424 replies
This makes Black Friday look like a children’s birthday party. There’s no chance this passes right? It would mark the end of poker and possibly Las Vegas. Can’t see it happening.
Source (it’s all over X): https://x.com/barthanson/status/19401018... (https://x.com/barthanson/status/1940101875791274406?s=46)
Bart is wrong. 90% of losses would be deductible, up to 100% of gambling winnings. Still very bad. Winning and break even players are the ones being effected. Big losers can still offset all of their income.
by dappadan777 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031008#post59031008)
This makes Black Friday look like a children’s birthday party. There’s no chance this passes right? It would mark the end of poker and possibly Las Vegas. Can’t see it happening. Source (it’s all over X): https://x.com/barthanson/status/19401018... (https://x.com/barthanson/status/1940101875791274406?s=46)... See full post
The only way it doesn't pass if there are casinos or DFS sites that have enough lobbying pull with the right conservatives in the House to get the language pulled before they finalize the bill. I suppose this is some dumb way to make the math work on the tax cuts for the richest, by finding lots of things like this that can be estimated to increase taxes by some bean counter.
by dappadan777 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031008#post59031008)
This makes Black Friday look like a children’s birthday party. There’s no chance this passes right? It would mark the end of poker and possibly Las Vegas. Can’t see it happening.
Had no idea this was in the bill. Still probably doesn’t make the top 20 on the list of terrible provisions it includes. But it is almost certain to pass; I don’t know why you would think otherwise.
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Phil Galfond (https://twitter.com/PhilGalfond)@PhilGalfond (https://twitter.com/PhilGalfond)· Follow (https://x.com/intent/follow?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1940198538493010316%7Ctwgr%5E70a033e34a47bcfe7e46208d9f2cc3f2e2d52a23%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC&screen_name=PhilGalfond)
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You could pay more in tax than you won.
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Yeah it wasn’t lost on me that everything else didn’t cause any concern but this set off many people I know to finally say one word against trump
"No chance this passes" You clearly haven't been paying much attention to politics. The current GOP has zero spine, this is Trump's party, they are loyal to him. Even if some of them express "concern" or "skepticism" for this bill, they will tow the MAGA line. There's even a republican senator telling the house to vote no on a bill she passed lol. This will be a massive shock to low-income households, especially those who are enrolled to Medicaid. I guess the only silver lining is that this will backfire on the GOP tremendously. Also, yeah professional gamblers are easily screwed here.. this probably will end careers with small edges I mean not much you can do at this point.
So that would kill tournament poker. What about cash games - any thoughts?
Is there even a precedent for only a fraction of a total of something qualifying for deduction? I’ve seen caps but I’ve never seen anything where only a portion of something qualified in taxes except home offices but that’s because that’s considered to be the total space is being used for business. Seems illogical either losses are qualifiable expenses or they’re not. This is obviously terrible for gamblers and poker players especially due to the volume vs return. If you taxed businesses 10% of revenue almost all would be bankrupt.
"Senate Version of Big, Beautiful Bill Is Bigly Ugly Towards Gambling Posted on July 1, 2025 by Russ
The extension to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) is now in the Senate as the “Big, Beautiful Bill.” The Senate version will likely receive a final vote today (and pass); however, it is quite different in certain areas from the House bill (that earlier passed that chamber). And it is really ugly (or to use one of President Trump’s phrases, bigly ugly) towards gambling.
The Senate version would permanently:
Limit gambling losses to 90% of gambling winnings; and For professional gamblers, the total of losses and business expenses could not exceed 90% of gambling winnings.
Consider Joe, an amateur gambler who comes to Las Vegas once a year. He breaks exactly even, with $100,000 of gambling winnings (all on W-2Gs) and $100,000 of gambling losses. If he doesn’t keep a session log he’s going to owe tax on $10,000 of income.
Or consider Larry, a professional gambler, with $500,000 of gambling winnings on the poker circuit, but $440,000 of losses and $50,000 of ordinary and necessary business expenses; he’ll have to pay tax on $50,000 of income rather than his $10,000 of net income.
I do need to point out that these provisions are not in the House version (the House version simply extends the current TCJA limitations on business expenses causing a loss for professional gamblers). This is one of many areas where the two versions are not the same and will need to be ironed out (likely in a conference committee).
There are two inescapable conclusions if the Senate version becomes law. First, keeping a gambling log will be essential: If Joe had $100,000 of wins and $100,000 losses in the same session he would have $0 of gambling winnings. Second, this would be another big negative towards gambling and would definitely hurt tourism in areas like Nevada." The above quote was taken from a post in a thread started by Mason Malmuth about how good Trump's 2nd term wil be for poker! (L.O.L.) https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/285/p... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/285/politics-society/trump-economy-poker-1844318/)
by Bellezza m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031194#post59031194)
So that would kill tournament poker. What about cash games - any thoughts?
i mean you can just not pay taxes. I don't know how well casinos track but it would be very hard for them to know!
by Bellezza m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031194#post59031194)
So that would kill tournament poker. What about cash games - any thoughts?
Yea sounds incredibly bad for tourney poker, would basically be impossible to be a pro unless you already know you can crush but a lot of recs might abandon those for cash games so you might not be able to crush anymore Really bad for poker overall but could see some increase in cash game action everywhere. Seems bad for casinos overall/jackpot games. Probably lots of slot machines will be removed and more table games added
by MoViN.tArGeT m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031208#post59031208)
i mean you can just not pay taxes. I don't know how well casinos track but it would be very hard for them to know!
If you get a payout of a certain amount in a tourney the casino files something, same with everytime you hit a jackpot on slots over $1200 I think I doubt any recreational players who only play cash games are currently filing W2G forms so seems like it won't affect cash poker/pit games
by MoViN.tArGeT m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031208#post59031208)
i mean you can just not pay taxes. I don't know how well casinos track but it would be very hard for them to know!
I would assume people would do this if they're ok with the risk of failing a potential tax audit. Seeing as the IRS has been gutted since Trump took office, it may be a worthwhile strategy 😀
by LucidDream m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031211#post59031211)
If you get a payout of a certain amount in a tourney the casino files something, same with everytime you hit a jackpot on slots over $1200 I think I doubt any recreational players who only play cash games are currently filing W2G forms so seems like it won't affect cash poker/pit games
ya I know tournaments are dunzo but im sure cash game players would simply stop filing taxes if they even do. rip poker streams for sure tho
by daxile m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031216#post59031216)
I would assume people would do this if they're ok with the risk of failing a potential tax audit. Seeing as the IRS has been gutted since Trump took office, it may be a worthwhile strategy 😀
have you met live poker players? they are the most disgusting human beings
by MoViN.tArGeT m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031218#post59031218)
ya I know tournaments are dunzo but im sure cash game players would simply stop filing taxes if they even do. rip poker streams for sure tho
Filing taxes for cash game pros is way different than tourneys, this really doesn't affect cash games in any way. I'd be willing to bet that number of recreational players that file taxes for poker that play exclusively cash games is very very close to 0%. Most recs are losing in any given year so the only reason they would file to begin with is bc they hit a few tourney scores big enough the casino files on them and they have to offset those winnings with their losses
This would be much more damaging to DFS than casino poker It would pretty much wipe out any legal online gaming because they have reporting requirements
by coordi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031246#post59031246)
This would be much more damaging to DFS than casino poker It would pretty much wipe out any legal online gaming because they have reporting requirements
DFS players are screwed yes. Online sportsbooks are fine as they don't report to the IRS.
by Bellezza m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031194#post59031194)
So that would kill tournament poker. What about cash games - any thoughts?
Cash game crushers will be ok, but face a significant tax increase (I ballpark my increase at about 20%). Smaller winners may get crushed by it. It depends on both winrate and variance. Higher variance players get hit harder, and smaller winners get squeezed and may not be able to afford the squeeze. In tourneys, I think this kills the high roller circuit (or forces a bunch of Americans to expatriate and all the events to be overseas). I think it probably kills a lot of the circuit grinders who have high travel expenses. Anyone who lives in a Congressional district with casinos should call their representative ASAP (they could vote on this tomorrow), even a Democrat may be able to get this removed by working with Republicans who also have casinos in their districts. Anyone who lives in a district with a Republican representative should call their rep regardless. Your script can be something like: "Hi, my name is _______ and I am a constituent of Congressman/woman ______________. My zip code is ________________. I am calling because the Big Beautiful Bill amends Internal Revenue Code Section 165(d) in a way that could kill the gambling/poker/dfs (whatever you want) industry by overtaxing winners and even taxing losers by limiting their deductions to 90% instead of the full amount. Please do everything possible to get this section removed, as it will kill poker/gambling/dfs careers from professional players to dealers and casino employees." You can find your Congressman's info here: https://www.house.gov/representatives/fi... (https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative) I also plan on calling Congresswoman Dina Titus (Las Vegas Strip is in her district - Office # 702-220-9823), Congresswoman Susie Lee (Spring Valley - Office # 702-963-9336), and Congressman Steven Horsford (North Vegas - Office # 702-963-9360), and saying: "Hi, my name is ________ and I have a comment for the Congressman/woman. I am a professional poker player. While I don't reside in your district, I travel to Las Vegas for two to three months a year most years for the World Series of Poker in the summer and the WPT World Championship in December at the Wynn. I am calling because the Big Beautiful Bill amends Internal Revenue Code Section 165(d) in a way that will kill the tournament poker industry by overtaxing winners and even taxing some losing players by limiting deductions on losses to 90% instead of the full amount. As a professional player who spends several thousand dollars a year on accommodations and meals in your district, I believe this will harm casinos, hotels, rental properties, restaurants, and other local businesses in your community and I wanted to make sure you were aware and urge you to do everything possible to get this section removed." Unfortunately they're all Democrats, so they have less sway on this. Anyone who travels regularly to play poker in an area with a red representative should call them and use a similar script. Anyone who lives in a red area that also has casinos/poker rooms, you are the ones who have the most power to try to get someone's attention to get this removed.
As this is a massive threat to the poker community and to many livelihoods, could a mod please change the title of the thread to something like: Professional Poker Could be Killed by Tax Increase in Big Beautiful Bill, WTF, Call Your Representatives!!!
On the list of awful things in this bill I gotta admit this is about #37 for me on list of importance (I'm not a mod in NVG)
by coordi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031263#post59031263)
On the list of awful things in this bill I gotta admit this is about #37 for me on list of importance (I'm not a mod in NVG)
I'm a professional and even so it's not #1 to me either, but it's the only thing I think me making a call about could actually make a difference. Given that this is a poker community, a lot of people here have their careers threatened and could save them if enough people make the calls.
Anyone know why Draftkings stock didn't react to this news at all? You would think this is devastating bill for the company. Opened up a short position yesterday post market but not much to show for so far. I guess the market doesn't believe that this gambling section passes the way it is or the market is just slow to react which I doubt. Obviously hoping this disaster doesn't pass.
by Bellezza m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031194#post59031194)
So that would kill tournament poker. What about cash games - any thoughts?
Nah, Tournament poker will be just fine. I can guaranty that 2026 WSOP will be record breaking then Europeans return
Doesn’t seem like a given that the senate bill gets through the house.
It will pass.
by mh1216 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031035#post59031035)
Bart is wrong. 90% of losses would be deductible, up to 100% of gambling winnings. Still very bad. Winning and break even players are the ones being effected. Big losers can still offset all of their income.
You sure about this?
The bill is passing. This is kind of like UIGEA where everyone thinks is stupid but that’s the point. Puritans control the government and they despise everyone. Elections have consequences
The Leopards are hungry for faces
By far the worst thing this orange buffoon has ever done. Impeachment, now!
RIP !!! Senate voted 51-50 in favor of the ****ing bill & I don't see how HOUSE wont pass this either . The End came to soon to early
What chicken **** mod deleted my comment?
by WH-Caesars m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031206#post59031206)
[I]"Senate Version of Big, Beautiful Bill Is Bigly Ugly Towards Gambling Posted on July 1, 2025 by Russ Consider Joe, an amateur gambler who comes to Las Vegas once a year. He breaks exactly even, with $100,000 of gambling winnings (all on W-2Gs) and $100,000 of gambling losses. If he doesn’t keep a session log he’s going to owe tax on $10,000 of income. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/285/p... (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/285/politics-society/trump-economy-poker-1844318/)
This part is confusing to me. If Joe “doesn’t keep a session log”, wouldn’t he owe taxes on all of his $100,000 in W2G-reported gambling winnings, because you need to keep a session log in order to deduct gambling losses? And if he -did- keep a session log, he would still owe taxes on $10k because that is what this new law says. Does the new law change something about the requirement to keep a session log?
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031674#post59031674)
What chicken **** mod deleted my comment?
No politics allowed for this extremely political issue!
fine, I'll just post it again: It's sad that the racist, fascist, sexist dumbasses who populate 2+2 only care about this bill because it's going to affect their bottom line. It wasn't the opening of an American concentration camp, it wasn't that we elected a criminal President, it wasn't that we're ripping health care out of the hands of people who can't afford it, it wasn't that the bill cuts the taxes of billionaire while raising it for the ever-shrinking middle class, it wasn't that gestapo thugs are disappearing both immigrants and American citizens off the streets and that this bill gives 100s of millions of dollars to ICE to increase their terror, no.... None of that mattered until they realized that the face-eating leopard is now going after their face. Well, it's too late. Now what?
Delete THAT, you chickenshit mod. But this time, OWN IT and tell me why. And if you do delete it, I'll just post it again. And again. Until you ban my ass. Because **** you.
by brianr m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031492#post59031492)
Doesn’t seem like a given that the senate bill gets through the house.
It's very, very close to a given.
(https://twitter.com/repdinatitus)
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(https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/1940421608201744573?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1940421608201744573%7Ctwgr%5E2aeb527655e0b7dd18f0e5c8aacf9abcf3c1ef5d%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC%3Fpage%3D1) Buried within the BS Republican Budget bill is a provision that harms poker players and those who gamble by limiting loss deductions. I’m working on a legislative fix that fairly treats gaming losses in the tax code.
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by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031746#post59031746)
fine, I'll just post it again:It's sad that the racist, fascist, sexist dumbasses who populate 2+2 only care about this bill because it's going to affect their bottom line. It wasn't the opening of an American concentration camp, it wasn't that we elected a criminal President, it wasn't that we're ripping health care out of the hands of people who can't afford it, it wasn't tha... See full post
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Dominic, P&S is close to a free for all now. You definitely could air your views there without fear of a ban.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031746#post59031746)
fine, I'll just post it again:It's sad that the racist, fascist, sexist dumbasses who populate 2+2 only care about this bill because it's going to affect their bottom line. It wasn't the opening of an American concentration camp, it wasn't that we elected a criminal President, it wasn't that we're ripping health care out of the hands of people who can't afford it, it wasn't tha... See full post
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by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031786#post59031786)
Dominic, P&S is close to a free for all now. You definitely could air your views there without fear of a ban.
lol not going in there, are you crazy? And I have no fear of a ban.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031809#post59031809)
lol not going in there, are you crazy? And I have no fear of a ban.
I used to mod that forum. I guess that I am crazy!
by parisron m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031798#post59031798)
I wouldn't want to litigate that position with the IRS, but enforcement in this administration is almost certain to be minimal.
Would this change mean that if in 2026 you spent $200k in tourney buy-ins, and won $100k in cash outs, you would still owe taxes despite being a net loser?
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031746#post59031746)
fine, I'll just post it again:It's sad that the racist, fascist, sexist dumbasses who populate 2+2 only care about this bill because it's going to affect their bottom line. It wasn't the opening of an American concentration camp, it wasn't that we elected a criminal President, it wasn't that we're ripping health care out of the hands of people who can't afford it, it wasn't tha... See full post
First time? The govt been doing this crap my entire lifetime regardless of administration. Of course people don't care until it affects them, thousands of years of history have taught us that lesson. All the trampling on rights gets ignored by democrats when it's a Democrat doing the trampling, and same for Republicans. They only care when the other team is doing it. Completely laughable and Trump derangement syndrome even more so. Thinking he's some sort of evil menace when the dudes an actor who just likes attention and ultimately follows orders on the big issues from his masters just like the rest of em.
by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031815#post59031815)
I used to mod that forum. I guess that I am crazy!
lol you are a better man than me
by parisron m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031798#post59031798)
Can someone explain this to me in elementary terms like the idiot I am?
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031157#post59031157)
"I didn't think the face-eating leopard would eat MY face," says all the dumbass, fascist, racist poker players on 2+2 who voted for Trump.Because it wasn't enough to call your Congressmen over ICE kidnappings, people losing their health care, billionaires getting tax breaks while poor people's taxes go UP, a criminal President, a compromised Supreme Court, concentration camps ... See full post
So there are actually sane decent people in here???? You just saved my day buddy
by parisron m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031798#post59031798)
RUSS FOX: I'd love if this were the case, but the plain language of the proposed law says that it replaces IRC Sect 165(d); courts have ruled that Sect 165(d) applies to both amateur and professional gamblers.
I think it’s kinda funny seeing people freak out over this bc they don’t understand that rightwing „christian“ *******s have taken control of the government, using a clearly demented trump to achieve their personal goals You think this is not gonna pass??? ;-))) In Minnesota they just voted to allow Swastikas and other Nazi **** as symbols and signs back in schools, bc they were „offended“ by rainbow flags
by Whiskeyjack1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031860#post59031860)
I think it’s kinda funny seeing people freak out over this bc they don’t understand that rightwing „christian“ *******s have taken control of the government, using a clearly demented trump to achieve their personal goals You think this is not gonna pass??? ;-)))In Minnesota they just voted to allow Swastikas and other Nazi **** as symbols and signs back in schools, bc they were... See full post
Seeing as how this is a poker forum, we are choosing to discuss poker related topics you deranged lunatic.
by apology7 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031866#post59031866)
Seeing as how this is a poker forum, we are choosing to discuss poker related topics you deranged lunatic.
I’m stating facts that have to do with the bill, while bringing more proof why it’s likely to pass. You personally (try to) insult me, clearly showing that I hit a nerve on your side (or on your swastika neck tattoo maybe???)
by Whiskeyjack1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031870#post59031870)
I’m stating facts that have to do with the bill, while bringing more proof why it’s likely to pass. You personally (try to) insult me, clearly showing that I hit a nerve on your side (or on your swastika neck tattoo maybe???)
No, you're not. What you said about Minnesota certainly isn't factual. "Minnesota" didn't vote on anything. One local school board is unfortunately discussing it, and they haven't voted on anything.
by WPNdonk m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031839#post59031839)
First time The govt been doing this crap my entire lifetime regardless of administration. Of course people don't care until it affects them, thousands of years of history have taught us that lesson. All the trampling on rights gets ignored by democrats when it's a Democrat doing the trampling, and same for Republicans. They only care when the other team is doing it. Completely ... See full post
sorry, but "both sides do it" is such a cop out. And total bullshit. Dems aren't perfect, but they aren't actively trying to kill people.
thank you to whoever replaced my first comment. Of course, now I look like a lunatic for posting the same basic stuff twice lol.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031903#post59031903)
thank you to whoever replaced my first comment. Of course, now I look like a lunatic for posting the same basic stuff twice lol.
Does it really matter?
by JustASpectator m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031906#post59031906)
Does it really matter?
no, most people assume I'm a lunatic anyway
by JustASpectator m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031882#post59031882)
No, you're not. What you said about Minnesota certainly isn't factual. "Minnesota" didn't vote on anything. One local school board is unfortunately discussing it, and they haven't voted on anything.
I do like how you worded it… „Unfortunately“ ?!?!? :-)))))) You guys are like the frog in the hot pot, only the water temperature is already beyond boiling
by Whiskeyjack1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031911#post59031911)
I do like how you worded it… „Unfortunately“ ?!?!? :-)))))) You guys are like the frog in the hot pot, only the water temperature is already beyond boiling
Yes, it is unfortunate that a school board is discussing that. Do you think it is a good thing or something?
Spoiler Show
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The only thing I want to see when I hear the phrase, "Big, Beautiful Bill."
by JustASpectator m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031916#post59031916)
Yes, it is unfortunate that a school board is discussing that. Do you think it is a good thing or something?
Do you like to get eaten alive by a tiger? See how stupid it makes you sound when you ask stupid questions? Probably not, I know … but I had to try
by Whiskeyjack1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031959#post59031959)
Do you like to get eaten alive by a tiger? See how stupid it makes you sound when you ask stupid questions? Probably not, I know … but I had to try
No idea what your problem is. Do you not understand the definitions of unfortunate? Unfortunate: regrettable or deplorable. lamentable; sad. So, explain again why me using the word unfortunate in this case bothers you so much?
Just play better.
by OGfromOCC m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031836#post59031836)
Would this change mean that if in 2026 you spent $200k in tourney buy-ins, and won $100k in cash outs, you would still owe taxes despite being a net loser?
No, because 90% of $200k is still more than $100k. But if you have $100k in winning and $100k in losses, you could only deduct 90% of the loss, and still owe tax on the additional $10k.
by JustASpectator m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031967#post59031967)
No idea what your problem is. Do you not understand the definitions of unfortunate? Unfortunate: regrettable or deplorable. lamentable; sad. So, explain again why me using the word unfortunate in this case bothers you so much?
If I really need to explain this to you, you wouldn’t understand the explanation…. So I’m gonna pass
by apology7 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031859#post59031859)
applies to both amateur and professional gamblers.
there is no distinction... the only distinction you should be concerned with is do you itemize, for purposes of deductions, your gambling losses. as someone who gambles and has gains, but uses losses to offset those gains, if I dont have the ability to reduce my losses from 99.9% down to 90% and survive, one has little purpose in gambling. this is a complete 'the sky is falling' non sequitur.
by Whiskeyjack1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031860#post59031860)
I think it’s kinda funny seeing people freak out over this bc they don’t understand that rightwing „christian“ *******s have taken control of the government,
Yes of course, Christians such as AIPAC, Stephen Miller and Miriam Adelson. Can we go back to zero politics in NVG already.
Word is if you include a MAGA hat with your tax return, the IRS will let you net your losses and comp your travel.
by SkyHighStacks m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032058#post59032058)
Yes of course, Christians such as AIPAC, Stephen Miller and Miriam Adelson. Can we go back to zero politics in NVG already.
This displays a distinct ignorance of Christian Zionism
Somebody will have to explain to me how you can discuss a bill (which is done by politicians if I remember correctly) without mentioning politics
I just wrote Vince Fong. He’s our congressional rep(?) in California district 20 outside Bakersfield. This is a straight up scam and more government over reach. Even non gamblers should be ****ing furious about this. Politics to the side the government is killing us D and R. **** them all. Find yours here. www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-... (https://www.twoplustwo.com/www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative) Follow the prompts takes 5 min. Super easy.
by SkyHighStacks m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032058#post59032058)
...Can we go back to zero politics in NVG already.
The poker content trumps the political content. 😮
by daxile m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031186#post59031186)
"No chance this passes"You clearly haven't been paying much attention to politics. The current GOP has zero spine, this is Trump's party, they are loyal to him. Even if some of them express "concern" or "skepticism" for this bill, they will tow the MAGA line. There's even a republican senator telling the house to vote no on a bill she passed lol.This will be a massive shock to ... See full post
You mean the same way that the Democrat party had zero spine when it came to Biden? People need to wake up and realize that both parties are exactly the same. They don't give a **** about you or me. They only care about what they can get from being a politician. Everything that can be said negatively about 1 party can also be said about the other.
by I_AM_EVIL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032116#post59032116)
You mean the same way that the Democrat party had zero spine when it came to Biden? People need to wake up and realize that both parties are exactly the same. They don't give a **** about you or me. They only care about what they can get from being a politician. Everything that can be said negatively about 1 party can also be said about the other.
