Low-Stress Strategy Questions

Use this thread for potentially standard questions, a quick line check, or other minor nonsense that isn’t threadworthy. Spoiler Show

When replying to a post, please quote the hand and include your recommendation. For example: Hi, I was in a really deep 1/2 game last night and it was full of brilliant tags who were excellent hand readers. They were a bit bluffy though. I had c. $2,000--villains covered. PF, utg raises to $24, MP2 makes it $48 to go, CO 4 bets for $350. I look down and see 72o. What should I do here?

Aggressive 6-max high limit game $50/$100 with $100 bb ante, squeezes are not uncommon, first to act opens standard $300 (pro but not a nit) and we are playing short with 30bb, AQo in MP, we 3! 3.5x $1350 and BB puts us all in $3000, original raiser folds and we call off the last half of our stack. cooler if we run into better, or avoidable? AQo is usually a call in this configuration hj v.mp but (1) we are short and this is a pretty good hand 30bb eff. (2) do we want to risk getting squeezed out pre? and (3) the opener is not that tight and we could be ahead.

I'd think with the ante you should just rip it in over an open if you're going to play but I don't short stack nor do I play that big.

You clearly can’t 3 bet fold so yep, either flatting or 3/gii

Hero's 3B size is ridiculously large for this stack depth -- You have to call the four-bet all-in, but you basically did this to yourself. Either raise to something like 2.5x to 750, or just rip it.

At 30bb cash I think you need to take more of a tournament approach if you're dealing with 'decent' opponents. 30bb is a bit much to rip AQo to an open, so I tend to lean towards a smaller 3b and go with table dynamic against a shove. In a tournament this is 3b/fold .. and perhaps here when you include a 'non squeeze' comment as well. I've asked in other threads that we need to define 'squeeze' .. IMO it's a cold 3b/4b with a below average holding for the spot. So I don't think you can 'ever' squeeze with AA. Certainly it may 'look' like a squeeze and then you end up with AA, betting for value/isolation. So I guess a squeeze is more of a 'steal'. Anyways .. I'm a fairly conservative PF cash Player, so the AQo is getting pitched 'a lot' without other table dynamics to help lean me otherwise. GL

@answer20 I think you’re just going to go down a semantics rabbit whole with the “defining a squeeze” discussion. I get your thinking but it’s just never going to catch on. by DumbosTrunk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58598664#post58598664)

Aggressive 6-max high limit game $50/$100 with $100 bb ante, squeezes are not uncommon, first to act opens standard $300 (pro but not a nit) and we are playing short with 30bb, AQo in MP, we 3! 3.5x $1350 and BB puts us all in $3000, original raiser folds and we call off the last half of our stack. cooler if we run into better, or avoidable? AQo is usually a call in this config... See full post

Blah, I don’t really like anything here. I don’t like the 3!, I don’t like the 3! sizing and I don’t like calling it off. AQo is like the bottom of a 3! vs standard UTG range. Even if the V is loose, how loose is he? He’s a pro, so I can’t imagine even if he’s “not that tight,” that he’s going to be incompetent and should understand what is going on. I guess if we expect him to call OOP wide, it’s not as bad, but if dudes a pro, he shouldn’t really be flatting OOP much with the stack sizes. So we really should expect V either 4! or fold, and I don’t particularly like using AQo just to get folds from dominated hands. AQo would be a 3!/fold vs a 4! because we’re really never doing great vs a 4! range. We get dominated by AA/KK/QQ/AK, most Vs aren’t going to 4! a ton of Qx we dominate and minimal Ax we dominate. Do we expect V to be getting way out of line vs an uncapped range that just 3! an UTG uncapped range? So because of all of that, I just don’t think this should be a 3! The sizing you use really promotes V to 4! or fold because what actually has equity to call this raise? You could achieve basically the same equity denial by raising to like $750. The sizing used, you put 45% of your stack in, I’m not sure how you can really ever fold. If his 4! range is {QQ+, AK, AQs} you have 26.2% equity and you need to call 1650 to win 6250, so 26.4% equity. But with that being said, is he jamming that wide? V should know you can virtually never fold, so V should be jamming for pure value and never as a bluff, which is why I don’t like your call. I would guess {JJ+, AK}, which AQo would be 28.1% against, so a call is slightly +EV I think my line for this hand is to call the UTG open. We either get to see a flop and play poker IP or someone squeezes. If someone squeezes and UTG 4! we get to fold for cheap. If UTG calls, we can evaluate fold/call/jam. If UTG folds, we can call AI or jam ourselves with an underrepped hand.

AQo is like the bottom of a 3! vs standard UTG range.

At 6-max, isn't UTG the new just the lowjack and not really supposed to be the same range as 8 or 9 handed UTG?

by donkatruck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58599883#post58599883)

At 6-max, isn't UTG the new just the lowjack and not really supposed to be the same range as 8 or 9 handed UTG?

What do you think an appropriate LJ opening range is in an aggressive 50/100 (100 ante) game? And then after that, what do you think an appropriate 3! range to the above range is when you’re 30bb effective?

by johnny_on_the_spot m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58600189#post58600189)

What do you think an appropriate LJ opening range is in an aggressive 50/100 (100 ante) game? And then after that, what do you think an appropriate 3! range to the above range is when you’re 30bb effective?

I am not even contemplating playing these stakes but my guess is if it's aggressive the LJ rfi range is something like 88+/AT+/Axs/KQ/KJs/QJs/JTs/9Ts/KTs/K9s. I would be 3-betting AQs+/JJ+/KQs/AQo+. I would say AQo would be near bottom of 3-bet range I just don't see how its not a 3-bet. I could be entirely wrong but my point was 6-max "utg" is much different than 8 or 9 max.

by donkatruck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58600358#post58600358)

I am not even contemplating playing these stakes but my guess is if it's aggressive the LJ rfi range is something like 88+/AT+/Axs/KQ/KJs/QJs/JTs/9Ts/KTs/K9s. I would be 3-betting AQs+/JJ+/KQs/AQo+. I would say AQo would be near bottom of 3-bet range I just don't see how it’s not a 3-bet. I could be entirely wrong but my point was 6-max "utg" is much different than 8 or 9 max.

Because stack sizes are relevant. Most of the time, these steaks are played ungodly deep, and then it’s not a problem because V can play with a large number of hands we’re ahead of. But we’re 30bb deep; what is V doing after he gets 3!? He can’t really do anything other than 4! or fold. We are crushed against a 4! range and using AQo to pick up a single raise against weak hand is just poor utilization of a hand as strong as AQo

by johnny_on_the_spot m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58600430#post58600430)

Because stack sizes are relevant. Most of the time, these steaks are played ungodly deep, and then it’s not a problem because V can play with a large number of hands we’re ahead of. But we’re 30bb deep; what is V doing after he gets 3!? He can’t really do anything other than 4! or fold. We are crushed against a 4! range and using AQo to pick up a single ... See full post

Totally disagree. Villain is opening 3bbs. If we 3b and take it down pre, we immediately win 3bbs (open) + 1bb (BB blind)+ 1bb (BB ante) + 0.5bb (SB blind). We are adding 5.5bbs to our 30bb stack if we 3b and take it down. There is no rake in this game. So we are adding more than 18% to our stack when we take it down preflop uncontested. That's not insignificant at all. There are a lot of spots in MTTs where someone will open shove 10bbs to take down SB/BB/ante to add 25% or so ot Hero's stack. MTTs tend to feature some chip preservation due to ICM. This is a cash game where we don't have to worry about chip preservation and ICM considerations. So 3b AQ offsuit here to add 18% to our stack uncontested is actually pretty similar to open shoving 10bbs in an MTT to pick up blinds/antes. BTW, we are not crushed by the opener's 4b range. His willingness to 4b wide against a short stack is significantly higher than his willingness to 4b wide versus a deep stack.

I think opener should be opening somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-23%. We can probably 3bet maybe 5-6% AQo is in there and shouldn't fold.

by donkatruck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58600358#post58600358)

I am not even contemplating playing these stakes but my guess is if it's aggressive the LJ rfi range is something like 88+/AT+/Axs/KQ/KJs/QJs/JTs/9Ts/KTs/K9s.

With an ante in play, the lowjack open should be wider than in a standard 6max game, not narrower.

by DumbosTrunk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58598664#post58598664)

cooler if we run into better, or avoidable?

Getting stacked playing with a 30bb stack in an ante game is unavoidable.

by RaiseAnnounced m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58601318#post58601318)

Getting stacked playing with a 30bb stack in an ante game is unavoidable.

Alternative question. At some stack depth you can raise/fold AQ. How does one solve for that X stack depth.

I would suggest reading “Kill Everyone”. This is essentially a tournament question since its short stacks and zero rake (and zero icm, which is basically true when far from the money). Kill everyone suggests a “resteal” period up to 15 CSI (basically stack size divided by all the money in the pot, so here you have 12 CSI, although if you implement this strategy id expect you to get to 13-15 CSI somewhat often by blindstealing) where you should be 3 bet jamming over 2-2.5x raises, and it gives a table of ranges based on your opponent’s perceived raising range, and youll be jamming far wider than whats suggested here especially in btn vs BB type situations.

by DeadMoneyWalking m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58601849#post58601849)

Alternative question. At some stack depth you can raise/fold AQ. How does one solve for that X stack depth.

I'll answer your question this way: Solving HU shove or fold scenarios is your basic semi-bluffing math that any endeavoring poker player should be able to solve quite easily. You solve for the MDF of the defender by seeing how much the shover is winning by stealing (ie: pot * fold equity) PLUS how much they win when called and win (ie: size of the pot when called (ie: pot+2*bet) times your equity when called[1] times how often they're calling (ie: 1-FE))) EQUALS how much you lose when called and lose (ie: bet times 1-equity times 1-FE). Then you can use THAT fold equity to solve for the range the stealer can shove with that would be worth at least 0ev using the same semi-bluff math. [1] You can use a placeholder range with a sample of representative hands from an example "too wide" shoving range to get a good enough answer here IMO. Solving for 3-way shove or fold scenarios is something anyone can do who doesn't get PTSD doing high school level math. Compounding probabilities means you have to use the FOIL method to solve for (1-FE)^2, you'll be using the quadratic formula, all that fun stuff, and of course the equation is exponentially longer because you're solving for when both fold, when one calls, when the other calls, and when both call. I've done it by hand a small handful of times, and that's enough for me to feel like I get the gist and not solve for it myself again. Solving 4-way+ shove or fold spots is beyond my ability and/or patience to solve by hand, though it doesn't involve any concepts beyond what I've already done; the equations are just much larger. But that doesn't answer your question: you didn't ask about a shove or fold spot. You asked about raising and then folding. This is adding two layers of complexity: 1.

1. Now your stealing range can't just account for opponents reaching a minimum defense threshold and shoving a range that can't be exploited by that. It now has to account for all the ways each of the restealing strategies each of the villains can take.

2. Then you have to do MDF maths for yourself against their resteals. Honestly, though, this is the easy part. The hard part is knowing what your steal range is in the first place in light of this expanded tree.

And you didn't ask about what should your range be: you asked at what stack size does a given hand become (specifically) a raise/fold. That involves solving for a different variable, which I don't know how to answer. I imagine it's something someone who's better at algebra could answer quite easily, but I'm kicking the can. In other words, some of the underlying math is pretty straightforward, and I think anyone serious about playing short stack and tournaments should be conversant in that math so they can have a more intuitive understanding to both aid memory and to bridge the gaps where memory won't serve you. BUT it's unreasonable to expect anyone to answer these questions by hand from scratch for a 6-handed game and (as Tomark pointed out) much smarter people and machines have already created charts that answer these questions.

Truly, a low-stress strat question.

$1-$2 but I put on a $4 UTG live-straddle. CO open limps, Button limps, SB limps, BB limps, we check 82ss in the BB and see a flop 5 ways. Flop: KsQsTd. SB checks, BB checks, we check, CO checks. Button bets $20. Both blinds fold. Button started the hand with $200 and we cover. What should we do?

