Is poker "gambling"?

This is something i ponder. I am a christain, and many people view playing poker for money is against christian believeifs. Because poker is considered gambling (https://www.casino.us/). Now, I have done a little bit of research to see what gambling really is and came across this blog.

I enjoyed reading it and Can agree with most of what is being said, however it does not answer strait "yes" or "no" if poker is gambling or not, but gives some good info about what gambling is.

Check it out and i would like to hear some feed back 😉

http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-poker-gambling

and from what the article was saying, many things can be considered gambling 🙂

Just my .02, but I believe poker is definately gambling. Gotta agree with Doyle there. You are wagering on the outcome of an unknown event (the cards that will come to make the board and how they will connect with to help, or hurt, your starting hand). There is much more to it than that of course, but still definately gambling.

I thought it was funny in the article that the writer said there were many things that were -EV, like marriage. I'm guessing someone has had some bad experiences😉 .

On a side note, and NOT to get into a big religious debate, but I wonder how many churches condemn poker, slots (https://www.casino.us/slots/how-to-play/), etc, etc, but still run a weekly bingo night? If its OK for the churches, or at least certain churches....

Just sayin.

Hand to hand, sure it's gambling because chance plays a role in the outcome.

Long term, it's not imo. Skill is the determining factor.

life is a gamble. you're never certain about outcomes; you're attempting to choose the best options based on the odds (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/).

life is gambling. you are never sure of any outcome, you are (trying) to make the best decisions given the odds.

I def. agree with this haha. So i gues i should stop living since I am doing something God does not want me to do 😛

JK JK

But it is ture that even things that the church considers "not gambling" in hines sight, is actually a risk, or a gamble. Risk and gamble... hmmm do these things go hand in hand? like a -EV marraige 😛

I guess im going to just sit in my room and read the bible. That is not a gamble to sit and read is it?

I guess i RISK the fact i could get a paper cut, but the pages are very thin so i feel my skin is durable enough to hand the edge's 😛

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/mike-kosowski-wins-pokerstars-million-dollar-challenge-7112/

The preacher who won the pokestars million dollar challenge didn't think it was against his religion. Also, I believe a PA judge ruled holdem wasn't gambling, it was a game of skill to try to bypass gambling laws.

Poker is not gambling, i´s investing. It´s only gambling if you play only few hands (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-hands/), dont care about the money or play for fun.

If you play it seriously, it´s not gambling in the long run.

Play 1 million hands and there´s no luck anymore..

😎

Like beauty ... 'gambling' is in the eye of the player.

Best definition I have found is...

"Risking anything of value on an uncertain outcome".

btw, my response was mostly to point out this is basically a definition war. you could say that buying a raffle ticket to benefit cancer research is gambling, but its mostly just what you consider to be gambling.

although im not religious, i think the best response would be to talk to your minister/pastor/priest or whatever and ask them for their definition, or just say the hell (literally) with it and do it anyway.

Its all been said, but just sat down with my coffee, so I will add here as well.

Poker is definitly gambling when it is played by some people. And it is these people that allow people like me to believe I have a chance to maybe make a small (define "small" lol) income with it, and it is these people that certainly contribute big to pro players ROI.

If the hand goes to showdown, then the gambling part can come into play. But that will depend on a number of things. Lets say you put your opponent on a High A due to his past play when he limped in MP and called your 4x raise from the button with TT. The flop comes K T 4 RB. he checks and you, trappy and sneaky player that you are, check behind. You are now convinced that he has the Ax. Turn is A. he bets 1/2 pot and you call. river is 5, no flush draw. he bets 3/4 pot, you go all in, he calls.

OK, now we come to SD. If he has that AX, were you gambling? Because you were using your information on him to make your decision to invest your money, I say no. If he has KK or JQ and was just being more trappy than you, does that change the answer to "yes"? I dont think so. What has happened in that case is that you have invested money to increase your information pool, and now know this players tendencies better, and can adjust your play against him in future battles. If you went to showdown purely on the strength of your trips, and did not lose too much thought over your opponents holdings, then this hand was a total gamble for you.

Next hand. You are on the button with Q9s. A SnG, 5 left, blinds 100-200. It is folded to you, and one fold is an extremely SS. You have an slightly larger stack than the blinds, you all have between 10-14 BB. So you go all in against the blinds. You believe the blinds are both decent players, so is this a gamble, or a good decision seeing as a player is about to blind out, and no one is going to risk their tourney life unless they have a premium hand? Win or lose, these decisions are based on thought and information, so, while a risk is certainly present, there are more factors influencing the outcome than just the cards.

This is the deciding factor here. Why you do what you do. And that is why the real answer to the question "Is poker gambling?" would be:

It depends.

Lol So some situations would be gambling, and others would be influenced by information that I have gathered on "villain" def. makes sense. So i guess I can say that poker is only a gamble if you make it a gamble 🙂 There are situations were you tell your self, im just gana shove this hand and hope for the best, and other times u tell urself, I have a 70% chance to win so In the long run i will profit with this outcome, thus taking away the gamble factor.

Lol So some situations would be gambling, and others would be influenced by information that I have gathered on "villain" def. makes sense. So i guess I can say that poker is only a gamble if you make it a gamble 🙂 There are situations were you tell your self, im just gana shove this hand and hope for the best, and other times u tell urself, I have a 70% chance to win so In the long run i will profit with this outcome, thus taking away the gamble factor.

Yes, and there are a number of other things to consider as well. Like hands that do not go to showdown. Why dont they? For example, I know both blinds are tight, and I have 2 7o on the button, and I shove or bet (this is hypothetical, and many factors would have to be considered, but in the right situation, I am doing this). One of them may wake up with AA-QQ or AK, but mainly not. So I am "gambling" not that my hand is good, but rather that their hands are not. But it is not a gamble really, as I know they will fold often enough to make it +ev in the long run. Many more example possible, such as going over the top as SB or BB and the button is stealing often, and so on. As long as these decisions are made on information you have gathered, the odds offered etc. then they are decisions with a certain amount of risk, but IMO not "Gambling". I am interpreting gambling as being an outcome based purely on random luck. And if you play using reads, math, odds, position, etc. then the randomness has been greatly reduced. The gambling factor is greater when your opponents play purely on luck, since they will not react on what you do, but rather on what they have and how much donkey blood is in their veins.

The funny thing is, I had a 3 hour debate last night with someone trying to explain this:

" I am interpreting gambling as being an outcome based purely on random luck. And if you play using reads, math, odds, position, etc. then the randomness has been greatly reduced. The gambling factor is greater when your opponents play purely on luck, since they will not react on what you do, but rather on what they have and how much donkey blood is in their veins."

But eventually had to give up and just take his money... 😉

I feel like it is definately a gamble, you not going to win on bad cards. A good poker player is someone that is very lucky, the ones that say that there is alot of skill is full of it.

Life is a gambling too

Are you asking this question for real? Wally

This is something i ponder. I am a christain, and many people view playing poker for money is against christian believeifs. Because poker is considered gambling. Now, I have done a little bit of research to see what gambling really is and came across this blog.

I enjoyed reading it and Can agree with most of what is being said, however it does not answer strait "yes" or "no" if poker is gambling or not, but gives some good info about what gambling is.

Check it out and i would like to hear some feed back 😉

http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-poker-gambling

and from what the article was saying, many things can be considered gambling 🙂

No question — to me it’s unequivocally gambling. Even the most proficient player can be beaten by a less skilled opponent who simply gets lucky. In a tournament, you also need luck to avoid someone else getting fortunate against you.

Think About It !

If you believe it is OR believe it is not; either way, you are correct. Wally 🙂

This is something i ponder. I am a christain, and many people view playing poker for money is against christian believeifs. Because poker is considered gambling. Now, I have done a little bit of research to see what gambling really is and came across this blog.

I enjoyed reading it and Can agree with most of what is being said, however it does not answer strait "yes" or "no" if poker is gambling or not, but gives some good info about what gambling is.

Check it out and i would like to hear some feed back 😉

http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-poker-gambling

and from what the article was saying, many things can be considered gambling 🙂

Any time you wager on anything, whether it is a game of skill or chance, it's gambling. I'd consider a bet on a chess match to be gambling as well.

I feel like it's definitely a gamble; you won't win with bad cards. A good poker player is someone who gets very lucky — those who claim there's a lot of skill are lying.

LMAO.............

So much is wrong here that it makes no sense to contradict....

Hand to hand, sure it's gambling because chance plays a role in the outcome.

Long term, it's not imo. Skill is the determining factor.

This is exactly the same type of topic like mine where I ask of there is luck or skill... same type of answers etc.

This is something i ponder. I am a christain, and many people view playing poker for money is against christian believeifs. Because poker is considered gambling. Now, I have done a little bit of research to see what gambling really is and came across this blog.

I enjoyed reading it and Can agree with most of what is being said, however it does not answer strait "yes" or "no" if poker is gambling or not, but gives some good info about what gambling is.

Check it out and i would like to hear some feed back 😉

http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-poker-gambling

and from what the article was saying, many things can be considered gambling 🙂

I think as long as you keep God first in your life then your fine.

Not all poker is gambling.. only when you spend money to play it in an effort to win more money. But then again, so is buying and selling on the stock market and investing in the real estate business.... those could both be considered gambling as well.

When you play poker for money as a hobby, treat it as entertainment money. Like you're going to the movies. Treat it like you are never going to see that money ever again and spend it wisely, and you'll be fine.

What a question. Is snow white?

What a question. Is snow white?

I agree with you but the question is useless.

Argument: If it wouldn't be considered gambling then you are basically saying there ia no luck only skill and you can easily compare it to chess which is totally WRONG!

Of course poker is gambling. You are putting money on something to hope to happen (win). Anything with odds involved and money, is gambling. Of course it's not like a roulette (https://www.casino.us/roulette/) wheel or the lottery where indeed this is just luck. There are ways to play in poker to "win" consistently. Just like horse racing, there are handicappers who know the ins and outs who can make a living from it but still they are gambling.

so even if i can be a winning player and ven if it is 51% and i lose 49% of the time, i am a gambling (https://www.casino.us/), Even tho I am making a profit? Slow yes, but still the $ is increasing slowly.

I think games that are considered "gambling" are any game in the casino tha is not poker. (besides Black JAck, if u can count you are not gambling you are winning about 55% of the time so u have a slow income)

Don't let other people dictate how you should live, and you'll be far happier. 🙂

I couldn't care less whether anyone labels it gambling or judges it right or wrong. I enjoy doing it and I don't harm anyone — including myself. 😛

Seriously.

Being a Christian is a gamble, right? No one can be sure which religion is true, if any.

What a question. Is snow white?

Only until the dogs get to it...

No, Poker is not gambling. You can intentionally lose money at Poker. Gambling is the act of a purely odds (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/)-based return on your money where no action by you can affect the outcome.

You gamble at horse racing, keno, craps, roulette (https://www.casino.us/roulette/), and slot machines. Poker, blackjack (https://www.casino.us/blackjack/), and baccarat (https://www.casino.us/baccarat/) are wagering games where an element of skill is required due to the interaction of the player with the game.

I enjoy playing it and don't hurt anyone when I do - including myself. 😛 Seriously.

Wish I could say that! Never hurt anyone else, although if I could reach through my internet connection........

I HAVE, however, injured myself more than once after the 10th bad beat in a session. Sometimes the urge to punch something is just overwhelming. Sometimes I don't choose wisely when punching things. Gotta wrk on that. Choosing better things, I mean😀 .

Poker can be viewed as a contest of skill, for example Phil Ivey versus anyone, or you can sit at a poker table and gamble. The decision is yours.

If your aim is purely to gamble, play bingo.

That's simply how things are.

Go to your local church and tell everybody you bought a weekly lotto ticket. I bet most of them won't even give you any reaction. Then tell them that you play poker for money sometimes. Now you are going straight to hell.

People have no right to judge you.

It only matters whats in your own head.

