a bunch of other limps really an angle?

What kind of a-hole must seat 9 be? He must have been folding regardless; can't imagine he decided to fold because seat 8 limped in with an obviously mediocre hand. I'm even kind of a rules nit about some things, but I can't understand people who would act like this.

I have a simple procedure that eliminates delayed blind-posting issues. After telling the offending party repeatedly that they're in the blind as I'm dealing the first cards (and being ignored as usual), I stop dealing when I get to him on the second card and tell him again. No blind, no hand. If he's still oblivious, at this point the other players are annoyed that he's now affecting their lives, as they can't get their second cards either. So, more often than not, several of them will now join me in the struggle to get an otherwise functioning adult to somehow find a way to push a damn poker chip forward. This eventually gets the job done, especially since they have no requirements to be polite in their attention-getting methods. For the record, I don't do this to be petty. I've seen way too many hands get screwed up from the get-go because of this issue, and this procedure prohibits those problems from ever arising. It's especially helpful in our cash games, which often have someone straddling the button. Starting a hand without blinds correctly posted with a button straddle pretty much guarantees a mess right from the get-go. No ticket, no laundry. No blind, no hand...

this sounds like a routine occurrence in most card rooms. Players don't/can't pay attention to the action or the blinds, on their phone, eating, reading the menu, etc. pretty annoying but that's part of the price we pay for playing cards.

I've run into players who flat out refuse to post their blind before they get their second card. Some think they're helping by leaving a clear path, others have motivations I can't figure out. If someone looks at their cards and pushes them forward, I'm stopping the action then mucking them. I don't care if it's not on them yet.

by machi5 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58636234#post58636234)

I have a simple procedure that eliminates delayed blind-posting issues. After telling the offending party repeatedly that they're in the blind as I'm dealing the first cards (and being ignored as usual), I stop dealing when I get to him on the second card and tell him again. No blind, no hand. If he's still oblivious, at this point the other players are annoyed that he's now af... See full post

I used to do something similar. The problem is that you are just hurting yourself by slowing the game down. What has helped me is that the management where I work has put much of the burden on the players. If a players who is supposed to be in the BB looks at their cards and folds to an unraised bet, that is on them. Especially if the dealer has openly announced to them that they are the blind. Every floor at my casino will make a BB post after he folded. It is up to them to pay attention. If I told a floor that I tried 3 times to get a player to post the BB they will fully support making him deal with the consequences of his negligence. Therefore there is no reason to slow the game down. Other players prefer keeping the game moving, the house prefers more hands dealt, and the dealer benefits from more hands as well.

by Reducto m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58636559#post58636559)

I've run into players who flat out refuse to post their blind before they get their second card. Some think they're helping by leaving a clear path, others have motivations I can't figure out. If someone looks at their cards and pushes them forward, I'm stopping the action then mucking them. I don't care if it's not on them yet.

I don't disagree with what you said. I pretty much do the same (depending......). In this instance there were three factors that made a difference. 1. He barely pushed his cards forward. They clearly went forward, but they also didn't completely cross the line (though they might have touched it). 2. His hands never broke contact with his cards. I stopped him before they did. 3. I felt partly responsible for the confusion. I was trying to be helpful and point out the waitress, but it is clear that it looked like I was indicating action was on him. I don't want to kill a hand based off of miscommunication that I was partly responsible for. That said, if he had released the cards completely, I would have mucked them just out of habit (on the other hand, there was no muck yet so they would have been easily retrievable....)

by chillrob m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58635966#post58635966)

What kind of a-hole must seat 9 be? He must have been folding regardless; can't imagine he decided to fold because seat 8 limped in with an obviously mediocre hand. I'm even kind of a rules nit about some things, but I can't understand people who would act like this.