Is it too late to take back the straddle?

by davomalvolio m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58606482#post58606482)

$1-$2 but I put on a $4 UTG live-straddle. CO open limps, Button limps, SB limps, BB limps, we check 82ss in the BB and see a flop 5 ways. Flop: KsQsTd. SB checks, BB checks, we check, CO checks. Button bets $20. Both blinds fold. Button started the hand with $200 and we cover. What should we do?

We're getting poor 2:1 odds (not even if you include rake) to chase a pretty obvious draw OOP (noting that 3 of our outs put a 4-liner on board for even worse IO). And I'm not looking to attempt to get anyone off their hand that has just PSB the flop versus the world. But I've seen some of your HHs, so obviously inb4 you call, bink the Js, and then get paid off for stacks in a raising war with 77, ldo. GStep1:playinagreatgame;Step2:therearenootherstepsG

"Don't go broke in a limped pot"

1. You Straddled .. what's your range image when UTG/Straddle?
2. The Board is all cards you could/should've raised with, eh? So what's your story when you Donk-lead Turn?
3. You have an obvious draw with bad odds and even worse reverse implied odds .. but you could chop running 9-J
4. Is this Player going to pay you on Turn or River .. Is this Player going to go broke chasing a 4-flush?
5. Can you steal from B with a polar River Donk?
6. What does a pot bet mean from B? (It's the right thing to do regardless of holdings IMO) Just don't see long term gain from this spot .. I just fold, showing the 2s and saying "Flush no good" .. GL

by gobbledygeek m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58607195#post58607195)

We're getting poor 2:1 odds (not even if you include rake) to chase a pretty obvious draw OOP (noting that 3 of our outs put a 4-liner on board for even worse IO). And I'm not looking to attempt to get anyone off their hand that has just PSB the flop versus the world.But I've seen some of your HHs, so obviously inb4 you call, bink the Js, and then get paid off for stacks in a ... See full post

I just folded it. Like a WOMAN.

take your politics to the trans thread

River sizing here? Table has been exceptionally passive (hence my overlimp pre) but Villain is new and seems action. UTG (old guy) limps. Hero limps UTG1 with 2d2h. 3 more complete including V in SB. Flop: T22ccs (pot: $25). Checks to UTG who bets $15. Hero calls. Folds to V who calls. 3 ways to turn. Turn: T22ccs 5c ($70). Checks to Hero who bets $60. V calls. UTG folds. River: T22ccs 5c 4c ($190) $400 behind. Bet small and target something like JcTx? Jam for 2x pot cause he never folds the Ac if he somehow has it? Surely he can’t have a full house here right?

Mostly I lean to jam. Very weak hands likely aren't calling anything. New action players are unlikely to fold Ac+ (especially if they are unaware of any nitty image we may have) but aren't going to raise themselves due to paired board. In general people don't bluff enough to attempt to induce. We sometimes feel like an idiot when they manage to fold something that would have paid off a reasonable bet, but the times they do manage to call the large overbet will make up for that. Might argue different in well known nit-on-nit situation, but against unknowns I would always go for the gold here. Still a hand haunting me from earlier this year when I did not follow my own advice that likely cost me a BI+. GcluelessNLnoobG

Do you think v pays with Ac to 2x pot? Unless he’s absolutely clueless , seems like a snap fold with Ac to 2x, 2x pot is mainly only targeting boats. I’d go with pot, targeting Ac and boats will jam regardless.

by Joe-exotic69 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58688587#post58688587)

Do you think v pays with Ac to 2x pot? Unless he’s absolutely clueless , seems like a snap fold with Ac to 2x, 2x pot is mainly only targeting boats. I’d go with pot, targeting Ac and boats will jam regardless.

I agree that a good player should be able to fold the Ac to 2x pot. I think a bad player always calls though. Does a slightly below average player call? I’m not sure. Full pot seems like a nice compromise between jam and small bet. by gobbledygeek m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58688534#post58688534)

Mostly I lean to jam. Very weak hands likely aren't calling anything. New action players are unlikely to fold Ac+ (especially if they are unaware of any nitty image we may have) but aren't going to raise themselves due to paired board. In general people don't bluff enough to attempt to induce.We sometimes feel like an idiot when they manage to fold something that would have ... See full post

Thanks GG. I think I agree with you. Although you did get one thing wrong. Spoiler Show

Hero bets $125. Villain quickly jams. Hero snaps. Villain shows Ac7s for the epic overplay. Couldn’t believe he jammed this. Really regretted my sizing after because it would have been a shame to miss out on so much value if V didn’t make the spew jam

$75 - $100 for some value. He will probably shove boats and might call w/ flush. Unless he is an idiot or thinks you are, he is not calling much more. Edit: LOL. Just saw results.

by Javanewt m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58688611#post58688611)

$75 - $100 for some value. He will probably shove boats and might call w/ flush. Unless he is an idiot or thinks you are, he is not calling much more. Edit: LOL. Just saw results. Idiot.

Lol yeah. You and I were basically on the same thought process. I thought it was an awful river but I guess not!

rts I'm just betting around 100 hoping his counterfeit hands will still call.

by Playbig2000 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58688616#post58688616)

rts I'm just betting around 100 hoping his counterfeit hands will still call.

Sorry, wasn’t sure of the protocol for posting results in this thread. I’ll wait longer next time. Thanks for the feedback though, happy to see another poster choosing a sizing in the same ballpark as mine.

Lol @ villain. Gstep1:playwithidiots;step2:therearenootherstepsG

HU in position on river, we should essentially never be betting small for value, even thin value. And consequently we should never be betting small with our bluffs. So our choice here is either betting a larger size like 2/3 - 3/4 pot or bombing it (because obviously quads is not in our checkback range). Hero's 125 is not a bad choice.

by Dan GK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58688516#post58688516)

River sizing here? Table has been exceptionally passive (hence my overlimp pre) but Villain is new and seems action.UTG (old guy) limps. Hero limps UTG1 with 2d2h. 3 more complete including V in SB. Flop: T22ccs (pot: $25). Checks to UTG who bets $15. Hero calls. Folds to V who calls. 3 ways to turn.Turn: T22ccs 5c ($70). Checks to Hero who bets $60. V calls. UTG folds.River: T... See full post

Check behind, only getting action from straight flush.

by Mlark m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58688918#post58688918)

Check behind, only getting action from straight flush.

The inner nit in me sigh-called the river expecting to see a straight flush and knowing my room’s $85k BBJ would not be triggered (needs to be quad fives or better).

2/5 1k effective Utg+1 opens 15 main vilain, young asian kid 4k stack, giving off reggish vibes or rich asian parents, maybe both. Btn fish 50 yo calls 200$ stack Sb 60 yo woman fish 500$ calls I flat in bb with QsJc my second hand at the table, 1k stack Flop QdTs7c (60$) Checks around Turn QdTs7c Td (60$) I check, utg+1 bets 20$, btn and sb folds i call River QdTs7c TdTc (100$) I check, utg+1 snap bets 200$

by Joe-exotic69 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58702335#post58702335)

2/5 1k effectiveUtg+1 opens 15 main vilain, young asian kid 4k stack, giving off reggish vibes or rich asian parents, maybe both.Btn fish 50 yo calls 200$ stackSb 60 yo woman fish 500$ callsI flat in bb with QsJc my second hand at the table, 1k stackFlop QdTs7c (60$)Checks aroundTurn QdTs7c Td (60$)I check, utg+1 bets 20$, btn and sb folds i callRiver QdTs7c TdTc (100$)I check,... See full post

Fold pre. Seriously. Your range should tighten up substantially when the action is multiway. Yes, you are getting a "good price." This is an illusion, because you are substantially out of position, and it is going to be very difficult to realize your equity if you flop anything. In particular, QJo plays horribly multiway. Throw it away. As played, river should be a snap-call, if you think there is the slightest chance villain plays JJ, 99, or 7X this way.

Looks like a pretty easy fold. You need to risk $200 to win $50 if he has a Q. P.S. PF cheese is still cheese, even if it's cheap.

Definitely fold pre. River is obviously a call in theory, and I'll just have to trust your vibe read since I wasn't there. I don't think I can fold with second boat against someone wearing a designer shirt, double shuffling their chips, and cracking their gum or whatever.

$1/$2 game at Mohegan Sun on Wednesday afternoon. It is a “Mystery High Hand” day AND a “Double Momentum Dollars” day (aka $4/hr in promos) so the room is packed. I have recently table-changed to escape an extremely tight-passive and elderly table and have very few reads in this new game. Sitting with almost exactly $400 (the table max) and both the PFR and main villain in this hand cover me. 4c4d Main V (loose passive MAAG) in the hand open limps in EP, older white guy in MP raises $10 next to act, nittier player calls in MP, I am in CO and overcall, and the limper comes along. Flop is KK5r ($43 before rake) and checks around. Turn is KK5 4ss ($43 before rake) EP limper leads for $20, PFR calls, and I just call. River is KK54 Qsss ($103 before rake) EP limper bets $55, PFR folds, and it is on me with around ~$360 back. My main question here is on a river raise size. Is jamming for nearly 200bb too thin with bottom full house? It does cross my mind that I could be beat, although I don’t think villain is open limping KQ and this line with K5s or 55 is pretty awful. I wish I took note of all the suits to know exactly how many combos of K5s and K4s were available. Do $1/$2 players always call off with something like KJo or A8ss? If so, is choosing a non-all-in size, like $190, missing a ton of value? Is it ever possible to find a bet-fold sizing here in the event that V is somehow betting this small with a better full house?

by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713187#post58713187)

$1/$2 game at Mohegan Sun on Wednesday afternoon. It is a “Mystery High Hand” day AND a “Double Momentum Dollars” day (aka $4/hr in promos) so the room is packed.I have recently table-changed to escape an extremely tight-passive and elderly table and have very few reads in this new game. Sitting with almost exactly $400 (the table max) and both the PFR and main villain in this ... See full post

Why is limp/calling 55 or K5s bad, when you are overcalling 44? River is much worst spot than turn to put more money in IMO, although you probably still have to raise. Probably similar to betting flop. Some loose passives (esp. from EP) will have a decent amount of KQo here. raise 2x pot (7x bet) seems... exploitive. by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713187#post58713187)

Do $1/$2 players always call off with something like KJo or A8ss?

No, do some of them do sometimes ... I guess. KJo would be a huge punt, A8s seems pretty bad but maybe more likely. Just seems like a bad, and transparent, strategy to call down and then shove river huge with top N value hands. Esp. on bad cards like this. Would be difficult to work out if you get paid off 4x more often enough from population with $135, plus the savings when they shove and you fold. by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713187#post58713187)

Is it ever possible to find a bet-fold sizing here in the event that V is somehow betting this small with a better full house?

Do you think they ever bluff 3bet or value own themselves with worse?

actually this is probably a good question for the thread how does one table change with etiquette? i always feel awkward doing it, so i tend to do it with the floor quietly while i'm up on break and then if/when i get the change i'll make some comment like "you guys are too good, scared to play with you" or something or say if there'd been a running joke about someone farting I'd work with that like "tired of getting crop dusted" or if i'm down then it's really easy "tired of losing money to you guys" as for this by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713187#post58713187)

Do $1/$2 players always call off with something like KJo or A8ss? If so, is choosing a non-all-in size, like $190, missing a ton of value? Is it ever possible to find a bet-fold sizing here in the event that V is somehow betting this small with a better full house?

this should answer your question by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713187#post58713187)

$1/$2 game at Mohegan Sun on Wednesday afternoon. It is a “Mystery High Hand” day AND a “Double Momentum Dollars” day (aka $4/hr in promos) so the room is packed.

you have an open limper, someone who opened small, and nobody 3bet, in fact, it's somewhat odd the blinds didn't stick around as well. you can accurately put the tables range anywhere from 27o to AA in this spot without better player specific reads can easily see someone checking a king on that rainbow board so flush draws are definitely active since they faced no pressure when there was no draw as played, again, it's hard to say what villian will do without much of a read here there's definitely villians in the population who will stack off with a naked king here despite paired board and flush draw there's also a far more common villain who won't fold a flush on a paired board, some even won't fold a weak flush i think it's a safe assumption that villain is not bluffing, he has AA as a floor here and far more likely Kx+ i also think you can't discount K4o and K5o, although far less likely, there's a lot of people in the 1/2 pool who are 80+ vpipping because they'll play face rag offsuit all the time as for sizing, again, at this level, it's all about personal exploits based on player reads - i know we're readless here, but based on him being described as loose/passive i'd not jam here because if he's passive then he's more likely to fold his flushes and trips i'd probably raise to 155 total of something like that, maybe a little less, to make him feel priced in to call and then fold if he shoves because he's never doing that without a boat and if he has a boat we're definitely beat

by illiterat m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713217#post58713217)

Why is limp/calling 55 or K5s bad, when you are overcalling 44?