I am writing a persuasive paper on Poker: Is it gambling? And I am now the opposition

All I have to say is that gambling can be anything, just like what Arthur says. It's a gamble to plant a tree, because the tree could one day be struck by lightning, fall, and kill someone. I believe that poker is one hundred percent a gamble. Some people are blessed with great opportunities in poker and they also exploit weaknesses in other players' games. If you play enough hands (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-hands/) you will learn a lot about poker and may be able to gain maximum +EV out of every situation. Some people are blessed (God given) with better cards. (I am convinced that God is real and that Jesus Christ is God and that he was on this Earth.) I also think that no matter what some people do that they will not be winning players. Dark Assassin, think of it like this: If you are wishing that you could make yourself feel better because it's so much fun to play and try to win, you are probably doing wrong. You may end up winning huge one day(it will be a gamble to get to that point), and if and when you do (you will be wasting your time because you are probably still out of God's will and not getting the overall message out.) I think I have decided that I am going to quit playing poker for money that I am not willing to lose (I think that if you are risking money that you don't mind throwing in the garbage and forgetting about, then you are not really risking anything). The main point is: what could you use that money for (glorifying God and Jesus)? I think that if you are gambling with people and you are witnessing while you do it, it isn't wrong as long as you let them know you don't care about the money you are risking.

Poker is....

Poker is patience. It is not gambling. Why do you see so many of the same faces at the final table? Because they play poker and don’t gamble. Now bingo — that’s gambling, and you can almost always find a good bingo game happening at your nearby church. imo Bigbigbucs.

Of course it’s gambling, bigbucs. Every hand involves risk because you’re putting money down based on the odds of something happening. That’s gambling. Sure, there are winning players who can exploit others and understand the game better, but even greats like Phil Ivey GAMBLE on every hand they play. FACT — there’s no two ways about it.

Even if you somehow knew the opponent’s hand preflop and went all-in with your aces against their deuces, it’s still a gamble: one where you’re the favorite and will win most of the time. Nevertheless, it remains a gamble, just like backing any odds-on favorite horse — an uncertain outcome you can’t predict 100%.

I’m not denying people can and do make a living and profit from it; that’s because they’ve studied the game and recognize when to commit chips and when to fold. Just because they earn money and avoid long-term losses doesn’t mean they aren’t gambling like any other fish. They simply choose when to gamble to make it profitable.

ps: Why has this thread turned into some bible-bashers preaching?

ps: Why did this thread turn into a bunch of Bible-bashers preaching?

You should've seen what I deleted lol.

You should've seen what I removed lol.

Oh wow what did you remove?!? 😛

I'm curious now 😀

Poker isn’t gambling, it’s investing.

Historically, Christian doctrine also held that investing violated Christian principles. It was labeled usury.

The rational response isn’t to give up investing or gambling, but rather to stop organizing your life around the rituals of a few Bronze Age shepherd tribes.

You should have seen what I deleted lol.

lol. Yeah I'm with darkassissan, very curious now of what you said!

Well, traditional Christian dogma was that investing was against christian beliefs too. It was considered usury.

The logical solution is obviously not to stop investing or to stop gambling, but instead to stop basing your life on the rites of a few tribes of shepperds from the bronze age.

Lol too true.

I also doubt the bible says that gambling is wrong, more likely some guy in rome decided he didn't like it and chose to determine how people should behave according to his own views and not those of God and or Jesus.

I believe God himself took a bit of a gamble when he planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil and warned Adam and Eve not to eat its fruit. 🙂

I feel like it's definitely a gamble; you aren't going to win with bad cards. A good poker player is someone who's very lucky — those who claim it's largely skill are full of it.

**** the Redskins lol

Oh my, what did you delete?!? 😛

I'm curious now 😀

lol. Yeah, I'm with darkassissan — really curious about what you wrote!

It sounded like a full-blown sermon more appropriate for a church than a poker forum (https://www.casino.us/cardschat/) lol.

of course it is, you use money to win money. Can i ask what made you ask this question?

For me gambling is wagering on an uncertain outcome.

In poker a skilled player can be assured of x amount of success over time... a certain outcome or leastways as certain as any outcome in any other aspect of living. Many good players can pinpoint this ROI down to solid accuracy over 100bb's.

Therefore, no it is not gambling if you know what you are doing.

of course it is, you use money to win money. Can i ask what made you ask this question?

So any time you use money to make money, it is gambling?

Well I play bridge tournaments every now and then.

Every time I do so there is a tournament fee of about 6$ for a normal bridge tournament.

I'd like to think of that fee as something equivilant to paying a greenfee at a golf course, or the fee you pay for renting a lane in the bowling alley.

To me there is not much difference between a low buyin poker tournament and a bridge tournament. Both are just hobbies, something you do for fun. And if you happen to win something, then thats just an added bonus.

But Im not religous, and I dont think much about gambling as a sin, or anything bad.

And I do think that poker for real money (https://www.casino.us/poker/) is gambling, it just doesnt always have to be that serious, thats all I mean.

To good players it is hustling, and to bad players it is gambling. I'm not sure what is worse between taking someones money or blowing your money.

Yes poker is gambling and a game of luck. All who play it will burn in hellz for this sin.

PS : Game platforms are also rigged just so you know so better stay away.

All who play it will burn in hellz for this sin.

Believing in god is merely stupid, but believing in hell is deeply perverted form of sadism. I don't know why it is still in any way socially acceptable.

I believe in sky cake myself.

YouTube - Patton Oswalt - Sky Cake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w)

Poker is not gambling (https://www.casino.us/).

Poker is a skill-based game with a dash of luck.

Dusty Schmidt's article in the latest issue of CardPlayer (December 21, 2010) magazine is titled "A Game of Skill, and Therefore a Job--Why playing poker qualifies as a profession". While he doesn't mention the word "gambling", what he has to say below is certainly germane to answering the OP question. I've inserted that word where I feel it pertains to the issue.

To me, defining poker as a game of skill is actually quite simple. To do so, you just need to forget about winning at poker and think for a moment about losing. Is it possible to intentionally lose a poker game? Yes, of course. But is it possible to intentionally lose a game like roulette or craps? No, it's not.

In games of chance [gambling], the participant cannot control the outcome. Whether your intent is to win or lose the lottery, your odds remain the same. The superstitious may disagree, but no matter how many times you pull the handle of a slot machine, your odds remain the same each time you put your coins into the slot.

But in poker, your actions can influence the outcome of a hand. You will absolutely lose if you fold to every hand no matter what cards you hold. If you call bets with a hand that cannot win the pot, you will also lose every time. This is the difference between a game of chance [gambling] and a game of skill.

It's common knowledge among poker players that chance is a factor in any given hand, but over many hands, poker will even things out, with the more expert players making a profit.

Jerry Yang is a Christian, and the manner in which he plays... It's gambling.

if it isn't then what is? dice? roulette (https://www.casino.us/roulette/)?

Dusty Schmidt's article in the latest issue of CardPlayer (December 21, 2010) magazine is titled "A Game of Skill, and Therefore a Job--Why playing poker qualifies as a profession". While he doesn't mention the word "gambling", what he has to say below is certainly germane to answering the OP question. I've inserted that word where I feel it pertains to the issue.

To me, defining poker as a game of skill is actually quite simple. To do so, you just need to forget about winning at poker and think for a moment about losing. Is it possible to intentionally lose a poker game? Yes, of course. But is it possible to intentionally lose a game like roulette or craps? No, it's not.

In games of chance [gambling], the participant cannot control the outcome. Whether your intent is to win or lose the lottery, your odds remain the same. The superstitious may disagree, but no matter how many times you pull the handle of a slot machine, your odds remain the same each time you put your coins into the slot.

But in poker, your actions can influence the outcome of a hand. You will absolutely lose if you fold to every hand no matter what cards you hold. If you call bets with a hand that cannot win the pot, you will also lose every time. This is the difference between a game of chance [gambling] and a game of skill.

It's common knowledge among poker players that chance is a factor in any given hand, but over many hands, poker will even things out, with the more expert players making a profit.

this is insightful

If poker isn't gambling, then what is? Are you playing for money? No offense, but anyone who thinks it isn't gambling is crazy. People who analyze this topic too much are overthinking it. If you're a Christian, don't try to rationalize it just because you want to play. There's no point in making excuses.

I feel like it is definately a gamble, you not going to win on bad cards. A good poker player is someone that is very lucky, the ones that say that there is alot of skill is full of it.

so explain Annette15 winning a 180 man while never once seeing her hole cards?

If only cards mattered then in the end we would all break even.

If you gave a good player and a bad player the exact same cards to play (with all the villains getting the same cards vs each) the better player will win more/ make more $$. Why?

-winning with the worst hand because he can better range the villain and pick bluf spots

-The better player will get more value out of the big hands (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-hands/) than the fish

-The better player will lose less with the marginal ones.

-And if it was a tournament and got near the end game where the money was, te better player would bully the crap out of the villains, while the bad player would fold like a nit until he saw a real hand.

It's gambling for bad players. Long term it's skill for good players.

WV dude got it right early in this thread, dunno why anyone else bothers after he chimes in, he's usually right.

Cliffs: Fish gamble. SHarks play with skill.

Consider this: some people are gambling when they play poker; others (including what would be a majority of active CC members) are not gambling when they play poker.

In the short term, yes — hand-to-hand is gambling because luck influences the result.

Over the long run, I don't think so. Skill becomes the decisive element.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Just my .02, but I believe playing the stock market is definitely gambling. You are investing in the future (wagering) based on the outcome of unknown events (events that will occur that will make or break your stock/investment). There is much more to it than that of course, but still definitely gambling.

😉 .

FYP

The similarities between the stock market and poker are so close that any sane person will suggest it boils down to what tie a person is wearing when in action. Oh wait, few poker players wear ties.........

I do not think it is gambling. Gambling is when you have no control over the outcome such as a horse race. With poker you are a guiding factor on the outcome.

Ok for those who think i am trying to rationalize my poker playing, i am not, i was just curious.

I have read much and have come to the conclusion that games of gambling are those that have nothing to do with changing the out come of the game.

Poker you DO decide what happens in the game. As Lark mentioned if you were to FOLD every hand, you are deffinently not gambling. Rather you are using your skill to enfluence the game. (not a good enfluence for yout the folder 😛 )

Over all i have made my conclustion that Poker in itself is NOT gambling. BC you can always fold a hand and a fold is never a bad decision, bc you are still in the game. 😛 ( talking 2 all my toueny players haha)

Dusty Schmidt's article in the latest issue of CardPlayer (December 21, 2010) magazine is titled "A Game of Skill, and Therefore a Job--Why playing poker qualifies as a profession". While he doesn't mention the word "gambling", what he has to say below is certainly germane to answering the OP question. I've inserted that word where I feel it pertains to the issue.

To me, defining poker as a game of skill is actually quite simple. To do so, you just need to forget about winning at poker and think for a moment about losing. Is it possible to intentionally lose a poker game? Yes, of course. But is it possible to intentionally lose a game like roulette or craps? No, it's not.

In games of chance [gambling], the participant cannot control the outcome. Whether your intent is to win or lose the lottery, your odds remain the same. The superstitious may disagree, but no matter how many times you pull the handle of a slot machine, your odds remain the same each time you put your coins into the slot.

But in poker, your actions can influence the outcome of a hand. You will absolutely lose if you fold to every hand no matter what cards you hold. If you call bets with a hand that cannot win the pot, you will also lose every time. This is the difference between a game of chance [gambling] and a game of skill.

It's common knowledge among poker players that chance is a factor in any given hand, but over many hands, poker will even things out, with the more expert players making a profit.

Whilst this may be true in some context. It's still a gamble. I mean there have been times where I've had enough and just gone all-in with the worse possible hands and had someone call. I hit runner,runner,runner to win the hand. So no it is not possible to know 100% the outcome on weather you are going to win a hand or not. Probability has its part and being massive under dog as we all know and have been sucked out on doesn't mean you can "lose" at poker on purpose.

The only way to know 100% if you can lose at poker is by knowing what the other persons hand is and going all-in knowing no matter what cards come, you have still lost.

Don't allow other people to dictate how you should live, and you'll be far happier. 🙂

Wise words to follow.

