Ask me about being an airline pilot or flying in general

I wasn't even aware of OOT until someone recently suggested I start this thread here. (I had posted a question about Vegas on B&M). I have been flying since 1977 and have accumulated a little over 15,000 hours of flying time. Besides an Airline Transport Pilot license, I also have a CFI (Certificated Flight Instructor), and Flight Engineer license (not much use to me now since 727s no longer fly passengers in the U.S.). Through the 80s I was strictly a light airplane pilot, accumulating hours wherever I could: Saturday junkets to Atlantic City in a twin engine Piper Seneca; flight instructing; flying a politician around Virginia; flying HAZMAT out of Dulles airport (Stinger rocket motors for the army). I've had ownership (or part ownership) in 3 different airplanes: Piper Cherokee 180; Grumman Yankee; and Piper Turbo Arrow. I lived in Hawaii for 2 years and flew to all the islands out there, renting aircraft from the Hickam Aero Club. I also spent 3 months in Japan and flew with the Yokota Aero Club. At that time I was a computer programmer and engineering manager providing on-site support to the military (CINCPACAF, and PACFLT in Hawaii; 5th Air Force in Japan). In early 90s I finally decided to fly full time and took about a $65k pay cut to go fly for a regional airline, Atlantic Coast Airlines, out of Dulles airport in Virginia. I flew the Jetstream 32 (19 seat turboprop), the Jetstream 41 (29 seat turboprop) and the Canadair Regional Jet (50 seat jet) while at ACA. I also did simulator instruction, line checks, and gave new hires their Initial Operating Experience (IOE) while there. I got hired by a major airline in 2000 and 'flew sideways' for about 6 months (flight engineer on the Boeing 727) before moving to the McDonnell Douglas MD-88, configured with 142 seats. In early 2007 I moved to the Boeing 767-300ER (the ER stands for Extended Range...it carries more fuel than the standard model) and began flying international routes. Most of those have been to Europe, but I've also been to Africa and South America. My older brother flies for the same company, on the same airplane, and at the same base as me. We've actually had 2 flights together (Amsterdam and Nice). I love the job, but the profession sure ain't what it used to be. Now that I finally made it to a major airline (the "Bigs") after 20+ years of building time, pay has been slashed at most airlines and we've lost our pensions. At 54 years of age, I am pulling down about $110k. I say "about" because we are paid by the hour -- it's not a salary. I do like the fact that the job affords me a great deal of leisure time. This month I was flying on the 1st and 2nd (completing a 3 day trip to Nice) then had a day off and flew a 3 day trip to Moscow (Nov 4-6), followed by my current trip to Sao Paulo (Nov 7-10). After that, I'm off until Nov 25th when I fly a 3 day trip to Vegas, my first domestic trip in over 2 years. That's 14 days off...pretty nice. I also like the fact that I never dread going to work. I couldn't say that in my previous life as a Systems Engineer. The worst part about my job now is that I live in D.C. area but fly out of JFK in NY. That means that I have to go hop a flight to NY to get to work. Commuting is a fact of life for many airline pilots; very few of our NY based pilots actually live in the NY area. Anyway, that's a basic intro and I'd be glad to try to clear up any questions/misconceptions about flying in general (either GA or Airline flying) or day-to-day aspects of the job. BTW, let me say that when it comes to PAs to the passengers I absolutely hate the hackneyed phrase that so many pilots and flight attendants use: "Now sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight." So trite and to me it almost sounds like a cruel taunt.

by AquaSwing m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58394789#post58394789)

I'm in with the full auto pilot. I'm awesome at pushing buttons and fairly good at following directions! :p Serious question - could you step into any commercial plane right now and land it, including those you've never flown?

In a Boeing, yes. In an Airbus, I would definitely want an Airbus pilot on the radio to talk me through the automation.

I could do it...

Nope, no chance. No way I'm coordinated enough to manage all the inputs and react appropriately and quickly enough. W0X0F, what about non-commercial aircraft? Know enough about (say) an Air Force plane to have an opinion about whether you'd be able to fly one of them?

by W0X0F m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58399441#post58399441)

In a Boeing, yes. In an Airbus, I would definitely want an Airbus pilot on the radio to talk me through the automation.

Thank you. Remind me to ensure you're on my flight when both pilots become incapacitated! Comments on the Tokyo collision?

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58399498#post58399498)

Nope, no chance. No way I'm coordinated enough to manage all the inputs and react appropriately and quickly enough. W0X0F, what about non-commercial aircraft? Know enough about (say) an Air Force plane to have an opinion about whether you'd be able to fly one of them?