Seat 9 can only be best described as a professional a-hole. Everytime I encounter him and see some of his shenanigans I always think to post about him but then it seems so insignificant later that I don't. It is always just little stuff like this so it seems silly, it is just the quantity of the stuff that makes him a professional a-hole. One of his favorite things to do is always ask for the seat change button when he sits down. Annoying but whatever. I won't get mad at someone who is looking to get their favorite seat or is looking for an advantage by sitting to the right of a maniac. Good for them. That is not why he wants the seat change button though. He just wants to annoy people with it. He will always take the next seat that opens up. Always. He just waits to do it. So if a seat opens up, he won't take it right away. He will wait. If another player at the table asks to move he will suddenly say he wants the seat and flash the button. He only wants it after someone else is thinking about moving. Or if a new player shows up for the empty seat, he will wait as long as possible to claim the empty seat so the new player has to wait for him to move. He used to wait until the player got settled (but hadn't yet been dealt a hand) before asserting he should get the seat, but our management quickly caught on to what he was doing and stated he waited too long and the new player got the seat. So now he waits as long as he thinks he can get away with it. Who does this? Just an a-hole.

This whole situation could’ve been avoided if you were less concerned with seat 8s drink order and more concerned with running your game. Pitching before blinds are posted is fine imo as long as you get BB and UTGs attention asap. But when you finish your pitch and the first thing you do is have an interaction with a player on the opposite side of the table, you’re just asking for problems. Now you have to make a floor call that was completely avoidable, and whatever time you saved by pitching before the blinds were posted has been completely wiped out and then some.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58635824#post58635824)

Seat 9 goes off. He says that seat 8 was folding out of turn earlier, now he is calling. He insists that it should be a fold.

This reminds me countless times a big blind not paying attention will (in turn) fold when there were no preflop raises. What do all of you do when this happens (and I know it happens a lot)? I usually give it back, the guy usually gets a look like "whoops, yeah I'll keep these then," and the hand goes on without any controversy. Sometimes the guy insists that it's a fold. I admire that actually, like this hand is so crap I won't even play it for free. (As an aside, I cannot recall a single case where someone who tried to fold but I gave them the cards back won the pot, certainly nothing substantial. It's like garbage hands rarely win. I wind up saying "You were right the first time" when they fold to a bet.) Have I just been lucky all these years? Is it possible that someone will start screaming at me that the player folded and I should just muck the cards and how dare I give the player the cards back? (If I were a floor person and that was brought to me, I would tell the guy if he wanted the BB to fold he should have raised.) Give me stories and make me change my mind about giving the hand back to the player when this happens!

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58639398#post58639398)

This reminds me countless times a big blind not paying attention will (in turn) fold when there were no preflop raises. What do all of you do when this happens (and I know it happens a lot)? I usually give it back, the guy usually gets a look like "whoops, yeah I'll keep these then," and the hand goes on without any controversy.

I will muck it 99% of the time, with the only exception being they are money behind and don't have the ability to put the blind out. I have seen this blow up before. I'm not rewarding oblivious players anymore. I say it before I deal, as I pass with card one, and as I pass with card two. Three strikes, you're out.

by waldoworld m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58639595#post58639595)

I will muck it 99% of the time, with the only exception being they are money behind and don't have the ability to put the blind out. I have seen this blow up before. I'm not rewarding oblivious players anymore. I say it before I deal, as I pass with card one, and as I pass with card two. Three strikes, you're out.

Thanks, but I don't mean when players don't put the blinds out. The situation with the guy folding out of turn because he wasn't paying attention reminded me of the scenario of a big blind folding in turn when nobody raised.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58639602#post58639602)

Thanks, but I don't mean when players don't put the blinds out. The situation with the guy folding out of turn because he wasn't paying attention reminded me of the scenario of a big blind folding in turn when nobody raised.

Fair point! I don't then either, though. It's not really different to me. Not trying to instamuck, but it's going at regular speed. Their priority may not be the action, but it is usually everyone else's. Pay attention or pay money.