The last time I visited a bookstore searching for a poker book I had to check the "gambling" section.

I believe anyone who tells (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-tells/) you that poker isn’t a form of gambling is likely making excuses for themselves and is in denial....:angel:

I suspect God took a bit of a risk when he planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil and warned Adam and Eve not to eat its fruit. 🙂

Nice comparison — but what do you suppose he had in mind when he came up with Pandora's box? 😀

So who are the poker Gods, then?

Which religion does that belong to?

😕

:withstupi

"sigh"

wish I could say "in before the merge" but where can we merge it????

So who are the poker Gods then?

What faith would that be?

😕

:withstupi

It wasn't completely dumb. The thread about the Tree of Knowledge made me think of a compulsory essay I wrote for my college Greek Mythology course a few years back, comparing Genesis with the old Greek tale of Pandora's Box. Go figure.

In the short term, yes. Over the long run, no.

😛 ive come to realize when i post a new thread they get quite full of debating, 🙂 I like it 😀 Good to know i can come up with some decent threads hehehe

Thanks Everyone for all the response's It has given me much insight and has led me to think of poker in many different ways now, (gambling and not gambling) I still think poker in itself is not gambling, (if i can make you fold the best hand 😀 ) If i can play a certain way to make my villains fold... then i msut be doing something right 😉

This thread's title reminded me of a quote from the movie Rounders. "How many times do I need to tell you? It's not gambling for me anymore!"

Well maybe that's not exactly it, but you get the jist of it. I think the pros can attest to this statement, it's not the most stable of incomes but a ton better than risky investments, fun too!

Cliff notes:

Poker is gambling when dakota-xx plays.

Poker is not gambling when Leatherass plays.

Poker is gambling when dakota-xx plays.

Or is that what you WANT us to think?????:santaclau

So of course no one plays perfect poker. So darkassasin might sin regularly by making a mistake, but since it’s a mistake I don’t think God will hold him to it.

darkassasin can also be repeatedly tempted to sin by wanting to chase his hand. That’s hard for darkassasin to manage.

I say if you’re serious about this kind of sin, I just think it’s way too much temptation for anyone.

My personal view is I see how complex the universe is but also how well balanced it is. We humans are far from perfect and with the mind God has, I don’t think—if you try to play the way people here are advising, in a non-gambling (https://www.casino.us/) way—that God will hold you strictly to it when it comes time to judge you like your Christian faith says.

Meaning I think you’ll be all right with God if you don’t become obsessed with poker (spending more time on it than with family, etc.), which means you’ll play casually — and that actually forces you into the definition of gambling that CardsChat members are using, where playing a little bit is gambling!!!! Arrrgh, you’re in a tough spot.

That’s just my soul thinking... SORRY DIDN’T MEAN TO QUOTE YOU FLETCHDAD

ps I love your Christian poker name darkassasin hahahaha 😉

Does your church ever host raffles?

It's definitely gambling. Just like the stock market, lottery, bingo, and similar games — if you don't have complete control over the outcome, it's gambling.

it is gambling for sure. just like the stock market, lottery, bingo, etc. if u dont have total contol of a situation, its gambling.

No that is completely untrue.

Lottery and bingo, you have absolutely no control of the outcome. Whereas in poker, you have information and skill which gives you advantage over other players.

You can make people call with unfavourable odds (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/), you can call with favourable odds. You can make different plays based on reads on players which will be profitable.

Comparing Lottery and poker is retarded, and quite offensive tbh.

If you're genuinely curious, I came across a really interesting blog about the topic. I'm not a Christian, so I won't judge you either way… lol

http://www.mypalal.com/poker/christianPoker.cfm

Poker is a fairly pure form of gambling, yes.

Gambling is wagering something of value against an uncertain outcome.

Word to the wise: If you are not gambling when playing poker as defined above, you are losing.

If you're really interested I found this very interesting blog on the subject.. I'm not a Christian.. so I will not judge you either way.. lol

http://www.mypalal.com/poker/christianPoker.cfm

very very insightful article. I can at least say im not using my college fund 2 play poker lol. I think i have some re thinking to do about my poker game (https://www.casino.us/poker/games/).

Thanks for this. was a nice read

A slightly different opinion here (https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/poker-martial-art-188955/). I feel poker is most of all a discipline. Of course, if you don't treat it as such... it may be called also gambling.

This is something i ponder. I am a christain, and many people view playing poker for money is against christian believeifs. Because poker is considered gambling. Now, I have done a little bit of research to see what gambling really is and came across this blog.

I enjoyed reading it and Can agree with most of what is being said, however it does not answer strait "yes" or "no" if poker is gambling or not, but gives some good info about what gambling is.

Check it out and i would like to hear some feed back 😉

http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-poker-gambling

and from what the article was saying, many things can be considered gambling 🙂

I often think about this question too. I did a little research about Christianity and gambling. From what I learned it seems if your motives are driven from a love of money and are looking to get rich quick you're on the wrong path. Check out these passages there are some good poker lessons in here.

Proverbs 13:11 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Proverbs%2013.11) says, “Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow.” Lesson: poker is one long session.

First Timothy 6:10 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/First%20Timothy%206.10) says, “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” Examples of time I've been "eager" when I'm on tilt and want to get better right after what I believe is a bad beat. Never turns out good. The lesson: stick to your game, keep your confidence and press forward.

Luke 9:62But Jesus said to him, "(A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%209:62&version=NASB#cen-NASB-25364A))No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Lesson: the past is over (doesn't exist) learn from it, move forward. Don't let the past get you too down or too high. Play one hand at a time and when it's over it's over.

It doesn't matter if it's gambling or not. What matters is why and how you play.

I believe it can be both, depending on how you play and how you spend.

My wife (who has never played poker) tells (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-tells/) me cash games are gambling and tournaments are not.

Poker isn’t merely gambling. You must play with patience and maintain discipline.

I'm going to play SNGs for a few hours.

Of course poker is gambling...If you have a flush draw and you decide to shove all in against someone with trips your gambling.

If your risking your money in anything to get more its gambling.

Your buying into a game to try to gain more money.

It is like buying stocks.

I often think about this question too. I did a little research about Christianity and gambling. From what I learned it seems if your motives are driven from a love of money and are looking to get rich quick you're on the wrong path. Check out these passages there are some good poker lessons in here.

Proverbs 13:11 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Proverbs%2013.11) says, “Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow.” Lesson: poker is one long session.

First Timothy 6:10 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/First%20Timothy%206.10) says, “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” Examples of time I've been "eager" when I'm on tilt and want to get better right after what I believe is a bad beat. Never turns out good. The lesson: stick to your game, keep your confidence and press forward.

Luke 9:62But Jesus said to him, "(A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%209:62&version=NASB#cen-NASB-25364A))No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Lesson: the past is over (doesn't exist) learn from it, move forward. Don't let the past get you too down or too high. Play one hand at a time and when it's over it's over.

It doesn't matter if it's gambling or not. What matters is why and how you play.

Liked this very much, was extreamly awesome! Getting my God and Poker on at the same time 🙂 doesnt get any beter than this!

Gambling maybe....luck..not on your life! Not if the same people keep finishing in the top 5% of the field!

It's funny to profess troubles of conscience in playing poker when you have the ID "dark assasin".

A baltic country (Estonia, I suppose) legalized tournament poker as a sport, while keeping cash games in gambling category. Maybe because in a tournament everyone starts with the same number of chips, so there's equal opportunity in the beginning, while in cash games there's the pocket cash disparity. 🙂

A baltic country (Estonia, I suppose) legalized tournament poker as a sport, while keeping cash games in gambling category.

That's pretty ridiculous. Luck plays a much bigger role in tournament poker than it does in cash games, so it should be the other way round.

It's mostly about equality of chances... how would you regulate cash games in a sporting sense? Make X hours a session, with equal stacks at first, and see who's ahead at the end?

That's fairly absurd. Luck influences tournament poker far more than cash games, so the reverse would make more sense.

Do you lurk in the thread and wait after posting this, or do you step away and return later? 😉

100% poker is gambling.

The act of gambling is defined as wagering money on the outcome of an uncertain event in a game of change.

When playing poker

1. money is wagered

2. unless you hold the absolute nuts the outcome is uncertain.

3. poker is a game of chance.

The skill centres around wagering money when you are either ahead or unlikely to be called, but since you do not know the outcome of that wager until after its made, poker is a gambling activity.

A lot of people try and distance themselves from this because they simply do not like the word "gambling".

it is gambling for sure. just like the stock market, lottery, bingo, etc. if u dont have total contol of a situation, its gambling.

The stock market isnt gambling as money is not wagered in a game of chance.

Gambling refers to a very specific activity.

100% poker is gambling.

The act of gambling is defined as wagering money on the outcome of an uncertain event in a game of change.

When playing poker

1. money is wagered

2. unless you hold the absolute nuts the outcome is uncertain.

3. poker is a game of chance.

The skill centres around wagering money when you are either ahead or unlikely to be called, but since you do not know the outcome of that wager until after its made, poker is a gambling activity.

A lot of people try and distance themselves from this because they simply do not like the word "gambling".

This is a reasonable definition for gambling. But brings up the question, what would you call wagering on coin flips (actual coin flips) where you can never have the nuts, and everyone knows coin flips are gonna be a 50-50 proposition?😕😕 Coin flips also assume we would have complete information with the exception of the outcome. Only a dishonest coin would affect the long term outcome.

But in a coin flip situation, you pretty much have to be in every flip, whereas in poker, or horse racing or Stock Market investing, you use the available information, (all of it hopefully) to make decisions. So 3 years ago gold would have been a knowledge based investment (the market is crashing, real estate is dumping, jobs being lost, etc.), and shown great returns over the last 3 years, whereas today it might be at it's peak (might not be still) and is less of a knowledge based decision and more of a hunch based thing compared to 3 years ago.

This is a reasonable definition of gambling. But it raises the question: what would you call betting on actual coin flips where you can never hold the nuts, and everyone knows coin flips are going to be a 50-50 proposition?😕😕

You would call putting money on coin flips... gambling.

Roulette (https://www.casino.us/roulette/) where the probability of black appearing is slightly under 50:50 .. also gambling.

A skilled gambler would recognise that as the odds are slightly against him in a game of roulette that he can never win in the long run. Therefore a skilled gambler might avoid roulette. Nevertheless it’s also an example of gambling. Just as a skilled poker player would avoid calling an all-in without the correct odds when he reckons he’s behind.

Poker is a fairly pure form of gambling, yes.

Gambling is wagering something of value against an uncertain outcome.

Word to the wise: If you are not gambling when playing poker as defined above, you are losing.

I agree completely with your definition, ( maybe I'm paranoid?) but my signature is not a definition.

It's just a silly expression about winning at poker that has nothing to do with logic.

I don't think you can let religion tell you how to live your life... Life is a Gamble, is that a sin? every decision you make in life is a gamble...

I don't view poker as a gamble, since there is skill involved in the game... I view it like I view chess... just a game of strategy with some marginal gamble involved.

The stock market isnt gambling as money is not wagered in a game of chance.

Gambling refers to a very specific activity.

I disagree. Future events being unknowable, the stock market depends on attempts by forces unknown to control segments of the economy and the profitability of the market reflects those attempts. But we can not know all the forces involved. So investing in the stock market tends to be a mass zero sum game where some profit because others lose.

Related are the commodities markets (soy bean futures for example) where on the one hand more info is available (drought, floods, etc.) but still requires information about unknowable future events, as well as the political (often international) landscape again in the projected future.

On a grand scale poker is so much more controllable as an investment than either the stock or commodity markets. But fundamentally they deal with the same forces, poker having many fewer unknowable futures, but still beyond the scope of complete understanding by any living human.

So I argue here that we, and the world, need to see that the capitalist model that developed the legit markets also applies to poker. The big difference being that in poker the results are known nearly immediately (hand by hand, or session by session), whereas in the investment world those 'bets' play out for longer periods of time, often years. Day traders would represent the hand by hand model, and investment funds might represent the session by session model.