Thank god someone with brains. Both sides ****ing hate us. They want all we have and they both conspire to steal from us every chance they get. The government is scum. People cheerleading for one side make me absolutely sick.
by coordi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032060#post59032060)
This displays a distinct ignorance of Christian Zionism
lol, lmao even. We're not doing that anymore, the Katz is out of the bag.
by Whiskeyjack1 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032026#post59032026)
If I really need to explain this to you, you wouldn’t understand the explanation…. So I’m gonna pass
Yeah, good call. You were embarrassing yourself pretty harsh here.
Wake UP sheeple, BOTH SIDES
by TheCake m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032124#post59032124)
Thank god someone with brains. Both sides ****ing hate us. They want all we have and they both conspire to steal from us every chance they get. The government is scum. People cheerleading for one side make me absolutely sick.
Yup, they do everything they can to divide us. They'll use ethnicity, socio-economic status, religion, sexuality, party affiliation, anything they can to show us how different we are from one another. The last thing the people in power (on both sides) want is we the people united and working together. As long as we continue to demonize and hate one another, they win, maintaining their stranglehold on money and power.
Per NBC affiliate in Las Vegas 20 minutes ago Dina Titus, a congresswoman from Nevada, vowed to fix this shiz. https://news3lv.com/news/local/nevada-co... (https://news3lv.com/news/local/nevada-congresswoman-dina-titus-fix-tax-reconciliation-bill-gambling-provisions-loss-deductions-poker-players-las-vegas-congress-white-house-donald-trump)
This is one of the rare cases where lobbyists should be a good thing. Like, look senator. This bill makes a lot of forms of gambling almost impossible and will be very bad for our giant corporation. Your 85 IQ nephew might lose his 400k job at the law firm we work with. What special interests would be on the other side of this one?
by I_AM_EVIL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032116#post59032116)
You mean the same way that the Democrat party had zero spine when it came to Biden? People need to wake up and realize that both parties are exactly the same. They don't give a **** about you or me. They only care about what they can get from being a politician. Everything that can be said negatively about 1 party can also be said about the other.
They're not even remotely the same. This is a take I would've had when I was 14 years old and I didn't read or know anything about politics. There are very clear differences in both parties when it comes to policies and effect on the country as a whole. Your first claim is easily disproven given some democrats literally wanted Biden step down months before the 2024 election. And there are reports that behind the scenes his party wanted him to go away essentially.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrats-who-have-called-on-joe-biden-step-down/story?id=111854551 ABC News These Democrats called for Joe Biden to drop out of 2024 race before his announcement (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrats-who-have-called-on-joe-biden-step-down/story?id=111854551)
The GOP would never do that to Trump. Find me one major senator/house republican calling for Trump to step down. I'll wait. It's time to graduate high school buddy, join us in the real world and maybe read an actual article about current events.
by JustASpectator m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032161#post59032161)
Yeah, good call. You were embarrassing yourself pretty harsh here.
Embarrassing will be when you will have to bow before Queen Ivanka (bc the orange idiot is never gonna leave, and will put his children in charge before he dies)
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032025#post59032025)
No, because 90% of $200k is still more than $100k. But if you have $100k in winning and $100k in losses, you could only deduct 90% of the loss, and still owe tax on the additional $10k.
Say you have 300k in tourney wins and 200k in losses under this new potential bill you would have to pay taxes on 120k instead of 100k, what would prevent someone from saying they had 20k in phony cash winnings and 60kk in loses so they can neutralize getting screwed from tourney winnings since there is no real records of cash wins tracked, obviously this isn’t good but I think players will be able to mostly get around some of it.
by Kebabkungen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031628#post59031628)
By far the worst thing this orange buffoon has ever done. Impeachment, now!
He cut USAID which is estimated to result in millions (yes, millions) of deaths to save a small fraction of the amount the tax cuts to people making over 500k per year will get from this bill, and this is the worst thing you think he's done? Wtf This is way down on the list
by JPS m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032357#post59032357)
Say you have 300k in tourney wins and 200k in losses under this new potential bill you would have to pay taxes on 120k instead of 100k, what would prevent someone from saying they had 20k in phony cash winnings and 60kk in loses so they can neutralize getting screwed from tourney winnings since there is no real records of cash wins tracked, obviously this isn’t good but I think... See full post
I mean, in general, there is nothing preventing you from committing tax fraud besides the fact that you might get audited and then you could very well go to jail. And I believe people who file large amounts of gambing winnings and losses are much more likely to get audited than the average citizen. To be fair, probably like 98% of recreational gamblers don’t disclose any gambling winning (or losses) unless they have a win big enough to get a W2G. And probably 95% of these people don’t even realize you’re supposed to do this.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032375#post59032375)
I mean, in general, there is nothing preventing you from committing tax fraud besides the fact that you might get audited and then you could very well go to jail. And I believe people who file large amounts of gambing winnings and losses are much more likely to get audited than the average citizen.To be fair, probably like 98% of recreational gamblers don’t disclose any gamblin... See full post
The tournaments people wouldn’t risk fudging the # but would proof of cash game results come from? I’m sure people already do this now and get away with it but people winning probably wouldn’t take risk but I don’t see what proof of cash game results players have even if audited.
by josh9308 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031844#post59031844)
Can someone explain this to me in elementary terms like the idiot I am?
You set up a corporation, and use the corporation to pay your buyins and deposit any winnings into the corporate account. The change is to the individual tax code, not corporate tax code. Then you pay yourself a salary from the corporation, and you are just another employee. How your employer gets it's money is irrelevant, on your personal taxes you just report wages and pay taxes accordingly. For the corporation, tax implications vary depending on how you structure it (C.Corp, partnership, LLC, etc.) consult a tax pro on that, but the upshot is that corporations have very different forms for recognizing expenses, and this law only addresses expense recognition for individuals. It's a gigantic loophole for the pros who are playing for serious money, and I'm sure their accountants will handle it. For the regular grinder who probably just reports on personal taxes, well they'll need to wise up or get burned. For recs, yeah it's going to hurt because are you really going to set up a corporation if your poker tournament is spending a week or two at the WSOP once a year? I'm not a tax pro, but I set up and operate several small corporations. It is a pile of paperwork, but isn't particularly hard. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Fyi, it was a Democrat who shoved this into the bill at the last second with intentions to sabotage Republicans...and yes I have definitive sources. It was a demonrat Senate Parliamentarian (a lawyer), Elizabeth MacDonough invoking the Byrd rule. She was appointed by Harry Reid. Congress asked for 99% in deductions and she only agreed to 90%. She hates Trump fwiw. And just play cash games. Problem solved.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032413#post59032413)
What on earth would the Byrd rule have to do with this? It’s clearly a budget provision whether it’s 99% or 90%.
What do mean? Uhh, that's what it was. It was literally an activist lawyer trying to sabotage the bill. She amended the Tax cuts and job act set to expire this year. It was brilliant on her part. She is a lawyer. But she did it. It's political warfare.
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032414#post59032414)
What do mean? Uhh, that's what it was. It was literally an activist lawyer trying to sabotage the bill. She amended the Tax cuts and job act set to expire this year.
The Byrd rule prohibits extraneous provision not related to the budget from being included in budget reconciliation packages. The parliamentarian can’t amend a bill by herself, she can just rule that unrelated legislation not be included. A change to the tax law related to gambing losses is related to budget, and permissible under the Byrd rule. It shouldn’t matter whether the change is 99% or 90%. Unless you have some specific source to cite on this, I think what you are claiming here just isn’t true. It’s just not the way the budget process works.
Here is a list of the Senate parliamentarian’s rulings on the Senate version of the bill. http://https://thehill.com/homenews/sena... (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5365060-senate-parliamentarian-gop-bill-rejections/) There’s nothing about taxes on gambling on the list.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032420#post59032420)
The Byrd rule prohibits extraneous provision not related to the budget from being included in budget reconciliation packages. The parliamentarian can’t amend a bill by herself, she can just rule that unrelated legislation not be included. A change to the tax law related to gambing losses is related to budget, and permissible under the Byrd rule. It shouldn’t matter ... See full post
She flagged the extension and said NO to the extension of current tax rules regarding gambling. The tried to negotiate and asked for 99% and she again said NO and only agreed with 90%. So apparently she held the power to do this. A change was introduced to the TCJA that temp removed the limitations that losses could not exceed 2% of AGI set to expire at end of 2025. It's over my head. But it was one lady that hates Trump who knew this would screw over the entire gambling industry and piss a lot of people off who would blame the bill and thus the hope would be to swing votes in midterms.
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032430#post59032430)
She flagged the extension and said NO to the extension of current tax rules regarding gambling. The tried to negotiate and asked for 99% and she again said NO and only agreed with 90%. So apparently she held the power to do this. A change was introduced to the TCJA that temp removed the limitations that losses could not exceed 2% of AGI set to expire at end of 2025. It's over m... See full post
What is your evidence of this? The parliamentarian cannot force amendments to the existing law. She can only strike proposed amendments, and only if they are not germane to the budget.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032434#post59032434)
What is your evidence of this? The parliamentarian cannot force amendments to the existing law. She can only strike proposed amendments, and only if they are not germane to the budget.
No idea, but obviously she has power to decide what can stay or not due to Byrd rule. Congress was negotiating with her and she had the power to keep it at 90% according to what I read. I'm sure there'll be better sources tomorrow. I'm guessing since the current gamblings laws were set to expire and go to 90% instead of 100% she shot down the extension. She didn't actually amend it.
i thought in practice everyone reasonable who plays in usa just plays cash games then change chips like below 10k at time at cages with online pokers use crypto swap it then somewhere so what exactly gets affected and for who is some live tournaments where you are forced pay taxes
by I_AM_EVIL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032116#post59032116)
You mean the same way that the Democrat party had zero spine when it came to Biden? People need to wake up and realize that both parties are exactly the same. They don't give a **** about you or me. They only care about what they can get from being a politician. Everything that can be said negatively about 1 party can also be said about the other.
bingo.
If you can look through the provisions of this bill and think "both parties are exactly the same" you are already too far gone
by cardsharkk04 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032492#post59032492)
If you can look through the provisions of this bill and think "both parties are exactly the same" you are already too far gone
Nobody thinks they are exactly the same. Each plays good cop and bad cop to different bases and the end result is special interests get what they want almost always and politicians make millions from passing legislation they know is bad. American boomers/MSM consumers are the most brainwashed people outside North Korea and trying to get through to them is legitimately like talking to a Jehovas Witness. These people still think Bush, Hillary, Biden, Cheney etc. Supported the Iraq War because of "bad intelligence" or something. Even if true, which is preposterous, but even if.... if you accidentally killed a million innocent people and cost your country trillions you'd probably drink yourself to death. These people laughed all the way to the bank and have never lost a wink. Fortunately, younger generations from all political perspectives seem to realize that most of our rulers are demons. The recycled Iraq playbook is working on cable news brained old people, but very few young people.
by cardsharkk04 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032492#post59032492)
If you can look through the provisions of this bill and think "both parties are exactly the same" you are already too far gone
Ofc both ends of the party aren't exactly the same. They are inverse aspects of the same system(political). They are only designed to expose the extremes/leaks of the other party but in doing so expose the extremes/leaks of their own party. Finding a balance between the 2 parties is the "GTO play". Which doesn't mean the extremes can't be used/explored occasionally, however living n the extremes 24/7/365 isn't going to work. The same way in a poker system we have value bets and we have bluffs. You wouldn't play poker using only 1 extreme of the system of poker and expect to be a winning/good player would you? There's nothing wrong with bluffing as long as you're not only bluffing. It's important to use both aspects of the system despite the fact that a value bet and a bluff are inverse to one another, they are also related and complementary to one another in the system of poker as a whole and within the range of a good players game Being tied only to the ideology of 1 political party as being corrects is like saying....it's only correct to value bet or it's only correct to bluff
Mod note: We obviously can't discuss this topic without politics. The subject is to important not to discuss it in NVG though.
Therefore, the "no politics" rule doesn't apply here. The "no personal attacks" policy is in place though. That means the next person who calls another poster b***, idiot or something along those lines will finish watching this conversation from the sidelines.
by madlex m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032580#post59032580)
I appreciate the effort to keep it civil, but let’s be honest — we’re trying to play nice with people whose entire political identity was summed up by “F*** Your Feelings” in giant font on their trucks.
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032394#post59032394)
Fyi, it was a Democrat who shoved this into the bill at the last second with intentions to sabotage Republicans...and yes I have definitive sources. It was a demonrat Senate Parliamentarian (a lawyer), Elizabeth MacDonough invoking the Byrd rule. She was appointed by Harry Reid. Congress asked for 99% in deductions and she only agreed to 90%. She hates Trump fwiw. And just play... See full post
Seeing how the Parliamentarian is an advisory position and can’t add amendments to a bill, we can all conclude that this is, at best, fake news. And at worst a flat out lie.
Every government is at time of max exploit greed with taxes because whole fiat system which is tied to the usd is so outrageously inflated because governments with banks wanted to print lots of money to themselves. Matters very little if president is person X or Y democrat president had launched same bill with a different name. Historically this pattern follows a large scale war as the next event.
by coordi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032169#post59032169)
Wake UP sheeple, BOTH SIDES
2025 and the average American still don't understand that both parties work for the same people.
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032643#post59032643)
Hey yogurt for brains, I already said she DIDN'T amend the bill. Google her name and position and find out how much power she has over this bill. You just say "fake news" because you're mad you can't blame Trump somehow on this. .
Nice try. This is what you originally claimed. by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032394#post59032394)
Fyi, it was a Democrat who shoved this into the bill at the last second with intentions to sabotage Republicans...and yes I have definitive sources. It was a demonrat Senate Parliamentarian (a lawyer), Elizabeth MacDonough invoking the Byrd rule.
The parliamentarian can’t “shove” anything into a bill AS YOU CLAIMED. They are an advisor, not an elected representative. “Invoking the Byrd rule” only evaluates proposed amendments within a bill to determine if the bill can be passed with a simple majority or can be subjected to a Senate filibuster because budget reconciliation has restrictions on what qualifies. It’s pretty profound you are not only continuing to double down on something several people have pointed out is totally false but also your lack of knowledge on how legislative procedures work. You should just take the L here, educate yourself, and maybe come back another day when you are a bit more informed.
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032430#post59032430)
She flagged the extension and said NO to the extension of current tax rules regarding gambling. The tried to negotiate and asked for 99% and she again said NO and only agreed with 90%. So apparently she held the power to do this. A change was introduced to the TCJA that temp removed the limitations that losses could not exceed 2% of AGI set to expire at end of 2025. It's over m... See full post
This is a complete mischaracterization of what the Senate Parliamentarian did and does. Amendments are proposed, and then the Senate Parliamentarian calls balls or strikes in response to Byrd rule challenges on whether an amendment can be properly included as part of a reconciliation bill. The Senate Parliamentarian has no role in deciding whether a particular amendment is a good idea or not. And the Senate Parliamentarian has no role in recrafting amendments. Yes, proposed amendments can be changed to try and address whatever concerns the Parliamentarian has, but that is as far as it goes. It is absolutely ridiculous to blame the Parliamentarian for a provision in a reconciliation bill that was supported by all but a few Republicans.
by cardsharkk04 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032492#post59032492)
If you can look through the provisions of this bill and think "both parties are exactly the same" you are already too far gone
Bingo
by Phil9 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032611#post59032611)
Seeing how the Parliamentarian is an advisory position and can’t add amendments to a bill, we can all conclude that this is, at best, fake news. And at worst a flat out lie.
The Senate Parliamentarian isn't an advisory position. The Parliamentarian does indeed decide whether a particular amendment can be included as part of a reconciliation bill. But the Senate Parliamentarian has absolutely no authority to cause something to be included in a reconciliation bill. If Republicans didn't want this amendment in the bill, then all they had to do was not include it in the bill. The only thing the Parliamentarian did in this particular instance was say, "yes, GOP, I will allow you to do what you are trying to do." And for that reason, casting this amendment as a decision in favor of Democrats by a partisan hack is absurd.
My bad lemme rephrase Both parties are outright evil Carry on
by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032688#post59032688)
The Senate Parliamentarian isn't an advisory position. The Parliamentarian does indeed decide whether a particular amendment can be included as part of a reconciliation bill. But the Senate Parliamentarian has absolutely no authority to cause something to be included in a reconciliation bill. If Republicans didn't want this amendment in the bill, then all they had to do was ... See full post
How on Earth is it not an advisory position? She literally gives advice and has no actual authority to prevent the Senate from passing a bill that goes against her recommendations. It’s as advisory as it gets. As the presiding officer of the Senate may not be, and usually is not, aware of the parliamentary situation currently facing the Senate, a parliamentary staff sits second from the left on the Senate dais to advise the presiding officer on how to respond to inquiries and motions from senators (including "the Sergeant at Arms will restore order in the gallery"). The role of the parliamentary staff is advisory, and the presiding officer of the Senate may overrule the advice of the parliamentarian.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentarian_of_the_United_States_Senate en Parliamentarian of the United States Senate - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentarian_of_the_United_States_Senate)
The parliamentarian and their staff provide nonpartisan advice to the presiding officer, chamber and committee leaders, individual senators, and staff about Senate rules, precedents, and statutes as they pertain to Senate proceedings.
The parliamentarian’s most important role is to provide procedural advice to the presiding officer during floor proceedings.
It is important to remember that the scripts and verbal advice provided to senators by the parliamentarian are merely advice, not rulings.
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/w... (https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/what-is-the-role-of-the-senate-parliamentarian/)
by madlex m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032580#post59032580)
Mod note: We obviously can't discuss this topic without politics.
honestly...why not? The topic is this particular provision of the bill and:
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031746#post59031746)
None of that mattered until they realized that the face-eating leopard is now going after their face. Well, it's too late. Now what?
It's not too late when it comes to this particular bill. It has not passed yet.
Anyways, I invite everyone to come to Politics & Society and let your freak flags fly. As Rococo mentioned earlier, the moderation is quite a bit more lax currently than moderation has been historically
You can tell that the big beautiful bill is beautiful because none of the provisions in the bill will go into effect until after the 2026 midterms, so that Republicans can tell their constituents, "See? You haven't lost your healthcare, the Democrats were lying, vote for us again!"
Bloomberg: Gamblers Raise Alarm Over $1.1 Billion Tax Hike in Trump’s Bill
Gamblers are raising the alarm about a $1.1 billion tax hike buried in the Senate GOP’s tax bill that would slash their net winnings and potentially charge income tax when they break even or lose money.
In the Senate’s roughly 900-page version of President Donald Trump’s multitrillion-dollar tax bill, gamblers would only be able to deduct 90% of their losses when calculating their net income. Under current law, a bettor can deduct the entirety of their losses, up until the amount of their gambling winnings.
“I’ve spoken to many clients and they’re very concerned,” Zachary Zimbile, an accountant with experience in gambling regulations, said in an interview. “If you add a 10% penalty, it’s going to eat into a lot of their profit.”
Professional gamblers recently took to social media to rail against the measure, which would take effect next year, and urged Republicans to change it. Congressional scorekeepers have calculated it will net the government $1.1 billion through 2034.
Representative Dina Titus, a Democrat who represents the Las Vegas area, said she is seeking a fix. Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/... (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-07-02/one-big-beautiful-bill-gamblers-raise-alarm-over-1-1-billion-tax-hike)
by Phil9 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032716#post59032716)
How on Earth is it not an advisory position? She literally gives advice and has no actual authority to prevent the Senate from passing a bill that goes against her recommendations. It’s as advisory as it gets.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentarian_of_the_United_States_Senate en Parliamentarian of the United States Senate - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentarian_of_the_United_States_Senate)
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/w... (https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/what-is-the-role-of-the-senate-parliamentarian/)
One of the unique features of a reconciliation bill is that it can be passed by a simple majority in both houses. In other words, unlike other bills, a reconciliation bill isn't subject to a filibuster (or the requirement of 60 votes in the Senate to pass legislation over a filibuster). Yes, the Senate can overcome the Parliamentarian's "recommendation" on a Byrd rule challenge. But they need 60 votes to do so--i.e., the same number of votes they would need to overcome the filibuster. And the presiding officer of the Senate (i.e., the VP) can reject the recommendation, but that hasn't been done in nearly five decades. Thus, the decisions of the Parliamentarian have real practical consequences.
But plumbing the nuances of the power of the Senate Parliamentarian is beside the point. The Senate Parliamentarian indisputably is not responsible for this amendment being in the bill. That's 100% on the 50 Republicans who supported the bill.
by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032740#post59032740)
One of the unique features of a reconciliation bill is that it can be passed by a simple majority in both houses. In other words, unlike other bills, a reconciliation bill isn't subject to a filibuster (or the requirement of 60 votes in the Senate to pass legislation over a filibuster). Yes, the Senate can overcome the Parliamentarian's "recommendation" on a Byrd rule challen... See full post
Ok but what does that have to do with whether the Parliamentarian is an advisory position? It’s the very definition of an advisory position. They have no power to enforce what they rule and no means to punish. They offer their expertise to the Senate leadership but there is no actual mechanism the Parliamentarian can use to force the Senate to abide by it. by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032750#post59032750)
But plumbing the nuances of the power of the Senate Parliamentarian is beside the point. The Senate Parliamentarian indisputably is not responsible for this amendment being in the bill. That's 100% on the 50 Republicans who supported the bill.
Pretty much. I’m just humored some troll tried to blame Democrats for a bill that was crafted by Republicans in the House and Senate with overwhelming Republican support. Which probably tells you just how unpopular this bill will end up being. Especially since he has no idea what the role of the Parliamentarian is and tried to pretend she “shoved” this amendment into the bill which is just embarrassing.
The Senate parliamentarian can actually be overruled by a simple majority vote of the Senate. It’s just that this would be a major breach of Senate protocol and no one has been willing to go this far yet. But regardless, I have seen absolutely no evidence that the parliamentarian had any role in this part of the legislation, and I can’t really comprehend how she could have had the influence that BGnight is ascribing to her given what her actual job is. FWIW, I am a professor of American legislative politics. I have teach courses on and have published research on the US Congress. Several people in the thread don’t understand what they are claiming.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032803#post59032803)
The Senate parliamentarian can actually be overruled by a simple majority vote of the Senate. It’s just that this would be a major breach of Senate protocol and no one has been willing to go this far yet.But regardless, I have seen absolutely no evidence that the parliamentarian had any role in this part of the legislation, and I can’t really comprehend how she coul... See full post
That is technically correct. I stand corrected. We all agree that the Senate Parliamentarian isn't responsible for this being in the bill.
well according to twitter some senator from Idaho named Crapo (yes thats his name) is the reason for the language. One of American's fine Mormon senators who is also a convicted drunk driver. cool! dems may not be exactly pro poker or pro gambling, but now both the UIGEA and this poison tax policy have been put forth by religious republicans.
I can see how a lot of players who were formally pros using poker for 100% of income will now need regular jobs and maybe play on the side. It's a lot easier to cheat on your taxes that way.
It's not real to me until SrslySrs makes a song about it.
by c double m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032873#post59032873)
I can see how a lot of players who were formally pros using poker for 100% of income will now need regular jobs and maybe play on the side. It's a lot easier to cheat on your taxes that way.