Whenever I accidentally do that, I grab my hand back and point at it saying "not Aces". Often I even say that when someone else does it, but only if it's a friendly game.

by football0020 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58637498#post58637498)

This whole situation could’ve been avoided if you were less concerned with seat 8s drink order and more concerned with running your game.Pitching before blinds are posted is fine imo as long as you get BB and UTGs attention asap. But when you finish your pitch and the first thing you do is have an interaction with a player on the opposite side of the table, you’re just asking f... See full post

Dealers at most casinos are more than just poker dealers. The casino will say they are in the customer service business. Maybe at something like the WSOP they might just be considered card dealers and nothing more, but most casinos want their dealers acknowledging and helping out customers when they see an issue. That is simply good customer service. When I nod to seat 8, I don't think it is going to be any bigger deal than a simple nod and moving on. That isn't just good customer service, that is just being a nice person. Who wouldn't help get the attention of someone who was distracted? That is just being a nice person. Finally, my helping seat 8 didn't affect anything with the blinds. They were distracted until I pounded on the table in front of them. The floor was called only because seat 9 was a professional a-hole looking to irritate others whenever he could.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58639398#post58639398)

This reminds me countless times a big blind not paying attention will (in turn) fold when there were no preflop raises. What do all of you do when this happens (and I know it happens a lot)?I usually give it back, the guy usually gets a look like "whoops, yeah I'll keep these then," and the hand goes on without any controversy.Sometimes the guy insists that it's a fold. I admir... See full post

This is a big depends. The casino I currently work at considers themselves to be very newbie friendly so as a dealer I might put some effort into letting the big blind know he can play for free instead of folding. The way of doing this can vary greatly. Sometimes it can be as simple as finding something to distract me for a few seconds to give the BB time to realize they can pull their cards back and check. Other times I might even openly ask the big blind if they are folding when they can check. It depends upon the player and the table. If it is clearly a new player, I will give them much more leeway. Obviously tournaments are different. There is a different standard there. That said, while I can understand mucking a big blind who folds when not facing a raise, there is also some stuff in the TDA about giving players warnings when they fold facing no action. Do dealers who insta muck big blind hands who fold also call over the floor to give them a warning? Seems way overly harsh.

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58639927#post58639927)

That said, while I can understand mucking a big blind who folds when not facing a raise, there is also some stuff in the TDA about giving players warnings when they fold facing no action. Do dealers who insta muck big blind hands who fold also call over the floor to give them a warning? Seems way overly harsh.

I ask this because it caused some problems in our casino a few months back. For whatever reason in our daily tournaments there was a rash of players who would fold when facing no action post flop. Six players to a limped flop, the small blind would open fold on a 9 Q A board when holding 54 offsuit. They wanted to get back to their phone. Management wanted to crack down on this (rightly so since it was happening far too much in tournaments). The problem was they didn't restrict their crackdown to just tournaments. They wanted to enforce warnings and penalties to players who folded when not facing a raise in cash games as well. As a reminder, we consider ourselves a newbie friendly poker room. As a result, we had more then a few instances of newbie players get double embarrassed. Not only would they fold their big blind to no raise and be embarrassed when other players would explain they could have checked, they would also have to suffer the embarrassment of having the floor come over and warn them not to do it again or there would be penalties. It was stupid. Luckily it was short lived. The crackdown was emphasized in tournaments and cash games (especially with newbies) was loosened to understand that it would happen.