I disagree. Future events being unknowable, the stock market depends on attempts by forces unknown to control segments of the economy and the profitability of the market reflects those attempts. But we can not know all the forces involved. So investing in the stock market tends to be a mass zero sum game where some profit because others lose.

Related are the commodities markets (soy bean futures for example) where on the one hand more info is available (drought, floods, etc.) but still requires information about unknowable future events, as well as the political (often international) landscape again in the projected future.

On a grand scale poker is so much more controllable as an investment than either the stock or commodity markets. But fundamentally they deal with the same forces, poker having many fewer unknowable futures, but still beyond the scope of complete understanding by any living human.

So I argue here that we, and the world, need to see that the capitalist model that developed the legit markets also applies to poker. The big difference being that in poker the results are known nearly immediately (hand by hand, or session by session), whereas in the investment world those 'bets' don't play out for longer periods of time, often years. Day traders would represent the hand by hand model, and investment funds might represent the session by session model.

It dosent matter if you disagree.

The definition of gambling (https://www.casino.us/) requires a bet to be made.

Money is not "bet" when shares are "purchased"

This isnt something thats really open to debate.

I dunno Stu... I think you can easily argue that stock market investing pretty much fits the definition of 'GAMBLE'

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=gamble

Look at Princeton's example in their definition.

Noun

S: (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=gamble&i=0&h=0000#c) 👎 gamble (money that is risked for possible monetary gain)

S: (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=gamble&i=1&h=0000#c) 👎 gamble (a risky act or venture)

Verb

S: (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=gamble&i=2&h=0000#c) (v) gamble, chance (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=chance), risk (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=risk), hazard (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=hazard), take chances (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=take+chances), adventure (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=adventure), run a risk (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=run+a+risk), take a chance (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=take+a+chance) (take a risk in the hope of a favorable outcome) "When you buy these stocks you are gambling"

S: (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=gamble&i=3&h=0000#c) (v) gamble (play games for money)

I dunno Stu... I think you can easily argue that stock market investing pretty much fits the definition of 'GAMBLE'

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=gamble

Look at Princeton's example in their definition.

Noun

S: (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=gamble&i=0&h=0000#c) 👎 gamble (money that is risked for possible monetary gain)

S: (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=gamble&i=1&h=0000#c) 👎 gamble (a risky act or venture)

Verb

S: (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=gamble&i=2&h=0000#c) (v) gamble, chance (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=chance), risk (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=risk), hazard (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=hazard), take chances (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=take+chances), adventure (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=adventure), run a risk (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=run+a+risk), take a chance (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=take+a+chance) (take a risk in the hope of a favorable outcome) "When you buy these stocks you are gambling"

S: (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=gamble&i=3&h=0000#c) (v) gamble (play games for money)

I'm English.

I speak English

I would only accept a definition from the Oxford dictionary. Its the standard English dictionary.

I'm also unsubscribing from the thread.

Words carry specific meanings. While English contains overlap, a quick check in an online thesaurus shows that although many words are similar, few share the exact meaning needed to replace one with another.

Words have precise meanings for one reason and one reason only: they are the tool humans use to communicate with others. Communication is how a thought is transferred from one person to another. Using words incorrectly only results in your thoughts being misinterpreted by others.

That is why language is standardised. Deviating from that standard leads to a breakdown in communication.

I don't see the point in continuing a discussion that ultimately seeks to impede human communication.

The stock market isn't gambling as money isn't being wagered in a game of chance.

Gambling denotes a quite specific activity.

that isn't the only definition of gamble, even in the oxford dictionary, "take risky action in the hope of a desired result."

We're drifting off topic and causing confusion.

The thread isn't really about stocks and shares — it's about poker, and the question was whether poker is a form of gambling.

That's why I'm unsubscribing: I already know what the next 20 posts will say and the 10 that follow.

Some people dislike the term "gamble" and will seize any opportunity to distance themselves from being called a "gambler." Stocks and shares are introduced merely as a way to muddy the waters when there isn't any real ambiguity; poker is a form of gambling.

“Taking a risky action in the hope of achieving a desired result” seems clear and straightforward to me.

Like I mentioned earlier, in my view, in the short run poker is gambling, but over the long run it isn’t.

We are going off topic and creating confusion.

The discussion is not actually about stocks and shares its about poker and the question was is poker a form of gambling.

This is why I'm unsubscribing.. because I know now what will be written in the next 20 posts and the 10 after that and so on.

There are some people who dislike the word gamble and will look for any way possible to distance themselves from the word "gambler". Stocks and shares are thrown in there simply as a means of adding confusion where in reality there is no confusion; poker is a from of gambling.

What confusion? You buy stock, with the hope that you can profit from it, but there is a risk of loss. That is a gamble. Poker however, there are situations where you can know that, no matter what cards your opponent has you will either profit or lose in the long run.

Like I mentioned earlier, in my view, in the short term poker is gambling, but over the long haul it isn’t gambling.

The same applies to sports betting when approached correctly. (The crucial point isn’t choosing winners but identifying situations where the bookmaker has set the odds (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/) incorrectly).

Only casino table games possess a mathematically built-in house edge.

Any form of gambling that lacks an inherent house edge becomes a game of skill in the long run, provided people are prepared to study how the system operates and how to obtain an advantage.

Poker isn’t the sole gambling pursuit where skill can be used.

What confusion? You buy stock, with the hope that you can profit from it, but there is a risk of loss. That is a gamble. Poker however, there are situations where you can know that, no matter what cards your opponent has you will either profit or lose in the long run.

You physically own the stock.

Up or down you own it.

Money in the pot is awarded to the winner of the hand but you do not own the pot at any point prior to wining the hand.

Thats the key difference.

The closest business comes to gambling is not stocks and shares but instead insurance.

You physically own the stock.

Up or down you own it.

Money in the pot is awarded to the winner of the hand but you do not own the pot at any point prior to wining the hand.

Thats the key difference.

The closest business comes to gambling is not stocks and shares but instead insurance.

The fact that you physically own the stock doesn't change the fact that it is a gamble. The company that you own stock in can go bankrupt and your stock value goes to zero.

It's the same with sports betting when approached correctly. (The key isn't picking winners; it's identifying situations where the bookmaker has mispriced the odds).

Only casino table games have a mathematically embedded house edge.

All forms of gambling that lack a built-in house edge turn into skill games over the long run, provided people are prepared to sit down and learn how the system operates and how to secure an advantage.

Poker isn't the only gambling activity where skill can be applied.

We agree on that.

Owning a stock doesn't alter the fact that it's still a gamble. The company you hold shares in could go bankrupt and those shares could become worthless.

Therefore walking must also be considered gambling.

While walking, you expose yourself to risks like being struck by a bus, attacked by terrorists, falling down a mine shaft, and so on.

Usually people walk for some benefit — health, financial, mental, etc.

So although one can argue walking is a type of gambling, most people recognize that the term "gambling" doesn't really fit.

Breathing is a form of gambling too.

You do it so as to preserve life.

You risk inhaling poisonous gas.

The list goes on and on......

Walking must therefore be gambling.

Whilst engaging in the activity of walking you risk being hit by a bus / shot by terrorists / falling down a mine shaft etc.

Generally speaking the only reason people walk anywhere is for some kind of gain, health, financial, mental etc.

So whilst walking can be argued to be a from of gambling, pretty much everyone knows that the word gambling dosent really fit.

Breathing is also a form of gambling.

You do it so as to gain life.

You risk inhaling gas.

the list goes on and on......

What does this have to do with poker(risking money in hope of profit based on math-backed probability) or stock(risking money in hope of profit based on past trends and future prediction).

You physically own the stock.

Up or down you own it.

Money in the pot is awarded to the winner of the hand but you do not own the pot at any point prior to wining the hand.

Thats the key difference.

The closest business comes to gambling is not stocks and shares but instead insurance.

Gee, I remember buying shares of stock in a company I liked. The value of the shares went up a little. then the value started plummeting. I didn't have stock certificates, but there was an electronic record of my owning it -- is the physical report that I own X number of shares of a stock concrete? Well, it does mean that my money -- real money (https://www.casino.us/poker/) -- was used and in exchange for my real money, I get a report that I am the owners of X shares of X stock. At the end, I still owned the shares of stock, but they had no value. The company went out of business. The money I risked on the stock and on the company and its future was gone. And I had a lot less fun in the interim than I do playing poker. I'd call that a gamble on whether the company in question would do well. It did not, although it was looking good for a bit. I could perhaps have sold my shares, but the price bottomed out so quickly that there was no selling. It was as if I had gone allin on my flopped straight and the river made the other guy's flush. Except that it's unclear if anyone profited in the stock mess. At least in poker, one guy always wins the hand. In stocks, sometimes everyone loses.

I assume, Stu, that you expected some story like this. But, for me, stocks are far more of a gamble than poker. I've lost far more in the stock market than I ever will playing poker. It stopped feeling like "investing" long ago.

How is this different from poker (staking money hoping for profit based on probability) or stocks (putting up cash expecting gains based on past trends and forecasts)?

I'm just noting that if you remove the requirement to stake money, the definition becomes so broad that nearly any activity could be labeled as gambling.

If stocks and shares really were a form of gambling, the US Alcohol, Gambling and Tobacco Commission would presumably have sought to regulate Wall Street. They oversee all forms of gambling; if the stock market could be shown to be gambling, it would fall under their jurisdiction.

Stu, we aren't going to agree on this, so lets agree to disagree, I just have a wider definition of 'gamble' than you, thats not important to our love of this game.

This is why I'm unsubscribing — I can already foresee what will appear in the next 20 posts, then in the following 10 entries, and so forth.

Did it end up the way you expected?

Wow... Let’s all just do a freeroll and then we won’t be gambling anymore; better yet, we’d be free-rolling! 🙂 The prize would be a lovely reward for beating the best 😀 hehehe — this thread is easily the most fun I’ve read 😀

gamble

verb

[no object]

1 play games of chance for money; bet:

he gambles on football

[with object] bet (a sum of money):

they gambled their money on cards

2 take risky action in the hope of a desired result:

he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel

noun

[usually in singular]

1 an act of gambling.

2 a risky action undertaken with the hope of success:

we decided to take a gamble and offer him a place on our staff

Origin:

early 18th century: from obsolete gamel 'play games', or from the verb game

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0325700#m_en_gb0325700

From the first definition, any game that involves at least some element of chance and the wagering of money on the outcome, is gambling. This would include poker, sports betting, bingo, paper rock scissors (for money), even picking/buying-selling stocks.

I think most people consider gambling as the last definition listed- a risky action undertaken with the hope of success. I think it could very easily be argued that a player who demonstrates skill at the game over a large sample can greatly reduce the element of risk/chance sufficiently for this definition to no longer hold for them.

Examples of gambling in poker:

1- Players chasing draws with the wrong odds or regardless of the odds they are getting, whether they understand the odds or not.

2- Players playing above their bankroll (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-bankroll-management/) and/or skill level hoping to win

Examples of poker that aren't really gambling:

1- Players making the appropriate +EV plays in hands (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-hands/)

2- Players playing within their bankroll as to minimize their risk of ruin (going broke)

Another key aspect of this definition of gambling keys in on the word

"hope". Players that are "hoping" to win are gambling. Players who can use their knowledge and skills (mathematical and/or psychology and/or memory and/or experience) to produce consistent results, aren't really gambling.

Reread that last paragraph thinking in terms of stock picking and you'll see that it's virtually the same as poker. If you are good at it, much of the uncertainty/hoping is removed, as is the "gamble" of it. If you aren't good at it, you're basically gambling.

Did it end up the way you expected?

More or less, yes.

Poker is gambling (https://www.casino.us/). Period.

The good news is that with poker, you can control when and how you risk your money. The best approach is to study and refine your play so the odds (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/) move closer to favoring you by consistently choosing the correct actions.

Profitable poker comes from selecting the right decisions about when to act and how much to stake.

Anyone who believes they aren’t gambling when they play poker is fooling themselves.

ETA:

Examples of poker that aren’t really gambling:

1- Players executing the appropriate +EV plays in hands

It’s still gambling. You’re just doing it with improved odds.

The proof is all the occasions you lose even when you were +EV.