Anything that thins the herd of unsociable, tanking misregs and makes poker enjoyable again for the common man I fully support. YES to BBB!!
You need to be a very special kind of special to start and engage in a Covid/vaccination debate in this thread. Can't make this stuff up.
by madlex m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032891#post59032891)
You need to be a very special kind of special to start and engage in a Covid/vaccination debate in this thread. Can't make this stuff up.
Thank you , you gotta feed the trolls sometimes 😂
and there it is...the bill passes after Dear Leader shouts down front on high that it better pass. the Republican Party is not a political operation anymore. It is a cult. What Trump says, goes. Period. There was never any doubt. And if you still support this President and administration, you are part of that cult, and anything you have to say - about anything - will never hold any sway with me ever again. You've been duped and you still will not realize it until the leopard eats YOUR face.
Nothing brings more joy than seeing BBB pass, well, maybe seeing Dominic in hysterics is a close second lol.
ICE now has over 70 billion dollars to build more concentration camps. Just in time for Independence Day.
hey Fly, if you're responding to my posts, I can't see 'em! So you're pissing into the wind, Gomer. You have nothing to say I ever want to see. 😃
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032953#post59032953)
ICE now has over 70 billion dollars to build more concentration camps. Just in time for Independence Day.
Sure, maybe the president's personal gestapo now has a budget larger than the 7th largest military in the world, and maybe 5% of americans just lost health care, but at least we killed the careers of Vegas misreg tournament grinders.
rip
by kvnd m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032367#post59032367)
He cut USAID which is estimated to result in millions (yes, millions) of deaths to save a small fraction of the amount the tax cuts to people making over 500k per year will get from this bill, and this is the worst thing you think he's done? Wtf This is way down on the list
Show me where there are any new tax cuts for the 500k+ earners compared to last year, or any year since 2018. Frankly we are spending ourselves into oblivion. THAT will be much worse for those same people and billions of others. I say a pox on all of them ,but your characterization and claims are simply wrong. There is plenty of **** that Trump is pushing that is bad but this is WAY down the list.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032375#post59032375)
I mean, in general, there is nothing preventing you from committing tax fraud besides the fact that you might get audited and then you could very well go to jail. And I believe people who file large amounts of gambing winnings and losses are much more likely to get audited than the average citizen.To be fair, probably like 98% of recreational gamblers don’t disclose any gamblin... See full post
You would be amazed at how many people who get W2Gs and are eligible but don’t even claim the deduction they are entitled to. Anyone think this will have any impact on recreational gamblers, particularly slot degens, is simply crazy. Those folks don’t consider taxes while slapping that button.
So, as much fun as it is to point fingers at the other side (like sandpaper on your eyeballs), back to the facts. Was this still included in the final version that the House just passed? Is it over?
Of course it was included
As long as you bought Bitcoin you'll be alright. If you're heavy in cash, you'll get crushed and I can understand why you'd be angry. You cannot taper a ponzi scheme. Print baby print!
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032941#post59032941)
and there it is...the bill passes after Dear Leader shouts down front on high that it better pass. the Republican Party is not a political operation anymore. It is a cult. What Trump says, goes. Period. There was never any doubt.And if you still support this President and administration, you are part of that cult, and anything you have to say - about anything - will never hold ... See full post
You might be a Bills fan, but at least I know from this post, you've still got a working brain.
by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032982#post59032982)
So, as much fun as it is to point fingers at the other side (like sandpaper on your eyeballs), back to the facts. Was this still included in the final version that the House just passed? Is it over?
They would have to send back to the senate if they changed any of the bill language, so this was always going to stay once it passed the senate. Shockingly Doug “MAGA” Polk doesn’t have that kind of pull
by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032982#post59032982)
So, as much fun as it is to point fingers at the other side (like sandpaper on your eyeballs), back to the facts. Was this still included in the final version that the House just passed? Is it over?
Yes. There was less than a 1 in 1000 chance that it would be removed once if got to the House
by newguyhere m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032992#post59032992)
You might be a Bills fan, but at least I know from this post, you've still got a working brain.
New, our "animosity" is never real on my part...just two football fans who root for rival teams. Which is the fun part of sports!
by Yamihere m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032377#post59032377)
You set up a corporation, and use the corporation to pay your buyins and deposit any winnings into the corporate account. The change is to the individual tax code, not corporate tax code. Then you pay yourself a salary from the corporation, and you are just another employee. How your employer gets it's money is irrelevant, on your personal taxes you just report wages and pay ta... See full post
It is DEFINITELY more complicated and dependent on specific set up. For a single member LLC treated as a disregarded entity, that and sole proprietorship cover the VAST majority professional gamblers, the wins and losses hit your sched C which will almost definitely have this new deduction limitation. There probably are structures to get around this limit but a) until the exact enacting regs/rules are written no one can state with certainty any reality but b) it will be more complicated than the normal LLC. The best hope is to get this changed in a corrective bill. At almost 1000 pages, there will be “gotchas” found. There will likely be a separate new law to make corrections. If not this year, next after they pop up in reality.
(https://twitter.com/repdinatitus)
Dina Titus (https://twitter.com/repdinatitus)@repdinatitus (https://twitter.com/repdinatitus)· Follow (https://x.com/intent/follow?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1940847778651164940%7Ctwgr%5Ef96b4d501a4fd3d9a9f6200608a38fc268272b45%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC%3Fpage%3D5&screen_name=repdinatitus)
(https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/1940847778651164940?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1940847778651164940%7Ctwgr%5Ef96b4d501a4fd3d9a9f6200608a38fc268272b45%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC%3Fpage%3D5) Republicans hurt Las Vegas gamblers and the gaming industry with their BS budget.
I am working on a bill now that would reverse this unfair anti-gaming tax provision.
(https://help.x.com/x-for-websites-ads-info-and-privacy) 1.7K (https://x.com/intent/like?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1940847778651164940%7Ctwgr%5Ef96b4d501a4fd3d9a9f6200608a38fc268272b45%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC%3Fpage%3D5&tweet_id=1940847778651164940)Reply (https://x.com/intent/tweet?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1940847778651164940%7Ctwgr%5Ef96b4d501a4fd3d9a9f6200608a38fc268272b45%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC%3Fpage%3D5&in_reply_to=1940847778651164940) Copy link
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$267M of national park staff funding. Gone.
So did this make it to the House version that they are about to vote on and then give to Trump to sign? I read some conflicting stuff on if it made into this version or not.
by Mother Mucker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033016#post59033016)
So did this make it to the House version that they are about to vote on and then give to Trump to sign? I read some conflicting stuff on if it made into this version or not.
If it was given to Trump to sign then it must have been passed in an identical version to the Senate bill.
by Mother Mucker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033016#post59033016)
So did this make it to the House version that they are about to vote on and then give to Trump to sign? I read some conflicting stuff on if it made into this version or not.
It's in, and the House passed it. It's over.
lol worrying about the gambling implications of this bill is like being on the Titanic and worrying about how the seawater might damage the couch cushions.
I have a lot of trouble feeling sorry for gamblers who voted for Trump. Sure, you can vote for a candidate on the theory that he mostly plans to do bad things to people who are unlike you. But it doesn't always work out that way. Playing with dynamite is super fun right up until the moment it isn't.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033030#post59033030)
lol worrying about the gambling implications of this bill is like being on the Titanic and worrying about how the seawater might damage the couch cushions.
People are talking about the implications for gambling because that's the nominal purpose of the thread. They aren't claiming the gambling amendment is the only problem or the main problem. Also, the time to worry about things like this bill was in November. After Trump won and the Republicans got control of both houses, something very close to this reconciliation bill was inevitable.
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032394#post59032394)
Fyi, it was a Democrat who shoved this into the bill at the last second with intentions to sabotage Republicans...and yes I have definitive sources. It was a demonrat Senate Parliamentarian (a lawyer), Elizabeth MacDonough invoking the Byrd rule. She was appointed by Harry Reid. Congress asked for 99% in deductions and she only agreed to 90%. She hates Trump fwiw. And just play... See full post
We don’t know her affiliation. Her post is subject to strict neutrality. Plus she actually doesn’t have final say. It is the President of Senate who actually has final say. Though it would be incredibly rare to overturn her. Plus she has been praised and pillared by both parties after ruling for and against both. She clerked for a Judge nominated by Reagan (though he is probably more liberal than Reagan hoped). Byrd rule is pretty constraining on the reconciliation process.
by Fore m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033039#post59033039)
We don’t know her affiliation. Her post is subject to strict neutrality. Plus she actually doesn’t have final say. It is the President of Senate who actually has final say. Though it would be incredibly rare to overturn her. Plus she has been praised and pillared by both parties after ruling for and against both. She clerked for a Judge nominated by Reagan (though h... See full post
BGnight doesn't know wtf he is talking about. The Senate Parliamentarian doesn't cause anything to be affirmatively included in a reconciliation bill.
by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033033#post59033033)
I have a lot of trouble feeling sorry for average Americans who voted for Trump. Sure, you can vote for a candidate on the theory that he mostly plans to do bad things to people who are unlike you. But it doesn't always work out that way. Playing with dynamite is super fun right up until the moment it isn't.
fyp
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by ejames209 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032991#post59032991)
As long as you bought Bitcoin you'll be alright.
stay humble, stack sats
When will the part of the bill effecting the gambling tax go into effect?
by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033021#post59033021)
It's in, and the House passed it. It's over.
Mason Malmuth, come on down and accept your prize
by parisron m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033010#post59033010)
https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/194084... (https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/1940847778651164940)... See full post
So what are the chances she can pull this off?
0
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032414#post59032414)
What do mean? Uhh, that's what it was. It was literally an activist lawyer trying to sabotage the bill. She amended the Tax cuts and job act set to expire this year. It was brilliant on her part. She is a lawyer. But she did it. It's political warfare.
She doesn’t do anything. She makes a ruling but President of Senate actually implements (or can ignore)such decisions. She can be overruled but it is considered a nuclear option and VERY rare. She literally cannot amend ANYTHING as she is not a member of the Senate. TCJA was ALWAYS written to expire in 10 years. That is standard how these kinds of provision get scored by CBO.
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032394#post59032394)
Fyi, it was a Democrat who shoved this into the bill at the last second with intentions to sabotage Republicans...and yes I have definitive sources. It was a demonrat Senate Parliamentarian (a lawyer), Elizabeth MacDonough invoking the Byrd rule. She was appointed by Harry Reid. Congress asked for 99% in deductions and she only agreed to 90%. She hates Trump fwiw. And just play... See full post
The number of misconceptions you’d have to have to come to the conclusion that’s how any of this works is astounding. Parliamentarians (among other things) provide rulings on legislation that conflict with legislative statutes. They technically can’t even remove conflicting statutes from a bill themselves, only rule it can’t be included. They certainly can’t unilaterally insert language into a bill. Furthermore, all business of the Senate is public, and the vast majority has been streaming live on CSPAN. It would be the political story of the century if your version of events took place, not something getting spread on a poker form. Happy to ship you a copy of Robert’s Rules, but a simple google would show whoever fed you that version of events was lying to your face.
it's all worth it as long as our kids can get jobs in the fields before school and pick some strawberries
its alright guys tournaments are lame anyway just play cash games!
by StoppedRainingMen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033079#post59033079)
Mason Malmuth, come on down and accept your prize
He’ll find a way to blame democrats
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032430#post59032430)
She flagged the extension and said NO to the extension of current tax rules regarding gambling. The tried to negotiate and asked for 99% and she again said NO and only agreed with 90%. So apparently she held the power to do this. A change was introduced to the TCJA that temp removed the limitations that losses could not exceed 2% of AGI set to expire at end of 2025. It's over m... See full post
She literally has no power at all beyond what deference the Pres of Sen allows. If he ignores her ruling, someone can call a point of order. This then gets voted on by entire senate. And the results of this senate vote establishes a new precedent. So literally Senate Repubs could override her by a simple party line vote. The price of that is so can Dems next time they don’t like a ruling. These kinds of tit for tat would make senate even less manageable. You can’t even show she hates Trump. The last time she was ignored was when Reid invoked the nuclear option to change the rules on filibustering judges. She has ruled against Dems as much as Repubs. It really is about the last actual non partisan role in govt.
in theory this means all us based tournament grinders should need to retire right? The interesting part to me is I don't think this will kill live tournaments. Infact someone like me who lives in canada can now travel to the united states and play in mtt's with only American fish since all the pros switched to cash or retired. Pretty funny plz vote the guy who wants to annex us more
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032441#post59032441)
No idea, but obviously she has power to decide what can stay or not due to Byrd rule. Congress was negotiating with her and she had the power to keep it at 90% according to what I read. I'm sure there'll be better sources tomorrow. I'm guessing since the current gamblings laws were set to expire and go to 90% instead of 100% she shot down the extension. She didn't actually amen... See full post
If TCJA expired, and that is where current rules were set, things go back to pre 2018. There was no 90% limit on loss deductions. So that is not what happened. I am not saying she did not tell them, without formal ruling, what was her introduction. The Senate Byrd rules are HIGHLY detailed and confusing. I don’t see how ext3nding just as is would have violated but I am not a parlimentarian. It is very complex and confusing. But she cannot do anything. The VP presides over the senate and has the real say. If her interpretation was way out of wack and not supported by Byrd rule, I don’t think this administration would be afraid to ignore her.
by #Thinman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033108#post59033108)
it's all worth it as long as our kids can get jobs in the fields before school and pick some strawberries
i'm curious what jobs you foresee people having in 5, 10, 20 years. i'm pretty bearish on jobs
yep Europeans can come play poker tournaments in America tax free. you guys have really made alot of peoples day taking all the winning regs out of the field. poker won't really die. unbeatable raked poker runs all over the world including where I live. fish don't care only pros
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by 6.5 inches m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032456#post59032456)
i thought in practice everyone reasonable who plays in usa just plays cash games then change chips like below 10k at time at cages with online pokers use crypto swap it then somewhere so what exactly gets affected and for who is some live tournaments where you are forced pay taxes
Well you are conflating multiple laws. The $10K transaction limit has nothing to do with taxes. While nothing ever gets reported tax wise on live poker play, ignoring BBJP and similar, that doesn’t mean taxes on cash winnings are not taxable. And there are people who pay taxes for live cash play. You can be caught for not paying such taxes. BTW using legit crypto services won’t avoid CTRs. FinCEN ruled on this years ago. But again, that $10K limit has nothing to do with taxes. You also might want to reconsider how anonymous and hidden crypto is. You can be identified. Your transactions tracked. And monies reclaimed. If you don’t believe that look into the ransomwear case involving Colonial Pipeline in 2021. (And govt capabilities today are far more advanced.)
I'm grateful a few more people are paying attention, but this provision is about the least offensive thing in this bill.
by Punker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032725#post59032725)
It's not too late when it comes to this particular bill. It has not passed yet.
Well now it has. But honestly the best possible way to change this was always via the eventual corrections bill. There will be some gotchas that need to be fixed. Maybe even some typos. The actual impact in general from this amendment are miniscule. No way was any Congressman going to change their vote based on this alone.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032731#post59032731)
You can tell that the big beautiful bill is beautiful because none of the provisions in the bill will go into effect until after the 2026 midterms, so that Republicans can tell their constituents, "See? You haven't lost your healthcare, the Democrats were lying, vote for us again!"
You are incorrect. The biggest provisions in this bill are maintaining the curr3nt tax rates set by 2017 TCJA. Your clear bias is showing.
by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032740#post59032740)
One of the unique features of a reconciliation bill is that it can be passed by a simple majority in both houses. In other words, unlike other bills, a reconciliation bill isn't subject to a filibuster (or the requirement of 60 votes in the Senate to pass legislation over a filibuster). Yes, the Senate can overcome the Parliamentarian's "recommendation" on a Byrd rule challen... See full post
No they do not. If a ruling is ignored a call for point of order is raised. That is then voted on by the senate but only a simple majority is required to set the new precedent
by ES2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032502#post59032502)
Nobody thinks they are exactly the same. Each plays good cop and bad cop to different bases and the end result is special interests get what they want almost always and politicians make millions from passing legislation they know is bad. American boomers/MSM consumers are the most brainwashed people outside North Korea and trying to get through to them is legitimately like tal... See full post
if the other party was in place millions of people wouldn't be thrown off their health insurance. There's meaningful differences btwn these two parties.
by billyjex m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033157#post59033157)
FAKE NEWS IT WAS SOME DEM CUZ I READ IT ON TWITTER -fgators probably
by dappadan777 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031008#post59031008)
There’s no chance this passes right?
Perhaps the most….inaccurate….comment ever posted to social media by an otherwise intelligent person who should’ve known better. Trump really needs to start demanding GOP officials turn over their daughters to him & his sons on their 18th birthdays. I sincerely hope Barron becomes the American Uday Hussein.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032803#post59032803)
The Senate parliamentarian can actually be overruled by a simple majority vote of the Senate. It’s just that this would be a major breach of Senate protocol and no one has been willing to go this far yet.But regardless, I have seen absolutely no evidence that the parliamentarian had any role in this part of the legislation, and I can’t really comprehend how she could have had t... See full post
Then you should know parliamentarian has been ignored/overruled previously. It is rare and is considered a major step to take but it has occurred. Last time I know it happened was 1975. But it normally doesn’t go that far. Just a serious threat to do so has lead to small shifts in parliamentarian positions. While a big deal, do you really think this administration, since VP presides over senate, would not do it? Trump has shown he is willing to push limits, particularly unclear ones simply to force clarity. His position on birthright citizenship is one current one. As is using foreign enemies act against gangs.
by Rococo m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033005#post59033005)
Yes. There was less than a 1 in 1000 chance that it would be removed once if got to the House
There was zero chance House would remove it. This is such a miniscule thing to the big picture, no way they remove it to send back through Senate. Best and stil chance is if when there is a corrective bill to fix the inherent gotchas a 1000 page bill will have.
The gambling tax implications will only have maybe 5% of poker players. If I walk into Parx or Borgata on an average given day and look around, less then 5% of people playing will suffer any consequence. Now if we are talking about the field in one of these high roller tournies at WSOP, that's a different story. Then there are big consequences on most of the players Without getting into politics too much.. The other things in the Bill are the same way. There are less then 5% of the population who will be effected by the major talking points..Medicaid cuts, more money for ICE, tax cuts, etc. Assuming you are a US citizen that works there will be no consequences, others then keeping the tax cuts that you have gotten since 2018 that were set to expire. You aren't getting an additional cut, just like billionaires aren't getting anything extra or new, like the democrats would like the sheep to believe. You just aren't losing the tax cuts you have been getting, same for billionaires and middle class. Now if you aren't a citizen, or if you get paid under the table and get Medicaid since you claim no income. You very well could have problems and consequences. I'm sure there will also be some people who legit need Medicare who are on the fringes, (real close to the qualifying income) who might have to fight a little and do additional paperwork or prove their disability. Or people who have family who are illegals, etc, This probably will effect them. Hostpitals, other med services with a high % of medicaid patients will be effected , especially in areas with a high % of illegals. Main point... the gambling aspect, just like the other parts don't even effect most of the people who are screaming and yelling because their media tells them too.
by zrap m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033235#post59033235)
The gambling tax implications will only have maybe 5% of poker players.If I walk into Parx or Borgata on an average given day and look around, less then 5% of people playing will suffer any consequence. Now if we are talking about the field in one of these high roller tournies at WSOP, that's a different story. Then there are big consequences on most of the playersWithout gett... See full post
I know this will be a foreign concept for you, but some people have empathy for others even when it provides no financial or personal gain. Jews were 1% of the population of Nazi Germany when Hitler came into power. Not sure why anyone cared about them when it didn't effect the majority.
by parisron m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033010#post59033010)
https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/194084... (https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/1940847778651164940)... See full post
I sent her an email tis morning and she was pretty quick to respond with about the same message.
Its hilarious there's even a suggestion of keeping it on the issue and not go after parties when it was one party running the House, Senate, and White House. It's suggested we only discuss the terrible effect but completely ignore the cause. The delusion of Trump supporters is as visible then ever in this thread. People would rather accept easily disproven conspiracy theories that it was 'demonrat parlimentarian' then the public information readily available showing otherwise. They always 'read it somewhere' (when you can literally just read congress.gov to get the actual info). Now we're past the "Republicans didn't do this phase", right on clockwork we're into the "Well, Republicans did do this, but it's not a big deal that they did". I recognize there's more important things than professional poker but it does seem like a tax change that could very easily kill tournament poker in the USA should obviously be recognized as a very bad thing on a poker forum, yet the Trump cultists are too far in to call a spade a spade. Trump Derangement Syndrome was always the most blatant example of psychological projection ever created, people just calling out objective facts are labeled 'deranged' by cult members who will follow their Dear Leader off a cliff. Its part of the playbook since the beginning, the crazy projection, calling people names since the 2016 primaries then complaining others need to "tone down the rhetoric", espousing misinformation then accusing others of fake news, hating our country then accusing others of doing it etc. The conman has a long history of cons, the list is endless, yet people really thought he was their conman and wouldn't con them. It's embarrassing to share air with people this stupid. And now after all this, its a Democrat politiicans who saying shes going to fight to get it fixed and still people are squinting for ways to blame this on the party trying to help them to apologize for the party who created the problem. Thanks for killing poker DNegs, Brian Rast, Doug Polk, etc Good thing you fought to get those billionare tax breaks though, Im sure you're ready to take full advantage of them.
Well, you see, higher rake is actually better
seems like professional tournament poker or any form of online grinding will be untenable. Only reason live cash players might be ok is because they likely don't report correctly. Definitely sad, and another example of how our legislators are terrible. Still a godsend that we didn't elect a cackling ****** with no business running anything let along being POTUS. Anyone upset should blame Biden and his handlers for fumbling harder than imaginable last year. The hysteria is comical.
by PenelopeCruz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033359#post59033359)
seems like professional tournament poker or any form of online grinding will be untenable. Only reason live cash players might be ok is because they likely don't report correctly. Definitely sad, and another example of how our legislators are terrible. Still a godsend that we didn't elect a cackling ****** with no business running anything let along being POTUS. Anyone upset sh... See full post
The Red party did something bad to us we didn't like, but it's really the Blue party's fault for not defeating the Red party to stop the Red party from doing the bad thing, and that's why the Red party is better. The delusion is off the charts, further evidence you can't reason with people in a cult.
PSA for the poker world: IRS Form 3949-A exists for a reason. If someone’s bragging about not reporting or under reporting cash game wins, you don’t have to stay quiet. You can stay anon. Form 3949-A = anonymous, no reward Form 211 = not anonymous, potential reward
snitching on people will definitely help!
by Manner Please m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033364#post59033364)
The Red party did something bad to us we didn't like, but it's really the Blue party's fault for not defeating the Red party to stop the Red party from doing the bad thing, and that's why the Red party is better. The delusion is off the charts, further evidence you can't reason with people in a cult.
Political will/capital is off the charts precisely because people were treated as if they were stupid (and of course all the idiotic things that were actually done). The further the pendulum swings one way, the harder it swings back.