Sorry, I guess I meant more along the lines of betting half-pot on flush-completing river seeming like a bad line with a huge value hand. In-game I was planning on potentially just calling river if he bet pot or overbet, but this sizing, from this player, felt more like Kx or a flush than a boat. I wasn't critiquing his pre-flop play and am certainly willing to accept that my own play of overcalling CO with a small pocket pair is losing. To your other points, I agree that calling down and shoving feels bad and transparent. I also agree that I should be finding turn raises in these spots, and should be working in some Kx and bluffs so it's not just turned boats that raise. I am certain the average player isn't finding a lot of bet-3b river bluffs (though I guess 54s would be somewhat of a clearcut choice here) but not so certain that they don't hugely overvalue hands in these spots. The reality is that I would have a hard time folding 44 here if I raised $135 and he jammed for $225 more...

yeah not raising the turn 3 handed was a major gaffe imo

by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713237#post58713237)

I am certain the average player isn't finding a lot of bet-3b river bluffs (though I guess 54s would be somewhat of a clearcut choice here) but not so certain that they don't hugely overvalue hands in these spots. The reality is that I would have a hard time folding 44 here if I raised $135 and he jammed for $225 more...

honestly man, you're overthinking 1-2 - none of those people are good at poker nor have any real understanding of it so you can't act as if they do crushing a 1-2 game pays about the same as working a register but without paid time off, 401k, healthcare and other benefits there may be competent players such as yourself, the occasional good player when there's nothing higher spreading, but it's going to be mostly people who are there for fun covering a spectrum of knowledge from viewing it no differently than playing blackjack to someone who has done some basic study so don't even consider the possibility of them having 54s because they don't and if they magically do it's such an outlier that it's not worth studying for - ie you'll occasionally get someone 4betting J8s because it's their favorite hand but that doesn't mean you should begin including J8s in a 4bet shoving range for 1-2 just because you've seen someone do it - the proper adjustment is to just be a little less certain about their exact holdings knowing how derpy your opponent could be at times in your earlier example of KJo, while definitely unlikely that hand calls a shove from you, i've seen board like there where someone calls with ace high in these situations because they have the ace of spades thinking "oh this means i block the flush" wholly unaware that there's much scarier hands on this board than a flush look at the j4 hand and how it's a reasonable argument to say she didn't cheat (i think she did fwiw) simply because people do really stupid things all the time in poker

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713229#post58713229)

actually this is probably a good question for the threadhow does one table change with etiquette?i always feel awkward doing it, so i tend to do it with the floor quietly while i'm up on break and then if/when i get the change i'll make some comment like "you guys are too good, scared to play with you" or something or say if there'd been a running joke about someone farting I'd... See full post

I don't like to be a burden on the floor, so I usually wait until there is open seating. I would also feel weird about rejecting a table change so I try to make sure that there are definitely better seats available. I don't tend to worry about offending my tablemates -- in fact, I think the people I try to avoid playing with at Mohegan Sun (the ultra tight-passive limp-folders) prefer not to play with me anyway. They would rather continue to see flops for cheap, particularly during a high hand promo. Shortly before I left this table I witnessed a three-way top boat vs. trips vs. nut flush hand where the final pot was barely more than $40 and the winner seemed content because she got to chase quads for the HH. by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713229#post58713229)

you have an open limper, someone who opened small, and nobody 3bet, in fact, it's somewhat odd the blinds didn't stick around as well. you can accurately put the tables range anywhere from 27o to AA in this spot without better player specific readscan easily see someone checking a king on that rainbow board so flush draws are definitely active since they faced no pressure when... See full post

Appreciate the feedback. I agree that ranges are probably wider than I am considering. This particular limper did have an open-raising range, so I eliminated a lot of the stronger hands (including potentially a lot of KQ combos) from consideration. Also agreed that he is not bluffing and that something like 155 will basically always get called by worse hands, even by something as weak as K2o or 23ss.

by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713399#post58713399)

I don't like to be a burden on the floor, so I usually wait until there is open seating. I would also feel weird about rejecting a table change so I try to make sure that there are definitely better seats available.

yeah i really struggle in wanting to "scout" other tables without making it obvious that's what i'm doing i sort of default to stack sizes, if there's more 2 or more massive stacks it's probably a pretty loose game but there's been a bunch of times where i picked based off that and it was a very tight group of omcs who apparently must have coolered some people before i arrived by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713399#post58713399)

this particular limper did have an open-raising range, so I eliminated a lot of the stronger hands (including potentially a lot of KQ combos) from consideration. Also agreed that he is not bluffing and that something like 155 will basically always get called by worse hands, even by something as weak as K2o or 23ss.

now this is way more valuable than middle aged loose passive asian - knowing he probably wouldn't limp KQ i think we can feel a lot better about the overall strength of our hand and this also discounts quite a bit of K4o and K5o - unsure if it would change how much i size it up at the end, but would be far less concerned i'm beat and more concerned about extracting the max from his naked king or flush

by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713399#post58713399)

I don't like to be a burden on the floor, so I usually wait until there is open seating. I would also feel weird about rejecting a table change so I try to make sure that there are definitely better seats available.

I feel like if the table is bad enough to table change then it's worth it to just roll the dice on next available table, which is likely to be better due to the law of averages

by JackInDaCrak m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713600#post58713600)

I feel like if the table is bad enough to table change then it's worth it to just roll the dice on next available table, which is likely to be better due to the law of averages

how do you go about it though?

I'd tell the floor that I want a table change. I have no qualms with offending the other players at the poker table, they're all there to take my money, what do I care?

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713325#post58713325)

honestly man, you're overthinking 1-2 - none of those people are good at poker nor have any real understanding of it so you can't act as if they docrushing a 1-2 game pays about the same as working a register but without paid time off, 401k, healthcare and other benefitsthere may be competent players such as yourself, the occasional good player when there's nothing higher sprea... See full post

The siren song of the TAGfish: "I post about poker with other randos, so I'm obviously better than everyone else at this table. Who has the patience to think beyond Level 0, anyway?"

by Always Fondling m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58714572#post58714572)

The siren song of the TAGfish: "I post about poker with other randos, so I'm obviously better than everyone else at this table. Who has the patience to think beyond Level 0, anyway?"

you clearly misunderstood my post

by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713187#post58713187)

$1/$2 game at Mohegan Sun on Wednesday afternoon. It is a “Mystery High Hand” day AND a “Double Momentum Dollars” day (aka $4/hr in promos) so the room is packed.I have recently table-changed to escape an extremely tight-passive and elderly table and have very few reads in this new game. Sitting with almost exactly $400 (the table max) and both the PFR a... See full post

Very good chance that you should be continuing on turn so tight that you might as well just use a raise or fold strategy. Shoving river is almost 2xp, so that definitely seems ambitious. You wanna cram that much when you're the one doing the coolering, not when you've got 6th boat in a spot where no one has worse than trips. I think I just make it 3x honestly.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713229#post58713229)

how does one table change with etiquette?i always feel awkward doing it, so i tend to do it with the floor quietly while i'm up on break and then if/when i get the change i'll make some comment like "you guys are too good, scared to play with you" or something or say if there'd been a running joke about someone farting I'd work with that like "tired of getting crop dusted" or i... See full post

If you're doing it because they're all nits, then who cares about etiquette. Say "this table sucks, not enough action, Imma go somewhere I can gamb00l gamb00l" call them pussies and give them the middle finger for all I care. Thinking nits are bad for the game isn't exclusive to being a cardshark or whatever.

been running like sh*t for 6 months at 1/3 so im playing 1/3 shortstacked for $200 and trying to run up and if not just quit for the day. i start out playing like vpip 10 pfr 9 and if i get deeper then widening somewhat to maybe 17/15 or something. some pf plays - too nitty? i have the shortstack at $240. 3 limps. tag makes it $20 OTB. i have 77 in the sb, i fold. i have the shortstack at $375. nitty tag opens $15 UTG, old guy who hasnt 3b in a few hours makes in $35 UTG+2, i have AKs OTB. i fold. i have KK at $375. UTG very old nit limps. UTG+2 makes it $15. I 3b to $50 with KK CO. UTG old nit 4b to $175. i fold. i have ATs in MP at $300. UTG+1 old guy makes it $20 i fold. and, fwiw, im not old. im like 40 (imagine what a nit ill be at age 70?)

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715557#post58715557)

some pf plays - too nitty? i have KK at $375. UTG very old nit limps. UTG+2 makes it $15. I 3b to $50 with KK CO. UTG old nit 4b to $175. i fold.

I can shrug at most of them, but not this unless you had godlike reads that it's always AA ... and if you did you wouldn't post it here. I'll even shrug at folding QQ here vs. some people, but not KK. Not in 2024. by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715557#post58715557)

i have the shortstack at $240. 3 limps. tag makes it $20 OTB. i have 77 in the sb, i fold.

This seems the next closest ... would raise and maybe just shove 99, would be fine folding 55 and likely 66. 88/77 are both borderline.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713229#post58713229)

actually this is probably a good question for the threadhow does one table change with etiquette?i always feel awkward doing it, so i tend to do it with the floor quietly while i'm up on break and then if/when i get the change i'll make some comment like "you guys are too good, scared to play with you" or something or say if there'd been a running joke about someone farting I'd... See full post

This certainly counts as a not-threadworthy, low-stress question. 😉 A discreet request to a floor person does the job. Once you get called to the new table, you don't need to explain yourself, any more than you need to explain yourself when you pick up to go home.

by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58713399#post58713399)

I don't like to be a burden on the floor, so I usually wait until there is open seating. I would also feel weird about rejecting a table change so I try to make sure that there are definitely better seats available.

This makes about as much sense as saying, "I don't like to be a burden on the cashier, so I wait until the line goes away before I bring my groceries to the register." We are asking the floor person to do their job. I personally might tip them a buck or two, just as I tip them when I ask for a meal break (so I get more time than just three missed blind buttons).

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58716099#post58716099)

This makes about as much sense as saying, "I don't like to be a burden on the cashier, so I wait until the line goes away before I bring my groceries to the register." We are asking the floor person to do their job. I personally might tip them a buck or two, just as I tip them when I ask for a meal break (so I get more time than just three missed blind buttons).

Well, I also always bag my own groceries to avoid being a burden on the cashier, so old habits die hard I guess... by RaiseAnnounced m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715022#post58715022)

Very good chance that you should be continuing on turn so tight that you might as well just use a raise or fold strategy. Shoving river is almost 2xp, so that definitely seems ambitious. You wanna cram that much when you're the one doing the coolering, not when you've got 6th boat in a spot where no one has worse than trips. I think I just make it 3x honestly.

Agreed, thanks for the feedback. If you 3x here are you snap folding to a jam? Thanks to everyone else who responded. The result of this hand is a bit of a disaster... Spoiler Show

I did decide to jam. My thought process in-game was that I couldn’t find a good bet-fold sizing, and villain’s bet sizing led me to believe that he always had a Kx or flush hand anyway. I wanted the max and believed that most $1/$2 villains would struggle to fold those hands here. In hindsight, I don’t think I took enough time to consider how deep we were and exactly how big my jam was… Villain tanked for almost a full minute. By the end of his tank, I was begging for a call in my head. He did end up calling, I showed, and he turned over 55. It felt bad at the time, obviously, and worse afterwards. I still think that villain tanking here is a bit of a nitroll, but if he was struggling to call with a full house, clearly he is snap folding a worse hand, so it’s just a really bad sizing. The sunnier coda to this hand is that I ended up taking a long break afterwards and came back to a new table that was among the best I have played at all year, so I was able to make most of my money back just by playing relatively solidly. Mental game is still one of my biggest weak points, so I am happy with how I handled everything. Appreciate the advice from everyone.