Agree with Stu that words have specific meanings. Problem is there is no perfect specificity as to definitions in MOST cases. Concrete definitions can describe simple things like 'circle, ball, flat, wavy, dog, cat (very generic), etc.

Words and combos of words help humans describe concepts. When we start making combination's of words we open ourselves up to interpretations. This can not be avoided. If it were avoidable, the legal system would be perfectly understood by everyone, and we would all know advanced calculus, because each word was absolutely defined. Easy way to describe this interpretation is to ask you to define your first love. Do you think any of us would agree?

The underlying concept of gambling is very close to the concept of investing (risk for gain). While the concept of investing has garnered the cloak of respectability, the concept of gambling has had too many charlatans for too many years and respectability is mostly lacking, but the risk for gain part of it remains.

I believe at its heart the difference between investing and poker (don't see it as gambling) is time. For any individual play, investing or a single poker hand, circumstances beyond our control weigh heavy. A poker hand plays out quickly, whereas a loan (you loan money to someone when buying a stock) takes time to bear fruit or perish.

In investments, the equivalent to a poker starting hands (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-hands/) chart is 'diversify'.

It has always been easier for the government to track investment money than poker money, and somewhere along the line the government got the opportunity to regulate, and tax investment money. So while the topic of this thread is specific "Is poker gambling" the concepts involved are so much bigger. And the implications even larger.

All that said there is another aspect of investments that can not be compared to poker, but still can be compared to gambling. Other than new ways to gamble, there is little widespread opportunity for innovation with gambling. With investments however there is that slight opportunity to innovate, or improve something that can benefit all humanity. Some of those opportunities pan out, most don't.

I prefer the phrase "cloak of respectability" the most in that context...

I like "cloak of respectability" most in there...

.....at last...a little (very little indeed) respect.......😉

It's still gambling. You're just doing it with better odds.

Proof of this is all the times you lose when you are +EV.

gamble

1 play games of chance for money; bet:

2 take risky action in the hope of a desired result:

Under definition #1 you are correct, it is gambling.

Under definition #2 (the most accurate definition of gambling, IMO) poker isn't necessarily gambling.

Let's consider some basic examples.

1. I offer to let you roll one 6-sided die ONCE at a cost of $1. If you roll a 6, I give you $5, any other number you win nothing. This is slightly -EV. As for risk, is losing $1 or winning $5 really "risky"? Maybe to some it is.

Verdict: Probably gambling

2. I offer to let you roll one 6-sided die ONCE at a cost of $1. If you roll a 6, I give you $7, any other number you win nothing. This is slightly +EV. As for risk, you are again losing $1 or winning $7. Is it "risky"? 5 out of 6 times you are still losing the same $1, and only winning $2 more than the previous example if you win.

Verdict: Probably still gambling

3. I offer to let you roll one 6-sided die ONCE at a cost of $1000. Whether I let you roll with a positive or negative EV, I'd still say it's gambling either way now, since you are just allowed to do it ONCE and now the stakes are high, increasing the risk.

Verdict: Definitely gambling

4. Now let's say I will let you roll the dice as many times as you want in the +EV scenario, and you have enough of a bankroll (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-bankroll-management/) to ride out any downswings/losing streaks. Is this gambling? If you roll the dice enough times in the +EV game that you are properly bankrolled for, there is no risk. You aren't "hoping" to win. You will mathematically/statistically come out a winner.

Notice that we need certain conditions to be sure to win:

• not limited to a single or small number of tries/games

• an appropriate bankroll to ensure we are able to reach our expected +EV

Verdict: Likely not gambling

Some additional notes-

True, there will never be 0 risk in practice. Even being "properly" bankrolled means there is still a tiny chance of going broke. Just the same as each time you cross the street there is a tiny chance that you'll be hit by a car. But crossing the street isn't considered "risky" because that risk is so small it isn't even considered a risk.

what happens if we roll a 7 sided die?

Now let's say I will let you roll the dice as many times as you want in the +EV scenario, and you have enough of a bankroll to ride out any downswings/losing streaks. Is this gambling? If you roll the dice enough times in the +EV game that you are properly bankrolled for, there is no risk. You aren't "hoping" to win. You will mathematically/statistically come out a winner.

Can it be gambling if the outcome is a statistical certainty?

Good question. I guess not.

Hard to compare this analogy to poker, though, because rolling the dice you KNOW you are +EV.

In a poker hand, you can make a educated guess based on your expertise

and your reads , but it's still just a guess that you are +EV.

When was the last time someone offered to play a game with you in which the outcome was a statistical certainty heavily tilted in your favor?

When was the last time that someone to offered to play a game with you where the outcome is a statistical certainty stacked in your favour?

IMO it's really not that different that playing against people who call down with bottom pair or chase draws regardless of the odds. Bet enough that they are getting the wrong odds, watch them call, collect the EV in the long run!

Hard to compare this analogy to poker, though, because rolling the dice you KNOW you are +EV.

In a poker hand, you can make a educated guess based on your expertise

and your reads , but it's still just a guess that you are +EV.

True poker is like a soft science compared to my example. But when you see players playing way too loose and badly, it's a pretty safe assumption that if you play even remotely well, you will be +EV against them.

I like the earlier post (forgot who posted it) where they explained that poker is still risky/gambling to the public, while investments with high risk aren't considered gambling. A good investment banker could look at a company's stats, or a portfolio, or whatever, and make changes/buys/sells based on their expertise and previous experience. This would give them a very likely +EV situation.

I don't see poker as being too different from this. There's plenty of things that allow you to take the gamble out of poker. If you're at a tougher cash game table where you aren't sure if you have an edge/+EV, you can always get up and change tables. If your table is playing in a certain manner that might reduce your edge, there may be ways to change your play/image/etc to swing it back into the positive.

I cant even add anything to this quite complex discusion now 🙁 you guys all make me feel like a dummy 🙁 🙁 🙁

I really don't believe poker is a gamble. People think the money involved makes it gambling. The money is not used as a purchase or wager of chance. People must realize that money act as an item to play the game with. For Christians who think otherwise, are you saying that Bingo night at churches is more or less gambling than poker? In Bingo you wait and hope that your number and letter is called. Without money this (Bingo) is still a gamble because you have no control over which letter or number will be called, and if you're lucky enough to win you receive a prize. In poker the money is used just like chips. It's not like the game strategy is different. In poker if I miss the flop, my hand does not automatically forfeit. If I have the "skill" to bluff (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/bluffing/) successfully then I will win. You never know what the other players have and the outcome is not only base on a one and only scenario. If poker meant that everyone calls and all 5 cards must be dealt and everyone must call then that would be a gamble. The option to bluff or fold at separates gambling from skill. Even if some people hit the best hand they lose if another player uses their skills to win!

A lot of people consider poker a kind of sport :S

It’s hard to define that way — poker also involves many other elements like attitude, patience, strategy, and so on.

On a lighter note, every time I see this thread I want to answer it;

Not the way I play!😉

If you're a good player who believes they have an edge over the field they are playing... & typically over a long period (MTT play here), you've shown that you have a decent return on investment.... then is this 'gambling'? I don't look at it as being gambling.

Compare it to something like a financial investor.... let's say 'stock market'. For me, investing in the stock market would likely be a gamble because I have very little experience with it (although for sure I would do my homework prior to, in hopes of gaining a significant edge). BUT for others (my boss for example) would I imply it's a gamble for him? Not likely as he kicks back in his multi-million dollar home, wondering which new sportscar to buy himself for Christmas, what new apt. buildings to pick up in the new year, etc.

I look at poker similiarly to this.

gamble

verb

[no object]

1 play games of chance for money; bet:

he gambles on football

[with object] bet (a sum of money):

they gambled their money on cards

2 take risky action in the hope of a desired result:

he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel

noun

[usually in singular]

1 an act of gambling.

2 a risky action undertaken with the hope of success:

we decided to take a gamble and offer him a place on our staff

Origin:

early 18th century: from obsolete gamel 'play games', or from the verb game

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0325700#m_en_gb0325700

From the first definition, any game that involves at least some element of chance and the wagering of money on the outcome, is gambling. This would include poker, sports betting, bingo, paper rock scissors (for money), even picking/buying-selling stocks.

I think most people consider gambling as the last definition listed- a risky action undertaken with the hope of success. I think it could very easily be argued that a player who demonstrates skill at the game over a large sample can greatly reduce the element of risk/chance sufficiently for this definition to no longer hold for them.

Examples of gambling in poker:

1- Players chasing draws with the wrong odds or regardless of the odds they are getting, whether they understand the odds or not.

2- Players playing above their bankroll and/or skill level hoping to win

Examples of poker that aren't really gambling:

1- Players making the appropriate +EV plays in hands

2- Players playing within their bankroll as to minimize their risk of ruin (going broke)

Another key aspect of this definition of gambling keys in on the word

"hope". Players that are "hoping" to win are gambling. Players who can use their knowledge and skills (mathematical and/or psychology and/or memory and/or experience) to produce consistent results, aren't really gambling.

Reread that last paragraph thinking in terms of stock picking and you'll see that it's virtually the same as poker. If you are good at it, much of the uncertainty/hoping is removed, as is the "gamble" of it. If you aren't good at it, you're basically gambling.

Pretty much what he said. Especially this > If you are good at it, much of the uncertainty/hoping is removed, as is the "gamble" of it. If you aren't good at it, you're basically gambling

When certain friends ask me (when they call me on the telephone & can hear the background noises of chips, etc.), "Oh, are you gambling again right now?" I always reply, "Nope, just making a few investments at the moment. Pretty sure some of the others on these tables are 'gambling' though."

When certain friends ask me (when they call me on the telephone & can hear the background noises of chips, etc.), "Oh, are you gambling again right now?" I always reply, "Nope, just making a few investments at the moment. Pretty sure some of the others on these tables are 'gambling' though."

They probably assume this means you are in denial.

Was thinking that I might have a conversation with my pastor about this.

Note: Non-religious people tune out for a minute.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only real time Jesus got upset about the gambling was when they did it in the sanctuary. So he was ticked, cause that's HIS HOUSE! I'd be ticked too if I came home and people were playing poker in my house without permission.

Other than that, I believe it falls under the same category as ...say drinking. Think it says in the Bible (if you believe what it says) that doing things to excess that is the issue. Drink, but don't drink to excess. I would assume that excess is where it starts to negatively impact your life. You would have to decide that for yourself.

But given that everyone who plays should be playing EITHER for entertainment or to make money, there shouldn't be an issue if you're a christian.

Just my $0.02.

"Nope, just making a few investments at the moment.

Short term, high risk investments for the win!

But since everyone who plays is supposed to be doing so either for fun or to earn money, there shouldn’t be a problem if you’re a Christian.

By that logic, prostitution would also be acceptable for Christians... 😀

Ahhhhh no.

By this standard, prostitution would be acceptable for Christians... 😀

The tricky aspect of this argument is that the Bible has nothing at explicit to say about gambling. It condemns greed and a lack of charity. Bans on gambling have come from cultural readings and have minimal to no direct scriptural basis.

Regarding prostitution, the scriptures are fairly explicit. But we have trimmed and applied those passages to our preferences as quite freely. More than one prostitute figures prominently in the Old Testament: God tells a prophet to wed one (Hosea and Gomer), and another is a heroine (Rahab). Jesus associated with many of them, forgiving and loving them.

1. Poker is gambling.

2. I find no reason to call this inherently "unchristian."

3. If you are addicted, irresponsible, and so on, then you face an underlying problem tied to gambling and should remove or address the root issue.

4. If you feel gambling could be a sin for you, read Rom 14 and decide for yourself what action to take.

I, as a Christian, have no objection to it as so long as it remains balanced.

The genuinely tricky aspect of this line of thought is that the Bible has nothing at substantial to say about gambling. It warns against greed and a lack of charity. Bans on gambling have come from cultural interpretation and have very little scriptural basis.

On prostitution the book is quite explicit. But we have trimmed and pasted those passages to fit our wishes as quite neatly. More than one prostitute plays a significant role in the Old Testament: God tells a prophet to marry one (Hosea and Gomer), and another becomes a heroine (Rahab). And Jesus associated with many of them, offering forgiveness and love.