Maybe you could come up with a better criticism for a life long politician being unqualified than insulting her laugh
by ThomasWalsh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033105#post59033105)
The number of misconceptions you’d have to have to come to the conclusion that’s how any of this works is astounding.Parliamentarians (among other things) provide rulings on legislation that conflict with legislative statutes.They technically can’t even remove conflicting statutes from a bill themselves, only rule it can’t be included. They certainly can’t unilaterally insert l... See full post
Broh he is holding on to the only narrative he has found to blame this on the other side...Don't let the truth to get in the way of a good narrative...
by LegendaryLurker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033372#post59033372)
PSA for the poker world: IRS Form 3949-A exists for a reason. If someone’s bragging about not reporting or under reporting cash game wins, you don’t have to stay quiet. You can stay anon. Form 3949-A = anonymous, no reward Form 211 = not anonymous, potential reward
Top 1% saddest existence, rethink your life
by coordi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033394#post59033394)
Maybe you could come up with a better criticism for a life long politician being unqualified than insulting her laugh
would derail the thread, obviously. I don't think there's any shortage of well thought out and valid criticisms in the public sphere if that's of interest to you. I do find it interesting that you think being a life-long politician is somehow a qualification. Also a sad and unfortunate fact that being a prosecutor is a political endeavor.
thanks OBAMA!
by #Thinman m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033406#post59033406)
thanks OBAMA!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHckZCxd... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHckZCxdRkA)
by PenelopeCruz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033405#post59033405)
would derail the thread, obviously. I don't think there's any shortage of well thought out and valid criticisms in the public sphere if that's of interest to you. I do find it interesting that you think being a life-long politician is somehow a qualification. Also a sad and unfortunate fact that being a prosecutor is a political endeavor.
lol
by zrap m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033235#post59033235)
The gambling tax implications will only have maybe 5% of poker players.If I walk into Parx or Borgata on an average given day and look around, less then 5% of people playing will suffer any consequence. Now if we are talking about the field in one of these high roller tournies at WSOP, that's a different story. Then there are big consequences on most of the playersWithout gett... See full post
All I read was if this is not happening to me is ok lol ... Btw no illegal migrant gets Medicaid unless for medical emergencies which represent 0.4% of the Medicaid budged.
by PenelopeCruz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033359#post59033359)
seems like professional tournament poker or any form of online grinding will be untenable. Only reason live cash players might be ok is because they likely don't report correctly. Definitely sad, and another example of how our legislators are terrible. Still a godsend that we didn't elect a cackling ****** with no business running anything let along being POTUS. Anyone upset sh... See full post
Oh! look, you did the meme
(https://tptstorageaccount38381.blob.core.windows.net/images/TZBwEJX.jfif?width=1024&height=774)
by LucidDream m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033404#post59033404)
Top 1% saddest existence, rethink your life
Sorry I interrupted your dream of a tax-free $42K year grinding $1/$2. Carry on, king.
by LegendaryLurker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033429#post59033429)
Sorry I interrupted your dream of a tax-free $42K year grinding $1/$2. Carry on, king.
Thankfully you're legendary at lurking. Post less plz
by LegendaryLurker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033429#post59033429)
Sorry I interrupted your dream of a tax-free $42K year grinding $1/$2. Carry on, king.
Bro these politicians bend us over at every angle in every way, enrich themselves through PAC contributions, donations etc etc. And you’re attacking the common man just grinding it out. Real boot licking activities.
Should absolutely 211 form every republican you know that gambles.
by coordi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033394#post59033394)
Maybe you could come up with a better criticism for a life long politician being unqualified than insulting her laugh
Life long politician is an insult in and of itself.
(https://twitter.com/BAanalytics_)
BAanalytics (https://twitter.com/BAanalytics_)@BAanalytics_ (https://twitter.com/BAanalytics_)· Follow (https://x.com/intent/follow?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1940886561719206059%7Ctwgr%5Ebf5f97dbeb932feabb8eba5743d249a606aa357c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC%3Fpage%3D8&screen_name=BAanalytics_)
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American Gaming Association
@AmericanGaming
The passage of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act significantly enhances our industry’s ability to sustain quality jobs and deliver economic benefits — and we look forward to President Trump’s expected signature.
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by Manner Please m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033330#post59033330)
b Thanks for killing poker DNegs, Brian Rast, Doug Polk, etc Good thing you fought to get those billionare tax breaks though, Im sure you're ready to take full advantage of them.
Not sure what Negreanu has to do with this. He’s been very critical of Democrats’ strategy, but he certainly never voted for Trump.
by rickroll m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033467#post59033467)
The American Gaming Association is only interesting in people losing money in their casinos. If the changes in the tax law drive away winning players, they would be all for that.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033475#post59033475)
Not sure what Negreanu has to do with this. He’s been very critical of Democrats’ strategy, but he certainly never voted for Trump.
He hyped up anti-immigration and other right wing nonsense for the better part of a year leading up into the election, played the victim card when people called him out on it, then doubled and tripled down
Tbh as someone who has been vehemently anti-trump it gets me rock hard to see the ‘wait what’ ITT from trump supporters in this forum who this impacts, including but not limited to ***** ******* To non trump-supporters who this impacts, idk, that sucks, but we’re all ****ed together
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033475#post59033475)
Not sure what Negreanu has to do with this. He’s been very critical of Democrats’ strategy, but he certainly never voted for Trump.
Pretty sure he was pro Trump this election. He was anti Trump back in 2016. What he voted for I'm not sure, but IF he voted this election, was definitely Trump > Kamala
by housenuts m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033499#post59033499)
Pretty sure he was pro Trump this election. He was anti Trump back in 2016. What he voted for I'm not sure, but IF he voted this election, was definitely Trump > Kamala
I think he said he wasn’t voting for either Trump or Harris.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033500#post59033500)
I think he said he wasn’t voting for either Trump or Harris.
(None)
of These Candidates is a based vote
by StoppedRainingMen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033497#post59033497)
Tbh as someone who has been vehemently anti-trump it gets me rock hard to see the ‘wait what’ ITT from trump supporters in this forum who this impacts, including but not limited to ***** ******* To non trump-supporters who this impacts, idk, that sucks, but we’re all ****ed together
this isn't even a trump issue, if anyone thinks he gives two ****s about this provision one way or the other just lol.
by pokeraz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033164#post59033164)
I'm grateful a few more people are paying attention, but this provision is about the least offensive thing in this bill.
implying poker players care about anything other than poker when comments like "both parties are the same" get tons of thumbs up lol.
by Fore m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033198#post59033198)
Then you should know parliamentarian has been ignored/overruled previously. It is rare and is considered a major step to take but it has occurred. Last time I know it happened was 1975. But it normally doesn’t go that far. Just a serious threat to do so has lead to small shifts in parliamentarian positions. While a big deal, do you really think this administration, since VP pre... See full post
You are correct about the technical relationship between the Parliamentarian and the VP, but when it comes to the gambling tax, the question of whether Republicans/Trump are willing to push limits re the Parliamentarian is irrelevant. Republicans supported a bill that included an amendment related to gambling. The Parliamentarian did not advise against the inclusion of the amendment. The Republicans have no beef with the Parliamentarian on this amendment. They got what they wanted.
Who's the actual representative responsible for introducing this? Does anyone know or is it obscured by the committees and no one really knows. Should just make a campaign to finance his or her competitor in next election at this point nothing else will send a message
by smoothcriminal99 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033689#post59033689)
Who's the actual representative responsible for introducing this? Does anyone know or is it obscured by the committees and no one really knows. Should just make a campaign to finance his competitor in next election at this point nothing else will send a message
Apparently some chud named Crapo
by StoppedRainingMen m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033188#post59033188)
FAKE NEWS IT WAS SOME DEM CUZ I READ IT ON TWITTER -fgators probably
BGNight has “definitive sources” saying this was the fault of someone who can’t even add amendments to a bill. Who am I to doubt such logic?
by PenelopeCruz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033359#post59033359)
seems like professional tournament poker…will be untenable..
Always pretty much was unless you were backed.
These politicians slid this into the bill knowing people hate gambling. How can they come up with this part of the bill thinking this was a good idea? I am angry about this bill.
by PenelopeCruz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033513#post59033513)
this isn't even a trump issue, if anyone thinks he gives two ****s about this provision one way or the other just lol.
There’s zero chance he knows it’s in there, would know what it does if it did, or GAF about any way under any circumstances.
by BullyEyelash m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033775#post59033775)
There’s zero chance he knows it’s in there, would know what it does if it did, or GAF about any way under any circumstances.
Which would be even worse since he’s signing the bill.
I am having buyers remorse as being a trump supporter. My former girlfriend tried to get me to vote for Kamala but I didn't want to. She told me "vote for Kamala do it for your niece". She was trying to manipulate my vote. She then stone walled me and withheld sex and communication with me based on me not wanting to vote for Kamala. If you voted for Trump you can't win because people will dislike you and hold it against you. She called me Trump Lover and a fool pretty much.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031746#post59031746)
fine, I'll just post it again:It's sad that the racist, fascist, sexist dumbasses who populate 2+2 only care about this bill because it's going to affect their bottom line. It wasn't the opening of an American concentration camp, it wasn't that we elected a criminal President, it wasn't that we're ripping health care out of the hands of people who can't afford it, it wasn't tha... See full post
I mean i dislike Trump as much as the next guy but american concentration camps are nothing new. I mean what else is a for profit prison complex paired with a deeply racist legal system. If you dont want to count those there isa t least no way you ca convicne me Guantanamo is anything but a concentration camp.
why do those latinos come to USA and do crime . Is it not the land of opportunity make tortillas or something . Same thing Ive been wondering with the Africans and mid-easterners in Euro that only seem to know how to rape and sell drugs. Then the vast majority of SE/Asians filipino / vietnamese / chinese just do a bunch of work and adapt. not all but very different rates by statistics . Something is wrong with some cultures but in todays "sensitive" (censored) world that can not be discussed either, ...so everyone fed up votes for racists that just prefer to cut away all immigration lol. Real Americans are the native Americans aka. American Indians Donald's family is also Euro heritage...
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033830#post59033830)
I have had serious consequences just because I voted for Trump. I lost my girlfriend and my sex/ love life with her based on a vote I made.
LMAO
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031157#post59031157)
"I didn't think the face-eating leopard would eat MY face," says all the dumbass, fascist, racist poker players on 2+2 who voted for Trump.Because it wasn't enough to call your Congressmen over ICE kidnappings, people losing their health care, billionaires getting tax breaks while poor people's taxes go UP, a criminal President, a compromised Supreme Court, concentration camps ... See full post
You voted for Kamala who is incompetent right? I am not a racist or a dumbass at all I voted for the superior candidate. Joe Biden got old so the Democrat party had Kamala there who wasn't the answer at all. What was your solution in this from the beginning? You want to divide the United States based on what? Hilary Clinton was a demon so I voted for Trump vs her as well. Why would you vote for Kamala Harris?
LOL he willingly posted that 😃
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033841#post59033841)
LOL he willingly posted that 😃
The sad thing is I am having buyers remorse with Trump and my girlfriend dumped me because of it. She stone walled me along with not having sex with me. How can things get better on these basis? The divide that is happening is real because people hate Trump which I understand. It shouldn't be an end all be all type thinking should it? I just don't understand why people get so angry when I say what I feel? What would be better if Kamala was President?
by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033824#post59033824)
Annual basis (calendar year), just like all taxes; aggregate of your wins vs. losses for the year. And zero impact on cash games for the most part except for that very tiny sliver of players who actually claim all their cash winnings/losses on their taxes.
Thank you!
First they came for the immigrants. Then disabled people. Then trans people. Then the working classes. Then government workers. Then the Palestinians and the Iranians. But I’ll be damned if they touch our poker players.
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033846#post59033846)
The sad thing is I am having buyers remorse with Trump and my girlfriend dumped me because of it. She stone walled me along with not having sex with me.
Should have voted Kamala
by DoyleBrunsonFan m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033690#post59033690)
Apparently some chud named Crapo
Yes. It was Mike Crapo (R-Idaho).
by PenelopeCruz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033359#post59033359)
seems like professional tournament poker or any form of online grinding will be untenable. Only reason live cash players might be ok is because they likely don't report correctly. Definitely sad, and another example of how our legislators are terrible. Still a godsend that we didn't elect a cackling ****** with no business running anything let along being POTUS. Anyone upset sh... See full post
Interesting to see an actual delusional ****** in the wild. Like you're not trolling. Yes, obviously it is the fault of the OTHER party what THIS party is doing. Next time you think about talking politics, go watch peppa pig instead.
by Calm Down m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033866#post59033866)
Interesting to see an actual delusional ****** in the wild. Like you're not trolling. Yes, obviously it is the fault of the OTHER party what THIS party is doing. Next time you think about talking politics, go watch peppa pig instead.
😃
As far as being a American from California what is the solution? What can I do to make an effort to help poker and the community? I am going to make some phone calls today or Monday to say how I feel. That is all I can do really. I don't have any power or say in the matter. I run on logic and reasoning not sarcasms and banter. How can we battle this as a community is what I am wondering.
What's the consensus on the impact of this bill for professionals? Seems like a lot of conflicting or at least confusing information flying around. I saw someone mention online cash pros (in addition to tournament players) won't be able to net losses anymore, and then there was the post about part 165 not applying to pros. The fact someone took the time to put this change in the bill is crazy. It's also absolutely ridiculous that a professional player wouldn't be able to net their losses ... what other business or profession isn't allowed to net profits and losses? Ridiculous.
by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033285#post59033285)
I sent her an email tis morning and she was pretty quick to respond with about the same message.
Cool
by ten25 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033880#post59033880)
What's the consensus on the impact of this bill for professionals? Seems like a lot of conflicting or at least confusing information flying around. I saw someone mention online cash pros (in addition to tournament players) won't be able to net losses anymore, and then there was the post about part 165 not applying to pros. The fact someone took the time to put this change in th... See full post
It is quite absurd. I was at a bar last night and people (who don't play poker) were asking me about it, and I have found I can cut through the muck with a simple example: "Say you enter 5 tournaments at $10K apiece, and you cash in one of them for $50K. So, $50K in, $50K out and you net exactly zero dollars. Under this law, you now owe the government taxes on $5K that you never received."
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033846#post59033846)
What would be better if Kamala was President?
Poker players and gamblers wouldn't be complaining in this thread about GOP Rep Crapo. The president wouldn't have a meme coin. The president wouldn't have accepted a plane from Qatar. The national guard and military wouldn't be attacking Americans in America. We wouldn't have threatened to annex: Canada, Panama, Greenland. There wouldn't be tariffs. The dollar would be worth 10% more. We wouldn't be giving the richest tax breaks. A lot of government functions would still exist. ... A person could really go on forever. Here's an interesting anecdote: Did you know in the white house there's a wall with the previous first ladies? Trump has replaced Hillary's portrait with a poster of himself. You seem to lack the ability to comprehend reality. A Mormon from Idaho added crap to a **** burger that the guy you voted for signed into law. Maybe you should abstain from entertainment media for a few months and work on controlling your ego?
It's always funny to see how little people understand about tax law. So many people, including Phil Galfond, saying people will just move to "offshore" sites. This makes little to no sense. First, gambling winnings on offshore sites are taxable, just the same as regulated sites. You are still technically required to report the income. So you re not avoiding having to pay tax. Second, if you do chose to underreport gambling income on your tax return (which the vast majority of gamblers already do), there is no difference in betting on regulated vs offshore sites (EXCEPT FOR POKER TOURNAMENTS). Regulated sportsbooks and online poker rooms (cash games) do not report to the IRS. You are not gaining any advantage playing offshore. Either way, income is not being reported to the IRS, and it's up to you to accurately report, or not report, your income. Online poker tournaments are the exception, where regulated sites do report tournament winnings over $5K.
by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033889#post59033889)
It is quite absurd. I was at a bar last night and people (who don't play poker) were asking me about it, and I have found I can cut through the muck with a simple example: "Say you enter 5 tournaments at $10K apiece, and you cash in one of them for $50K. So, $50K in, $50K out and you net exactly zero dollars. Under this law, you now owe the government taxes on $5K that you ... See full post
This part makes sense, and I understand that, I'm confused why people are saying cash games are different though (assuming they're not saying to go under the radar). What if you play from abroad? Wouldn't the foreign earned income exclusion take care of this problem, since the first $120K+ is not taxed? I know you still have to pay payroll (ss+medicare) on foreign income, though.
I see a growing Independent Party awakening...?
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033837#post59033837)
You voted for Kamala who is incompetent right? I am not a racist or a dumbass at all I voted for the superior candidate. Joe Biden got old so the Democrat party had Kamala there who wasn't the answer at all. What was your solution in this from the beginning? You want to divide the United States based on what? Hilary Clinton was a demon so I voted for Trump vs her as well. ... See full post
Wow, americans truly are the dumbest ****ing people. Let's see, short list of **** Trump's done so far. Crypto pump and dumps. Accepting bribes (plane). Giving Elon Musk access to government data. Huge layoffs of governmental workers. Pushed authoritarian power consolidation. Pulled out of Paris climate agreement. Siccing ICE goons to abduct people, illegal immigrants and US citizens. Pardon Jan 6 rioters. Revoke security clearance for "enemies". This list could be much longer if we wanted to list every single thing, but there are perhaps the grossest things so far. If you think any of these things are ok, I recommend you first go **** yourself. Then I recommend you watch a documentary on democracy and fascism. You could also read a book, but you seem like an idiot, so that might be asking too much from you.
Someone can do the maths for a cash game player who cash in 500k year and cash out 600k (profit 100k/year) ? I'm not sure to understand. What will be the taxes for a self-employed poker pro in that situation with BBB and without BBB ? Thanks
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033846#post59033846)
The sad thing is I am having buyers remorse with Trump and my girlfriend dumped me because of it. She stone walled me along with not having sex with me. How can things get better on these basis? The divide that is happening is real because people hate Trump which I understand. It shouldn't be an end all be all type thinking should it? I just don't understand why people get... See full post
It's honestly wild that you're surprised your girlfriend was upset. You're backing a movement that treats The Handmaid's Tale like a blueprint, not a warning—and then wondering why people don't want to sleep with you?
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033837#post59033837)
You voted for Kamala who is incompetent right? I am not a racist or a dumbass at all I voted for the superior candidate. Joe Biden got old so the Democrat party had Kamala there who wasn't the answer at all. What was your solution in this from the beginning? You want to divide the United States based on what? Hilary Clinton was a demon so I voted for Trump vs her as well. ... See full post
Well you're not going to like the response.... but we've never had a bigger educational divide in voting patterns in US history than we do right now. Harris probably won voters who can integrate by parts by close to 20 and Trump won voters that can't tell you the odds of a coin landing heads 3 times in a row. If I was a non "dumbass" who thought Trump was superior to Harris, I'd definitely have thought of this phenomenon before the election and have a better explanation than "sometimes idiots get it right'.
by mh1216 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033908#post59033908)
It's always funny to see how little people understand about tax law. So many people, including Phil Galfond, saying people will just move to "offshore" sites. This makes little to no sense. First, gambling winnings on offshore sites are taxable, just the same as regulated sites. You are still technically required to report the income. So you re not avoiding having to pay tax. S... See full post
What happens if they say back players from another country for example in London or something? I wonder if we’ll just see a lot of stables popping up because of it: technically they themselves won’t be gambling so perhaps they just have to put their hat up on this one. It seems like a really bad time for poker in general really other than live games but then I assume they’ll just stop existing in America right?
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033480#post59033480)
The American Gaming Association is only interesting in people losing money in their casinos. If the changes in the tax law drive away winning players, they would be all for that.
Not so sure about that. My parents are casino addicts, they go 3x a week for a couple hours each time and make 4 trips to Vegas a year with their comps. I'm guessing they lose 50k or so a year combined. Dad plays 99% payback video poker and Mom 90% or so payback slots. They bet fairly big so they're receiving w2g's quite often. Dad does taxes fairly diligently so understands what's going on here. His initial reaction to the bill was "I guess our gambling days are over". Not sure what figures my Dad is getting, but let's say he has $140k in winnings and $141k in losses. He owed nothing before, now he can only claim about $127k in losses and owes taxes on $13k he didn't even earn. I'm skeptical that they'll quit though given that they already know they're burning through mid 5-figures a year, so what's a few extra k in taxes? But I think it's crazy to think that this won't have some affect. To be fair though, I'd imagine most people in Vegas aren't filing taxes or have no idea what they're doing on their taxes. What I suspect will happen is that a bunch will offset their reported winnings with the same # of losses and the receive a surprise in April 2027 when they find out that their losses are amended to 90% and they owe taxes on the difference. That's assuming this tax stays in place as is almost 2 years from now.
by Fore m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032979#post59032979)
You would be amazed at how many people who get W2Gs and are eligible but don’t even claim the deduction they are entitled to. Anyone think this will have any impact on recreational gamblers, particularly slot degens, is simply crazy. Those folks don’t consider taxes while slapping that button.
I'd be shocked if they don't unless they can't because of the standard deduction. I've heard recs win Bad beat jackpots for 50-100k saying how they're gonna collect losing horse sports betting lotto tickets to offset that. They seriously think the IRS is gonna believe they made 100k in bets and lost every single one.
by Fossilkid93 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033950#post59033950)
Not so sure about that.My parents are casino addicts, they go 3x a week for a couple hours each time and make 4 trips to Vegas a year with their comps. I'm guessing they lose 50k or so a year combined.Dad plays 99% payback video poker and Mom 90% or so payback slots. They bet fairly big so they're receiving w2g's quite often.Dad does taxes fairly diligently so understands wha... See full post
If your parents are losing 50k gambling per year, they shouldn’t have 140k in winnings and 141k in losses. They shouldn’t have like 140k in winnings and 190k in losses, so their 90% of their losses should easily cover their winnings. For this to be an issue, they’d need to have at least 500k in winnings. Which most professional gamblers will have but recreationals will not. Now, maybe this could be an issue if they have a particularly lucky year and only lose 1k like you describe. But in that case, they’ve budgeted for $50k in losses that they didn’t lose, so they can probably afford the ~3k tax bill they will receive on their winnings. I’m not defending they law here, I just think it’s not going to influence the decisions on 99% recreational gamblers. Maybe it will if they think through the math of it really hard, but if they were doing this, they probably wouldn’t be losing so much money gambling in the first place.
We may have our own problems and god do we have some but it's never as bad as being an American. Sincerely, **** all of you who voted for this idiot and may your lives get infinitely worse in the next 3.5 years.
by Fossilkid93 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033950#post59033950)
Not so sure about that.My parents are casino addicts, they go 3x a week for a couple hours each time and make 4 trips to Vegas a year with their comps. I'm guessing they lose 50k or so a year combined.Dad plays 99% payback video poker and Mom 90% or so payback slots. They bet fairly big so they're receiving w2g's quite often.Dad does taxes fairly diligently so understands wha... See full post
Conclusion: Mom and Dad are going to save $50K a year...which is...a...bad..........thing???
To all the trump voters in this thread , who are still too stupid to figure it out, **** you all. The time to fight fascists, is before they take power. Sleep well knowing you ****ed yourself along with the rest of us. This ride isn’t over and won’t be for a long time. GG America.
What I’ve learned from the poker community: Cheat with RTA? Scumbag. Cheat Uncle Sam by fudging cash game records? Genius. Y’all are real patriots. Be a shame if PokerAnalytics had a little data incident and the IRS played the river. P.S. That’s a Ukraine flag at the top of the webpage, MAGA.
by ecriture d'adulte m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033940#post59033940)
Well you're not going to like the response.... but we've never had a bigger educational divide in voting patterns in US history than we do right now. Harris probably won voters who can integrate by parts by close to 20 and Trump won voters that can't tell you the odds of a coin landing heads 3 times in a row. If I was a non "dumbass" who thought Trump was superior to Harris... See full post
by Kosmo2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033986#post59033986)
To all the trump voters in this thread , who are still too stupid to figure it out, **** you all. The time to fight fascists, is before they take power. Sleep well knowing you ****ed yourself along with the rest of us. This ride isn’t over and won’t be for a long time. GG America.