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715557#post58715557)

been running like sh*t for 6 months at 1/3 so im playing 1/3 shortstacked for $200 and trying to run up and if not just quit for the day. i start out playing like vpip 10 pfr 9 and if i get deeper then widening somewhat to maybe 17/15 or something.some pf plays - too nitty?i have the shortstack at $240. 3 limps. tag makes it $20 OTB. i have 77 in the sb, i fold.i have the short... See full post

If you suck deep, there's nothing wrong with cutting your session short some of the time if you do run it up deep and the table conditions aren't the best (especially when you aren't in the best mental frame of mind, which on a downswing you often aren't). Although most times if you're shortstacking correctly you can often go hours nursing it and there are no deepstrack re-evaluations to be made. All of the folds are obviously nitty. They are are also all completely fine, imo. GbutI'mahugenit,ldoG

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715557#post58715557)

been running like sh*t for 6 months at 1/3 so im playing 1/3 shortstacked for $200 and trying to run up and if not just quit for the day. i start out playing like vpip 10 pfr 9 and if i get deeper then widening somewhat to maybe 17/15 or something.

fwiw, this seems just incredible boring. there are plenty of other things to do that aren't sitting at a poker table watching chips get passed around while you stare at the dealer. and have you been running like sht or playing like sht? they are different and if it's the latter, playing ultra nitty isn't going to help. you're just trying to reduce variance by avoiding spots that aren't massively ahead but ultimately you'll just lose chips slower. honestly, i'm not sure if it's the former that playing ultra nitty will really help either. typically playing nitty just allows others to have a better understanding of what your range is, thus making it easier to play against you. by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715557#post58715557)

Hand 1: i have the shortstack at $240. 3 limps. tag makes it $20 OTB. i have 77 in the sb, i fold.

this is probably way over nitty. your standard 1/3 player will just call the $20 here and check/fold OTF unless they flop a set or OESD. a better situation would be to learn if the BTN is a player you can 3! and get to fold now or on a later street. by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715557#post58715557)

Hand 2: i have the shortstack at $375. nitty tag opens $15 UTG, old guy who hasnt 3b in a few hours makes in $35 UTG+2, i have AKs OTB. i fold.

instead of telling us UTG2 has not 3! in a few hours, in which V could have had any hand every hand, tell us what you're seeing UTG2 get to showdown with when they cold call. if you're seeing them cold call and get to SD with AK/AQ/AJ/QQ/JJ then this could be a disrespectful fold (ie a fold that should never happen and thus we are disrespecting their game for being so face up), but if you're not it could be that they just haven't gotten very many hands over a few hours by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715557#post58715557)

Hand 3: i have KK at $375. UTG very old nit limps. UTG+2 makes it $15. I 3b to $50 with KK CO. UTG old nit 4b to $175. i fold.

this one is though. i understand why you're assuming it's AA basically always. 1/3 players are typically not going to limp/raise much other than AA and it's doubful they limp/cold 4! really anything other than AA or possibly KK. we have KK, so that makes it more likely for the AA. unfortunately, unlike the previous hand, you're just never going to play with this guy enough to get anywhere near a good understanding of if this is anything other than AA unless he just does it routenly. blah, i guess folding is fine here. calling sucks because we're $200 eff with $350 in the middle, so we can't fold unless an A flops, so we're basically getting it in on a very high % of flops. by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58715557#post58715557)

Hand 4: i have ATs in MP at $300. UTG+1 old guy makes it $20 i fold.

def nitty. same as with hand 2, would like to know what V is showing up with when he opens. is he raising 99/88/77? or broadway Kx, Qx? alternatively, like hand 1, it would be more useful to you to learn and understand if V is someone who you could 3! now and take the pot away either now or post flop.

@ Johnny 3betting at these stack sizes is going to create very small SPRs where it will prolly be quite difficult to get someone off better. Obviously all the folds would be nitty. But they are all kinda close spots too. You could argue to do something different in each case. But folding is hardly a mistake in any of them, especially if your confidence is shaken and you can't continue to take the mental beatdowns that poker is currently throwing you. GLLSNLiseasyenoughtobeatwherewewecanpassonborderlinespots,imoG

by gobbledygeek m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58718990#post58718990)

@ Johnny 3betting at these stack sizes is going to create very small SPRs where it will prolly be quite difficult to get someone off better.

you're glossing over the whole areas where i ask other relavent information

I'm not meaning to totally gloss it over and I agree further information can certainly be relevant... I'm just saying that overall it's relevance is reduced as the SPR shrinks (where it is harder to "outplay" opponents). GcluelessshortstackingnoobG

Johnny, maybe this is the thread where someone can convince GG to play looser than 8VPIP?

8 VPIP = maniac, right? Gtightisright,buttighterisrighter,imoG

by JackInDaCrak m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58719921#post58719921)

Johnny, maybe this is the thread where someone can convince GG to play looser than 8VPIP?

there is a reason i had a 1 sentence response to him and not a post with a more in-depth discussion. not my first rodeo.

This one for sub... Foxwoods on a big tier credit day HJ has only been at the table for like 7-12 hands but has limp/called all of them, also playing them "weird" post. Sounds French, and seems like he's pretending he has no idea ... but is obviously playing way too loose pre. Played one hand with him where I raised Axs from his limp, HU bet a flop with some minor draws and A high and he called so I checked down and he had AK. Has called and bet rivers IP when it made no sense and people folded also shown 2 pair when it was super any2 bottom pair on flop type. Did get called on call/call/bet IP later and just said "I have nothing, was just bluffing". CO old guy limp/calling entire range folds to HJ limps CO limps H on BTN makes it 12 with T9s folds to HJ HJ call CO call Flop: 876hh, x, x, H bets 15, c, c Turn: 876hh 8, x, x, H bets 25, c, c River: 8768 4, V snap shoves 210, snap calls (but only has like 50), H tanks and thinks nobody is bluffing here but can hear ghosts of submersible saying "lol call, line makes no sense" and maybe fish can have worse and be overplaying or maybe playing hh weird and... H calls and HJ has 87o and CO has KK.

Why post results? Also, raise pre is weird. Particularly at that size. More importantly, pot flop

We should size down multi-way, even holding the nuts. Also, Hero has playable hand on button versus limpers' weak ranges. Isoing here it completely reasonable.

not sure if everyone realizes, but i'm like 99% sure this is a 1/2 hand not a 1/3 hand. foxwoods still spreads 1/2 for some odd reason and i don't believe they spread 1/3. i'm pretty much always raising OTB with T9s vs limping weak players. sizing is pretty bad though. like, yes, i get its 6x over 2 limpers isn't "bad" but the lower the stakes in live poker, the more the dollar amount actually matters. $10 more isn't even lunch in conneticut/north east in 2024. no ones folding to that and T9s seems like it would play well multiway but it really doesn't and we're going to run into reverse implied odds very often when there are many players postflop. i'd really be looking to go like $20 because i want 1 caller or all folds. agree we should be betting this flop much bigger than ~40% psb. 1/2 players aren't folding if they hit this board at all. balance at 1/2 is not worth the value you miss in spots like this because you're 80+% and he isn't going anywhere ever.

Effective stacks about 100bb. Person A in the CO raises. Person B in the BB nervously 3-bets. Person C (who was UTG and folded) says, "I fold kings." Person A looks at person B aggressively and says, "ALL IN". Person B looks like he's going to faint but calls. A flips over QQ. B flips over AA. There is a Q on the flop. B curses. C says, "It's not over YET!". I was person B. It was the second time I was way behind and someone told me "It's not over yet." I friggin hate that. Am I alone? (He probably should have saved his comment about folding kings until after the hand as well, but that's another story.)

by DalTXColtsFan m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58723587#post58723587)

Effective stacks about 100bb. Person A in the CO raises. Person B in the BB nervously 3-bets. Person C (who was UTG and folded) says, "I fold kings." Person A looks at person B aggressively and says, "ALL IN". Person B looks like he's going to faint but calls. A flips over QQ. B flips over AA. There is a Q on the flop. B curses. C says, "It's not over YET!".I was perso... See full post

His preflop comments with action still pending deserve a KITN / stern talking to by floor. His flop comments should be answered with a fistbump and a gleeful "YES, I'm still live, LET'S DO THIS!" (and you're doing things completely wrong doing anything else). GcluelessgoodlosernoobG

by AlanBostick m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58723417#post58723417)

We should size down multi-way, even holding the nuts. Also, Hero has playable hand on button versus limpers' weak ranges. Isoing here it completely reasonable.

Against a villain that limp calls every hand, isn’t ever folding a flopped gut shot, up n down or pair/2 pair. We should be max exploit betting as much as we can. We want stacks here with the nuts

Not really low stress but just a single decision point-- V $250ish. I cover table. V is VPIP 90%+/PFR 70%. He raises to $17 (1-2 blinds) most of the time regardless of position or players already limping in front. I've already 3-bet him multiple times. One time he was down to about $80 so I shoved with JJ and he called with 25s and made 2 pair. Other times he just folded or called then c/f flop. OTTH: V MP says lets try something different and raises to $20 over several limps. I 3-bet $60 HJ. A limper I was concerned about who almost matched my stack folds to my 3-bet. V says may as well go home and shoves $190 more. Hero has QQ. What's your decision here? I range him on AK/AQ/JJ+ and possible because it's him some spazz factor. I don't have a fully accurate EV calculator in my head but it seems to be around 50%, maybe %45. With dead money it should be +EV but who knows if we are ranging him correctly and the meta aspect of giving this guy a stack that would be equal to ours if we lose is not fun. I try table talk asking if he has Aces or if he might want to run it twice. He just angrily says all-in. Not sure what that means. Any comments on that as my table talk game is weaksauce. Spoiler Show

I figured it was close to even EV no matter what and I've never done this before but randomized my decision

??? Isn’t this a snap vs described V If the limper had shoved, it would be more of a decision. Sorry you lost vs KK or AA Just read spoiler: lol at randomizing this spot, wtf

by donkatruck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58735570#post58735570)

V says may as well go home and shoves $190 more. Hero has QQ. What's your decision here?

When he says that I'd assume he's got a good hand. Like I've seen people talk about how they have to go home soon and then start going insane and shoving wide ... but whenever I've seen someone say it during the hand they are never going insane. Would slightly lean fold with QQ but I don't hate calling it because he might think all 16 combos of AK are the nuts, and might even assume JJ/TT is the nuts vs. your 3bet range.

I assume his AI range is larger than JJ+... OTOH, pushing a sizeable stack and saying, "I guess it's time to go home," is probably one of them most reliable tells of strength.

by Joe-exotic69 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58735623#post58735623)

??? Isn’t this a snap vs described V If the limper had shoved, it would be more of a decision. Sorry you lost vs KK or AA Just read spoiler: lol at randomizing this spot, wtf

I think it's a huge mistake to broaden a V's tendencies 100% when they do something completely different than normal for them. This guy is super aggro pre as an opener but have not seen him 3-bet or especially 4-bet yet even though I have given him 4 or 5 chances to do so. But he is more likely to spazz than a typical, so in my head I ranged him with 1 spazz hand. Something like JJ+/AK mostly with a few 89s or AQ/AJ/88-TT type hands. I honestly felt like my decision was relatively indifferent re: EV. I thought it was slightly interesting given the other factors of speech play.

by donkatruck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58735689#post58735689)

I think it's a huge mistake to broaden a V's tendencies 100% when they do something completely different than normal for them. This guy is super aggro pre as an opener but have not seen him 3-bet or especially 4-bet yet even though I have given him 4 or 5 chances to do so. But he is more likely to spazz than a typical, so in my head I ranged him with 1 spazz hand. Something ... See full post

I apologize if i sounded rude in my original post. The dude is running 90/70, i understand his 4bet and speech play can be seen as more nutted but the nuts to this guy could be TT or AQ. This guy deserves a little action too, even if you lose it could pay dividends in the future. Honestly QQ is just way too high up your range to consider folding. Even with the range that you gave him , seems like AQ, 99+ is a call.