Military planes are certainly sophisticated but to the best of my knowledge they are straightfoward flying machines. I could ignore the weapons systems, contermeasures features, and radar and just concentrate on stick and rudder. I'd like to think that I could manage to get it on the ground without loss of the aircraft, even it wouldn't necessarily be pretty. But there's a non-zero chance that I'm kidding myself. The reason I singled out Airbus is that I know enough from talking to friends who have flown it that I realize that the Airbus is all about the automation. Whereas we engage the autopilot on a Boeing (and, I presume, military aircraft), the Airbus is essentially always on autopilot to an extent. Establish a pitch attitude and relax control inputs and it maintains that attitude. Same with bank. (At least that's my understanding from Airbus pilots I've talked to.) There are also features of the automation to "save" a pilot from his inputs if the software deems them to be unsafe or incorrect. If you're in the wrong mode, you might find the Airbus initiating a climb even though you are trying to descend. I'm not really explaining it well, but basically the idea of hand flying an Airbus without concern for the automation and the underlying software is not the way it's flown.

by AquaSwing m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58399935#post58399935)

Thank you. Remind me to ensure you're on my flight when both pilots become incapacitated! Comments on the Tokyo collision?

I hadn't heard about it and my main takeaway is that it's beyond amazing to me that everyone on board the Airbus 350 survived.

WTF is going on here: https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/loca... (https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/london-denver-flight-diverted-to-las-vegas-airport-due-to-flat-tire-2975078/) Plane is going from London to Denver and has a problem (flat tire). So it apparently flies past Denver and lands in Las Vegas? Why? If it can land with a flat tire in LV, surely it can land in Denver also. And if the flat tire requires a urgent landing, then why go to the farther airport?

by AquaSwing m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58399935#post58399935)

Comments on the Tokyo collision?

Here is a good presentation of what occurred. Obviously runway incursion, but the investigation will determine where the breakdown was. Haneda Collision 2 Jan 2024 - YouTube

Tap to unmute

Haneda Collision 2 Jan 2024 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_sQ1L_xPmo)blancolirio (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCphqjYZxxzjNbONVmY-0J7Q) blancolirio617K subscribers

by Melkerson m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58400486#post58400486)

WTF is going on here: https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/loca... (https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/london-denver-flight-diverted-to-las-vegas-airport-due-to-flat-tire-2975078/)Plane is going from London to Denver and has a problem (flat tire). So it apparently flies past Denver and lands in Las Vegas?Why? If it can land with a flat tire in LV, surely it can land in Denver also. And if the flat tire r... See full post

The only two things I can think of that would make Las Vegas preferable to Denver are lower airport elevation (which translates to lower touchdown speed) and longer runway. 25L at LAS is over 15,000’ long. It could be that the crew considered the degraded landing performance and chose LAS based on these factors. But I must admit that my initial reaction was the same as yours.

by W0X0F m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58400777#post58400777)

Here is a good presentation of what occurred. Obviously runway incursion, but the investigation will determine where the breakdown was. ... See full post

The fault imo lies entirely on the ground/local controller. When I'm told to hold short of an active runway for an intersection departure, they always emphasize it to me very clearly, and will usually add-in "Hold short runway 35R landing traffic" or "hold short 35R traffic on short final" and the a/c should also read back the instructions. If there's no readback, the controller should have made sure he followed those instructions. They should also learn how to speak better english. If he was the ground controller, he should of noticed the incursion (especially if the instructions weren't read back) and should of had enough time to tell the local controller to send the other guy around, so it looks like he made 3 disastrous mistakes - mumbling an important hold short instruction, not hearing the guy read it back to confirm (he should have repeated it again if there was not read back), and not noticing him enter the active runway with traffic on short final. That guy should at the very least lose his job if not more. He was totally negligent. The coast guard pilot is also at fault if he didn't read back the instructions.

Re: Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mis... (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/missing-door-plug-alaska-airlines-flight-found-oregon-backyard-rcna132785)

The cockpit voice recorder’s record of the event was inadvertently taped over, NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy said Sunday night

Is it common for this to happen inadvertently?

The device from Friday’s flight automatically recorded over the pertinent voice data because someone failed to power it down, she said. It starts a fresh recording, wiping out the last one, every two hours. “The circuit breaker was not pulled,” Homendy said.

.

by gregorio m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408124#post58408124)

Re: Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mis... (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/missing-door-plug-alaska-airlines-flight-found-oregon-backyard-rcna132785) Is it common for this to happen inadvertently?