LOL you brainwashed dems/libs are too much! If anyone "F'd" you, it was yourselves😃
Don't worry guys, this is just a 10% tariff on your loss deductions... This will have the most impact on high buy-in tournaments in the US, anything above 10K will have to be carefully calculated, even more with reentries and rebuys. Will this be just for fiscal residents in the USA or for every player/entry in a tournament? If it's the first case, then most highrollers will move to Canada or Mexico like they did in 2011. If it's the latter then tournaments in the USA will become a lot less profitable, especially in highrollers where ROI aren't very high.
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033786#post59033786)
I am having buyers remorse as being a trump supporter. My former girlfriend tried to get me to vote for Kamala but I didn't want to. She told me "vote for Kamala do it for your niece". She was trying to manipulate my vote. She then stone walled me and withheld sex and communication with me based on me not wanting to vote for Kamala. If you voted for Trump you can't win bec... See full post
Ironic she withheld from you isn't it since that's how her girl Kamala started her political rise by sleeping with someone older than her father lol. Hopefully you threw her in the gutter without a second thought
wow, great morning. any pics of the ex kev?
Hey everyone! I broke down exactly how much Taxes US players will have to pay. There's hope.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033973#post59033973)
If your parents are losing 50k gambling per year, they shouldn’t have 140k in winnings and 141k in losses. They shouldn’t have like 140k in winnings and 190k in losses, so their 90% of their losses should easily cover their winnings.
While his numbers don't match, your understanding is incorrect. It doesn't say you can deduct 90% of your total losses. It says your deduction is capped at 90% of your total winnings. Let's say you play poker and report your **** correctly, you might have $200k total in winning days, and $100k total in losing days, making your net profit $100k, but you can only deduct 90% of those losses now, forcing you to pay taxes on a phantom $10k of profit. You'll be taxed on $110k rather than your actual profit of 100k. Similarly, if someone plays the slots and they have $100k in winning days, and $100k in losing days, they will owe taxes on $10k, because they can only deduct 90%. Change the numbers, say their total wins are $100k, and losses are $130k, they can only deduct losses up to 90% of their wins, so 90k, leaving them with a $10k tax bill despite losing $30k.
by Rahm93 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033818#post59033818)
How does the taxation work in practice? Cashes are earnings and buyins are losses to be deducted which is understandable in MTTs but how does it work for cash games? On a refill basis, session basis, daily basis?
I didn’t see that anyone had actually addressed this questions. Gambling wins or losses are supposed to be recorded per session. So if you play a session of cash game poker and cash out for more than you bought in for, you have a taxable gambling win. If you cash out for less than you bought in for, you have a deductible gambling loss.
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034049#post59034049)
While his numbers don't match, your understanding is incorrect.It doesn't say you can deduct 90% of your total losses. It says your deduction is capped at 90% of your total winnings.Let's say you play poker and report your **** correctly, you might have $200k total in winning days, and $100k total in losing days, making your net profit $100k, but you can only deduct 90% of tho... See full post
You have this backwards and are wrong
by Pablito m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033979#post59033979)
We may have our own problems and god do we have some but it's never as bad as being an American. Sincerely, **** all of you who voted for this idiot and may your lives get infinitely worse in the next 3.5 years.
That's why I am at a loss for words as to why so many people try to come to America, legally or otherwise. Why are they choosing to come here? Why not in a country like Canada or Denmark, both of which have universal healthcare and aren't racist. People call me MAGA for telling immigrants to choose a country that isn't a privatized shithole but I don't care. Horseshoe theory I guess.
Note that according to the math, Online players will be hit 5-10x as hard as Live players. Effectively, the new tax increase is equivalent to roughly +1bb/100 in rake. Live players are making 20/100+, but online regs only make 3-6. If curious about math, ping me and I'll teach you how to calculate for yourself. Things like winrate, game variance, tax rate matter. But for NLHE, it's gonna be between extra 0.75-1.5bb/100. Definitely not career-ending for most live NLHE players.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031157#post59031157)
"I didn't think the face-eating leopard would eat MY face," says all the dumbass, fascist, racist poker players on 2+2 who voted for Trump.Because it wasn't enough to call your Congressmen over ICE kidnappings, people losing their health care, billionaires getting tax breaks while poor people's taxes go UP, a criminal President, a compromised Supreme Court, concentration camps ... See full post
"ICE kidnappings" is a really weird way to say "arresting criminals guilty of immigration fraud." Maybe spending all of your time inside posting 71,000+ comments on this husk of a website wasn't good for your mental health. by Calm Down m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033931#post59033931)
Wow, americans truly are the dumbest ****ing people.Let's see, short list of **** Trump's done so far.Crypto pump and dumps.Accepting bribes (plane).Giving Elon Musk access to government data.Huge layoffs of governmental workers.Pushed authoritarian power consolidation.Pulled out of Paris climate agreement.Siccing ICE goons to abduct people, illegal immigrants and US citizens.P... See full post
This was just last week alone: Surgically destroyed Iran's nuclear facilities
Success at NATO summit - Countries upping their contributions from 2% of GDP to 5%
Trade deal with China - Their tariffs reduced to 10%
Canada abandons their digital services tax
Markets rebounded, with record highs for the S&P 500 and Nasdaq
Inflation down to 2.4%, down from 7% and the lowest its been in 4 years
Gas prices down to the lowest they've been in 4 years
A dozen eggs now $2.52, down from $6.22
Largest blue collar wage growth in three generations at 1.7%
Illegal crossings down to 282 a day, a drop of 93% year-over-year
Lowest number of migrant crossings since the 1960s
SCOTUS rules district judges injunctions were unconstitutional
Ceasefire: Israel and Iran
Ceasefire: Congo and Rwanda
Well done on picking the name "Calm Down" for yourself, though. You were definitely calm when you cobbled together a list of completely aimless, incoherent things, half of which aren't true and the other half having absolutely zero negative connotations to people based in reality. You're so rabid that you don't even know what you're angry about anymore. by Kosmo2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033986#post59033986)
To all the trump voters in this thread , who are still too stupid to figure it out, **** you all. The time to fight fascists, is before they take power. Sleep well knowing you ****ed yourself along with the rest of us. This ride isn’t over and won’t be for a long time. GG America.
Nope, pretty sure you ****ed yourself when choosing $1/$2 instead of an actual career path in life to pay your utility bills. But tell me more about the death of America while you cheat taxes and claim victimhood like a ****.
You can’t kill poker if it’s dead already in most parts of the world: it is what it is. Move on from it like everyone else has had to. I may not have been a professional on the other bad days that poker has had but I do remember them well and how much it affected others: there’s definitely in poker a policy where everyone assumes everything is fine because no one is talking about it. I feel like, unfortunately, too many don’t care until it’s too late. May I remind you that most of the world knew how much of an own goal this administration would be, however I didn’t expect for them to come after their own fanbase but quite frankly the whole world has years left of this administration. The UK has a lot of its own problems but they do pale in comparison to what you’re currently dealing with. I wish all the Americans all the best with their future endeavours but to put it bluntly it is likely that the poker bubble has burst again it is what it is.
Oh, and solid, unbiased moderation, 2+2. Happy to see the "no politics on the forum" decree magically disappear when they're politics you agree with. I also wanted to personally congratulate you on ending the conflict in Ukraine by displaying their flag in the banner of your website for the past three years. Your Nobel Peace Prize should be arriving in 2-4 weeks.
by CrazyAndy27s m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034066#post59034066)
You can’t kill poker if it’s dead already in most parts of the world: it is what it is. Move on from it like everyone else has had to.I may not have been a professional on the other bad days that poker has had but I do remember them well and how much it affected others: there’s definitely in poker a policy where everyone assumes everything is fine because no one is talking abou... See full post
Yeah, I'd pretty confidently argue that migrants receiving less time in jail for stabbing children to death than people arrested for posting memes on Facebook about illegal immigration is a significantly bigger problem than ANYTHING in the US right now, but don't let the inconvenient facts get in the way of your virtue signaling or anything.
by SweetFaceMaskIke m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034063#post59034063)
Surgically destroyed Iran's nuclear facilities
Success at NATO summit - Countries upping their contributions from 2% of GDP to 5%
Trade deal with China - Their tariffs reduced to 10%
Canada abandons their digital services tax
Markets rebounded, with record highs for the S&P 500 and Nasdaq
Inflation down to 2.4%, down from 7% and the lowest its been in 4 years
Gas prices down to the lowest they've been in 4 years
A dozen eggs now $2.52, down from $6.22
Largest blue collar wage growth in three generations at 1.7%
Illegal crossings down to 282 a day, a drop of 93% year-over-year
Lowest number of migrant crossings since the 1960s
SCOTUS rules district judges injunctions were unconstitutional
Ceasefire: Israel and Iran
Ceasefire: Congo and Rwanda
Well done on picking the name "Calm Down" for yourself, though. You were definitely calm when you cobbled together a list of completely aimless, incoherent things, half of which aren't true and the other half having absolutely zero negative connotations to people based in reality. You're so rabid that you don't even know what you're angry about anymore.
Lol @ markets rebounding. They are manipulating markets to make themselves rich, idiot. Also reducing the tariffs that Trump placed on China. Genius. Let's add that to my list too. Placing tariffs on almost the entire world, except notably Russia. Nice job. Why dont you explain all the things that aren't true, according to you? Or don't, it's clear you are a maga lunatic. You could eat diarrhea straight from Trumps ass and call it chocolate.
by savantpoker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034062#post59034062)
Note that according to the math, Online players will be hit 5-10x as hard as Live players.Effectively, the new tax increase is equivalent to roughly +1bb/100 in rake. Live players are making 20/100+, but online regs only make 3-6.If curious about math, ping me and I'll teach you how to calculate for yourself. Things like winrate, game variance, tax rate matter. But for NLHE, it... See full post
In cash games you could always do some creative math to offset the 10%, it's a moot point. The problem is with every kind of tournament especially high buyin ones.
by mh1216 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034057#post59034057)
You have this backwards and are wrong
You need to put more effort into research or comprehension, probably both.
SEC. 70114. EXTENSION AND MODIFICATION OF LIMITATION ON WAGERING
LOSSES.
(a) In General.--Section 165 is amended by striking subsection (d)
and inserting the following:
(d) Wagering Losses.-- (1) In general.--For purposes of losses from wagering
transactions, the amount allowed as a deduction for any taxable
year--
(A) shall be equal to 90 percent of the amount of such losses during such taxable year, and (B) shall be allowed only to the extent of the
gains from such transactions during such taxable year.
``(2) Special rule.--For purposes of paragraph (1), the
term `losses from wagering transactions' includes any deduction
otherwise allowable under this chapter incurred in carrying on
any wagering transaction.''.
(b) Effective Date.--The amendment made by this section shall apply
to taxable years beginning after December 31, 2025.
by LegendaryLurker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033372#post59033372)
PSA for the poker world: IRS Form 3949-A exists for a reason. If someone’s bragging about not reporting or under reporting cash game wins, you don’t have to stay quiet. You can stay anon. Form 3949-A = anonymous, no reward Form 211 = not anonymous, potential reward
good idea. narc on people so political grifters have more money to punt on pointless wars and killing people for no reason.
Pretty sure my neighbor's parents died because of the Qatar gifted plane to Trump. But they were bad people according to neighbor, so it's a conflicting issue.
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034096#post59034096)
You need to put more effort into research or comprehension, probably both.SEC. 70114. EXTENSION AND MODIFICATION OF LIMITATION ON WAGERING LOSSES. (a) In General.--Section 165 is amended by striking subsection (d) and inserting the following: (d) Wagering Losses.-- (1) In general.--For purposes of losses from wagering transactions, the... See full post
Lol "It doesn't say you can deduct 90% of your total losses. It says your deduction is capped at 90% of your total winnings." is what you posted Again, this is backwards, and wrong
by Phil9 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033780#post59033780)
Which would be even worse since he’s signing the bill.
The last President to read every page of a bill he signed was Mallard Fillmore.
by mh1216 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034121#post59034121)
Lol "It doesn't say you can deduct 90% of your total losses. It says your deduction is capped at 90% of your total winnings." is what you posted Again, this is backwards, and wrong
This is my interpretation as I read it: If you have $100,000 in losses, you can claim up to $90,000 in losses for tax purposes, provided you have at least $90,000 in winnings. So, if you have $100,000 in actual losses and: $50,000 in winnings, you can claim $50,000 in losses and net gambling income of $0 $80,000 in winnings, you can claim $80,000 in losses and net gambling income of $0 $90,000 in winnings, you can claim $90,000 in losses and net gambling income of $0 $100,000 in winnings, you can claim $90,000 in losses and net gambling income of $10,000 $120,000 in winnings, you can claim $90,000 in losses and net gambling income of $30,000 ...and so on. Yes? If no, then please give concrete examples instead of just telling everyone they are wrong.
by JustASpectator m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034131#post59034131)
This is my interpretation as I read it:If you have $100,000 in losses, you can claim up to $90,000 in losses for tax purposes, provided you have at least $90,000 in winnings.So, if you have $100,000 in actual losses and:$50,000 in winnings, you can claim $50,000 in losses and net gambling income of $0$80,000 in winnings, you can claim $80,000 in losses and net gambling income o... See full post
Correct, you can deduct 90% of losses, up to 100% of wins
by mh1216 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033908#post59033908)
It's always funny to see how little people understand about tax law. So many people, including Phil Galfond, saying people will just move to "offshore" sites. This makes little to no sense. First, gambling winnings on offshore sites are taxable, just the same as regulated sites. You are still technically required to report the income. So you re not avoiding having to pay tax. S... See full post
he's 100 percent right. i'd be shocked if in a few years sports betting and poker sites don't have w2gs or some sort of tax forms for gambling wins and losses making it way easier for the gov't to track everything. of course letter of the law you're right but in practice people will use offshore sites/ bookies and use crypto/cash which is way harder to track than bank deposits and withdrawals. Even you yourself mention poker tournaments. ACR isn't sending out tax forms for cashes over the threshold (5k profit I think) the legal sites are.
by mh1216 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034121#post59034121)
Lol "It doesn't say you can deduct 90% of your total losses. It says your deduction is capped at 90% of your total winnings." is what you posted Again, this is backwards, and wrong
You're being a dick, while being clearly and obviously wrong. I get it though, you have comprehension issues.
Let me help, I'll chew the food for you.
To the extent of such gains does not mean "Only if you're winning". As gamblers, according to the IRS you must log your daily wins and losses, even a slot player would be required to itemize if they want to deduct their losses legally.
So daily sessions mean if you gambled 10 days in a year, with 3 winning days and 7 losing days. On your winning days you net $100k, on your losing days you lost $150k, well, you can deduct $90k of that.
If you're still confused, read this again, read any article on the subject, consult your favorite AI, or sacrifice a goat to whatever God you serve and ask for clarity.
(d) Wagering Losses.-- (1) In general.--For purposes of losses from wagering
transactions, the amount allowed as a deduction for any taxable
year--
(A) shall be equal to 90 percent of the amount of such losses during such taxable year, and (B) shall be allowed only to the extent of the
gains from such transactions during such taxable year.
by LegendaryLurker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033989#post59033989)
What I’ve learned from the poker community: Cheat with RTA? Scumbag. Cheat Uncle Sam by fudging cash game records? Genius. Y’all are real patriots. Be a shame if PokerAnalytics had a little data incident and the IRS played the river. P.S. That’s a Ukraine flag at the top of the webpage, MAGA.
you should pay your taxes to avoid getting in serious trouble. but lmao@ trying to make it a moral issue. these crooks are bought and paid for corporate schills who tax spend and print money with no accountability.
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034049#post59034049)
While his numbers don't match, your understanding is incorrect.It doesn't say you can deduct 90% of your total losses. It says your deduction is capped at 90% of your total winnings.Let's say you play poker and report your **** correctly, you might have $200k total in winning days, and $100k total in losing days, making your net profit $100k, but you can only deduct 90% of tho... See full post
Not a 10k tax bill in this case. A tax bill on 10k in income which is very different.
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034143#post59034143)
You're being a dick, while being clearly and obviously wrong. I get it though, you have comprehension issues.Let me help, I'll chew the food for you.To the extent of such gains does not mean "Only if you're winning". As gamblers, according to the IRS you must log your daily wins and losses, even a slot player would be required to itemize if they want to deduct their losses le... See full post
You can deduct 90% of losses, up to 100% of wins. Your deduction is not capped at 90% of wins. There is a difference. In your example, you would be allowed a deduction of $100K. I probably did come off as a dick at first. Apologies. But you are overcomplicating things. You need to just go back and read through what you yourself are posting. If you lose $150K, the amount you can deduct is $135K, up to the amount of winnings, or in your example $100K.
None of any of this affects me in any way, but I don't understand how the wording is being interpreted as it is. It says "to the extent of the gains", not "to the extent of 90% of the gains". If you lose 130K, you can deduct up to 90%*130K = 117K OR the amount of your gains (wins), whichever is smaller.
Ya it isn't capped at 90% of wins. 2 scenarios: 1.) $100,000 won and lost $110,000 in a year would only be permitted to claim $99,000 in deductible losses, meaning they would have a taxable income of $1,000 even though they did not net profit on their wagers. 2.) $110,00 won and lost $100,000 in a year, their taxable profit would be $20,000 (a 100% increase).
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034143#post59034143)
You're being a dick, while being clearly and obviously wrong. I get it though, you have comprehension issues.Let me help, I'll chew the food for you.To the extent of such gains does not mean "Only if you're winning". As gamblers, according to the IRS you must log your daily wins and losses, even a slot player would be required to itemize if they want to deduct their losses le... See full post
Your interpretation is not right under the clear language of the law. You can deduct (A) “90 percent of the amount up losses”; seperately (B) “only to the extent of gains”. So you take 90 percent of your losses. If this number is greater than (100% of) your gains, you owe nothing from gambling. If this number is less than your gains, you owe tax on the difference. In the example you gave, where you have $150k in losses, you can deduct $135k of this. If you only have $100k in gains, you can only deduct up to $100k. But you still owe zero tax from gambling (assuming you itemize, which in this case, you certainly would).
by mh1216 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034153#post59034153)
You can deduct 90% of losses, up to 100% of wins. Your deduction is not capped at 90% of wins. There is a difference. In your example, you would be allowed a deduction of $100K. I probably did come off as a dick at first. Apologies. But you are overcomplicating things. You need to just go back and read through what you yourself are posting.If you lose $150K, the amount you can ... See full post
Apologies for being a dick on my end as well. Bills are intentionally confusing, but section (B) directs you to apply the calculation on your gains, not on your losses. So instead of $135k being the number in your example, while that is 90% of your losses, the 90% rule is applied to your gains. This is why everyone is up in arms over phantom income. Because you lose, but you still have to pay. It's going over how your deduction is applied, it's a 90% deduction, and it's applied to the extent of your gains. Meaning it's calculated based on your gains number, prior to any losses being factored in. You have 100k wins, you have 150k losses, the 90% is applied on the 100k. You have $10k income for tax purposes.
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034197#post59034197)
Apologies for being a dick on my end as well. Bills are intentionally confusing, but section (B) directs you to apply the calculation on your gains, not on your losses. So instead of $135k being the number in your example, while that is 90% of your losses, the 90% rule is applied to your gains.
No, it doesn’t. Section A allows a deduction of up to 90% of your losses. Section B caps this amount at your total gains. At no point does it say anything about 90% of your gains.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034209#post59034209)
No, it doesn’t. Section A allows a deduction of up to 90% of your losses. Section B caps this amount at your total gains. At no point does it say anything about 90% of your gains.
[]``(1) In general.--For purposes of losses from wagering []transactions, the amount allowed as a deduction for any taxable [*]year--
-- Losses from wagering transactions, the amount allowed as a deduction is... ``(A) shall be equal to 90 percent of the amount of such losses during such taxable year, and
-- 90% of such losses during a year (Not 100%) ``(B) shall be allowed only to the extent of the gains from such transactions during such taxable year.
--- The 90% deduction shall be allowed only to the extent of such gains. It is calculated off of gains, not your total losses. 90% of your gains. That's the rule. You can think of how it's applied now as well. It's 100% right now up to the extent of gains. That's how you deduct. This changes is to 90%.
by savantpoker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034062#post59034062)
Note that according to the math, Online players will be hit 5-10x as hard as Live players.Effectively, the new tax increase is equivalent to roughly +1bb/100 in rake. Live players are making 20/100+, but online regs only make 3-6.If curious about math, ping me and I'll teach you how to calculate for yourself. Things like winrate, game variance, tax rate matter. But for NLHE, it... See full post
Can a cash game player who is qualified to use schedule "C" still use allowable expenses to reduce and/or eliminate altogether any tax liabilities? Example under the new rules: Winnings = $12000 Losses = $9000 --> Limited to 90% so now $8100 Net = $12000 - $8100 = $3900 Say one has additional benefits of High Hands and/or other promotions of $2500 Revised Taxable Amount = $3900 + $2500 = $6400 Schedule "C" allows certain things (like driving) to be claimed as expenses. If one drives 15000 miles per year (exclusive to poker activity) and the current year's rates are $0.60 per mile, one would have $9000 in expenses to off-set any taxable income. In this specific case, $9000 is greater than $6400, so one would have no tax liability from poker, correct?
by SweetFaceMaskIke m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034069#post59034069)
Oh, and solid, unbiased moderation, 2+2. Happy to see the "no politics on the forum" decree magically disappear when they're politics you agree with. I also wanted to personally congratulate you on ending the conflict in Ukraine by displaying their flag in the banner of your website for the past three years. Your Nobel Peace Prize should be arriving in 2-4 weeks.
Somehow a Trump supporter being unable to properly use ''their'' and ''they're'' is not so surprising anymore.
Watching everyone fight back and forth instead of organize against the government clearly dividing them. This is very sad. It’s not just trump it’s the entire system. Bought and paid for shills of corporations and lobbyists making laws we can’t vote on, changing their own tax liabilities while scrutinizing the stay at home moms 600$ Venmo transfers. **** these goons. It’s absolutely horrible to watch everyone fight EACH OTHER while they sit in ivory towers casting spells on us via social media and news and movies. This is US vs Them. Not R vs D but human vs political scum. I’ll see you in the gulag.
by TheCake m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034229#post59034229)
Watching everyone fight back and forth instead of organize against the government clearly dividing them. This is very sad. It’s not just trump it’s the entire system. Bought and paid for shills of corporations and lobbyists making laws we can’t vote on, changing their own tax liabilities while scrutinizing the stay at home moms 600$ Venmo transfers. **** th... See full post
We can't organize and unify against the government unless some ground truths are accepted. A Republican House, Republican Senate, and Republican White House wrote this bill and pushed it through. Every single Democrat voted against it. It's delusional to make a "both sides are screwing us over" argument when one side voted for a bill that's an existential threat to poker, and the other side unanimously voted against it. Unity and organization would mean rallying behind politicians who are opposed to this, in this case it's democrats. What's stopping unity and organization is not bickering, but the delusions and derangements of members of the cult of Trump, who simply refuse to believe their lying eyes when the evidence is right in front of them that Republicans ****ed us over and Democrats tried to stop it. If you want unity and organization, then you need to rally behind politicians who are in your corner, which is the Democrats. But you don't want unity and organization, you are part of a cult where the Democrats are always in the wrong, even when objective reality defies you. We can't have unity and organization if a significant percentage of the people we're trying to organize are part of a deranged cult where they pick delusions and feelings over objective facts. The ultimate irony of your call to organize and not let us get divided is that your argument is itself very divisive, arguing that we should still be divided amongst "both sides", when in reality one side voted unanimously to stop this problem and one side voted almost unanimously to push it through. Arguing "both sides are bad" is both untrue and itself highly divisive.