Not that it really matters but my randomizer landed on call V said run it once and I faded his AKo.

by donkatruck m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58735570#post58735570)

Not really low stress but just a single decision point--V $250ish. I cover table. V is VPIP 90%+/PFR 70%. He raises to $17 (1-2 blinds) most of the time regardless of position or players already limping in front. I've already 3-bet him multiple times. One time he was down to about $80 so I shoved with JJ and he called with 25s and made 2 pair. Other times he just folded ... See full post

Beware the speech followed by a jam. Be even more leery if the opponent seems angry in his speech or manner. Generally, anything said which could be interpreted as weakening the speaker's range should be regarded as a sign of real strength. Players with weak hands generally don't want to antagonize opponents into making light calls by being belligerent. That's not to say he always and only has AA/KK. He could make the same speech and take the same attitude with AK or JJ, but bad players will often want to see a flop with those hands before committing themselves to a jam. Whether or not we call off with QQ depends - are we close to the end of our session, has he quieted down for a while before this, etc. Generally, though, if this guy's been throwing a party all night, and we've been relentlessly 3B'ing him, and then he does this...I think we might want to find a fold. Had a similar situation in my last session - young dude nursing a $200 stack at 1/3, mostly folding everything for the past 2 hours, decides to jam over my $25 open and a $25 call, saying, "send me home," but then he goes into a cone of silence. I thought about it for a second or two, then saw that he was just staring down at the table, sitting as still as possible, not making a peep. I figured he wouldn't be scared to look up if he had AA/KK, so I re-jammed with JJ. He had AK. My hand held up, and I scooped. I guess he thought he wanted a call when he made that speech, then realized he wanted a fold when I didn't turbo-muck.

agree with docvail but it's not foolproof, i've definitely folded QQ in that exact same spot only for the guy to flip over T4o and rack up his chips and leave super annoyed that he didn't either bust or double up his final hand given that he already called with 25 we can not rule that out

but... i think the fact he didn't just go for stacks right off the bat and instead only put in $20 severely discounts the notion that he's either trying to double up or leave with nothing - and the double speech play of the "let's try something different" just screams aces

1-3 getting late great table, only competent player is asian woman to my left and she's pretty abc so easy to hand read hero on the btn, 900 deep staddles to $6 sb folds bb folds utg is a maniac who will call any raise preflop if he has something remotely connected, any suited cards, any two gappers etc he's called all ins preflop with 9Ts, a bunch of other hands where he didn't show and against me with J8 which obviously cracked my queens, he's bought in about 3-4 times utg bumps it to 20 utg +1 is an old white guy, former military, looks exactly like bruce dern from nebraska

he bought in for 200 and lost it all within an orbit calling big raises pre and then calling an all in with ace high and no draws on the turn he leaves to find an atm, comes back with 100 and quickly doubles up a few times, mostly at the expense of the maniac where his top pair is good - guy has no fold button but the few times he's shown agression he's had something like top pair he just won a 3 way all in with his AA beating KK and utg's random two cards which were mucked so he's got me covered just slightly old man raises it to $50 and folds around to me i'm thinking about what's the highest amount i can bump it up with them calling and pump it to 180 - maniac snap calls (he has maybe 150 behind), old man goes into the tank for a while and finally calls flop is J64r maniac insta shoves, old man thinks for a few seconds (he does this no matter what, he's just super slow) and then reshoves over the top - he's barely got me covered i snap called assuming I was up against air or a gut shot of the maniac and perhaps Jx or KK/QQ/TT from old man thoughts?

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58786168#post58786168)

i snap called assuming I was up against air or a gut shot of the maniac and perhaps Jx or KK/QQ/TT from old man thoughts?

You have AA? I think for a couple of seconds, but can't see how we can do anything but call. You have KK? Life sucks and both options feel bad.

Not folding. Also think 3bet size is good

i mean, i think at this point it's obvious

Spoiler Show

maniac never shows and mucks, claims he had a draw old man shows 55 for a flopped set given spr etc i don't see how i can do anything but call - but i'm sure he's blasting off here with a whole lot more than a flopped set

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58786579#post58786579)

i mean, i think at this point it's obvious

Spoiler Show

maniac never shows and mucks, claims he had a draw old man shows 55 for a flopped set given spr etc i don't see how i can do anything but call - but i'm sure he's blasting off here with a whole lot more than a flopped set

55 not a set but typo notwithstanding, you’d need a very solid read that old man wouldn’t proceed with one of the other hands like QQ before folding

by feel wrath m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58786748#post58786748)

55 not a set but typo notwithstanding, you’d need a very solid read that old man wouldn’t proceed with one of the other hands like QQ before folding

my bad, flop was j65r not j64r and yes, i had a very solid read he was shoving Jx+ there - that's exactly how he'd built up his stack from $100 shoving with top pair and getting called light

1/1 game at the pub, 8 handed. Table is one hour old. UTG+1 ($350) raises to $6, HJ ($250) calls, I (BB $170) raise to $26 with A♣ 7♣, UTG+1 calls. Flop ($59) K♣ Q♣ 4♦ I bet $25, UTG+1 calls Turn ($109) 9♣ How much should I bet river? (I have $120 behind) What should my PFR size/flop bet size have been? I noticed villain raising preflop to $6 a handful of times in the last two orbits, so probably raising somewhat wide. (I tried to squeeze and take it down preflop, it was my first 3-bet) Postflop he seems pretty straightforward, no particular hands to note, he just check folded on the turn mostly, didn't seem interested. I raised a couple of times in the last two orbits where it went multi-way; I check folded on the flop, in another pot I c-bet flop, check folded the turn. We both should have pretty straightforward images.

I'd want to know that both of my opponents had fold buttons before I attempted a 3-handed squeeze with A7s. As played, unless you think he's going to stab at the pot if you show weakness, I'd either bet $35 and jam the river, or just jam here.

2/5/10 on a friday at a casino. 7 handed and we've had a straddle on for a little bit, but it's not mandatory 2 limpers, hero in SB with 42hh calls (1300ish eff). BB/STR are not actively raising much so i think i can get away with limping with SC. both call. 5 ways to the flop Flop ($50): 2d3h6h hero checks checks to BTN who bets $50. (competant early 30s reg. seen him be super laggy in games before but this game wasn't playing that way and he was playing a little more buttoned up today) hero raises to $175 folds to BTN who thinks for 30ish seconds and calls Turn ($400): 2d3h6h [Qh] hero? i checked in game but i think it's a mistake. this has to be a bet right?

by johnny_on_the_spot m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58797457#post58797457)

2/5/10 on a friday at a casino. 7 handed and we've had a straddle on for a little bit, but it's not mandatory2 limpers, hero in SB with 42hh calls (1300ish eff). BB/STR are not actively raising much so i think i can get away with limping with SC. both call. 5 ways to the flopFlop ($50): 2d3h6hhero checkschecks to BTN who bets $50. (competant early 30s reg. seen him be super lag... See full post

Bet/fold 300?

by Vancouver m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58797128#post58797128)

1/1 game at the pub, 8 handed. Table is one hour old.UTG+1 ($350) raises to $6, HJ ($250) calls, I (BB $170) raise to $26 with A♣ 7♣, UTG+1 calls.Flop ($59) K♣ Q♣ 4♦I bet $25, UTG+1 callsTurn ($109) 9♣How much should I bet river? (I have $120 behind)What should my PFR size/flop bet size have been?I noticed villain raising preflop to $6 a handful of times in the last two orbits, so pr... See full post

With so little left behind, I'd probably check turn, and then jam the river. Alternatively, we can bet small, like $40-$50, and then jam the river. Hard to know what to do with so little info to go on. He opened UTG1 pre, and then flat-called a 3B with the HJ still in the hand. Then he flatted your less than 1/2 pot c-bet. It seems unlikely he's getting to the turn with 2P+, so he's probably got AK, AA, maybe some AQ or JJ that got sticky / stubborn on the flop and decided to float to see if you'd bet turn, and not much else for value. Ideally, he made a set with 99, or turned a straight with JT, or flopped a pair and turned a BD draw with a hand like QJ or QT, and you can get him to bet turn for value and protection if you check to him, or possibly raise if you bet small. Maybe he'll call off a river jam with AA/AK/AQ if he checks back turn.

by johnny_on_the_spot m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58797457#post58797457)

2/5/10 on a friday at a casino. 7 handed and we've had a straddle on for a little bit, but it's not mandatory2 limpers, hero in SB with 42hh calls (1300ish eff). BB/STR are not actively raising much so i think i can get away with limping with SC. both call. 5 ways to the flopFlop ($50): 2d3h6hhero checkschecks to BTN who bets $50. (competant early 30s reg. seen him be super lag... See full post

Stop limping in from the SB, especially in 3-blind set-ups. Definitely don't do it with trash hands like 42s. I wouldn't x/r the flop when the BTN bets pot. I'd just call. If he's value betting worse or bluffing, we want him to keep doing what he's doing, not narrow his range to better hands or better draws. I don't know what you should do on the turn, because I wouldn't get to the turn the way you did, with your hand. I think I might slow down and check here. He's not going to call turn and river bets with much worse for value, unless the poor bastard has a straight. I'd probably just check and hope he thinks we flopped 2P or a set that's scared he turned a flush, and that he'll turn whatever he has into a bluff, if it's not a better flush. Otherwise, I'd be hoping he checks back with his better flushes. I'm definitely not looking to pile the money in here, as played. The best case scenario is we're up against a straight, set, or 2P that is happy to check back turn and might call a small river bet. Worst case is we're drawing dead and just torching any money we put into the pot.

Turn is a bet,I mean wtf were you hoping for with this hand. You can't let an action killing card roll off that might also put you behind. Fold pre obviously ffs Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk

Adjusting versus loose aggressive players is straightforward (play tighter) but how should we adjust to player types described below. The ones who don't want to scare away their opponents preflop or want to hit set over set on the flop with their big pocket pairs or don't want to raise big preflop with them for fear of an overcard appearing on the flop. In my local $1/$1 game, players generally play quite wide and passive. There are two players who have a habit of flatting premium hands to a single raise (AK, AA, KK, QQ) preflop. They are also capable of calling/checking their set on the flop with the intention of a huge raise. They seem to want to get it in AI when they know their opponents are strong too. Eight handed (200 BB eff stacks) spot I saw yesterday versus them which sort of sums up how they play preflop. UTG+1 raises $10, HJ calls, CO calls, V1/BTN flats with JJ, V2/SB flats with QQ, UTG limp calls. Flop: T96r V2 (QQ) leads 35, UTG+1 (preflop raiser calls, V1 folds his JJ. Turn: J Check-check River:3 UTG+1 bets 46, V2 reluctantly sigh calls and loses to KK Do I just bet bet fold against these player types? How best should I play versus them?

by Vancouver m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58801011#post58801011)

Adjusting versus loose aggressive players is straightforward (play tighter) but how should we adjust to player types described below. The ones who don't want to scare away their opponents preflop or want to hit set over set on the flop with their big pocket pairs or don't want to raise big preflop with them for fear of an overcard appearing on the flop.In my local $1/$1 game, p... See full post

I feel like I just watched a video about adjusting to players like this, but I'll be damned if I can remember who was in the video or what they said. So...I dunno. They sound like standard rocks (tight-passive). Don't try to bluff them off of strong hands. Just out-hand them. They don't play many pots, so it shouldn't be too hard to avoid getting it in bad with them. When they're tight-passive, play loose-aggressive, at least pre, but be sure not to overplay marginal or possibly 2nd best hands post. And don't go crazy semi-bluffing with your draws. They'll let you know their hand strength with their bet sizes. Like, in that T96 flop example, I'm going to have JT, J9, T9, 87, and (flame suit on) 96 in my range often enough that I'm not going broke with an over-pair to the board. Last week, I got stacked by a similar player type. I raised pre with 55. She and a couple others called. Flop comes AT8 two clubs (I have the 5c). I check, she bets 1/3 pot, one caller, I call. Turn is the 5h. I check, she bets pretty big, and I jam on her. Of course she has 88. I wouldn't have been shocked to see TT. I should have known she wouldn't call a jam with AT / A8, or just a draw. Maybe a year ago at 1/3 - maniac opens to $15 from MP. Rock calls next to act. OMC folds. Another rock 3B's to $75 on the BTN. I'm in the SB with AQs. I flat call, figuring the maniac and other rock would come along, and they do. Flop comes KQQ two spades. I check. Maniac donk bets like $100 into $300. Fold. BTN raises to $300. I thought about it for a few seconds, then folded, pretty sure BTN had KK. He's never raising with AA, and probably not AQ, because he's never 3B'ing that pre, nor is he 3B'ing KQ. Nothing else in his range but KK. Sure enough, I ran into him about a month later, and he confirmed he did indeed have KK, and was shocked I folded AQ. He shouldn't have been, when he was only playing one hand an hour. Just pay attention and be sure to label the opponent as a rock when you see them playing this way. They just never get a lot of money in without the nuts.