Another question on this incident: The news said that a Low Pressure warning light came on, not just on the flight when this happened, but on 2 or 3 prior flights. What is the SOP for troubleshooting such a warning light?

by Kurn, son of Mogh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408576#post58408576)

Another question on this incident: The news said that a Low Pressure warning light came on, not just on the flight when this happened, but on 2 or 3 prior flights. What is the SOP for troubleshooting such a warning light?

You don't really trouble shoot it in the air, just gotta head down to at or below 10K feet as soon as possible and put on oxygen masks or it will cause hypoxia which isn't good for someone flying an airplane and I could be wrong but I believe they troubleshoot it on the ground by pumping air into the cabin and someone inside of it lights up a cigar, then he follows the smoke to see if it rushes out anywhere but I'm not sure if that's how the airlines do it. It seems like they couldn't find the leak in the prior instances so they put it back into service and restricted it to flights over land only (this is in case of a depressurization they'll have somewhere to land, it's not really because they're in danger of ditching it into the ocean if they lose cabin pressure and no one would expect a sealed door to come flying off due to a pressure leak).

by Kurn, son of Mogh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58408576#post58408576)

Another question on this incident: The news said that a Low Pressure warning light came on, not just on the flight when this happened, but on 2 or 3 prior flights. What is the SOP for troubleshooting such a warning light?

The only Low Pressure warnings on an aircraft are for low fuel pressure. Low cabin pressure is triggered at a cabin altitude of 10,000' and will cause a CABIN ALT warning message on the EICAS, an aural emergency alert, and a flashing red "attention getter" light (one light in front of each pilot; either pilot can silence the aural alert by pressing the the red warning light on the coaming panel). If not rectified and the cabin continues climbing (i.e. pressure keeps decreasing), the passenger O2 masks will drop when the cabin reaches an altitude of 14,500'. This situation is covered in the QRH (Quick Reference Handbook which contains checklists for emergency and abnormal situations) but is one of the emergencies that has memory items associated with it. The memory items are the first steps in the appropriate checklist (in this case, the CABIN ALT checklist) but are required to be performed from memory before reaching for the QRH. In our CABIN ALT checklist, the only memory items are the first two steps: DON OXYGEN MASKS ESTABLISH CREW COMMUNICATIONS With the O2 mask on, the pilots need to select the microphone in the mask for comms. Once the masks are on and good communication established, the QRH is consulted. This will driect the pilots to descend below 10,000' (terrain permitting). If terrain is higher than 10,000, we would have already briefed the quickest heading necessary to fly to lower terrain. This is done routinely when overflying high terrain.

by W0X0F m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58414742#post58414742)

The only Low Pressure warnings on an aircraft are for low fuel pressure.Low cabin pressure is triggered at a cabin altitude of 10,000' and will cause a CABIN ALT warning message on the EICAS, an aural emergency alert, and a flashing red "attention getter" light (one light in front of each pilot; either pilot can silence the aural alert by pressing the the red warning light on t... See full post

Thank you, and thanks to Playbig2000 for your answers. I can only wonder if the reporter got something wrong in the story about 2 or 3 prior incidents with the same aircraft. Otherwise, I don't have a good feeling about Alaska Air.

Thank you Captain Obvious...

OP... why would the Pilot of MH370 go thru such an elaborate series of procedures to purposefully crash and kill all of his passengers? Why not just dive into the side of a mountain...

Saturday, we had an unusual (for here, DEN) wet and heavy snow. It as also coming down at a good rate. While out there moving that slop around, I heard planes taking off, going overhead. Does heavier (either in water content or inches/hour, or both) snow affect safe takeoffs and landings any more than a "normal" snow?

How much did you get? We got 11 but I don't think that was much more than you. I would assume the runways plowed the same and the glycol worked better since it was close to 32 degrees?

by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58452510#post58452510)

Thank you Captain Obvious... ... See full post

I can confirm. It really is a struggle to maintain altitude. But earlier itt I told the story of a sim ride I had with extra time available to us just for grins. I asked to try a dead stick landing (B-757), so we went up to FL350, 90 miles east of SFO, and cut off both engines. Yada yada yada...safe landing at SFO...on speed and in the touchdown zone.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58452704#post58452704)

Saturday, we had an unusual (for here, DEN) wet and heavy snow. It as also coming down at a good rate. While out there moving that slop around, I heard planes taking off, going overhead. Does heavier (either in water content or inches/hour, or both) snow affect safe takeoffs and landings any more than a "normal" snow?