1. Poker is gambling.

2. I see no reason this, by itself, is “unchristian.”

3. If you are addicted or irresponsible, then you have a deeper problem underlying the gambling and should remove it — work on the root cause.

4. If you feel convinced that gambling might be sinful for you, read Romans 14 and decide for yourself what to do.

I, as a Christian, have no objection to it as provided as it is kept in balance.

amen 🙂:dito: :dito: :dito: :knuddel:

Another point... One of the primary verses cited to argue that gambling is sinful is, in fact, a succinct 14 phrase encapsulation of sound bankroll management.

Proverbs 13:11

Wealth gained quickly will diminish, but whoever accumulates little by little will increase it.

Prohibitions on gambling have been cultural interpretations and have little to no scriptural foundations.

The distinction between cultural interpretations and scripture is a very arbitrary one. The definition of what is considered scripture and what is not - i.e. the biblical canon - is itself a highly cultural thing and varies widely between christian creeds. And obviously jewish and islamic canons differ even more, even though they do have significant overlap.

The distinction between cultural interpretations and scripture is a very arbitrary one. The definition of what is considered scripture and what is not - i.e. the biblical canon - is itself a highly cultural thing and varies widely between christian creeds. And obviously jewish and islamic canons differ even more, even though they do have significant overlap.

OP's question was gambling (https://www.casino.us/) re: Christianity. Canon doesn't vary all that much, there are few disagreements as to canon among the major Chistrian streams with the apocrypha being the main disagreement between protestants and catholic and orthodox.

That said the point remains valid even considering the apocrypha.

It is modern protestant (mostly evangelical) Christians who look to the bible (sans apocrypha in this case) as a final authority. I am ASSuming OP is of this stream from his questions.

Personally I do not hold the Bible as the final authority, but God himself. But this is another thread.

Personally I do not hold the Bible as the final authority, but God himself.

Same here, assuming that by God himself you're referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May his noodly apendage forever touch you.

Websters dictionary describes gamble as

a : to play a game for money (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gamble#) or property b : to bet on an uncertain outcome

2

: to stake something on a contingency : take a chance

According to this, if I invest in stocks, thats gambling, if I invest in real estate thats gambling and as a matter of fact, EVERY BUSINESS falls into this definition. What the church refers to as a gambler is someone who is willing to risk money or monetary valuable objects compulsevely where if things dont go the right was can really hurt someone financially and therefore hurting your personal life.

So the real question is, "how are you managing your bankroll (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-bankroll-management/), and how do you play poker" if you are overdrawing your bank account to play poker, or if you cash your check and use all the money to play poker before paying your bills, or if you play poker against the odds (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/) and try to get lucky all the time but keep losing... then yes ITS A SIN. But if you manage your bankroll well and can make a profit... consistently (key word) then you are running your own legitimate business, but yes it is a gamble and it always will just like any other business is.

In conclusion, its just about how you see poker. Do you see it as a business? or as a means to escape your troubles without reagard of the stakes at risk?

On the other hand, isn't the Christian God supposed to be all-knowing and omnipotent? That would eliminate the concept of chance entirely, since every event would ultimately be God's will. If chance doesn't exist, then you are never truly gambling but simply entrusting your fate to the hands (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-hands/) of God.

Clearly the preceding is utter nonsense, but if you opt to believe in nonsense from the outset by being Christian, why not fully embrace it and be content with it?

No one has ever argued that opening a small business is a gamble because acumen of the proprietor is the key factor and dominates any contribution that chance elements might play.

That's a very naive view of business. Pretty sure chance is actually the key factor in the survival of most small businesses.

For the better part of our history poker had been viewed by the courts as gambling on the grounds that luck was the predominant element.

That's a very naive view of poker. Pretty sure chance is actually the least important factor in the long term success of poker players.

yes any time you risk anything on chance it is gambling and almost no matter what you have in your hand when you risk money on 2 cards you are gambling that those 2 cards made the best 5 card hand plain and simple no questions or religins can change that..

I think that if you understand your villain, you'll win in the long term. Say your villain is a calling station and you hit a strong hand. So what do we do? Value, value, value! Bet every street and try to get it all in on the river, or thin-value to induce the donk to call 😀

Is this gambling? I know you're going to call anything I bet, so am I gambling when I bet my set knowing you'll call me? HMMMM?!?!? lol

😛

I can't believe how many people insist poker ISN'T gambling and claim it's just skill — you're either a bit daft or completely clueless about how odds and betting work. Every poker hand revolves around odds and wagers; anyone with a brain cell should realize you're betting on an outcome no matter how much knowledge you have of the game.

It is a skill game, yes. However as I've said it IS gambling and if you can't grasp the basics of what a gamble is then you're probably getting everything else wrong in poker!

As I've mentioned before: the most skilled player in the world who, let's say, won every hand (indeed not possible, but making a point) he played is still gambling on each hand.

Odds/outcome/wager = gamble. Simple as even if you're Phil Ivey. So, on a logical and very basic level, I don't understand how some of you can't seem to let that sink in..

Well life is a gamble so why not poker 2.

I can't belive how many people think poker ISNT gambling and say its just skill, you really are a bit daft or completely clueless on how odds/betting works.

Or you are a bit daft yourself? People just take a larger perspective.

A Christian who truly believes everything is God's plan does not believe there is such a thing as chance or an uncertain outcome since the outcome is always certain in God's mind. And since chance does not exist, poker can't possibly be defined as gambling.

A scientist who understands quantum theory knows that no event can ever be predicted with 100% percent accuracy so everything everywhere is always subject to chance to some extent and therefore there's no reason to single out poker as every single monetary transaction can be defined is gambling.

In between those two extremes, there's a continuum of opinions about how much skill and how much luck affect the games' outcome. The lottery is more gambling than poker. Investing in a US government bond is less gambling than poker (if USD is your currency). The ranking of poker and investing in the stock market on the gambling scale is highly debatable.

Can we leave the bible and other archaic, superstitious, mythical beliefs out of the poker forum (https://www.casino.us/cardschat/) please. Educate yourself and get free from that malevolent, cruel,phychopathic,bullying, abrahamic god.

Grow up.

gl at the tables

Can we leave the bible and other archaic, superstitious, mythical beliefs out of the poker forum please.

Meh, you actually want your fishes to have superstitious, mythical beliefs, while you base your play on a proper understanding of reality. That's how you make money from playing them.

Not sure what is best. Should we educate the fishes or profit from them?

BTW, I have enormous respect for the people behind http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/ . They clearly chose the second option... 😀

Your church doesn't object to you gambling, as long as you win and give at least 10% you'll go straight to heaven.

It's the gamblers who lose that they take issue with. That eats into the bottom line.

Or something along those lines.

Or you are a bit daft yourself? People just take a larger perspective.

A Christian who truly believes everything is God's plan does not believe there is such a thing as chance or an uncertain outcome since the outcome is always certain in God's mind. And since chance does not exist, poker can't possibly be defined as gambling.

A scientist who understands quantum theory knows that no event can ever be predicted with 100% percent accuracy so everything everywhere is always subject to chance to some extent and therefore there's no reason to single out poker as every single monetary transaction can be defined is gambling.

In between those two extremes, there's a continuum of opinions about how much skill and how much luck affect the games' outcome. The lottery is more gambling than poker. Investing in a US government bond is less gambling than poker (if USD is your currency). The ranking of poker and investing in the stock market on the gambling scale is highly debatable.

How am I daft? lol. I mean lets be honest...what is daft about answering a question correctly for someone, sod the larger perspective. It's all just "ifs" "maybes" or lets be honest "nots" but we won't get into peoples delusional beliefs. I'm like the others, are just giving him a straight answer which is a FACT and done with.

I/We're stating facts, what on earth has other peoples beliefs got to do with it?. The OP question was "is poker gambling" The answer is Yes, poker IS gambling. No need for someone to go on about book stating what's right and what is wrong. I could just state my own beliefs on any matter, still no one is interested in all honestly. People want an answer to their question, so people should just answer with a fact and not dribble on about some crap said in a book. No offense intended but if I wanted to read about some fictional character who "created" this world, I would do so and not expect it on a thread about gambling..

Fact is, poker is gambling that is 100% true. How anyone can argue it, I don't know..it's common basic knowledge.

what on earth has other peoples beliefs got to do with it?. The OP question was "is poker gambling" The answer is Yes, poker IS gambling.

I disagree. OP explicitly states that his question is asked within his belief system, so beliefs do have a lot to do with this thread.

And as I showed earlier, the answer to the "Is poker gambling ?" question can vary widely depending on your belief system: from "No, nothing is gambling, everything is god's will", to "Yes, but everything is gambling in a world of quantum mechanics", to "Sort of, but no more and no less than investing in the stock market".

it's ordinary everyday knowledge.

There was an era when "the earth is flat and rests at the center of the universe" was ordinary everyday knowledge. That didn't make it correct.

It should be pointed out here that most of the folks who are arguing here are not of the mind that poker is NOT gambling. We understand there is gamble in the game.

What we are arguing is that gambling, per se, should not be considered an evil, unless we include all forms of gambling, and that is a conceptual thing.

The original post was put in such a way that it looked as much like someone trolling for ammunition as it did anything else.

The notion of morals, and morality, begs the subtle difference between Ethics and Morals. So similar in so many ways, morals suggests a 'faith based' ethical system. And your faith based morals will be different from his/her faith based morals, sometimes profoundly different. Ethics will deal with the same issues for the most part, but tend to be more rational, practical approaches to those dilemma, often with the same solutions. When talking about the negative aspects of the Morals/Ethics issues, Immorality sounds so much more evil than Unethical. It is that brainwashing that irks many of us. 😕

So, for example;

The Ultimate/Absolute poker issues a few years ago, where insiders had access to a program that showed them the hole cards of each player in a hand, is no different from a stock scam where a brokerage house conspires to make a stock look good in order to create a buzz and jack the price per share up so then can dump their substantial holdings in a worthless company on an unsuspecting public. Both scams create a lot of money for the perpetrator. Both are unethical, but the OP here would seem to want to consider one, the poker instance, as immoral, while not ascribing the same to the stock swindle. In both cases the insiders were out to con honest folk out of their money.

Same here, assuming that by God himself you're referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May his noodly apendage forever touch you.

My goodness Belgo. I believe in your own curmudgeonly Scrooge like way you have just blessed me.

And I do love Spaghetti.

poker is gambling until you find out what's going on

If someone asking me,poker should be next olimpic discipline

Your church doesn't mind if you gamble, as long as you win and give at least 10% you'll go straight to heaven.

It's losing gamblers that they have a problem with. That cuts into the bottom line.

Or something like that.

It is easy and fun to mock the deeply held beliefs of another man if first you reduce them to a cartoon like cliche. But why stop there when you could also call his children ugly and retarded, and his wife fat.

You're missing value!

I disagree. OP explicitly states that his question is asked within his belief system, so beliefs do have a lot to do with this thread.

And as I showed earlier, the answer to the "Is poker gambling ?" question can vary widely depending on your belief system: from "No, nothing is gambling, everything is god's will", to "Yes, but everything is gambling in a world of quantum mechanics", to "Sort of, but no more and no less than investing in the stock market".

Asked within his belief system? The question is, "is poker gambling" regardless of what sense or how or what beliefs you have, the answer is just yes poker IS gambling. It still doesn't change anything in anyway to what the question is.

If it is against his religion then he should stop poker now as no matter whichever way someone looks at it or tries to twist it, the fact still stands. Poker is gambling.

Poker and gambling CANNOT vary because of beliefs. Beliefs are beliefs and nothing is fact based within them where as my answer is FACT BASED. It's like me saying "poker is pure luck as it's my belief" Of course that would be my belief which I would be entitled too, however this is false as we know the fact that it ISN'T luck.

I don't understand why he would even ask the question based on "beliefs" as I have already stated, it doesn't matter what is believed or thought of. You can't get away from facts and the fact is, poker IS gambling.