I was gonna buy Barts training course to improve my game but now I don’t see a point in trying to be a winning player anymore
And if you want example of elites sitting in ivory towers laughing at us bickering, it's the American Gaming Association who posted on Twitter that the Big Beautiful Bill was such great news. Why would they do that if the wagering tax would obviously hurt their industry? Cause they're otherwise thrilled because uber-wealthy own casinos and uber-wealthy got a huge tax break. And the uber-wealthy are friends with Trump. EVEN THE POKER NEWS article on this mentions that people think the wagering tax might get rewritten because casino owners are friends with Trump. If you want to see where the elites in Ivory Towers are looking down laughing at us, it's Republican donors who bought Republicans politicians to push through this bill. It's not "both sides", they're all Republican. Democrats unamimously voted against screwing over players. Republicans almost unaminously voted for screwing over poker players. **** out of here with the "both sides" garbage and get some counseiling help in getting out of your cult where you let Trump piss in your face and your response is to say both sides are causing it to rain.
by TheCake m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034229#post59034229)
Watching everyone fight back and forth instead of organize against the government clearly dividing them. This is very sad. It’s not just trump it’s the entire system. Bought and paid for shills of corporations and lobbyists making laws we can’t vote on, changing their own tax liabilities while scrutinizing the stay at home moms 600$ Venmo transfers. **** th... See full post
This is true for most countries btw. Politicians are horrible everywhere. One can make the case that in Singapore they've been consistently good for decades, but it's the exception to the rule. Even Milei and Bukele that have been good in a few important parameters, raise doubts/questions in several subjects.
by Manner Please m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034249#post59034249)
We can't organize and unify against the government unless some ground truths are accepted.A Republican House, Republican Senate, and Republican White House wrote this bill and pushed it through. Every single Democrat voted against it.It's delusional to make a "both sides are screwing us over" argument when one side voted for a bill that's an existential threat to poker, and the... See full post
You assume I support trump which I don’t. I guess we just have to be destined to be at each others throat. I hate all of the politicians and their donors. GL at the tables I guess
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033475#post59033475)
Not sure what Negreanu has to do with this. He’s been very critical of Democrats’ strategy, but he certainly never voted for Trump.
DNegs has been more MAGA than Polk has, by far. Polk basically said he voted for Trump and nothing else. DNegs has been endlessly moaning about all sorts of culture war issues. Constantly criticizing Tim Walz who was the Democratic VP etc If you spend a significant amount of your time criticizing Democrats, and never criticize Republicans, in the buildup to a Trump election and Trump term, you effectively endorsed Trump. Has DNegs even said anything about this bill? In reality, I truly believe that DNegs just loves attention, and when Twitter was mostly liberal he was a liberal, and when Elon bought it and it went MAGA, he went MAGA. He's a chameleon with no principles, just thirsting for more likes. But he's absolutely gone quite political and quite MAGA in the last year or so. I actually respect Doug a lot more than Daniel because at least Doug is pretty forthright about his values. He's basically looking out for himself with a libertarian political streak. DNegs is the one who constantly needs to virtue signal but will flip what he considers virtuous on a dime if the winds change how they're blowing even a little.
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034214#post59034214)
-- Losses from wagering transactions, the amount allowed as a deduction is...-- 90% of such losses during a year (Not 100%)--- The 90% deduction shall be allowed only to the extent of such gains.It is calculated off of gains, not your total losses. 90% of your gains. That's the rule. You can think of how it's applied now as well. It's 100% right now up to the extent of gain... See full post
The 90% is calculated off your losses, not your gains. That is the plain language of the legislation. I don’t know how you are twisting the langauge to arrive at the conclusion you have, but it’s wrong. You are inserting a “such” into “such gains” that isn’t in the statute; maybe that’s where you’re tripping up, but even with this, it still requires a weird intepretation that just isn’t there, and isn’t intended.
by TheCake m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034261#post59034261)
You assume I support trump which I don’t. I guess we just have to be destined to be at each others throat. I hate all of the politicians and their donors. GL at the tables I guess
I don't assume you support Trump. We don't have to be at each other's throat. All we need to do is acknowledge the factual reality that
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034197#post59034197)
Apologies for being a dick on my end as well.Bills are intentionally confusing, but section (B) directs you to apply the calculation on your gains, not on your losses. So instead of $135k being the number in your example, while that is 90% of your losses, the 90% rule is applied to your gains.This is why everyone is up in arms over phantom income. Because you lose, but you st... See full post
In your example it is 90% on $150k ($135k), which is capped the extent of gains ($100k). You have $0 taxable profit. People are up in arms as you could pay taxes despite having a losing year: $100,000 won and lost $110,000 in a year would only be permitted to claim $99,000 in deductible losses, meaning they would have a taxable income of $1,000 even though they did not net profit on their wagers. Professionals (those who plan to profit most years) are more up in arms for this instance: $110,00 won and lost $100,000 in a year, their taxable profit would now be $20,000 (a 100% increase due to the bill). Essentially $10k of phantom income is being created and taxed.
“But you don't want unity and organization, you are part of a cult where the Democrats are always in the wrong, even when objective reality defies you.” This lead me to the belief you think I support trump. I think they are all scum and we are in a place where our collective voice no longer overtakes the “voice” of their donors. They will never again listen to the common man after the glass stegal act was overturned and citizens united put in place. “ If you want unity and organization, then you need to rally behind politicians who are in your corner.” Another fallacy. There is no politician in OUR corner, only when our corner alignes with their specific interests We are being cornered by the government, we need to bound together as Citizens and rework the way our Government works for US and not the big tech and corps of this world. I have already emailed my Rep and dropped a link for those of you to make your voice heard. I’ll call on Monday. Gl players.
Trying to get my head around how bad this might be for poker, gambling, and Vegas? First thought is US pro MTT guys are screwed but feels less clear how this will effect more recreational MTT players. Maybe it creates and uptick in cash as MTTers don't want to deal with extra tax and just play cash instead? I also wonder if it further decrease travel/gambling to Vegas and that has negative impact on cash games? More broadly this seems really bad for DFS.
by Calm Down m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034076#post59034076)
Lol @ markets rebounding. They are manipulating markets to make themselves rich, idiot. Also reducing the tariffs that Trump placed on China. Genius.Let's add that to my list too. Placing tariffs on almost the entire world, except notably Russia. Nice job.Why dont you explain all the things that aren't true, according to you? Or don't, it's clear you are a maga lunatic. You cou... See full post
That's Trumpism and his supporters in a nutshell. They've struck exactly 0 deals worth mentioning with countries that aren't involved in the killing of Yemeni children. Crater the market with tariff talk, let market recover because of tariff breaks and claim it a victory the market is at an all-time high. Market has seen a steady increase since October 2022 but lets pretend orange monkey is the reason it's recovered and continues to go up. But hey, I'm sure they will be selling many ''Large Engine Vehicles'' in Vietnam. Art of the deal everyone!
by mike1270 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034313#post59034313)
Trying to get my head around how bad this might be for poker, gambling, and Vegas? First thought is US pro MTT guys are screwed but feels less clear how this will effect more recreational MTT players.Maybe it creates and uptick in cash as MTTers don't want to deal with extra tax and just play cash instead? I also wonder if it further decrease travel/gambling to Vegas and that... See full post
I think your analysis is largely on point. On the whole, there's a very small class of tournament players, particularly the high end guys, for whom this is going to be pretty bad. The bigger the tournaments, the lower the ROI % even though ROI can go up in real dollars, and it's those gamblers that are grinding a small edge for large dollar amounts that are going to get hammered by this. Gambling rules already sucked for recreational players that don't itemize, so nothing really changes there. And most of the true recreational players will have losses in excess of 110% of wins anyway. The area you pointed to is the one where stuff is the ugliest - online DFS, because they can track all the transactions easily but the margins are small. With physical casino gambling that isn't machine tracked like that, nothing is really changing; the usual shenanigans will carry on. At most, I see this hampering some of the high roller and super high roller scene, but something like a normal WSOP tournament isn't going to see a big change.
by Manner Please m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034256#post59034256)
Democrats unamimously voted against screwing over players. Republicans almost unaminously voted for screwing over poker players.
You are either hopelessly naive about politics, or attempting some sort of bizarre spin here. Democrats did not vote against screwing over players. They voted against Trump. They could give two shits about players. They probably didn't even know that was in the bill. It didn't really matter what was in the bill, they were going to vote against it.
by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034366#post59034366)
You are either hopelessly naive about politics, or attempting some sort of bizarre spin here. Democrats did not vote against screwing over players. They voted against Trump. They could give two shits about players. They probably didn't even know that was in the bill. It didn't really matter what was in the bill, they were going to vote against it.
Neither did the republicans. Gotta love politics.
by TheFranz m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034296#post59034296)
Yeah they were worried about the gamblers that's why the Dems voted against this big beautiful bill. Lol
by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034366#post59034366)
You are either hopelessly naive about politics, or attempting some sort of bizarre spin here. Democrats did not vote against screwing over players. They voted against Trump. They could give two shits about players. They probably didn't even know that was in the bill. It didn't really matter what was in the bill, they were going to vote against it.
Wow great point man. You're right though, they were probably more worried about Medicaid cuts Tax cuts for wealthy Adding ~3 trillion to national debt Cuts to housing programs Just to name a few. Voting D is still the only way to improve life for 99% of americans, but yeah they probably dont care about poker at all.
Those of us who have been around for a bit remember the u.i.g.e.a ****ery , and that was 100% republicans. Simple truth is that Republicans are the party of evangelicals, and evangelicals view gambling as a sin to be punished. Thus democrats are the party for you if your interest is online poker.
Someone who is still a Trumper after everything, I have decided to just stop engaging with them. Because they are either woefully ignorant, a narcissistic sociopath, or a fascist. And there is no discussion with that. So anyone who comes out on 2 + 2 as still a supporter of this criminal president, I will simply ignore. I will not discuss anything with them. About anything, ever. Shunning might not do anything to help, but it is better for my mental health.
by Pablito m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034375#post59034375)
Neither did the republicans. Gotta love politics.
Exactly.
by Kosmo2 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034395#post59034395)
Those of us who have been around for a bit remember the u.i.g.e.a ****ery , and that was 100% republicans. Simple truth is that Republicans are the party of evangelicals, and evangelicals view gambling as a sin to be punished. Thus democrats are the party for you if your interest is online poker.
Unless you’re in California!!! Avelino Valencia (born November 12, 1988) is an American Democratic politician who is currently serving as a member of the California State Assembly for the 68th district since 2022. In California, Assemblymember Avelino Valencia is the lawmaker trying to ban sweepstakes poker and other forms of online sweepstakes gambling through Assembly Bill 831. Crazy how things change so fast huh?? **** all these scumbags. Go head and keep cheerleading these DS and Rs.
by Calm Down m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034394#post59034394)
Wow great point man. You're right though, they were probably more worried about Medicaid cuts Tax cuts for wealthy Adding ~3 trillion to national debt Cuts to housing programs Just to name a few.
Yup.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034405#post59034405)
Someone who is still a Trumper after everything, I have decided to just stop engaging with them. Because they are either woefully ignorant, a narcissistic sociopath, or a fascist. And there is no discussion with that. So anyone who comes out on 2 + 2 as still a supporter of this criminal president, I will simply ignore. I will not discuss anything with them. About anything, eve... See full post
Oh no!
by Manner Please m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034269#post59034269)
[QUOTE=TheCake;59034261]You assume I support trump which I don’t. I guess we just have to be destined to be at each others throat.....
I applaud your hate of Trump as he is the nut low of human beings, and the single worst political force to wreak havoc on America in the last 40+ years. The ignorance of the Trump cult is quite astounding. However, as others have pointed out, you are delusional in your own right if you think "Dem good, Rep bad' sums up our issues. Both sides are equally as bad and equally to blame for how we have gotten to this point. Politics in general has turned inherently evil and turned a blind eye to the American public. Who knows if the Dem's actually care of some of the issues at hand, and most certainly could care less about how this affects gamblers like you, they are just against Trump no matter what, which isn't really all that bad in a vacuum. As bad as Trump is, the left is not much better. They pick the worst fights and issues to die on the battlefield over, constantly pushing crap in our face that we may agree on morally, but don't want to be reminded of it every second of the day and told we are the 'bad ones' if we don't fully support something. That is the best way I can dance around a few current social issues lol. In the end, if people do not start moving towards the center more and continue to move to the fringes and far left/right, we are completely screwed. So, if you want to truly rally people, rally them at the center of the political spectrum, support the 'Independent' Party (like myself as a registered Ind), or help to create a whole new 3rd party. Telling people they have the wrong views and are on the wrong side politically is the complete opposite of how you would want to approach this. Open your eyes and educate yourself more if you truly want to try to make a difference.
by BrickMMA m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034366#post59034366)
You are either hopelessly naive about politics, or attempting some sort of bizarre spin here. Democrats did not vote against screwing over players. They voted against Trump. They could give two shits about players. They probably didn't even know that was in the bill. It didn't really matter what was in the bill, they were going to vote against it.
You're accusing me of "bizarre spin", when what you quoted by me was literally me citing two objective facts. Republicans created this bill and near-unanimous supported it, Democrats unanimously opposed it. Those are facts, that's the very opposite of "spin" if you know what the word "spin" means. "Spin" is how you interpret those facts, which is what you're doing when you're saying "Democrats didn't care about poker players, they were just voting against Trump". You're the one spinning here because you're taking stuff that's not factual and just an assumption you have (Democrats' motivation) and trying to apply it to the conversation. But, if we take your assumption as possible, why would Democrats oppose everything Trump does? Is it because they just don't like his haircut? No, it's the Trump supporters who are the overly-emotional people who oppose people based on superficial details about them - just look to earlier in this threaad when, forced to come up with a reason they are happy this happened, is because they avoided "cackling" Kamala. Who gives a **** about someone cackling? But no, Democrats are not opposed to Trump because of superficial things, but because of the things he actually does. In this case, make a huge bill that screws over millions of Americans to benefit a few of his friends. All the while , he's running up massive deficits, something Republican supporters with no principles constantly claim they're against, they constantly claim their "fiscal conservatives", but as soon as they get in office they spend like a trophy wife at a jewelry store who just got a credit limit increase. The only part of your "spin" that's true is that Democrats were not specifically caring about poker players, but they were broadly opposed to a broad bill that ****s over millions of American. Most Americans are getting screwed via inflation down the line because of higher deficits will force money printing, and denial of health care via things like Medicaid. But many more Americans got screwed in smaller ways. Poker players didn't screwed for no reason, they wanted to look for more tax revenue so they could give billionares bigger tax breaks at expenses of many small people. Poker players are just one of those many small groups of people. So while Democrats weren't specifically defending poker players, they were broadly opposed to a bill that screws over many groups of people in many ways, of which poker players were just a small one. Don't accuse me of "spin" until you learn what the word "spin" means. Me citing two objective facts:
you are a product of your environment. the effects of generational propaganda from fox and others took effect 9 years ago and has fully engulfed these people. they have been taught from age 0 that democrats and the national media are bad and anything counter to that they learn at school growing up is simply 'indoctrination' by the leftists. good ****ing luck trying to convince 1 of them otherwise.
So they changed Joe Biden's 1099-K reporting requirement mandates from $600 back to 20k... (Threshold for third-party platforms (e.g., PayPal, Venmo, DraftKings, FanDuel, etc.) reporting income via Form 1099-K is now back to $20,000 and 200 transactions, up from the $600 threshold) But for whatever reason they decided to screw us over, poker players/sports bettors on being taxed on losses/paying extra tax... Pretty sad to think that Ted Cruz didn't speak on this aspect At least the SALT cap was raised to 40k...
The UK and Germany seem to have harsh tax implications on gamblers/poker players. Not sure why we decided to follow suit with mandating higher tax for gamblers. The US gov't should just mandate playing poker or sports betting as earned income. Whos going to be the first politician to advocate for this? Doug Polk? https://youtu.be/hAFTXPpsRfc?si=jcTQKVaH... (https://youtu.be/hAFTXPpsRfc?si=jcTQKVaHkGn7HuOG)
by d2893d m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033934#post59033934)
Someone can do the maths for a cash game player who cash in 500k year and cash out 600k (profit 100k/year) ? I'm not sure to understand. What will be the taxes for a self-employed poker pro in that situation with BBB and without BBB ? Thanks
You don't track sessions by buyin amount and cashout amount. You count each session as a net win or net loss, and then total all of the winning sessions as gambling winnings, and all of the losing sessions as net losses. I use Poker Bankroll Tracker and filter on Profit from -99999 to 0 for losses, and 0 to 99999 for wins. Assuming 600k in winning sessions and 500k in losing sessions, you would pay an additional 15k in taxes, for a 68% tax increase. If your actual winning session total is not 600k, but some lower figure, then the tax hit would not be as much. [CODE] Winnings: 600000 Losses: 500000 Net: 100000 Allowed deduction: 450000 Tax (2024 single rate, including QBI and SE tax): 37570 Effective tax rate: 37.57% Previous tax: 22327 Previous effective tax rate: 22.33% Tax increase: 68.27% [/CODE] by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034214#post59034214)
-- Losses from wagering transactions, the amount allowed as a deduction is...
Take the L
by Ace upmy Slv m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034422#post59034422)
[QUOTE=Manner Please;59034269]I applaud your hate of Trump as he is the nut low of human beings, and the single worst political force to wreak havoc on America in the last 40+ years. The ignorance of the Trump cult is quite astounding. However, as others have pointed out, you are delusional in your own right if you think "Dem good, Rep bad' sums up our issues. Both sides are eq... See full post
Agree with the gist, but one reason we spin our wheels too much is thinking of "the left" and "the right" as coherent ideologies embodied by the political parties. L and R are just descriptions that could apply to a range of issues and philosophies. e.g. there are like 5 countries that don't guarantee paternity leave and the U.S. is one. 80% of Americans including most Republican voters want us to have it. Our media and both political parties don't want us to have it. Therefore this common sense policy that almost everyone supports is "far left." There are many issues like this. These issues really have nothing to do with certain moral/social issues that often involve identity politics. But they are bundled together in a way that muddles everything up. Like "the far left wants us to have paternity leave, and for certain extreme ideologies to be taught as fact in schools." No, these are two different issues that have very little to do with each other materially or philosophically. It would easily be possible to have paternity leave and not promote extreme ID politics in schools. The same model applies to some things that are labeled right wing. "The far right thinks immigrants should get background checks and that creationism should be taught in schools." In a nutshell, identity politics and material politics are different things. But extremes in identity politics are used to make sure good material policies that most people want are never passed. Ultimately Wall Street DGAF if there is prayer in school or not, so we are free to go back on forth on that. But we will never fix our HC system or have a foreign policy that aims for peace or go back to the days when politicians made a nice UMC income for serving their country instead of millions from being openly corrupt.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034405#post59034405)
Someone who is still a Trumper after everything, I have decided to just stop engaging with them. Because they are either woefully ignorant, a narcissistic sociopath, or a fascist. And there is no discussion with that. So anyone who comes out on 2 + 2 as still a supporter of this criminal president, I will simply ignore. I will not discuss anything with them. About anything, eve... See full post
Agreed. "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -Mark Twain
by Ace upmy Slv m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034422#post59034422)
[QUOTE=Manner Please;59034269] I applaud your hate of Trump as he is the nut low of human beings, and the single worst political force to wreak havoc on America in the last 40+ years. The ignorance of the Trump cult is quite astounding. However, as others have pointed out, you are delusional in your own right if you think "Dem good, Rep bad' sums up our issues. .
The last thing I believe is that the Democrats are good. In California, they were going to get rid of the hidden feees in restaurants and the most pride-waving, virtue-signaling Democrat there is - Scott Weiner - nixed it at the 11th hour because he got paid off by the restaurant lobby. And yes they focus on fringe culture issues like trans women in sports instead of stuff people care about like cost of living. My message was that on the issue this whole thread is supposed to be about the Democrats are obviously superior. The Republicans caused Black Friday and they indisputably introduced this issue now. The reason I say this message is because basic facts are attempting to be buried by Trump cultists. There's a general attempt at deflection by people who are clearly GOP apologists where because this issue is so crystal clear that the GOP did something bad, tehy want to shift the conversation to some broad "both sides are bad in the end" picture which is a whataboutism fallacy that pulls us away from the actual thing being discussed where the GOP are clearly in the wrong. We already had one lunatic claim it was introduced by a Democratic parlimentarian in spite of that being predicated on a fundamental misunderstanding of the role and no evidence. We already had another lunatic say that Trump is still better than the Democrats because they're at fault for not defeating Trump. If you want to say "both sides are bad", sure, but they're not equally bad, and especially not equally bad on all issues, and it's crystal clear that Democrats are better for poker. Not because they give a **** about poker players, but because they largely don't and largely leave us alone. They are actually the party of small government on many issues. As far as being independent, I'm a centrist and a moderate and I've voted third party in every election that wasn't a close election, usually Libertarian Party. But it's a protest vote. It's a complete fantasy that a third party would emerge as a contender, and if one did, it would not be led by the poker industry or anyone a part of it. If you really want to go that route, Andrew Yang is promoting the Forward Party and campaigned on bringing back online poker. The only problem is the route is a dead end. But FWIW, another pro-poker politician who was Democrat, not Republican. The poker industry is small and niche and if it wants to effectively advocate for itself, it has to identify candidates behind one of the two major parties that has a prayer at winning the electoin and support them. And the obvious truth that people are struggling to admit is that means that it's in the poker industry's best interest to rally around pro-gambling Democrats, who don't have to worry about the moral busybodies in the GOP messing with them (and btw its ironic that many poker players accuse the Dems of being moral busybodies and completely forgot the GOP has the evangelicals who are far worse and more numerous than the woke peopleat busybodying) . The simple conclusion is that in the two-party system we must exist in, you must choose candidates from those two partys and for poker, Democrats have a far, far better track record. Whether poker is your top priority is another question. But there's been a lot of lunatics and cultists in this thread trying to deflect from this very obvious conclusion.
by Manner Please m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034584#post59034584)
[QUOTE=Ace upmy Slv;59034422]The last thing I believe is that the Democrats are good. In California, they were going to get rid of the hidden feees in restaurants and the most pride-waving, virtue-signaling Democrat there is - Scott Weiner - nixed it at the 11th hour because he got paid off by the restaurant lobby. And yes they focus on fringe culture issues like trans women in... See full post
Thing is republican's back then were not the best, prefer the ones we have now. But the democrats back then were not the worst and not radical/extreme, prefer the ones we had back then.
by donjonnie m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59033787#post59033787)
I mean i dislike Trump as much as the next guy but american concentration camps are nothing new.
Definitely not... my mom was born in one (Tule Lake).