Here is my all-time favorite story regarding the big blind folding when they could have checked. The Sahara used to have a weird mixed game that ran on Friday nights ( I think...). It was $3/$6 limit and it was all sorts of crazy mixed games. One night I was playing in it just getting exposure to crazy games. There was a 5 card draw game (I don't remember which one but it wasn't important) there was a couple of limps, the small blind folds and them the big blind throws his cards forward (folding) despite being able to check. The dealer hesitates, everyone at the table us buzzing because they think the big blind folded. After a second or two of thinking, the dealer pulls all of the money in and tosses 5 new cards to the big blind. Everyone at the table starts to raise their voice to complain and the dealer immediately speaks up and says the big blind couldn't fold so clearly he was looking to draw 5 new cards. Everyone thinks for a second and nods and shuts up. Great response by the dealer. 100% legal and accurate. Great story by itself but here is where it gets better. Just a few weeks later I am dealing a $100/$200 mixed game. I was an experienced dealer overall, but at the time I had very little mixed game experience (that is why I was playing in the crappy Sahara game, i needed to learn). So I would make lots of mistakes. Most were small mistakes that I caught myself as I was making them, but still. I wasn't a good mixed game dealer yet at all. Far too many mistakes. So anyway, it is Triple Draw. There are two limps and it folds to the big blind who is engrossed in watching something on his phone. I tap the table in front of him and say action is on him. He tosses his cards forward. I let them sit and bring in the money. The other two players then declare how many they are drawing. I toss the first five cards to the big blind. Everyone starts to complain that I am messing up ( as usual since I was messing up a lot). I stop them and explain that the big blind can't fold to no raise so obviously he is drawing 5 cards. They all stop and think for a second. Everyone collectively nods and I finish dealing the draws. For 10 seconds I felt like the smartest person in the world. I am sure I effed up a burn card or a something shortly after that, but it was a good 10 seconds.

Main Event .. PokerGo stream .. folds to Blinds .. SB (who probably wanted to raise) 'Calls' with a single silent over-sized chip .. Dealer says 'call' BB looks at cards and tosses forward .. UTG says 'Wait, he thought it was a raise' .. Dealer holds cards and calls Floor Floor gives cards back .. SB bets Flop and gets raised .. SB folds 58: Non-Standard Folds Any time before the end of the final betting round, folding in turn if there’s no bet to you (ex: facing a check or first to act post-flop) or folding out of turn are binding folds subject to penalty. See also 15-B. I have a long standing track record of approving the use of Rule #1 .. but WSOP ME, on stream with OPTAH interference .. not so sure I push the cards back. GL

by answer20 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58644583#post58644583)

Main Event .. PokerGo stream .. folds to Blinds .. SB (who probably wanted to raise) 'Calls' with a single silent over-sized chip .. Dealer says 'call'BB looks at cards and tosses forward .. UTG says 'Wait, he thought it was a raise' .. Dealer holds cards and calls FloorFloor gives cards back .. SB bets Flop and gets raised .. SB folds58: Non-Standard FoldsAny time before the e... See full post

I commented on this when you added it to another thread, but thought I'd give a little more detail here. I'd be okay with it if the dealer had simply mucked the cards and shipped the pot to sb. And that's probably what should have happened, and why I say the dealer should be coached on procedures following their down. But, since the dealer didn't muck them and they're 100% identifiable when the floor arrives, mucking them at that point would be a terrible decision. The floors hands are tied, imo, the cards have to be returned to the player. Warn or penalize player after the hand if it's deemed necessary.

by answer20 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58644583#post58644583)

Main Event .. PokerGo stream .. folds to Blinds .. SB (who probably wanted to raise) 'Calls' with a single silent over-sized chip .. Dealer says 'call'BB looks at cards and tosses forward .. UTG says 'Wait, he thought it was a raise' .. Dealer holds cards and calls FloorFloor gives cards back .. SB bets Flop and gets raised .. SB folds58: Non-Standard FoldsAny time before the e... See full post

Yeah I 100% agree with you. There is a huge difference between dealing a $1/$2 cash game and the WSOP Main event. Players in the ME should be expected to know the rules, or at the very least confirm anything they are unsure of. That hand needs to be killed.

by answer20 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58644583#post58644583)

Main Event .. PokerGo stream .. folds to Blinds .. SB (who probably wanted to raise) 'Calls' with a single silent over-sized chip .. Dealer says 'call'BB looks at cards and tosses forward .. UTG says 'Wait, he thought it was a raise' .. Dealer holds cards and calls FloorFloor gives cards back .. SB bets Flop and gets raised .. SB folds58: Non-Standard FoldsAny time before the e... See full post