There was a time where "the earth is flat and rests at the center of the universe" was common basic knowledge. It didn't make it right.

The difference is, this wasn't proven hence the reason Christopher went out of his way to prove it. This was the belief at the time and people just caught on like, for example these bible preachers. Nothing is proven, all just hear say people just like to believe in something outside of this world. No facts. Probably unrealistic to really think it is true anyway.. Same with our "universe" and our lack of knowledge for other living things out there. We "think" it's possible just like the world was thought to be flat but like that, once life out there is proven it will become fact and so on. (If that is ever the case) I believe a hell of a lot more that the is life out there as opposed to some clown sat on a cloud but that's my opinion.

Common basic knowledge like many things in life are facts. If you gamble, if you're playing poker or betting on horses or football etcetc then the being a gambler it is basic knowledge what odds/probs/wagering all equate to one fact: GAMBLING

EDIT: In fact, thinking about it all. If it wasn't gambling, then why do we put money into a pot pre flop then fold post flop if needs be? We are just wasting out money. We gambled putting money in the pot we must sometimes later fold, so why do this? And yes for someone who might say "you can't predict the cards that come out next" This is true, so what the hell do you do? Quit playing? You can't control the cards so you're putting money in on what you think will be the best hand pre flop and while it may be the best hand, post flop it may well change to the worse hand. Thus meaning we gambled and lost our money...next time we might gamble and win money..

Who cares?

If OP is a Christian, he ought to be aware of the Christian Church’s position on gambling.

If he’s uncertain, he should ask a priest rather than an online poker forum.

Common basic knowledge like many things in life are facts. If you gamble, if you're playing poker or betting on horses or football etcetc then the being a gambler it is basic knowledge what odds/probs/wagering all equate to one fact: GAMBLING

Only when you define gambling in a way that allows both chance and skill/intent to affect the results. And as soon as you do that any monetary transaction becomes gambling since results are always at some level uncertain. And that voids the word gambling of its meaning.

OP says he is a Christian, so he should be aware of the Christian Churches' position on gambling.

If he's uncertain, he should speak with a priest rather than ask an online poker forum.

Ridiculous. Priests are the worst people to consult about religion. Their role is to persuade you to accept their bronze-age myth, and their income depends on enough people following their specific creed to support the church. Why would you trust them for guidance?

Do you seriously think a car salesman is the ideal person to ask for unbiased car comparisons?

😱

Only when you define gambling in a way that allows both chance and skill/intent to affect the results. And as soon as you do that any monetary transaction becomes gambling since results are always at some level uncertain. And that voids the word gambling of its meaning.

It still is a gamble though, regardless of ones skill level, novice, medicore,advanced.

I don't even understand what you're trying to get at. Obviously we have mixed views but I really can't see how anyone can ever say poker isn't gambling (https://www.casino.us/) when that is exactly the nature of the game, making money thus gambling to make money regardless of how you trap or outplay someone.

As soon as you pick up your hole cards, you have a percentage chance of winning the hand, so we either put money in the pot or don't. As soon as you do you have gambled on your hand winning you money. You don't put money in the pot with the intention of folding do you, as that would be stupid.. You put money in the pot to gamble and hope your hand wins.

odds (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/)/wager=gamble?

Nonsense. Priests are the last persons you should consult about religion. Their job is to make you believe their bronze age myth and their salary directly depends on enough people following their particular creed to finance their church. Why on earth would you want to rely on them for advice?

Do you really believe a car salesman is the best person to ask for comparative car advice?

😱

Well as OP is a Christian, he has already bought the car, now he just needs some advise as to its upkeep as such that advice should come from someone who has experience of cars.

Who cares?

OP says he's a Christian, so he should be familiar with the Christian Church's position on gambling.

If he's uncertain he ought to speak with a priest instead of asking an online poker forum.

I agree he should have consulted them. Still, a book full of non–fact-based claims really shouldn't pronounce on whether poker is gambling. If it insists poker isn’t gambling, that just demonstrates what the book is — complete tosh.

Anyway... complete waste of time, really. It just irritates me and I don't know why I got involved. If someone wants to believe it's not a gamble, fine — lol — and I thought I was the one lacking knowledge about gambling.

He should have consulted them, I agree. The point is, a book full of items that aren't fact-based really shouldn't offer an opinion on whether poker is gambling. If they claimed it wasn't gambling, well... that just reveals what this so-called bible is — complete nonsense.

All the more reason to consult an expert.

I don't even understand what you're trying to get at. Obviously we have mixed views but I really can't see how anyone can ever say poker isn't gambling when that is exactly the nature of the game

Probably because I love poker but I hate gambling ?

You know, when you go down to the bakery and buy a piece of bread, there is a non zero chance that the bread you just bought will turn into thin air through random quantum fluctuation. It's incredibly tiny, but it's non zero. Even without going to this extreme, anytime you buy something, there is a really good chance that its value will fluctuate over time. It's exactly the same when you buy the right to see another street or the right to see a showdown at a poker table.

You can't define gambling in Manichean terms, because then either everything is gambling or nothing is gambling. Gambling can only be define as a continuum that would start from 0-gamble, the physically impossible state where the result of your action would be entirely predictable, to 1-gamble, the state where the result of your action is absolutely random. As soon as you do that, poker gets to be pretty low on the gamble scale provided you play a non trivial volume.

Well as OP is a Christian, he has already bought the car, now he just needs some advise as to its upkeep as such that advice should come from someone who has experience of cars.

Meh, I think there's something immoral in seeing someone who just got crooked by his car dealer, yet advising him to go back to the same crook to buy extra options and a maintenance contract.

Belgo, you're making some good points, but I'd advise you to go easy on the believers.

A) This isn't a does God exhist thread.

B) I don't think you could win that thread.

Probably because I love poker but I hate gambling ?

You know, when you go down to the bakery and buy a piece of bread, there is a non zero chance that the bread you just bought will turn into thin air through random quantum fluctuation. It's incredibly tiny, but it's non zero. Even without going to this extreme, anytime you buy something, there is a really good chance that its value will fluctuate over time. It's exactly the same when you buy the right to see another street or the right to see a showdown at a poker table.

You can't define gambling in Manichean terms, because then either everything is gambling or nothing is gambling. Gambling can only be define as a continuum that would start from 0-gamble, the physically impossible state where the result of your action would be entirely predictable, to 1-gamble, the state where the result of your action is absolutely random. As soon as you do that, poker gets to be pretty low on the gamble scale provided you play a non trivial volume.

Christ man lol. How can you compare buying a loaf of bread to playing poker? Your right though, there is a very tiny chance of it turning into thin air. However, you aren't wagering money on that, that would just be unfortunate if it happened.

I'm not disputing that there is skill invoved in poker and probarly more skill than luck as there are many winning players who can turn a profit. This doesn't mean they aren't gambling though.

"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period."

Now that is the definition of gambling. Now where in there doesn't poker apply to that nature?

Just because you like poker but don't like to think of gambling as in poker doesn't mean it isn't. You're far of from that and you're just kidding yourself if you truly believe this buddy.

Also, when someone hits their one outer on the river to bust your stack when you put them all-in on the turn and they didn't have the odds to call, yet they call it and hit. Now, it was 44/1 or whatever to hit his card, this sucks but we have all had it happen before. This mother of all people who put his money in on one card coming out on the river took a big gamble but hit it. Now, when this happens, everyone will say "donk" "omg, how lucky" Whilst these are true, he GAMBLED on that happening and luckily got paid off. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but where wasn't the gamble on the turn? This is EXACTLY the same with every betting stage in a poker game (https://www.casino.us/poker/games/). From pre flop to the river...I can't see how you can say it's not gamble!

Belgo, you're making some good points, but I'd advise you to go easy on the believers.

A) This isn't a does God exhist thread.

B) I don't think you could win that thread.

I try to go easy on the believers. I see no point in going easy on their beliefs.

A) No, but this is a "religion is evil" thread as OP is obviously the victim of his church's prejudice against our lovely game.

B) I don't think anyone could win that thread for either side, but I for sure would have fun trying.

Who cares?

OP says he is a Christian, then he should know the Christian Churches stance on gambling.

If he is unsure then he should consult a priest not an on-line poker forum.

Hehe.. My fav so far.

/thread (though I'd hate to see the the FSM etc... derail end)

Belgo, you're making some good points, but I'd advise you to go easy on the believers.

A) This isn't a does God exhist thread.

B) I don't think you could win that thread.

Aww, don't spoil it right when it's getting good.

Some threads are better when they are derailed. 😉

B) I don't think anyone could win that thread for either side, but I for sure would have fun trying.

We may disagree on the existence of God.

But we agree fully on the existence of "Point B". 🙂

Poker is controlled gambling. The skill of the players determines the edge. Anytime you hold two cards in a seven card game the outcome is not determinable. (Holdem). You can play in such a way where you have a probability of beating the other players in the long run, but it is always a gamble.

It's gambling, but it's a calculated risk. You weigh risk vs reward and if you reward outweighs the risk like it does for a good player than you take the risk for the reward and come out ahead. There's still always that chance that you could get rivered for a year straight making it gambling

Hmm, ok then Could playing Black jack be considered gambling? Lets say we have 3 guys

1. New to Black jack

2. Knows Basic Strategy

3. IS a Card counter

Now these are our 3 guys. In Black jack the house has a slight Edge on the players that know basic strategy and a huge one on the new player, however the edge is reveresed with the card counter bc he is able to track the cards and knows when to bet more to gain more.

So are all of these individuals still gambling?

(Not trying to steer away from poker, but just curious about this question)

And I love GOD 🙂

Religion on the other hand has not realy helped me in my life. Sooooo I just have faith that God is my Higher power and will provide for me when i need something or he feels the need to provide for me.

ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooo

its really gonna take off now........................

ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooo

its really gonna take off now........................

lol

I read the first few posts and then skipped to the end to see where the conversation had gone...

wow

I'm going to say that poker is 100% gambling. It's primarily a game of chance, but can be influenced by skill.

When you're dealt your hole cards you have no way of knowing whether you'll be holding AA that hand or 72o, but once you see them you can apply skill against other players to reduce the gambling element OR choose better gambles based on your read. That's what makes poker a money-making game.

For the record, they gambled in the Garden of Eden!

OP, you are not going to get an argument here that will overcome the objections of a Christian who is against gambling.

For the most part, the conservative religious objections to gambling have nothing to do with gambling itself. It's about wasting money in a frivolous pursuit. It's about taking advantage of other people. It's about doing something that is not supplying a service or some sort of goods. It's about risking money, time, care on something that is not, to them, worth the time, money or care. The belief is that your life efforts should be focussed on pursuits with intrinsic value -- working at your job, supporting your family, caring for others, giving to your church and to charities.

So it won't matter to a conservative Christian (or follower of many other religions) that poker also incorporates skill into a game that has luck as a part. That's not the real problem they have with it.

I enjoy poker. But trying to convince someone who thinks it's a waste of my time and money means getting down to a discussion about what life should be like and what life should be for and, as such, there is no winner to that discussion. Or, rather, the other side will always think thay "won" the debate.

I enjoy poker. But trying to convince someone who thinks it's a waste of my time and money means getting down to a discussion about what life should be like and what life should be for and, as such, there is no winner to that discussion. Or, rather, the other side will always think thay "won" the debate.

You arent really trying to convince anybody.

If you are a Christian then all you are really trying to do is to find out if it offends your god.

If he dosent like it and you do it; you rot in hell.

Thats the whole point of religious doctrine, it dosent matter how many people agree or disagree on something, the final ruling comes after death.

If you choose to be a Christian then you have to follow all of the rules, you cant just pick and choose the ones that suit you. That is something that dosent sit well with modern society.

If he dosent like it and you do it; you rot in hell.

Thats the whole point of religious doctrine, it dosent matter how many people agree or disagree on something, the final ruling comes after death.

If you choose to be a Christian then you have to follow all of the rules, you cant just pick and choose the ones that suit you. That is something that dosent sit well with modern society.