-No issue with this bill. Just means you need to collect 10% more losing horse betting slips! -In reality it does suck, nothing good about, only bad. Mainly bad for high buyin tourney players and online players. Not really an issue for anyone else with some common sense. -Manner Please is so clueless it's frustrating to think anyone believes the stuff he posts. -Democrats don't care any more about gamblers then republicans. Just sucks that a conservative republican attached this crap in the Senate and was able to sneak it thru since it was not a big enough issue to anyone to slow down the BBB getting pushed thru before July 4th. Out of all the issues gambling is way down on the list The UIGEA passage was even worse. The conservatives pushing that had been trying for years and unable to pass it, until the attached it to the Patriot Act that was never going to not get passed. Same type thing, the Patriot Act was such a big deal, nobody was going to vote against it just because of a "silly gambling" attachment. This tax thing this year came out of nowhere. Democrats had plenty of chances to rollback the UIGEA when they controls house, senate, president. But they could care less as well.
by spinandno m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034617#post59034617)
https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/194129... (https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/1941296944632246452) On time please.
(https://twitter.com/repdinatitus)
Dina Titus (https://twitter.com/repdinatitus)@repdinatitus (https://twitter.com/repdinatitus)· Follow (https://x.com/intent/follow?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1941296944632246452%7Ctwgr%5E11c7f6d88ca1e6e1a0133433755b918218fd1803%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC%3Fpage%3D13&screen_name=repdinatitus)
(https://x.com/repdinatitus/status/1941296944632246452?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1941296944632246452%7Ctwgr%5E11c7f6d88ca1e6e1a0133433755b918218fd1803%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwoplustwo.com%2FNews-Views-and-Gossip%2F13mug%2FBig-Beautiful-Bill-potentially-very-bad-for-poker-players-in-the-US---STAY-ON-TOPIC%3Fpage%3D13) On Monday I’m introducing the FAIR BET Act, the Fair Accounting for Income Realized from Betting Earnings Taxation Act, to permanently restore the 100% loss deduction from gambling winnings.
I welcome all other members to join this common sense fix.
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I found the loophole. Just never have a loss and this change won't affect you.
I was told poker is one long session. Now you’re telling me it’s not and I need to book those winning and losing sessions strategically to not owe taxes on nonexistent profits?
by BullyEyelash m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034122#post59034122)
The last President to read every page of a bill he signed was Mallard Fillmore.
Is that scruge McDucks brother?
by TreeDodger m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034214#post59034214)
-- Losses from wagering transactions, the amount allowed as a deduction is...-- 90% of such losses during a year (Not 100%)--- The 90% deduction shall be allowed only to the extent of such gains.It is calculated off of gains, not your total losses. 90% of your gains. That's the rule. You can think of how it's applied now as well. It's 100% right now up to the extent of gain... See full post
Sorry you are simply incorrect. Losses *90% is max deduction but your gambling net still cannot be a loss.
by zrap m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034599#post59034599)
Manner Please is so clueless it's frustrating to think anyone believes the stuff he posts..
Great point, easier to hand wave away everything I say as 'clueless' than challenge yourself by trying to read at a 5th grade level and address anything I specifically said. You seem to be repeating the main complaint others have against the Democrats, that they didn't do enough to rescue poker players from the awful decisions Republicans made. And you completely missed my other point, which is that Democrats not caring about poker players is exactly why they're better, because they simply ignore us rather than let their evangelical friends actively mess with poker players. It's frustrating that people like you are allowed to vote, one of democracy's leaks.
by Calm Down m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034394#post59034394)
Wow great point man. You're right though, they were probably more worried about Medicaid cuts Tax cuts for wealthy Adding ~3 trillion to national debt Cuts to housing programs Just to name a few. Voting D is still the only way to improve life for 99% of americans, but yeah they probably dont care about poker at all.
Compared to 2024 can you point to any new tax cut for the rich? Just one.
by zrap m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034599#post59034599)
Democrats had plenty of chances to rollback the UIGEA when they controls house, senate, president. But they could care less as well.
Republicans pass a horrible bill that destroys online poker in the USA, and the conclusion is its Obama fault for not takign time away from fighting for the Affordable Care Act to put Full Tilt back (and their sponsored, scamming pros like Mike MAGA Matusow) . Its literally "Thanks, Obama", the meme, in real life, by a real idiot
by Manner Please m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034431#post59034431)
You're accusing me of "bizarre spin", when what you quoted by me was literally me citing two objective facts. Republicans created this bill and near-unanimous supported it, Democrats unanimously opposed it.Those are facts, that's the very opposite of "spin" if you know what the word "spin" means. "Spin" is how you interpret those facts, which is what you're doing when you're sa... See full post
You confuse facts and spin. Yes you can factually state who voted for or against the bill. Those are objective facts. But you went further. You are calling your characterization of motivation as a fact. That is not factual. That is when you moved into spin.
Lastly its hilarious yet sad that right now so many of you are STILL insisting "both parties are the same and neither party cares about poker players" and "Democrats are just as as bad" when RIGHT NOW Dina Titus is a Congressperson who actively is doing interviews calling out the damage this will have to Las Vegas. RIGHT NOW Dina has a tweet with 3k views calling out that its damaging to poker players and should be changed, even when the American Gaming Association told you to **** off and turned off replies. RIGHT NOW there is immediate evidence that you can find with a 5 second Google search demonstrating a Dem congressperson advocating for poker players in the public sphere And the Trump cult still has to come into this thread and call me clueless for suggesting both parties are not the same. And Im demonstrating my cluelessness by pointing out facts that they find inconvienent If this was simply a thread about the best interest of poker, "rally around Dina Titus, the only major power broker who gives a **** about us at all" would be the obvious conclusion but because she has a D next to her name, there. needs to be a debate and I'm called clueless
For those still speculating that Democrats (or absurdly, the parliamentarian) are behind this, here’s a Washington Post article on specifically on the changes in this provision: Lose bets, pay taxes? New bill has some ... (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2025/07/04/tax-bill-gambling-deductions-provision/) The deductions rule came out of the Senate Finance Committee, and the office of its chairman, Sen. Mike Crapo (R-Idaho), did not reply to requests to comment. Ryan Carey, a spokesperson for Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Oregon), the committee’s ranking Democrat, said he couldn’t explain the motivations behind the change — “The Republicans wrote this one on their own”
Just to recap:
This is how we operate in a post-truth world. It's the worst part about MAGA. They've built a giant disinformation system, so facts don't matter. Truth™ is Obama passed the UIEGA and Trump loves poker. 🙄 Lie, deny, delay, new crisis.
This thread is actually super interesting to study. Our industry is literally being attacked by GOP religious nuts and these folks blame Democrats. MAGA is sort of a culty pyramid scheme like Amway. The members can't admit they're wrong because of sunk cost, ego, etc. Instead they recruit the next members to victimize.
by Fore m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034683#post59034683)
Compared to 2024 can you point to any new tax cut for the rich? Just one.
https://itep.org/top-1-to-receive-1-trillion-tax-cut-from-trump-megabill-over-next-decade/ ITEP Top 1% to Receive $1 Trillion Tax Cut from Trump Megabill Over the Next Decade (https://itep.org/top-1-to-receive-1-trillion-tax-cut-from-trump-megabill-over-next-decade/)
by TropicThunder m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034722#post59034722)
This thread is actually super interesting to study. Our industry is literally being attacked by GOP religious nuts and these folks blame Democrats. MAGA is sort of a culty pyramid scheme like Amway. The members can't admit they're wrong because of sunk cost, ego, etc. Instead they recruit the next members to victimize.
Yes, this is such a perfect look into the maga mindset. If you admit you were wrong, you lose, so you have to continue eating **** with a smile on your face until you die.
by TropicThunder m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034722#post59034722)
This thread is actually super interesting to study. Our industry is literally being attacked by GOP religious nuts and these folks blame Democrats. MAGA is sort of a culty pyramid scheme like Amway. The members can't admit they're wrong because of sunk cost, ego, etc. Instead they recruit the next members to victimize.
Absolutely! It is like USA is some alcoholic or drug-abusing person going down to the very bottom and thinking they are the king of the world at the same time. I am not from U.S but we also have tiny part of population in my country (in EU) who have gotten tangled in disinformation web made by Russian propaganda machine. They are raging lunatics who shout about flat earth, vaccines etc. But the scale of intellectual and moral decadence in the states is off the chart. It is fascinating to see the mightiest country in the world to become this MAGA-cult, just like Jonestown cult led by Jim Jones in the 1970´s. It will be interesting to see how far cultist are willing to go, since in Jonestown they actually drank poison and committed mass suicide with over 900 people. Maybe some cultists end up being thrown in some of these concentration camps and still keep saying "this is good, Im gonna obey my leader" etc. Chinese must be laughing so hard to USA, they are being handed the crown of most powerful country in the world so easily. Social media is very powerful tool to make people go nuts and these eastern nations really know what they are doing. For many decades I looked up to Americans, since WW2 they were like this beacon of hope and freedom when compared to Soviet Union. Now USA is becoming like some authoritarian shithole country and I have lost all respect towards them. Arrogance and foolishness is a combination that really puts me off. It is sad, but very interesting at the same time.
by Dominic m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034405#post59034405)
Someone who is still a Trumper after everything, I have decided to just stop engaging with them. Because they are either woefully ignorant, a narcissistic sociopath, or a fascist. And there is no discussion with that. So anyone who comes out on 2 + 2 as still a supporter of this criminal president, I will simply ignore. I will not discuss anything with them. About anything, eve... See full post
You directed porn videos you never had any morals to begin with. I have Aspergers, just because I made a vote doesn't mean that you should shun others. What has happened in our society where having an opinion or view has you ostracized. Why are you so adamant about this topic? Kamala was never going to be the answer. Your mental health was already weak to have the viewpoint that you have. I voted for Trump because he has a spine and Kamala I didn't like. Having an open mind and not being jaded my help you.
Perhaps Trump has a grudge against gambling because his casino filed for bankruptcy four times
by PatPat8 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034643#post59034643)
I was told poker is one long session. Now you’re telling me it’s not and I need to book those winning and losing sessions strategically to not owe taxes on nonexistent profits?
I was thinking about this. I don't see how they'll be able to apply this law to poker (except for live mtt maybe) What if I play cash game and I take a 30 minute break? Is this a new session or not? What if I multitable mtt? Does each mtt count as a session or a session is the result at the end of the day?
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034783#post59034783)
I made the most logical choice, Kamala wasn't the answer.
And here you have the issue. There are two possibilities for you thinking this. The first. You are an imbecile. You have zero understanding of politics and fail to understand that voting R = slowly decreasing quality of life for 99% of americans. The second. You are malicious. You understand, but you dont care. You are happy as long as immigrants, minorities, lgbt+trans people, poor people, women etc are getting ****ed over. You are willing to get ****ed over as long as they are getting too. From the way you talk, you seem to be the first. Your mistake is thinking that it even matters who the D nominee is. D > R for 99% of people. The president is not a dictator, they appoint their cabinet. Although Trump has gone on record saying he would very much like to become dictator but let's forget about that for now.
(This)
woman gets it. It doesn't matter what who the nominee is. As long as its not R.
The problem with your countrys two party system, and inherently all two party systems, is that it will eventually become too polarized. They must always be in opposition. Right now, no matter what D is for, R is against it.
So you have one party that is steadily focused on what is good for society. The other is fundamentally against all of that, as well as trying to transfer as much wealth to the billionaires as possible.
Is that what you want? Cutting down on healthcare, education, law enforcement, public infrastructure, so that Bezos can get more money?
A population that is healthy and intelligent is good for the nation. R is hellbent on keeping its people dumb and having to pay out the ass for healthcare.
I could go on, but why dont you respond and say what it is about D that you just cant vote for them? You havent actually said anything beyond "Kamala ain't it" so far.
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034774#post59034774)
What has happened in our society where having an opinion or view has you ostracized. Why are you so adamant about this topic? .
When your vote is directly causing death, pain, and suffering to millions of poor people not just in the US, but around the world, maybe you deserve to get ostracized. Enjoy your tax break.
by Fore m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034683#post59034683)
Compared to 2024 can you point to any new tax cut for the rich? Just one.
lol big brain guy right here laying a trap for the libtards. It is true that the BBB does not impact 2024 tax rates, only later years. Good news for you guys who want to go back in time 12 months to play some Pai Gow or what have you.
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034774#post59034774)
You directed porn videos you never had any morals to begin with. I have Aspergers, just because I made a vote doesn't mean that you should shun others. What has happened in our society where having an opinion or view has you ostracized. Why are you so adamant about this topic? Kamala was never going to be the answer. Your mental health was already weak to have the viewpoin... See full post
Hey Kev, MAGA is a movement based on intolerance., of the usual groups. Hope this helps explain why you are rightfully being shunned…… The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance; thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance. This paradox was articulated by philosopher Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945),[1] where he argued that a truly tolerant society must retain the right to deny tolerance to those who promote intolerance. Popper posited that if intolerant ideologies are allowed unchecked expression, they could exploit open society values to erode or destroy tolerance itself through authoritarian or oppressive practices.
by Slugant m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034788#post59034788)
Perhaps Trump has a grudge against gambling because his casino filed for bankruptcy four times
by cardsharkk04 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034795#post59034795)
When your vote is directly causing death, pain, and suffering to millions of poor people not just in the US, but around the world, maybe you deserve to get ostracized. Enjoy your tax break.
I understand why you don't like Trump because most people don't. Why would I want suffering and death? I have Aspergers I just state my thoughts, and I get the brute of it which is ok. Trump was shot at and almost killed and yet no one discusses this? I am not a malicious person at all, I made a vote and I get attacked for it. Would be happy if someone killed me like they tried to do to my president Trump?
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034804#post59034804)
I understand why you don't like Trump because most people don't. Why would I want suffering and death? I have Aspergers I just state my thoughts, and I get the brute of it which is ok. Trump was shot at and almost killed and yet no one discusses this? I am not a malicious person at all, I made a vote and I get attacked for it. Would be happy if someone killed me like they ... See full post
You are not arguing in good faith. How would we know why you want suffering and death? You're the one who voted for a guy who is doing exactly what he said he would. You tell us why this resonated with you
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034804#post59034804)
I understand why you don't like Trump because most people don't. Why would I want suffering and death? I have Aspergers I just state my thoughts, and I get the brute of it which is ok. Trump was shot at and almost killed and yet no one discusses this? I am not a malicious person at all, I made a vote and I get attacked for it. Would be happy if someone killed me like they ... See full post
Aspegers doesn't cause ignorance. Buddy, religious wackos who want to police sex, drugs, and gambling are the GOP. They always have been. They killed online poker in the US the first time and they would love to again. Please take responsibility for yourself try to read, learn, become humble. How can you learn if you're always right?
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034804#post59034804)
Why would I want suffering and death?
This bill is what you voted for. I mean do you really not understand where all this money is coming from to be funneled to the most wealthy people in the US? Loss of Medicaid coverage and having people pay co-pays on stuff like dialysis will absolutely kill people. And you voted for it. Congrats.
by kevmode m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034804#post59034804)
Trump was shot at and almost killed and yet no one discusses this? I am not a malicious person at all, I made a vote and I get attacked for it. Would be happy if someone killed me like they tried to do to my president Trump?
Oh it is being discussed. You may want to read this. Not saying it's gotta be true but it would be very fitting. If you haven't understood after all these years that Drumpf is a total con job, I don't know what to tell you anyway.
https://themouthyrenegadewriter.substack... (https://themouthyrenegadewriter.substack.com/p/chat-gpt-analyzes-trumps-alleged)
by Calm Down m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034794#post59034794)
And here you have the issue. There are two possibilities for you thinking this. . The first. You are an imbecile. You have zero understanding of politics and fail to understand that voting R = slowly decreasing quality of life for 99% of americans.The second. You are malicious. You understand, but you dont care. You are happy as long as immigrants, minorities, lgbt+trans people... See full post
As an English professor, I like to grade things.: A+ post And yes, I've already put that chucklehead kevmode on ignore, just like any other poster on here who supports Trump. But mostly because he is woefully uninteresting and obviously lacking in any critical thinking skills. My tortoise has more interesting things to say than kevmode.
by PatPat8 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034643#post59034643)
I was told poker is one long session. Now you’re telling me it’s not and I need to book those winning and losing sessions strategically to not owe taxes on nonexistent profits?
The odd thing is the IRS never actually defines what a session is.
Broken YouTube Link😃
The problem is that both sides have been taken over by the extremes. The left is mostly creepy, unhinged, overly emotional, low testosterone, neurotic weirdos. They support the Democrats because the Democrats support their right to be different. I'd be remised not to mention they have a vitriol hate for Trump. The right is mostly dumb as a stump, right wing media educated, conspiracy theory, pick up truck driving, goobers who support Republicans because Republicans support their hate against people of color, migrants, LGBTQ and the poor. This seems to only be getting worse. this seems to be the way it will always be. If only we had a normal Republican and a normal Democrat to vote for. I suggest that both sides take a brake from the internet for a while. go out into nature and clear your heads.
It's incredible watching the sheer power of propaganda and the takeover of social media by nefarious actors pushing political agendas. Right now, the top 1% has as much wealth as the bottom 50% combined. Possibly more depending on which study you look at. And they've gotten there by convincing people the source of the problem is an assortment of groups. It's the immigrants #1, then communists, social justice warriors, the LGBT people who are definitely preying on your kids, and the poor sucking in your money through welfare! They spend billions on getting that message out both overtly and subliminally. In the end, they get voted in and set the rules so it's easier for Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos to hoard insane amounts of wealth, and then the cycle of funding continues. Now, in this thread, you can see the impact this propaganda has taken. One poster is convinced Trump is the one to vote for. "He's got a spine!!!" What does that even mean, hah. Others are coping "Well Democrats are just as bad I'm sure! We all cheat on our taxes anyway!! Poor Trump doesn't know it's in the bill, it's not his fault!" In the meantime, do you people realize how hard you would be hating on Democrats if this was a democrat-led bill? It's honestly a bit sad to watch this. Many of you literally have your livelihoods taken away by MAGA and can't muster up the self-reflection to say you shouldn't have been behind these people. It's okay to be wrong and admit you've been had. Spend less time on social media and watch out for brainwashing tactics trying to convince you liberals are the source of all your problems.
by cardsharkk04 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034823#post59034823)
This bill is what you voted for. I mean do you really not understand where all this money is coming from to be funneled to the most wealthy people in the US? Loss of Medicaid coverage and having people pay co-pays on stuff like dialysis will absolutely kill people. And you voted for it. Congrats.
Who exactly lost Medicaid coverage?
by mongidig m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034958#post59034958)
The problem is that both sides have been taken over by the extremes. The left is mostly creepy, unhinged, overly emotional, low testosterone, neurotic weirdos. They support the Democrats because the Democrats support their right to be different. I'd be remised not to mention they have a vitriol hate for Trump. The right is mostly dumb as a stump, right wing media educated, cons... See full post
Except that what you call extreme left wing is like what most of the world would call standard left wing political stances. Extreme left wing is something wholly different. I agree that the Democrats are part of the problem, but not because they are too left wing, it's because, like the other party, too many of them are also working primarily for their donors and special interests rather than for their electorate. That's the real issue here.
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I am kinda bummed that 10% of this thread is about the bill and 90% is BS politics about who to blame. Is phantom income legal in other contexts? Is this bill legal - can some one really lose money gambling and owe taxes? Is there a realistic chance Rep Titus's bill to reverse this can pass before it goes into effect? Is this at all like UEIGA, in that it will take an extra 18+ months to implement because treasury needs to write some regulations/guidlines or will it go into effect 1/1/26?
by mike1270 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034993#post59034993)
I am kinda bummed that 10% of this thread is about the bill and 90% is BS politics about who to blame. Is phantom income legal in other contexts? Is this bill legal - can some one really lose money gambling and owe taxes?Is there a realistic chance Rep Titus's bill to reverse this can pass before it goes into effect? Is this at all like UEIGA, in that it will take an extra 1... See full post
If we don't learn why a problem occurs, we can't fix it. This thread demonstrates.the impressive power of propaganda and how impervious to reality so many people are thanks to it. Your questions are fine, but the people here are too broken to operate in reality.
by TropicThunder m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035021#post59035021)
If we don't learn why a problem occurs, we can't fix it. This thread demonstrates.the impressive power of propaganda and how impervious to reality so many people are thanks to it. Your questions are fine, but the people here are too broken to operate in reality.
How about trying to answer my questions
by manhattan7 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034959#post59034959)
It's incredible watching the sheer power of propaganda and the takeover of social media by nefarious actors pushing political agendas. Right now, the top 1% has as much wealth as the bottom 50% combined. Possibly more depending on which study you look at. And they've gotten there by convincing people the source of the problem is an assortment of groups. It's the immigrants #1, ... See full post
It's all by design. Republicans, Democrats, two sides of the same corrupt-coin. They are master manipulators of society. They get the emotionally charged fringes of each opposing side fired up over one talking point or another, and pit them against one another. Those of us in the middle throw our hands up in frustration and become apathetic to the whole thing. As long as we keep demonizing one another, the people in power ensure they maintain their stranglehold over all the money and power. I fear the only way to enact true change in the US would be a violent uprising to tear down the current power structure. But that would mean things would have to get a LOT worse before they could get better. The people in power keep enough of us just comfortable enough (and certainly distracted and exhausted enough) to try to ensure that doesn't happen.
by mike1270 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034993#post59034993)
I am kinda bummed that 10% of this thread is about the bill and 90% is BS politics about who to blame. Is phantom income legal in other contexts? Is this bill legal - can some one really lose money gambling and owe taxes?Is there a realistic chance Rep Titus's bill to reverse this can pass before it goes into effect? Is this at all like UEIGA, in that it will take an extra 1... See full post
It may technically be phantom income but the text of the law just limits DEDUCTIONS. My reading which may be incorrect is, for example if you win 100k and lose 100k , you will owe taxes on 10k . Titus chances are close to zero in the current congress, why would they repeal something they just passed? Since it’s just altering deductions, I doubt it will need new regulations , but idk. I would bet it goes into effect 1/1/26.
by mike1270 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035024#post59035024)
How about trying to answer my questions
I tried. I'll go again. It doesn't matter because these people will chew their own feet off before the GOP shoots them. I saw a tax expert say 25% chance of repeal. It goes into effect next year.
by TampaKn1sh m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035044#post59035044)
They literally have the opposite platforms. If enough Democrats win their elections, they will tax the uber rich enough so there's some semblance of fairness in society. This "both sides" garbage is meant to try to get people from voting for the party that won't rob them by saying "Hey, you know these guys aren't perfect right?"
by manhattan7 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035096#post59035096)
They literally have the opposite platforms. If enough Democrats win their elections, they will tax the uber rich enough so there's some semblance of fairness in society. This "both sides" garbage is meant to try to get people from voting for the party that won't rob them by saying "Hey, you know these guys aren't perfect right"
Didn’t democrats control everything from 2008-2024? I know trump won 2016-2020 but not much seemed different in those times?
by TheCake m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035098#post59035098)
Didn’t democrats control everything from 2008-2024? I know trump won 2016-2020 but not much seemed different in those times?
I'm not sure if you're talking about online poker or "things generally". The biggest difference in 2016-2020 was that Republicans changed the tax code so it is much more friendly to the rich (see the corporate tax rate getting a massive cut, huge increases in exemptions for the estate tax that only multimillionaires use, etc.). They are clearly the political party that prefer wealth inequality. For poker, Republican Bill Frist added an effective poker ban into the UIGEA for moral reasons, and Republican Mike Crapo added the 90% cap on gambling-loss deductions to BBB. They are clearly the anti-poker party. Usually people try to boil things down to "Didn't you FEEL better under xyz politician?" to invoke nostalgia as the vote driver instead of actually identifying which politicians are trying to do the right thing and help you. And usually Democrats are the ones trying to push through positive changes, can't get the votes due to people not voting enough Democrats in, then people say "Oh I guess Democrats are just as bad!"
by TheCake m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035098#post59035098)
Didn’t democrats control everything from 2008-2024? I know trump won 2016-2020 but not much seemed different in those times?