I get what you’re asking, but there is nothing in any aviation weather reports that distinguishes wetness or heaviness of the snow. Snow is reported as light, moderate, or heavy and that’s measured by visibility.

@AquaSwing, it was about 4-5" total. Thanks W0X0F.

I always wonder the frequency with which airplanes undergo mechanical and technical inspection? Is it thorough? Like I've heard people say things about lower budget airlines not really inspecting the planes enough and hope that isn't true. Also I'm wondering, does turbulence ever make pilots nervous? Perhaps just for the fact that a passenger can bang their head? Do seatbelts help much with extreme turbulence? I assume yes, and always wondered why people knocked seatbelt use on planes thank you!

Not a good week to be a private plane pilot in FL. A small plane crashed into a trailer park in Clearwater killing pilot and two people in the trailer. Then this afternoon a plane tried landing on I75 in Naples killing 2 of 5 on board.

My admin assistant is going to airplane mechanic school in the evenings. He makes a lot of simple repetitive errors. I'll let everyone know what airline hires him so we can all avoid flying it 😀

All airplanes are required under a federal aviation regulation to have an annual inspection, and planes that are "for hire" that carry passengers also have a 100 hour inspection.

by johnzimbo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58456743#post58456743)

My admin assistant is going to airplane mechanic school in the evenings. He makes a lot of simple repetitive errors. I'll let everyone know what airline hires him so we can all avoid flying it 😀

Lol everything he does on an aircraft needs to be signed off on by the head A&P mechanic. He's the guy that checks everyone's work before the plane can be put back on the line, so rest assured!

W0X0F, what’s your take on the United Airlines SF to Boston flight having to land in Denver because part of what appears to be a slat in the process of disintegrating?

Is this sort of damage serious? How often do these sorts of events occur?

I'm listening to a podcast of some local sports talk radio guys who sometimes go on road trips with the local teams. They're saying that the charter flights will take off/land in much worse conditions than regular flights and/or fly through bad weather that a regular commercial flight would detour around. Is this true? Are there conditions a charter will go through that a normal commercial flight wouldn't just because of comfort?

mark, I'll let you in on a secret: the airlines don't like the Cowboys as much as you do.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58514795#post58514795)

mark, I'll let you in on a secret: the airlines don't like the Cowboys as much as you do.

apparently mother nature doesn't either

by marknfw m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58514548#post58514548)

I'm listening to a podcast of some local sports talk radio guys who sometimes go on road trips with the local teams. They're saying that the charter flights will take off/land in much worse conditions than regular flights and/or fly through bad weather that a regular commercial flight would detour around. Is this true? Are there conditions a charter will go through that a norma... See full post

Absolutely not. I flew several charter flights for both military and pro sports teams. There is not one iota of difference in the procedures the pilots use for these flights.

Thanks, that's what I figured. Note to haterz: it was the Stars' charter flight

What made you want to be a pilot as a boy when if you wreck, you're dead? Any big emergencies in your career?

by FellaGaga-52 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58516285#post58516285)

What made you want to be a pilot as a boy when if you wreck, you're dead? Any big emergencies in your career?

Part of it might have been that my father was a Naval Aviator (USNA ‘50), but he never talked about flying at home when I was a kid..perhaps some kind of understanding with my mother. For some reason, I was just taken with the idea of flight. I might have never acted on it, but things just came together when I graduated college. I got motivated to graduate early after realizing that not everyone had a free ride courtesy of their parents. Many of my friends worked while attending college. I felt a little guilty and, even though I had a partial scholarship (National Merit), I decided to save my dad a semester of cost. Duke tuition was $4000/year at the time...a princely sum. So I was at home after Christmas and looking for a job. One of our neighbors, Jim Cheboneaux, was at “cocktail hour” at my parents’ house (a time honored tradition of the time) and he talked up flying with me. Jim had flown 100 missions in the P-51 in Korea and then went to work for the CIA, flying the U-2 in the late ‘50s. (He was the backup pilot for Gary Powers for the flight that was shot down by the Russians.) He had just used the GI Bill to get his flight instructor certificate and offered to teach me for free. What a great deal! I put the job search on hold, rationalizing that my early graduation was the perfect excuse to pursue my dream. But after one lesson, Jim accepted a job with NASA at Moffett Field (San Jose) as head of their High Altitude Missions branch (civilian U-2 operations). At this point I was hooked. Jim recommended another CFI and I got my PPL 4 months later (June 77). As to your second question, I think I declared an emergency twice in my airline career, not counting three medical emergency diverts (all in the same year). One was for a cargo fire warning while on approach at IAD which turned out to be a false alarm. The other was a main power bus failure on the MD-88 flying into LGA on a VMC day. Neither instance amounted to much. In GA flying, I’ve had two engine failures in single-engine 4-seaters. The full stories on those are in this thread. Briefly, the first was a partial engine failure in a Grumman Tiger (one cylinder had swallowed a valve). I couldn’t maintain altitude and declared an emergency, landing at Phillips AAF, Aberdeen Proving Grounds. The second was a complete engine failure in a Mooney Executive. I was at 7000’ IFR in clouds and extremely heavy rain at the time. That was by far the most serious single episode in my flying experience. By the grace of Crom, I lived to tell about it.