Blinds 5k/10k. SB has 5k chip out and silently adds 25k chips. I don't think it's entirely fair to point out that the dealer announced call while leaving out the detail that the dealer left both chips in front of the SB which added to the confusion. IMO, they should have pushed the 5k chip back to the SB. No problem with how it was handled after that. If the dealer mucks the hand, fine, but once UTG speaks up there's nothing the dealer can do other than call the floor. The hand is clearly identifiable and the confusion is understandable. Fine use of rule #1. Pointing out what happened on the flop is irrelevant to the ruling, btw. SB has nobody to blame but himself for losing the pot. Learn how to properly raise with a single chip, it's not rocket science.

1. Agree the Dealer should've pushed the 5k back. Someone mentioned how big the stream tables are .. not really an excuse as most of them are constantly standing up to pull bets in or push the pots.
2. The end result is a 6bb min or more (I think) swing to the BB's favor, which can affect future decisions/results for both stacks. While I'm usually on board with liberal use of Rule #1 it's unfortunate that, in my mind, the Dealer 'issue' in this case tilts the scale for me to return the cards to the BB. I will give some push back that mentioning the net result of the hand should be noted if not for only bringing to light that every Ruling does have an effect going forward. A 6bb swing can change the course of a tournament, even one this large, in so much that two of the FT Players in the ME were at 4-5bb at one point before turning their stacks around. GL

I have a question for experienced dealers regarding mucking folded hands. I was taught early on in my career that a dealer can never go wrong quickly mucking hands that a player folds. What I mean by muck is burying them deep in the muck so they unretrievable. It was explained to me that if you quickly mucked a folded hand, it would never be your fault. The player folded. If they folded to a misdeclared hand and their cards were unretrievable, that was their fault for folding. Not yours. If a player folds out of turn, kill the hand, it prevents any shenanigans later. You will never be blamed for killing a hand that was folded, but resurrecting a folded hand that wasn't mucked can lead to all sorts of problems. I still genuinely believe that and I would tell all new dealers to immediately muck any folded hand. Great rule of thumb for new dealers. Period. All of that said, lately I have been finding more and more reasons not to immediately muck folded hands. As I have mentioned elsewhere, the casino I work at wants to be known as being newbie friendly. As a result, I have not try to immediately muck the bignblind when they mistakenly fold to an unraised pot. As mentioned elsewhere in a thread on misdeclared hands. I have resisted immediately mucking other hands in a pot where a hand has been declared but not yet shown. Maybe it is because I consider myself a player more than a dealer, I have been finding more and more situations where I know players shouldn't yet be automatically folding their hands and I find myself delaying in mucking them. I like to think that I am doing it smartly and keeping game integrity intact, but I am also wondering if I am setting myself up to get in trouble at some point. I would love to hear some thoughts from other experienced dealers. Do you ever hesitate in mucking hands?

It's a good question. Discussing nuances of the job without laypersons butting in with "well here's what I think about it with my zero experience in the box" was one of the primary intentions of this thread discussed with administration here upon its inception. It would be nice to get back to more of that feel around here. by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58649705#post58649705)

As a result, I have not try to immediately muck the bignblind when they mistakenly fold to an unraised pot.

Spending a moment thinking about this, I believe it's game dependent for me. In low fixed limit, I push them back immediately in this spot assuming the cards are still close to them. Zero complaints about it ever that I can recall. In NL cash or any tournament they go instantly in the muck. I can't recall ever hearing a complaint about that either although it's possible there's been a grumble or two about it over the many years.