No, I think there is one where you can go to confession, and say 5000 Hail Mary's and you have been excorsized, or something like that.🙂

No, I believe there's a rite where you can go to confession, recite 5000 a number of Hail Marys, and be considered exorcised, or something like that.🙂

Baptism on your deathbed is probably the most reliable option.

After confession you are required to cease the sin you admitted to; consequently, ordinarily you would confess to the same priest, who would notice that you can't genuinely have repented if you persist in committing the same sin.

I have chosen to cherry pick my religious beliefs. For instance, until someone can prove that some god exists, I maintain my skepticism. However, I occasionally celebrate the Jewish traditional holidays, and most of the Christian holidays but add in the pagan equinoxes, and the seasons. A good wind is a religious experience, as was good sex.....once....

Native peoples use of the indigenous herbs also figures in. As did many of the modern industrial versions of those indigenous herbs.

My custom made religious system serves me very well, and should be backed up by law! Oh, Wait!, It has been codified already! Something about Freedom of Religion, which also should be interpreted as Freedom FROM Religion.

I do believe that investing all my resources and efforts into one particular faith, or organized religion, would have been the biggest gamble of all. What if I was wrong?😱 Well, nothing would change if I was right or wrong, I simply wouldn't be around to worry about it.....

So I worshiped at the temple of fun.😀

A deathbed baptism is your most likely option.

Once you confess, you must cease the action you confessed to; typically you'd confess to the same priest, who would notice you can't have genuinely repented if you keep repeating the same sin.

Thanks for clarifying that.

So, deathbed baptism it is 🙂

In my opinion, Poker is gambling (https://www.casino.us/). You do not know the outcome of things, it is all based on probability and chance. No matter how well you play, the cards my not fall your way. In the long term, it will even out and be profitable for "good" players, but I believe it is still gambling.

Poker is not gambling. Life insurance or the stock market are forms of gambling. In poker you can chose to lose.

You arent really trying to convince anybody.

If you are a Christian then all you are really trying to do is to find out if it offends your god.

If he dosent like it and you do it; you rot in hell.

This is a common but extraordinary misconception, at least in the case of Christianity.

In fact this is about as perfect a summation of the exact opposite of of Christian core belief as one could come up with in as few words.

Simple as that even if you're phil ivey. < bad example imo... almost 'daft' really. Phil Ivey = big time gambler!

So logically and very basic I don't understand how some of you can't seem to let it sink in..

I'm prolly daft or maybe more likely I'm just in denial (< lying to myself & don't even know it)

This is a common but extraordinary misconception, at least in the case of Christianity.

In fact this is about as perfect a summation of the exact opposite of of Christian core belief as one could come up with in as few words.

Not really.

He destroyed the world with a flood because mankind displeased him; dont tell us now that it was all a divine hissy fit.

This is a very interesting post.

I was wondering if when I read it, how I define gambling. I feel like the level of gamble is the focus and not so much the game.

Everything has a level of gamble to it. Some, more than others. Short-term poker seems to have a lot of gamble to it, but long-term poker does not. Everyday decisions has a level of gamble to the degree of making the wrong decision when usable decision-making info is lacking). Even when presented with information, many of us see investing in stocks and/or day trading as gambling. It seems as if any activity with ANY level of gamble can conceivably be defined as 'gambling'.

Back to poker. I heard a definition of 'gambling' with respect to poker that was interesting (not necessarily fact though). Ok, Forget about winning, let's focus on losing.

As it was explained, in roulette (https://www.casino.us/roulette/), craps, etc....it is NOT possible to NOT win at least once. If you choose a number or roll dice, eventually you will hit your number (through infinity). It IS possible to lose every time when you play poker. I believe this was only an illustration of the ability to affect an outcome between traditional gambling and games of skill like poker.

It's not necessarily the defining explanation (it's not perfect), but I think it's not too bad.

grunch:

its gambling in the same way that taking a poop is gambling because you don't know what color it will turn out to be

grunch:

it's gambling in the same sense that taking a dump is gambling — you don't know what color it'll end up being

unless you ate spinach or beets for dinner.................

grunching

gambling to a degree but with a more than considerable amount of skill involved

Nut peddling...

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Pooping in the colors of the rainbow (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Pooping%20in%20the%20colors%20of%20the%20rainbow)

gambling or not. My advice: don’t play razz. I hate it :d

hahaha awww I enjoy razz when I'm simply bored and want to play cards for fun.

Is there anywhere I can practice razz using play money? 🙂

Why won't this topic ever end?

Anybody interested in continuing to flog a dead horse? ...oh right, that's exactly what's happening.

On a serious note, gambling can be an addiction, yet many people play poker casually and can easily go without it for long stretches.

Whether poker is gambling depends on who you ask. There are professional players who earn a steady living from the game, players who aim for a modest side income, and then there are the gambling types who obsessively chase losses — those are the ones you'd label gamblers.

I'll come back to beat this horse again when I peek in here at another time. 😉

I guess you could say it could be considered gambling since you don't always have control of the outcome. But what is the difference in buying in to a local golf tournament for $10 and not knowing if your gonna win and buying in to a poker tournament for the same amount. NO difference in my opinon. and also if you were to win the main event for 9 million dollars and helped fund your local church with the money to build a new building i'm sure they wouldn't mind.

Then who are the poker Gods?

What religion is that?

😕

:withstupi

I think they stem from greek mythology.

I'm fairly sure about the mythology part anyway.

Pot odds (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/) is best explained with a cion toss. Let's see if you can fallow.

There is a 50% win chance. If a player gets 2:1 odds and plays 100 times how much will that player win on an average? OK, let's say the player is unlucky and loses 60%. At a dallor each toss, this player loses $60, but wins $80. This is clearly not gambling.

If a weak player sits with sharks, that is gambling. Rocks have a long chance to win against me. I'll see that they are only waiting for strong hands (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-hands/) and I'll take every pot the rocks do not want by bertting into them, and let the rocks have every pot they want. Since all players miss more flops than they hit, I'll just bleed the rocks dry. Loose and crazy player, I'll just play tight and trap them. There is a way to beat every poker style, hence change gears or playing style often.

Besides, every year it's the same five guys making it to the final table of the world series of poker (https://www.casino.us/poker/tournaments/wsop/). Are they the luckest guys in the world? Winning the main event twice in a row, is like winning the lottery twice in a row, if it was luck. However, there are players (plural) who have won the wsop (https://www.casino.us/poker/tournaments/wsop/) main event twice in a row - two years back to back. Does that sound like luck? Only a fool thinks poker is a game of chance. Tell that to your self rigious friends.

Poker is a game of skill, and only the losers call it chance. Fact, there are profession players. How can that be if it's gambling.

I think < really? I'm shocked!.

Pretty sure it is for this guy.... lol (but how can it be... it's 'all rigged' anyways!)

dakota-xx said:

Poker is gambling when dakota-xx plays. Or is that what you WANT us to think?????:santaclau

That's a really funny way to put it, dakota-xx! It definitely highlights how subjective the definition of "gambling" can feel, especially when we're talking about a game like poker where skill plays such a huge role. I think the core of the debate often comes down to intent and the potential for financial loss, which can vary wildly from person to person. It's interesting to consider how even when playing with a strategy, the inherent randomness of the cards can still feel like a gamble to some.

https://apkfreecine.com/

In poker I believe much relies on skill, while luck also plays a role, since the ultimate outcome is never certain.

Is spades or hearts gambling ? No poker is not gambling . Now if you play for money it's definetly gambling. Now if you are a christian don't play for money because you have to be deceptive and tell lie's to be successful at the game.

With an infinite sample size, absolutely not — the real-world value must match the expected value (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/odds/expected-value/) . It's pure mathematics. If an infinite sample size is considered, so-called luck or chance ceases to exist)

This is something i ponder. I am a christain, and many people view playing poker for money is against christian believeifs. Because poker is considered gambling. Now, I have done a little bit of research to see what gambling really is and came across this blog.

I enjoyed reading it and Can agree with most of what is being said, however it does not answer strait "yes" or "no" if poker is gambling or not, but gives some good info about what gambling is.

Check it out and i would like to hear some feed back 😉

http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-poker-gambling

and from what the article was saying, many things can be considered gambling 🙂

The short answer is yes. The long answer is that there can be an element of skill depending on the game and the stakes. No limit hold 'em or no limit anything has a larger element of luck.

From a psychological standpoint, poker is a gambling activity and it can definitely become addictive and derail your life, although skill does play a role.

It depends on you and how you play. There are games that rely more on luck than skill—for example, fast spins—while you can also play limit hold’em and some monster stack tournaments where you can depend on your play and experience.

Yes, you bet money for more money. Its a catch 22

This is something i ponder. I am a christain, and many people view playing poker for money is against christian believeifs. Because poker is considered gambling. Now, I have done a little bit of research to see what gambling really is and came across this blog.

I enjoyed reading it and Can agree with most of what is being said, however it does not answer strait "yes" or "no" if poker is gambling or not, but gives some good info about what gambling is.

Check it out and i would like to hear some feed back 😉

http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-poker-gambling

and from what the article was saying, many things can be considered gambling 🙂

Yes

But a different type of gambling (https://www.casino.us/), some things are only better understood from the inside

No — it's a sport.

I believe poker is certainly a form of gambling, yet it also relies heavily on skill. Chance can determine single hands (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-hands/) or even short sessions, but across the long run your choices, discipline and bankroll (https://www.casino.us/poker/strategy/poker-bankroll-management/) management have a far greater impact. That distinction is what sets poker apart from games driven almost entirely by luck.

Poker combines mathematics with player skill!

I think the article makes a good point: poker involves both skill and luck, and the fact that money is at risk doesn’t automatically make it equivalent to playing roulette (https://www.casino.us/roulette/). Skill lets you influence your long-term results, but you can never eliminate chance completely. Still, I think poker for money can reasonably be called gambling, even if it’s a skill-based form of it. From a Christian perspective, I’d also look beyond the label and consider whether the way you play involves greed, dishonesty, addiction or neglecting responsibilities. Different Christians interpret this differently, so I wouldn’t claim there’s one universal answer. For me, the distinction is between playing strategically and responsibly versus letting the desire to win money control your life. The article itself reaches a similarly nuanced conclusion.

In the short term, poker is a game of chance, but I don't believe that's the case in the long run; if you study and have a solid strategy, it’s no longer about luck. The skill you develop through perseverance will ensure you always win, provided you play at the right level.

Poker has been officially recognised as a mind sport...so the thinking on poker as ppposed to other casino games has evolved.

Poker Gains Global Recognition as a Mind Sport (https://www.pokernews.com/news/2024/11/poker-officially-recognized-as-a-mind-sport-by-imsa-47356.htm)

Poker is officially recognized as a Mind Sport by the International Mind Sports Association

www.pokernews.com

É algo que me faz refletir. Sou cristão e muitas pessoas consideram que jogar pôquer por dinheiro vai contra os princípios cristãos, pois o pôquer é visto como jogo de azar. Fiz uma pequena pesquisa para entender melhor o que realmente são os jogos de azar e encontrei este blog.

Gostei da leitura e concordo com a maior parte do que foi dito. No entanto, o texto não responde diretamente "sim" ou "não" se o pôquer é ou não um jogo de azar, mas fornece algumas boas informações sobre o que é jogo de azar.

Dê uma olhada e gostaria de receber seu feedback.😉

http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-poker-gambling

E pelo que o artigo dizia, muitas coisas podem ser consideradas jogos de azar.🙂

If it were a game of chance, we wouldn't see players like Negreanu, Yuri and so many others winning so many tournaments, or are they the luckiest in the world lol

What is luck and how is it quantified...

We speak about luck as though its a tangiable thing when mostly we use it to fill the gaps in things that seem like there is a pattern to them...

As several others have pointed out, if you only play one or two hands, it’s gambling since chance has a larger influence.

Over a longer period, though, it’s a skill-based game—luck still factors in, but evens out with time.

To be honest, I've always considered poker as some kind of sport. Each player chooses their own level of thrill. It's possible to play poker with minimal financial risk. 🙂

To me, poker is a mix of chance, tactics, strategy, psychology, and the skill to prevail over luck across the long run. After all, luck plays a large role in this game.