3-4 am 1-3 game $800 effective straddle btn to 6 - gets about 5 callers - i see no benefit in bumping it up as most will call anyway so i opt to check and see a flop with A9o so about $30 in the pot flop comes 995dd old man, who has been playing and drinking heavily since 10 am who literally needs to be woken up whenever there's a new hand and it's his turn to act i don't recall the specifics, but it was something like he led out with $15 after a few people checked and I bumped it up to $40 or so with the thoughts that i dominate any other 9x, people with overs will call, perhaps even a naked 5 calls and to make chasing the flush unprofitable folds around and old man calls - this is the first turn he's seen in about 3 hours, he's usually one to fold quickly so he can go back to sleep - and no, i'm not exaggerating turn comes 8c to put a second flush draw out there and complete the 67 gut shot old man leads into me with $175, he has slightly more chips than I do so about $600 behind my spidey sense is going bonkers, he has literally folded everything and been on nap mode last few hours, suddenly he's not only playing a pot but taking an uber aggressive line so all i'm thinking is he of course has 55 i go deep into the tank i eventually rationalize that although unlikely to be the case, he could just have a weak 9x and since he's a bad player, he could also think that pocket jacks are the nuts here or perhaps he's betting into a flush draw i eventually decide that if he's on a draw, he check folds river if it misses and if he isn't on a draw, then he's jamming river, in which case i'm going to once again try to talk myself into folding and so i opt to let god sort it out, remove my fear of monsters under the bed and opt to jam afterwards, nobody believed me that i genuinely thought about folding and almost did it - am i nuts to consider that? not posting results because i don't want that to twang the responses also, i'm really dumb, but am I essentially correct that there's more 55 out there than 9x? i know there's only 3 combos of 55 but far more 9x but given that it's the case 9 wouldn't it be less common? if anyone knows the math for how to figure out stuff like that, i'd deeply appreciate it - it's stuff i used to automatically calculate in my head 20 years ago but now as an old man with brain farts it's all greek at this point

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58801189#post58801189)

3-4 am 1-3 game $800 effectivestraddle btn to 6 - gets about 5 callers - i see no benefit in bumping it up as most will call anyway so i opt to check and see a flop with A9o so about $30 in the potflop comes 995ddold man, who has been playing and drinking heavily since 10 am who literally needs to be woken up whenever there's a new hand and it's his turn to act i don't recall t... See full post

No, you're not nuts for thinking it through. If you fold and he shows a worse hand you'll want to lay down in traffic. Likewise, if you call and he shows 98, 95, or 55, you'll want to power-chug drain cleaner. As played, I think a fold or flat call is better than a jam. But I'm guessing he folded, or snapped with something you beat. I've had similar experiences with players who are living caricatures, and it can be hard to figure them out. I've seen my share of old men who look like OMC's but actually play pretty maniacal. Against a "wild card" player type, I try to find some non-standard lines, to force them to react. Like, here, I might have made it $90 when he bets $15. Raising to $40 is inviting trouble, I think. Alternatively, I might min-click it. Let his drunk, tired a$$ try to figure out what what a min-click or a 6x raise is repping. Yes, there are 3 combos of 55. How many combos of 9x he may have depends on how wide he's playing. If he's limp-calling ATC, he could have every combo of 9x possible, which is a lot more than 3.

I gotta admit, I typed up a long normal response and then after I examined all the thoughts / questions I reconsidered. Part of me almost thinks this a troll of some sort? I mean, RR, you've been around the typical LLSNL game a while now, so I just can't believe these are your actual thoughts as to what is happening?

• you think naked overs or 5x in the field is calling the flop raise on this board with the action open? Exactly 0.0% chance of this happening, IME
• IME, 55 slowplay checks the flop almost always; I would be much more concerned about 98
• you think a guy who never reaches the turn is donking a flush draw or JJ (or even a weak 9x for that matter) after we raised a paired flop with eleventeen players in the pot to start risking ginourmous $800 stacks?; I mean, I won't go down to 0.0% chance of this happening, but it is less than 5% (admittedly number pulled out of my bum)
• not that it is relevant, but I also don't get the combos question; there is obviously only 3 combos of 55, and meanwhile there are a crapload of 9h(orwhatever)x combos (although as the streets go on we have to start weighing how many of said combos would actually keep playing this way) I actually have zero issues with considering a fold cuz this really is 98 to this action / this guy, like, mostly, IME. Maybe 87dd. I'd sooner put him on misread 96 than pretty much anything else. Although admittedly most don't overbomb the turn with the ~nuts, but obviously a great play if we have what we're repping we have. I'm probably not good enough to fold now (I don't think?) so I think (?) I manage a call and evaluate the river. But I dunno, maybe my game just vastly differs (but I doubt it). No one who never sees the turn vastly overplays 9x / etc. for hugenormous $800 stacks pretty much ever., and especially against our flop raise (unless we have one heckuva maniacal image). They go into calldown mode and hope they don't have to put much more money in when they are coolered. I mean, yes, I've personally seen the rare example, but I can recite the HHs by heart since they are so unicorn. If anything else is happening here, I think we can safely chalk it up to the rare spazz factor (which is a very small number although admittedly perhaps larger than I think it is). GcluelesstypicalLLSNLthoughtprocessnoobG

Yeah, I don't think drunk Sleepy McGee is donking flop and calling a raise with 67. Pretty unlikely. Also don't think he's doing this with 87dd. I wouldn't rule out him fast-playing bottom boat, or worse 9x on the flop. The turn 8 is pretty disappointing. My thinking is that people who are barely playing the game by not paying attention tend to play hands that don't require much thought pre or post. So 98 is definitely in this guy's range, and for the same reasons I wouldn't rule out him fast-playing 55, I wouldn't rule out him fast-playing 98. Every so often, maybe this guy plays a flush draw this way, but that turn donk makes it much less likely. I think it's okay to call the turn simply because he has more T9 combos than 98 combos. If he's thinking clearly enough to bet-call flop and donk the turn with trips, he may have enough brain cells left to slow down and check the river with worse value, which will be amaze-balls if we can spike an A, or just check back if not. I dunno. If he has 98, 95, or 55, it's just a cooler. Maybe we can fold if he jams river, but probably not.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58786168#post58786168)

utg +1 is an old white guy, former military, looks exactly like bruce dern from nebraska ... See full post

X-post. I really liked a long-gone IMDB post about the movie Nebraska. It said that filming in black and white is a lost art. It doesn't work if you set the scene for color and then film in b&w. Case in point, in Nebraska you cannot see a thing in the background whereas in any old Twilight Zone episode you can count the leaves on the trees on my CRTV.

^ was supposed to be in chat thread but could not delete.

so my thoughts were - my reraise was really strong - i'm basically saying I have 9x so him not slowing down one iota was where the alarm bells started going off his donk really showed a lot of strength to me, where he's worried i'll check back turn and then he misses his chance to play for stacks after i jam, he snap calls so i obviously think i'm beat because 9x is the very worst hand I could have here he doesn't show his hand so i'm asking if he has a boat and he eventually shows Q9 after it blanks out on river a few people accused me of hollywooding to try to look weak (i sat and thought about whether to fold/call/shove for about a minute) and when i exclaimed that it was legit and i was actually considering a fold nobody believed me

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58803298#post58803298)

so my thoughts were - my reraise was really strong - i'm basically saying I have 9x so him not slowing down one iota was where the alarm bells started going offhis donk really showed a lot of strength to me, where he's worried i'll check back turn and then he misses his chance to play for stacksafter i jam, he snap calls so i obviously think i'm beat because 9x is the very wors... See full post

I wouldn't worry about dumb people at the table. These are the same types of people who would snap call 92 here. They are typically morons who can't comprehend what they don't know.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58803298#post58803298)

so my thoughts were - my reraise was really strong - i'm basically saying I have 9x so him not slowing down one iota was where the alarm bells started going offhis donk really showed a lot of strength to me, where he's worried i'll check back turn and then he misses his chance to play for stacksafter i jam, he snap calls so i obviously think i'm beat because 9x is the very wors... See full post

I don't think your flop raise looks that strong when you only make it $40. I don't think his turn donk would look that strong after you raise flop, but your flop raise sizing does muddy the waters a bit, making it possible for you to have some semi-bluffs on the flop that might check back turn. His flatting your flop raise and then donking the turn is a weird line. Most of his hands that are strong enough to call the flop - but not re-raise - should be more worried about you jamming over his donk rather than worried about you checking back. If he has 98 he's got your higher 9x drawing dead to three outs, and your lower 9x drawing dead. I'd expect him to just check all his boats on the turn, so he can check raise. If you check back, he can just lead the river. So his turn donk looks like a value hand that wants some protection, not a monster. I've been in trips over trips situations a few times. Never seen my opponent slow down, even with crap kickers. They just always think they have the nuts. Especially on straightening or flushing boards, they tend to put opponents on draws. One time I folded top trips with top kicker facing aggression from an OMC type, in a three way pot with a maniac. I was sure the OMC had a boat when he raised over my call of the maniac's turn barrel on a wet board. Sure enough, he was just overvaluing worse trips, and I'd have scooped if I'd stayed in it.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58803298#post58803298)

so my thoughts were - my reraise was really strong - i'm basically saying I have 9x so him not slowing down one iota was where the alarm bells started going offhis donk really showed a lot of strength to me, where he's worried i'll check back turn and then he misses his chance to play for stacksafter i jam, he snap calls so i obviously think i'm beat because 9x is the very wors... See full post

As I say, some of your thoughts just "do not compute" to me (which is why I found it such a strange post)... such as worrying what people who are capable of lol calling the flop raise with naked overs think of your play. I'm guessing you're just checking your sanity / thought process against your typical LLSNL player? Honestly, I think you have every reason to be shitting your pants (and I actually dislike your shove), although I guess I'm not surprised the results would gobsmack me, but congrats on running into the worst player you'll play with this year @ LLSNL. But not everyone will agree with that. But may also really depend on what the BI limit is for this game and what everyone typically plays at. I mean, if there's like a $1.5K BI max and everyone is always sitting at $1K+ and those fly around, ok, whatever. But in smaller BI games where people BI for like $200 and then run their stack up to a huge 4x that to $800, the typical player goes on lockdown and full on GodMUBSy mode. Ggoodluck!G

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58801189#post58801189)

old man leads into me with $175, he has slightly more chips than I do so about $600 behind ... so all i'm thinking is he of course has 55 i go deep into the tank ... also, i'm really dumb, but am I essentially correct that there's more 55 out there than 9x?