The only times during this period where Democrats had unified control were 2009-2010 and 2021-2022 (where the Senate was tied).
by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034907#post59034907)
The odd thing is the IRS never actually defines what a session is.
True, but precedent is that a minimum of one session per gambling day is required, and each tournament (live, at least) counts as a separate session. by Manner Please m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034709#post59034709)
Just to recap:* The UIGAE was introduced in 2006... * The UIGAE was enforced in 2011 (Black Friday) ...* Democratic politician Andrew Yang makes federally regulated online poker a part of his 2020 platform: https://2020.yang2020.com/policies/regul... (https://2020.yang2020.com/policies/regulate-online-poker/)* In 2025, A Republican House, Senate, and President introduce a new tax law that could greatly increase the tax bur... See full post
Don't forget that the 2017 TCJA eliminated net operating losses (NOL) for professional gamblers. R president, R House, R Senate.
In response to this I think we should all be lobbying our Senators and Representatives to pass a bill completely eliminating taxes on casino gambling winnings. As it is we are already playing with our after taxed income. That would be a huge boost for the industry and the patrons. The casinos would save millions on the reporting requirements, and you can get paid faster. This would also put us on par with the UK and probably some other jurisdictions.
I would say most country's dont tax gambling winnings. but most countries also control gambling and take money from the casinos usually for the worse
by manhattan7 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035096#post59035096)
They literally have the opposite platforms. If enough Democrats win their elections, they will tax the uber rich enough so there's some semblance of fairness in society. This "both sides" garbage is meant to try to get people from voting for the party that won't rob them by saying "Hey, you know these guys aren't perfect right"
Right, there are ZERO democrats that are "uber rich" at all. The dems and republicans are both bought and paid for by the uber rich, they haven't represented the common man for a long time. There's a reason these politicians spend tens or hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars to get elected to a job that pays a few hundred thousand/year, and it's not because they want to look out for us.
Let's stick to the NVG topic at hand from here out. Other politics discussions are available down the hall.
by borg23 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034907#post59034907)
The odd thing is the IRS never actually defines what a session is.
Now, you're incentivized to make sure sessions are as long as possible with this new tax. 2 players who profited $50k on the year: Player A had winnings of $70k and losses of $20k, of which he can only count 90% or $18k. Now owes taxes on $52k instead of $50k, not a huge deal. Player B is a high volume, high buyin live MTT player. He had $5,000,050 in winnings and $5,000,000 in losses, of which he can count only $4,500,000. Now owes taxes on $550k instead of $50k, he's ****ed. Such an ill conceived bill. If they wanted to slap an extra 10% on gambling profits, ok I could understand that, but they constructed it in a way that makes zero sense.
by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035281#post59035281)
In response to this I think we should all be lobbying our Senators and Representatives to pass a bill completely eliminating taxes on casino gambling winnings. As it is we are already playing with our after taxed income.That would be a huge boost for the industry and the patrons. The casinos would save millions on the reporting requirements, and you can get paid faster.This wou... See full post
I agree, but not all states have legal gaming, so this isn't ideal. Does Idaho have legal gambling? A more simple and effective plan is to vote Democrat. They don't oppose gambling. In Idaho: Legalized gambling activities include state-sanctioned events such as pari-mutuel betting, lotteries, and bingo, conducted under strict regulations. Pari-mutuel betting is limited to horse and dog racing. This bill hardly touches his state. I wonder why he's so concerned about it? �� Remember what it was like pre Black Friday? Stop voting Republican.
by Fossilkid93 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035422#post59035422)
Player B is a high volume, high buyin live MTT player. He had $5,000,050 in winnings and $5,000,000 in losses, of which he can count only $4,500,000. Now owes taxes on $550k instead of $50k, he's ****ed.
I don't know what the poker economy will do if we lose all the high-stakes GTO misregs
by Videopro m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035281#post59035281)
In response to this I think we should all be lobbying our Senators and Representatives to pass a bill completely eliminating taxes on casino gambling winnings. As it is we are already playing with our after taxed income.
Good luck getting through. This is one of the least popular pieces of passed legislation in the history of polling. The time to fight against something like this was before the election. It's going to be hard to undo now, especially when you're one of the smallest, least powerful, least important constituents hurt by this bill. The increased chances of getting hit with a stray bullet like this by the Trump administration on something nobody was even talking about should have been a good reason for gamblers and other niche group to vote against republicans. But yeah, the guy who goes on rants about windmills causing cancer and doesn't seem smart enough to separate truth from obvious lies and propaganda for some reason signed a bill that arbitrarily hurts a small group with no real benefit to anyone. Who knows why it's in there.... makes about as much sense as talking about Hannibal Lecter all the time in speeches, which he also does.
I posted this a few days ago but guess nobody saw it since the thread is moving so fast. Can anyone tax savvy confirm that playing from abroad should resolve this issue because of the foreign earned income exclusion (assuming you’re making under the threshold - which is currently over 120K)? I assume that for payroll taxes (fica/ss/medicare) this law will still have an effect, but by doing this would minimize your US tax obligations?
by ten25 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035712#post59035712)
I posted this a few days ago but guess nobody saw it since the thread is moving so fast. Can anyone tax savvy confirm that playing from abroad should resolve this issue because of the foreign earned income exclusion (assuming you’re making under the threshold - which is currently over 120K)?I assume that for payroll taxes (fica/ss/medicare) this law will still have an effect, b... See full post
If you reside in the US any money you make or earn is taxable income regardless of whether you make it in Canada or Mexico IIRC.
by ten25 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59035712#post59035712)
I posted this a few days ago but guess nobody saw it since the thread is moving so fast. Can anyone tax savvy confirm that playing from abroad should resolve this issue because of the foreign earned income exclusion (assuming you’re making under the threshold - which is currently over 120K)?I assume that for payroll taxes (fica/ss/medicare) this law will still have an eff... See full post
Playing from abroad or being a fiscal resident in another country... There must be specific rules for that, also the FEIE can be 240K for couples? Another question is, if you're American and are a fiscal resident in another country, the FEIE should only work for online poker and live poker outside the US, not playing in the WSOP for example right? A third order of question, what about foreigners that play in the US, does this new bill have any impact... and for players who reside in countries that have a gambling tax treaty with the US, which is mostly eastern europe, UK, Malta and a couple other countries? Lots of issues to explore in relation to this
Again, stay on topic in NVG and post your general politics thoughts in the Politics forum.
by Calm Down m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034725#post59034725)
https://itep.org/top-1-to-receive-1-trillion-tax-cut-from-trump-megabill-over-next-decade/ ITEP Top 1% to Receive $1 Trillion Tax Cut from Trump Megabill Over the Next Decade (https://itep.org/top-1-to-receive-1-trillion-tax-cut-from-trump-megabill-over-next-decade/)
Yes, this is such a perfect look into the maga mindset. If you admit you were wrong, you lose, so you have to continue eating **** with a smile on your face until you die.
But did you actually read it? The “current law” they are comparing against is 2017 TCJA expiring at the end of 2025. The OBBB simply extends the current status and rates. That is why I worded my prior question like I did. The only actual new tax break for the wealth is the increase in SALT deduction. BTW both sides are playing the same game. GOP says not extending current law is a tax increase but then call this the largest cut ever. So which is it? What is the base line comparison? If not passing is an increase, that means current taxation is baseline. But if passing is a cut, the baseline used would be vs expiredTCJA. All gets back to policy vs law. Policy is to compare against today. Law compares against hypothetical future state. We live inactual real world of today. In that world, the top 1% will see almost no change in 2026 vs 2025. Reality is that other than no tax on tips, SS, OT and the SALT cap increase, the other changes are small tweaks to TCJA. But neither side is going to admit that, esp not Trump. He never has small wins. Everything must always be the greatest, biggest, fastest, whatever is his current bombastic hyperbole. Ofc. The Dems are as bad. Anything GOP esp. Trump does is the worst, most horrible, end of humanity, etc.
by TrollyWantACracker m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59034796#post59034796)
lol big brain guy right here laying a trap for the libtards. It is true that the BBB does not impact 2024 tax rates, only later years. Good news for you guys who want to go back in time 12 months to play some Pai Gow or what have you.
No. Ofc OBBB doesn’t change the past. But that was not the question. Let me rephrase. Assume same type and amount of income in 2024 and 2026, how does the top 1% return or marginal rate change? What NEW cut are they getting? So how does the future change vs 2024? Hint separately I already gave the answer.
you know, with rake being what it is, with these new Diaper Don mandates/laws... it might be stupid to play online. I don't know how this guy exists.
Hello! Good evening! Would someone explain how this will effect breakeven or losing poker players?
by McDonaldsFries m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036210#post59036210)
Hello! Good evening! Would someone explain how this will effect breakeven or losing poker players?
Obviously, it all depends on how large your total wins and losses are. If your total gross winnings represent a tiny fraction of your overall annual income, this will change your situation only nominally. I have to think this is the vast majority of losing players, but who knows. Easiest way to know for your own situation is to look at your own previous tax return(s). Take whatever you deducted for gambling losses (Schedule 1, Part 1). Now reduce that number to 90 percent of what it was, see what your new AGI is, then figure out how much it increased your tax liability would have been.
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59032394#post59032394)
Fyi, it was a Democrat who shoved this into the bill at the last second with intentions to sabotage Republicans...and yes I have definitive sources. It was a demonrat Senate Parliamentarian (a lawyer), Elizabeth MacDonough invoking the Byrd rule. She was appointed by Harry Reid. Congress asked for 99% in deductions and she only agreed to 90%. She hates Trump fwiw. And just play... See full post
I suggest you get better sources of information. The ones you are currently using are taking advantage of you and feeding you BS. To be fair, some people are not looking for factual information, they are looking to be told stuff that makes them feel good about their views. The fact that you bring emotions about Trump onto this leads be to believe that you possibly fall into this category. In that case, carry on using sources that take advantage of you but at least make you feel better about your views.
by Laaksolahti m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59031377#post59031377)
Anyone know why Draftkings stock didn't react to this news at all? You would think this is devastating bill for the company. Opened up a short position yesterday post market but not much to show for so far. I guess the market doesn't believe that this gambling section passes the way it is or the market is just slow to react which I doubt. Obviously hoping this disaster doesn't ... See full post
Probably because it also raises the reporting threshold from $600 to $2000.
Has there been any legit polls showing public support for this bill? I cannot see any reasonable person thinking this bill is great or "WINNING". Looks like it gives some gimicky tax break to a very narrow group of people and increases defecit spending by a couple trillion to go into the pockets of the defense industry. I would assume a lot of people wil be unboarding from the Trump train after this.
by Blind Burglar m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036440#post59036440)
Has there been any legit polls showing public support for this bill I cannot see any reasonable person thinking this bill is great or "WINNING". Looks like it gives some gimicky tax break to a very narrow group of people and increases defecit spending by a couple trillion to go into the pockets of the defense industry. I would assume a lot of people wil be unboarding from the T... See full post
The bulk of this bill was simply,y to extend the 2017TCJA. If those were not extended, everyone, except those paying nothing and even many of them, would see a large increase back to preTCJA conditions. So yes many are very much in favor of this bill. Not passing something to extend those earlier cuts would be a huge painful loss for most. If TCJA was so horrible, Biden had 4 yrs, some of which he had both houses of legislature, could have undone it. Why didn’t the Dems change it when they had total control? Simple doing so would have been extremely unpopular and would have cost them even more in legislature seats. They LOVE this past so the can run against it knowing it isn’t going away. I see your issue is probably you really don’t understand the whole bill. You are only thinking in terms of the sound bites. Neither side is giving a complete view of the bills entirety. Each focuses on the parts they can garner more support. If you can find a complete and fair representation of the entirety, you would see the many positives. You see additional negatives also. You might still not favor the bill but at least you would know the good, the bad, and the ugly. You are not going to get that from either party.
by JimL m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036250#post59036250)
I suggest you get better sources of information. The ones you are currently using are taking advantage of you and feeding you BS.To be fair, some people are not looking for factual information, they are looking to be told stuff that makes them feel good about their views. The fact that you bring emotions about Trump onto this leads be to believe that you possibly fall into thi... See full post
this 100%
by Fore m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036585#post59036585)
The bulk of this bill was simply,y to extend the 2017TCJA. If those were not extended, everyone, except those paying nothing and even many of them, would see a large increase back to preTCJA conditions.So yes many are very much in favor of this bill. Not passing something to extend those earlier cuts would be a huge painful loss for most.If TCJA was so horrible, Biden had 4 yrs... See full post
If by many you mean the minority you are right... Just do a quick google search on polls regarding this bill by what you posted here the results will surprise you...
by Liceista01 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036613#post59036613)
If by many you mean the minority you are right... Just do a quick google search on polls regarding this bill by what you posted here the results will surprise you...
Last respected national poll I saw, before it passed, showed low 50%s favored. And that is with all the negative lies. Saw one very small poll, basically a focus group where a moderate left and moderate right groups joined and presented a complete analysis of the bill and consequences of nothing passing. After presenting what appeared to be quite balanced analysis, none of the group liked everything but the vast majority of about 85% iirc preferred this bill vs passing nothing and letting TCJA expire and revert to 2016. I am not posting from ignorance. I have looked into details. There are many things in the bill, I don’t like but it is better than the do nothing alternative. Why didn’t Dems even try to offer an alternative? As fractured as GOP was, Dems likely could have pealed off enough GOP to pass a clean, no change extension of existing laws. Why do you think Trump insisted on one bill? He knows if a clean extension of current laws would make it almost impossible to pass the new pieces. At least if any fiscal responsibility was maintained. The bill is fiscally irresponsible but not for the revenue reductions, iow tax cuts, but on the spending side. Fed govt doesn’t have a revenue problem. Revs as % of GDP are within norms, low side but spending is dangerously out of control. Spendind is approaching WWII levels as % of GDP. IMO we need to reduce federal govt size and spending by 40%.
Thought a bit about the implications of this today and came up with the following, which shows how stupid this idea is. Let's say you make $60,000 in net profit ... If you made and lost the following amounts, you'd pay tax on: Won $500,000 and lost $440,000, you owe tax on $104,000. Won $100,000 and lost $40,000, you owe tax on $64,000. Won $60,000 and lost $0, you owe tax on $60,000 (obviously not possible in professional poker to lose $0) This makes no sense at all; no other business or profession is taxed this way and despite generating more action (which in turn generates more revenue and taxes paid by casinos) you are punished.
by Fore m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036677#post59036677)
Last respected national poll I saw, before it passed, showed low 50%s favored. And that is with all the negative lies.Saw one very small poll, basically a focus group where a moderate left and moderate right groups joined and presented a complete analysis of the bill and consequences of nothing passing.After presenting what appeared to be quite balanced analysis, none of the gr... See full post
Washington Post, Pew Research Centre, Fox News, Quinnipiac University, and the Kaiser Family Foundation, -19, -20, -21, -26, and -29 percent, respectively. Here comes the part that you say these are not respected pollsters.... But hey go ahead ... Im out...
Really quite frustrating as they continue to change the tax code in ways that punish those of us that honestly pay our taxes more and more. It already feels like lighting money on fire when I pay taxes on poker income, knowing full well that the odds I would ever get caught for not reporting are quite low. And of course, the tax code actively discourages people from filing by not just letting people report their net amount won for the year. Now, for being an upstanding citizen, I get taxed on phantom income.
by ten25 m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036737#post59036737)
Thought a bit about the implications of this today and came up with the following, which shows how stupid this idea is.Let's say you make $60,000 in net profit ...If you made and lost the following amounts, you'd pay tax on:Won $500,000 and lost $440,000, you owe tax on $104,000.Won $100,000 and lost $40,000, you owe tax on $64,000.Won $60,000 and lost $0, you owe tax on $60,00... See full post
Either they rushed this bill which i don't think they did... or they needed to balance this out by getting tax from somewhere else to implement no tax on tips/bonus/qbi. I think they will revert this mandate back from 90% -> 100% before the next 4 years, maybe Kalshi needs to offer this as a wager?
by 240sx m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036976#post59036976)
Either they rushed this bill which i don't think they did... or they needed to balance this out by getting tax from somewhere else to implement no tax on tips/bonus/qbi. I think they will revert this mandate back from 90% -> 100% before the next 4 years, maybe Kalshi needs to offer this as a wager?
It seems you're lacking context. Of course the bill was rushed. July 4 was chosen arbitrarily and they sprinted to make it happen. This sort of tax doesn't make money. It kills the economy of the industry by shrinking it until it dies. The Republican who added this to the bill is from Idaho where gambling is a crime. They want gambling outlawed because it's sinful in theory. In practice,this was probably written and paid for by Draftkings or someone similar in a short sighted attempt to nerf winners.
by TropicThunder m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037308#post59037308)
The Republican who added this to the bill is from Idaho where gambling is a crime. They want gambling outlawed because it's sinful in theory. In practice,this was probably written and paid for by Draftkings or someone similar in a short sighted attempt to nerf winners.
I think this sums up American politics. The Republican who hates gambling has the same goals/incentives as the company that offers gambling services to gambling addicts.
by jwd m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037342#post59037342)
I think this sums up American politics. The Republican who hates gambling has the same goals/incentives as the company that offers gambling services to gambling addicts.
2 + 2 = fish.
by TropicThunder m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037308#post59037308)
It seems you're lacking context. Of course the bill was rushed. July 4 was chosen arbitrarily and they sprinted to make it happen.This sort of tax doesn't make money. It kills the economy of the industry by shrinking it until it dies.The Republican who added this to the bill is from Idaho where gambling is a crime. They want gambling outlawed because it's sinful in theory. In p... See full post
DK already limits people to dust. Of course they don't know what the hell they're doing so they also limit a bunch of losers in the process. There is no reason for a betting site to support this. I'd also be surprised if within a few years everyone on these sites wasn't getting tax forms listing net winnings sessions and net losing sessions.
by hardinthepaint m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59036905#post59036905)
Really quite frustrating as they continue to change the tax code in ways that punish those of us that honestly pay our taxes more and more.
I think this is an important point. Congress probably doesn’t really care how this will affect recreational gamblers because they don’t really expect recreational gamblers to honestly and accurately report their gambling winnings anyway. I remember about 12-15 years ago back when I was a grad student, I had a reasonably successful year as a recreational poker player where I won about $15k. According to my records, this broke down as something like $38k in winnings and $23k in losses. And this is how I reported it on my federal income tax in April. About on month later, I get a letter from the IRS claiming I owed several thousand dollars more in taxes. It seems, absurdly, like they wanted to interpret my declared gambling losses as additional gambling winnings. That is, they were denying my loss deduction and actually claiming I had $61k in winnings! I was pretty alarmed by this and called the IRS to see if I could speak to someone about it. I was on hold for about 2 hours, but eventually was able to speak to an actual person with some authority over the returns. To her great credit, she listened to my explanation and spent just a few minutes looking over my filing. Her response was, “Oh wow, you actually did everything correctly! You don’t owe us anything. I apologize, I wish there were more people like you.” And she immediately closed the inquiry on the file. So in the end this was resolved just fine with only a minimum of hassle. But my biggest takeaway was that it seems like people at the IRS are generally shocked and confused by recreational gamblers who attempt to correctly file their winnings and losses.
Right. I also probably massively increase my audit risk by including gambling income and itemized losses.
by NickMPK m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037444#post59037444)
I think this is an important point.Congress probably doesn’t really care how this will affect recreational gamblers because they don’t really expect recreational gamblers to honestly and accurately report their gambling winnings anyway.I remember about 12-15 years ago back when I was a grad student, I had a reasonably successful year as a recreational poker player where I won a... See full post
what sucks is if you actually reported it correctly letter of the law you still paid taxes on phantom income since you lost the standard deduction. It might not have mattered if 15k was all of your income that year but if you made much more than that it would hurt you.
I'm surprised there isn't more pushback from the community about this. From what I can work out, this will be devastating for professional poker/sports betting. I'd also be sceptical that this will even generate the government more revenue as people will gamble on the black market and not report winnings etc. Dina Titus is coming up with an act to roll back the changes. I'd email your local representatives if you care about the issue.
Zero chance that legislation passes, don’t understand why people are promoting a minority party marker bill, even if it is now “bipartisan” when there’s not even a must-pass bill left to include it in. It’s almost like the more people discuss politics nowadays in every facet of life, the less they understand it. The current policy will probably hurt the tournament scam industry the most and make cash games juicier but that’s years out because the IRS will have to issue further guidance and probably go through a long rulemaking process. Anyone that wants to actually do something to prevent this should read up on the Corporate Transparency Act and utilize the playbook that got that law delayed.
I can only see this 90% rule having an affect if the sites are forced to report their customers wins to the IRS. If sports betting and poker sites start reporting your earnings directly to the IRS the entire industry would die overnight. You would think professional tournament players are most affected since they would write off all their tourny buy ins BUT anyone who files professionally is allowed to net their wins and doesn't have to itemize.
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by parisron m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037623#post59037623)
How can we show this bill to our reps? Currently there is a (D)Rep in Ca that is drafting a bill to ban sweepstakes sites with no replacement option. Here is a link to find your rep, again hopefully we can come together and stop these greedy pigs from ****ing with our lives and pockets. https://www.house.gov/representatives/fi... (https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative)
by BGnight m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037537#post59037537)
I can only see this 90% rule having an affect if the sites are forced to report their customers wins to the IRS. If sports betting and poker sites start reporting your earnings directly to the IRS the entire industry would die overnight. You would think professional tournament players are most affected since they would write off all their tourny buy ins BUT anyone who files pro... See full post
This actually applies to schedule C and schedule A filers, if i'm reading the new mandate correctly. If it only applied to "itemized gambling deductions" or schedule A that would be good for accountants since more people would want to file as a professional player on schedule C and try to get structuring with that. Talked with some people today about it, and some high stakes poker player will probably hire a specialized tax attorney and claim 100% instead of 90% then fight the mandate in the US Tax Court and that should get the ball rolling on this.
You don't pay taxes on tips over time and SS. Has to be made up somewhere. Jeez stop whining.
by Playlive m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037853#post59037853)
You don't pay taxes on tips over time and SS. Has to be made up somewhere. Jeez stop whining.
tips up to 25000 (overtime and ss didn't make it into the bill)
To be fair, given the parasitic nature of poker, maybe this is comeuppance for a community filled with degeneracy? Sometimes trolling is the only way to rightsize society. It's okay tho, private games were where the only actual money is made. Network better.
by Playlive m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037853#post59037853)
You don't pay taxes on tips over time and SS. Has to be made up somewhere. Jeez stop whining.
been here since 2007 and still isn't a critical enough thinker to figure out what's absolute bullshit and what isn't what's your excuse for being a ding bat because you were on the internet before social media made everyone 5x more gullible
by coordi m (https://www.twoplustwo.com/post?postId=59037854#post59037854)
tips up to 25000 (overtime and ss didn't make it into the bill)
Actually both did make it. Though not unlimited. Also due to the Byrd rule preventing any changes to SS, they got a little creative and just added a new special senior deduction. It is only $6000 or $12000 filing joint but due to how SS is taxed a large flat deduction would have exempted too much income. But in theory, and definitely for OT, both are in OBBBA.