I've always advocated that the Dealers should be more involved with the game when dealing the lowest stakes in the room in an attempt to grow the game and educate the Players .. this applies to both 1/2 cash and low level tournaments. As the stakes increase the less 'active' a Dealer should be with the assumption that the understanding of the game goes hand in hand with the stakes (most of the time). Due to the expanded circumstances of a tournament beyond one table, we should lean more towards the Rules but still keep an eye on circumstantial 'education'. GL

by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58649705#post58649705)

I have not try to immediately muck the bignblind when they mistakenly fold to an unraised pot. As mentioned elsewhere in a thread on misdeclared hands. I have resisted immediately mucking other hands in a pot where a hand has been declared but not yet shown. Do you ever hesitate in mucking hands?

I will generally, but not always, muck a no-raise big blind fold. The exception is when they are money behind and haven't got the chips to put out there as a visual cue that they are the blind. I hold mucked hands at showdown if a hand has been declared, but not shown. If everyone throws them into a pile of their own accord, c'est la vie, but I will do my best to have the hand verified first.

So the place I deal at is terrible for how they treat on call employees. They won't schedule us, we have to pick up open shifts in a cattle call where part timers get the first priority. We're also forced out before anyone else, always. We're doing the annual employee engagement survey, where they ask everyone to give honest feedback about the job, management, the company... They make a big deal out of it and work to get 100% engagement. I came in early today and offered to start early if that would help. It didn't, but my supervisor made sure to tell me to do the survey while I was here. So I head there and the guy looks in the poker folder for my unique code. Can't find me. "How long have you worked here," he asks. Only ten years. Does it matter if I'm on call? "Oh yeah, I found out yesterday that on call employees can't take the survey." Wow. Well, this room constantly tells me I don't matter. Now my opinion literally doesn't matter! Last year I have generally positive views of the company, management, and co-workers, but I did mention their treatment of on call dealers was not ideal. Maybe that's the last thing they cared from me. The next time they have one of those mandatory town hall meetings that I drive two-plus hours round-trip to get an hour at $12 an hour, I'll remind them that if I don't matter for anything else, I shouldn't matter for that.

blast them anonymously on social media, TripAdvisor, google, yelp, etc. They hate that.

How many on-call employees are there? Who 'operated' the survey? (internal or 3rd party) Either way I'd suggest that they do the same survey but keep that data from on-call/part-time workers separate for analysis. While management may have turned it down I'd say the 3rd party was remis if they didn't sniff out an opportunity for more revenue. GL

Dealing a 2-5 table the other day. 6 players have their phones out and only look away from their screen when the action is on them. The other players aren't speaking at all and are either watching the tv on the wall or are silently following the poker game on the table. After about 10 minutes of this I quip, "The next time I'm at a party and someone says to me 'You're a poker dealer? You must have some crazy stories.' I'm gonna tell them about you guys!" Crickets.

by answer20 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58656948#post58656948)

How many on-call employees are there? Who 'operated' the survey? (internal or 3rd party) Either way I'd suggest that they do the same survey but keep that data from on-call/part-time workers separate for analysis. While management may have turned it down I'd say the 3rd party was remis if they didn't sniff out an opportunity for more revenue. GL

Internal survey. They really just don't care about us on call dealers.

The more I read here about what casino dealers go through with management and players, the more thankful I am to have gotten my first (and hopefully last) dealing job at a small local room. You guys shouldn't have to put up with crap like this.

by NYCNative m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58654878#post58654878)

So the place I deal at is terrible for how they treat on call employees. They won't schedule us, we have to pick up open shifts in a cattle call where part timers get the first priority. We're also forced out before anyone else, always. We're doing the annual employee engagement survey, where they ask everyone to give honest feedback about the job, management, the company... Th... See full post

We unionized about 20 years ago, and still get complaints about unfair scheduling (mostly unfounded, sometimes you have to cover on your typical days off, but mostly not different shifts). Seniority is king. I would flip if they scheduled a useless all hands meeting for dealers. We mix pit & poker and all share tokes. One of the best quotes a manager gave me is you don't have 10 years of experience you have 1 year 10 times. Really changed my perspective. I can't count the number of long time employees that transferred out of the union and didn't last for many months or years even doing the same job just as well as they had been. I'm not upset about some but am about others DM me if you want organization information.