Obviously think as long as you want, and it's often really difficult to understand what people are thinking/doing ... even more so if they are drunk/sleepy and might be doing weird things (Eg. think they have 99 pre. but end up on the flop with 96o, or even remembering and old hand and then recheck on the flop and see 92o). Saying that ... I think it's much less likely people have 55 here. Some better players might flop bet/call and donk lead almost all turns to look weaker (but probably not for this size), but IMO the bad low stakes population heavily leans heavily toward having 9x here ... I assume because they don't want to just gamble for everything vs. a combo/NFD draw on the flop and they don't want the turn to check through for those same draws. So they donk 9x to charge all your draws. 98 is a real worry (one of the worse 9x hands, then makes the nuts so lead away), but even then they probably don't lead so big because they want flush draws to call and not fold. Given that I probably call turn, but shoving might be better ... esp. vs. the drunk/sleepy guy who probably isn't going to realize that 92o is crushed when you shove.

How do folks handle a fairly snug taggy guy who may now be tilting when they alter their 3! size to something insanely large? Specific example: HH with specific V - I shoved turn with bottom 2 + FD, villain tanks forever after and folds. Was a fairly large pot as me and V were effective 175-180BBs. Player on his right rabbit hunts and shows him a Jclub river and villain laments not calling as he had lone Qhi flush draw. Very next hand - were 6 handed, 1/3 MP: ~75BB V1: 100BB 1 limp MP raies to 15 V1 gives a lil speech and carefully places 3! to 50 out Hero in CO has {X,Y} What's our 4! range here? I dont think polarizing a 4! range here is best exploitively - I think something linear works best if we are to go that route. Open to reasons why thats wrong though as well. Specifically to our read though - villain is somewhat TAGy but not aggressive enough post flop - closer to fit or fold than a passive calling station. Was visibily irked by getting shown the rabbit river card previous hand. Had been pretty straight fwd prior. but small sample size and still jsut a guess/read on my part so while I thought this to be the case, greater than 55% say, i wasnt approaching a territory i'd call confident in that read - 85%+ so a range of doubt here. MP is a bit of a gambler - will raise/call and limp/call a lot. likes to see the board, highly curious about it being a 7 card game often too. Curious about how much folks adjust their range here and how FWIW i had JJ and wasnt in love with 4betting but also wasnt thrilled to simply flat as MP. Lately I've just releeased a lot of hands to wildly oversized bets vs random 1/3 and 2/5 opponents in spots like these. More often from OOP due to difficulty of equity realization in those spots. Unecessarily bloated pots: Do we always assume 100% tilting? Do we like to linearize our 4! range here since we probably wont get folds as often now but assumption is tilted villain is 3-betting with way too much here and possible even a higher % of pure trash but likely to take it to the streets and not fold pre + liklihood of MP coming along. JJ in position isnt awful as a flat but some % tho low MP shoves.

I wouldn't call his raise "insanely large," especially if he's still rattled and quickly trying to calculate the raise size. Unless you know him to get spewy pre-flop when he is tilted, I probably would not adjust my range at all, since snug TAGs don't normally tilt by widening their 3! range.

Seems like an awful lot of words to ask 'how to respond to a 3bet when we have no reason to deviate from our normal strategy?'. The sizing is normal, not 'insanely large' or 'wildly oversized'. The villain should have a tight range, which is population normal, and might be wider than normal and might not be.

sorry i shouldve said large for the table. usually these guys if htey 3! was max 3x so 15-45 and even then their sizing would sometimes just be 35-40 avg. yeah not insanely sized but was out of the norm.

i used a specific hand example but i am curious about folks thoughts on adjusting to larger/abnormally larger relative to opponents avg raise size - what is our criteria for adjustment and what could be a sort of catalyst piece of info besides an obvious one like V shows down something like 88. This also does border on avg player tendency for middling players - big big raises tend to be big hands but i do see a trend where they mix in middling PPs a lot here too unintentionally arriving at a big raise size range that isnt just preflop nuts. if it was more likely to go HU vs 3bettor and we were deeper - i wanna say somewhere between 150-200BBs flatting easily becomes much more viable imo. And perhaps a follow up question might be: as stack depth increases, obviously our range should increase in tandem - what does that scaling look like both for a linear range and a polarized one

1/3 $900 effective. 9 handed $6 straddle UTG+1 open $15, i have 44 UTG+2, i call (I think this is bad). anyways. UTG+3 makes it $80. UTG+1 calls. call or muck.

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812533#post58812533)

1/3 $900 effective. 9 handed $6 straddle UTG+1 open $15, i have 44 UTG+2, i call (I think this is bad). anyways. UTG+3 makes it $80. UTG+1 calls. call or muck.

I think being the first caller to setmine is always fairly poor, with perhaps the exception being on the Button (made poorer the earlier we are and more chance of someone 3betting behind us). Our IO at this point are about 15:1. That's not too great all things considered (OOP, unlikely to make it to showdown UI, we don't stack like KK on A4x, even in best case scenario of getting it all in on the flop with a set versus an overpair we still lose ~10% of the time, etc.). GcluelessNLnoobG

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812533#post58812533)

1/3 $900 effective. 9 handed $6 straddle UTG+1 open $15, i have 44 UTG+2, i call (I think this is bad). anyways. UTG+3 makes it $80. UTG+1 calls. call or muck.

I fold twice, after lightly punching myself in the balls for the first call.

first call isn't terrible if you think villains will both: a) stack off with overpair/top pair type holdings if you flop it b) nobody is going to reraise behind you since both of those in combination are unlikely (if they are, congrats, you found a dream table) it's a pretty straightforward fold even easier fold to the $80, at no point should that ever be under consideration i'm far likelier to make a call there for the original $15 if i'm towards the close of the action but you're so early that even if it doesn't get popped up, you'll likely be oop for most of it and thus unable to realize your equity where villain can check back a lot of turns and rivers when you hit it

$500 effective $1/3 one bad limper, i iso JTo OTB $20, sb calls. SB is a solid tag, does 3bet light so range cant be that strong here. limper folds. flop T77 rainbow. sb check I go $20 SB crs to $60.

$1.1k effective $1/3. $6 straddle. i open KQs MP $20. solid tag sb 3b to $100. sb is probably the best player at the table. straddle folds.

$1/3 1100 effective two people limp $3, i limp 66 CO, btn limps, blinds check flop 345 two spades, i have no spade. checked to me i go $10. bb CR's to $50. BB's range is tough to play here, hes not that passive but not crazy either. folded to me, what do you do?

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812678#post58812678)

$500 effective $1/3 one bad limper, i iso JTo OTB $20, sb calls. SB is a solid tag, does 3bet light so range cant be that strong here. limper folds. flop T77 rainbow. sb check I go $20 SB crs to $60.

imo no real value in isoing a hand like JTo where the alternative is seeing a flop in position 4 handed JTo plays better multi way than heads up anyway especially don't want to do that vs a capable player in the sb that is known for 3! light

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812682#post58812682)

$1.1k effective $1/3. $6 straddle. i open KQs MP $20. solid tag sb 3b to $100. sb is probably the best player at the table. straddle folds.

curious what you're posting this for, is this ever a call for you?

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812692#post58812692)

$1/3 1100 effective two people limp $3, i limp 66 CO, btn limps, blinds check flop 345 two spades, i have no spade. checked to me i go $10. bb CR's to $50. BB's range is tough to play here, hes not that passive but not crazy either. folded to me, what do you do?

i'm never folding here, you block 67 well and it's unlikely he pops it up with the wheel so you're mostly facing a combo draw, overpair, or 2p or a set, all of which you have a lot of equity against

() quite often you don't improve here and need to fold river but a lot of people will go to the wall on boards like this with marginal holdings even when a 7 or deuce is spiked - it's a good spot to double up imo and you could even be way ahead of his A5o which he thinks is the nuts

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812704#post58812704)

curious what you're posting this for, is this ever a call for you?

i actually posted it wrong, he RR to $80. probably makes little difference though. i folded, but i could be convinced im wrong in position vs a linear non-nit range.

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812533#post58812533)

1/3 $900 effective. 9 handed $6 straddle UTG+1 open $15, i have 44 UTG+2, i call (I think this is bad). anyways. UTG+3 makes it $80. UTG+1 calls. call or muck.

I played a similar hand on Friday at 2-5 where I only made it 70 from the BB with KK, and 44 called the 3bet and hit a set ... so if you can do that it'll probably work out well. Apart from that, I fold everything but the 66 hand.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812714#post58812714)

i'm never folding here, you block 67 well and it's unlikely he pops it up with the wheel so you're mostly facing a combo draw, overpair, or 2p or a set, all of which you have a lot of equity against quite often you don't improve here and need to fold river but a lot of people will go to the wall on boards like this with marginal holdings even when a 7 or deuce is spiked - it's... See full post

interesting. i was thinking i wouldnt get paid if i hit a straight. in your experience is that not true? i put him on either A2, two pair or a set. obv two pair and A2 more likely than sets.

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812933#post58812933)

interesting. i was thinking i wouldnt get paid if i hit a straight. in your experience is that not true? i put him on either A2, two pair or a set. obv two pair and A2 more likely than sets.

ime stacks usually end up getting in on these boards and nobody ever has the nuts but sample of USA#1 is limited to a few hundred hours

5:35am, you joined this table maybe 3-4 orbits ago. Young'ish 27-34 yr old who thinks everything is an ego contest or dick swing competition on your immediate right seems to have some kinda problem with your existence for some weird reason. HH1 Button raises to 15, they flat in the SB, you have AA on BB and make it 75. BU folds, SB calls. Flop Jxx rainbow they check, you bet 75 again. they tank for a while and fold. Then get salty and mutter "i knew i shouldve ****ing 3bet or 4bet that 3bet" HH2 straddle UTG, they raise 15, hero in CO 3bets 45 with AJo, folds back to them they take about 15 seconds and 4bet to 135, hero folds they for some weird reason show you Kd8d as if its some kinda flex. Hero's image should be pretty TAGy. lost a big pot when other villain caught double gut beating your flopped straight when it was only 4 handed for a bit. other than that raise or fold preflop, hasnt show down much at all. hasnt won or lost any big hands besides the ass end of the straight and the HH2 above if that is to be separate form any sizeable pots. And Fairly aggressive post flop. Eff stacks 400, 1/3 game, 6 handed still UTG straddle, Villain calls Hero raises to 30 with QhQs, folds to straddle calls, villain calls rake/promo $5+2 ($83) 9d 6c 3d checks to hero, bets 55, folds to villain who calls ($193) 9d 6c 3d 8s Villain somewhat quickly open jams Hero?

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812678#post58812678)

$500 effective $1/3 one bad limper, i iso JTo OTB $20, sb calls. SB is a solid tag, does 3bet light so range cant be that strong here. limper folds. flop T77 rainbow. sb check I go $20 SB crs to $60.

I think raising or overlimping are both fine preflop. ETA: Actually, against someone who can 3bet light, and this being the ideal spot for it (as we could easily be super wide here after a single limper), I would prefer an overlimp (maybe leaning to raise against ABC tight blinds). Against a solid player who might be capable of putting me in uncomfortable spots, I think I lean to a flop check back, keeping the pot manageable and aiming to get to showdown. Otherwise I bet/fold. In general, I think bet/calling mediocre hands is the worst of all these plays; it builds far too big a pot for the strength of our hand, sets us up for making even bigger mistakes later, and most people who check/raise the flop aren't slowing down on the turn (so if we're not prepared to hurp durp it in on the next street then we should bail sooner). IMO. GcluelessNLnoobG

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812682#post58812682)

$1.1k effective $1/3. $6 straddle. i open KQs MP $20. solid tag sb 3b to $100. sb is probably the best player at the table. straddle folds.

I would limp in. Easy fold for me to the 3bet. Yeah, he's the best player at the table so perhaps some of his range is wider than what we currently have. And yeah, we'll have position. But the SPR will be a handcuffing 5 (reducing our positional advantage), our hand is so easily dominated, and there really is very little reason to ever have to mix it up with the best player at the table. GcluelessNLnoobG

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812692#post58812692)

$1/3 1100 effective two people limp $3, i limp 66 CO, btn limps, blinds check flop 345 two spades, i have no spade. checked to me i go $10. bb CR's to $50. BB's range is tough to play here, hes not that passive but not crazy either. folded to me, what do you do?