Crom? What about FSM? 😉 I was on a flight once with a medical. Early AM flight from Costa Rica back to Denver (diverted through Houston, but not for this--we were told they didn't have enough fuel at the CR airport). Anyway, on the second leg, heard a loud thump near the front of the cabin, and some commotion. Turned out the person passed out waiting for the bathroom. Said she hadn't eaten prior to the flight. Fortunately, had some people onboard with medical knowledge. They checked it out, said ok not to divert. Cleared a row so she could lay down, got her something to eat/drink. Upon landing, the EMTs came and got her off on a stretcher. Only time I've experienced something on a flight, but occasionally I think about how bad it would be if happened while over the ocean/some remote area/whatever. I'm sure it would be fine. You guys and your cohorts are pros, and would work the problem.

W0X0F - did I Dream of Jeannie have any influence on your career?

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58518635#post58518635)

Crom? What about FSM? 😉

If I had given it more thought I certainly would have invoked FSM and his noodly appendages. I have an FSM shirt I often wear while playing poker. Parmesan be upon him. R’amen.

by REDeYeS00 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58518777#post58518777)

W0X0F - did I Dream of Jeannie have any influence on your career?

Not that I’m aware of. A little perplexed by the question. Do you ask because astronauts were in it, or am I missing something?

yeah, because astronauts...who mostly seemed to be pilots until a higher calling

Any thoughts on Amelia Earhart? A personal fave of mine, first entry in a book of heroines I did.

1. Any thoughts on this DEI crap and potential diversity hires? I don't know much about it, just saw clips on YT about it.
2. Why are so many commercial pilots still confusing Starlink satellites with UFOs or something else?
3. Is there a problem in the industry where pilots are unlikely to mention/treat mental health issues because they fear losing their license?
4. Do you ever watch the YouTube channels like Pilot Debrief? I like that dude.

by W0X0F m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=14441645#post14441645)

I use the pillows all the time. They are replaced on each flight.

did I read this correctly whether used or not, all pillows are disposed of after each and every flight

They are probably washed.

Surprised they allowed movement through 2-3 feet of water... Twitter EmbedNot found

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Can't remember if this has been talked about. How far from the airport to flights "turn around" to go the direction they really want to? Details: You've mentioned that planes always take off into the wind. I live about 18 mi WNW of DEN; when I see flights go over the neighborhood, they continue in a more-or-less westerly direction until they're out of sight. So, I'm assuming the eastbound flights have taken off to the west, and have already arced around (or these flights took off east, and turned, depending on that day's wind). Wondering where that "turn point" is.

by golddog m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58615934#post58615934)

Can't remember if this has been talked about. How far from the airport to flights "turn around" to go the direction they really want to?Details: You've mentioned that planes always take off into the wind. I live about 18 mi WNW of DEN; when I see flights go over the neighborhood, they continue in a more-or-less westerly direction until they're out of sight.So, I'm assuming t... See full post

I recall the few times I flew LAX-BOS, as we taxied out, I could see a sign saying something like * No turning before the coast* or something like that. Probably noise mitigation for coastal communities. OTOH, taking off from BOS or PVD, I notice we would begin the turn very soon after getting airborne. Probably varies by location.

More than once I've taken off out of Las Vegas heading southwest on 19L or 19R and instead of turning the ~140 degrees left to head back ENE we went the ~220 degrees to the right. Why the longer turn?

by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58519104#post58519104)

did I read this correctly whether used or not, all pillows are disposed of after each and every flight

by Phresh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=58519170#post58519170)

They are probably washed.

Maybe they are washed, I don't know. But they're cheap little excuses for a pillow and seem like they're disposable to me. The ones in First Class or Business Class are actually decent and come to the plane in plastic wrap. I could believe those are cleaned somehow and recycled. But this is way out of my area of knowledge.