I'm fine with the overlimp preflop. I'm fine with the flop bet when it checks to us. I could get behind a flop call here. I think we may have some IO on our four-to-straight due to being able to rep a busted flush. And of course I'm planning on repping the flush if it comes in. So in position I think we have some decent ways to win this hand and can apply pressure at a high SPR. Although, we ain't getting the best immediate price thanks to the large raise, so also no harm in letting it go either. GcluelessNLnoobG

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812533#post58812533)

1/3 $900 effective. 9 handed $6 straddle UTG+1 open $15, i have 44 UTG+2, i call (I think this is bad). anyways. UTG+3 makes it $80. UTG+1 calls. call or muck.

900 effective so with 6 straddle it’s 150ish BB…. I prefer 3!/fold with 44 or fold outright if you don’t think the raise will thin field enough. If the table is loose but not too aggressive preflop where it’s 3+ to every flop I think flatting can work and I’m folding to the 3! Except vs perceived steal from loose aggro players but normal rec I fold to the raise. If it’s loose aggro preflop I think folding is better. If table is tight passive raising, if table alight aggressive folding. another approach for seeing the flop are: villain will stack off with weaker hands this deep when we flop a set so implied odds in our favor, I’m more willing to make some bad EV pre flop decisions to capitalize on profitable post flop EV ones. Problem is mostly the fact that your absolute position rest of hand will be rough so I don’t want to bloat too much preflop no matter what. Say it gets 3! To something 30 and it’s 4 ways and flop is 478ss or something similar, large bets even with bottom set aren’t ideal with two cards to come vs recreational opponents. Or a better example is 994 or TT4, we have a solid hand but 150+ deep - moreso 200+, we want to tread carefullly if villains start shoveling money into the pot/shoving etc. Tho im still stacking off against most rec villains at 150BB, bit because it’s a straddle they may not perceive it as 150 and so are playing as 300BB effective with a 6 live ante or something nonsensical.

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812678#post58812678)

$500 effective $1/3 one bad limper, i iso JTo OTB $20, sb calls. SB is a solid tag, does 3bet light so range cant be that strong here. limper folds. flop T77 rainbow. sb check I go $20 SB crs to $60.

I played two hands in my last session, in which I flat called in the BB after one MP limp and a TAG BTN raise, first with AA, and then with KK. My thinking was that the MP limper was weak and the BTN would be raising wide to ISO, so didn't see the point in 3B'ing, instead preferring to see a flop with a slow played monster, having been an active 3B'er already. I x/r flop of K44 with AA, and they both fold. But I stacked the BTN with KK after he flopped top pair with Jx and I x/r. I wouldn't necessarily assume the blinds are always weak when they flat call pre and x/r the flop. He probably has 7x, but he could occasionally show up with some slow played big PP's.

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812682#post58812682)

$1.1k effective $1/3. $6 straddle. i open KQs MP $20. solid tag sb 3b to $100. sb is probably the best player at the table. straddle folds.

Eww. I probably rage-fold if he's very good and truly TAG.

by NittyOldMan1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58812692#post58812692)

$1/3 1100 effective two people limp $3, i limp 66 CO, btn limps, blinds check flop 345 two spades, i have no spade. checked to me i go $10. bb CR's to $50. BB's range is tough to play here, hes not that passive but not crazy either. folded to me, what do you do?

This deep, I call.

by bb_love m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58813160#post58813160)

5:35am, you joined this table maybe 3-4 orbits ago. Young'ish 27-34 yr old who thinks everything is an ego contest or dick swing competition on your immediate right seems to have some kinda problem with your existence for some weird reason.HH1 Button raises to 15, they flat in the SB, you have AA on BB and make it 75. BU folds, SB calls. Flop Jxx rainbow they check, you bet 75 ... See full post

Yeesh. Think I need a better read here. My gut says fold, but my brain says call. Seems like a diamond draw that picked up some equity on the turn, like A5dd or 54dd. Could also be 75 that doesn't need to see a river. Or maybe just 76dd. I probably call, but not loving it.

by docvail m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58815890#post58815890)

Yeesh. Think I need a better read here. My gut says fold, but my brain says call. Seems like a diamond draw that picked up some equity on the turn, like A5dd or 54dd. Could also be 75 that doesn't need to see a river. Or maybe just 76dd. I probably call, but not loving it.

Yah that where I was too. I reduced weight/#of turned straight combos and two pair given position and PF they weren’t the limp call with everything type player and figured I’m behind turned set and maybe some flopped sets and then remainder of the range open shoving felt like full of hands that needed to realize FE a lot. I think as far as reads per your comment is: if they’re bad they have more value in the shove here vs a better player who would check to my obvious and high likelihood I fire turn and possibly c/raise or call possibly to stack on river with value hands. I tanked for a bit actually and should’ve let my assessment of the K8 4bet hand hold more weight and just folded - they turned a set though. The issue I see with their line is it gives me so much room to dump so much of my range but made me wonder what the bottom of range i call here is if not what i held as well

by bb_love m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58819490#post58819490)

Yah that where I was too. I reduced weight/#of turned straight combos and two pair given position and PF they weren’t the limp call with everything type player and figured I’m behind turned set and maybe some flopped sets and then remainder of the range open shoving felt like full of hands that needed to realize FE a lot.I think as far as reads per your comment is: if they’re b... See full post

So, take this for whatever it's worth, because I think I'm good at low stakes (how can any of us really know?), and I can't really put my mind in the state it was in when I was bad, and figure out what I'd be doing as V here, if V is bad. The best I can do is just look at what I'd be doing as V now (and I'm way too old to engage in dick swinging competitions).... First off, my impression is that the youngest live players (early 20's) are often pretty bad in live games. If this V is late 20's to early 30's, he may have gained enough experience to fix most of the worst leaks that plague newer players.

1. I generally play my entire range as raise-or-fold from every position that isn't the BTN or BB, so it's hard for me to envision what sort of hand or in what situation I'd open limp a UTG straddle in a 1/3 game, $400 deep. But, I might do it to LRR, or if I had a playable hand that could call a raise, but not a 3B.
2. That said, I still can't imagine too many hands that want to limp-call a $30 raise, stuck in the middle between the straddle and the PFR, off a $400 stack. The only hands I'd continue with would be medium PP's looking to set-mine (we'd be getting just slightly more than the right IO to set-mine here).
3. If we give V all the medium PP's, but not 99 (because I'd think he'd open that for a raise), then he could have flopped a set of 6's or turned a set of 8's. I'd think 6's might donk or x/r the flop on a fairly dynamic, two-tone board.
4. I could see V calling the flop with 88, and donk-jamming the turn, because it's a super-wet and dynamic board, with few true river bricks, other than another 3, 8, or 6.
5. But I could also see playing all the 1P + a draw combos this way as a bluff, as well as T7dd, T8dd, 98s, 86s, 75s, 54s - a bunch of hands that have QQ beat, and aren't TOO insane to limp-call the raise pre-flop, once the straddle calls. I sort of like the turn donk-jam with a pair + a draw line, when our opponent (the PFR) has a lot of un-paired AX in his range, and we want to deny equity. I did this in my last session - I turned 2nd pair with an ISSD, and donk-jammed into the PFR. The PFR made a somewhat larger than necessary bet on the flop in that hand too, which made me think he was weak and just hoping I'd fold. I'm not sure I'd do it with a straight here, but I might do it with a turned set, if my table image is maniacal and I think I'll get called. The problem is that whereas we want fold equity with our 1P + a draw hands that may or may not be best, we don't really want to fold out over-pairs when we have a set or straight, and this line just looks so strong. So, if I'm you, facing this fast open jam, I would probably over-fold against the population, which tends to fast-play thick but vulnerable value. But I could see calling against an opponent like me, who I view as capable of having some 1P + a draw semi-bluffs here. But generally, we'd need to be deeper to start, because I wouldn't be limp-calling those combos at only $400 eff. Even if we did start out deeper, there just aren't that many semi-bluffs in my range as V here, because I'd probably just open them for a raise, not limp-call with them. Maybe this V has more, if he's limp-calling a lot of SC's and S1G's pre. I dunno. V shouldn't have straights on the turn, but he might. His value should mostly be 88 or 66, which is only 6 combos. It feels correct to call with QQ, but I wouldn't expect V to be semi-bluffing with 1P + a draw often enough to make calling profitable, so I would mostly just rage-fold.

Here is a fun/easy spot! Just looking for multiway strat advice in a juicy spot.

$1/$2 game on a Monday afternoon EP - MAAG playing around $250. Not a ton of reads at this point, but definitely loose passive. MP - Wily older 2-5 reg. Guessing he bought in for the max of $400. Not a super intimidating player, but wouldn’t be shocked if he was a small winner in the games. BB - Unknown MAWG, seems to be on the tight side, has around $200. Hero - Younger white guy, easily the most aggressive player at the table. I won a couple big pots at the start of the session, but my stack has been ground down over the last 90 minutes. I still cover these three, though. A6ss Open UTG1 to $10. EP calls next to act, MP calls, and BB defends. Flop is Ah Ad 9d ($41 before rake) BB checks, hero bet $15, everyone calls. Turn is Ah Ad 9d 6h ($101 before rake) BB checks. Hero? My first thought is to go bet-bet-bet, but it’s pretty hard to get all the money in that way. My next thought is that the other ace is likely out there (not to mention 99 and 66) and will bet-call a check-raise. Do we risk the check? Do we ever trap and go check-call? Also curious if other people open fold (or even open limp) this particular suited ace at a very passive table.

I would just bet $30 on the turn. Anyone with a flush draw or Ax is likely calling. Flush draws won't call the river if they miss.

by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58820802#post58820802)

Here is a fun/easy spot! Just looking for multiway strat advice in a juicy spot.--$1/$2 game on a Monday afternoonEP - MAAG playing around $250. Not a ton of reads at this point, but definitely loose passive.MP - Wily older 2-5 reg. Guessing he bought in for the max of $400. Not a super intimidating player, but wouldn’t be shocked if he was a small winner in the games. BB - Unk... See full post

You're only getting calls from Ax, maybe some 9x, and maybe some TT-KK. I would just bet 2/3 pot and pray someone calls. If you bet small, it looks like you're super nutted.

how many live hours do i need for an (somewhat) accurate winrate?

utg i'm folding A6s as played i'm checking, you have nothing but a bluff catcher there 3 ways

by shynepo3 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821266#post58821266)

how many live hours do i need for an (somewhat) accurate winrate?

Go to the winrates thread and prepare to be told that you’ll never know for sure

by feel wrath m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821356#post58821356)

Go to the winrates thread and prepare to be told that you’ll never know for sure

()

by elmcityboy m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58820802#post58820802)

A6ssOpen UTG1 to $10. EP calls next to act, MP calls, and BB defends. Flop is Ah Ad 9d ($41 before rake)BB checks, hero bet $15, everyone calls.Turn is Ah Ad 9d 6h ($101 before rake)BB checks. Hero?My first thought is to go bet-bet-bet, but it’s pretty hard to get all the money in that way. My next thought is that the other ace is likely out there (not to mention 99 and 6... See full post

I fold this hand pre- full ring unless either significantly deeper e.g. 300bb+ or its the softest lineup ever. AP I bet small (25% to 35%) to target flush draws or stubborn 9x, given we are still 4 ways OTT. No way I'm checking and risking a check-through from hands like A4o. Also if someone is going to get frisky with trips, they may raise a small bet.

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58821318#post58821318)

utg i'm folding A6s as played i'm checking, you have nothing but a bluff catcher there 3 ways

? He has the second nuts

A6ss is a fold utg As played bet bet bet. We want stacks in by the river Bet enough on the turn to make a river jam half pot ish. So maybe like $70 We want AK to A10 to call and hope a flush draw calls and gets there on the river